WEBVTT - The Rise and Fall of an Alleged Scam Boss

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>This January, Chinese state media treated viewers to a gripping

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<v Speaker 2>spectacle the arrest and public humiliation of a tycoon and

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<v Speaker 2>suspected master criminal Chan Ju.

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<v Speaker 1>If you watch the footage, you see that the gods

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<v Speaker 1>in the swat Gea have changed him into the prison

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<v Speaker 1>garb and they're placing the black bag over his head.

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<v Speaker 1>His arms are in shackles.

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<v Speaker 2>David Ramley is a Bloomberg investing reporter based in Singapore.

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<v Speaker 2>He watched the footage of Chun's extradition from Cambodia. A

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<v Speaker 2>team armed with automatic weapons leads Chun onto the plane, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Then it's later when he comes off the plane, they

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<v Speaker 1>take the bag off and his eyes are just staring

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<v Speaker 1>at the ground and clearly he realizes this is a

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<v Speaker 1>very different scenario to what he had expected.

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<v Speaker 2>Chen allegedly ran a criminal network in Cambodia for more

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<v Speaker 2>than a decade. His businesses were believed of used forced

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<v Speaker 2>labor and were said to have defrauded people all over

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<v Speaker 2>the world of billions of dollars. A lot of countries

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<v Speaker 2>had their eyes on him, including the US's Federal Bureau

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<v Speaker 2>of Investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>Different governments have different accusations regarding Chen and his organization.

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<v Speaker 1>Most of it revolves around money laundering. Some of the

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<v Speaker 1>accusations say what he was laundering with proceeds of crime,

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of that crime relates to a mix

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<v Speaker 1>of online gambling scam centers.

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<v Speaker 2>Chun's arrest and extradition was a dramatic reversal of fortune.

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<v Speaker 2>He had spent years living a billionaire's life in Singapore, London,

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<v Speaker 2>Taipei and Hong Kong. He cruised with politicians on his

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<v Speaker 2>super yacht and were chauffeured around in luxury cars. So

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<v Speaker 2>what change that led to this abrupt and sudden downfall.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was a mix of various factors. On

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<v Speaker 1>the one hand, you had rising pressure from the Americans.

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<v Speaker 1>They clearly sanctioned it, huge number and a huge array

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<v Speaker 1>of his organization. Chinese authorities also had been ramping up pressure,

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<v Speaker 1>and Cambodia basically had to act. All the things that

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<v Speaker 1>Chen had used to maintain his support for so long

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<v Speaker 1>within the Cambodian regime. All the things that had kept

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<v Speaker 1>him operating now coalesced into unstoppable pressure.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News I'm Wanha.

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<v Speaker 2>Every week we take you inside some of the world's

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<v Speaker 2>biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons, and

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<v Speaker 2>businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today in the

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<v Speaker 2>show The Rise and Fall of Chen Chu, the tycoon

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<v Speaker 2>who allegedly built an empire on scams, trafficking and political protection.

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<v Speaker 2>How he suspected criminal network earning tens of millions of

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<v Speaker 2>dollars a day suddenly crumbled and what led to a

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<v Speaker 2>swift downfall. By any account, the Rise of Chinju was

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<v Speaker 2>meteoric born in nineteen eighty seven in Fujin, a southern

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<v Speaker 2>coastal province of China. He got a start in business

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<v Speaker 2>running an internet cafe and gaming center.

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<v Speaker 1>When he started in Fujin, to the best of our

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge and according to his own family offices now deleted biography,

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<v Speaker 1>he was just another kid worked with his father in

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<v Speaker 1>the family business before eventually getting into internet cafes, and

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<v Speaker 1>at a very young age I think circa twenty four

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<v Speaker 1>he went off to Cambodia to seek a new fortune.

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<v Speaker 2>In twenty fourteen, Chen appears to found a way to

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<v Speaker 2>acquire Cambodian citizenship under foreign Investor program. Soon after, he

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<v Speaker 2>founded Prince real estate.

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<v Speaker 1>Well. At first his empire in Cambodia was probably relatively modest.

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<v Speaker 1>He was doing property development, he was doing certain buildings,

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<v Speaker 1>business parks, et cetera. But quickly he managed to flip

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<v Speaker 1>these into much larger enterprises. There was a downturn around

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<v Speaker 1>the early time that he was there, and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of Chinese entrepreneurs and investors actually left Cambodia because they

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<v Speaker 1>found it a little bit too risky. He doubled down,

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<v Speaker 1>and in doing so he really established himself as a

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<v Speaker 1>key player.

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<v Speaker 2>Prince real Estate quickly became a household name across Cambodia.

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<v Speaker 2>As Chen's wealth grew, it expanded into a full blown conglomerate.

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<v Speaker 1>He started building casinos, he scited building hotels, restaurants, He

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<v Speaker 1>even got into a wide variety of services. By the

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<v Speaker 1>end of his time, he had Prince Bank, which actually

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<v Speaker 1>had about a billion dollars in deposits from various clients.

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<v Speaker 2>And then at some point he's alleged to ventured into

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of illicit operations as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, so, a lot of the accusations from both the

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<v Speaker 1>NGOs as well as from researchers, journalists, the US agencies

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<v Speaker 1>such as the FBI Center on the dual use aspect

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<v Speaker 1>of his empire, and inside of those office buildings were

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<v Speaker 1>his operations, allegedly for running scams targeting citizens all over

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<v Speaker 1>the world out of billions and billions of dollars. That

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<v Speaker 1>money would often be funneled into the purchase of crypto

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<v Speaker 1>mining equipment, and then the crypto mining equipment was harvesting

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<v Speaker 1>huge amounts of crypto which was then ostensibly clean, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's one of the key ways that he allegedly launded money.

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<v Speaker 2>During those years, Prince Group built business campuses and poured

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<v Speaker 2>money into transforming a Cambodian port city called Seannoukville into

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<v Speaker 2>a gambling hotspot with numerous casinos and hotels. Investigators alleged

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<v Speaker 2>some of these sites became notorious scam hubs. One of

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<v Speaker 2>them was a place called Mingo Park.

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<v Speaker 1>Once upon a time, it was a farm of mangoes,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they turned it into a processing center for mangoes,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they basically built over it a series of

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<v Speaker 1>office buildings. There are many facilities filled with thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>workers who are actively scammed people all over the world,

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<v Speaker 1>according to various indictments and accusations.

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<v Speaker 2>The allegations against Chen say, workers from across the world

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<v Speaker 2>worked in shifts around the clock in these complexes to

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<v Speaker 2>scam overseas victims out of money. The scheme is known

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<v Speaker 2>as pig butchering. That's a reference to fattening pigs before slaughter.

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<v Speaker 1>These range the gamut from your average love interest scam,

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<v Speaker 1>where somebody claims to be a potential wife or a

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<v Speaker 1>potential husband for someone who's perhaps a little bit lonely,

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<v Speaker 1>to the classic Nigerian prince scam, where someone claims that

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<v Speaker 1>they have a huge fortune awaiting you if only you

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<v Speaker 1>jump through a series of hoops. And in other cases

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<v Speaker 1>there are investment scams where they claim to be very

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<v Speaker 1>successful in investment brokers who take your money and can

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<v Speaker 1>triple or could ruple your funds if you use their

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<v Speaker 1>platform to do so. And in all of these cases

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<v Speaker 1>allegedly it's simply a way of extracting money from people's

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<v Speaker 1>bank accounts.

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<v Speaker 2>And David, what was life like for these workers, many

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<v Speaker 2>of whom, as as you said, were likely trafficked. What

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<v Speaker 2>kind of conditions were they living and working under.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's not quite black and white. It's actually quite fascinating.

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<v Speaker 1>Many of the workers really were paid They were salaried

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<v Speaker 1>employees who knew what they were doing, but many others

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<v Speaker 1>were not. They had come under false pretenses. Some had

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<v Speaker 1>thought they were working normal it jobs. They were brought in,

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<v Speaker 1>they were taken to the room, and if they performed well,

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<v Speaker 1>they actually got paid. Sometimes they got bonuses. In other cases,

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<v Speaker 1>if they did not perform well, if they constantly or

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<v Speaker 1>even occasionally made mistakes, they were often punished. And the

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<v Speaker 1>indictment details some of these alleged punishments, beatings being meted out,

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<v Speaker 1>people being hunted down.

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<v Speaker 2>And how lucrative david were these scam centers well.

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<v Speaker 1>According to the indictment, one of the key lieutenants boasted

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<v Speaker 1>in text messages that the operation was generating in excess

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<v Speaker 1>of thirty US million dollars per day. That's only in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>And obviously you can't build a business empower like Chens

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<v Speaker 2>of this scale without connections. How well connected politically was

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<v Speaker 2>he in Cambodia.

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<v Speaker 1>Chen was incredibly well connected to the highest levels of

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<v Speaker 1>politics and power in Cambodia. There are a variety of

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<v Speaker 1>ways to illustrate this, but I'll give you one. Twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two, on a state visit to Cuba. Chen's right

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<v Speaker 1>there in videos that you can look up right now

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<v Speaker 1>on former Prime Minister Hunsen's personal official, verified Facebook page.

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<v Speaker 2>Chen used his growing wealth to build political influence and

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<v Speaker 2>styled himself as a philanthropist. He donated trucks to Cambodia's

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<v Speaker 2>National Police, handed out scholarships, and gave about two million

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<v Speaker 2>dollars to the Cambodian Red Cross, which is overseen by

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<v Speaker 2>Boon Rannie, the wife of longtime leader Hunsen. And when

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<v Speaker 2>Chun got wind of then Prime Minister Hunsen's fondness for

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<v Speaker 2>luxury watches, he leveraged that too and set up a

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<v Speaker 2>specialty watch making school.

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<v Speaker 1>Prince Horology was the watch school that he set up

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<v Speaker 1>and produced the watches that hun Sen handed out to

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<v Speaker 1>world leaders during the Asian Meeting. If you go to

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<v Speaker 1>the government collections of the US government, the Canadian government,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Australian government, you will find risk watches with

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<v Speaker 1>Prince Horology and his personal logo etched into the equipment. There.

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<v Speaker 2>By twenty twenty, Chen had reached the absolute pinnacle of

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<v Speaker 2>Cambodian society, and thanks to his high powered political connections,

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<v Speaker 2>Chen and his businesses were shielded and they flourished for

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<v Speaker 2>more than a decade.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, according to people we've spoken to, it was definitely

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<v Speaker 1>a fact that if you moved against Chen, it was

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<v Speaker 1>seen as you moving against Cambodia. And you have to

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<v Speaker 1>remember the geopolitics of the time. Everyone wanted Cambodia to

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<v Speaker 1>be on its side in this new Cold War scenario,

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<v Speaker 1>and none wanted to offend hun Sen, Hunmanette or the

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<v Speaker 1>senior politicians of Cambodia protected.

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<v Speaker 2>Chen allegedly built one of the biggest scam syndicates in

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<v Speaker 2>the world. The combination of money from princes, legitimate and

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<v Speaker 2>illicit businesses made Chen extremely rich, and he moved money

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<v Speaker 2>offshore and began spending it.

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<v Speaker 1>He led the life of a global billionaire in cities

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<v Speaker 1>all over the planet. He had properties in Hong Kong,

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<v Speaker 1>he had properties in Tokyo, he had properties in Singapore, London,

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<v Speaker 1>you name it. He had a fifty four meter super yacht,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was only one of several yachts that he

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<v Speaker 1>owned or controlled. And on those yachts he would host

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<v Speaker 1>highly elaborate parties. We're not talking normal parties that you

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<v Speaker 1>and I might attend. We're talking parties with free flowing

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<v Speaker 1>whiskey aged for many, many decades, costing thousands of dollars

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<v Speaker 1>per dram Cuban cigars of every vintage you can imagine.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, the fact that there was so much money

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<v Speaker 2>flowing from Prince Group did that raise any alarm at

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<v Speaker 2>any of the banks.

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<v Speaker 1>Certainly? What I found fascinating was that several banks actually

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<v Speaker 1>filed suspicious transaction reports against him, and they filed that

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<v Speaker 1>with various regulators, not just in Singapore, Bitalsho, in Taiwan, etc.

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<v Speaker 1>The fact that they themselves found him triggering so many

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<v Speaker 1>red flags that they shuttered his accounts shows that many

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<v Speaker 1>banks knew something was up. But because there was no

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<v Speaker 1>way for the banks to warn each other for quite

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<v Speaker 1>fair privacy reasons, and because the state was not empowered

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<v Speaker 1>in some ways to warn other banks when a separate

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<v Speaker 1>bank can close someone's accounts, he was simply able to

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<v Speaker 1>spin up new bank accounts at other institutions and continue

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<v Speaker 1>transferring money all over the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Chen could not be reached for comment. A spokesperson for

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<v Speaker 2>the Prince Companies, who asked to be unnamed for safety reasons,

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<v Speaker 2>denied the allegations from the US and UK against Chen,

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<v Speaker 2>and said the US Department of Justices, legal filings contained inconsistencies, falsehoods,

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<v Speaker 2>and egregious overreach. After the break, how international pressure from

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<v Speaker 2>across the globe triggered Chen's sudden downfall. Countries have ways

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<v Speaker 2>of recognizing those who've made exceptional contributions. In the US,

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<v Speaker 2>the president gives out Presidential Medals of Freedom. In the UK,

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<v Speaker 2>there's knighthoods. In Cambodia, one of the greatest honors that

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<v Speaker 2>a civilian can receive is the title of nik ogna,

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<v Speaker 2>equivalent to a lord, and in July twenty twenty, the

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<v Speaker 2>King bestowed that title on Chen Ju. It was a

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<v Speaker 2>remarkable achievement, but at the very point that Chen had

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<v Speaker 2>reached these dizzying heights, events were in play to bring

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<v Speaker 2>him down. Chen's alleged criminal enterprises benefited from the COVID

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen penceandemic. People spent more time online and the pool

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<v Speaker 2>of potential scam victims widened, and according to experts, Chen

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<v Speaker 2>and the Prince Group were just one part of a

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<v Speaker 2>broader network of scam operations across Cambodia and the region,

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<v Speaker 2>but as a number of victims likely millions worldwide, from

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<v Speaker 2>the US to China, began to grow, so did scrutiny.

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<v Speaker 2>Law enforcement agencies had already caught a scent of what

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<v Speaker 2>Chen was up to, and in twenty twenty Chinese authorities

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<v Speaker 2>set up a task force to investigate the Prince group

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<v Speaker 2>in Cambodia, but real international pressure didn't come until the

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<v Speaker 2>end of last year.

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<v Speaker 1>In October, the US and UK governments finally decided to

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<v Speaker 1>take action against him, and comprehensive action, I should say.

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<v Speaker 1>They sanctioned over one hundred different entities all over the world,

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<v Speaker 1>and many of these were controlling entities used to run

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<v Speaker 1>companies in other parts of the world. It was a

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<v Speaker 1>real shock to the system, especially for the Asian law

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<v Speaker 1>enforcement organizations. They actually had not been made aware that

0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.480
<v Speaker 1>these sanctions were about to hit, so it was only

0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:12.440
<v Speaker 1>after the sanctions were announced that governments in Hong Kong, Singapore,

0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Taiwan and elsewhere started to take some serious action and

0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 1>seized assets ranging from cause to jewelry to gold and property.

0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.160
<v Speaker 2>US federal prosecutors also revealed that they had seized nearly

0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:29.320
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and thirty thousand bitcoins Chun once controlled. That's

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 2>a record hall then worth fifteen billion dollars. This week,

0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.520
<v Speaker 2>lawyers for Chen filed emotion in a New York court

0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.200
<v Speaker 2>to dismiss the US government seizure of a hall of

0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.800
<v Speaker 2>bitcoin it's linked to him. The lawyers argued that many

0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.800
<v Speaker 2>of the allegations against Chen are provably and obviously false,

0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 2>and that accusations he oversaw scam compounds were non specific

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:57.520
<v Speaker 2>statements and background commentary about conditions in Cambodia. They raised

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 2>questions about the timeline if the cryptocurrency seizure, and said

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 2>the bitcoin couldn't possibly have been the proceeds of fraud

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:14.680
<v Speaker 2>or money laundering. Last year, tensions between Thailand and Cambodia

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.760
<v Speaker 2>escalated to deadly violence along the border, and in the

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 2>lead up to Thailand's elections, scam centers around the region

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.000
<v Speaker 2>became a hot button issue in the campaigns.

0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.840
<v Speaker 1>The Thai government had turned it into a war on

0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 1>the scams. They had actually actively bombarded scam centers on

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:38.320
<v Speaker 1>the border with Thailand. They were illustrating to the international

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 1>public the extent of the scam activity targeting citizens around

0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 1>the world.

0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.120
<v Speaker 2>At this point, Chun's operations had become too big and

0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:51.760
<v Speaker 2>his victims too numerous to ignore. President Trump himself even

0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.800
<v Speaker 2>got involved, forcing Cambodia to crack down on scam centers

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.360
<v Speaker 2>that target Americans. He explicitly made it a part of

0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 2>a deal for lower tariffs.

0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.680
<v Speaker 1>This was just a series of unfortunate for him events

0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.440
<v Speaker 1>that came together. It's hard for him to predict that

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.240
<v Speaker 1>the Americans would suddenly do such a thing. It's hard

0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.160
<v Speaker 1>for him to predict that the Ties would use scam

0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.760
<v Speaker 1>activities as a key tent pole for justifying their invasion

0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 1>of Cambodian alleged territory.

0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.400
<v Speaker 2>And while the Americans were honing in on Chen and

0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 2>his suspected scam centers, China was also making progress on

0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:32.120
<v Speaker 2>its investigation. For weeks, some of Chen's staff were expecting

0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Cambodia to reach a deal with China that would result

0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 2>in just a slap on the wrist for Chen. But

0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the end when it came, was sudden. In a late

0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:45.040
<v Speaker 2>night statement on January seventh, Cambodia announced that Chen and

0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 2>two others had been arrested and immediately extradited. Since his

0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.200
<v Speaker 2>arrest and extradition, what do we know of the operations

0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.360
<v Speaker 2>of Prince Group now with him out of the picture.

0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, we understand that the operations of Prince Group are

0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:06.440
<v Speaker 1>much depleted. Several organizations that were in full swinging operation

0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.679
<v Speaker 1>before he was arrested, such as Prince Bank, Prince Real Estate,

0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:15.399
<v Speaker 1>Prince Horology, the Watchmaking School, were all curtailed or shut down.

0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Now, these kinds of scam centers which are prevalent in

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 2>parts of Asia, they often depend on trafficed workers. Cambodia

0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.359
<v Speaker 2>shut down a number of these centers. What happens to

0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:28.560
<v Speaker 2>these workers now.

0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, what's happened since Chen's arrest has been remarkable. We've

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.800
<v Speaker 1>seen a lot of scam centers throughout Cambodia emptying out

0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.879
<v Speaker 1>streams of people from all over the world India, Indonesia, China,

0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.639
<v Speaker 1>other parts, queueing out in front of their country's embassies,

0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.760
<v Speaker 1>trying to get home, saying that they had escaped and

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.560
<v Speaker 1>wanting to get a ticket back to their place of birth.

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 1>But what we've also heard is that a lot of

0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.920
<v Speaker 1>centers are allegedly still in operation. They've simply quietened down.

0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.159
<v Speaker 1>According to one of the senior minute we've spoken to,

0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.480
<v Speaker 1>scam activity is down fifty percent in Cambodia. Now we

0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.600
<v Speaker 1>don't know exactly what that refers to, is that the

0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.640
<v Speaker 1>number of scammers in countries the number of scam operations

0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.359
<v Speaker 1>or the revenue lost. But it shows that even by

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.960
<v Speaker 1>the Cambodian government's own admission, there's still a substantial amount

0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.800
<v Speaker 1>of scam activity happening today right now.

0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.280
<v Speaker 2>At the end of the day, David says, scamming is

0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.360
<v Speaker 2>just too lucrative for criminals to resist, and these scammer

0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.639
<v Speaker 2>networks are like hydras. You cut off one head, but

0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:34.120
<v Speaker 2>others are ready to emerge and replace them.

0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.399
<v Speaker 1>I think the main thing standing in the way of

0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 1>shutting down all of these scam centers is greed. The

0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.200
<v Speaker 1>huge amount of money that they are able to generate

0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 1>is liable to create corruption in any market, let alone

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.040
<v Speaker 1>emerging markets in frontier markets. Basically, the only way this

0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.440
<v Speaker 1>gets shut down is if you have clean government willing

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.919
<v Speaker 1>to take drastic action against some of the most senior

0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.720
<v Speaker 1>members of your own country, both in business, politics, and

0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.040
<v Speaker 1>perhaps other spheres of influence. And that's a hard task.

0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:09.080
<v Speaker 1>I think one unanimous thing we've heard from every expert

0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.359
<v Speaker 1>is that this is not the end of scams either

0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.640
<v Speaker 1>in Southeast Asia of all the world. This industry will

0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.600
<v Speaker 1>continue and they will continue to be victims. Now how

0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:23.120
<v Speaker 1>successful those efforts are in shutting down these centers that

0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.840
<v Speaker 1>remains to be seen and coordinated action can make a

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:26.719
<v Speaker 1>real impact on that.

0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.240
<v Speaker 2>This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm

0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.639
<v Speaker 2>wanh To get more from The Big Take and unlimited

0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.560
<v Speaker 2>access to all of Bloomberg dot Com, subscribe today at

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg dot com slash podcast Offer. If you liked the episode,

0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.000
<v Speaker 2>make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take Asia

0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.920
<v Speaker 2>wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps people find

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.320
<v Speaker 2>the show. Thanks for listening, See you next time.