Speaker 1: Let's do that thing where you have to sing the
Speaker 1: song together looking at each other's mouths. Who's leading and
Speaker 1: who's following? You lead and I'll follow.
Speaker 2: Evening, everyone, Welcome to Midnight Chat's the music interview podcast.
Speaker 2: My name is Greg Cochrane. I'm Stuart Stubbs and on
Speaker 2: this week's podcast, Stu, you got to speak with someone
Speaker 2: and sing with someone. Yeah, thankfully this is the first
Speaker 2: episode and probably the last episode in which you'll hear
Speaker 2: me sing tell me about Anna, because listen, I don't
Speaker 2: know Anna's work that well. So Anna is a relatively
Speaker 2: new artist. She's from North London. She's released two albums
Speaker 2: to date. Last year was our second album in Flux.
Speaker 2: We were talking in November early November twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: and in this conversation you'll actually hear me reveal to
Speaker 2: Anna where she is on our Albums of the Year list.
Speaker 2: So that's a little bit of context. We were just
Speaker 2: dealing with, like what was our top forty going to be?
Speaker 2: Anna's album in Flux was on that list. Her previous
Speaker 2: album was called A Common Turn, another beautiful record. Anna's
Speaker 2: music I think if I was to describe it would
Speaker 2: be it's very raw. It's very confessional, plays the guitar beautifully,
Speaker 2: sings very very beautifully, and it's very emotional music. And
Speaker 2: you hear it and you sort of think, oh, maybe
Speaker 2: this person is going to be quite an intense interview,
Speaker 2: but she's not. I've met Anna a few times and
Speaker 2: she's such a good laugh and I think we had
Speaker 2: a good time together recording this. We'll talk about Killian Murphy.
Speaker 2: She met Killian Murphy last year. It's a very free
Speaker 2: wheeling conversation. This it's exactly sort of what I've always
Speaker 2: hoped Midnight Chats to be, and it was made a
Speaker 2: little easier because Anna's very good at this. I want
Speaker 2: to hear you singing, stew I've been waiting a long
Speaker 2: time for this. Here is Anna be Savage on tonight's
Speaker 2: episode of Midnight Chats. Hello, Anna, Hello, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2: Anna B. Savage's it's a hell of a name.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: It's good, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? It's pretty good.
Speaker 2: You pleased with it?
Speaker 1: I am?
Speaker 2: Yeah. You get a lot of people asking about the bee.
Speaker 1: I do, yeah. I also yeah, I get a lot
Speaker 1: of people not really believing that it's my actual name.
Speaker 1: I get people congratulating me.
Speaker 2: A lot like I just did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like passport control, they're like, oh sick.
Speaker 2: So people are thinking it must be a stage name. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's it's the Savage.
Speaker 1: It's good, it's too good.
Speaker 2: It's the Savage.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The BEE, of course stands.
Speaker 1: For Brian, Brian famously.
Speaker 2: Is it common knowledge what the BEE stands for?
Speaker 1: It is not.
Speaker 2: Let's keep it that way. I when I was at school,
Speaker 2: when I was a child, my mum had all of
Speaker 2: these little tags, these little ribbons that said Stuart M.
Speaker 2: Stubbs that she'd put in all of my clothes. My
Speaker 2: brother had Peter K. Stubbs.
Speaker 1: Not as good, I don't think, But Peter K is
Speaker 1: quite fun.
Speaker 2: That's quite fun. This was pre Peter K. Yeah. Sadly.
Speaker 2: People in my cast, when they would ask what the
Speaker 2: M stood for, I would always say Maurice. Oh, which
Speaker 2: it isn't. That's not what the M stands for. Well,
Speaker 2: that's fun, But I just thought it was more interesting
Speaker 2: than what the M does stand for.
Speaker 1: This is that's kind of the exact opposite problem that
Speaker 1: I have, which is that I have zero imagination, so
Speaker 1: I couldn't come up with a name for my artist
Speaker 1: version of me. So you just put the I just
Speaker 1: put my actual initial in the middle.
Speaker 2: Did you what made you not just go for Anna Savage?
Speaker 2: Because I mean, the bee is making it, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? The B makes it.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a fun pun for a start. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is my actual initial, and I don't know Anna.
Speaker 1: I am Anna Savage like I've been Anna Savage since
Speaker 1: I was little. I needed some differentiation between me and my.
Speaker 2: Person Yesterday I went to a fancy screening of a
Speaker 2: movie that's not out yet. Okay about the darkness no way? Yeah,
Speaker 2: darkness fan.
Speaker 1: Yes obviously. Can you see the glee in my face?
Speaker 1: And here it's in my voice?
Speaker 2: You know, it's like the Darkness. I mean. The reason
Speaker 2: I've mentioned that is because what you were just saying
Speaker 2: about personas is really good film. By the way, I
Speaker 2: can't rate it rate it enough. It's called Welcome to
Speaker 2: the Darkness. I don't know when it's out.
Speaker 1: It's a documentary.
Speaker 2: It's a documentary. It's it's their spinal tap and it's
Speaker 2: very spark tap obviously, but Justin Hawkins talks in it
Speaker 2: about his persona and how he became quote unquote Justin
Speaker 2: Hawkins even though that's his real name, and he talks
Speaker 2: about how, you know, his drug addiction was essentially him
Speaker 2: method acting his way into being a rock star.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that I feel like that would be
Speaker 1: a real danger if if you do use completely your
Speaker 1: real name, like mine's still very very close to my
Speaker 1: real name, Like my family will be like, oh, Anabe
Speaker 1: Savage is here.
Speaker 2: You know do they find it amusing?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that you have that tiny differentiation is enough
Speaker 1: to be like, I think I'm saved as Annabe Savage
Speaker 1: in my sister's phone and stuff. But yeah, I can
Speaker 1: totally see how that would especially if you're so successful,
Speaker 1: like the Darkness and it just kind of comes out
Speaker 1: of well, not nowhere, but like comes very quickly. There
Speaker 1: would be you know, moments where it's like, wait, does
Speaker 1: this real me?
Speaker 2: Or so you're do you feel that you put on
Speaker 2: a persona at what points, like when you're on stage?
Speaker 1: Well, this is also the funny, naughty, difficult thing. It
Speaker 1: is that I feel like the music I write is
Speaker 1: so kind of exposing, and I try and be so
Speaker 1: emotionally honest that it would be weird if I then
Speaker 1: put on a persona to like perform them. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I guess it's like a tiny bit of it's like
Speaker 1: just to give me that tiny bit of wiggle room.
Speaker 1: I think that when I when I perform, I definitely
Speaker 1: recently have become more myself, which is really nice. I
Speaker 1: think in the past I used to try different things
Speaker 1: out because I was quite nervous, whereas now I can
Speaker 1: add in the kind of like goofiness and silliness of
Speaker 1: me and not feel like it's too difficult to pair
Speaker 1: with the music, I guess, Whereas in the past I
Speaker 1: was just like absolutely bringing it all the time, so
Speaker 1: I just needed something to feel like I was in control.
Speaker 2: Sure, Well, this like, so we've we've spoken a fair
Speaker 2: few times. I'd say we know each other close friends.
Speaker 1: I would say we're friends.
Speaker 2: One thing I don't think we've ever spoken about, but this,
Speaker 2: this is the origin story that I have heard. I
Speaker 2: think about your music, okay, and you can tell me
Speaker 2: if it's correct or not. Am I right in thinking?
Speaker 2: There was a time where you started releasing music and
Speaker 2: you went on a tour with father John Misty and
Speaker 2: things were looking things were going well, and then you
Speaker 2: decided I don't want to do this right now, I'm
Speaker 2: not ready for this right now. Is there any truth
Speaker 2: in that?
Speaker 1: It's adjacent to the truth, Okay for sure. So I yeah,
Speaker 1: released music I think it was like twenty fourteen, twenty
Speaker 1: fifteen ish, and people seemed to like it, and then
Speaker 1: I got asked, I know, and then I got asked
Speaker 1: to go on this tour with father John Misty, which
Speaker 1: was obviously absolutely dreamy. Can I swear on this there's
Speaker 1: been okay, cool, There's been a couple of instances where I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, no, go for it, that's fine.
Speaker 1: It was fucking dreamy and went on this.
Speaker 2: Tour dreamy guy, very dreamy guy, very dreamy.
Speaker 1: Guy, like a total sweetheart. I really he was so
Speaker 1: kind to me that whole tour and so generous and yeah,
Speaker 1: big love for Josh. I found myself then being like, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: I need to write this wave because famously the music
Speaker 1: industry is quite fickle and they want you.
Speaker 2: To watch the Darkness documentary.
Speaker 1: Okay, yes, and yeah, I want you to create stuff
Speaker 1: a lot and be putting stuff out a lot. And
Speaker 1: I was quite a low ebb at that point in
Speaker 1: my kind of personal life, so I wouldn't say it
Speaker 1: was a decision to step away from the industry. It
Speaker 1: was more like a crushing lack of self confidence and
Speaker 1: load of self loathing that kind of stopped me from
Speaker 1: actually writing anything because I had this weird like duel
Speaker 1: thing in my head where I was like, either I
Speaker 1: really lucked out and managed to convince everyone that that
Speaker 1: was good, but I can never create anything again, or
Speaker 1: everyone's like playing this trick on me, and you know,
Speaker 1: just like classic low self confidence stuff. So I didn't
Speaker 1: write anything, and I couldn't write anything I was trying to,
Speaker 1: and everyone kept being like, this is your one chance.
Speaker 1: If you don't take this, then you're not going to
Speaker 1: be able to do music, which obviously is super helpful
Speaker 1: when you're feeling the pressure. And so yeah, basically that happened,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't get anything out. And then one by one,
Speaker 1: all the people that I knew in the industry kind
Speaker 1: of disappeared or left or went to a different industry
Speaker 1: or except for my wonderful booking agent, and I was
Speaker 1: a bit like, oh, okay, well, now I don't have
Speaker 1: any pressure and I've got myself out of this like
Speaker 1: bad personal scenario and I've kind of built my I
Speaker 1: guess like built my confidence, built my personality back up.
Speaker 1: I'm going to try writing a fucking album. So I
Speaker 1: wrote this album with zero pressure, zero interest, zero anything
Speaker 1: really and then had it and then didn't they what
Speaker 1: to do. So just kind of like, you know, did
Speaker 1: stuff at the same time, but not really any music stuff.
Speaker 1: And then I went on a music residency in Canada
Speaker 1: and I started kind of tentatively playing it to these
Speaker 1: people who I just like, I hadn't known them before,
Speaker 1: but I admired them all so much that incredible musicians,
Speaker 1: incredible creators, creatives, and they were like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: fucking good, Like you should do something with this. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, OK, maybe I will. So I came
Speaker 1: home after this and spent all my savings paying my
Speaker 1: producer Will Doyle to record the album with me, and
Speaker 1: then had the album and then I had to start
Speaker 1: like sending out to people being like, hello, do you
Speaker 1: remember me from me five years ago?
Speaker 2: But did you find that point at that point did
Speaker 2: that sort of pressure kick back in once you were
Speaker 2: like had the thing to sell it or had it
Speaker 2: gone because you'd created the thing?
Speaker 1: It had gone because I created the thing. I just
Speaker 1: felt so tough to myself. I genuinely was like beside
Speaker 1: myself with glee at the fact that I had managed
Speaker 1: to complete this thing which had previously seemed completely unfathomable
Speaker 1: to me, like insurmountable. Didn't know how anyone would write
Speaker 1: an album, And.
Speaker 2: Now you've written two in flux released earlier this year. Correct,
Speaker 2: How's twenty twenty three B twenty.
Speaker 1: Twenty three has been actually quite hard?
Speaker 2: Has it?
Speaker 1: Just like personal stuff?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: But professionally it's been good?
Speaker 2: I think it is a serious question. Oh well, I
Speaker 2: guess it's serious. Yeah, is do you when you release
Speaker 2: a record like that or any record, do you have
Speaker 2: you personally? What is your barometer of success for you? Like?
Speaker 1: Oh, a serious question that makes me sound entirely unhinged. Great,
Speaker 1: I well, you have like you have like your your
Speaker 1: hopes for it, and then you have like your hopes
Speaker 1: for it, so like you know, the hopes are like,
Speaker 1: I hope I can get to make another album. I
Speaker 1: hope this one like touches people in a similarish way
Speaker 1: than the first one did. I hope people like it
Speaker 1: as much as people seem to like the first one.
Speaker 1: And then there's like to win the Mercury breads film
Speaker 1: all the money.
Speaker 2: That's good. That should be in your mind. Though in
Speaker 2: a way, right, I think.
Speaker 1: So it makes things very disappointing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember Orlando Weeks. Do you have me met Orlando?
Speaker 1: I haven't met him.
Speaker 2: No, Lovely ma'am came on the podcast and he I
Speaker 2: don't know if it was actually in the recording or
Speaker 2: afterward finished, but he was saying to him, success is
Speaker 2: I think I was probably moaning about something afterwards, and
Speaker 2: he was saying, like, success to him is just being
Speaker 2: able to make the next thing. If the thing that
Speaker 2: he makes, whatever that is, allows him to make another one,
Speaker 2: then it's all good and that's the goal. And then
Speaker 2: the success of that one will be to carry on
Speaker 2: doing the thing totally. Anything to stop you having to
Speaker 2: get a real job, I guess is another way of
Speaker 2: saying that, right. But I also think it's natural for
Speaker 2: you to want to win the Mercury. I want to,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah whatever, have those sort of plaudits, because
Speaker 2: I think that's sort of just quite a natural part
Speaker 2: of being a performer totally an artist and a creative.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that well for me, and perhaps
Speaker 1: this is my super naive not having got close to
Speaker 1: any of those things at all. View But like with
Speaker 1: those things for me would come money, I think, which
Speaker 1: then affords me the opportunity to make stuff again in
Speaker 1: the future, because there's this, like, you know, they're really
Speaker 1: it does feel like you're on the edge of a
Speaker 1: precipice all the time trying to be a creative and
Speaker 1: it is like, I do think it's miraculous that this
Speaker 1: is my job. Like it's wild to me that I,
Speaker 1: you know, get by doing this just about and it
Speaker 1: feels like an imense privilege being able to just express myself.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've listened to enough celebrity podcasts to know
Speaker 1: that when you win the prizes, it doesn't feel the
Speaker 1: same way as you think it will feel when you
Speaker 1: want to win the prizes. Yeah, yeah, but I think
Speaker 1: there's that that mix of yeah, potentially getting welcomed into
Speaker 1: the club to be like, maybe now you have enough
Speaker 1: gravitas behind you to be able to sustain this for
Speaker 1: that little bit longer, you know. I feel like this year,
Speaker 1: I've complained a lot about money because it feels quite
Speaker 1: scary being trying to go on tour and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, And I've complained to my therapist about it,
Speaker 1: probably more more than I should have done, and at
Speaker 1: a certain point she said, I mean, it's so good
Speaker 1: that someone can be this honest with me and really
Speaker 1: just hit the nail on the head. She basically said
Speaker 1: to me. She was like, you know that the way
Speaker 1: that you write music and the kind of music you're writing,
Speaker 1: you're only writing to express yourself. You're not writing to
Speaker 1: make money. You're not writing like you know, pop bangers
Speaker 1: or whatever. So it's really funny that you should expect
Speaker 1: to make loads of cash and like feel financially confident
Speaker 1: when all you're doing is being like, this is my
Speaker 1: emotions and this is my heart and this is how
Speaker 1: I feel like. It's you know, that's an anomaly when
Speaker 1: that happens, when those two things overlap.
Speaker 2: That's Radiohead.
Speaker 1: That's exactly my example that I always use.
Speaker 2: That's my go to thing.
Speaker 1: And that was really fun because she kind of said
Speaker 1: that to me and I was like, huh, that's completely accurate.
Speaker 2: You have earned your money.
Speaker 1: She's so great though, she doesn't let me get away
Speaker 1: with any of my ship any more more money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, change what you're working through exactly.
Speaker 2: How about end of year lists? Is that something you
Speaker 2: will be paying attention to? Do you ignore that stuff?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's always nice, isn't it if you end
Speaker 1: up on an end of year list? Weirdly, I don't.
Speaker 1: I haven't hadn't even kind of hadn't remembered that my
Speaker 1: album came out of this year.
Speaker 2: It's going to be a surprise cycle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I feel like the cycle for me feels
Speaker 1: like it's finished at the moment, so it'll be fun
Speaker 1: if it does turn up on anyone's end of your list.
Speaker 1: Oh yea, it's November.
Speaker 2: It's November. It's happening. We're currently putting ours together at
Speaker 2: the magazine. It's on the list. Oh f in flux?
Speaker 2: Do you want to know where it is on the list? Yes,
Speaker 2: because this podcast is going to come out. The list
Speaker 2: will be out by the time this goes out. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, So we have a top forty?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Where do you think you'd be on the list?
Speaker 1: Forty?
Speaker 2: No? No, you're higher? Are you ready join me? Say?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Number three?
Speaker 1: Are you fucking serious?
Speaker 2: Pretty good? Pretty good on the list?
Speaker 1: That's fucking up.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you're gonna be on a lot of
Speaker 2: lists though.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: That's not bad? Is it? Number three?
Speaker 1: Fucking great?
Speaker 2: Shall I let you know who's who's Who's whose?
Speaker 1: Number?
Speaker 2: Who's beaten you? Number one is Lankham legit? And number
Speaker 2: two oh we can circle back to Lancam in a second.
Speaker 2: Actually put a pinion Lancam for a second. Number two
Speaker 2: is Danny Brown and Jpeg Mafia. Oh they did like
Speaker 2: a collab album.
Speaker 1: Okay, then it's you La Force on your top forty
Speaker 1: unbelievably good album. If you haven't listened to it.
Speaker 2: I don't think I have skeleton, Okay, I mean things
Speaker 2: could change. I can listen to that, could put that
Speaker 2: number three maybe, yeah, that sounds good. Then just moving back.
Speaker 1: To forty, that's amazing. Is that why I'm getting interviewed?
Speaker 2: No? No, You're just You're You're just, you know, always
Speaker 2: a allowed and quite fixture. I feel, and I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, I thought I may as well tell you
Speaker 2: where you are. It's tricky, isn't it? Because I feel
Speaker 2: you've taken this news very well, fucking Jeff, because you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's but also like I am personally
Speaker 2: am really bad at taking anything any good news. I
Speaker 2: think I'm worse at good news, like how you are
Speaker 2: opening a present at Christmas? Oh awful, and like people
Speaker 2: are watching you, people like.
Speaker 1: I cannot hide my real emotion from my face, Like
Speaker 1: it will just show up on my face.
Speaker 2: Oh that's good though, so like because I'm my issue
Speaker 2: is if someone buys me a gift that is lovely
Speaker 2: and I love it and it's the best thing. It's
Speaker 2: a ferrari. It's what matter what it is? Number one,
Speaker 2: couldn't matter what it is because I'm a ten year
Speaker 2: old constantly whatever it is, I can't EXPI I'm like
Speaker 2: this sort of just this Mannikin. We went to stay
Speaker 2: with a friend for Christmas one the one time I've
Speaker 2: not been at my family home. I guest for Christmas.
Speaker 2: I was in Australia, if you've heard of that, And
Speaker 2: it was weird because you know, it's very sunny and
Speaker 2: it's like just a different whole from thing going on.
Speaker 2: And I had never met Tristan, our friend Tristan, my
Speaker 2: wife feels friend Tristan, and I'd never met his family before.
Speaker 2: And they did a thing where when they exchange presents,
Speaker 2: they give you a present from like oh, this presence
Speaker 2: for Annah, they give it to you, and then everyone
Speaker 2: just watches you. Oh God, and you unwrap it and
Speaker 2: then you talk about it. Oh yeah, this is another
Speaker 2: thing I'm bad at. Let's say I got you this
Speaker 2: box and you open it and we're all watching it.
Speaker 2: There's a room people watching you open it. Would you
Speaker 2: get it, unwrap it, and then start unpacking it from
Speaker 2: the box, look to look at the thing in the box,
Speaker 2: or would you unwrap it, say oh thanks, it's that microphone,
Speaker 2: put that to one side and think I'm going to
Speaker 2: I'll get it all out later.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that I probably would feel the pressure
Speaker 1: to open it and then open it more, because that
Speaker 1: looks like kill more into it, even if I'm super
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: That is the I think you're correct, And I forget
Speaker 2: that second stage every single time, so it looks like
Speaker 2: I don't really I'm ungrateful because I am next. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: I unwrap it. I just put it there next to
Speaker 2: the box of old ties. As I wrap, I'm wrapped
Speaker 2: before every year I go into Christmas thinking need to
Speaker 2: be better at that. Yeah, and I'm going to my
Speaker 2: brothers in all this Christmas.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get on with your brother in law.
Speaker 2: I do love that I do.
Speaker 1: Do you have to say that because it's a podcast.
Speaker 2: He won't listen to. No one I know listens to this,
Speaker 2: so no, he won't listen to this. But that no
Speaker 2: one we do get on. But that's what I'm going
Speaker 2: to try and do.
Speaker 1: Oh no, but what if it looks really insincere?
Speaker 2: Oh it will? You have been in Ireland recently?
Speaker 1: I have yet.
Speaker 2: I saw a photo of you sat with Killie Murphy.
Speaker 1: That's correct.
Speaker 2: He looked okay one, yeah, explain yourself. Two. In the
Speaker 2: image he looked very enamored with what you were saying.
Speaker 1: So you've seen the good image. There's two images, one
Speaker 1: where he looks like he is barely tolerating me and
Speaker 1: the other one where he's like, oh this is funny. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really fun we had I went to Sounds
Speaker 1: from a Safe Harbor.
Speaker 2: This is his festival, right or he's involved.
Speaker 1: He's involved in it. Yeah, and the guys from a
Speaker 1: lot of yeah, a lot of big dogs in Cork
Speaker 1: this festival. Yeah, this one was in Cork. They've also
Speaker 1: had them in Wisconsin and Berlin. It was an incredible experience.
Speaker 1: It was so you have like a week's residency and
Speaker 1: then the weekend festival and the residency is just all
Speaker 1: of these gigantic, amazing musicians who are you know, unfathomably talented.
Speaker 1: The first day, I was in a room with like
Speaker 1: Caroline Rose and Olive for Arnold's and like some other people,
Speaker 1: and I, oh, god, I jamming is not really my vibe.
Speaker 1: I get really overwhelmed.
Speaker 2: You sort of winced at the word jam. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not my happy place. And I, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just very lack of self confidence in the kind
Speaker 1: of I'm going to show you my prowess on my instrument.
Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds.
Speaker 1: Terrible my guitar. And so I ended up in the
Speaker 1: corner of the room trying to play a glass in
Speaker 1: like a jamming session.
Speaker 2: How did that go down?
Speaker 1: It was great, It was great. I knew where I
Speaker 1: needed to be.
Speaker 2: So what's the what's the deal? Someone says, how does
Speaker 2: this information get to you? Today? You will be playing
Speaker 2: improvised music with this list of people.
Speaker 1: So there's a woman called Mary who organized is the
Speaker 1: whole residency, right. She is a magnificent person, and she
Speaker 1: just kind of gently pushes you towards a room and
Speaker 1: goes go in there. You'll have fun and I And.
Speaker 2: It's the idea that your you're is it being recorded?
Speaker 2: Are you coming up with something that.
Speaker 1: It's totally free from You could just be for that moment,
Speaker 1: just for that moment. You could be making something to
Speaker 1: perform at the end of the week. You could be
Speaker 1: making something to maybe like record it later down the line.
Speaker 1: You could be like, oh, I think we should start
Speaker 1: a band, right, you know, it could be any number
Speaker 1: of things.
Speaker 2: That group of people did you had you met them before? No?
Speaker 1: I hadn't met a single person. Oh no, I'd met
Speaker 1: them before I walked. I'd met Neve before I walked
Speaker 1: in the room. Everyone else i'd kind of seen the
Speaker 1: night before.
Speaker 2: At dinner and they say, right, we're gonna let's let's
Speaker 2: does someone just pick up something? And like Oli forgets
Speaker 2: on the piano. Maybe yeah? And then what you.
Speaker 1: You with me?
Speaker 2: I was going to say, what you you certainly think?
Speaker 2: What leads you to think I'm going to pick up
Speaker 2: that glass?
Speaker 1: No. Caroline Rose, who is a creative genius, was like,
Speaker 1: I think we should play some glasses because there were
Speaker 1: so many glasses in each room. No, I think by
Speaker 1: design so that we could drink water and not have
Speaker 1: to leave the room to get.
Speaker 2: Water, so you're sort of imprisoned slightly.
Speaker 1: They pulled all the curtains down, shut the windows. No,
Speaker 1: it wasn't even that. It's so it's so weird because
Speaker 1: it it sounds so confusing, and it was so confusing.
Speaker 1: All of us were kind of sat there for the
Speaker 1: first ten minutes being like, how do we do this?
Speaker 1: What are we doing? Who's in charge? Who starts? Who
Speaker 1: are you? Like? It was it was a lot, and
Speaker 1: it was It's it's funny because there are you know,
Speaker 1: there are certain I guess like cultural societal things that
Speaker 1: happening as well, which is often, well in my understanding
Speaker 1: of it, Often the women are like, oh no, I
Speaker 1: don't know what's happening, and then the men are like sick,
Speaker 1: I love jamming. Let's do this, and then start and
Speaker 1: then say, oh no, why don't you do something a
Speaker 1: bit like that? You know, one one of them will
Speaker 1: kind of take charge of the room. As it were,
Speaker 1: sounds like.
Speaker 2: It's got a sort of big brother vibe of like.
Speaker 1: It's all all good vibes, it's all love. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is all love. But I was annoyed at myself for
Speaker 1: being for not having you know, spent thirty years learning
Speaker 1: my theory and learning my instruments better so that I
Speaker 1: could be like, Okay, let me be in charge.
Speaker 2: Can you have you have you performed on Later with
Speaker 2: Jules Holland? Yeah, no, that's coming out, that's coming up.
Speaker 2: But you know, I always think that at the start
Speaker 2: when they're all playing, like, you know, I don't know
Speaker 2: if they even do that anymore, but you know, they
Speaker 2: used to all start playing a song and he'd sort
Speaker 2: of introduced who was going to be on the show.
Speaker 2: That sounds like an anxiety dream to me. But would
Speaker 2: you be in that situation if you had your guitar
Speaker 2: instead of a glass sad times, then would you have
Speaker 2: would you be like you'd know what what key to
Speaker 2: stay in?
Speaker 1: I have no idea about keys. If someone told like
Speaker 1: three chords, I could probably do it right, single notes,
Speaker 1: could probably do it. Sing along. Yeah, fine, a glass
Speaker 1: glass beautiful my favorite.
Speaker 2: Your new album will strictly be class music. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this this shot of you with Killian, what was that?
Speaker 2: What part of the festival was that? Was that like
Speaker 2: a talk?
Speaker 1: No, that was part of the residency. So basically the
Speaker 1: beauty of the residency is that everyone just kind of
Speaker 1: meshes in together, and uh, everyone kind of ended up
Speaker 1: in this like smoking area in the nighttime. And so
Speaker 1: I've just been in there and we were just having
Speaker 1: a chat. Nice sky Dreamboat looks like we chatted about
Speaker 1: six music playlists and episodes because I absolutely cannot get enough.
Speaker 1: I think they're the best.
Speaker 2: I went to a wedding this year in where was
Speaker 2: she Tonado O'Connor from, I don't actually know, Bray Bray nice? Yeah,
Speaker 2: beautiful love it Yeah, yeah, really really amazing, best wedding
Speaker 2: I've been, well, one of the best weddings I think
Speaker 2: I've ever been to. And I'm at the end of
Speaker 2: my wedding career.
Speaker 1: Now why was it so great? Is it because it
Speaker 1: was full of Irish?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so, because island is just amazing, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Full vibes all the time?
Speaker 2: And you spend lots of time there?
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why why is the wrong question because I've just
Speaker 2: sort of said why, But like how how? Because do
Speaker 2: you have Irish family? What made you? What made you
Speaker 2: go there in the first place?
Speaker 1: It was during the pandemic.
Speaker 2: And remember, because I think we've spoken, we have spoken
Speaker 2: about Ireland before. And I think the.
Speaker 1: Last time we did the podcast, I was living in Dublin.
Speaker 1: I was in Dublin when we did it.
Speaker 2: You just moved there in a pandemic because you're like,
Speaker 2: that sounds nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of. I well, like my album was
Speaker 1: meant to come out at the beginning of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: I mean everyone felt like this. I'd slightly lost control
Speaker 1: of the landmark points of my life. Like I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: then the album's going to come out, Then I'm going
Speaker 1: to tour. They we're going to do this, Like the
Speaker 1: whole schedule had just disappeared, and so I felt like
Speaker 1: I really needed something to kind of hold on to.
Speaker 1: And I knew that the album was going to come
Speaker 1: out some point, and one of my friends, who is
Speaker 1: infinitely smart, was like, oh, I'm actually moving to Sweden
Speaker 1: to go and do a filmmaking masters for two years.
Speaker 1: I was like, that is absolutely genius to do during
Speaker 1: a pandemic when you don't you know, necessarily know what's
Speaker 1: going to happen. So I decided to start applying for
Speaker 1: music masters. Is because I had so little confidence and
Speaker 1: faith in my ability around music or also like being
Speaker 1: a musician as a business because I didn't have a
Speaker 1: manager at that point, and you know, people were starting
Speaker 1: to ask questions to me where I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know what that is. So I was like, right,
Speaker 1: I really need to buckle down and actually learn this
Speaker 1: stuff before I start this career.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, I applied to a couple of music masters.
Speaker 2: Is one is to learn about like the biz, to
Speaker 2: learn the sort.
Speaker 1: Of They had all different types. So it was learning
Speaker 1: about like events management, learning about the business side of it,
Speaker 1: learning about like production.
Speaker 2: That's the world we're in now, isn't it. As a musician,
Speaker 2: It's not enough to just be a good musician or
Speaker 2: a songwriter. You need to know the business side of it.
Speaker 2: You need to know to promote yourself social media.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you need to know photoshop, video editors.
Speaker 2: All of these things that you know, even ten years
Speaker 2: ago it would never have been in the game. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's sort of crazy. Your one thing we have
Speaker 2: in common is, I think, is a sort of hatred.
Speaker 2: I would say maybe maybe that's not even too strong
Speaker 2: for those social pressures that social things. Yeah. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: you and I. So you started a newsletter, I mean,
Speaker 2: did you start yours for the same reason that we
Speaker 2: started as at a magazine, which is essentially to try
Speaker 2: to do less social media and build a sort of
Speaker 2: just one place where people are genuinely sort of there
Speaker 2: and you're not beating algorithms and you're not trying to
Speaker 2: like work out how to reach the people following you.
Speaker 2: How's it going.
Speaker 1: I've sent one newsletter in the last two years.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, because I have not seen
Speaker 2: it much and I am a subscriber, but that, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's it's another thing. Isn't it on the list?
Speaker 1: Another thing on the list?
Speaker 2: Is it not enough? Like I now have to do
Speaker 2: a newsletter.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of different things around it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really good to have like a newsletter subscriber base
Speaker 1: because if you have people's emails, it means you are
Speaker 1: not being sold anything or selling anything yourself by being
Speaker 1: on the social media platform that is like, you know,
Speaker 1: connecting you with these fans. But then mail Chimp, which
Speaker 1: I was using, started like monetizing over a certain amount.
Speaker 1: So now if you have over like is it like
Speaker 1: five hundred subscribers, you have to pay. And then also
Speaker 1: I found the setup of it really confusing. And then
Speaker 1: also every time I sent an email, like twenty people
Speaker 1: would unsubscribe and I can see them, my friends, Oh.
Speaker 2: I feel you. I'm so so we have to that point.
Speaker 2: I'm with you, like when you send a male Because
Speaker 2: we use mail Chimp for as as the magazine, but
Speaker 2: we use a different, more different We've got all of
Speaker 2: these sort of plug in, all these things working for us.
Speaker 2: And the way the subscriptions on the magazine work through
Speaker 2: this other platform called Steady, and I receive to my
Speaker 2: personal email acca is it connected to my account? I
Speaker 2: receive a little alert when someone has subscribed to magazine
Speaker 2: because I have to to send them a copy of
Speaker 2: the magazine. And it's joy. It's a joint. Someone has
Speaker 2: subscribed to magazine. Isn't that great? But I also received
Speaker 2: them every single time somebody cancels, and I cannot take it.
Speaker 2: I cannot take the rejection at all. It's like death
Speaker 2: by a thousand cuts every time there is one. And
Speaker 2: I get it. There's something I've subscribed to magazines or
Speaker 2: to other you know, services, film channels, whatever, movie and
Speaker 2: done it for a bit and then going I'm not
Speaker 2: really like, I'm not finding the time for this, and
Speaker 2: I can say I've been that person, but I can't.
Speaker 2: But however logical I think about it, seeing that rejection
Speaker 2: in real time is little Daggett as hard grim, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it totally is.
Speaker 2: And you're right. When you send something to the people
Speaker 2: who you think, well, they've signed up for this thing,
Speaker 2: so they want this thing, send it to them, and
Speaker 2: then you just get ding ding ding And what are
Speaker 2: these people?
Speaker 1: People leaving the see you later, miss you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like arranging a party and
Speaker 2: then when you turn up, some people go, ah.
Speaker 1: Actually, really you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm off on WhatsApp. Do you leave voice notes
Speaker 2: or do you type both? So here's something I found
Speaker 2: out about. You'll probably know this because you're much younger
Speaker 2: than I am. But I I text because that's my generation.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Leaving the voice note thing is new to me. And
Speaker 2: but I left one to a friend who's Tristan, you
Speaker 2: know Tristan. And I left him. I left him a note,
Speaker 2: a voice note, and I think I commented in it saying, oh,
Speaker 2: I mean this is the least cool thing in the world,
Speaker 2: saying isn't this young and cooler? And he wrote back,
Speaker 2: I think he might have left. He came back to
Speaker 2: me basically and pointed and pointed out that apparently, if
Speaker 2: you leave a gap at the beginning of the recording,
Speaker 2: you're a boomer. Have you heard this?
Speaker 1: No, I haven't heard that. That's genius.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so, and I had obviously.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure it's recorded except right exactly.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, man, that's so embarrassing that
Speaker 2: I'd managed to get that so wrong. But I had
Speaker 2: never heard that before. I'm glad you haven't, but but
Speaker 2: I get it right. Because for my generation, when our
Speaker 2: parents started getting mobile phones or texting or they would
Speaker 2: look at it like it was a sort of alien
Speaker 2: object in the hand and they wouldn't just like use
Speaker 2: it like this. They would sort of hold it in
Speaker 2: one hand and indexinger jabbing, jabbing at it. Yeah, my
Speaker 2: mum still like that right, and this voice note gap
Speaker 2: at the beginning. That's the younger generation's equivalent.
Speaker 1: That's there's so much stuff like that. Side partings, they're like, Jugy, what, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got to have a center barting skinny jeans, said JUGI.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know that about skinny jeans,
Speaker 2: But I mean, who's got a side parting anyway.
Speaker 1: I've been known just side barting.
Speaker 2: But that's a weird one, isn't it to say.
Speaker 1: Like long hair jugy on men and women?
Speaker 2: Anyway? Long hairld women?
Speaker 1: Yeah. If you notice all the gen z Is are
Speaker 1: now cutting their hair really.
Speaker 2: Short like Bob's. Yeah, sure, okay, I.
Speaker 1: Can't really do that. I mean I could, but it
Speaker 1: just looks terrible on me. I've done it before.
Speaker 2: Genuinely speaking, are you you're are, how you're dealing with
Speaker 2: You're not? You're still very young, but like getting old.
Speaker 1: I think we're quite similar in age. You said that
Speaker 1: I was a lot younger, but I don't think I
Speaker 1: am sixty. Oh fair, I'm sixteen.
Speaker 2: Oh there's a difference. Yeah, yeah, Do you do you
Speaker 2: like it? Do you like getting older?
Speaker 1: I fucking love getting to you? Holy fuck?
Speaker 2: Is that because you hated being younger? Or is it
Speaker 2: because you're just a more measured person than I am.
Speaker 1: I hated being younger in my brain, obviously, I liked
Speaker 1: it a lot more in my body because I could,
Speaker 1: you know, do things like drink and not feel the
Speaker 1: repercussions of it. But I just despised myself so much
Speaker 1: and really struggled with anything to do with like self esteem.
Speaker 1: And yeah, as I get older and older, I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm learning more and more about the beauties of
Speaker 1: life and they are not, you know, ripping yourself apart,
Speaker 1: both physically and mentally at all times. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Progress, progress, This is what it's all about. One thing
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about. I didn't do much
Speaker 2: research for this. You may have sort of.
Speaker 1: Noticed that I actually didn't.
Speaker 2: But I did find an old cover you did of
Speaker 2: Edwin Collins. Like you great, Thank you you do some
Speaker 2: good covers. You did come for us, and you did
Speaker 2: Golden Scans. Bye Clackson's Edwin Collins very sort of moody,
Speaker 2: different vibe.
Speaker 1: Very different vibe.
Speaker 2: It taught me that I've been getting a lyric wrong
Speaker 2: though in it, because you know the lyric. I've written
Speaker 2: it down here. You know the lyric. You may you
Speaker 2: made me acknowledge the devil in me since that song
Speaker 2: came out? What's the devil a bit? Since that song
Speaker 2: came out? I I thought he sang Edwin Collins the
Speaker 2: devil in Me ah, and I thought that was the lyric.
Speaker 2: And when I listened to your version of it, I
Speaker 2: was there rubbing my hands before it got up, by thinking,
Speaker 2: I wonder if Anna's gonna say Edwin Collins or if
Speaker 2: she's gonna put her own name and make it her own. God.
Speaker 2: And then it came to it, you didn't say Edwin
Speaker 2: Collins at all, and I looked up the lyrics. I
Speaker 2: realized how wrong I'd been.
Speaker 1: You made me acknowledge the devil in me. Oh God,
Speaker 1: I'm talking murtiforically. Oh I love that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but that is the sort of beauty of
Speaker 2: those sort of you know, of a cover that is
Speaker 2: so much sort of slower and.
Speaker 1: And measured, nunciated, quiet girl.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you know you sort of learn learn the lyrics. Yea,
Speaker 2: how should we end this?
Speaker 1: Let's do that thing where you have to sing this
Speaker 1: song together looking at each other's mouths. Do you know
Speaker 1: that one? Just make it up?
Speaker 2: You just make up the song, okay.
Speaker 1: You have to sing it together. Who's who's leading and
Speaker 1: who's following? You lead and I'll follow. So you just
Speaker 1: make up a song and I will try and sing
Speaker 1: it along with you.
Speaker 2: I think maybe you should be making it up because
Speaker 2: I've got no musical You should lead, okay, because I
Speaker 2: will lead us into a wall.
Speaker 1: Okay are you ready?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: This was so far fun.
Speaker 2: Wait one last time? Are doing? Is it starting like
Speaker 2: that again? You give me no?
Speaker 1: We hope you join the so lots of love from.
Speaker 2: Stew Midnight Chats is a joint production between Loud and
Speaker 2: Quiet and Atomized Studios for iHeartRadio. It's hosted by Stuart
Speaker 2: Stubbs and Greg Cochrane, mixed and mastered by Flow Lines,
Speaker 2: and edited by Stuart Stubbs. Find us on Instagram and
Speaker 2: TikTok to watch clips from our recordings and much much more.
Speaker 2: We are Midnight Chats Pod. For more information, visit loudan
Speaker 2: Quiet dot com