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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not come to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told your production of iHeart Radio. And it's time

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Speaker 1: for another feminist movie Friday. I think it could be

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Speaker 1: a feminist movie Wednesday. The schedule is shifting, lowsome things happening.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a Friday. Hey, either way, they may

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Speaker 1: not be listening on a Friday. So just a feminist

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Speaker 1: movie day, a feminist movie day, which should be every day,

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Speaker 1: should be every day true story. Yes, quick sugar, warning

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Speaker 1: before we get into this, they're going to be discussions

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Speaker 1: of sexual assault, abuse, and suicidal ideation. Nothing to in

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Speaker 1: depth because we're talking about Salmon Louis. So if you've

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Speaker 1: seen the movie, that's about the extent of it. But

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Speaker 1: just in case, also, I feel like I didn't give

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Speaker 1: enough emphasis to we're talking about the Alma and Louise. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Thelma and Louise, an iconic duo that we all pretty

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Speaker 1: much know, I would hope, unless maybe you were born

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Speaker 1: in the last twenty years and you've never seen this movie.

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Speaker 1: That maybe not I never heard of this movie, Go

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Speaker 1: watch it. Yes, So we are talking about Elma and

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Speaker 1: Louise and I actually I just came out very strong.

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Speaker 1: But I only saw this for the first time, I

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Speaker 1: think last year when we did our episodes episodes because

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Speaker 1: it was a two parter on Women in Revenge and

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Speaker 1: I really really enjoyed it. I definitely knew what it

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Speaker 1: was and had seen like parodies of the ending, but

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Speaker 1: I had never seen it. And Samantha, you were saying

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Speaker 1: before we recorded this, before we started recording, that you're

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Speaker 1: not sure you've ever seen it in full. I know,

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Speaker 1: and I say this to the people who are like,

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Speaker 1: you know what this is. But of course, again, like

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Speaker 1: I said, we know what this is. I have seen

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Speaker 1: pieces of this movie to the point that I had

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Speaker 1: thought i'd seen all of it, but then when I

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Speaker 1: rewatched and I was like, wait, I think I've never

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Speaker 1: really seen the complete movie in one sitting. So it

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Speaker 1: could have been that I watched half of it one time,

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Speaker 1: and then three months down the road, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: here it is. It's not because it used to be

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Speaker 1: on like cable network all the time. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's still happening because I don't have cable anymore.

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Speaker 1: We just stream everything. So but when I did have

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Speaker 1: cable network, T n T would often have it on

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Speaker 1: and so, and it doesn't have it on just once.

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Speaker 1: It's typically runs three or four times within the span

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Speaker 1: of periods like a month, because I guess they bought

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Speaker 1: the right, so they're gonna use it to the full extent.

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Speaker 1: So I would see pieces of it and I knew

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Speaker 1: each piece, But when I sat down and watched it

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Speaker 1: in order, I was like, wait, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I've ever fully watched this entire movie in one setting,

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Speaker 1: even to the fact that yes, I remember the Brad

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Speaker 1: Pitts scene, but I don't remember the fact that he

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Speaker 1: got caught, which yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like this

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Speaker 1: movie is so iconic that even though I hadn't seen it,

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Speaker 1: I felt like I had. And there were just certain

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Speaker 1: scenes that I just like Brad pitt jumping on the

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Speaker 1: bed shirt lists or you know, the car you're going

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Speaker 1: over this side, I just new. Yeah. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: for those who have hurt him today, except for like

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Speaker 1: if you've seen Burn after reading where he plays the

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Speaker 1: dizzy Jim guy, his voice is completely different from other movies,

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Speaker 1: like if you watch like fight Club, if you've watched

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Speaker 1: a river runs through it, which is, by the way,

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Speaker 1: is the first movie I ever saw him and beautiful man.

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Speaker 1: His voice is high pitched and very country accident to

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Speaker 1: play the con artists he plays in this movie, so

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Speaker 1: it may throw you off from what you know in

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Speaker 1: his young days. Yeah, and I guess a bit of

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Speaker 1: a spoiler before we get into this spoiler into what

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about. Not about the movie because

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Speaker 1: it's old enough that I'm sorry your time because a classic. Now,

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Speaker 1: it was interesting in very sweet casting story between Gina

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Speaker 1: Davis and him, where he was the one that flustered

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Speaker 1: or so much she kept messing up and at the

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Speaker 1: end they asked her like, who should be cast and

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Speaker 1: she was like, obviously the one I could not keep

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Speaker 1: straight around because he was flustering me so much. And also,

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Speaker 1: as we're going to get into in depth, um, when

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Speaker 1: this movie came out, there was a lot of discussion

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Speaker 1: around it's man hating essentially, and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have pointed out, well, what star came out of this movie?

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Speaker 1: Brad Pitt did right? So how much started his role

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Speaker 1: as being yeah, a babe, the ultimate movie star. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, he's the one again? To me, it was

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Speaker 1: a river runs through it and I will die and

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Speaker 1: fight anyone who says differently, because that was the first

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Speaker 1: time I ever saw Brad Pitt, and I remember thinking,

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Speaker 1: holy crap, who is that dude? And if he smiles

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Speaker 1: like that at me, ever, I will think, of course,

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Speaker 1: he's also the tortured boy in that movie Unattainable Tortured Boy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but okay, I know all about that. I know all

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Speaker 1: about that. Uh well, I haven't future future movie day

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Speaker 1: turn you and I uh yeah, so we actually happened

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Speaker 1: to be accidentally timely because this is the thirtieth anniversary

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Speaker 1: of this movie and a lot of articles are coming

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Speaker 1: out right now about it, so that's cool. We do

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Speaker 1: this a lot. We do this a lot where we're

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Speaker 1: right around like the big numbers of like, oh, look

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Speaker 1: at this classic. It's been a classic for this long.

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Speaker 1: And yes, again, like I said, for those who you know,

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Speaker 1: born twenty years ago, twenty five years ago, you probably

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Speaker 1: have no idea or we have vague idea of what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about because it is thirty years old and Annie,

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Speaker 1: it is definitely one of those that a lot of

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Speaker 1: women will be like, we're going to Delma and Louise this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I've used that reference before. What do you know,

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Speaker 1: not with you, yeah, because we haven't gotten into any trouble,

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Speaker 1: but definitely with co host and lady like Airline, we

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Speaker 1: talked about stuff like that, just because I could see

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Speaker 1: us being the ones getting in trouble. I feel like

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Speaker 1: you and I got in trouble that one time at

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Speaker 1: that food festival. We didn't caught, So yes, we were

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Speaker 1: mischievous without getting caught and ran away very quickly. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to tell that story though it's not. It's

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Speaker 1: really innocent everyone, please really, but it makes me feel

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Speaker 1: good that I was kind of mischievous because it's kind

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Speaker 1: of this whole idea of this movie, a little bit

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Speaker 1: being free, but you know, ethically not so much good things.

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Speaker 1: We know this. So let's begin with the plot with

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Speaker 1: Thelma and Louise, which was made in nine and is

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Speaker 1: a Ridley Scott film. We've talked about him before, we

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Speaker 1: mentioned him before in our series obviously, and it does

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Speaker 1: start the wonderful iconic Gina Davis, which we have talked

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Speaker 1: about before with the League of their Own, who plays Filma,

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Speaker 1: as well as Susan Surrandon, who plays Louise, because we

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Speaker 1: talked about her from the Witches of Eastwick episodes, another

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Speaker 1: iconic actress obviously still today, And of course there's a

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Speaker 1: shirtless Brad Pitt in one of his first big roles

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Speaker 1: in Yes. He became a heartthrob thanks to this. I

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Speaker 1: think he was on many teen magazines with that cowboy

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Speaker 1: hat shirtless. I remember this. Did I buy it? Know?

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Speaker 1: But yes I did because I didn't have the money.

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Speaker 1: But I did stare at it at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: lines while standing with my mother to buy groceries. It

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Speaker 1: was written by Calie Curry and is often described as Yes,

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Speaker 1: a female buddy road trip film, a comedy, a drama,

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Speaker 1: a feminist odyssey. I like that. Curry said she got

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Speaker 1: the idea in sort of a lightbulb moment where she

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Speaker 1: was thinking about women on a crime spree, and that

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Speaker 1: quote I saw in a flash where those women started

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Speaker 1: and where they ended up through a series of accidents.

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Speaker 1: They would go from being invisible to being too big

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Speaker 1: for the world to contain because they stopped cooperating with

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Speaker 1: things that were absolutely preposterous and just became themselves. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So apparently, okay, a couple of things. So Corey. This

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Speaker 1: was her first screenplay and she allegedly based it on

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Speaker 1: a friendship she had with a country music singer and

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Speaker 1: also just a bunch of women really connected to these

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Speaker 1: sort of in quote smaller instances of women being harassed

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Speaker 1: throughout the film, and they were like, yes, yes, I

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Speaker 1: connect with this. This needs to be made. And this

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Speaker 1: was after a history of sexism in Hollywood because apparently

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Speaker 1: in a casting session not for this movie, Corey was

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Speaker 1: asked to choose women with bigger breast and less close

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Speaker 1: and she, along with producers she often worked with Amanda Temple,

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Speaker 1: who was instrumental in this movie as well, would often

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Speaker 1: say you get what you set off for, which is

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Speaker 1: a line in the movie. So Temple was able to

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Speaker 1: contact really Scott to her friend then named Mimi Paul

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Speaker 1: who's now Mimi Geitlin or Mimi Holt Gitlin, who ran

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Speaker 1: Scott's production company, and they handed Getland the script more

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Speaker 1: to check that they weren't way off on it. After

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Speaker 1: several rejections, they were like, is this any good because

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Speaker 1: we think it's good, but people keep rejecting us, and

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Speaker 1: Getland connected again, yeah, a lot of the things in

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Speaker 1: the script. She was like, yes, I've been through this,

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Speaker 1: Yes this is good, and she convinced them they needed

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Speaker 1: to show it to Ridley Scott, with the idea that

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Speaker 1: he might produce it. However, when he read it, he

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Speaker 1: later said quote, I saw what was unique about it immediately.

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Speaker 1: Women tended to get parts of somebody's girlfriend. This was

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Speaker 1: about no one else but them. It had substance, It

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Speaker 1: had a voice, and had a great outcome which you

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Speaker 1: could never change. Their decision was courageous to carry on

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Speaker 1: the journey and not give right. And he also later

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Speaker 1: said I'd never had trouble letting women tell me what

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Speaker 1: to do. All the years I'd run my company, I'd

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Speaker 1: find that women were the best men for the job.

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Speaker 1: Scott Free l A was run by a woman. Scott

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Speaker 1: Free London was run by a woman. I could sit

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Speaker 1: around and analyze the foolishness of men, since men are

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Speaker 1: fundamentally the children in any relationship. So on, as kind

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Speaker 1: of it is shown in this movie. Oh yes, I

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Speaker 1: feel like we can talk about that forever. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I know we mentioned in our Alien episode, but really,

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Speaker 1: Scott has said he is a stout feminist because of

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Speaker 1: his mother. I do think that's a whole separate issue

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, lauding male feminists, great allies, advocates always,

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Speaker 1: but you know, like the levels I think are different,

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Speaker 1: in the judgments I think are different and the standards,

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Speaker 1: yes exactly, but I do think you know that that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: Scott did press Corey to add more humor to to

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Speaker 1: the script to a appealed to everyone in the audience,

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Speaker 1: including men, to quote make them eat crow. Under the

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Speaker 1: understanding they get name actresses and five thousand dollars for Corey.

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Speaker 1: They sold their rights to Scott and Gitlin also like

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Speaker 1: Jodie Foster and Michelle Phifer were the original names. Jodie

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Speaker 1: Foster did Sounds of the Las, Michelle Phifer did the

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Speaker 1: independent film, and she now says she cannot bear to

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Speaker 1: watch this movie because of the opportunity. But to be fair,

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Speaker 1: and I know we say this often, I just don't

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Speaker 1: know if if without Gina Davis, I mean her character,

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Speaker 1: because in overall, when we see Gina Davis's character, she

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Speaker 1: is the powerful, powerful one or the powerhouse one, and

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Speaker 1: typically all the movies that she's in, even in Beetlejuice,

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Speaker 1: even though she's kind of meek and mild, she's still

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Speaker 1: a powerhouse and trying to maintain her home obviously, so

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Speaker 1: I just I mean not that Michelle Phiffer's not, but

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Speaker 1: they also love bringing in Michelle Phiffer to be the demure,

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Speaker 1: giggly woman, which she is beyond that, and we know

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Speaker 1: that her acting skills are superb, but you do typically

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Speaker 1: see that for her role, which, by the way, it

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Speaker 1: would have been hilarious if it had been Michelle Peiffer

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Speaker 1: because she and the dude that plays Dna Davis's character

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Speaker 1: were in Greece too, which is the movie that she

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Speaker 1: hated the most. Yes, I still remember those movies. Well,

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Speaker 1: oh god, let's I've never seen Greece. Okay, Well, you

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Speaker 1: don't like musicals, I forget that, because you're like, I'm

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Speaker 1: willing well, musicals, I've told you I don't like so

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Speaker 1: Hamilton's is almost all music, there's no talking. My problem

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Speaker 1: is the surprise solemn. So I think I think, sorry,

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Speaker 1: that's Greece and these two is the I love it

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Speaker 1: because of this. I think, to me, it's like a

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Speaker 1: cult classic of how bad it is, but I love

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Speaker 1: it and it's worse. Well, I'm into it. I'm I

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Speaker 1: want to do it. I will get over this fear

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Speaker 1: of mine but also ce our past feminist movie Friday

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Speaker 1: on Batman returns about Michelle Peiffer's Catwoman, but also interesting

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Speaker 1: that Eugena Davis she wanted the role of Louise, and

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Speaker 1: she wanted it badly, and her agent was calling like

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Speaker 1: Realley Scott daily, like get her in and if the

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Speaker 1: timing just kept shifting because of director issues, they were

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Speaker 1: trying to find a director that was not really Scott,

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Speaker 1: and eventually there was like a timeline and Gina Davis

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Speaker 1: wrote this essay on like why should be Louise? And

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Speaker 1: then really Scott was like, so you wouldn't be Thelma,

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Speaker 1: and then Tina Davis like went in to hole essay

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Speaker 1: and she was like, no, actually I think I would

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Speaker 1: be a Felma doing the whole thing, and that she

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Speaker 1: signed an open ended contract and said I would do either.

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Speaker 1: So that's how she got the role, which I find

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Speaker 1: really interesting because she does amazing at it. And I

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Speaker 1: will say this is a very personal note. Gina Davis

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Speaker 1: has a really deep voice, and when I was young,

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Speaker 1: I was really ashamed of my voice because I thought

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Speaker 1: it was really masculine, really deep um. But she's an

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Speaker 1: actor that I always connected with because her voice is

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Speaker 1: so deep. Right, yeah, I'm the same way. I didn't

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Speaker 1: connect with her that way. I connected with her because

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Speaker 1: she wasn't feminine like she wasn't She wasn't like, she

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Speaker 1: wasn't dripping with being very girly. And I mean that

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Speaker 1: by like she was athletic. She was. She moved in

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Speaker 1: a different way, and she was tall and like had

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Speaker 1: a different manner of being without being seen overtly feminine.

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Speaker 1: And as much as I wanted to be feminine, I

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Speaker 1: really wasn't. I was not necessarily like the tomboy. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily the tomboy. But I definitely didn't hit the

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Speaker 1: like princess either, So it made me feel really awkward.

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Speaker 1: And she does that in a way like of being

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Speaker 1: the awkward girl without being either way, and it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like, ah, she is the middle groul that I've

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Speaker 1: been looking for, because you know, when you especially when

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Speaker 1: you see glamorized movies, you see that glamorise and or

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Speaker 1: the opposite where they're complete tomboys, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not either one of these. Who am I? Right? Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a good point. She kind of did that

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Speaker 1: in league of our own as well. So Ridley Scott

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Speaker 1: did approach several directors about this movie, and he later

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Speaker 1: accounted the story of like this guy saying listen, dude,

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Speaker 1: it's two bitches in a car. Uh, and Ridley Scott said,

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Speaker 1: why are they bitches? Because they have a voice, And

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Speaker 1: another guy said, oh, it's small, to which I said, no,

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Speaker 1: it's epic, I being Ridley Scott, and he started talking

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Speaker 1: about the prescenium, the landscape was the third big character

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Speaker 1: in the movie, and that the film is an odyssey,

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Speaker 1: and then he went on to say, like, I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize when I was interviewing these guys and I was

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Speaker 1: talking myself into it, so that being he talked himself

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Speaker 1: into directing. And this was after like Gitlin had said

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Speaker 1: you should do it, and a couple of people had

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Speaker 1: said you should do it. Corey was nervous about it

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Speaker 1: because she was like, oh, then it will become a

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Speaker 1: big film, and I don't know what that will mean.

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Speaker 1: But eventually they reached a point where they're both comfortable

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Speaker 1: and they were both like, Okay, let's do this right

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Speaker 1: because obviously it's not just he is known for the

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Speaker 1: big action films. At that point, in time, and so

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Speaker 1: this was a lot about heart um and typically I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have imagined at Lee Scott. Honestly, I forgot that

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Speaker 1: it was him would have directed this film either. So

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Speaker 1: the film follows best friends Delma and Louise, who decided

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Speaker 1: to take a weekend trip to a mountain cabin to

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Speaker 1: get away from their lives in small town Arkansas, where

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Speaker 1: Thelma is a housewife married to a controlling and a

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Speaker 1: loudly verbally abusive husband, and Louise is a waitress dating

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Speaker 1: a musician who is never around. Also the actor who

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Speaker 1: plays uh husband, her ex from all of the Quentin

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Speaker 1: Tarantino movies. She recommended him. She was like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I say that as if it's a positive, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about this a little more. But

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Speaker 1: his character wasn't like dislikable, like he seemed like the

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Speaker 1: typical you, but at the same time he was still

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Speaker 1: one of the more loyal of the Yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts about that, and we're

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Speaker 1: definitely gonna get into it. Okay. So Thelma and Louise

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Speaker 1: stop at a bar on their way to their destination,

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Speaker 1: where Thelma, who's like so into this idea and like,

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Speaker 1: I need a vacation, I want to have fun. She

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Speaker 1: dances with a very flirtish, strange journeyed Harlan, and later

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Speaker 1: in the parking lot, Harlan kisses her and tries to

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Speaker 1: take off her clothes without her consent, and when she resists,

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Speaker 1: he gets violent and attempts to rape her. Louise arrives

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Speaker 1: with a gun and turns to shoot him, and he

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Speaker 1: he reluctantly releases Thelma, but as they're walking away, he

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Speaker 1: salts both of them says he should have raped Filma. Furious,

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Speaker 1: Luise shoots and kills Harlan, and the pair flee the scene. Yes. Also,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I have a lot of behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes factory this one and like it. Yeah, So Susan's

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Speaker 1: ran in made it clear, and it was clear in

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Speaker 1: the script as well that it was a very split

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Speaker 1: second decision on her character's part, that it was like

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Speaker 1: not premeditated, but he just called her this and it

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Speaker 1: was like the last thing and it was just like

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Speaker 1: final straw snapped, which I find really interested. And the

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Speaker 1: acting is amazing in this movie, of course. Yeah. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So the pair go to a motel and they discussed

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Speaker 1: what they should do about the situation um and they

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Speaker 1: discussed it on the car ride. On the way, Filma

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Speaker 1: wants to go to police, but Louise disagrees, thinking no

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Speaker 1: one will believe that the man tried to rape Thelma.

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Speaker 1: No one will believe them, especially after bar patrons saw

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Speaker 1: Filma dancing and drinking with Harlan with this man, and

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Speaker 1: that they would be charged with murder. Eventually, they decided

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Speaker 1: to go to Mexico, or at least to Louise decides

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Speaker 1: to go to Mexico, but she insists they do it

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Speaker 1: without passing through Texas, So while on their way, they

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Speaker 1: meet handsome and often chirtless drifter j D played by

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Speaker 1: Brad Pitt, and Thelma quickly becomes smitten with him and

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Speaker 1: persuades and begs Louise to allow him to ride with

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Speaker 1: them for a little while. Louise contacts her boyfriend to

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Speaker 1: get them to transfer her life savings to her, but

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Speaker 1: he surprises her by showing up and he proposes, which

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Speaker 1: she refuses because it's obvious that he's just scared that

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Speaker 1: he's going to lose her right so therefore this is

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Speaker 1: what he's doing. The Alma sleeps with j D and

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Speaker 1: finds out he's a thief who is breaking parole. When

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Speaker 1: the pair awake the following morning, oh yeah, they realized

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Speaker 1: that j D, who went to a whole thing about

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Speaker 1: how he liked to raw people, has stolen all of

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Speaker 1: Louise his savings and is nowhere to be found, leaving

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Speaker 1: Louise devastated and Thelma incredibly guilty. So she robs a

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Speaker 1: convenient store. With what she learned from j D. She

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Speaker 1: had to get out play by play on what he did,

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Speaker 1: and she decided I'm going to do this. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean that's so it's such a sweet and sad scene,

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Speaker 1: especially if you know what happens, because she's so happy

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Speaker 1: because she got like good sex for the first time.

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Speaker 1: But then you're like, wait, he definitely robbed you. So

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Speaker 1: the FBI closes in on them, following eyewitness accounts of

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Speaker 1: their vehicle. Uh. They questioned the newly apprehended j D.

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Speaker 1: They questioned Louise's boyfriend. They tapped the line of Thelma's husband, who,

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Speaker 1: hilariously and sadly enough to me, he's like, oh, she

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Speaker 1: hangs up, and it's like, now there'd be a tap

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Speaker 1: because she knows right, he wouldn't mean that. Nister, the

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Speaker 1: head investigator played by Harvey Keitel, seems to understand their actions,

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Speaker 1: especially given Louise's past um and it's kind kind of implied.

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Speaker 1: I guess the story shifts, but it's kind of implied

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Speaker 1: at first that like Louise was the mastermind buying the

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Speaker 1: whole thing, and then it's like, wait, Thelma is the

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Speaker 1: one that stood up this place, which is important to

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Speaker 1: to the alternate ending we're gonna discuss later, but he is.

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Speaker 1: Harvey kite Tail's character is unsuccessful and condensing them to

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Speaker 1: turn themselves in. So Thelma tells Louise that she can

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Speaker 1: turn herself in if if Louise wants to go back,

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Speaker 1: since she has Jimmy, her boyfriend, waiting for her. But

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Speaker 1: that Thelma herself refuses to go back to her husband.

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Speaker 1: She refuses to go back to her old life. Louise

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Speaker 1: argues that they are in this together. They're gonna do

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Speaker 1: this together. Later, Thelma discusses what happened at the bar

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Speaker 1: that set off the whole thing and asked if Louise's

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Speaker 1: response to it had to do with what happened in

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Speaker 1: Texas and Louisa was angry and demands that Thelma never

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Speaker 1: talked about again what she had kind of already done previously.

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Speaker 1: She's just been very close, close lipped about this whole thing, right,

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Speaker 1: I do want to talk about with the one scene

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Speaker 1: when the waitress is giving her statement and just absolutely like, no,

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Speaker 1: those ladies had nothing to do with it, and they're

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Speaker 1: too sweet, they're too nice. One top me really well,

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Speaker 1: there's no way that they were responsible, and just about

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Speaker 1: how this man's reputation was that he was sort of

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Speaker 1: an and deserved to die essentially, which puts up a

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Speaker 1: hole like, okay, this is kind of telling to Harvey

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Speaker 1: Citeil's characters, like Okay, yeah, there's something amiss, something had

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Speaker 1: to have happened. Here we go. And then of course

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Speaker 1: when the hair pulled over for speeding, which is one

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Speaker 1: of the funnier things. I don't know what you thought,

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Speaker 1: they quickly realized they'll be caught. So Thelma, after the

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Speaker 1: police officer tries to get Louise and identify her, pulls

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Speaker 1: a gun on the trooper and forces him into the

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Speaker 1: trunk of the police car, which again she is doing

401
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Speaker 1: some things like you're like, well, they am she's gotten

402
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 1: into into our own demanding and anything like turn off

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Speaker 1: the radio, shoot the radio, making little air holes for

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Speaker 1: the police officers. She just being nice. I stuck him

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Speaker 1: in the dawn trunk. There you go, And as they

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Speaker 1: continue their drive to Mexico, hilarious, a truck driver makes

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Speaker 1: rude sexual gestures of them, and they forced him to

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Speaker 1: pull over after many interact yeah and him being a dick,

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Speaker 1: demanding an apology from him at gunpoint, which he decides

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Speaker 1: that he's going to be a real dick and just

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Speaker 1: continue on, even though they start asking which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: we've done this recently, just for people to get empathy about,

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Speaker 1: like think about your mother, think about your your wife,

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Speaker 1: would you want this to happen to the people you love?

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Speaker 1: And the fact that we have to even or anyone

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Speaker 1: has to even suggest that for them to think about

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Speaker 1: another woman as a human right. But of course he didn't.

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Speaker 1: So they used the guy to blow up his entire

419
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Speaker 1: rig and leave him stranded and take us at which

420
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: is hilarious, yes, right there, but funny, it's satisfying. So

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Speaker 1: the police soon catch up with them as they're passing

422
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Speaker 1: near the edge of the Grand Canyon and Thelma and

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Speaker 1: Louise decide that, in the face of spending their lives

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Speaker 1: in prison, that they keep going. They almost suggests they

425
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 1: keep going. Louise make sure that you know she's totally

426
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 1: sure of this decision, and it kiss whole hands. Louise

427
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: pushes down the accelerator and they fly over the edge,

428
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: and the image freeze frames their car hovering in the

429
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: air over the cliff. It's one of the most famous,

430
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: iconic and parodied endings of all time. Yes, yes, but

431
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: apparently in the original ending, at the last minute, Louise

432
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: pushed Thelma out of the car, but Surrandon and uh

433
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: Davis fought against it, and ultimately they got their way.

434
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: Gina Davis would later say, I earn to my death,

435
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: which is interesting, and also, um, I read right before

436
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: coming in to record this that the scene where Thelma

437
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: has sex with Brad Pitt j D. She was supposed

438
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: to be naked and they were supposed to be like,

439
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: you know, boobs, and and Geene Davis was like, I

440
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: don't see the point, and she went to Susan Surrandon

441
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: about it, and Susan Surrandon like marched in toward Lee

442
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: Scott and said no, and so they didn't put it

443
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: in its women supporting women, right, But I wanted to

444
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: because as I was researching this, I just found so

445
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: many really funny summaries of this movie. So I wanted

446
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: to know, Samantha, if you had to t LDR this,

447
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: if you had to summarize this movie, how would you

448
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: describe it? Oh, two best friends pushed over the edge,

449
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: get the revenge, and have their happy ending. Clumb blank.

450
00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. Thank you love that. I don't think I

451
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: can do better than that. It's essentially, Yeah, two best

452
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 1: friends discover the beauty of their friendship overall else and

453
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: choose it overall else and write or die, Write or Die.

454
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: This is the epitome of Ride or Die. This is

455
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: the beginning of Ride or Die. I feel like, you know,

456
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: I need to look into it. But yeah, I think

457
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: this might be But Okay, As we mentioned, there was

458
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: a lot of controversy when this movie first came out,

459
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: and especially around people saying that it portrayed men in

460
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: a negative light. Yeah, there were all kinds of headlines

461
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 1: like is violence what feminism is all about? This is

462
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: toxic feminism, people calling it a violent, disturbing movie that

463
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: it was degrading to men, all kinds of things like that.

464
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: That being said, plenty of people praised it, a lot

465
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: of these people and women, but some men. Some have

466
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: rightly pointed out that there were plenty of good male

467
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: characters in their film, but that they weren't the main characters,

468
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: and we're defined through their relationships with Delma and Luise,

469
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 1: with women, like how most women are defined by men

470
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: and almost all movies ever. Yeah, or in the words

471
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: of critic Janet Maslin after the film's release, many detractors

472
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: were annoyed by quote something as simple as it is powerful,

473
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: the fact that the men in this story don't really matter,

474
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: which again is how women characters are it almost you know,

475
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: a majority of our movies, right, And I found this

476
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: quote interesting. Corey said in two thousand one, bad guys

477
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: get killed in every damn movie that gets made. That

478
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: guy was the bad guy and he got killed. It

479
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: was only because a woman did it that there was

480
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: any controversy at all. And I thought that was really

481
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: interesting because I think she's onto thing there. I was

482
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: thinking about how many movies we have about men getting

483
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: revenge and how we're like, yeah, I get it, And

484
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: then in this movie, apparently a huge backlash of like,

485
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: look at these violent women, they hate men. Oh my god,

486
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be dainty and kind and just walk away,

487
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: So from Rebecca Nicholson over at The Guardian. In May

488
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: this year, when the film was released, in unleashed a

489
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: wave of controversy that seemed to take its cast and

490
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: crew by surprise. Gina Davis and Susan Sarandon appeared on

491
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: the cover of Time magazine under the cover line quote,

492
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: why Filma and Louise strikes a nerve. The particular nerve

493
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,959
Speaker 1: that it struck was much debated. Was it, as some

494
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: critics felt, a thoughtlessly violent movie that saw two women

495
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: committing terrible crimes in the name of empowerment. And by

496
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: the way, where are these terrible crimes? Because they didn't

497
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: murder one person. They did put a person in a trunk.

498
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: Everything else even like good yeah, okay, yeah, oh. I

499
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: got a lot of thoughts about this. I got a

500
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: lot of thoughts about it. Keeping on with the article,

501
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: were they quote acting like men under the cover of

502
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: feminism or was it, in fact mss andry unfair to

503
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: men because it portrayed all of its male characters as awful.

504
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: Never mind that they're not all awful. Is, by the way,

505
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: a pre hashtag not all men? Yes, we know that

506
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: one so well. Were they role models? Was it a

507
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: feminist parable? Was that ending one of the few that

508
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: has truly earned the overused adjective iconic perfect or a

509
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: cop out? In the Last Journey at two thousand, documentary

510
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: about the making of Filma, and Louise Surrandon addressed all

511
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: the noise and said, films at their best, that should

512
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: challenge your perspective. This is film at its best. Yeah,

513
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: and that's that's a great quote. And interestingly, because a

514
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: lot of people are writing about this movie right now,

515
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: because it's the thirtieth anniversary, and some people who have

516
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: said this film wouldn't even get made today, and that

517
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: women in fact have been losing ground when it comes

518
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: to representation and entertainment, and we've got over those numbers

519
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: on this show. So a lot of articles use those

520
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: numbers to be like, yeah, look at how we've lost

521
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: ground in fact, or how they're going down. But despite

522
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: the controversy, the film was successful both commercially and critically.

523
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: It was nominated for six Academy Awards. I believe it's

524
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: the last movie to have to actresses nominated for the

525
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: Best Actress Role like the main actress role from One

526
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: Movie with Gina Davis and Susan Strandon, and it won

527
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: for Best Original Screenplay. And when it won, when Corey

528
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: accepted the Oscar, she said, for everybody that wanted to

529
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: see a happy ending for Thelma and Louise, this is it.

530
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: And yeah, just as her reminder, she used, one of

531
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: the only few women who has won this award. Right,

532
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: and the film had obviously a huge cultural impact, influencing

533
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: feminist thought and other media from recent movies to Taylor

534
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: Swift to even The Simpsons. In twenty sixteen, the U. S.

535
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: Library of Congress chose to preserve it in the National

536
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: Film Registry. Yes, and Yes. After this movie came out,

537
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: there were all these predictions that it was the catalyst

538
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: for so many great movies about women, And don't forget,

539
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: which was the year after this movie came out was

540
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: predicted to be the Year of the Woman, but that

541
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: didn't happen. Um for the movies twentieth anniversary in Rainow Lifts,

542
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: it's called it the quote last great film about women

543
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: and for the thirtieth anniversary, Gina Davis said, I'm thinking,

544
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: hot dog, let's sit back and wait for all this

545
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: magic change to happen. We're still waiting. It really did

546
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: not happen. It seems like every five years or so,

547
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: there's another movie starting women that's a huge hit. People say, well, now,

548
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: certainly everything is going to change, and it really hasn't.

549
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: And Gina Davis started an organization called the Gina Davis

550
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: Institute on Gender and Media, all about representation and media

551
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: in part because of this, and she's spoken about how

552
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: she felt about this after this movie came out, where like, oh,

553
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: I really need to think about how this role is

554
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: perceived and what roles I'm taking. Susan Sarandon said, I

555
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: completely underestimated that we were backing into territory held by white,

556
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: heterosexual males. They got offended and accused us of glorifying

557
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: murder and suicide and all kinds of things. It didn't

558
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: seem like a big deal. It seems like it was

559
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: unusual that there would be a woman that you could

560
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: be friends with in a film, which we've talked about

561
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: a lot, right, right, and even for a split second,

562
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: you still had the stereotype of women pinned against women,

563
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: and it could have taken a really bad turn, Like

564
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: you could take the script and made this horribly done.

565
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: And I think part of that would have been having

566
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: even though it's sweet, like having one being the innocent

567
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: one and the other one being, you know, the bad one,

568
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: as it kind of was trying to go down that route,

569
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: and they did a better job. No, we're in this

570
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: together and the stories and of course we don't want

571
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: to highlight violence, nor do we want to highlight suicide

572
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: in any way. But what this movie did is a

573
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: completely different conversation about how these women were pushed over

574
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: the edge by everyday occurrences that are so familiar by

575
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: all of us, any person who has grown up female.

576
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: We know these experiences. The truck driver, Yeah, I remember,

577
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: I had those experiences. Are trying to drive away real

578
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: quickly because of those things they were insinuating towards me

579
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: on the freaking road, versus a man thinking buying you

580
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: a drink gives me entitlement to do this and that

581
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: and this, and like, we know these people, we've seen

582
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: these people. Yeah, oh absolutely, And and that's one of

583
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: the interesting things I find about this movie. Which a

584
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: lot of people have written about is like you know

585
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: it's from and how can we be watching it in

586
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 1: and we're still like, oh gosh, he has I connect

587
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: to all of this. But also there is a really

588
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: interesting dynamic in my opinion, and we're going to talk

589
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: about this in a minute more, but where there's kind

590
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: of this ditzy Thelma who is not as world wise

591
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: and kind of like, yeah, I just want to have fun.

592
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go do what I want to do.

593
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,919
Speaker 1: And then there's Theuise who is much more like I've

594
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: seen seen something and trying to guide them through this

595
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: journey of you know, getting away from prison. But then

596
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 1: like they make a switch, They make a really interesting

597
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: I don't know switch is the right word, but they

598
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: take care of each other, Like Belma realizes that she

599
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: needs to do something because Louise is so upset, so

600
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: she is like, Okay, I will take control of the situation,

601
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: whereas Louisa they control up until that point, which to

602
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: your point, I think it could have very much been

603
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: a kind of Caddy women against each other movie, but

604
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: it is very much like they fight, but then they

605
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: help each other, like they support each other and they

606
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: stick with each other. H Yeah. And one of the

607
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: interesting quotes I read, and I think we've talked about

608
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: this a lot, is I just read this quote where

609
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: together they become a quote third thing where there's Thelma,

610
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: there's Louise, but together they become something else where they're

611
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: kind of transcending. They're you know, like Filmo's life being

612
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: knowing her husband's cheating on her and it's so disrespectful

613
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: to her and Louise's life of like, you know, I'm

614
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: in this waitress mode, but I could be doing all

615
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: these other things and they come together, and I mean

616
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: the Almos says it all all kinds of times in

617
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: the movie where she's like, I think I'm cut out

618
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: for the right I made for this, And I just

619
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: connected with that so much because I felt that with people.

620
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: I felt that with you, where I was like right

621
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: together with this woman, with this friend, I feel like

622
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: I'm coming into my own Like they're helping me realize

623
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: my potential and what I can do right. I mean,

624
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: there's definitely where the hype woman, the hype person behind

625
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: you who encourages you to be the better. Of course

626
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: this is not the better per se, but hopefully like

627
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: you have those people in your background being able to

628
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: encourage you to know that you can stand on your

629
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: own and or you can step forward into this world

630
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: that's so uncertain to you, and or standing up for

631
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 1: yourself in general. Like that's that whole level of having

632
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: that person in your life that sees when you need

633
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: to be pushed, and that sees when you need to

634
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: be supported, like there's those those things, or just when

635
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: you need to be there. And yeah, I don't think

636
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: that's talked about enough because for the longest time, especially

637
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: in the nineties, when we looked at like the Heathers,

638
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: and that was not the context of the movies. It

639
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: was all like all on your own, get what you can,

640
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: move on, and you know, and this was not it.

641
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: This is not that. This was a I was protecting you,

642
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: I was defending you. Now we've gone to this point

643
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: and the truth of the matter is, like we know

644
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,479
Speaker 1: women are not believed, and in the nineties even less so.

645
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: And just for the mere sake of saying I took

646
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: a drink and went outside with him voluntarily meant enough

647
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: that you're slutt and you're guilty, and which is exactly

648
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 1: that indication and understanding that you can't trust the system

649
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: because they don't believe women, so in itself, like, yeah,

650
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happens. And then when you push someone

651
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: to the edge, what happens? And then if you have

652
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: someone hopefully they will have your back. And what does

653
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: that look like? Yeah, it's hard. You're like, this is

654
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, the outcome ultimate outcome, mind have not been

655
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: great thing, but you feel like the big connected so

656
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: strongly with each other and they stuff with each other.

657
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: Something about it is very moving. I mean, Jane David's

658
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: character Elma does say I've had the best time, and

659
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: I feel like, for the first time I'm living. Yeah,

660
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: and I think this is I thought about talking about

661
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: this in this episode. I think it's too big of

662
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: a topic for now, but it kind of goes back

663
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 1: to our platonic marriage thing. But I was just kind

664
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 1: of thinking about, why is this idea in my friend

665
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: group at least of a compound of women essentially resonates

666
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: so much, And it feels like when I'm watching that

667
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: movie this is kind of it is like, you know,

668
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: hashtag not all men, but essentially we're still living in

669
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: a patriarchal system where I know if I were to marry,

670
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: even if it was someone I loved, I don't trust

671
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: myself because I've been raised in this system not to

672
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: not grow resentful and take on more burden than I

673
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 1: should take on, because I feel like that's what's expected

674
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: of me and the dude and relationship has been raised

675
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: in the same patriarchal system and has different expectations. And

676
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: that's not saying like it's either of our faults necessarily,

677
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: but that's what we were raised in, right. And communication

678
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 1: is great, but I do think at a certain point

679
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: it's hard to communicate your own experience somebody who hasn't

680
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: experienced it. Um So when I watched it, I was like,

681
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: this is the vibe I'm talking about the compound, And yeah,

682
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 1: I do think I like that there's moments where they're

683
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: angry with each other and frustrated with each other, but

684
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: they kind of give each other's space and they don't

685
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: even if there are moments where they kind of like

686
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: have barbs at each other, they don't really blame each

687
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: other ultimately, like they stick with each other. And I

688
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: think that's a that's a really beautiful representation of it,

689
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: because it's hard not to even if you're the victim

690
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: or the survivor not to have those thoughts of like

691
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: blame and I like that they have those, but then

692
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: kind of give space and then or like no, but

693
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: I was wrong, wasn't you. We're sticking together, and then

694
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: I do like that the Yeah, there's this real shift

695
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: in their characters, especially Thelma, I think, who goes from

696
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: being what she calls like sedate or Louise calls to

697
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: date kind of what you settled for. Just the quote

698
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: to really be right, I'm gonna rob this place. I'm

699
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: gonna stick this cup in the back of the trunk.

700
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: I made it, I mad ite to win it. I'm

701
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: sticking with you. And she says a lot of lines

702
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: that are really interesting like um, I can't go back,

703
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: and I feel awake all these things and in this

704
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: was filmed in Utah, which I just say because I

705
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: did a similar road trip with my friend through Utah

706
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: and it was it was equally like really rewarding. I

707
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 1: wasn't on the run from the wall that we did

708
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: get speeding. Um, but yeah, it's just like a really

709
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: beautiful experienced to be in in that that space with

710
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: for me another just really close female friends and then

711
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: I did want to point out there are those moments

712
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: like the Louise throwing away her lipstick, trading her jewelry

713
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 1: for a straw hat, like these items of femininity that

714
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: are if you're living a life on the run or

715
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: ultimately worthless or kind of like what good does this

716
00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: do me? Right? Yeah? And also interestingly the two mains

717
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: with thirty five and forty five when they are cast, which,

718
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: as we know in Hollywood, you know, thirty two is

719
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: like the end of your career as a woman that

720
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: is changing, but still pretty amazing that this happened. And

721
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: about the ending, Corey said to me, the ending was symbolic,

722
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: not literal. We did everything possible to make sure you

723
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: didn't see a literal death. That you didn't see the

724
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 1: car land, you didn't see a big puff of smoke

725
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: come up out of the canyon. You were left with

726
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: the image of them flying. They flew away out of

727
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: this world and into the mass unconscious women who are

728
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: completely free from all the shackles that restrained them have

729
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: no place in this world. The world is not big

730
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: enough to support them. I loved that ending, and I

731
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 1: loved the imagery. After all they went through I didn't

732
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: want anybody to be able to touch them. This could

733
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: be like the Grease ending which they just flew off

734
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: in the car for no damn reason. It was like,

735
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: what's happening really? Which came first Greece? That was in

736
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: the eighties, right, No seventies? Oh no, you got me

737
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: thinking it was seventies. I think you're thin, you're it's

738
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: before this. Yeah, but it has nothing to do I

739
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: don't have no doubt. This has nothing anything to do

740
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: with Greece. I like that Grease keeps coming up. It

741
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: was in my head. I was like, because, well, forever

742
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: confused as you can tell as to why at an

743
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: ending of a musical which they were just supposed to

744
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: drive off that they had to fly the car had

745
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: to fly to fly, gotta fly. Oh yeah, that's a

746
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: that's a really interesting I thought we're gonna talk about

747
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: that more in a minute of like this kind of

748
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 1: symbolic ending, But we definitely have to talk about trauma,

749
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: because trauma is throughout this movie. And one thing I

750
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: found ound interesting is that generally, not always, but the

751
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: men are continuously screwing the women over in this movie.

752
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons I found This really interesting

753
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 1: is because there were a lot of male critics who said,

754
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 1: especially when it came out, um, that the women pretty

755
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: much deserved what happened to them because of the terrible

756
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: decisions they made throughout the movie, which is kind of

757
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: the point. It's like they missed the point, which is, yeah,

758
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: just more evidence of blaming women, of turning around like, oh,

759
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: she was almost raped, it was her fault because what

760
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: she was doing. Oh she was drobbed, it was her

761
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: fault because of what she was doing. And some of

762
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: even pointed out, you know, even good guy Harvey Keitel

763
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to realize the world we live in, Like

764
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: he's very I want to help you, and that's great

765
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. But Susan Surrandon has been through it,

766
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: like it's implied she's been through this and she knows

767
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: what it looks like and she realizes what's going to

768
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: happen to them if they get caught, And he doesn't,

769
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: right right, I think he's very much aware, but he

770
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: thinks the awful ending is death like that, he thinks

771
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: that's the worst ending, And so I get that, like

772
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: that maybe the endpoint, but I think into that tell

773
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: like to him, death is the ultimate bad ending. He

774
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: wants to save any of that because even in the

775
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: movie he actually does say as like they bring out

776
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: all the guns and hunt them down and have like

777
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: all like ready to go. He was like, stop, They've

778
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: been screwed over so many times. And he actually says

779
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: that as in like, this is one more thing. You're

780
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: implying that their hard and criminals are like, well, they're

781
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: armed and dangerous, and that there's the armed dangerous that

782
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: actually only hurt one person in this entire time, which

783
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: one person is bad enough, But in the actuality of

784
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: it all, it's like they're not on a killing spring

785
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: as so many would think. Um as in fact, yes,

786
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: the cop is crying, but they keep apologizing to him,

787
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry again.

788
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: Doesn't make it right. But to put them as dangerous

789
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: hard and criminals is not the same implications as what

790
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 1: is happening. And I think he does understand that level,

791
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: and I think he was put in that character as

792
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: being like, hey, here's one guy who kind of gets

793
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: it but still truly cannot get it even though he's

794
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: got some of the puzzle pieces. Yeah, I think so

795
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: I think he's the what is that looks like the

796
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: Star Wars difference of the episode, the po damn roon

797
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: of this where it's like a good guy that doesn't

798
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: get that. He's like, he doesn't get it. So one

799
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: producer said when they were shopping around this script, the

800
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: main characters were quote basically detestable and unsympathetic. Will never

801
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: get the audience to support. And I wanted to use

802
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: this quote because I've actually heard a producer tell me

803
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: something similar about what I wrote once. And then I've

804
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: been thinking about this a lot, and we've been kind

805
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: of talking about it or around it a lot. In

806
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: this because the new Marvel show What If people have

807
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: been saying like this is sort of showcasing white male mediocrity.

808
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: Because I feel like if this was a story about

809
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: two men, we'd be cheering, oh yeah, they like that

810
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 1: cop up at the chunk, like we would be, well,

811
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: we would be, especially if they were defending a woman,

812
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: like even more so, there's nothing higher. A woman can't

813
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: defend herself, but a man defending a woman, it gets

814
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: all the high praises. Yes, yeah, And it just got

815
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: me thinking, and I want to come back into an

816
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: episode on this, but because I kind of talked about

817
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: it and like the glorification of the awl man. But

818
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 1: I just feel like, again, we're saying these women who

819
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: generally are pretty funny, pretty likable, and are not like

820
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: outright hurting anybody other than what we will say is

821
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: pretty villainous and in self defense, and yet we are

822
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: critics at this time. We're saying, like, oh my god,

823
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: they're so detestable, we can't like them, Whereas now I

824
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: feel like a good chunk of our kind of heroes

825
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 1: or anti heroes and are big blockbuster movies, are men

826
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: that are doing the same thing right. Yeah. And then

827
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: another another idea that came up to me is kind

828
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: of this whole like one prison for another. So especially

829
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 1: when you look at Thelma's character, who is like slowly

830
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: realizing I cannot go back to my husband, I cannot

831
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: go back to this life that she was living in

832
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: this prison, and now that she's free from it, she's

833
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: she's like found uh talent or something as she says

834
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: for it, and that she's like blossoming outside of it.

835
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 1: And I know I brought this up in Our Women

836
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: in a Revenge episode, but it made me think of

837
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: the Awakening again, because the Awakening of my Kate Chopin,

838
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: if you haven't read it, it's very similar to this.

839
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: It's about one in who kind of you know, breaks

840
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: gender norms and gender conformities and experiences freedom in a

841
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: way she had before. And then at the end she

842
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: goes swimming, and it's implied you're you're left to decide

843
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: whether she intentionally killed herself or she just died because

844
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: she didn't realize she was going too far out and

845
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: then she couldn't come back. And it's like she was

846
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: going out into freedom and then once she got a

847
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: taste of it, she couldn't go back. And so that

848
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: it reminds me of this. It felt the same of like,

849
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: oh I got this taste for this, I cannot go

850
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: back to what it was before. I was to say,

851
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 1: that's a lot of plot points for women, especially during

852
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 1: like times of suppression and oppression, but they are seen

853
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: as eccentric and so once they become something different, that

854
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: there's no other way to handle this woman than to

855
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: have her own demise, or create her own demise, and

856
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: or lock her away, which is constantly you see that

857
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: with fitz Generald. Some fis old novels. You see that

858
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: with him and Away's novels, like either she dies or

859
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: she's in prison forever like this this kind of one

860
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: or the other, and it does seem like a carrying

861
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: thing that we should come back to now that we're

862
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: talking about it, we should. That's definitely a good point

863
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,919
Speaker 1: of like to get out of this, you have to die.

864
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: If you found freedom, you realize how miserable your life is,

865
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: that there's no other option. Um And speaking specifically for women, yes,

866
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: exactly exactly we did want to talk about because we

867
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: always talk about trauma in here, and Louis's past trauma

868
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: is throughout this film, her PTSD over it. You can

869
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: just see the report effects. That's kind of what caused

870
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: her to shoot this guy Harlan who was attempting to

871
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: rape her friend in the beginning, Like it was just

872
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: built up and she didn't want her friend to go

873
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: through it. But she was also dealing with what she

874
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: had been through. That's why they couldn't go through Texas.

875
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: That's why she couldn't get caught or allow herself to

876
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 1: get caught. She wanted to go on this whole idea

877
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 1: of not believing women Louise is a you know, very

878
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: impactful line where she's like, we don't live in that

879
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: world Filma, like we can't just turn ourselves in, right,

880
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: And we don't know the exact situation. But obviously with

881
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 1: the Harvey Kitael's characters say, I know what happened in Texas,

882
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: she probably went down that route of trying to get

883
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: justice the right way, but she wasn't believed. So it

884
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: was one more trigger in which he learned I'm not

885
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: ever gonna get helped and they don't believe women. So

886
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: that was kind of that whole level of like, yeah,

887
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: there's no justice, and yeah, everything's as bad as I

888
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: remember it being. And it still follows me as it

889
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: doesn't follow the guy who the actual perpetrator, right, Yeah,

890
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: And and I do find it interesting that throughout there

891
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: are these you know, there's this huge, terrible incident at

892
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: the beginning, but then there were all these like minor

893
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: kind of things that we as women are used to

894
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: throughout and so like one is you know, people calling

895
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: the we's especially a bit even though you know she's like,

896
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: don't rape my friend, like oh you bitch, okay, or

897
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: the truck drivers continuously gesturing at them or calling rudely

898
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: at them. Also, he says Stormtrooper of Love, which I

899
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: looked up to make sure I didn't miss here. That

900
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: is what he says, and it is I feel weird

901
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: saying this because I do have I personally have a

902
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: lot of hang ups around revenge. I I guess that

903
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: they're really compelling stories. But it is satisfying as a

904
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: woman to watch that guy get his come up. It's like, honestly, right,

905
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: he didn't get killed in the end, like he was

906
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: fine and yes, and he will be compensated for the livelihood.

907
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: Maybe he will think twice before cat calling women again.

908
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: And how many movies have we seen, especially superhero movies,

909
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: are like James Bomb movies or the movies starts the

910
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: woman gets killed, James Bond kills everybody that had anything

911
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: to do with it, and we're go James Bond, Right,

912
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: that's every show almost too dramatic, police crime? Any of

913
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: those shows are Alombo's lines. Yes, yes, so, I just

914
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: I find it interesting that when it's based towards women

915
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: and women's experiences and lived experiences, and that clearly a

916
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: lot of women can connect to based on how this

917
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: got made, that men were really comfortable around it, and

918
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: that they didn't like that. Women were happy that this

919
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 1: cat callar gotta come up, and they they did their

920
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: own vengeance instead of a man, right, you know, defending

921
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: their honor, which is acceptable, exactly exactly. I find that

922
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 1: really interesting that we can't let women have this like

923
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: cathartic vengeance moment, but men kill all kill all the

924
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 1: people you want in the name of this woman. And

925
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: it's a huge blockbuster hit and we're not gonna have

926
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: a controversy about it, and that's just defending your whole yes. Um.

927
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: And then very briefly, I just want to mention that

928
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: I found in this movie very beautiful, this aspect of

929
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: telling friends about trauma, um and opening up to friends

930
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 1: about trauma and just having that even though you know

931
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: you never hear Louise's story and full, and you never

932
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: really hear Thelma's story and full, but you kind of

933
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: have this acceptance between them and this understanding between them.

934
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: I'm here for what you need. If you don't want

935
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 1: to talk about it, you don't have to talk about it,

936
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: but I understand that this thing happened to you, and

937
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 1: I'm here for you. The check fine, really beautiful. And

938
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:44,919
Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of it is because

939
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 1: a lot of times you and I totally understand that

940
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: the drive but you want to push somebody to tell

941
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: you their experience. But that's not always the healthiest thing

942
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: or the best thing. But to have kind of that like, Okay,

943
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: I'm here for you. I will, you know, occasionally check

944
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: in to you and ask about it, but I'm not

945
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: gonna push you about it, like just find it very

946
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: beautiful as it should be, as it should be. Well,

947
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,439
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen this movie, go check it out.

948
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: It's great. I found it still held up. I had

949
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: a lot of funny moments. To be honest, I know

950
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 1: it sounds kind of great. They had a lot of funny,

951
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: relatable moments that you're like, oh, that's fun and just

952
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 1: kind of that whole Even two towards the end, as

953
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: she's talking about I found my neck, I found I

954
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: can do this. You know, that in itself was a

955
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: funny line in it, and it kind of brought that

956
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: joy of like, well, okay, yeah, again, it's pretty satisfying

957
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,280
Speaker 1: to see why they're coming into their own and coming

958
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: into their friendship and really just like yeah, right, or

959
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: day went all in. They went all in. Well, go

960
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: check it out if you haven't. And in the meantime,

961
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: if you have any suggestions for whatever next movie you

962
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: should be please email us. Our email is Stuff Media

963
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can bind

964
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or inst grammed

965
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: stuff We Never Told You thinks. It's always to our

966
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: super producer Christina. I think she'd be a writer. Di

967
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: She's awesome. I think so, I think you And thanks

968
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You's the

969
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 1: production of Ihier Radio for More podcast from IR Radio,

970
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: BUSR Radio, app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

971
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.