WEBVTT - The Christine Collins Story 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.440 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.919 and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant right there, and Jerry's Well, 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:18.880 she was just here a second ago and she's pretty 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.280 much here. She left so recently that she might as 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.279 well still be here. So this is still stuff you 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.960 should know. Yeah, true Crime Edition, we do these occasionally. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.959 I just dropped on my knees to thank the creator 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:39.840 that you didn't say a dish. Yeah, true Crime Edition 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.840 we do these sometimes we uh, without getting a bandwagoning. 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:47.320 We've kind of always done them here and there. Hey update, Yeah, 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.320 I'm sure we'll get a million emails between now and then. 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.559 But the chow Chilla bus kidnapper, did you see has 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.120 been granted parole? Yeah? I did see that. So that 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.120 was one of our recent true crime episodes. And we've 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.000 had a few people right in. It's the guys. Looks 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.679 like he's getting out, yeah, the last one, right, the 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.480 other two are out. The last one, Yeah, the main 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.319 jerk with that all the money, he was the main 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:15.679 jerk for sure. So um, this is true crime too. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.039 As you were saying, it probably won't be an update 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.200 on this one. I don't think so that it was 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.680 most possible, but probably not. The most recent update was 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.480 a movie from two thousand and eight called Changeling, not 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.479 the Changeling, which is maybe the greatest horror movie ever made, 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:36.280 starring George C. Scott back in Man, that's a good movie. 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.360 This is a totally different kind of movie called Changeling 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.360 and started Angelina Joe Lee, who was directed by Clint 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.559 Eastwyd And I watched I watched it last night, made 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.680 it through the whole movie and still had an hour 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:53.080 to go. Yah, it is pretty long. Um, it was okay. 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:54.680 I thought it was had a little bit of a 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.040 movie the weak quality to it definitely because some of 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.680 the acting was way for the top. Yeah, I mean 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.880 I give it medium, Like I give it a two 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.519 and a half thumbs out of five. Okay, what would 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.200 you give it? You know, I would probably give it 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.919 precisely the same amount of thumbs. Like it's watchable, it's 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.720 engrossing and all that, but it's also hard to look 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.600 past some of its flaws. No exit, I'll tell you that. 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:27.280 And there was some parts that like it's sort of 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.640 hard to parse out the you know, the dramatic license, uh, 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.520 and the fictionalized aspects of it with the true story. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.120 And I even tried to look up some to see like, 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:39.480 well did this happen? And it seemed like it was 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:41.880 verified that it did. But then I was like, or 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:46.760 is this person just writing from seeing this movie the Ladder? 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.280 Probably so, so we might mention a few of those 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:51.919 in there. Yeah, because he did take a tremendous amount 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.160 of license and just little details, nothing that ultimately changed 0:02:55.240 --> 0:03:00.560 the story, but you know the important stuff when he's 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:04.880 reunited with his mom. No, well we'll point it out 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:06.760 at the end. You'll just stick around for that, please do, 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.240 because like I said, I split, like before the end, 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.920 I was like, I'm going to bed. I'm okay. That 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.760 was I thought that was a joke about it. I 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.120 mean I was joking. I would have been blown away 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.760 if you've been like yeah, but but I mean small things. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:23.720 So we'll get into it a little bit. We'll just 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.000 pick on Clint Easwood from time to time for fun. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.600 So what we're talking about is a is a disappearance um, 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.480 a very sad case of a famous disappearance that took 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.480 place in nine in Los Angeles, back when you could 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.720 like pick oranges on any given street. Back there. It 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.920 was still a still weird town, Is that true? Um? 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.560 It was a town trees in their yard, sure, but 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.920 not everybody where everybody. Yeah, okay, thank you for that. 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.720 But I was trying to find its its feet, it's purpose, 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.320 it's point. It was a freaky little town back then. 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.120 Still is a freaky town, but it was really freaky 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.840 for some reason to me, Like the n twenties in 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.960 Los Angeles is as weird as it gets for that city. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.520 And this is a this is it was during that 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.880 time that this boy went missing, a nine year old 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.680 named Walter Collins, and that in and of itself is 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:18.400 extremely sad. But the different twists and turns in horrors 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.080 of this case and not necessarily horrors in the traditional 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.120 true crime sense. So there were some of those, but 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:28.800 just bizarre horrors, things that just shouldn't have happened. And 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.279 that just compounded to the tragedy of this case. It 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.560 makes it one of the most unique, I think true 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.640 crime cases in American history. If you ask me, yeah, 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:43.160 and trigger warning if serious harmful gas lighting triggers you 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.680 then skip the episode or hold onto your hats because oh, boy, 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:52.599 it's infuriating. Yes, all right, I guess we should start 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:58.320 with the simple fact that in March mother named Christine 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.360 Collins uh told her nine year old son he could 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.440 go to the movies and gave him a dime to 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.679 go do so, and he disappeared or she was called 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:13.440 in to work and he disappeared from their home. If 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.960 you're Clint East, were just making stuff up, that's right. 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.359 A little bit of backstory here. Um, she was a 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.920 single mom in a sense that her husband was in prison, 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.760 Walter's father, Colin Sr. Whose real name, it turns out, 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.320 was Walter Anson. She had married about ten years prior 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.360 to Walter Junior's disappearance, and did not know that he 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:40.040 had a criminal background. Uh it were a different name now, 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:45.919 and he was in ne put in prison for uh 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.799 multiple armed robberies. And I believe the sentence was about 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.400 five to ten years. Yeah, And I mean, like that 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:55.960 was just totally unbeknownster. She thought she had a good one, 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.680 or at least a mediocre one, not an armed robber 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:00.680 who was gonna get sent a full awesome. I think 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.320 mediocre was about what you could shoot for sure. Um, 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:10.440 So she was the sole breadwinner in the house. She 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:15.160 was supporting their son by herself. Um, and this is 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:20.839 just a generally unplanned life. But from all accounts, including 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.720 Clint Eastwood's, um, she was a good She was a 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:25.960 good mom who was making her way and just kind 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.080 of took took the hand that was dealt to her 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.560 and was making making it work as best she could. Right. 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:33.840 And a little more backstory to kind of color what 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.000 was going on in terms of the Los Angeles Police 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.320 Department at the time, because that figures in and a 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:42.600 very key way here is they had just right before 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:48.400 his disappearance had been recently fairly um exposed slash embarrassed 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:54.000 by another kidnapping case in December of seven when a 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.760 twelve twelve year old named Marion Parker was a very 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:02.039 prominent banker's daughter was kidnapped, held for ransom, and then 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.120 when it came time to do the money exchange, he 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.719 just dumped her her body, her dead body on the 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.600 lawn and was arrested and convicted of murder, which was 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.360 a big black eye and staying on the l a 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:18.320 p DS reputation. Yeah, it was a like her her case, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.720 I mean, like we bring it up just to kind 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.080 of set the tone like this happened and was in 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.040 all the papers. It was a huge piece of news 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:31.480 in Los Angeles, like just a month or two before um. 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.080 But also like if you it's a really if you're 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.720 into true crime, like that case is really heartrending. It's 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.760 really awful too in and of itself. But of course 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:44.480 you can imagine that Miriam Parker's case is you know, 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.440 front and center on Christine Colin's mind. Then she realizes 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:52.200 that Walter has not come home from the from the movies. Yeah, 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.680 so sort of a double whammy. It's it's on every 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.200 parent's mind and l A p. D is gotten mud 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.400 on their face or egg or do you. Plus also 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.400 they seem to be widely considered and extremely corrupt, but 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.720 then also just as bad, if you know, just as bad, 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.080 almost as bad incompetent. I guess if you have a 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.640 police force that is well meaning but incompetent, like maybe 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:15.600 the Keystone Cops or something, it's hard to get mad 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.840 at them all the time. But if they're corrupt and incompetent, 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.680 like that's about as bad a combination you can ask 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.160 for in a police force. Incompetent police force is only 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.840 funny in slapstick comedies. It's not funny in real life, no, 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.640 but but yeah, no not it's funny on the indy 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:38.640 grific shoe. Yeah, but I mean, ultimately, was Barney incompetent, 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.040 Like you dropped his gun and stuff. But he always 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:45.440 got the bad guy, didn't he. That's pretty funny he 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.199 dropped his gun and stuff. But is that really incompetent? 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.280 I mean, if the if the it all turned out 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.080 well in the end, is all I'm saying, you know, 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.720 that justifies the incompetence, because all it's gonna do is 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.080 drop and go off and shoot the dinner bell and 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:04.240 he's gonna go dinner already. A right dinner happens early 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:06.360 and the criminals sits down to dinner with the family. 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:08.679 Nothing like an Andy Griffith show reference to just keep 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:13.320 us popular with the kids. Yeah, where are we? Please 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:19.920 stop a kid? I'm sorry we are, Chuck to answer 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.720 your question, um, at about the point where Christine has 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.640 just realized that Walter is missing, which is a terrible 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.760 point to be at, it is, she goes to the cops. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:32.520 I'm not sure if this happened in real life, but 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:34.160 in the movie there was a twenty four hour wait 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.760 period before they would do anything because kids usually come home, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.160 and I think that has been the case historically and 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.560 a lot of missing uh person's cases, right, they will 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:48.400 delay it for a minute. Yeah, you know. I wondered though, how, um, 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.120 what anachronism that is in the movie. I don't know 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.720 if that was like something that came later or whatever, 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.440 but that's like the first thing Angeline and Jolie is 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.920 told when she calls the cops that you gotta wait 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.400 twenty four hours. Whether that happened or not. The Los 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.800 Angeles Times had an article about the case back in 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:10.800 and they said that the lap D mounted national search. 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.920 It was a big deal. So whether it started twenty 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.480 four hours or later, whatever, there was like a big 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.320 search for Walter. It wasn't just like, you know whatever. 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.880 At some point it picked up and became a legitimate, 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:28.440 like missing child case. Yeah. Um. There were a few tips. 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.720 One of the best ones was from a gas station 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.600 worker in Glendale said they saw someone who looked like 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.880 Walter in the back of a car hiding under some 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:42.320 newspapers right right, but only his face wasn't covered, so 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.880 it was like the worst covering job of all time. 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:47.480 The worst covering job or the kid managed to wriggle 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.520 out or something. Okay, well, yeah, I guess that could 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.920 be the case too. But the driver was described as 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.920 Italian looking. Uh. And then there was another report of 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.679 a quote foreign looking end quote couple roaming Walter's neighborhood 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:04.200 looking suspicious in the days before the disappearance. So the 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.200 first you know, posters that were put up by the 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.640 cops said to be on the lookout for a middle 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.040 age Italian man and a very small woman. Yeah. So, 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.000 and Walter's dad said, hey, hey, I don't want to 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.280 be left out of this. I want to contribute. What 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.000 if it's one of the enemies I've made here in prison. 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.840 Apparently he worked in the kitchen and part of his 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.959 responsibility was snitching on other prisoners. I guess they kind 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.840 of came with kitchen duty. Um. So he he was like, 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.480 of course I've made some enemies here there. Maybe it's 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.920 one of them exacting revenge. And that apparently was the 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.360 lead that the police followed, but it didn't go anywhere. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:42.920 So Walter Senior can go step back out for a 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.280 little while of the picture. Yeah, I mean, it is 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.720 kind of stymying at this point because they didn't have money, 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.440 so it wasn't a clear case of ransom like it 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.000 was with the the wealthy banker. Uh So, I don't 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.480 know if that's better or worse for a parent to 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.280 have money and think it's probably a ransom situation. Shian. 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.079 It seems like it's probably more distressing in this case 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:05.920 because your child was just gone and like what could 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:10.160 they possibly want and return? Yeah? Um yeah so but 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.200 also I could see it giving you hope to that 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.800 maybe he's just missing, maybe ran away or something like that. 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.320 But that the reports of that couple and then from 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.160 the gas station attendant to it certainly didn't help ease 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.839 any concerns that he had been kidnapped for one reason 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:25.640 or another. And that seems to be the premise that 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.240 everybody was moving on. That he wasn't just missing, he 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.760 hadn't just run away, um, And if Angelina Jolie is 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.720 to be believed, um, his mother would have known that 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.160 he wouldn't have just run away, that he he would 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.120 have had to have been taken against as will. Right. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:45.600 So they've I think about five months go by. Uh, 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:50.160 no more big leads, no clues, no um forward movement 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.520 of the case really and then all of a sudden, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.480 out of nowhere, and it's a very dramatic moment in 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.319 the film. Obviously. Uh, they call up Christine and said, 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:03.480 we found your son. He's in Illinois, cab Illinois. Uh, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.080 he's doing fine. All you gotta do is is scrape 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:08.960 together the money to pay for him to come back. 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.679 When I was like, really and that was actually true 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:17.120 and they were reunited. Uh. Dave Bruce, who utput us together, 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.720 said it was in a juvenile hall, but in the 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.200 movie it's by a train at a train station, because 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:32.640 that looks great on film. It does. Yeah, the cook happens, josh. Um, 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:36.559 something really terrible happened in the film and in real life. Um, 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:41.920 when Christine Collins saw her son, she said, that's not 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.160 my son. Yeah, that's someone else. I don't I don't 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.600 know who that is. But I think the quote was, 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.680 I don't think that's my son. And here's where the 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.600 gas lighting begins, by the way. Yeah, so the villain 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:58.280 the one of the villains. But um, yeah, one of 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.040 the villains of the story is a guy in m J. J. Jones. 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:02.800 He was a police captain with the L A p. D. 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.560 And he was in charge of the juvenile crimes unit, 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.280 so he had this missing person's case of Walter on 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.880 his hands. So he was there presiding over this reunion because, um, 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:15.560 you know, the l a p D could use the 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.599 good press, and it was a happy story. It was 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.360 a huge story, and this was definitely more of a 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.640 feather in the cap for the l a p D 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.600 versus a black eye for the l a p D. 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.600 Like the Miriam Parker case was. Um, so of course 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.000 they wanted to play it up. So it did not 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.040 settle well with Captain J. J. Jones that the mother 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.600 of this boy, who was supposed to be happy and 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:43.040 crying and and thanking the l a p D. Was saying, essentially, 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.280 you brought the wrong kid. This is not my kid. Yeah, 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.480 so he starts gaslighting right out of the gate. Uh, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.920 in the room, saying oh no, no, no, no, mom, 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.720 you're just not recognizing your son. He's been away for 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:01.520 five months. Uh. He's acting weird. And in the movie 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:05.320 it's hysterical because I guess it was a directorial decision 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:09.160 to have the boy be sort of stilted because you know, 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.240 he's not the real son. But in the movie he's 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.000 just like, hello, I am Walter and you are my mother, 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.000 and I would like to hug you. Now basically, yeah, 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.000 it was really pretty bad. But maybe that was the point. Um. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.920 But anyway, they he starts gas flaring. Understand, No, he's changed, 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.680 he's lost some weight. Uh, he's gonna return to normal. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.720 And what was the classic line was try the boy out. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:38.920 Just take him home and try him out for a 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.040 little while and maybe, you know, see if you like him, 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.280 maybe he'll fit. Um. But yeah, that set off this, 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.360 like like you said, you know, campaign of gaslighting. That 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:53.880 Christine was clearly you know, distressed, fraught, Um was still 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.040 recovering from the shock, and that Walter had changed in 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.680 some ways out on this five months that he endured 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.880 at having god knows what, you know, and being involved 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.440 in god knows what, and that those two things put 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.680 together or making her think that that this wasn't her kid, 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.760 and there's um she finally relents, actually and Dave tries 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.320 to tries to kind of gas at what what it was, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:20.880 and I think he kind of paints a really good 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.280 picture of you know, the pressure from the police, the press, 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.080 they're taking photographs, everybody wanting this to be a happy occasion, 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.000 a little boy looking up at her. I'm sure wanting 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.080 this kid to be her little boy, but also being 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.000 repelled by the idea that that, you know, she's gonna 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.760 take some other kid as her boy. She did, she 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.200 did relent there at the juvenile detention center and basically 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.800 agreed to take the strange kid home with her. Uh. 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.800 She agreed to try him out. And there's a photo 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:56.280 of Christine Collins with this boy, UM that's pretty famous. 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:57.920 You can find it very easily, I think if you 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.280 just type in Christine Collins um and you see her face, 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.520 the expression on her face, and you know the backstory. 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.720 It's one of the most heartbreaking photos you'll ever see. 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.200 When you know the full story, It's it's awful because 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.359 you can see all of these thoughts that are in 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.960 her mind, like and just the the the just the 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.800 terrible everything that she's going through just right there on 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.439 her face. But she's also trying to smile in a 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.400 way too, and that little boy is just beaming, grinning 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.600 from ear to ear. It's a really weird juxtaposition. Yeah, 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.520 it's very distressing to look at. Uh. And the gas 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.560 lighting continued with the psychologists later and the doctors who 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.879 had examined the boy, Uh psychology and nineteen I mean, 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.960 feel what you feel about it now. But you know, 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.320 they basically said, and this is a quote, he has 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:52.440 certain aisles of memory that are apparently blank. And Uh 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.720 then went on to say, you know, he he doesn't 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.199 remember any of the toys he played with, and he 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.400 doesn't remember any of the people from before, his neighbors 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.720 and stuff, or any of his classmates. But this will 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.239 all pass and and he's your son, and he'll be 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.720 he'll be normal pretty soon. Yeah, and she knows it's 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.280 not her kid. Like that's what's so maddening, is that 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:18.040 it's a parent and their child. Right. Yeah, So imagine 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.760 like being in that position where everyone is telling you, like, no, 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:25.000 you're wrong, not just this one police captain, but the people. 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.600 The police captain is basically hired and recruited to come 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.440 back his his point in the l a p d 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.320 S position up that you're wrong, this is your kid. 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.640 Stop stop being a weirdo and just accept this kid. 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.720 And also, and um, the movie really does a good 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.520 job of hitting this uh several times. If the if 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:44.560 the l a p d Thinks that they brought Walter back, 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:46.800 and that's their position. They're not out looking for Walter, 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.119 so therefore who who knows where Walter is? And like 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.960 just more and more time is being wasted while they're 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.480 not looking for Walter because they're saying this kid is Walter, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.800 even though she knows that this is not Walter. So 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.280 I just I can't imagine having been in that position 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.320 and just the you know, just when you're stressed out 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.879 about normal stuff like work stuff or whatever like that, 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.200 the attention you can have in your in your shoulders, 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.360 around your neck, and like just how your face can 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.760 just feel weird sometimes and you're you can get headaches 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.160 and stuff like that. Imagine having that starting to creep 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.439 up and develop and compound because that's your situation, and 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:28.760 then having no framework, no guidelines, no nothing to help 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.040 you say, oh well, when this happens, when somebody says 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:33.880 that a kid that's not your kid is your kid, 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.560 this is what society is prescribed for you to do 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.840 to kind of as a release or an outlet. Having 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:40.879 nothing like that and having to figure out what to 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:45.160 do on your own. I cannot imagine the turmoil that 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.320 Christine Collins went through just from this part, all right, 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.040 I think we should take a break. It's a nice 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:56.240 robust first act. Yes, yeah, yeah, and we'll come back 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:57.800 and talk a little bit about what happened once you 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:25.840 got this boy home right after this. All right, So 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:30.000 Christine Collins has fake Walter Collins back at her house 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.480 and she uh, and this is one of those things 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:36.679 where it was a scene in the movie that I 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.000 looked up, and I did see another article that mentioned this, 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:42.200 but I couldn't tell if it was taken from the 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.600 movie or not because I didn't find it elsewhere. But 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.280 one of the big giveaways to her was when she 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.879 was bathing the boy that he was circumcised, and I 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:53.879 couldn't find out if that was really the case, um, 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.800 which is frustrating. But in the movie, you know, when 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.600 she tells this to the officer to to uh what's 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:06.520 his name owns, he basically says, you know, it's amazing 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.080 what people might do to a kid, like basically gaslighting, 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:12.399 further saying like, well, he was circumcised while he was 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:16.359 after he was abducted during these five months. But I 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:18.359 don't know if that's true or not, and that's really frustrating. 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:20.800 What I do know is that she knew it was 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:24.720 a charade. Uh, she got dental records. She went to 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.560 his teachers and like everyone, you know, these teachers who 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.919 spent every day with them during the school year. We're like, no, 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:35.000 this isn't Walter. Obviously. Yeah. So she got people who 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.199 were who were not only willing to back her up, 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.360 but we're like, we're willing to testify to this. Here's 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.359 this kid's dental records. Here's Walter's dental records. Apparently Walter 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:46.959 head fillings and this kid had never seen a dentist 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:51.560 before I saw somewhere. Um. And she went back, after 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.439 I think three weeks of trying to make this work 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.399 three weeks, she went back to um, Captain Jones and said, 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:01.879 here's the gental records. Here are all these people who say, no, 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.800 this is not Walter. And Captain Jones had a very um, 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:09.000 unpleasant response to that, to being challenged by this again, 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:12.639 this thing that he had decided was settled. Um. He 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:17.720 basically charged her with being a terrible mother. He said, Um, 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.120 you are the most cruel hearted woman I've ever known. 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:25.040 Accused her of trying to shirk her her motherly duties. Um, 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.480 and to get the state basically to raise her kid, 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.320 as if she didn't want her her son anymore, so 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:33.040 now she'd seen a chance to kind of pawn them off. 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:39.200 Um And as she persisted during I guess this conversation, um, 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.160 he I guess, brought the hammer down. He like played 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.720 an even harder card than continuing gas lighting. He had 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:53.200 her committed to the state hospital against her will. Yeah, 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:55.960 I mean, I think it's that deal where like, you 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.160 get caught in a lie, so you just keep lying. 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:01.560