WEBVTT - Ep 128: Anna B Savage

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<v Speaker 1>Let's do that thing where you have to sing the

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<v Speaker 1>song together looking at each other's mouths. Who's leading and

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<v Speaker 1>who's following? You lead and I'll follow.

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<v Speaker 2>Evening, everyone, Welcome to Midnight Chat's the music interview podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Greg Cochrane. I'm Stuart Stubbs and on

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<v Speaker 2>this week's podcast, Stu, you got to speak with someone

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<v Speaker 2>and sing with someone. Yeah, thankfully this is the first

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<v Speaker 2>episode and probably the last episode in which you'll hear

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<v Speaker 2>me sing tell me about Anna, because listen, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know Anna's work that well. So Anna is a relatively

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<v Speaker 2>new artist. She's from North London. She's released two albums

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<v Speaker 2>to date. Last year was our second album in Flux.

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<v Speaker 2>We were talking in November early November twenty twenty three,

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<v Speaker 2>and in this conversation you'll actually hear me reveal to

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<v Speaker 2>Anna where she is on our Albums of the Year list.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's a little bit of context. We were just

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with, like what was our top forty going to be?

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<v Speaker 2>Anna's album in Flux was on that list. Her previous

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<v Speaker 2>album was called A Common Turn, another beautiful record. Anna's

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<v Speaker 2>music I think if I was to describe it would

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<v Speaker 2>be it's very raw. It's very confessional, plays the guitar beautifully,

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<v Speaker 2>sings very very beautifully, and it's very emotional music. And

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<v Speaker 2>you hear it and you sort of think, oh, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>this person is going to be quite an intense interview,

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<v Speaker 2>but she's not. I've met Anna a few times and

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<v Speaker 2>she's such a good laugh and I think we had

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<v Speaker 2>a good time together recording this. We'll talk about Killian Murphy.

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<v Speaker 2>She met Killian Murphy last year. It's a very free

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<v Speaker 2>wheeling conversation. This it's exactly sort of what I've always

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<v Speaker 2>hoped Midnight Chats to be, and it was made a

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<v Speaker 2>little easier because Anna's very good at this. I want

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<v Speaker 2>to hear you singing, stew I've been waiting a long

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<v Speaker 2>time for this. Here is Anna be Savage on tonight's

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<v Speaker 2>episode of Midnight Chats. Hello, Anna, Hello, Welcome to the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Anna B. Savage's it's a hell of a name.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 2>It's good, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? It's pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>You pleased with it?

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<v Speaker 1>I am?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. You get a lot of people asking about the bee.

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<v Speaker 1>I do, yeah. I also yeah, I get a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people not really believing that it's my actual name.

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<v Speaker 1>I get people congratulating me.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot like I just did.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but like passport control, they're like, oh sick.

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<v Speaker 2>So people are thinking it must be a stage name. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's it's the Savage.

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<v Speaker 1>It's good, it's too good.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the Savage.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The BEE, of course stands.

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<v Speaker 1>For Brian, Brian famously.

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<v Speaker 2>Is it common knowledge what the BEE stands for?

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<v Speaker 1>It is not.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's keep it that way. I when I was at school,

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<v Speaker 2>when I was a child, my mum had all of

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<v Speaker 2>these little tags, these little ribbons that said Stuart M.

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<v Speaker 2>Stubbs that she'd put in all of my clothes. My

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<v Speaker 2>brother had Peter K. Stubbs.

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<v Speaker 1>Not as good, I don't think, But Peter K is

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<v Speaker 1>quite fun.

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<v Speaker 2>That's quite fun. This was pre Peter K. Yeah. Sadly.

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<v Speaker 2>People in my cast, when they would ask what the

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<v Speaker 2>M stood for, I would always say Maurice. Oh, which

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<v Speaker 2>it isn't. That's not what the M stands for. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's fun, But I just thought it was more interesting

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<v Speaker 2>than what the M does stand for.

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<v Speaker 1>This is that's kind of the exact opposite problem that

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<v Speaker 1>I have, which is that I have zero imagination, so

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't come up with a name for my artist

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<v Speaker 1>version of me. So you just put the I just

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<v Speaker 1>put my actual initial in the middle.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you what made you not just go for Anna Savage?

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<v Speaker 2>Because I mean, the bee is making it, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? The B makes it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it was a fun pun for a start. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>it is my actual initial, and I don't know Anna.

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<v Speaker 1>I am Anna Savage like I've been Anna Savage since

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<v Speaker 1>I was little. I needed some differentiation between me and my.

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<v Speaker 2>Person Yesterday I went to a fancy screening of a

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<v Speaker 2>movie that's not out yet. Okay about the darkness no way? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>darkness fan.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes obviously. Can you see the glee in my face?

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<v Speaker 1>And here it's in my voice?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's like the Darkness. I mean. The reason

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<v Speaker 2>I've mentioned that is because what you were just saying

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<v Speaker 2>about personas is really good film. By the way, I

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<v Speaker 2>can't rate it rate it enough. It's called Welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>the Darkness. I don't know when it's out.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a documentary.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a documentary. It's it's their spinal tap and it's

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<v Speaker 2>very spark tap obviously, but Justin Hawkins talks in it

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<v Speaker 2>about his persona and how he became quote unquote Justin

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<v Speaker 2>Hawkins even though that's his real name, and he talks

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<v Speaker 2>about how, you know, his drug addiction was essentially him

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<v Speaker 2>method acting his way into being a rock star.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that I feel like that would be

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<v Speaker 1>a real danger if if you do use completely your

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<v Speaker 1>real name, like mine's still very very close to my

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<v Speaker 1>real name, Like my family will be like, oh, Anabe

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<v Speaker 1>Savage is here.

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<v Speaker 2>You know do they find it amusing?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, that you have that tiny differentiation is enough

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<v Speaker 1>to be like, I think I'm saved as Annabe Savage

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<v Speaker 1>in my sister's phone and stuff. But yeah, I can

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<v Speaker 1>totally see how that would especially if you're so successful,

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<v Speaker 1>like the Darkness and it just kind of comes out

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<v Speaker 1>of well, not nowhere, but like comes very quickly. There

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<v Speaker 1>would be you know, moments where it's like, wait, does

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<v Speaker 1>this real me?

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<v Speaker 2>Or so you're do you feel that you put on

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<v Speaker 2>a persona at what points, like when you're on stage?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this is also the funny, naughty, difficult thing. It

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<v Speaker 1>is that I feel like the music I write is

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<v Speaker 1>so kind of exposing, and I try and be so

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<v Speaker 1>emotionally honest that it would be weird if I then

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<v Speaker 1>put on a persona to like perform them. Yeah, but

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<v Speaker 1>I guess it's like a tiny bit of it's like

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<v Speaker 1>just to give me that tiny bit of wiggle room.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that when I when I perform, I definitely

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<v Speaker 1>recently have become more myself, which is really nice. I

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<v Speaker 1>think in the past I used to try different things

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<v Speaker 1>out because I was quite nervous, whereas now I can

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<v Speaker 1>add in the kind of like goofiness and silliness of

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<v Speaker 1>me and not feel like it's too difficult to pair

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<v Speaker 1>with the music, I guess, Whereas in the past I

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<v Speaker 1>was just like absolutely bringing it all the time, so

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<v Speaker 1>I just needed something to feel like I was in control.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, Well, this like, so we've we've spoken a fair

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<v Speaker 2>few times. I'd say we know each other close friends.

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<v Speaker 1>I would say we're friends.

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<v Speaker 2>One thing I don't think we've ever spoken about, but this,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the origin story that I have heard. I

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<v Speaker 2>think about your music, okay, and you can tell me

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<v Speaker 2>if it's correct or not. Am I right in thinking?

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<v Speaker 2>There was a time where you started releasing music and

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<v Speaker 2>you went on a tour with father John Misty and

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<v Speaker 2>things were looking things were going well, and then you

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<v Speaker 2>decided I don't want to do this right now, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not ready for this right now. Is there any truth

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<v Speaker 2>in that?

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<v Speaker 1>It's adjacent to the truth, Okay for sure. So I yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>released music I think it was like twenty fourteen, twenty

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen ish, and people seemed to like it, and then

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<v Speaker 1>I got asked, I know, and then I got asked

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<v Speaker 1>to go on this tour with father John Misty, which

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<v Speaker 1>was obviously absolutely dreamy. Can I swear on this there's

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<v Speaker 1>been okay, cool, There's been a couple of instances where I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, no, go for it, that's fine.

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<v Speaker 1>It was fucking dreamy and went on this.

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<v Speaker 2>Tour dreamy guy, very dreamy guy, very dreamy.

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<v Speaker 1>Guy, like a total sweetheart. I really he was so

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<v Speaker 1>kind to me that whole tour and so generous and yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>big love for Josh. I found myself then being like, okay, cool,

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<v Speaker 1>I need to write this wave because famously the music

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<v Speaker 1>industry is quite fickle and they want you.

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<v Speaker 2>To watch the Darkness documentary.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yes, and yeah, I want you to create stuff

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<v Speaker 1>a lot and be putting stuff out a lot. And

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<v Speaker 1>I was quite a low ebb at that point in

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<v Speaker 1>my kind of personal life, so I wouldn't say it

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<v Speaker 1>was a decision to step away from the industry. It

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<v Speaker 1>was more like a crushing lack of self confidence and

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<v Speaker 1>load of self loathing that kind of stopped me from

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<v Speaker 1>actually writing anything because I had this weird like duel

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<v Speaker 1>thing in my head where I was like, either I

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<v Speaker 1>really lucked out and managed to convince everyone that that

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<v Speaker 1>was good, but I can never create anything again, or

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<v Speaker 1>everyone's like playing this trick on me, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>just like classic low self confidence stuff. So I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>write anything, and I couldn't write anything I was trying to,

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<v Speaker 1>and everyone kept being like, this is your one chance.

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<v Speaker 1>If you don't take this, then you're not going to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to do music, which obviously is super helpful

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<v Speaker 1>when you're feeling the pressure. And so yeah, basically that happened,

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<v Speaker 1>and I couldn't get anything out. And then one by one,

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<v Speaker 1>all the people that I knew in the industry kind

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<v Speaker 1>of disappeared or left or went to a different industry

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<v Speaker 1>or except for my wonderful booking agent, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>a bit like, oh, okay, well, now I don't have

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<v Speaker 1>any pressure and I've got myself out of this like

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<v Speaker 1>bad personal scenario and I've kind of built my I

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<v Speaker 1>guess like built my confidence, built my personality back up.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to try writing a fucking album. So I

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<v Speaker 1>wrote this album with zero pressure, zero interest, zero anything

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<v Speaker 1>really and then had it and then didn't they what

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<v Speaker 1>to do. So just kind of like, you know, did

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<v Speaker 1>stuff at the same time, but not really any music stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I went on a music residency in Canada

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<v Speaker 1>and I started kind of tentatively playing it to these

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<v Speaker 1>people who I just like, I hadn't known them before,

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<v Speaker 1>but I admired them all so much that incredible musicians,

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<v Speaker 1>incredible creators, creatives, and they were like, oh, this is

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<v Speaker 1>fucking good, Like you should do something with this. I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, OK, maybe I will. So I came

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<v Speaker 1>home after this and spent all my savings paying my

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<v Speaker 1>producer Will Doyle to record the album with me, and

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<v Speaker 1>then had the album and then I had to start

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<v Speaker 1>like sending out to people being like, hello, do you

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<v Speaker 1>remember me from me five years ago?

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<v Speaker 2>But did you find that point at that point did

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of pressure kick back in once you were

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<v Speaker 2>like had the thing to sell it or had it

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<v Speaker 2>gone because you'd created the thing?

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<v Speaker 1>It had gone because I created the thing. I just

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<v Speaker 1>felt so tough to myself. I genuinely was like beside

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<v Speaker 1>myself with glee at the fact that I had managed

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<v Speaker 1>to complete this thing which had previously seemed completely unfathomable

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<v Speaker 1>to me, like insurmountable. Didn't know how anyone would write

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<v Speaker 1>an album, And.

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<v Speaker 2>Now you've written two in flux released earlier this year. Correct,

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<v Speaker 2>How's twenty twenty three B twenty.

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty three has been actually quite hard?

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<v Speaker 2>Has it?

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<v Speaker 1>Just like personal stuff?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>But professionally it's been good?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it is a serious question. Oh well, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess it's serious. Yeah, is do you when you release

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<v Speaker 2>a record like that or any record, do you have

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<v Speaker 2>you personally? What is your barometer of success for you? Like?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, a serious question that makes me sound entirely unhinged. Great,

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<v Speaker 1>I well, you have like you have like your your

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<v Speaker 1>hopes for it, and then you have like your hopes

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<v Speaker 1>for it, so like you know, the hopes are like,

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<v Speaker 1>I hope I can get to make another album. I

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<v Speaker 1>hope this one like touches people in a similarish way

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<v Speaker 1>than the first one did. I hope people like it

0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.040
<v Speaker 1>as much as people seem to like the first one.

0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:17.480
<v Speaker 1>And then there's like to win the Mercury breads film

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:18.720
<v Speaker 1>all the money.

0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:21.200
<v Speaker 2>That's good. That should be in your mind. Though in

0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.240
<v Speaker 2>a way, right, I think.

0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.719
<v Speaker 1>So it makes things very disappointing.

0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember Orlando Weeks. Do you have me met Orlando?

0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:31.760
<v Speaker 1>I haven't met him.

0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:36.599
<v Speaker 2>No, Lovely ma'am came on the podcast and he I

0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.319
<v Speaker 2>don't know if it was actually in the recording or

0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.480
<v Speaker 2>afterward finished, but he was saying to him, success is

0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.760
<v Speaker 2>I think I was probably moaning about something afterwards, and

0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.040
<v Speaker 2>he was saying, like, success to him is just being

0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.560
<v Speaker 2>able to make the next thing. If the thing that

0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:55.000
<v Speaker 2>he makes, whatever that is, allows him to make another one,

0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.679
<v Speaker 2>then it's all good and that's the goal. And then

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.040
<v Speaker 2>the success of that one will be to carry on

0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.360
<v Speaker 2>doing the thing totally. Anything to stop you having to

0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.160
<v Speaker 2>get a real job, I guess is another way of

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.800
<v Speaker 2>saying that, right. But I also think it's natural for

0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 2>you to want to win the Mercury. I want to,

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, yeah whatever, have those sort of plaudits, because

0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.440
<v Speaker 2>I think that's sort of just quite a natural part

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.679
<v Speaker 2>of being a performer totally an artist and a creative.

0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think that well for me, and perhaps

0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.760
<v Speaker 1>this is my super naive not having got close to

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.679
<v Speaker 1>any of those things at all. View But like with

0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.520
<v Speaker 1>those things for me would come money, I think, which

0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>then affords me the opportunity to make stuff again in

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.040
<v Speaker 1>the future, because there's this, like, you know, they're really

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:42.680
<v Speaker 1>it does feel like you're on the edge of a

0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.040
<v Speaker 1>precipice all the time trying to be a creative and

0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.559
<v Speaker 1>it is like, I do think it's miraculous that this

0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.439
<v Speaker 1>is my job. Like it's wild to me that I,

0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, get by doing this just about and it

0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:04.079
<v Speaker 1>feels like an imense privilege being able to just express myself.

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I've listened to enough celebrity podcasts to know

0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.320
<v Speaker 1>that when you win the prizes, it doesn't feel the

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.240
<v Speaker 1>same way as you think it will feel when you

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.640
<v Speaker 1>want to win the prizes. Yeah, yeah, but I think

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:21.040
<v Speaker 1>there's that that mix of yeah, potentially getting welcomed into

0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.320
<v Speaker 1>the club to be like, maybe now you have enough

0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.520
<v Speaker 1>gravitas behind you to be able to sustain this for

0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.440
<v Speaker 1>that little bit longer, you know. I feel like this year,

0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 1>I've complained a lot about money because it feels quite

0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 1>scary being trying to go on tour and all that

0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff, And I've complained to my therapist about it,

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 1>probably more more than I should have done, and at

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:45.400
<v Speaker 1>a certain point she said, I mean, it's so good

0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:47.760
<v Speaker 1>that someone can be this honest with me and really

0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.640
<v Speaker 1>just hit the nail on the head. She basically said

0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:51.600
<v Speaker 1>to me. She was like, you know that the way

0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:53.880
<v Speaker 1>that you write music and the kind of music you're writing,

0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.000
<v Speaker 1>you're only writing to express yourself. You're not writing to

0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 1>make money. You're not writing like you know, pop bangers

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.760
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. So it's really funny that you should expect

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.480
<v Speaker 1>to make loads of cash and like feel financially confident

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 1>when all you're doing is being like, this is my

0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.040
<v Speaker 1>emotions and this is my heart and this is how

0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.760
<v Speaker 1>I feel like. It's you know, that's an anomaly when

0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 1>that happens, when those two things overlap.

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:20.880
<v Speaker 2>That's Radiohead.

0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.640
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly my example that I always use.

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 2>That's my go to thing.

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 1>And that was really fun because she kind of said

0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.280
<v Speaker 1>that to me and I was like, huh, that's completely accurate.

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.200
<v Speaker 2>You have earned your money.

0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:37.920
<v Speaker 1>She's so great though, she doesn't let me get away

0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.640
<v Speaker 1>with any of my ship any more more money. Yeah,

0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:46.240
<v Speaker 1>it's like, well, change what you're working through exactly.

0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.600
<v Speaker 2>How about end of year lists? Is that something you

0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 2>will be paying attention to? Do you ignore that stuff?

0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's always nice, isn't it if you end

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.360
<v Speaker 1>up on an end of year list? Weirdly, I don't.

0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 1>I haven't hadn't even kind of hadn't remembered that my

0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:01.800
<v Speaker 1>album came out of this year.

0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 2>It's going to be a surprise cycle.

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. I feel like the cycle for me feels

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.800
<v Speaker 1>like it's finished at the moment, so it'll be fun

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:11.920
<v Speaker 1>if it does turn up on anyone's end of your list.

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh yea, it's November.

0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 2>It's November. It's happening. We're currently putting ours together at

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 2>the magazine. It's on the list. Oh f in flux?

0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to know where it is on the list? Yes,

0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.480
<v Speaker 2>because this podcast is going to come out. The list

0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.640
<v Speaker 2>will be out by the time this goes out. Oh

0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.560
<v Speaker 2>my god, So we have a top forty?

0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Where do you think you'd be on the list?

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Forty?

0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 2>No? No, you're higher? Are you ready join me? Say?

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Number three?

0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Are you fucking serious?

0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Pretty good? Pretty good on the list?

0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:50.120
<v Speaker 1>That's fucking up.

0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think you're gonna be on a lot of

0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:53.440
<v Speaker 2>lists though.

0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 1>That's so cool.

0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 2>That's not bad? Is it? Number three?

0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Fucking great?

0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Shall I let you know who's who's Who's whose?

0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Number?

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Who's beaten you? Number one is Lankham legit? And number

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.639
<v Speaker 2>two oh we can circle back to Lancam in a second.

0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Actually put a pinion Lancam for a second. Number two

0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 2>is Danny Brown and Jpeg Mafia. Oh they did like

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:15.600
<v Speaker 2>a collab album.

0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.639
<v Speaker 1>Okay, then it's you La Force on your top forty

0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 1>unbelievably good album. If you haven't listened to it.

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I have skeleton, Okay, I mean things

0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.280
<v Speaker 2>could change. I can listen to that, could put that

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:34.280
<v Speaker 2>number three maybe, yeah, that sounds good. Then just moving back.

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:41.840
<v Speaker 1>To forty, that's amazing. Is that why I'm getting interviewed?

0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.680
<v Speaker 2>No? No, You're just You're You're just, you know, always

0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a allowed and quite fixture. I feel, and I thought,

0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:51.399
<v Speaker 2>you know, I thought I may as well tell you

0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:55.120
<v Speaker 2>where you are. It's tricky, isn't it? Because I feel

0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.520
<v Speaker 2>you've taken this news very well, fucking Jeff, because you know,

0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it's but also like I am personally

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.639
<v Speaker 2>am really bad at taking anything any good news. I

0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.679
<v Speaker 2>think I'm worse at good news, like how you are

0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.240
<v Speaker 2>opening a present at Christmas? Oh awful, and like people

0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:11.960
<v Speaker 2>are watching you, people like.

0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:15.480
<v Speaker 1>I cannot hide my real emotion from my face, Like

0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:17.160
<v Speaker 1>it will just show up on my face.

0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's good though, so like because I'm my issue

0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.919
<v Speaker 2>is if someone buys me a gift that is lovely

0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:24.800
<v Speaker 2>and I love it and it's the best thing. It's

0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.199
<v Speaker 2>a ferrari. It's what matter what it is? Number one,

0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.479
<v Speaker 2>couldn't matter what it is because I'm a ten year

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:38.879
<v Speaker 2>old constantly whatever it is, I can't EXPI I'm like

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:45.320
<v Speaker 2>this sort of just this Mannikin. We went to stay

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:48.120
<v Speaker 2>with a friend for Christmas one the one time I've

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.040
<v Speaker 2>not been at my family home. I guest for Christmas.

0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:55.720
<v Speaker 2>I was in Australia, if you've heard of that, And

0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.480
<v Speaker 2>it was weird because you know, it's very sunny and

0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:00.960
<v Speaker 2>it's like just a different whole from thing going on.

0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.639
<v Speaker 2>And I had never met Tristan, our friend Tristan, my

0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:10.160
<v Speaker 2>wife feels friend Tristan, and I'd never met his family before.

0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.600
<v Speaker 2>And they did a thing where when they exchange presents,

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.440
<v Speaker 2>they give you a present from like oh, this presence

0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.960
<v Speaker 2>for Annah, they give it to you, and then everyone

0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:25.760
<v Speaker 2>just watches you. Oh God, and you unwrap it and

0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.879
<v Speaker 2>then you talk about it. Oh yeah, this is another

0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.359
<v Speaker 2>thing I'm bad at. Let's say I got you this

0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.680
<v Speaker 2>box and you open it and we're all watching it.

0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:36.560
<v Speaker 2>There's a room people watching you open it. Would you

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.880
<v Speaker 2>get it, unwrap it, and then start unpacking it from

0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:43.720
<v Speaker 2>the box, look to look at the thing in the box,

0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.800
<v Speaker 2>or would you unwrap it, say oh thanks, it's that microphone,

0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.440
<v Speaker 2>put that to one side and think I'm going to

0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:51.680
<v Speaker 2>I'll get it all out later.

0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think that I probably would feel the pressure

0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.439
<v Speaker 1>to open it and then open it more, because that

0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.600
<v Speaker 1>looks like kill more into it, even if I'm super

0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:03.120
<v Speaker 1>into it.

0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.280
<v Speaker 2>That is the I think you're correct, And I forget

0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.760
<v Speaker 2>that second stage every single time, so it looks like

0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:15.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't really I'm ungrateful because I am next. Yeah, exactly,

0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:20.680
<v Speaker 2>I unwrap it. I just put it there next to

0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 2>the box of old ties. As I wrap, I'm wrapped

0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.359
<v Speaker 2>before every year I go into Christmas thinking need to

0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.720
<v Speaker 2>be better at that. Yeah, and I'm going to my

0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:30.159
<v Speaker 2>brothers in all this Christmas.

0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to get on with your brother in law.

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:34.560
<v Speaker 2>I do love that I do.

0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Do you have to say that because it's a podcast.

0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.879
<v Speaker 2>He won't listen to. No one I know listens to this,

0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.399
<v Speaker 2>so no, he won't listen to this. But that no

0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.840
<v Speaker 2>one we do get on. But that's what I'm going

0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:48.400
<v Speaker 2>to try and do.

0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, but what if it looks really insincere?

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh it will? You have been in Ireland recently?

0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 1>I have yet.

0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.760
<v Speaker 2>I saw a photo of you sat with Killie Murphy.

0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:05.840
<v Speaker 1>That's correct.

0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:11.159
<v Speaker 2>He looked okay one, yeah, explain yourself. Two. In the

0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.320
<v Speaker 2>image he looked very enamored with what you were saying.

0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 1>So you've seen the good image. There's two images, one

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 1>where he looks like he is barely tolerating me and

0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.600
<v Speaker 1>the other one where he's like, oh this is funny. Yeah,

0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.399
<v Speaker 1>it was really fun we had I went to Sounds

0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:28.200
<v Speaker 1>from a Safe Harbor.

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.119
<v Speaker 2>This is his festival, right or he's involved.

0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.639
<v Speaker 1>He's involved in it. Yeah, and the guys from a

0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.280
<v Speaker 1>lot of yeah, a lot of big dogs in Cork

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.280
<v Speaker 1>this festival. Yeah, this one was in Cork. They've also

0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:45.040
<v Speaker 1>had them in Wisconsin and Berlin. It was an incredible experience.

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.959
<v Speaker 1>It was so you have like a week's residency and

0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:52.399
<v Speaker 1>then the weekend festival and the residency is just all

0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:59.600
<v Speaker 1>of these gigantic, amazing musicians who are you know, unfathomably talented.

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 1>The first day, I was in a room with like

0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Caroline Rose and Olive for Arnold's and like some other people,

0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:13.719
<v Speaker 1>and I, oh, god, I jamming is not really my vibe.

0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:15.439
<v Speaker 1>I get really overwhelmed.

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.000
<v Speaker 2>You sort of winced at the word jam. Yeah.

0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not my happy place. And I, you know,

0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:27.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm just very lack of self confidence in the kind

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:29.920
<v Speaker 1>of I'm going to show you my prowess on my instrument.

0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that sounds.

0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Terrible my guitar. And so I ended up in the

0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:38.640
<v Speaker 1>corner of the room trying to play a glass in

0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:39.920
<v Speaker 1>like a jamming session.

0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:41.200
<v Speaker 2>How did that go down?

0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.919
<v Speaker 1>It was great, It was great. I knew where I

0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:47.520
<v Speaker 1>needed to be.

0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:52.400
<v Speaker 2>So what's the what's the deal? Someone says, how does

0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:54.879
<v Speaker 2>this information get to you? Today? You will be playing

0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.000
<v Speaker 2>improvised music with this list of people.

0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.359
<v Speaker 1>So there's a woman called Mary who organized is the

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:07.480
<v Speaker 1>whole residency, right. She is a magnificent person, and she

0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.520
<v Speaker 1>just kind of gently pushes you towards a room and

0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:14.240
<v Speaker 1>goes go in there. You'll have fun and I And.

0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:17.240
<v Speaker 2>It's the idea that your you're is it being recorded?

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Are you coming up with something that.

0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:22.280
<v Speaker 1>It's totally free from You could just be for that moment,

0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:24.560
<v Speaker 1>just for that moment. You could be making something to

0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:26.159
<v Speaker 1>perform at the end of the week. You could be

0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:30.440
<v Speaker 1>making something to maybe like record it later down the line.

0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:32.400
<v Speaker 1>You could be like, oh, I think we should start

0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:36.440
<v Speaker 1>a band, right, you know, it could be any number

0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:36.920
<v Speaker 1>of things.

0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:39.479
<v Speaker 2>That group of people did you had you met them before? No?

0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:43.720
<v Speaker 1>I hadn't met a single person. Oh no, I'd met

0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:47.560
<v Speaker 1>them before I walked. I'd met Neve before I walked

0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.000
<v Speaker 1>in the room. Everyone else i'd kind of seen the

0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:50.920
<v Speaker 1>night before.

0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:54.159
<v Speaker 2>At dinner and they say, right, we're gonna let's let's

0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:58.800
<v Speaker 2>does someone just pick up something? And like Oli forgets

0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 2>on the piano. Maybe yeah? And then what you.

0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:03.280
<v Speaker 1>You with me?

0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.280
<v Speaker 2>I was going to say, what you you certainly think?

0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:09.679
<v Speaker 2>What leads you to think I'm going to pick up

0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:10.360
<v Speaker 2>that glass?

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:14.480
<v Speaker 1>No. Caroline Rose, who is a creative genius, was like,

0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 1>I think we should play some glasses because there were

0:24:17.480 --> 0:24:21.000
<v Speaker 1>so many glasses in each room. No, I think by

0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 1>design so that we could drink water and not have

0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:24.679
<v Speaker 1>to leave the room to get.

0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:28.240
<v Speaker 2>Water, so you're sort of imprisoned slightly.

0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:32.040
<v Speaker 1>They pulled all the curtains down, shut the windows. No,

0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.399
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't even that. It's so it's so weird because

0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:39.720
<v Speaker 1>it it sounds so confusing, and it was so confusing.

0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:41.840
<v Speaker 1>All of us were kind of sat there for the

0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:45.720
<v Speaker 1>first ten minutes being like, how do we do this?

0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:50.560
<v Speaker 1>What are we doing? Who's in charge? Who starts? Who

0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:53.359
<v Speaker 1>are you? Like? It was it was a lot, and

0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 1>it was It's it's funny because there are you know,

0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.840
<v Speaker 1>there are certain I guess like cultural societal things that

0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:05.880
<v Speaker 1>happening as well, which is often, well in my understanding

0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:07.800
<v Speaker 1>of it, Often the women are like, oh no, I

0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:10.480
<v Speaker 1>don't know what's happening, and then the men are like sick,

0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:12.720
<v Speaker 1>I love jamming. Let's do this, and then start and

0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:14.240
<v Speaker 1>then say, oh no, why don't you do something a

0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:16.400
<v Speaker 1>bit like that? You know, one one of them will

0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:18.560
<v Speaker 1>kind of take charge of the room. As it were,

0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:19.199
<v Speaker 1>sounds like.

0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 2>It's got a sort of big brother vibe of like.

0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:25.560
<v Speaker 1>It's all all good vibes, it's all love. Yeah, it

0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:27.560
<v Speaker 1>is all love. But I was annoyed at myself for

0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:31.639
<v Speaker 1>being for not having you know, spent thirty years learning

0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:33.919
<v Speaker 1>my theory and learning my instruments better so that I

0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:36.639
<v Speaker 1>could be like, Okay, let me be in charge.

0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Can you have you have you performed on Later with

0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:42.679
<v Speaker 2>Jules Holland? Yeah, no, that's coming out, that's coming up.

0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:45.800
<v Speaker 2>But you know, I always think that at the start

0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:48.639
<v Speaker 2>when they're all playing, like, you know, I don't know

0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:50.080
<v Speaker 2>if they even do that anymore, but you know, they

0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:54.040
<v Speaker 2>used to all start playing a song and he'd sort

0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:55.720
<v Speaker 2>of introduced who was going to be on the show.

0:25:56.960 --> 0:26:00.280
<v Speaker 2>That sounds like an anxiety dream to me. But would

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:02.879
<v Speaker 2>you be in that situation if you had your guitar

0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:06.199
<v Speaker 2>instead of a glass sad times, then would you have

0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:10.560
<v Speaker 2>would you be like you'd know what what key to

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:11.159
<v Speaker 2>stay in?

0:26:11.440 --> 0:26:14.119
<v Speaker 1>I have no idea about keys. If someone told like

0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 1>three chords, I could probably do it right, single notes,

0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:23.919
<v Speaker 1>could probably do it. Sing along. Yeah, fine, a glass

0:26:24.200 --> 0:26:28.679
<v Speaker 1>glass beautiful my favorite.

0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:33.240
<v Speaker 2>Your new album will strictly be class music. Yeah. Yeah.

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:37.520
<v Speaker 2>So this this shot of you with Killian, what was that?

0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:38.919
<v Speaker 2>What part of the festival was that? Was that like

0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:39.720
<v Speaker 2>a talk?

0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:42.840
<v Speaker 1>No, that was part of the residency. So basically the

0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.439
<v Speaker 1>beauty of the residency is that everyone just kind of

0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:51.000
<v Speaker 1>meshes in together, and uh, everyone kind of ended up

0:26:51.040 --> 0:26:54.119
<v Speaker 1>in this like smoking area in the nighttime. And so

0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:56.040
<v Speaker 1>I've just been in there and we were just having

0:26:56.040 --> 0:26:59.880
<v Speaker 1>a chat. Nice sky Dreamboat looks like we chatted about

0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:06.920
<v Speaker 1>six music playlists and episodes because I absolutely cannot get enough.

0:27:06.960 --> 0:27:07.680
<v Speaker 1>I think they're the best.

0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:11.040
<v Speaker 2>I went to a wedding this year in where was

0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:17.280
<v Speaker 2>she Tonado O'Connor from, I don't actually know, Bray Bray nice? Yeah,

0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:21.200
<v Speaker 2>beautiful love it Yeah, yeah, really really amazing, best wedding

0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:22.760
<v Speaker 2>I've been, well, one of the best weddings I think

0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:24.600
<v Speaker 2>I've ever been to. And I'm at the end of

0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:25.399
<v Speaker 2>my wedding career.

0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Now why was it so great? Is it because it

0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:29.200
<v Speaker 1>was full of Irish?

0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I think so, because island is just amazing, isn't it?

0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Full vibes all the time?

0:27:34.560 --> 0:27:36.320
<v Speaker 2>And you spend lots of time there?

0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:36.639
<v Speaker 1>I do.

0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, why why is the wrong question because I've just

0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:47.639
<v Speaker 2>sort of said why, But like how how? Because do

0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:50.240
<v Speaker 2>you have Irish family? What made you? What made you

0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:51.320
<v Speaker 2>go there in the first place?

0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:53.160
<v Speaker 1>It was during the pandemic.

0:27:53.600 --> 0:27:56.480
<v Speaker 2>And remember, because I think we've spoken, we have spoken

0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:58.760
<v Speaker 2>about Ireland before. And I think the.

0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Last time we did the podcast, I was living in Dublin.

0:28:01.200 --> 0:28:02.480
<v Speaker 1>I was in Dublin when we did it.

0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:04.320
<v Speaker 2>You just moved there in a pandemic because you're like,

0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:06.879
<v Speaker 2>that sounds nice.

0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:09.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I kind of. I well, like my album was

0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:10.960
<v Speaker 1>meant to come out at the beginning of twenty twenty.

0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:14.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean everyone felt like this. I'd slightly lost control

0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:18.480
<v Speaker 1>of the landmark points of my life. Like I was like, Oh,

0:28:18.480 --> 0:28:19.840
<v Speaker 1>then the album's going to come out, Then I'm going

0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:21.879
<v Speaker 1>to tour. They we're going to do this, Like the

0:28:21.920 --> 0:28:25.600
<v Speaker 1>whole schedule had just disappeared, and so I felt like

0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:27.359
<v Speaker 1>I really needed something to kind of hold on to.

0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:29.119
<v Speaker 1>And I knew that the album was going to come

0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:34.000
<v Speaker 1>out some point, and one of my friends, who is

0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:37.800
<v Speaker 1>infinitely smart, was like, oh, I'm actually moving to Sweden

0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:40.400
<v Speaker 1>to go and do a filmmaking masters for two years.

0:28:40.960 --> 0:28:44.640
<v Speaker 1>I was like, that is absolutely genius to do during

0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:47.960
<v Speaker 1>a pandemic when you don't you know, necessarily know what's

0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:51.479
<v Speaker 1>going to happen. So I decided to start applying for

0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:57.600
<v Speaker 1>music masters. Is because I had so little confidence and

0:28:57.640 --> 0:29:02.000
<v Speaker 1>faith in my ability around music or also like being

0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:04.360
<v Speaker 1>a musician as a business because I didn't have a

0:29:04.400 --> 0:29:07.600
<v Speaker 1>manager at that point, and you know, people were starting

0:29:07.600 --> 0:29:09.200
<v Speaker 1>to ask questions to me where I was like, I

0:29:09.240 --> 0:29:12.480
<v Speaker 1>don't know what that is. So I was like, right,

0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:14.400
<v Speaker 1>I really need to buckle down and actually learn this

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:15.960
<v Speaker 1>stuff before I start this career.

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:20.040
<v Speaker 1>So, yeah, I applied to a couple of music masters.

0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Is one is to learn about like the biz, to

0:29:22.480 --> 0:29:23.320
<v Speaker 2>learn the sort.

0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:25.360
<v Speaker 1>Of They had all different types. So it was learning

0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:28.719
<v Speaker 1>about like events management, learning about the business side of it,

0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:31.040
<v Speaker 1>learning about like production.

0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:33.840
<v Speaker 2>That's the world we're in now, isn't it. As a musician,

0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:37.840
<v Speaker 2>It's not enough to just be a good musician or

0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:41.160
<v Speaker 2>a songwriter. You need to know the business side of it.

0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:45.160
<v Speaker 2>You need to know to promote yourself social media.

0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you need to know photoshop, video editors.

0:29:47.360 --> 0:29:51.040
<v Speaker 2>All of these things that you know, even ten years

0:29:51.040 --> 0:29:54.080
<v Speaker 2>ago it would never have been in the game. Yeah,

0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 2>and it's sort of crazy. Your one thing we have

0:29:56.800 --> 0:30:00.720
<v Speaker 2>in common is, I think, is a sort of hatred.

0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:03.120
<v Speaker 2>I would say maybe maybe that's not even too strong

0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:08.120
<v Speaker 2>for those social pressures that social things. Yeah. Yeah, because

0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:13.360
<v Speaker 2>you and I. So you started a newsletter, I mean,

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:14.840
<v Speaker 2>did you start yours for the same reason that we

0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:17.400
<v Speaker 2>started as at a magazine, which is essentially to try

0:30:18.080 --> 0:30:21.800
<v Speaker 2>to do less social media and build a sort of

0:30:21.960 --> 0:30:26.120
<v Speaker 2>just one place where people are genuinely sort of there

0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and you're not beating algorithms and you're not trying to

0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:31.040
<v Speaker 2>like work out how to reach the people following you.

0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:32.440
<v Speaker 2>How's it going.

0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:35.240
<v Speaker 1>I've sent one newsletter in the last two years.

0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:37.000
<v Speaker 2>I was going to say, because I have not seen

0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:43.320
<v Speaker 2>it much and I am a subscriber, but that, you know,

0:30:43.440 --> 0:30:45.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's it's another thing. Isn't it on the list?

0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:46.560
<v Speaker 1>Another thing on the list?

0:30:47.240 --> 0:30:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Is it not enough? Like I now have to do

0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:50.400
<v Speaker 2>a newsletter.

0:30:51.000 --> 0:30:53.240
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's a lot of different things around it. So yeah,

0:30:53.760 --> 0:30:57.960
<v Speaker 1>it's really good to have like a newsletter subscriber base

0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:02.280
<v Speaker 1>because if you have people's emails, it means you are

0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:06.880
<v Speaker 1>not being sold anything or selling anything yourself by being

0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:10.160
<v Speaker 1>on the social media platform that is like, you know,

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:15.240
<v Speaker 1>connecting you with these fans. But then mail Chimp, which

0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:19.760
<v Speaker 1>I was using, started like monetizing over a certain amount.

0:31:20.440 --> 0:31:22.960
<v Speaker 1>So now if you have over like is it like

0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 1>five hundred subscribers, you have to pay. And then also

0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:29.320
<v Speaker 1>I found the setup of it really confusing. And then

0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:32.040
<v Speaker 1>also every time I sent an email, like twenty people

0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:38.360
<v Speaker 1>would unsubscribe and I can see them, my friends, Oh.

0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:42.400
<v Speaker 2>I feel you. I'm so so we have to that point.

0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm with you, like when you send a male Because

0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:48.000
<v Speaker 2>we use mail Chimp for as as the magazine, but

0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:51.360
<v Speaker 2>we use a different, more different We've got all of

0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:54.600
<v Speaker 2>these sort of plug in, all these things working for us.

0:31:55.640 --> 0:31:59.200
<v Speaker 2>And the way the subscriptions on the magazine work through

0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:04.960
<v Speaker 2>this other platform called Steady, and I receive to my

0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:08.560
<v Speaker 2>personal email acca is it connected to my account? I

0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:11.479
<v Speaker 2>receive a little alert when someone has subscribed to magazine

0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 2>because I have to to send them a copy of

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:15.719
<v Speaker 2>the magazine. And it's joy. It's a joint. Someone has

0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 2>subscribed to magazine. Isn't that great? But I also received

0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:23.800
<v Speaker 2>them every single time somebody cancels, and I cannot take it.

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 2>I cannot take the rejection at all. It's like death

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 2>by a thousand cuts every time there is one. And

0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:35.200
<v Speaker 2>I get it. There's something I've subscribed to magazines or

0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:40.920
<v Speaker 2>to other you know, services, film channels, whatever, movie and

0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:42.920
<v Speaker 2>done it for a bit and then going I'm not

0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:44.600
<v Speaker 2>really like, I'm not finding the time for this, and

0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:48.040
<v Speaker 2>I can say I've been that person, but I can't.

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 2>But however logical I think about it, seeing that rejection

0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:55.479
<v Speaker 2>in real time is little Daggett as hard grim, isn't it.

0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it totally is.

0:32:56.920 --> 0:33:01.080
<v Speaker 2>And you're right. When you send something to the people

0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:03.760
<v Speaker 2>who you think, well, they've signed up for this thing,

0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:06.440
<v Speaker 2>so they want this thing, send it to them, and

0:33:06.480 --> 0:33:08.640
<v Speaker 2>then you just get ding ding ding And what are

0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:09.760
<v Speaker 2>these people?

0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:13.920
<v Speaker 1>People leaving the see you later, miss you.

0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like arranging a party and

0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:20.040
<v Speaker 2>then when you turn up, some people go, ah.

0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Actually, really you.

0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm off on WhatsApp. Do you leave voice notes

0:33:29.720 --> 0:33:33.800
<v Speaker 2>or do you type both? So here's something I found

0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:37.600
<v Speaker 2>out about. You'll probably know this because you're much younger

0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:41.880
<v Speaker 2>than I am. But I I text because that's my generation.

0:33:42.040 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:33:42.320 --> 0:33:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Leaving the voice note thing is new to me. And

0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:49.120
<v Speaker 2>but I left one to a friend who's Tristan, you

0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:52.680
<v Speaker 2>know Tristan. And I left him. I left him a note,

0:33:53.240 --> 0:33:56.400
<v Speaker 2>a voice note, and I think I commented in it saying, oh,

0:33:57.680 --> 0:33:59.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean this is the least cool thing in the world,

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:08.720
<v Speaker 2>saying isn't this young and cooler? And he wrote back,

0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:12.040
<v Speaker 2>I think he might have left. He came back to

0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:16.680
<v Speaker 2>me basically and pointed and pointed out that apparently, if

0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:19.680
<v Speaker 2>you leave a gap at the beginning of the recording,

0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:23.000
<v Speaker 2>you're a boomer. Have you heard this?

0:34:24.719 --> 0:34:26.520
<v Speaker 1>No, I haven't heard that. That's genius.

0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:33.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so so, and I had obviously.

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:35.080
<v Speaker 1>I want to make sure it's recorded except right exactly.

0:34:36.000 --> 0:34:39.799
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, oh, man, that's so embarrassing that

0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:41.360
<v Speaker 2>I'd managed to get that so wrong. But I had

0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:45.279
<v Speaker 2>never heard that before. I'm glad you haven't, but but

0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:48.319
<v Speaker 2>I get it right. Because for my generation, when our

0:34:48.360 --> 0:34:51.200
<v Speaker 2>parents started getting mobile phones or texting or they would

0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:53.680
<v Speaker 2>look at it like it was a sort of alien

0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:56.600
<v Speaker 2>object in the hand and they wouldn't just like use

0:34:56.640 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 2>it like this. They would sort of hold it in

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:03.800
<v Speaker 2>one hand and indexinger jabbing, jabbing at it. Yeah, my

0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:08.839
<v Speaker 2>mum still like that right, and this voice note gap

0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:12.360
<v Speaker 2>at the beginning. That's the younger generation's equivalent.

0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:18.719
<v Speaker 1>That's there's so much stuff like that. Side partings, they're like, Jugy, what, yeah,

0:35:20.040 --> 0:35:23.280
<v Speaker 1>you've got to have a center barting skinny jeans, said JUGI.

0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know that about skinny jeans,

0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:29.640
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, who's got a side parting anyway.

0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:32.960
<v Speaker 1>I've been known just side barting.

0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:36.760
<v Speaker 2>But that's a weird one, isn't it to say.

0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Like long hair jugy on men and women?

0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:42.759
<v Speaker 2>Anyway? Long hairld women?

0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:44.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. If you notice all the gen z Is are

0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:46.000
<v Speaker 1>now cutting their hair really.

0:35:45.800 --> 0:35:49.359
<v Speaker 2>Short like Bob's. Yeah, sure, okay, I.

0:35:49.320 --> 0:35:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Can't really do that. I mean I could, but it

0:35:52.040 --> 0:35:53.680
<v Speaker 1>just looks terrible on me. I've done it before.

0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Genuinely speaking, are you you're are, how you're dealing with

0:35:57.480 --> 0:35:59.919
<v Speaker 2>You're not? You're still very young, but like getting old.

0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:01.920
<v Speaker 1>I think we're quite similar in age. You said that

0:36:02.320 --> 0:36:03.680
<v Speaker 1>I was a lot younger, but I don't think I

0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:07.400
<v Speaker 1>am sixty. Oh fair, I'm sixteen.

0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh there's a difference. Yeah, yeah, Do you do you

0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:13.560
<v Speaker 2>like it? Do you like getting older?

0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:16.960
<v Speaker 1>I fucking love getting to you? Holy fuck?

0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:19.839
<v Speaker 2>Is that because you hated being younger? Or is it

0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:23.840
<v Speaker 2>because you're just a more measured person than I am.

0:36:24.120 --> 0:36:29.040
<v Speaker 1>I hated being younger in my brain, obviously, I liked

0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:30.640
<v Speaker 1>it a lot more in my body because I could,

0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:33.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, do things like drink and not feel the

0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:40.200
<v Speaker 1>repercussions of it. But I just despised myself so much

0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:43.840
<v Speaker 1>and really struggled with anything to do with like self esteem.

0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:50.960
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, as I get older and older, I feel

0:36:51.000 --> 0:36:53.319
<v Speaker 1>like I'm learning more and more about the beauties of

0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:58.280
<v Speaker 1>life and they are not, you know, ripping yourself apart,

0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:02.120
<v Speaker 1>both physically and mentally at all times. Yeah.

0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:06.759
<v Speaker 2>Progress, progress, This is what it's all about. One thing

0:37:06.800 --> 0:37:09.399
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to ask you about. I didn't do much

0:37:09.440 --> 0:37:11.359
<v Speaker 2>research for this. You may have sort of.

0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:12.560
<v Speaker 1>Noticed that I actually didn't.

0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:17.040
<v Speaker 2>But I did find an old cover you did of

0:37:17.360 --> 0:37:22.239
<v Speaker 2>Edwin Collins. Like you great, Thank you you do some

0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:24.200
<v Speaker 2>good covers. You did come for us, and you did

0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Golden Scans. Bye Clackson's Edwin Collins very sort of moody,

0:37:30.920 --> 0:37:31.920
<v Speaker 2>different vibe.

0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Very different vibe.

0:37:33.200 --> 0:37:36.680
<v Speaker 2>It taught me that I've been getting a lyric wrong

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:42.200
<v Speaker 2>though in it, because you know the lyric. I've written

0:37:42.200 --> 0:37:45.520
<v Speaker 2>it down here. You know the lyric. You may you

0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:50.319
<v Speaker 2>made me acknowledge the devil in me since that song

0:37:50.400 --> 0:37:57.799
<v Speaker 2>came out? What's the devil a bit? Since that song

0:37:57.880 --> 0:38:06.000
<v Speaker 2>came out? I I thought he sang Edwin Collins the

0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:09.160
<v Speaker 2>devil in Me ah, and I thought that was the lyric.

0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:12.960
<v Speaker 2>And when I listened to your version of it, I

0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:15.920
<v Speaker 2>was there rubbing my hands before it got up, by thinking,

0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:20.640
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if Anna's gonna say Edwin Collins or if

0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:24.040
<v Speaker 2>she's gonna put her own name and make it her own. God.

0:38:24.520 --> 0:38:27.480
<v Speaker 2>And then it came to it, you didn't say Edwin

0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:31.239
<v Speaker 2>Collins at all, and I looked up the lyrics. I

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:32.600
<v Speaker 2>realized how wrong I'd been.

0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:45.280
<v Speaker 1>You made me acknowledge the devil in me. Oh God,

0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:51.759
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking murtiforically. Oh I love that.

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:54.640
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, but that is the sort of beauty of

0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:56.200
<v Speaker 2>those sort of you know, of a cover that is

0:38:56.239 --> 0:38:58.879
<v Speaker 2>so much sort of slower and.

0:38:58.280 --> 0:39:01.080
<v Speaker 1>And measured, nunciated, quiet girl.

0:39:01.320 --> 0:39:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, then you know you sort of learn learn the lyrics. Yea,

0:39:05.719 --> 0:39:06.640
<v Speaker 2>how should we end this?

0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Let's do that thing where you have to sing this

0:39:08.960 --> 0:39:12.319
<v Speaker 1>song together looking at each other's mouths. Do you know

0:39:12.360 --> 0:39:13.759
<v Speaker 1>that one? Just make it up?

0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:16.880
<v Speaker 2>You just make up the song, okay.

0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:19.040
<v Speaker 1>You have to sing it together. Who's who's leading and

0:39:19.080 --> 0:39:21.560
<v Speaker 1>who's following? You lead and I'll follow. So you just

0:39:21.600 --> 0:39:23.719
<v Speaker 1>make up a song and I will try and sing

0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:24.520
<v Speaker 1>it along with you.

0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:27.200
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe you should be making it up because

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:30.960
<v Speaker 2>I've got no musical You should lead, okay, because I

0:39:30.960 --> 0:39:32.360
<v Speaker 2>will lead us into a wall.

0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay are you ready?

0:39:34.000 --> 0:39:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:39:34.960 --> 0:39:37.920
<v Speaker 1>This was so far fun.

0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Wait one last time? Are doing? Is it starting like

0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:46.360
<v Speaker 2>that again? You give me no?

0:39:49.400 --> 0:40:04.359
<v Speaker 1>We hope you join the so lots of love from.

0:40:03.800 --> 0:40:14.279
<v Speaker 2>Stew Midnight Chats is a joint production between Loud and

0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Quiet and Atomized Studios for iHeartRadio. It's hosted by Stuart

0:40:18.560 --> 0:40:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Stubbs and Greg Cochrane, mixed and mastered by Flow Lines,

0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:25.640
<v Speaker 2>and edited by Stuart Stubbs. Find us on Instagram and

0:40:25.680 --> 0:40:28.640
<v Speaker 2>TikTok to watch clips from our recordings and much much more.

0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:32.520
<v Speaker 2>We are Midnight Chats Pod. For more information, visit loudan

0:40:32.680 --> 0:40:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Quiet dot com