1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 2: So, David Bondman, it's amazing to read about his impact 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: on the broader investment world. He is a one of 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: the best known names, one of the icons. You knew 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: him better than anybody in this business. What specifically did 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: he bring to this business that was unique to him? 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: David really is a legend in the industry. But he's 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: a legend for several reasons, and I think there's three 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: particular things. First of all, he pioneered a type of investing. Secondly, 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: he built a firm that had a distinctive place in 11 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: the industry. And thirty had a really interesting personal style 12 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: that I think helped evolve the style of this industry. 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: And So what did he do, how did that work 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: in practice? 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: What was he doing as a deal maker that really 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: set him apart? 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: David did deal making as problem solving. So if you 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: think about some of his signature deals, they were deals 19 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: that everyone saw but no one else was willing to 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: take on. And it wasn't that he was taking on 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: more risk, it was that he saw something different. Take 22 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: the Continental Airlines deal, a legendary deal in the industry, 23 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: the most hated company in America, the biggest bankruptcy in 24 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: US history had sat there for two years. Dave and 25 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: I put together a deal that carved out a new 26 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: continental and took it from worse to first in seven years. 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: It was Warren Buffett said that airlines were financial sinkholes. 28 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: David over and over made successful investments in airlines. When 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: others saw the SNL crisis, David saw the SNL opportunity. 30 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: We created the good bank bad bank structure for American 31 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: savings when working with Bess, and then we exported that 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: structure around the world to do bank rescues in China, 33 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: in Korea, again deals that no one else did, and 34 00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: that a problem solving approach really appeared a moment that 35 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: the industry was mostly about changing capital structures, not companies. 36 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: All right, So you said something to me before we 37 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: came on air which I found fascinating, which is that 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: David was a polymath investor. The Blueberg audience is pretty smart, 39 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: but you need to break this down what that actually 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 2: means in practice. 41 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: Poly Math is from the Greek and it's basically a 42 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: person who has broad and diverse interests but uses that 43 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: knowledge and interest to solve problems and So David really 44 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: didn't come to investing until his forties. Yeah, think about that. 45 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: He had several careers before he was a litigator. He 46 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: was argued in front of the Supreme Court. He taught 47 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: law Tulane, he studied Islamic law on Tunis. This was 48 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: a person that never took a finance class, didn't know accounting, 49 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: and yet he brought that broad experience and problem solving 50 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: expertise to the problems of investing. And his ability to 51 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 1: use different experiences he had to solve problems I think 52 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: really created his style, and it's a polymass style. It 53 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: was not one thing. It was a unique ability to 54 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 1: see opportunity and frankly solve problems well. 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 2: And it translated into him being, I have to say, 56 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: one of those eclectic, maybe eccentric sort of figures in 57 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: an industry that didn't always certainly the broader Wall Street 58 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: doesn't always sort of embrace change. 59 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: So how was he received in this broader Wall Street world? 60 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: In your estimation, David was many things, but he was 61 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: never boring. We used to laugh that David often brought 62 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: like a rock and roll backbeat into rooms that were 63 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: used to classical music. It was a very different style. 64 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: He was known for his ridiculous socks. I mean they 65 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: were just ridiculous. When others were drinking fine wine, he 66 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: was drinking diet coke. He's flew one thousand hours a 67 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: year to meetings anywhere. It's a very personal thing for him. 68 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: And his style was informal, it was direct. He couldn't 69 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: stand obfuscation. And that style was sort of a different 70 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: a different wind in the industry at the time, and 71 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: it opened up the opportunity for different types of styles 72 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: to really flourish. It's an industry that had incredible talent 73 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: among its founding brethren, but David brought I think a 74 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: little bit of a different attitude and frankly, you know, 75 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: a lot of fun into a very serious business. And 76 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: so how do you be able to firm around that? 77 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: I mean that you can be sort of a you know, 78 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: sort of an iconoclast as a single person. 79 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: You know, maybe as a small firm. 80 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: You guys started out as three people in ninety two, 81 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: ninety three, but now thousands of employees, quarter trillion dollars 82 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 2: in assets. How does that sort of grow into something 83 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: this big. 84 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: I've been doing this long time. Culture and curiosity, so 85 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: in some ways, what we described you and I about 86 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: David became how you would describe PPG in some ways. 87 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: At a time that the industry was very much about finance, 88 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: was very much focused in New York. We came out 89 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: of a family off in Texas. We set up on 90 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: the West Coast. I used to say that when you 91 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: do sports a lot, Jason, that we were playing the 92 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: same game, but differently. We were the West Coast offense 93 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: of private equity. And to do that you have to 94 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: get a culture of curiosity and problem solving. And I 95 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: think at the first fundraise we did for TPG, our 96 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: tagline was contrarianism, complexity, and change. At a time the 97 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: industry was more focused on franchise businesses and finance. Contrarianism, complexity, 98 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: and change. And I think those lines of problem solving 99 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: and a different approach really were what David brought to 100 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: the business in the early days. 101 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: Not afraid to take big swings, I mean, was that 102 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: but part of his ethos do you think, like being 103 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: able to really go big on something. 104 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: It was never about ego or size. It was about 105 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: really interesting problems and sometimes we got it wrong. Yeah, 106 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: if you're doing this type of investing. You know, five 107 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: percent of the time you'll make mistakes, and probably you 108 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: should be making that sort of risk. But the key 109 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: is never make the same mistakes if you can help it, 110 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: and importantly learn from all of them. And David and 111 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: I think our firm has been a lifelong learner on those. 112 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: So I think somehow we've been able to grow with 113 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: the industry but still keep some of that essence of 114 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: doing it a little differently and looking at new deals. 115 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: I mean even today, as you know, Jason, we've taken 116 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: on impact investing, climate investing. These are new things, new problems, 117 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: done in a new way, and that ethos I think 118 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: was what we started with almost forty years ago, and 119 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: we've tried to very much guard today. 120 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: How did you build a partnership with him? You guys 121 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: are not the same You showed up in Texas? You know, 122 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: Dartmouth undergrad, Stanford Business School, He was a University of 123 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: Washington bankruptcy lawyer, save Grand Central. How does that marriage 124 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 2: of a sort happen? 125 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: I think there's two types of partnerships. One are people 126 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: who are very much the same, almost can complete each 127 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: other's senses. The other type of partnership are people who 128 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: are very different but share the same values. And I 129 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: think David and I brought different skill sets, different views 130 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: of the world, but values on fairness, the idea of 131 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: you can leave the last cent on the table to 132 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: create a win win, and we agreed on the type 133 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: of firm and culture we wanted to build, so complimented 134 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: each other, respected each other, but also brought some balance 135 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: to the equation. 136 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: How do you think he changed you as an investor 137 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: and as an executive. 138 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: I think David was, as well as being a great investor, 139 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: simply a great business person. You know, he served on 140 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 1: eighty different corporate boards. Who does that? Eighty different corporate boards, 141 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: from GM to Dakati, from Behringer to Burger King. Immensely diverse, 142 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: and that viewpoint, something that was often underestimated with David, 143 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: really helped me be a better businessman. It's about being straightforward, 144 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: about seeing different things. It's about patients from time to time, 145 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: and even when things go wrong, you don't step back, 146 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: you step in. So I think his polymath skills really 147 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: extended into the business world. 148 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: All right, I mentioned earlier this is a massive, massive 149 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: industry at this point that what we used to call 150 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: private equity, it's now alternative investing. These firms, including yours, 151 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: are doing lots of different things. 152 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: How do you take that Bonderman. 153 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: Ethos, you know, the sort of like you know he's 154 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: calling into an investment committee, meaning from Tim buck to 155 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: to you know, now a publicly traded company. How do 156 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: you maintain that essence? Because I know that culture is 157 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: something that's important to you, you study it, how do 158 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: you really institutionalize that culture fight conformity. 159 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: In all ways? I think if you were starting this 160 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: business today, sometimes I think the people who are looking 161 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: at it feel they have to learn finance in their 162 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: crip and have to go through internships. David came to this, 163 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: as I said before ines, he brought that wide set 164 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: of experiences, and I think the understanding that you can 165 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: ask different questions, approach problems in different ways is something 166 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: the industry needs to say true to today. So that spirit, 167 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: the spirit of problem solving, curiosity, a little bit of 168 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: courage put together with a broad view, is something the 169 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: industry still needs to say. And I think the industry 170 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: is delivering that immense talent in the industry. We have 171 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: to just make sure that it's not delivered in one Way. 172 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: And so as he sort of kind of moved on 173 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: from the firm, and we'll talk a little bit about 174 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: what he was doing in the latter years of his life. 175 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: You know, how did you know, how did you sort 176 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: of honor his legacy? 177 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: How did he stay involved? Well, David always had broad 178 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 1: interests and one of the interesting things about his career 179 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: is he's mentored and spawned many businesses and helped many businesses, 180 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: from Mark Lazari to Tom Barrick to Mark's Stad to 181 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: Way Jan Sean. There are disciples around the industry that 182 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: have picked up some of his investing style in ethos 183 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: and he continued to do that as he continued to 184 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: have a TPG as a cornerstone. But he went on, 185 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: as you know, to be active in sports. And yes 186 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: he had been an investor in the Celtics, but he 187 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 1: did a typical Bondo thing. By the way, just the 188 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: nickname Bondo was different in the industry. He did a 189 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: typical Bondo thing, which is he took on a problem 190 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: no one else would bringing back a team indoors in Seattle, 191 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: rebuilt an arena where he had worked as a security 192 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: guard when he was an undergrad at university of Washington, 193 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: and we were listening there to TPG founding partner James 194 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: Coulter reflecting on the life and legacy of his business 195 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: partner David Bonderman, a legend in the world of private equity, 196 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: who passed away yesterday at the age of eighty two.