1
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:15,480
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease, nine year old Charlotte Senna

2
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,439
Speaker 1: literally kidnapped off the street during a camping trip with

3
00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,320
Speaker 1: their parents just a few minutes away from home. Twenty

4
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:32,320
Speaker 1: thirty minutes Max at Late Moreau State Park miraculously, miraculously

5
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 1: found alive crammed into a cabinet in her kidnappers camper

6
00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:45,879
Speaker 1: part behind his mother's house. When police stormed the camper,

7
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:51,320
Speaker 1: we learn he was wearing his underwear, and that is

8
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,000
Speaker 1: not nearly as gross as it gets. We are now

9
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,840
Speaker 1: learning that there is a possibility that he targeted then

10
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 1: year old little girl after learning her late her late

11
00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 1: grandfather had gotten a settlement for a couple million dollars

12
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 1: all the way.

13
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:17,119
Speaker 2: Back in nineteen ninety eight. Was he misdirected?

14
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,440
Speaker 1: Did he think somehow he could get his mits on

15
00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:25,240
Speaker 1: her grandfather's money. Why was he in his underwear with

16
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,480
Speaker 1: a little girl in a camper? What more have we

17
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,559
Speaker 1: learned about him from neighbors? Has he been approaching other

18
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,720
Speaker 1: children in the neighborhood. We're learning also that he may

19
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:43,199
Speaker 1: have been involved in some sort of harassment on another

20
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,680
Speaker 1: little girl. This as we learned, police are investigating potential

21
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 1: links between him and two other cold cases involving teen girls.

22
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,600
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

23
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,480
Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation in Serious Exam

24
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:04,800
Speaker 1: one eleven.

25
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,360
Speaker 2: First of all, take a listen to this.

26
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:16,960
Speaker 3: She is the most courageous, resilient, amazing person literally I've

27
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:26,919
Speaker 3: ever encountered in my life. Just unbelievable that she is

28
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,680
Speaker 3: just I mean, if this just describes it a little bit,

29
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 3: you know, she's hugging her visitors, and she's doing it

30
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 3: to console us, not the other way around. She's just amazing.

31
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:46,560
Speaker 3: I can't even explain, like the feeling of when the

32
00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,800
Speaker 3: trooper pulled up to the campsite really fast, like wheels

33
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 3: peeled and everything, and I had we had I had

34
00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 3: just convinced that my sister in law to get something

35
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,360
Speaker 3: to eat. We hadn't eaten, you know, in almost two days,

36
00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,840
Speaker 3: I don't think. And so we were over by the

37
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,240
Speaker 3: food table and then we heard the trooper pull up

38
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,120
Speaker 3: and he jumped down. He said, we found her. And

39
00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 3: it was like just screaming, and I had I still

40
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 3: have a horse voice all these days later, I had

41
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,160
Speaker 3: no voice for several days. I screamed so much, just

42
00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:27,240
Speaker 3: thanking God that you know, thanking the police, just anyone,

43
00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:34,240
Speaker 3: but just thank God that this outcome happened. And I

44
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 3: you know, we were all just I mean, there's probably

45
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,160
Speaker 3: thirty or forty of us there. Just it was probably

46
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 3: really loud and just so beyond elated, and at that

47
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 3: moment in time, nothing else mattered, really, nothing else mattered.

48
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 3: It was just like I thought, I was dreaming.

49
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,800
Speaker 1: You are hearing Jansonna speaking to us just a few

50
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 1: moments ago. This is just Charlotte's aren't about the moment

51
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 1: that they discouraged it was actually alive. Of course, the

52
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 1: reality is so so much different for the majority of

53
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:13,680
Speaker 1: other parents whose children go missing stranger on stranger abduction.

54
00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,840
Speaker 1: Joining me the founder and director of the Cold Case

55
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,480
Speaker 1: Research Institute. You can find her at coldcasecrimes dot org.

56
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,039
Speaker 1: Host of a brand new podcast, Zone seven, Cheryl McCollum,

57
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:29,920
Speaker 1: forensic expert Cheryl. The vast majority of kidnappings are typically

58
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,840
Speaker 1: family kidnappings custodial kidnappings. When you get a stranger on

59
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,039
Speaker 1: stranger kidnapping, the likelihood the child will be killed is

60
00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:40,279
Speaker 1: so much greater.

61
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,119
Speaker 4: It's so much greater, and it's fast. Normally it's within

62
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,839
Speaker 4: the first three hours. So when we have a situation

63
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,159
Speaker 4: that is going into the third day, I mean, the

64
00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 4: likelihood that Charlotte would have ever been found alive is astonishing,

65
00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,960
Speaker 4: and it's a remarkable, remarkable day.

66
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,280
Speaker 1: Guys are learning so so much about this guy, this

67
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,760
Speaker 1: alleged kidnapper. But first I want you to hear our

68
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 1: cut thirty five from GMA. What more do we know

69
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,000
Speaker 1: about the alleged purp.

70
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,440
Speaker 5: Carol Brown lives down the street from alleged kidnapper Craig

71
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,360
Speaker 5: Ross Junior and tells us he had a suspicious encounter

72
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 5: with her nine year old grandson this summer.

73
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,120
Speaker 2: I see my grandson and.

74
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,360
Speaker 6: There's at this point standing with his back behind me,

75
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,719
Speaker 6: right over him. He said, Hey, I was just asking

76
00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 6: him if he could come help me.

77
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 2: I got a weed.

78
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,760
Speaker 5: Whacker, and Brown says when she offered to get her

79
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,040
Speaker 5: husband to help, Ross took off. She didn't know who

80
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 5: he was until this week when officers who were interviewing

81
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,280
Speaker 5: neighbors arrived at her house and heard about her grandson.

82
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,279
Speaker 5: They showed her pictures of suspects, and she says she

83
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,279
Speaker 5: recognized Ross immediately.

84
00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,840
Speaker 4: I literally almost got sick to my stomach, fell off

85
00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:58,240
Speaker 4: my chair, almost you know.

86
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 2: That's cardinal rule number one.

87
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,760
Speaker 1: With me joining us from Fox News Digital investigative crime

88
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 1: reporter Christopher Eberhardt, who's been on the story and at

89
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,520
Speaker 1: the scene since the get go.

90
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,320
Speaker 2: Chris, thank you for being with us.

91
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,800
Speaker 1: I know you're on the scene in your chock full

92
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 1: of all sorts of facts about the alleged perp.

93
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:17,760
Speaker 2: Craig Nelson Junior.

94
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: I don't know how much you are familiar with the

95
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,119
Speaker 1: dues and don'ts of telling children how to stay safe.

96
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:29,279
Speaker 1: But cardinal rule number one is, adults don't need your help.

97
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 1: Adults don't need the help of a nine year old

98
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,000
Speaker 1: little boy to start a weed whacker. Adults don't need

99
00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,960
Speaker 1: a nine year old little girl to give them directions.

100
00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,800
Speaker 1: They don't need help from a five year old in

101
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,440
Speaker 1: the front yard to tell them where their lost puppy is.

102
00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:50,560
Speaker 1: Adults do not need your help. So number one, adults

103
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,599
Speaker 1: ask you, Hey, can you just step over to my

104
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 1: car window and tell me which way is the I

105
00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,520
Speaker 1: don't know, qt quick trip. No, you turned the other way,

106
00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,640
Speaker 1: the other direction from which the car is going, and

107
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: you run like h eble l, preferably through front yards

108
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 1: and backyards and down alleys and over clothes lines where

109
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: a car cannot follow you.

110
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,640
Speaker 2: So right there. Did you hear that?

111
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 1: Christopher Everhart, Fox News Digital up to a nine year

112
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 1: old little boy. Is it a coincidence Charleen's nine years

113
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 1: old asking the boy to help him start a weed

114
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,960
Speaker 1: whacker and then when they offer to get an adult,

115
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:31,720
Speaker 1: he vanishes.

116
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, I've heard that story, Nancy, and thanks again for

117
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 7: having me. Yes, I did hear that story. There was

118
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 7: a lot of neighbors too that were kind of I

119
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,000
Speaker 7: guess they had the HEBGV. The hair on their necks

120
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 7: stood up with him, and they could never really take

121
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,560
Speaker 7: their finger on it. Like people right next door, they

122
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 7: really didn't want anything to do with it. They let

123
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 7: with them, They let the like their shrubs grow out.

124
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,720
Speaker 7: They really didn't want their children interacting any time that

125
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,960
Speaker 7: he was around. They kind of took to themselves, and

126
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,760
Speaker 7: they told me that they purposely would avoid him.

127
00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 2: You know, there's reasons for that.

128
00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,480
Speaker 1: With me. Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalysts, joining us out

129
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills. You can find her at Doctorbethany Marshall

130
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,240
Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Bethany, what is that you and I

131
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 1: have talked about it. That feeling. A lot of people

132
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:28,320
Speaker 1: call it a hunch. I think that is really avoiding

133
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 1: what that feeling really is. And I believe it's born

134
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:40,240
Speaker 1: from thousands and thousands of years of survival instinct when

135
00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,560
Speaker 1: you don't know what it is, but you have a

136
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,240
Speaker 1: horrible feeling and your instinct is to run. Whenever I

137
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:47,520
Speaker 1: see a snake, I want to run.

138
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 2: Now.

139
00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,080
Speaker 1: It could be a garter snake, it could be a

140
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 1: guard something very but that's my instinct always. I'm not

141
00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 1: one of those people that enjoy taking photos of a

142
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,199
Speaker 1: snake draped around my neck. There's a reason for that, Okay.

143
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 1: Just like these people in this neighborhood, they didn't know

144
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,960
Speaker 1: what it was. They could put their finger on it

145
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,440
Speaker 1: what they've told us, but they did not want their

146
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:11,360
Speaker 1: children near this guy.

147
00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,960
Speaker 8: You know, Nancy, the idea that this is part of

148
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 8: the survival instinct is so brilliant because think about it,

149
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,680
Speaker 8: what got hardwired into us as human beings is the

150
00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,920
Speaker 8: instinct that helps us to survive. Right, everything else falls

151
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,560
Speaker 8: by the wayside, But what helps us to survive, or

152
00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:34,319
Speaker 8: helps us to survive evolutionarily endures in all of us.

153
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,920
Speaker 8: At a cellular level, at a memory level. And this

154
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 8: guy had all the signs of being dangerous. He was disheveled,

155
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,640
Speaker 8: he had poor social skills, he was isolated, he lived

156
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,200
Speaker 8: in an odd environment, he had tarps over the window

157
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,960
Speaker 8: or behind the window, and in the camp or van

158
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,679
Speaker 8: that he lived in behind his mother's house. I mean,

159
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 8: I could go on and on and and he preferentially

160
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 8: targeted children. And you know, I see this often. It

161
00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,200
Speaker 8: can be the choir director at the church. It could

162
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,679
Speaker 8: be a teacher who insists on taking the child home

163
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:17,000
Speaker 8: to tutor them after a school I always say, nobody

164
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,280
Speaker 8: should be more interested in your children than you are.

165
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 8: Well put, nobody, not even an aunt or an uncle

166
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:24,599
Speaker 8: or a grandparent.

167
00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:46,760
Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys are so much more

168
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,720
Speaker 1: that we are uncovering now in the days that have

169
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:55,000
Speaker 1: followed the incredible, incredible recovery of nine year old Charlotte.

170
00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:00,960
Speaker 1: Of course, whatever a neighbor may feel or their instinct reactions,

171
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,360
Speaker 1: that's not allowed in court. Joining me right now, Doctor

172
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 1: Ernest Shioto, attorney, physician, biomedical engineer, toxicologist, and author of

173
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 1: Toxic Court, Medical and Legal Elements.

174
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:16,719
Speaker 2: Okay, that's a.

175
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 1: Lot you can find him at ernestphoto dot com.

176
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 2: Doctor Shaoto, thank you for being with us.

177
00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,720
Speaker 1: I mean it may mean something to us, It would

178
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,560
Speaker 1: probably mean something to geniors if they heard, Hey, this

179
00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,480
Speaker 1: guy creeped out. I wouldn't let my children near him.

180
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 1: But that cannot come into court. There's a lot more

181
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm about to tell you that can come into court

182
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:37,959
Speaker 1: if that day ever comes.

183
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 2: But not that.

184
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,600
Speaker 9: Why Well, the reason being is, as you know, all

185
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:49,680
Speaker 9: relevant evidence comes in and all relevant all unrelevant evidence

186
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:55,360
Speaker 9: stays out. So how is it relevant to his crime,

187
00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:00,719
Speaker 9: to his guilt that he was an odd lifestyle? Now

188
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:06,319
Speaker 9: that that's not to say that you shouldn't be concerned.

189
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,079
Speaker 9: People can have their intent up from in a court

190
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,000
Speaker 9: of law. There's that sort of strong shild to keep

191
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,240
Speaker 9: unrelevant evidence out, evidence that would confuse a jury and

192
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 9: lead them to make a conviction based upon based upon

193
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 9: just extraneous matters.

194
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 2: You're so right, doctor Shiodo.

195
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:37,439
Speaker 1: And of course, on appeal, the objection irrelevant actually doesn't

196
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,080
Speaker 1: get you a new trial. It may get you a

197
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 1: ruling in court in front of a jury. Yeah, move along, counselor.

198
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 1: That is irrelevant, but it's not grounds for a reversal.

199
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 2: On appeal.

200
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,560
Speaker 1: Now, if someone came up on the stand, it was

201
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 1: talking about he gave me a bad gut feeling. Okay,

202
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: number one, that can be reversible because it touches on

203
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:04,800
Speaker 1: the defendant's character reputation. Evidence is not allowed in court

204
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 1: unless and until it meets the threshold requirements of being,

205
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,679
Speaker 1: for instance, a similar transaction or a prior bad act

206
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,520
Speaker 1: that has already been agreed upon by the court.

207
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,680
Speaker 2: You can't just bring in Oh yeah, Jack over there,

208
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,560
Speaker 2: she's a big drunk. Ps. She's not. You can't bring

209
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 2: something like that into evidence.

210
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 4: No.

211
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,440
Speaker 2: Also, it cannot be testing scientifically. You got a hunch.

212
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,560
Speaker 1: Okay, that's not scientific proof. Much like a polygraph, steal

213
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,559
Speaker 1: can't come in unless both sides stipulate to.

214
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,280
Speaker 2: It upfront in a criminal trial.

215
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,360
Speaker 1: So, long story short, doctor Schado is exactly correct. But

216
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 1: aside from the creepy vibe he puts off in the neighborhood,

217
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,720
Speaker 1: what about this and our cut sixty take a listen

218
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,960
Speaker 1: to our friends at crimeonline dot com.

219
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,520
Speaker 10: Craig Ross Junior, the forty seven year old alleged kidnapper

220
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,200
Speaker 10: of Charlotte Senna, was actually accused of sexually abusing a

221
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,320
Speaker 10: twelve year old acquaintance more than year ago, according to

222
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,679
Speaker 10: the Albany Times Union. However, these allegations were not reported

223
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 10: until this past summer. Ross has since denied the girl's allegations,

224
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,360
Speaker 10: and the state police closed the investigation last month without

225
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 10: filing any charges. This according to three sources close to

226
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,800
Speaker 10: the matter, telling the Times Union.

227
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,040
Speaker 1: Okay, Christopher Eberhart Chris Eberhart joining me, investigative reporter with

228
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 1: Fox News Digital on the case from the get go.

229
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,080
Speaker 1: And hey, Chris, listen, we're not in the fifth grade

230
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:30,360
Speaker 1: where you have to answer my question.

231
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,280
Speaker 2: Please pipe up if you have more information.

232
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 1: You know, you've been out there beating the bushes on

233
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,360
Speaker 1: the streets, watching, listening, talking, writing it all.

234
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,760
Speaker 2: Down, taking pictures. You tell me anything you think we

235
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:45,200
Speaker 2: need to know.

236
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,000
Speaker 1: But specifically, what about this accused of sex assaulting a

237
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,840
Speaker 1: twelve year old girl over a year ago?

238
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,240
Speaker 2: And oh the charges were dropped.

239
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, my colleague actually was writing about this and he

240
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 7: was doing that dug against this. Obviously that should have

241
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:01,960
Speaker 7: raise some red flags right there.

242
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:07,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm concerned about this. To Cheryl McCollum, why

243
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 1: is it because the little girl wanted to back out

244
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 1: and didn't want to testify is because she didn't tell

245
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:17,440
Speaker 1: anybody for a year later. That's entirely possible. Rape victims

246
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,480
Speaker 1: very often don't tell anybody. I mean, Cheryl McCollum, I

247
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 1: know grind women could be very surprised at who they

248
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,560
Speaker 1: are that have never revealed a sex assault that happened

249
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:27,120
Speaker 1: in their youth.

250
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,280
Speaker 2: Can you believe that, Yes, I do. I know them

251
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 2: very very well.

252
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 4: Absolutely most sexual assault victims. So they're going to be

253
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,840
Speaker 4: put on trial. What they were wearing, where they were,

254
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 4: why they were alone, you know, their actions or in actions.

255
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,080
Speaker 4: But in this case, Nancy, we have a live victim

256
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 4: that can tell what this kidnapper did, what he said,

257
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,520
Speaker 4: what he demanded. That's going to be really critical. And

258
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,000
Speaker 4: now we have the grandmother that says her grandson was

259
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 4: also approached by this person on a bicycle, same person.

260
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 4: So now we have two one victim and one witness

261
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 4: that can talk about the actions of this person, and

262
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 4: hopefully other people will come forward with that twelve year

263
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 4: old in her case, what if she told a very

264
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 4: similar story he said this, he did that, he demanded this,

265
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 4: they may have to reopen that case.

266
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,880
Speaker 1: Bethey Marshall joining us and then special guests joining us

267
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 1: Shanna Burns, Haley Burns' mom, doctor Bethany. I think it's

268
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 1: I think what Cheryl just said is absolutely correct. The

269
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 1: victim will be put on trial on cross exam. But

270
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 1: I think that it's even deeper than that. For instance,

271
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 1: this little twelve year old girl, she's not thinking about

272
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 1: a trial. She just probably doesn't want to talk about it.

273
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,760
Speaker 1: There's something about it. You just don't want to talk

274
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 1: about it. It's hurtful, it's embarrassing. You feel stupid for

275
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,840
Speaker 1: filling the blank, putting yourself in that position, going along

276
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 1: with whatever the guy said, Hey, come inside and look

277
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,000
Speaker 1: at my You went inside. You blame yourself. There's a

278
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 1: myriad of reasons why victims never say a word.

279
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:14,199
Speaker 8: Nancy, because it feels humiliating and shameful, as you just

280
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 8: so articularly put so, think about your own children, John,

281
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,320
Speaker 8: David and Lucy when they were really really little. If

282
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 8: anybody mistreated them, were not nice to them, they blame themselves, right,

283
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 8: even if it was in a more benign way, like

284
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 8: you know, maybe a teacher was a little gruff at them.

285
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,679
Speaker 8: They come home and ask, you know, what do I

286
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 8: do wrong? So put that you know, increase that exponentially

287
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 8: to a rape or a sex assault, and the child

288
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,639
Speaker 8: is really going to blame themselves and then move that

289
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 8: into adulthood. Adult women and men who are raped abused,

290
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 8: they fall into that same infantile childlike, you know, mindset

291
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 8: that it must be their fault. And there's an evolutionary reason.

292
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:58,399
Speaker 11: For that too.

293
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,400
Speaker 8: You know, when we blame ourselves rather than the other person,

294
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 8: we hold onto our relationships, and holding onto our relationships

295
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,320
Speaker 8: is what helped us to survive as a species. And

296
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,240
Speaker 8: now it's become more complex and it's more than our

297
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 8: modern day society to really understanding that this allows perpetrators,

298
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,160
Speaker 8: and in a poly perpetrator like this guy who has

299
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:27,360
Speaker 8: multiple offense patterns, to really gain a foothold over our

300
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,640
Speaker 8: most vulnerable members of society.

301
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 1: Wow, you put that beautifully with me now to react

302
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 1: to what we have learned so far, and there's a

303
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 1: lot more, including two additional cold cases that are being

304
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: eyed for connections to the same part that allegedly took

305
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,959
Speaker 1: little Charlotte. Seana Burns is with me now, this is

306
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 1: Haley Burns's mom. We all remember the Haley Burns case,

307
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 1: the waiting, the praying the torture, not knowing what it

308
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,720
Speaker 1: had happened. You know, I was going to say it

309
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 1: for you, Shauna, but you tell our viewers and listeners

310
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,159
Speaker 1: what happened to Haley.

311
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 6: It all started on April the twenty eighth. She met

312
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 6: this man online in an internet forum specifically targeted to

313
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 6: people that have eating disorders, and by May the twenty third,

314
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 6: he had convinced her to leave our house and to

315
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 6: go live with him, that he understood her eating disorder

316
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 6: better than we did, that we would never understand it,

317
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 6: that we would never understand her, that we would never

318
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,880
Speaker 6: be understanding of her eating disorder, we would always want

319
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 6: her to get help for it, and that he understood

320
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,359
Speaker 6: her and that he could help her with it.

321
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 2: Well, let me understand something. Isn't it true?

322
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 1: Your little girl Haley ended up being held ca in

323
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: a cage for thirteen months.

324
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 6: Yes, that is true, so three hundred and ninety nine days. Yes,

325
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 6: that is absolutely true. Yes, and everything was fine. He

326
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 6: drove from Georgia to Charlotte four hours, she said in

327
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 6: the drive. Everything was fine. They listened to music and

328
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 6: he let her listen to whatever she wanted to. They

329
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 6: got fast food on the way, everything seemed fine, but

330
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,120
Speaker 6: the second that he closed that door, everything changed, and

331
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 6: she knew that she wasn't going to be a belief.

332
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,360
Speaker 6: He made it very clear that she was his prisoner

333
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 6: and that there was nothing that she could do, and

334
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,199
Speaker 6: that no one knew that she was there, and that

335
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 6: she would be there as long as he wanted her

336
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 6: to and when he didn't want her to be there anymore,

337
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 6: she wouldn't be.

338
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 2: Was she a fright she would be killed?

339
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 4: Oh?

340
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 6: Yes, there were many many times where he choked her

341
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 6: beyond consciousness where she felt like this is it, I'm

342
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 6: going to die. That happened many many many times hearing

343
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 6: her captivity with him. There were many different times where

344
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 6: at one point he built a bathtub of water and

345
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 6: held her under the water for he would let her.

346
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 6: He would hold her under the water until she passed out.

347
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 6: Then he would let her come up, regain consciousness, and

348
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 6: then push her back under the water. And he did that,

349
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,360
Speaker 6: said she lost track of time because it was so long,

350
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 6: but it had to be hours. So there were many

351
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 6: times where she thought that he was.

352
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 2: Going to kill her and she was starved.

353
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 6: Yes, that was definitely part of it. He was very

354
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 6: much into controlling how much she ate. She was only

355
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 6: allowed one hundred calories a day, and if she wanted

356
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 6: more than that, she had to earn those calories through favors.

357
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 2: And what do you mean by favors.

358
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 6: I mean different favors that she would do for him,

359
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 6: would earn different amounts of food.

360
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: She was raped, Yes, any sex with a teen girl

361
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: that age is statutory right, yes, whether she thinks she

362
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: went along with it. This young girl who was being

363
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 1: kept in a cage for thirteen months, given one hundred

364
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: calories a day, being waterboarded, that's rape. And I understand

365
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: where you're coming from, Miss Burns, because I know adult

366
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 1: women that still to this day have not revealed even

367
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 1: to their husbands, that they were sex assaulted when they

368
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:18,719
Speaker 1: were younger.

369
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 2: They just don't want to talk about it. I get it.

370
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: But the longer we keep acting like there's shame attached

371
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: to what happens to women, the longer it will take

372
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,719
Speaker 1: us to fight it. Your daughter was horribly mistreated one

373
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: hundred calories a day, What would that be?

374
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 2: A soda cracker?

375
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 6: She was allowed sugar free jello, and I believe those

376
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 6: are fifteen calories each. So she was two of those,

377
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 6: she was allowed to packet of cheese crackers, and sometimes

378
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 6: she was allowed baby food. But again, if she wanted

379
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,239
Speaker 6: any substantial food, she had to do sexual favors to

380
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 6: earn meat. And she's cool.

381
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: I can hardly stand to hear what you're saying. Where

382
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: is this devil straight from hal Now?

383
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 6: Well, he's in jail right now because I put him

384
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 6: there recently for violating his parole. But he will be

385
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 6: out again in February. I've actually put him in prison

386
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 6: three times for violating his parole.

387
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 1: Oh well, I will help you for the fourth time.

388
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: I can't wait to be part of that. So when

389
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: you're hearing about Charlotte's kidnap and everything that Chris Eberhart

390
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: from Fox New's Digital is telling us, how does that

391
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: strike you, miss Burns?

392
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 6: Let me tell you. I was very aware of the

393
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 6: situation because I am on TikTok and TikTok is a

394
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 6: very good resource for missing people. It is a huge, huge,

395
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,479
Speaker 6: like everyone gets those videos very quickly, so I was

396
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 6: aware of it. And when the news came that they

397
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 6: had found her, I literally hit my fricking knees, praying

398
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 6: and crying. I was so thankful for her family that

399
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 6: they had found her. So there's like no words. But

400
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 6: I also have the exact same reaction where I hit

401
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 6: my knees crying when they don't find them as well.

402
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 6: So I was so so thankful for her family that

403
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 6: they found her. But I know what comes along with that.

404
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 6: There is going to be a trial, there's going to

405
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 6: be therapist, there's going to be specialists.

406
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, you guys have just been through hell, hell

407
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: and back and now hold on just a moment, As

408
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: if that guy's not bad enough, we're now learning a

409
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: potential motive in the kidnapping off Charlotte. We don't know

410
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: whether Charlotte was right for sex assaulted.

411
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 2: We don't know what.

412
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: Happened in that camper. We know she's alive. We are

413
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: learning more about potential motive. Take a listen, our cup

414
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: fifty six our friends at crimeonline dot com.

415
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 10: Charlotte sent his grandfather sued and one a two point

416
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 10: two million dollar lawsuit settlement from a sledding accident, and

417
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 10: it was common knowledge to people in the community, according

418
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 10: to Amanda Freest. She told The Daily Mail that she

419
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 10: briefly dated Craig Rosh Junior and According to her, he

420
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 10: never wanted to work, always wanted to find people to

421
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 10: mooch off of. And she went on to say that

422
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 10: Charlotte's grandfather sued the town of Greenfield a few years

423
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 10: ago and won a couple million dollars. She thinks that

424
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 10: her ex boyfriend held Charlotte for ransom, hoping to get

425
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 10: some money because he's struggling financially.

426
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

427
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: Wow, a mooch that never wanted to work. Okay, now

428
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: take a listen, our friends at Inside Edition in Fox five.

429
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 12: Was little Charlotte forced to write her own ransom note.

430
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 12: We're learning that the ransom note left in the mailbox

431
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 12: of her parents' house demanded fifty thousand dollars and that

432
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 12: the suspect may have made the girl write it.

433
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 13: Craig Nelson Junior, that's the name of the suspect. He

434
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 13: is charged with first degree kidnapping and is being held

435
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 13: at the Saratoga County Jail while investigators look to see

436
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 13: if he may be linked to any other cases. Authority

437
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 13: say he was living in a camper on his mother's property.

438
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 13: That's where police found Charlotte Senna crammed inside a cabinet.

439
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 13: They were able to track Ross down with fingerprints found

440
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 13: on a ransom note that was left at the little

441
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 13: girl's home. According to The Times Union, the ransom note

442
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 13: allegedly asked for fifty thousand dollars, and Ross may have

443
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 13: made the little girl write that note. Family friend Patrick

444
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 13: Kaine says.

445
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 12: It's obvious that this person had some premeditated aspirations and.

446
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 13: That's one things investigators are looking into.

447
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, Chris Eberhart joining me, Fox News Digital investigative

448
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: Crime reporter, Chris, what can you tell me about potential motive?

449
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 2: And is it true this guy.

450
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: Basically never worked a day in his life and wanted

451
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: to loot off everybody else.

452
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's really it's one of the neighbors actually grew

453
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 7: up with him and they and he's always said that

454
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 7: he seasonly, like real early in the morning, maybe four

455
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 7: forty five, five o'clock, but and he just assumed he

456
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 7: was going to work. But he actually never knew what

457
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 7: he did if he actually did work. We gave a

458
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 7: confirmation he did not work in the opposed to service,

459
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 7: so nobody barely knows what he actually was doing financially.

460
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 7: So all of these you know, with Charlotte and any

461
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 7: other potential connections any other case. Was it special motivation,

462
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 7: was it financial motivation? That stuff hasn't been uncovered yet.

463
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: Now I understand that according to neighbors and the ex

464
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: girlfriend quote, he never wanted to work. He always wanted

465
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: to find people to move chob, whether it was girlfriends

466
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: or making his mother feel bad and supporting him. Okay,

467
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: so there was a huge settlement over sledding.

468
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: And Nancy, oh yeah place.

469
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm sorry, Nancy. There's thing too that I had

470
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 7: learned even growing up as a child. He and his

471
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 7: mother did not get along. I had not been able

472
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 7: to talk to the mother. I don't know if she

473
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 7: has the lawyer or anything, but this is just from

474
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 7: what I've been told growing up, is that she never

475
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 7: even allowed him in the house. That's why there was

476
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 7: always a trailer when he was young. That trailer was

477
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 7: always outside that's where he was living. And a childhood

478
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 7: friend they had he gave me an anecdote where the

479
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 7: suspect of this cape he cut his hand, which is

480
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 7: when he was like eight or ten something like that.

481
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 7: He was bleeding. They went to go to the mom's

482
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 7: house state she wouldn't open the door and Supposedly Greg

483
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 7: Ross banged on the door with his boulder and she

484
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 7: wouldn't She still wouldn't come out. She finally did to

485
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 7: go a band aid out the door and then just

486
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,239
Speaker 7: closed the door. So this a friend actually bore him

487
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 7: over to his parents' house, and his parents, you know,

488
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 7: taped him up and you know, treated the wound and

489
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 7: stuff like that. So I don't know how that relationship

490
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 7: was with his mother.

491
00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace speaking of his family. Our

492
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: friends over at TMZ dug this up.

493
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: Listen, we are his kids. We honestly understand the gravity

494
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: of this situation.

495
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 4: I don't care what you can be.

496
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 7: Okay, if you're on a public broke, I have one

497
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 7: hundred percent aware of the right. But he's in jail.

498
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 10: We want nothing to.

499
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 4: Do with then.

500
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 5: I can give a book if the dude dropped back.

501
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 13: To tomorrow, I always I can care Let So you're

502
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 13: saying you want nothing to do with them, No.

503
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 5: No, no, he's disgusting, he's gross.

504
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 6: Guy.

505
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 13: I can care less.

506
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: That's that's why I like, all right, gotcha, I can

507
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: give all that.

508
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 13: To ask what happened.

509
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: So this apparently is his son speaking to TMZ. We

510
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: are his children. We understand the gravity of the situation.

511
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: We want nothing to do with him. I can't give

512
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: an f if the dude drops dad right now. He's disgusting,

513
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: he's gross. He should die.

514
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, Nancy, I was there.

515
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: Okay, I believe that says it all. Chris Everheart and Champion.

516
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 7: Sorry, Yeah, I was actually there. I spoke to the son.

517
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 7: I was there during that interaction. He was He was

518
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 7: visibly the son, He was visibally hostile. He clearly did

519
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 7: not want anything to do it. This was right after,

520
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 7: you know, just for context, there was a lot of

521
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,239
Speaker 7: police in that area. They went through, they came out

522
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 7: with a couple of boxes. I'm assuming they had some

523
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 7: kind of warrants to go through that house. It used

524
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 7: to be owned by the suspect. The kids were living there.

525
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 7: I talked to the sun myself and he said the

526
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,959
Speaker 7: same thing that he wanted him to die in prison.

527
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 7: So there's clearly some hostility there. And then my colleague

528
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 7: was also working the case with me, Mike Ruiz, went

529
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 7: and found the ex wife, and the ex wife just

530
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 7: told him, you know, go away. She had nothing to

531
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 7: say about him.

532
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, none of that's good. And I find

533
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: it really hard to believe that the children and the

534
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: mom feel the same way about this guy. They all

535
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: feel the same way about him for no reason. I mean,

536
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: are they the ones that are wrong and he's the one,

537
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: the only one that's right?

538
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 8: You know, Nancy, when a parent doesn't bond with the child,

539
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 8: the child is never bonded with the parent.

540
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 9: You know.

541
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 8: His adults come to my practice often and say, why

542
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 8: don't I care about my parent? I mean, I just

543
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 8: don't really think about them at all, And often, upon exploration,

544
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 8: I realized that the parent was never bonded with them,

545
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 8: or even abuse them in some way. I think even

546
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 8: this guy's this perpetrator's prolific interest in children and abusing

547
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 8: and exploiting them in multiple ways. One of the guests wondered,

548
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 8: what was this for financial gain, for sexual gain?

549
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 6: It was for all of it.

550
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 8: He liked to exploit children in every way. He could.

551
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 8: Imagine what he did to his own children, Imagine what

552
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 8: he did to his wife. It was probably a house

553
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 8: of hers. You know, there's one. You know, his wife

554
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 8: has to have a domestic charge against him, right where

555
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 8: he choked her and threw her glasses at her and

556
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 8: you know, pushed her, and you know so, So this

557
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 8: guy was an abuser through and through. And by the way,

558
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 8: I think his adult son probably has had brewing animosity

559
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 8: and hatred towards his father ever since childhood. And all

560
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 8: of a sudden, when the police and the public confirm

561
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 8: what an a hole your dad is, it galvanizes your

562
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 8: own feelings. So he was galvanized to express how he

563
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 8: really feels.

564
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: Is this guy Craig Ross Junior connected to other cold

565
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: cases involving young teen girls? Listen to Our cut fifty

566
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: seven a our friends at crime Online.

567
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 10: Eighteen year old Jennifer Hammond, her friends called her Moonbeam,

568
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 10: had a job working with the company that sold magazines

569
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 10: door to door. Now the salesforce was staying in a

570
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 10: local Albany, New York hotel. Jennifer was dropped off to

571
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 10: work in the Creek and Pines mobile home park in Milton,

572
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 10: selling magazine subscriptions door to door. Returning at the set

573
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 10: place and time, all of her coworkers were shocked when

574
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 10: Hammond didn't meet them. Jennifer Hammond never returned to the

575
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 10: hotel in Albany, and none of her coworkers ever saw

576
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 10: her again.

577
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: What happened to Jennifer? Take a listener.

578
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 10: Cut fifty nine, Jennifer Hammond was identified with forensic testing

579
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 10: and dental records, and her death was classified a homicide,

580
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 10: finding it to be more than just a coincidence that

581
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 10: two young women around the same age from the same

582
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 10: area had been found murdered in such close proximity. Saratoga

583
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 10: County Sheriff Michael Zurlo said, investigators believe quote there is

584
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 10: a strong possibility unquote the deaths of Hammond and White

585
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 10: are related to the same unidentified suspect, in part because

586
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 10: of the close proximity of the locations where they were

587
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 10: last seen and also where their remains were found. The

588
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 10: Hammond and White murders remain unsolved, but now. Criminal profiler

589
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 10: and president of Stock Incorporated, John Kelly says the best

590
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 10: predictor of present or future behavior is past behavior. Based

591
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 10: on the recent kidnapping of Charlotte Cena, Kelly and others

592
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 10: want to know more about the past behavior of Craig

593
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 10: Ross Junior.

594
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so we've heard about Jennifer Hammon, who's Christina White

595
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 1: lessened to fifty seven b Two.

596
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 10: Years later, nineteen year old Christina White last seen by

597
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 10: her mother at the home they shared at the Stockade

598
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 10: Mobile Home Park. Stockade Mobile Home Park where Christina White

599
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 10: was last seen, as less than two miles from the

600
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 10: Creek and Pines Mobile Home Park where Jennifer Hammon was

601
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 10: last seen, and a thousand feet from the Creek and

602
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 10: Pines Mobile Home Park on Barrett Road. That's where Craig

603
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 10: Ross Junior's mother has lived for the last three decades

604
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 10: and more. Nine months after she was last seen by

605
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 10: her mother, Christina White's remains were found in the Daytown

606
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 10: Forest in Greenfield. Christina had been stabbed multiple times, and

607
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 10: due to the state her body was in, it is

608
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 10: believed she was killed shortly after her disappearance. White's death

609
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 10: was officially classified as a homicide. Meanwhile, Jennifer Hammond remained

610
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 10: missing until a hunter found a human skull on Lake

611
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 10: Desolation for Us in Greenfield. The skull and three teeth

612
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 10: were enough for a forensic team to identify Jennifer Hammond.

613
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 10: Her remains were found just over three miles from where

614
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 10: Christina White's remains were found.

615
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: Three miles from where Christina whites remains were found. Okay,

616
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 1: Cheryl mccollam, Cold case investigator, Jump in, Nancy.

617
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 4: You've got a tight area here. You've got less than

618
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 4: twelve miles where all of these things have occurred, mobile

619
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 4: home parks, RV's woods, They're all connected. They all have it,

620
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 4: as you said earlier, like a similar transaction. Again, we

621
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 4: now have a live victim. Did he threaten her with

622
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 4: a knife. We're going to be able to learn that

623
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 4: we have the young boy. The perpetrator was on a bicycle.

624
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 4: This person has limited their area of hunting to a

625
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,439
Speaker 4: very small track. It is imperative that they look at

626
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 4: all missing persons and homicide victims that have been recovered

627
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 4: in this area. Again, now that we have a face,

628
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 4: other witnesses and other victims can now come forward knowing

629
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 4: that he's in jail, now knowing that there's this case

630
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 4: being built, There's other cases being built. But this is

631
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 4: very critical, and I want to say one more thing

632
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 4: about the ransom if I can. This is important to

633
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 4: me that this child, Charlotte, was taken late Sunday night,

634
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: after dinner, ain't no bank open. Then he kept her

635
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 4: all day Sunday, no bank is open. He doesn't put

636
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 4: the ransom in the mailbox till Monday at four twenty

637
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 4: in the morning. The bank ain't going to be open

638
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 4: till nine. And who can get fifty thousand dollars cash?

639
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 4: Even if you have great wealth, usually that money's tied up.

640
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 4: It's in Scott's or bonds or a four oh one k.

641
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 4: Most people can't just get fifty thousand dollars out of

642
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 4: the bank. I question whether that was his motive or

643
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 4: that was an afterfall after he took her, because everything

644
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 4: he did was set up beforehand. He had a tarb

645
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 4: over the windows of the trailer, He had a vehicle,

646
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 4: he knew where to park in that state park so

647
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 4: that when whoever Charlotte or whatever child came around that

648
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 4: track alone, he could snap them, put them in the car,

649
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 4: get them back to the RV, completely unseen, and lock

650
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 4: them in a cabinet. That is premeditated, set beforehand. And

651
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 4: the other victims, all three, the young boy and the

652
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 4: two girls, they were all crimes of opportunity.

653
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 11: I totally agree, Nancy, joining me right now.

654
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupre, who shot to the national forefront during

655
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: the Alex and Murdog trial, forensic pathologist, medical examiner and

656
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: detective author of money, mischief and murder. The murdog saga,

657
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: Doctor Dupree, thank you for being with us. What if

658
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: anything can we learn from those two bodies? Again, for

659
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, Charlotte sent us kidnapped

660
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: suspect Craigross Junior now facing scrutiny in two unsolved murders.

661
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: Was he involved? Was he not involved?

662
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: We don't know, but they're right there within a few

663
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: miles of where Charlotte was taken.

664
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 2: Go ahead, doctor dupre Well, Anthey.

665
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 11: A couple of things. I totally agree. I don't think

666
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 11: this was the motive up for this was ransom. It

667
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 11: just doesn't make sense to shell said. But also I

668
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 11: want to say one thing. You know, we talk about

669
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 11: what she went through, and we always have to remember

670
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 11: that no matter what the person had to do, they're

671
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 11: still alive and whatever they did was the absolute right

672
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 11: thing to do. So, having said that, going back to

673
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 11: the bodies, we can tell so much from the bodies.

674
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 11: For example, we can tell that they were stabbed and

675
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 11: that would be from injuries to the bone itself. We

676
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 11: can tell other things, you know, approximately how long they

677
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 11: were there and that kind of thing. So the body

678
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 11: can tell us so much information if we just look

679
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 11: forward and not what to look for.

680
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: Guys, we are talking about the case of Charlotte Senna.

681
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: The kidnapping suspect, Craig Ross Junior behind bars. Now we

682
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds.

683
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: Goodbye friend,