WEBVTT - Is Your Amazon Habit Wrecking the Planet? 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:05.760 On a recent afternoon here in our newsroom in San Francisco, Sarah, 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:08.760 can I ambush you for two seconds? I walked around 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.879 with a mic and I asked everyone about their online 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:16.280 shopping habits. I was wondering, if you buy things online? 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:22.000 I do. I buy most of my stuff online these days. Yeah. Um, 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.599 we just recently started using Amazon Prime for all of 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.520 our grocery deliveries. It's so much easier considering we have 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.360 a baby at home and can rarely leave the house. Specifically, 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:34.720 I was curious if people have thought about the carbon 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.120 emissions from all their deliveries. Have you ever worried about 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:42.559 like the environmental impact we do? Actually? Yeah, there was. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.840 There was an interesting discussion in our neighborhoods next door 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.320 and if they felt guilty about it? Yeah? What do you? 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:57.440 What do you think? What do you do about that concern? Um? Um, 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.240 I planted tree every time. I'm just joking. How how 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.560 many deliveries would you estimate you get a week? Or 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:09.080 mom three to five a week? Oh, that's quite a bit. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.440 We get a lot. Yeah, my wife probably does more. Actually, 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.000 my wife definitely does more shopping than I do. But 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.600 but I do a little bit and have you guys 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:21.840 worried about the carbon emissions of all this? Yeah, totally, totally. 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:23.920 We worry about it a lot, but not enough to 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:33.000 like stop just like we're total hypocrites. Total hypocrites. That 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.800 you just heard is our executive editor, Tom Giles, and 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.760 I think the sentiment he expressed is familiar to a 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.559 lot of us. Amazon makes billions of shipments a year 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.000 involving planes and ships, trucks and cars that emit a 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:52.160 lot of carbon dioxide. Today in the show, we're taking 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.920 you inside a group of Amazon employees who, unlike me 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:00.760 and Tom, actually did something about their concern. Abandoned together 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.720 and they try to publicly pressure their employer to do 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.880 more to fight climate change. And with the help of 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.000 a professor who studied this very issue, we'll less to 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.720 see if getting everything delivered to us could eventually, with 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.000 the right decisions, become a good thing for the environment. 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:30.680 I'm Akio. You're listening to Decrypted stay with us, So, Spencer, 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.200 can you introduce yourself. I'm Spencer Soaper and I'm a 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:38.600 technology reporter with Bloomberg. You know, Spencer, you've been covering 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.720 Amazon for many years now. When did this issue of 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:48.560 the environment start popping up in your reporting. Amazon's environmental 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.000 impact has been an issue since I started here covering Amazon. 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.160 It's environmental effects have always been top of mind because 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.679 everyone gets packages from Amazon and sometimes they come in 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:03.360 very big boxes, and there have always been concerns about waste. 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:08.160 This issue, whether it's waste or the carbon emissions, has 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.519 it been a long standing concern for the people who 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:16.240 work at Amazon. Yes, so people who work at Amazon 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:19.320 have been worried about this for for a number of years, 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:21.720 and it seems like it's been an issue that's kind 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.000 of come up here and there, and so people have 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:29.200 done things like right six page papers on Amazon's environmental impacts, 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.680 hoping to get the company to do a little more, 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.360 or they've presented ideas at these think Big events where 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.800 Amazon tries to get employees to share their big ideas 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.680 things that can guide their business into the future, and 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:50.080 nothing really accomplished anything. So in two thousand eighteen, a 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:54.520 group of employees started looking at it more seriously, and 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.480 a galvanizing moment at that time was when they started 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.400 looking at what other companies were doing, companies like DHL 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.960 or Google, and they learned that Amazon was falling pretty 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.840 far shy of its competitors in terms of being proactive 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:16.640 about its environmental impacts. So that coalesced in the employees 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:21.760 getting together to file a shareholder resolution. For our listeners 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:26.000 who don't know, what is the shareholder resolution? So Amazon 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:30.600 employees also are shareholders, and shareholder resolution is a process 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.240 by which anyone who owns shares of a company can 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.719 present an idea to officially be voted on by other 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.880 shareholders to basically send a message to the company what's 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.480 important to the people who own the company. We should 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.120 note that a shareholder resolution is non binding. Right, It's 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.480 basically kind of a way to shame a company's executives. 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.360 I guess it's a way to apply public pressure. Yes, 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.120 definitely a way to apply public pressure and call attention 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.000 to an issue. Seeing it on other things like gender diversity, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.919 the and and racial diversity, those sorts of things. What 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:08.240 did this particular resolution call for? It was pretty broad, 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.560 but it basically called on Amazon to create a comprehensive 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.800 plan to take more steps to address climate change and 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.960 to reduce its effects on climate change. Okay, so a 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:25.039 group of Amazon employees decided to very publicly call for 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.839 Amazon to do more to fight climate change. What happens next? 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.520 So a shareholder resolution coming from Amazon employees is extremely rare. 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.840 They tend to keep problems within the family and don't 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.400 discuss them publicly. And then afterward, Emily Cunningham, who is 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:47.200 promoting this effort employee effort within Amazon, sent an email 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.039 to her colleagues trying to explain herself like, this is 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:51.919 why climate change is important to me, and this is 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.240 why I felt it was important to present this resolution, 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.520 and she asked any colleagues who felt similarly to to 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.480 join her and signing the resolution. And one of her 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:04.240 colleagues who got that email was Marin Costa. My name 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:09.120 is Marin Costa and my title is Principal User Experience Designer. 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.200 So Marin is a UX designer who has been working 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:16.400 at Amazon for several years. She's a mother, and she's 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.839 concerned about the environment, especially Amazon's impact on the environment, 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.040 and it's something that she's felt personally conflicted about herself. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.760 So when the email arrived in her inbox, this was 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.080 an issue she immediately wanted to get involved with. And 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.040 I wrote back immediately and just said, oh my god, 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:37.880 this is amazing. I've been sitting here by myself feeling 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:44.360 frustrated and futile, so I immediately signed. So they filed 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:49.080 the shareholder resolution in December, and it immediately got the 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:53.880 attention of Amazon senior management. And in January, the employees 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.880 meet with Amazon senior leadership. We asked them to release 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.760 data about our carbon footprint. We asked them for a 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.479 date on when we would be carbon renewable energy, and 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:10.240 they refused to give both. But they did agree in 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:15.560 that initial meeting not to challenge are resolution and allow 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.160 it to go on the ballot for a vote. Online 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.960 retail giant Amazon plans to make half of its shipments 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:26.640 carbon neutral by and then in February, Amazon announced Amazon 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.960 Shipment Zero, which is this pledge to reduce carbon emissions 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:35.600 with a goal of reducing them by by. Amazon employees 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.320 thought this was obviously an effort to try to appease 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:44.640 appease them and recognize concerns about Amazon's carbon footprint. What's 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:48.760 kind of the group's reaction to Project zero? More sweeping 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.880 the floors while the house is burning, down a bucket 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:57.440 of water on a forest fire, you know, rearranging Digerison Titanic, 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.320 whatever you want to say, It's not enough, we need 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:07.880 a date. We're still behind. We're still away behind. So 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:11.360 shortly after that announcement, the Amazon employees are once again 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:15.600 called into a meeting with Amazon leadership and they were 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.720 asked if they'd be willing to withdraw their proposal since 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:23.040 Amazon was now moving in their direction of addressing climate change. 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.640 So we said we wouldn't withdraw unless we could get 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.760 a date. We still didn't have a date by when 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.520 we would be renewable. That's something that was important to 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.280 employees was just like, okay, let's just pose this question 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.880 and force a vote on it. So that said, everyone 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.199 has to go on record on on where they stand. 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.760 So Amazon has its annual shareholder meeting in May. It 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.600 does it in Seattle, and there's always a smorgas board 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:57.400 of protesters. They're airing grievances about Amazon. The big edition 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.280 this year were the employee Climate Change A protesters, And 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.760 so you had this large contingent of Amazon employees. Um 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.640 they were dressed in white T shirts to show solidarity. 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.760 They had signs and things calling for Amazon to dress 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.880 climate change. And a big difference was because many of 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:19.359 these Amazon employees are actual shareholders, is that these protesters 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:23.480 got into the room. This meeting, Emily Cunningham will now 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.800 introduce a shareholder proposal over costing a report from Climate 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.839 Change Times. One of the employees stood up Emily Cunningham 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.400 and she actually, like it was kind of dramatic moment, 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.960 actually called uh for Jeff Bezos to come out and 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.840 hear her speak before I started my time. I liked 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.599 for Jeff Bezos to come out on stage so that 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.080 I can kids directly. He did not. He was still 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:49.720 in the in the back. He comes out and gives 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.160 like a presentation, but he's not there for the entire 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:58.720 shareholder meeting. Well, he began hearing this speech. I assume 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:05.760 so and memory I've worked at Amazon the last and 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.839 she basically laid out the employee's concerns and why they 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:14.280 were proposing this this petition. Emily asked the Amazon employees 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:19.640 that were there to stand up, but also many other people, 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.800 just non employees, just shareholders stood up in support. Some 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.480 people were even crying, you know, it was it was 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:34.559 really it was a really powerful moment. So the shareholder 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:40.520 proposal went down. It gained about support from Amazon shareholders, 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.960 which wasn't sufficient, but it was still a pretty big number. 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.880 And it really encouraged the employees that they were able 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.840 to reach such a high water mark in terms of support. 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:57.960 Does want to three? So after the vote, the meeting 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.560 room clears out and the employ he's basically you know, 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.760 grouped together standing beneath one of their banners, and they 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.679 spoke to the to the media. Without bold, rapid action, 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.920 we will lose our only chance to avoid catastrophic warming. 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.280 There's no issue more important to our customers or our 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.640 world than the climate crisis, and we are falling far short. 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.800 Jeff Bezels. Can you see children who might have drowned, 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:34.400 towns thriving that might have burned, species swimming that might 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:39.160 have been lost forever? How will we tell our children? 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.000 Do you feel like Marin and her group were able 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:47.240 to accomplish something that people before weren't able to accomplish? Yes, 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.559 I mean they were able to demonstrate that there's a 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.080 significant movement within the company that a lot of people 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.600 are are uncomfortable. We have a tight labor market. A 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.520 lot of these jobs are extremely hard for companies like 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.280 Amazon to find people for and higher than for. And 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.360 so if people feel like there are other companies where 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.800 they can work and feel more comfortable about their place 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.600 in society. If that company is doing more to protect 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.840 the environment, they can very easily jump ship and go 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.559 to those jobs. So this is something that Amazon has 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.880 consider from a an employee retention standpoint, which is which 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:29.160 is extremely important for for the tech industry. We'll be 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:42.079 right back, Okay, So before the break, we heard about 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.480 a group of Amazon employees who are pressuring their company 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.440 into doing better for the planet. And I guess that 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:53.960 begs the question how bad is Amazon? Because the alternative 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.199 to Amazon and to e commerce more broadly, is all 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.640 of us driving individually to the store, and that's also 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.959 bad for the planet. And to answer that question, Spencer, 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.600 you talked to an expert. Yes, I met with Anne 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.120 good Child. She's a professor at the University of Washington 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:15.360 UH in Amazon's hometown of Seattle. So that's the last 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:24.440 thing what I'm on. Mm hm, So I think cat 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:30.200 callers cat call Yeah, so we have these two cats. Yeah. 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:40.360 The callers call from Ontario. And it's interesting because this 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.840 project for her began as a question that probably a 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.880 lot of other people have asked themselves. I think we 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:50.360 started in it was actually a couple of studies, A 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:54.440 grad student and I were both using grocery delivery services 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.319 and just had a personal interest in trying to understand 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:02.600 what that meant for transport to an emissions. It started 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.120 from her guilty conscience, like the rest of us. Yeah, exactly, 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.480 the guilty conscious and a question. And the question was 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:14.120 a good one because theoretically shopping on Amazon could be 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.880 a good thing. If you live on a cul de 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.920 sac with twenty homes, and all of those people go 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.760 to the supermarket once a week, maybe they go to 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:32.160 Costco twice a month, and you you add up all 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:37.600 of those vehicle trips. If you could replace all of 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:43.480 those vehicle trips with one weekly truck trip through the 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:47.320 neighborhood to all of those homes delivering all of those things, 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.120 then you're actually burning less fossil fuel. Then that's a 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.120 that's a more efficient way to get the products to 0:14:55.320 --> 0:15:00.280 those people. Our existing model is not very efficient an 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.080 energy or traffic standpoint. If if that basic model is 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.160 you get in the car, you drive to the store, 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:10.880 and you drive home again, that's not hard to beat. Sometimes, 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.240 get in your car, drive the person you store, drive home, 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.840 realize you forgot something to drive back, drive home. Yes, 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:23.560 especially Yeah, I was going to make fun of my husband, 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:29.400 but I shouldn't do that. Go ahead ahead. So there 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:34.320 is a possibility that by utilizing e commerce more, you're 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:40.800 actually helping the planet. That's the theory. In practice, the 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:45.480 exact opposite happens. So there's many things that erode the 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:50.480 benefits of that sort of idealized delivery service concept. One 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.440 of those is that you have multiple players. So if 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:58.680 we have three or four companies doing a similar thing, 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.040 so you have four different trucks in your neighborhood instead 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.880 of potentially one. Another one is this idea of really 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.400 fast delivery times. So if you're delivering and you do 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.440 it once a week versus if you do it every day, 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.040 you can squish more stuff into a bigger truck and 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:20.120 have a lower cost and lower carbon oxide footprint. So 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.920 that pressure to deliver more quickly is also eroding the 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:29.560 potential benefits. And and we're talking about just carbon emissions 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:34.640 from the transportation right. It doesn't include things like packaging. Yeah, 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:36.920 we're not even talking about packaging now. We're simply talking 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:41.080 about the consumption of fossil fuels. So the way we're 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.880 moving suggests that we're actually not you know, capturing those 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:50.280 consolidation benefits of a delivery service. And I'm sure that 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:56.120 right now we have increased travel demand through online chopping 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.120 and delivery services. Alright, So what's the bottom line if 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:04.000 you were to think of right now? Is it all 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.359 of these companies that are bringing stuff to you versus 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.040 you go into the store. Is it better for the environment, 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.399 worse for the environment, or a wash? It's worse for 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.560 the environment. For Yeah, sus to remember how I went 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.480 around our office and made everyone feel bad about their 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:21.160 online shopping. Yeah, they all loved you for that, you know, 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:25.159 given what and told us it sounds like we should 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.520 indeed feel bad about it, that the nagging guilt we 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:33.359 feel is actually warranted. Yeah, it's warranted, and especially if 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:37.400 you shop very frequently, you should feel even worse if 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.680 we're unwilling to forego the convenience. Despite all of this, 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.119 is there anything we can do to minimize our impact 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.560 on the environment. Yes, so you couldn't be a mindful 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.680 online shopper, and the main step would be to consolidate 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:57.200 your orders. Maybe rather than having several individual packages come 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.400 to your door through the week, if you can load 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.120 up your cart and make one order each week. That's 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.440 the kind of thing individual consumers can do to decrease 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:12.320 the environmental impact. Let's say Jeff Bezos wakes up tomorrow, 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.399 he says, yes, employees, I I heard you loud and clearer, 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.240 and we're going to take this issue head on. What 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.960 are what are some changes Amazon could make right now 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:26.600 to soften it's it's uh impact. So I think one 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.159 thing they have to do is think about, you know, 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.560 the incentives that they're currently using, which are are pretty 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:36.560 bread and butter for their business strategy, are also encouraging 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:41.200 people to to use these delivery services without much consciousness? Um, 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.160 it's very easy to You're almost encouraged right to use 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:46.680 the services that way and not really feel like you're 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.680 paying for them by now get it now, get it tomorrow, 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.359 get it today, and it's like the default. I think 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:56.000 the fastest free one. There needs to be some intentional 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.080 thought in, you know, are we encouraging people to to 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:05.320 use fast and frequent deliveries? So is Amazon moving in 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:09.760 that direction? So? Um? Amazon announced at the end of 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.440 the first quarter that they'd be spending money on one 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.800 day shipping. They definitely are feeling the pressure from from 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.960 stores and a lot of these other options people have 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.480 where you can order something online from say Walmart or 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.280 Target and then go and pick it up at the 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.480 store that day. And so in an earnings call in July, 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.439 analysts are very interested to know, Hey, what's going on 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.760 with next day delivery? Can you give us any updates? 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:38.080 And the CFO, Brianosovski, actually said that it's going very well. 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.960 It did cost a little bit more, but what they're 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.960 finding is by narrowing the delivery promise to one day, 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.200 they're picking up a lot more sales. That that people 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.119 are are more engaged and they're willing to buy more 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:53.239 things on Amazon. But given everything that Anne told us, 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.080 one day shipping is exactly the opposite of what Amazon 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.840 should be doing if it really cared about the environment. Yeah, 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.240 a one day delivery pledge for the last minute need 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.120 is going to make the shopping habits probably only get 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:09.000 only get worse for the environment. The spencer. What does 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.920 Amazon say about all this? Well, Amazon says that reducing 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:17.000 the human impacts of climate change is important to the 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.760 company and they have teams dedicated to it. They actually 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.359 mentioned one project they're working on where they're trying to 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.040 develop scientific models to map the carbon footprint and look 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.840 for opportunities to reduce it. They also said that they're 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:34.080 going to release more information about their company wide carbon 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:38.160 footprint and their goals and programs later this year. Spencer, 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.119 by the way, is Amazon doing anything to reduce the 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:46.000 packaging waste from all their deliveries, things like the cardboard boxes, 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:51.280 because it seems like that's the thing that everyone's concerned about. Yeah, 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.680 and it can be inconvenient too, and that stuff piles up. 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.199 They do have technology and their warehouses that tries to 0:20:57.240 --> 0:20:59.720 optimize the size of the box for the package, but 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.560 you still hear from people who, you know, order a 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.119 set of headphones and end up with, you know, a 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.479 box the size of the trunk of a car. M hm. 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.080 And what's next for Marin and her group Well, even 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.720 though their shareholder resolution went down in the spring, the 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.359 Amazon employees continue to meet and are still active on 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.800 this issue. They actually have a planned walkout coming up 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.920 on September twenty. More than employees are planning to leave 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.640 their jobs at Amazon for the day. This would be 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:32.960 both in Seattle and around the world, and this is 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:35.639 for them to participate in what's known as a global 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:40.200 climate strike where people at various companies and various countries 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.720 are urging one another to show solidarity on the issue 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.320 of climate change by by walking out of work on 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:58.120 that day. Spencer Soper, thanks for the story today. Thanks 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:06.920 m Decrypted is produced by me Aki Ito and Ethan Brooks. 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:11.560 Emily Buso and Anne vander May are story editors. Francesca 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.560 Levie is the head of Bloomberg podcast We'll see you 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:15.600 next week.