WEBVTT - From the Vault: MDMA, Part 1 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:08.000 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.280 is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.840 Time for a little bit of vault. Uh. You know what, 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:18.000 since we just recently did this big exploration of psychedelics 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.400 with a special focus on especially the fungal world of 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.319 psychedelics and psilocybin, but we didn't really get into M 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:27.159 d M A, we thought we should re air the 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:31.320 episodes that you and Christian did back in about M 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.280 d M A, right, And I do want to stress 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.800 that these episodes, yeah, they are from um, you know, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.320 a lot of research has the research has continued in 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.520 subsequent years, and now we're at a point where we're 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:44.919 really looking at the at M d M A potentially 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:46.920 being rescheduled in the you know, in the in the 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.800 near future. So just keep that in mind as you 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.800 revisit these episodes. You know that the history is still valid, 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.480 but the researcher has advanced and hopefully we'll be able 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.160 to do a future new episode on M d M 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.680 A and what the current research is telling us about 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:08.840 this particular substance. We hope you enjoy. Welcome to Stuff 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:17.720 to Blow Your Mind. From how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:19.360 you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.240 is Robert Lamb and my name is Christian Sager. Today 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.720 we are going to be talking about a drug. We're 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:27.759 gonna be talking about m d m A, also known 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.600 as ecstasy, but specifically we're gonna be getting into kind 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.480 of in this episode. What the you know, breakdown of 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.080 it is, how it works in chemistry, how it works 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.440 in biology, what its effects are on human body. Then 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.680 we're gonna do a second episode that's going to be 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.600 mainly about experiments that have been conducted for what thirty 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.360 years now maybe longer, on how you can use m 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:52.800 d m A to cure all kinds of things or 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:57.320 at least alleviate things from cancer to uh using it 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.520 in psychotherapy, and using it to help people with PTS. Yeah, 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:01.760 so you can think of it as a one to 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.200 approach to looking at a particular drug, and if you 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.480 guide some gals like this, we can take the same 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.600 approach with other substances in the future. Yeah, definitely. It 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:13.560 seems like once we did the research for this, it 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.720 seems like this is rife. This avenue is right for 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:19.840 for more research and episodes along these lines, you know, 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.120 I'd love to do another kind of episode that's based 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:27.120 on the pharmacology of designer drug or or a commercial 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:31.040 kind of street drug. Yes, science based, open minded exploration 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.760 of what the substance is, what its properties are, and 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.440 then how can those properties conceivably be used to our 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.639 advantage in a non recreational way. Now, before we get started, 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.200 I want to remind you all where you can find 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:44.799 us and all the other things that we do a 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.080 lot of people that we encounter actually think that the 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.160 podcast is the only thing that Stuff to Blow Your 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.320 Mind is, But we actually have blog posts and articles 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.280 that we write every week that are available on stuff 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.400 to Blow your Mind dot com. Uh. Robert and I 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.160 and Joe are also all working for How Stuff Works 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.760 still and we write articles for the new How Stuff 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:08.400 Works Now site, and robertson doing videos for them as well. Right, 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.680 what was the last one that was? It was about 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:12.840 the god helmet, right, which we've talked about doing on 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:14.600 the show. Yeah, that's most recent want to come out, 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.880 but yeah, it's generally something kind of weird in science. 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.400 E and I generally put together one a week, So 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:21.639 if you wanna, you know, find out all this other 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:23.200 stuff about us. So you just want to engage with 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.800 us directly. We're on social media all over the place. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.160 You can interact with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Tumbler. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.160 And also every Friday at noon Eastern Standard time, we 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.760 do a periscope where you can talk to us for 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.000 like twenty or thirty minutes. We just hang out in 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.119 front of an iPad and chat with our audience. Hey, 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.640 and if you want to support the show, here's something 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.040 you can do. Give us a little love on iTunes 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.600 if you happen to listen to us through iTunes. We 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.120 have a lot of reviews on there. A lot of 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.839 them are pretty old. Help us out, help the algorithm, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.320 give us a little positive review there, Give us a 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.720 little love. We'd great really appreciate it. Okay, so let's 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.240 get into M d M. First of all, there's a 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.920 lot of preconceived notion about this drug, and in particular, 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.320 uh we we were talking about this before the show, 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.320 that there's preconceived notions on both sides, right which there's 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.720 the anti drug side, the sort of uh, you know, 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.640 this has to be legal side, and then there's the 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:15.880 the the side that's like this is going to expand 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:17.680 your mind and open up new horizons to you that 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.800 you weren't at all aware of UM and and change 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.359 your life side kind of right, Yeah, because yeah, on 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:28.000 one side you have the anti drug one drugs statements 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.320 and then and then yeah, on the recreational side of it, 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.960 you see basically two different types of messaging, right. You 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:40.719 see individuals who are perhaps over emphasizing the spiritual qualities 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.039 of a particular substance, and this goes around the board 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.480 for a number of different drugs. Yeah. Sure, but then 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.960 you also see myths about its origin, myths about what 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.160 it does, mis myths about the potential negative side effects, 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.240 and uh, you know, between all of this, there's certainly 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.400 a more objective view of what it is, is, where 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.440 it came from, and what it can potentially do in 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.240 a beneficial means. So our goal in these episodes is 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.120 going to be to kind of drill down between those 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.200 lines and debunk some of this stuff or explain some 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.120 of these stuff, some of this stuff a little bit 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.960 more thoroughly cleanly. And I think a good place for 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.880 us to start is UM with the journal entries of 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.920 a guy named Alexander Shulgin, who will talk more about later. 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.400 But he is considered the godfather of ecstasy, the godfather 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.120 of M d M A uh. And these are his 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.839 journal entries published in his book Peak Hall about his 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:36.560 first time after he synthesized M D m A taking it. 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.280 This is, I believe in the seventies. So um, We've 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.279 got two quotes here. This first one I'm going to read. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.600 This is from his journal entry on taking a hundred milligrams. 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.400 He says, M D m A intrigued me because everyone 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.960 I asked about it who had used it, answered the 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.880 question what's it's like in the same way, and they said, 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.159 I don't know. So what happened? They would say nothing? 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.960 And now I understand those answers. I too think nothing happened, 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:05.520 But something seemed changed. Before the window opened completely, I 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.840 had some somatic effects, a tingling sensation in the fingers 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:13.640 and temples, a pleasant sensation that wasn't distracting. However, just 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.320 after that, there was a slight naja and a dizziness 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.400 similar to a little bit too much alcohol. All these 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.800 details disappeared as I walked outside. My mood was light 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.320 and happy, but with an underlying conviction that something significant 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.880 was about to happen. There was a change in perspective, 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.440 both in the near visual field and in the distance. 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.960 My usually poor vision was sharpened. That's something that's really 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:38.560 interesting to me. Uh, and that he caught onto that immediately, 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.080 because that's a that's a side effect that isn't that 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.839 isn't well known. I saw details in the distance that 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.320 I could not normally see. After the peak experience had passed, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.160 my major state was one of deep relaxation. I felt 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.000 that I could talk about deep or personal subjects with 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:57.320 special clarity, and I experienced some of the feeling one 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:01.039 has after a second martini, that one is scoorsing brilliantly 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.440 and with a particularly acute analytical power. So that's that's 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.880 his first Like, hey, he synthesized it. And as we'll 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.240 get into later, he basically always started with with small doses. 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.040 He I think he starts sometimes with quite a bit 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.360 smaller than a hundred milligrams, but at the hundred milligram 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:21.680 this is where he started to really experience this mental clarity. Yeah, 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.280 the one certainly gets a sense if you've ever heard 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.760 like an album review where an individual was maybe chewing 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:29.960 a little more than they bid off, as if maybe 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.360 the there's less substance to really focus on, and he's 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.280 having to really reach to find it. Um you get 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.000 a sense of that at the hundred milligram level. Something 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.680 that's worth keeping in mind about these descriptions, too, is 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.720 that Peak Hall was written in the nineties, a good 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.520 twenty years after he took so I'm sure he took 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.280 his journal entries and kind of spiced him up a 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.040 little bit, you know, out of a little poetry, all right. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:57.240 So the next entry is from when he tried in 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.800 d m A at the hundred and twenty milligram level, 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.480 and you'll see a bit of a difference here. Quote. 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.760 I feel absolutely clean inside, and there is nothing but 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.600 pure euphoria. I have never felt so great or believed 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:15.280 this to be possible. The cleanliness, clarity, and marvelous feeling 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.440 of solid inner strength continued throughout the rest of the 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.960 day and evening and through the next day. I am 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.280 overcome by the profundity of the experience and how much 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.880 more powerful it was than previous experiences. For no apparent 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:34.559 reason other than a continually improving state of being. All 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.240 the next day I felt like a citizen of the 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.120 universe rather than a citizen of the planet, completely disconnecting 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:45.040 time and flowing easily from one activity to the next. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.040 And again these are from Alexander Shulgan's book Peak Hall, 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.640 which is uh subtitled a chemical love Story. We're we're 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.520 gonna talk more about Shulgan later because he on his 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.600 own is just totally fascinating. But there's another quote that 0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.320 that you put in here that's from that book, which 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.480 is M D m A. It was beginning to be 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.520 a parent could be all things to all people. And 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.319 it's kind of interesting because, uh, it hasn't now or 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.160 until until recently with what you know what we're gonna 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.080 be talking about towards the end of these two episodes 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:19.000 about the I guess medical applications, medical and therapeutic applications, 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.320 but it is, it is all things, you know what. 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.200 I'll take it back, it's all things to all people 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.360 in that like, everybody kind of brings their own thing 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.079 to it. Yeah, and that's part of the problem as 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.479 well discussed. That's one of the reasons that that legitimate 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.760 exploration of M D m A fell out of favor 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:41.000 because it became this counterculture thing. It became this recreational farm, 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.199 pharmacological vehicle. And I actually have one quick quote that 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.120 I want to read just to to drive home kind 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.360 of the the other end of the pool. And this 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.080 is from a UK disco DJ, DJ Harvey Born DJ 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.120 born Harvey Bassett. He says, quote, you can't understand the 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.800 Blues until you've had your heartbroken, and you can't understand 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:05.160 my music until you've had group sex on ecstasy. So 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.960 that that's the kind of quote where it instantly makes 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.600 you think, Okay, maybe I'm a less into this idea 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.160 of m d m A. Is this this pure window 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.120 into ourself? Um, it helps perpetuate a sort of mythology 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.199 about it. Yeah, and we and we should talk a 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.600 little about about the mythology because I'm thinking we largely 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:27.400 have three types of individuals out there. They're the individuals 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.600 who have some level of experience with m d m A, 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.000 with ecstasy, molly Adam, whatever you want to call it. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.760 And then and then their individuals who maybe have never 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.080 heard of this before. But I think for the most part, 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.640 you're gonna have that group who have encountered it time 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.240 and time again in movies and on TV shows. So 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.760 many TV shows, it's become a standard trope it's like 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:49.840 giving birth to a baby in an elevator. Yeah, it 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.440 really did. I think probably the nineties was one that 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.920 took off the most, um Robert. Robert posted to the 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.320 again another reason why you should follow us on social media. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.280 We occasionally throw out questions the audience for these episodes. 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.000 Robert asked our audience yesterday, uh for examples of these 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.600 from TV? And my wife, of all people, it was 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.240 one of the people who posted this example from Beverly 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:15.240 Hills nine O two and oh, okay, yeah the when? 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.160 Uh was his name Brandon? Was he the main character 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:23.320 on I O two and No? I can't remember the Yeah, 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.280 so that's the same by the Bell Show. Okay, yeah, 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.120 I get this. Uh yeah, no, no two and no. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.040 He dated this girl for a little while. He was 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.880 like kind of a bad girl, wore a leather jacket 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.680 and had bleached hair, and like, of course, like she 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:37.960 wanted to do M D M A. And so there's 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.920 a whole episode about about his experience with that and 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.640 and that, you know, you know, frankly, I think a 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.160 lot of these TV examples perpetuate one of one side 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.720 or the other of these stereotypes that we've been talking 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:55.320 about Yeah, it's either like the crazy rave person. Instantly 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.960 think of the the episode of Space, classic British show, 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.880 we had the ray Or character. I think he was 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.079 like a bike courier. It's his name is Tires. Re 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.200 watched this episode last night because it's one of my 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.120 favorite episodes of Space, and when we all day doing 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.440 the research for this, I just had Tires in my head. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:15.040 And the scene with Nick Frost all in like army 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.720 gear at a rave doing ecstasy and kind of like 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.559 put pointing fake guns at the audience and shooting at them. 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.360 And then he like puts a fake gun in his 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:26.679 mouth and everybody's clapping. It's so ridiculous. But yeah, that's 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.520 the other side, which is the like, this is so amazing. 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:31.840 It makes you feel so great. And even at the 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.800 very end, Tires the bike courier like he leaves and 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.520 the voiceover says, my job is done here or my 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:40.760 work is done here. So you have that, and then 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.280 you have sort of the comic oops, I took ecstasy 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:48.960 kind of trope. And then uh, an increasingly dominant trope 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.040 that that I see in a lot of series these days. 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:55.840 Is Um is one of more of a shamanistic ecstasy 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.319 experience where the characters are are learning something about themselves. 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:01.960 I think, uh, there's an episode of six ft Under 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.280 that dealt with this, especially where I think, I remember 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.520 this is David who takes it right, Maybe more than 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.200 one character because I think the mother, Oh yeah, she 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.280 accidentally takes it too. Yeah, it's been a while and 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:17.479 she ends up having this profound experience and this experiences 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.040 this openness with the world, which which I think Tie 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.040 is in rather nicely with some of the the objective 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.400 material that we're going to look at here. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.240 but but yeah, there's a we have a small list. 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:32.680 This is not everything. I'm sure there's far more than this. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.079 but but here just a few. We've seen ecstasy M 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:40.240 d M A play in two episodes of Transparent. Excellent show. Yeah, 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.800 the Carrie Diaries that like, it's like Sex in the 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.280 City prequel, right, she's in high school. I think, how 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:54.319 to make it in America, Orphan black Skins. It's always 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.120 stunning in Philadelphia, peep show. Um, you're a big fan. 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.880 I still haven't seen people you'd recommen did it to me? Yes, yeah, yeah, 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.920 there's I can't remember precisely what happened, but I know 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.120 I do remember what happened, and I can't mention it here. 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:15.280 But so there's Peep Show, Workaholics, Californication Party Down the 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:20.120 episode is I like that one East Founding down um 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:24.240 looking and uh yeah, just so many more. Yeah, and 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.520 it's funny. A lot of those examples are kind of 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:30.840 more recent actually, and and I gravitate to that nine 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.080 O two on O example because that's what I remember 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.760 in the nineties, the like kind of like after school 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.280 special plot that's like, alright, somebody's gonna get you to 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:41.840 try to take this and they're gonna tell you that 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.280 it's gonna feel so good, but watch what really happens. 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.440 You know, Like before we came into the studio, is 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.680 talking to Joe about this, and Joe says to me, oh, 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.160 are you guys gonna talk about the myth that it 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.240 puts holes in your brain? And I was like, I've 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.880 never even heard of that, And and sure enough, like 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.360 Joe had heard this whole myth growing up. You know, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.800 you take ecstasy and literally two through your brain matter apparently, 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:06.880 so which, as far as I can tell from the research, 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.600 is not true, right, It's interesting though that in just 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.280 looking at the television portrayals we see this, uh, this 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.880 change from the the anti drug messaging. It's just this 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.280 is something evil and awful, stay away from it, to 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.440 where it is portrayed as more of a like a 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.040 rite of passage, as this really more of a shamanistic experience. 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.280 Even if the character is engaging in the shamanistic experience, 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:33.320 are not prepared for the experience. Yeah, I guess, like 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.160 what I would like to see a move more towards 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.360 and from reading the research on this, definitely, like the 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.800 scholars who are studying this seemed to be in this 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:45.920 area is understanding the chemical and the chemistry and how 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.400 it interacts with human biology, as if like the brain 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.920 is like a machine run on chemicals, which it is, 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.560 you know, and how those are, how those kind of 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.960 work together. Right. That seems like a much more mature 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.360 approach to this to me than than one side or 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.760 the other. And and uh and hopefully we can kind 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.160 of you know, bring that here. But also obviously we're 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.400 gonna dip our toes into into the pop culture examples 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.960 because that's what we're all familiar with. All right. Well, 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.040 on that note, let's let's go ahead and dive in 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.800 when we're talking about m d M A and ecstasy. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.640 First of all, ecstasy. Ecstasy is of course the street variant, right, 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.920 this is the pill version, and generally speaking there's m 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.760 d m A in there, but there are probably other 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.600 properties in there as well. Yeah, I mean, let's admit it, like, 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.760 who knows who's making this stuff unless you're making it yourself. Yeah, 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.720 it's coming from a lab and another continent. Yeah, it's 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:39.760 it's kind of an unknown quantity. One thing that was 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:41.600 interesting that I saw in the research, though, is that 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.400 m d m A, among many street drugs, is known 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.000 for its purity, uh, and that it wasn't until I believe, 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.360 like the late nineties or no, mid nineties that uh, 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.240 the purity was in question. When they would test it, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.680 it was, you know, significantly lower than but since the 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.080 mid two thousand's when they've been testing it, it's always been. 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.520 So I don't want to perpetuate like this fear that like, oh, yes, 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.879 somebody cut like PCP into your m d M A 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:09.800 or what who knows whatever? You know, all right, so 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:14.400 let's talk about it. M d n A the substance itself, 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:19.040 m d m A stands for methylene dioxy meth amphetamine, 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:23.480 and it's a synthetic psychoactive drug. It's chemically similar to 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:28.720 the stimulant meth amphetamine and the hallucinogen mescaline. It produces 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:34.359 feelings of increased energy, euphoria, emotional warmth, distortions in time, perception, 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:40.600 tactile experiences. Interestingly enough, you don't see these um these 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:45.680 experiences described generally as as states of ecstasy. Like, it's 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:47.320 really kind of a misnomer to even call it that. 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.399 It's more euphoric, it's more openness. It's more like the 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:56.199 self becomes permeable and uh, you're allowed to interact with 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.720 the world a little more. That's another myth that I 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:00.960 think is perpetuated by t t V and movies a 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.560 little bit too about it, right, is that like everybody 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:05.960 just wants to have sex the minute to take M 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.439 d m A because it's ecstasy, right, And that's not 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:12.760 necessarily the case. There was another TV example which I've 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.640 mentioned this show several times on on on our show 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.720 Uh Millennium than the nine nineties show starring Lance Hendrickson 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.040 the very first episode of that show, I believe or 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.399 maybe it was like the third or fourth featured a 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.120 couple who took M D M A and they were 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:29.879 just so out of it and so in love with 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:31.800 each other that a serial killer was able to capture 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.520 them and kill them both. You know, it was just ridiculous. 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:39.119 But so anyways, it's important to remember that this drug, basically, 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.560 it's a central nervous system stimulant right when you get 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.879 down to it, and UH, it is particularly connected to 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.760 the serotonin transporters in our brain. We're gonna drill down 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.760 and look at that further later. Let's let's continue on 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.440 with the basics. Yeah, it's so as I've said, it's 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.720 a it's a unique combination of both stimulant and UH 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:02.879 and a psychatoman eddic UH substance. So some people actually 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:07.080 tend to classify it as a enactogen or an empathogen, 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.359 all due to its power to induce emotional communion again, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.080 this sense of oneness, emotional openness in the form of 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:21.320 empathy and sympathy. Yeah, so it's pretty popular, and we 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.719 know this because not just for from it showing up 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.280 on TV and movies, but actually populations surveys show that 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.520 it's the third most widely used illegal drug in the 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.760 world after cannabis and cocaine, which surprised me. I guess I, 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:36.600 I guess I was surprised that cocaine was so much 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:40.080 higher too. But um, uh, well, I mean the the 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.040 various effects that we've discussed, I mean, without getting into 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.399 any of the legal side of it, or the or 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.320 the ramifications like who wouldn't want to feel that way? 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.040 If someone said, hey, let me just ask you one 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.359 quick question, would you like to feel like this? And 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.800 you would say yes, I'd like to hear some more 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:01.600 information about what you're proposed. Yeah, exactly, Like it's like, uh, 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.840 somebody handing up pamphlets at the trade station. Yeah, yeah, no, 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.880 I agree. I was talking with a friend last night 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.760 actually who experienced using m d m A in the seventies, 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.240 actually around the same time the children when was first 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.840 experimenting with it, and uh, and that was kind of 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:18.800 the conclusion that you know, he came to is that 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.760 you know, well, people would say, you know, people even 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.800 before there was a usage of it for psychoanalysts and 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.800 therapy applications, they would say, well do you want to 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.560 feel good? You know, and and and lots of people 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.840 out there, don't want to feel sad, don't want to 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.400 be angry, don't want to be lonely. Sure, I want 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:38.480 to feel good. But as we'll get to this isn't 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.920 a particularly addictive drug either. So it's not like cocaine 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:43.400 in the sense where it's like you're gonna feel good 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:45.880 and then you're gonna have to feed in that monkey, right, 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:48.600 you know. Um, it's like this is more of a 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:50.560 situation where you're gonna feel really good and then you're 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.040 probably gonna want to take it again and uh a 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:58.000 month or two, Yeah, yeah, exactly, maybe never depending you know. 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.000 It's um, yeah, well we'll get into those properties. In fact, 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.320 to give you a sort of a broad look at 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.960 how many people have potentially done it, European Monitoring the 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:11.000 the European Monitoring Center for Drugs and Drug Addiction surveyed 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.000