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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: discussed all things mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information

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Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls

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Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to

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Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to

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Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental

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Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me

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Speaker 1: for session seventeen of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast.

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Speaker 1: So today I am joined by a special therapist and

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Speaker 1: our no copay needed segment to talk all about something

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Speaker 1: that we don't talk about nearly enough, eating to disorders.

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Speaker 1: And yes, black women and girls do struggle with eating

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Speaker 1: disorders as well. So I am joined by Dr Judy

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Speaker 1: Lee Webb. Doctor Webb is a licensed psychologist in the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta area and the co owner and co director of

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Speaker 1: New Directions Counseling Center, a group practice with thirteen clinicians.

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Speaker 1: She conducts individual, couples and family therapy with adolescents and

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Speaker 1: adults and specializes in treating depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, eating disorders,

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Speaker 1: body image, weight management and obesity issues, relationship issues, divorce issues,

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Speaker 1: parent child interactions, adolescent issues, sexual identity, self esteem issues,

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Speaker 1: and trauma. As a Jamaican who has lived in America

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Speaker 1: for many years, she is also sensitive to minority diversity

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Speaker 1: and cultural issues. Doctor Webb is also the founding president

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Speaker 1: of I a e d P Atlanta ch After and

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Speaker 1: was the first psychologist in Georgia to become a certified

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Speaker 1: Eating disorders Specialist. She is also an I a e

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Speaker 1: d P Approved supervisor. In the conversation with Dr Webb,

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Speaker 1: we discuss the symptoms of eating disorders, the misconception about

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Speaker 1: black women not struggling with eating disorders, as well as

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Speaker 1: how you can make sure that you have a healthier

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Speaker 1: relationship to food. So, thank you so much for joining

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Speaker 1: me today, Judy Lee, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Yeah, So I really was excited

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Speaker 1: to have you on the podcast to talk with us

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Speaker 1: about eating disorders. Um. And so you know, commonly we

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Speaker 1: hear that black girls don't get eating disorders. UM, so

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Speaker 1: can you give us a little information or any insight

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Speaker 1: you may have about why you think that misconception exists.

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Speaker 1: You know, I guess just still the stigma associated out there,

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Speaker 1: not just in terms of eating disorders, but more so

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Speaker 1: in terms of mental health in the black community, so

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Speaker 1: people oftentimes don't want to talk about it. But I

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Speaker 1: must say this, I don't know if it's because in

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Speaker 1: my practice there are several um black psychologists and therapists

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Speaker 1: in our practice, but we don't have a shortage of

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Speaker 1: people of color coming in to therapy in our private practice,

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Speaker 1: but as professionals were represented there so but i'd still

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Speaker 1: do here oftentimes my clients saying they haven't told their

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Speaker 1: family that they're in therapy or what have you. So

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Speaker 1: that's still common in our community. Can you give us

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Speaker 1: some background information about maybe like a typical black woman

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Speaker 1: client who you would see in your practice? Well, I

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Speaker 1: see um from teenagers on up. But again I'm in

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Speaker 1: a private practice with thirteen providers, so from we see

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Speaker 1: it from children to the elderly. But in my particular practice, UM,

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Speaker 1: I do see a lot of women in there. I'd

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Speaker 1: say late twenties too, early fifties, many of them struggling

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Speaker 1: with depression, anxiety, a few cases of meting bipolar disorder

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Speaker 1: and body image issues, eating issues and also yes, eating disorders.

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Speaker 1: UM books coming in for career issues. And then what

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Speaker 1: I seem to get a lot of our single woman

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Speaker 1: who are at a place in their life that they

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Speaker 1: wish they were at a different place, such as they

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Speaker 1: wish they were married or had children or have you.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes depression comes along with that, just not feeling

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Speaker 1: fulfilled in their life because it's not turning out the

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Speaker 1: way they had hoped. So that's another common issue that

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Speaker 1: I tend to see a couple's relationship issues as well. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: So specific to the eating concerns, what are some of

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Speaker 1: the things that somebody might recognize in themselves that would

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Speaker 1: maybe result in them seeking treatment with you related to eating? Sure, oftentimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, I a lot of us, and I think

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Speaker 1: I would be lying if I said I never thought about, um,

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Speaker 1: the food I'm putting in my body, or ever thought

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Speaker 1: about my shape or size or what have you. But

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Speaker 1: it's how often, you know, some folks have become more critical,

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Speaker 1: very critical of their their body, their size, there the

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Speaker 1: number on the scale or what have you, and maybe obsessing,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a constant thing. Some people may be

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Speaker 1: weighing themselves every day or comparing themselves to other people,

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Speaker 1: and it's turning into this internal dialogue of I'm not

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Speaker 1: pretty enough, I'm not good enough, I need to lose weight.

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Speaker 1: If I was better looking, I would blah blah, you know,

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Speaker 1: fill in the blank, or you know, great things would

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Speaker 1: come to me or what have you. So, UM, when

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Speaker 1: it starts to turn into a lot of this negative dialogue,

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Speaker 1: um and being hard on yourself and critical of yourself,

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Speaker 1: that's one issue that is serious. And then also when

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Speaker 1: it starts starts to make you have a poor relationship

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Speaker 1: with food and again, whether it be yo yo dieting

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Speaker 1: or restricting or um, feeling the need to exercise a lot.

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Speaker 1: I had one client who had four gym memberships. You know,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's easier to go to four different gyms

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Speaker 1: so that people don't see you there all the time.

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Speaker 1: But she felt a need to exercise quite a bit

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Speaker 1: in order to quote unquote get rid of what she

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Speaker 1: had eaten during the day. So, UM, when you start

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Speaker 1: having this negative self talk and then having a very

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Speaker 1: poor relationship with your food or body, then um, you

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Speaker 1: maybe having an issue there, and I do think, um,

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Speaker 1: and something that I've been thinking about it as I've

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Speaker 1: been thinking about like waiting to talk to you, UM,

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Speaker 1: is you know, like we are seeing much more of

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Speaker 1: a push in our culture just towards healthier eating and

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Speaker 1: veganism and you know, all of the things that can

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Speaker 1: be healthy, um, but likely if done in extremes, can

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Speaker 1: be difficult, right correct? Yeah? Yeah, can you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about like the balance between like having

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Speaker 1: a healthy relationship with food and like really wanting to

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Speaker 1: be healthy about that versus like eating disordered kind of concerns?

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Speaker 1: You know, I would you know, I'm not a dietitian,

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Speaker 1: but I do have one of my practice, and I

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Speaker 1: would definitely recommend everyone to at least have one visit

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Speaker 1: with a dietitian or a nutritionist. And because everybody's body

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Speaker 1: is different and a dietitian can help you figure out

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Speaker 1: what your body truly needs on a daily basis. Again,

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Speaker 1: it's not a one size fits all, but um, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you if you're not listening to your body, if

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Speaker 1: you truly truly respect your body and listen to it,

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Speaker 1: your body will tell you what it wants and needs

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Speaker 1: for example, my body does not like it if I

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Speaker 1: skip breakfast. It just doesn't you know, I have to

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Speaker 1: eat something in the morning, and I know I feel

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Speaker 1: better when I eat something that involves protein. If I

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Speaker 1: was to just eat say a bowl of cereal or

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Speaker 1: a slice of toast with you know, butter and jelly

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Speaker 1: on it, it just doesn't feel as good as if

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Speaker 1: I were to have something like an omelet or something

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Speaker 1: that had protein in it. So I now listen to

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Speaker 1: my body and say, okay, this is what my body

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Speaker 1: likes for breakfast, something something substantial with protein. If I

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Speaker 1: don't have the protein with it, I just don't, you know.

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Speaker 1: By ten o'clock eleven o'clock, I'm like, you know, a

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Speaker 1: body is talking back to me. So that's you know,

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Speaker 1: there's something called intuitive eating, and it's really about truly

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Speaker 1: listening to your body and feeding it the way it

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Speaker 1: should be. Because it's been proven that diets don't work.

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Speaker 1: And although there are a lot of these uh different

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Speaker 1: you know, like I said that you mentioned being vegan

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Speaker 1: or vegetarian or paleo diet or what have you, it

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Speaker 1: can get confusing. It could really get confusing, and going

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Speaker 1: to the grocery store could be daunting because you're like,

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Speaker 1: am I supposed to heat that about? Again, just even

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Speaker 1: one visit with a dietitian will tell you what your

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Speaker 1: body needs, because again the dietitian might order some blood work,

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Speaker 1: some lab work on you. Because if you're deficient and

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Speaker 1: iron or vitamin D, you know, you you need to

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Speaker 1: get that through food. You can't, you know, unless you're gonna,

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Speaker 1: I guess, which is not a good idea to pop

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Speaker 1: a bunch of vitamins, but you know it would be

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Speaker 1: best to get it through food. So I would suggest

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Speaker 1: people go and see a registered dietitian, UM who has

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Speaker 1: experience in this area. Okay, and can you tell us

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Speaker 1: what are the different types of eating disorders? Okay? Well,

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Speaker 1: we have this anorexia nervosa and that's basically typically when

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Speaker 1: folks are restricting what they eat to a point that

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Speaker 1: their weight is lower than their body would like it

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Speaker 1: to be or needs to be, and oftentimes medical issues

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Speaker 1: start to occur with that. UM, lots of I can

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Speaker 1: go on and on about many different medical issues that

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Speaker 1: it can occur with all eating disorders, but UM, one

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Speaker 1: of the true TAEL signs. They've kind of taken this

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Speaker 1: away from the diagnosis, but oftentimes women may lose their

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Speaker 1: ment stration cycle UM with anorexia. So that's always a

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Speaker 1: telltale tign that your body is definitely in a place

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Speaker 1: where it's not getting what it needs. Another common one

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Speaker 1: that people may have heard of is bulimia no versa

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Speaker 1: well just known or also another just bulimia, and that's

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Speaker 1: where folks are eating a large amount of food in

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Speaker 1: a in a in a short time like binging and

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Speaker 1: then purging means getting rid of quote unquote getting rid

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Speaker 1: of the food in some way, shape or form, and

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Speaker 1: it can be it can involve vomiting, It could involve

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Speaker 1: laxative abuse, UM exercise abuse, you know, over exercising, taking diuretics,

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Speaker 1: so the client is doing something to try to get

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Speaker 1: rid of UM food. A new one that they've added

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Speaker 1: to the diagnostic manual this pasture is binge eating disorder.

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Speaker 1: So I'm very glad that they've added that because we've

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Speaker 1: been seeing it for a long long time, but it

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Speaker 1: wasn't an actual diagnosis until recently. But that involves binge

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Speaker 1: eating and again eating a large amount of food in

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Speaker 1: a short amount of time and feeling very uncontroled, like

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Speaker 1: like you're out of control. UM. There are a few others,

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Speaker 1: another one that's UM as A new one is called

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Speaker 1: UM avoided and food restricted. So so oftentimes people are

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Speaker 1: have a fear of food or avoid certain foods and

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Speaker 1: it has caused them to have a disorder or their

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Speaker 1: body again isn't getting what it needs. I had one

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Speaker 1: client actually avoiding this is more kind of an obsessive issue,

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Speaker 1: obsessive compulsive disorder, but avoiding green foods, or they may

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Speaker 1: avoid foods that they consider fattening or sweets so UM,

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Speaker 1: or just really having a fear of the food, so

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Speaker 1: they become very anxious if they are needing to eat

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Speaker 1: that particular food. So those are the main ones will

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Speaker 1: typically see and and what about UM? And I know

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Speaker 1: this is necessarily a diagnosis, but you definitely do hear

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Speaker 1: a lot about emotional eating, So can you explain what

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Speaker 1: that is? Sure? Yes, UM, because it may not involve

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Speaker 1: the bene eating. So that's why it's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not included in the bene eating diagnosis. But emotional eating

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Speaker 1: is when your emotions are driving your UM, your eating patterns,

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Speaker 1: and it could be positive emotions such as getting a

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Speaker 1: new job or or you know, or um getting approach

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Speaker 1: at work or what have you, or it could oftentimes though,

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Speaker 1: it's negative emotions, whether it be sadness, and another common

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Speaker 1: one is loneliness, feeling lonely, um or even feeling tired, frustrated, irritable,

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Speaker 1: what have you. But you know, there's sometimes a disconnect

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Speaker 1: between the emotion and what the person is doing, so

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Speaker 1: that some folks are not even aware of it that oh,

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Speaker 1: my gosh, did I eat all of those donuts last night?

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Speaker 1: You know, and it's what drove them to eat the

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Speaker 1: doughnuts as they had a bad day that day or

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Speaker 1: what have you. So emotional eating versus again. If you

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Speaker 1: aren't emotional eating, then you may be what you call

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Speaker 1: what we call intuitive eating. Again. That's listening to your

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Speaker 1: body and giving your body what it needs, because your

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Speaker 1: body will tell you when you're full, and your body

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Speaker 1: will tell you when you're hungry, or your body will

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Speaker 1: tell you when you're satisfied. Because it's good to be satisfied.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's not good to be stuffed or too full,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the Thanksgiving day full. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: not supposed to be a Thanksgiving dinner every day of

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Speaker 1: the year, So um, You're eating pattern is dictated by

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Speaker 1: your emotions, and oftentimes it's a negative emotion. Okay, And

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Speaker 1: is there anything I mean you mentioned Thanksgiving, which is

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Speaker 1: always such an interesting discussion, right, Um, is there anything

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Speaker 1: about like the relationship that culture has with food that

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Speaker 1: makes it either difficult to diagnose an eating disorder or

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Speaker 1: to treat a disor any disorder. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's culture makes it difficult to diagnose, because um, there's

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Speaker 1: no cultural descriptor in the diagnosis, in the diagnosis, you know,

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Speaker 1: but it definitely makes it hard to treat. I mean

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Speaker 1: I have had what was an interesting client is um,

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Speaker 1: an Indian client, and you know, the types of food

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Speaker 1: and also the celebrations or even things like fasting for

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Speaker 1: religious reasons, you know. So you know, it's we have

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Speaker 1: to really take into consideration their culture, um, and the

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Speaker 1: types of food that may be eaten on a regular basis.

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Speaker 1: So Um, I'm from Jamaica and you know we have

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Speaker 1: rights and peas a lot, you know, or and so

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Speaker 1: you know, I remember just it was more so half

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Speaker 1: of my plate had rice and peas on it versus

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Speaker 1: one fourth of the plate. You know, you would just

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Speaker 1: eat a lot of rice, UM. And so yes, you

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Speaker 1: do need to take culture and to consider asia because

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Speaker 1: just the way someone grows up or the types of

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Speaker 1: food that's cooked in the home and how often and

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Speaker 1: you know it's it does need to be taken into consideration.

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Speaker 1: It can't be ignored, you know, right right, okay? And

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Speaker 1: so what does treatment look like? And I know of

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Speaker 1: course this is varied across you know, the diagnosis and

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Speaker 1: the person. But what would treatment look like, UM for example,

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Speaker 1: like for beinge eating disorder? Like what might some things

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Speaker 1: UM that you would do with the client in your office? Well,

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Speaker 1: for me, I used quite a bit of cognitive behavioral

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Speaker 1: therapy and that spaceship basically UM getting an understanding of

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Speaker 1: how the person thinks. Like an easy way to describe

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Speaker 1: it a Layment's terms way described is like glass half

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Speaker 1: empty or glass half full, you know, pessimist, optimists, what

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Speaker 1: have you. So we're trying to figure out what the

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Speaker 1: client's negative thinking, you know, just what that typically looks like,

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Speaker 1: UM to like I said, glass of empty and giving

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Speaker 1: the client tools of ways to have alternative ways of thinking,

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Speaker 1: a healthier perspective. You know, oftentimes say somebody was UM

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Speaker 1: fired from their job of course, it's going to be

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Speaker 1: very normal for them to have some negative thoughts like

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Speaker 1: oh no, how am I going to pay my mortgage?

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Speaker 1: Or when will I get another job? Or I'm not

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Speaker 1: good enough because why they fired me or what have you.

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Speaker 1: But having a person changed their change their thoughts about,

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Speaker 1: you know, I will get another job, I need, I

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Speaker 1: will use my resources or what have you. And the

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Speaker 1: same thing with emotional eating UM or binge eating. Pardon me,

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Speaker 1: but it's sort of like, um, well, if I eat

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Speaker 1: all of this ice cream today, I promise I'll be

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Speaker 1: good tomorrow, you know. And so it's getting folks to

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Speaker 1: change their way they are thinking and say, no, I

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Speaker 1: can have some of this ice cream today and some tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: That's another way of thinking of it. So it's it's

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Speaker 1: changing very rational or negative thoughts into more functional and

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Speaker 1: rational thoughts. And then the behavior side of cognit behavior

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Speaker 1: therapy is um engaging in healthier behaviors than in this case,

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Speaker 1: bench eating. So what are some things that can replace

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Speaker 1: or or destroying a healthy distraction? You know? For me,

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Speaker 1: I can sit here and watch episode after episode after

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Speaker 1: episode of things on h G t V. You know,

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Speaker 1: So maybe I need to turn the TV onto h

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Speaker 1: G t V tonight instead of not having the TV on,

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Speaker 1: or just you know, being all in my head and

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Speaker 1: keep going back to the to the kitchen, so behavior

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Speaker 1: there or other things healthy ways to soothe myself because

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Speaker 1: sometimes you know, eating disorders connected to somebody trying to

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Speaker 1: soothe their emotions. And you know, oftentimes I like to

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Speaker 1: um take a warm bath or sit out on them,

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Speaker 1: I back random with a cup of tea and just

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Speaker 1: a book, or catch up on these magazines that I

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Speaker 1: haven't caught up on, Like you know that that that

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Speaker 1: is calming and soothing to me. So helping the clients

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Speaker 1: create a different tools that they can put in their

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Speaker 1: toolbox instead of poor behavior with food. So and I

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Speaker 1: pull from other diagnosed other techniques and treatments as well.

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Speaker 1: But that's the main one, Okay. And as you were talking,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about like all the different ways that like

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Speaker 1: having UM disordered eating might impact them in different ways.

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Speaker 1: So um, I can imagine that if you struggle in

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Speaker 1: your relationship with food, like it may be really difficult

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Speaker 1: to date because you're maybe focused on Okay, what am

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Speaker 1: I gonna order when I go out with this person

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Speaker 1: and not really being in touch with what's happening on

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Speaker 1: the actual date. Correct, And that's what I mentioned. It's

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Speaker 1: like if you're being if you're in your head too much,

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Speaker 1: if you're starting to really obsess about food or obsess

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Speaker 1: about your weight or your size or your shape, then

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Speaker 1: that's really an issue because like you mentioned, yes, you

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Speaker 1: should be engaged more in the conversation or getting to

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Speaker 1: know the person or what have you, not about what's

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Speaker 1: on the menu or what you're gonna um eat or

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Speaker 1: how much you ate. So yeah, you're kind of again

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Speaker 1: there's a disconnect from the date because you're in your

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Speaker 1: head too much about the food. Yeah. Yeah, And can

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Speaker 1: you maybe talk a little bit about other areas where

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Speaker 1: you see, um, the disordered eating like popping up um

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Speaker 1: and making other other areas in your life difficult. Other

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Speaker 1: areas what do you mean? I'm sorry? Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: like in relationships, so like in dating or maybe um,

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Speaker 1: in relationships with the family or friends. Like what other

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Speaker 1: struggles might they have in those areas. I think it's

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Speaker 1: in every area. I know of folks who because of

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Speaker 1: their job stress that is sometimes a quote unquote trigger too.

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Speaker 1: Maybe like again a a day at work or stressed

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Speaker 1: out at work or didn't get a promotion or what

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Speaker 1: have you. UM. Definitely, relationships, UM, you know, relationships can

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Speaker 1: be difficult at times, and that's what that's that comes

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Speaker 1: up a lot in therapy. UM. Family dynamics, UM, you'll

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Speaker 1: be surprised. Well maybe not anymore, but I remember being

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Speaker 1: very surprised at just the UM negative body image talk

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Speaker 1: that's even amongst family members, including in the black family,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so you know, some

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Speaker 1: people saying, oh, your you look so fat, or you

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Speaker 1: gained weight or you know, or you're you know, you're

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Speaker 1: not as even skin color. I mean, we can, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can go from hair texture, skin color, what have you.

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Speaker 1: But since we're focusing on eating disorders to say, I'll

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Speaker 1: just stick to that. But it's like, you know, UM,

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Speaker 1: people family members making fun of people or telling folks

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Speaker 1: they're not pretty enough, or they don't they're not as

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Speaker 1: thin as their sister, or something like that that happens

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Speaker 1: within the family dynamics. UM. Definitely, I've seen things happened

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Speaker 1: in athletics. You know, oftentimes my clients UM are athletes,

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Speaker 1: and they are that's something that makes them lose weight,

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Speaker 1: especially the sports such as cross country or swimming, UM dance,

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Speaker 1: any kind of UM dance or gymnastics. Other sports as well, soccer, lacrosse, anything, tennis,

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Speaker 1: but you know, definitely the sports where your body, your shape,

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Speaker 1: and your size are um a priority, you know, so

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Speaker 1: uh it comes up in sports as well. UM pair relationships, friendships,

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Speaker 1: especially comparing yourself to others. You know, I'm not as

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Speaker 1: pretty as my best friend is or what have you.

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Speaker 1: I'm not as thin as so and so. Um so

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Speaker 1: that that happens. And you know, even even amongst you know,

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Speaker 1: I believe we're both in our four ease and you know,

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Speaker 1: you can sit around and you you'll be you if

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Speaker 1: you really listen. We're also critical of ourselves in our

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Speaker 1: peer relationships, you know, like I need to I need

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Speaker 1: to lose weight, or even like somebody just had a baby,

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Speaker 1: Oh I need to take this baby weight off like

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Speaker 1: a sap. Well, I don't know. I just saw something

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Speaker 1: online last night where the positive and negative feedback about

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Speaker 1: Beyonce's um post baby picture where she's holding her twins,

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Speaker 1: and you know, some folks are positive, I don't have

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Speaker 1: some positive feedback, and then some folks are negative because

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Speaker 1: she's they're like, really, one month after having twins and

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Speaker 1: you look like that, You're making me feel bad, you

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Speaker 1: know so Again, its folks who may have be self

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Speaker 1: critical are then internalizing that picture and saying, well, obviously

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Speaker 1: I'm not good enough if I can't take my baby

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Speaker 1: weight off in a year and she has had twins

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Speaker 1: in a month and she looks like that, you know so, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I would imagine that much of your work, given

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Speaker 1: that you work with such a range of ages, much

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Speaker 1: of your work may be related to like social media,

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Speaker 1: Like how people it's so much easier to compare yourself

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Speaker 1: like on Instagram pictures and things like that. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for reminding me of that. Yeah, well, I mean I

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Speaker 1: tell you, I think I feel like my business has

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Speaker 1: increased or the issues in in in topics of conversation

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Speaker 1: and session has really been around social media. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's the comparisons and comparison factor, you know. I tell folks,

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Speaker 1: the only person that you should compare yourself to if

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Speaker 1: if anybody is an identical twin raised in the same family.

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Speaker 1: That's it. You're not like anyone else except for your

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Speaker 1: identical twin. And I have to add raised in the

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Speaker 1: same family. If you're not raised in the same family.

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Speaker 1: There could be environmental factors that make twins different. But

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Speaker 1: other than that, I tell you the social media thing. Lord, Yes,

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Speaker 1: so have you had to develop like any kinds of

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Speaker 1: interventions particularly yes, yeah, can you tell me more about that.

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Speaker 1: Instead of restricting on food, you need to restrict on

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Speaker 1: the social media. I mean seriously, um, you know, yes,

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Speaker 1: definitely interventions on either like significantly cutting down on the

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Speaker 1: amount of social media that folks engage in on a

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Speaker 1: daily basis and helping them with the cognitive behavioral stuff

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Speaker 1: that goes on with it. You know, like, Okay, what

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Speaker 1: are some different ways that you can think about Say

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Speaker 1: that Beyonce picture. You know, it's not you one. Beyonce

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Speaker 1: is never going to put out a crazy looking picture.

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Speaker 1: You know. There's photography, there's lighting. You know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if there's you know, photoshop or what have you.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there's a lot of factors that go

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Speaker 1: in to that picture. You know. So having the person

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Speaker 1: stop and think about what they're reading or seeing in

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Speaker 1: the media's whether it be social media or magazines or television,

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Speaker 1: what have you, and really stopping and thinking about all

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Speaker 1: the different ways to view that that person or that

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Speaker 1: issue instead of just one way of they look better

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Speaker 1: than me. I mean, I'm going to talk about the

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Speaker 1: Kardashians for a second. You know, one thing I do

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Speaker 1: like about the Kardashians, I do love them, and I

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Speaker 1: will like me, I do watch it. Um. I love

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Speaker 1: that there they don't mind coming out without makeup. You know,

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Speaker 1: they don't mind showing that they're going to all these

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Speaker 1: plastic surgery or laser treatment thing magic ill wraps or

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Speaker 1: laser or what have you. You know that their body

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Speaker 1: is not one hundred percent natural or even the quote

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Speaker 1: unquote diets that they're on, you know, or how much

428
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: they're focusing on exercise and things like that. So in

429
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: order for Kim or Chloe or Courtney, you know, to

430
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: look like that they are showing truly what they go through.

431
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: And then think about their brother Rob. You know, they're

432
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: truly showing what Rob has gone through in terms of

433
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: his weight gain and his depression. You know, I love

434
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: the fact that that they're being open with his depression. Okay,

435
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: so they have to and I don't know, I don't

436
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: know these people, you know, you know, personally, but I

437
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,719
Speaker 1: hope that they are treating the underlying issue, which is

438
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: the depression, not just hey, go to the gym and

439
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: eat this. No, you gotta treat the depression. Yeah. Yeah,

440
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: And do you think that that is often missed? Like

441
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: do you think that sometimes we get so focused on

442
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, like trying to get our body in shape

443
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: or whatever, that we miss an underlying like depression or

444
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: anxiety or something else. Oh yes, absolutely. You know again

445
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: because before and maybe before I got my PhD, I

446
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: don't think I knew anything much about depression or anxiety

447
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: or the symptoms or what have you. Or even I

448
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: didn't think about family genetics and what my aunt may

449
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: have had or my grant. You know, I didn't think

450
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: about that kind of stuff. And now when I look

451
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: back and say, oh, you know what that was depression?

452
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: Oh you know what, that person that cousin has panic attacks,

453
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I didn't stop to

454
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: think about this, and before I became a psychologist, you know,

455
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: so I think it can be very easily missed that oh,

456
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: my gosh, these are the symptoms of blah blah blah.

457
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah. So you mentioned, um, like some of

458
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: the negative self talk that someone may have. But do

459
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: you have ideas about UM, how we can begin to

460
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: change our own conversations with each other around UM like

461
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: body image kinds of stuff like you mentioned like okay

462
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: when you I know, for me, um, like when you

463
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: come home from college and people are saying like, oh,

464
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: you really did put on their freshman fifteen. You know,

465
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: you know that all of these conversations that you get

466
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: when you go home with family are just in print circles.

467
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: You have ideas about UM, like how we can change

468
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: some of those conversations, and ideas about you know, things

469
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,479
Speaker 1: we can do to be gentler with each other around

470
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: those issues. Sure, I mean, we really do need to

471
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: empower each other and lift each other up. Um. You know,

472
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: And I have told I've taught my clients how to

473
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: be assertive with that person who says, oh, you just

474
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: certainly gained the freshman fifteen. And what you can say

475
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: back to that person in that start of manner, not aggressive,

476
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,239
Speaker 1: you know, not pussing out the person, but you know

477
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: what you could say back to that person to sort

478
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: of let that person know that it's okay and I'm

479
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: not going to focus on my body, you know, and

480
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: even say say something around the lines that you know

481
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: it really sucks that that's what you're focusing on. You know,

482
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: it's my body. So um, yeah, definitely treat teaching assertiveness skills,

483
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: empowering my clients, or just telling folks in general to

484
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: be kind to each other. You know, Oftentimes there may

485
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: be an underlying issue there. So it's not just about oh,

486
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: they ate too much and gained fifteen pounds, which it

487
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: might be that, but you know, stress, I mean, homesickness,

488
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: being away from home, you know, adjusting to a new environment.

489
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: I mean, take all of that stuff unto consideration, or

490
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: just eating different foods you're not you know, eating cafeteria

491
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: foods all the time or stuff. I know, I have

492
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: a college student that his dinner oftentimes comes out of

493
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: the vending machine because the cafeteria is already closed, you know,

494
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: and and they stay up until to three am studying.

495
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 1: So yeah, they go to the vending machine nine ten, eleven,

496
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: twelve o'clock at night and get quote unquote dinner. You know.

497
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: And so you know, just really beating compassionate time and

498
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: knowing that it's it's you could really be pushing buttons.

499
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that there's that this could cause

500
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: and eating disorder, but being made fun of is oftentimes

501
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: something that my clients say kind of sent them over

502
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: the top, over the edge, you know, being made fun

503
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: of by family members or friends or a boyfriend, girlfriend,

504
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: what have you. So, yeah, so, what are some tips

505
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: maybe that you have for our listeners who be who

506
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: may be struggling with some challenges. What tips would you

507
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: have for them? You know, be honest with yourself. You know,

508
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: really think about how much time each day do I

509
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: spend focusing on how my body looks for the scale?

510
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: How often do I weigh myself? Um? Do I typically

511
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: have a lot of I getive talk around my body

512
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: and food? Um? Also in terms of the relationship with food,

513
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: do I truly have a healthy relationship with food? Do

514
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: I have a all or nothing way of thinking about food? Um?

515
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: Or diet mentality with food? And you know, if you

516
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: have any of these things, you can check in again,

517
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: check in with a therapist who specializes in treating needing

518
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: disorders and see is this something that really should be

519
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: that is a concern. And the sooner you do this,

520
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: the better. It's better to kind of you know, address

521
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,719
Speaker 1: this sooner rather than later. You don't want to address

522
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: it when it's time to go to an inpatient treatment program,

523
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: that's not the time to come in first when you realize,

524
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: you know what, I really don't have the best relationship

525
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: with my body or food. I gotta be honest in

526
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: any particular resources that you really like, um, you know,

527
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: to kind of either offer to your clients or like

528
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: a beginner's ideas about like eating disorders. Yeah. Actually, there

529
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: is a book out that the only book I've come across,

530
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: and I've actually spoken to this author. There is a

531
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: book call Not All Black Girls Know How to Eat? Again, Yes,

532
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: Not All Black Girls Know how to Eat. It's written

533
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: by Stephanie Covington Armstrong against Stephanie Covington Armstrong, and she's

534
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: a woman. She lives in in California, and she has

535
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: written this book and been very open, very very vulnerable

536
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: and transparent about her her bulimia. So I am. I'm

537
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: very happy that Stephanie has written this book, and she

538
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: also does public appearances speaking engagements as well. But honestly,

539
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: that's the only book that's written by a black woman

540
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: or or a black person about their eating disorder. Um,

541
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: you know. I I even searched podcasts and I found

542
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: only one podcast, but guess what, it's no longer available.

543
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: Somebody had one from two thousand fifteen, but it's no

544
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: longer available. But in terms of just general information, UM,

545
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: I would recommend a website called NITA an E d

546
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: A and the website is National Eating Disorders dot org

547
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: again National Eating Disorders dot org. And I am the

548
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: founding president of the Atlanta chapter for the International Association

549
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: of Eating Disorders Professionals and the website for that chapter

550
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: for those in in the Atlanta area is Atlanta dot

551
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: com again Atlanta I A E DP dot com. And

552
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 1: the main foundation, the IDEP Foundation is for folks who

553
00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: are outside of Georgia is I A E. DEAs and

554
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: dog peas and Paul dot com. And if you go

555
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: to these websites, UM you can find UH therapist, dietitians, physicians, psychiatrists,

556
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: all treatment professionals who are truly eating disorder professionals. I

557
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: strongly discourage people going to someone who does not specialize

558
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: in treating eating disorders. It'll be a waste of your

559
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: time and money because this is a very it's it's

560
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: a specialty area. Like I don't specialize in a d

561
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: h D. You'll be wasting your money in time if

562
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: you come to me to address your A, d H

563
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: D issues, I just you know, so make sure that

564
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: you know the person is to specialize. Another one, another

565
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: organization that's here in the Atlanta area is EDEN, and

566
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: the website is my Eating dot org. And that's m

567
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: y E. DEAs and dog I and as in Nancy

568
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: dot org. And EDEN is a wonderful organization that does

569
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: a lot of UM community outreach around eating disorders and

570
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: um uh you know, I volunteer with that organization as well.

571
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, those are the main ones I would recommend.

572
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: But actually, you know, there's a there's a resource called

573
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: Girls Magazine and then the website is g you are

574
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: ze as and Zebra e books dot com. So that's

575
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: Girls Books dot com and you can subscribe free to

576
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: get the resource guide. What I love about this resource

577
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: guide it lists all the types of books or videos,

578
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: um manuals, what have you, and it will separate them

579
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: into different areas such as anorexia, bulimia, binge, eating books

580
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: for professionals, books for parents or loved ones, you know,

581
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: things like that. So um folks may want to visit

582
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: that website as well. Any I can give them my website. Yeah, yeah, okay, um,

583
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: the name of my practice is New Directions Counseling Center

584
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: and the website is New Directions Atlanta dot com. Again,

585
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: that's New Directions with an s at the n Atlanta

586
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: dot com. And we do have some resources. There's an

587
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: area on our website that you can click on for

588
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: for resources UM. And then you can also see a

589
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: list of all of our providers. And I am a

590
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: certified Eating Disorder specialist so UM. I became certified a

591
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: few I was the first psychologists actually in Atlanta to

592
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: be certified so UM. And then we also have a dietitian. J. C.

593
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 1: Pitts is a registered dietitian who treats eating disorders or

594
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: all eating issues. She's also does pediatric nutrition as well.

595
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: So she's in our office and we're lucky to have

596
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: her because then we can see two people on the

597
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: same location. A right, you know? So yeah, okay, perfect. Well,

598
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: all of the resources that you mentioned definitely will be

599
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: included in the show notes, So you can definitely look

600
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: at the show notes for all of the websites that

601
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: Judy Lee mentioned. And are there any social media handles

602
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: or anything that you would like to add, I'll be honest,

603
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: I mean new Directions Hound and Center does have a

604
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: Facebook page, but I don't know when the last time

605
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: anything you've been updated on. Okay, that's just your website, yes, okay, okay, Well,

606
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: thank you so much for chatting with us today, Judie Lee,

607
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. You're welcome. Thank you again. So,

608
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: Dr Webb definitely shared a wealth of information with us,

609
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: and I do hope that you will check out the

610
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: resources that she shared. Make sure to find all of

611
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: that in the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls

612
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: dot Com slash Session seventeen. If you're interested in continuing

613
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: the conversation with other women who were fans of the show,

614
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: make sure to join us over in the Facebook group.

615
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: You can find that at Therapy for Black Girls dot

616
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: Com backslash tribe, and make sure to let us know

617
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 1: what you're thinking on social media use the hashtag tb

618
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: G in session. You can find us on Twitter at

619
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: Therapy for the Number four be Girls, and you can

620
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram and Facebook at Therapy for Black Girls.

621
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 1: And if you have heard anything in this session or

622
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: in the previous session that you'd like to work through,

623
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: with the therapist. Make sure to check out our therapist

624
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 1: directory at Therapy for black Girls dot com backslash directory.

625
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to continuing this conversation with you all

626
00:38:36,719 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: real soon. Take get care. I doctor doctor, I actor

627
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: doctor fact