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Speaker 1: This episode contains discussions of domestic violence, which may be

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Speaker 1: distressing and triggering for some listeners. If you or someone

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Speaker 1: you know is affected by domestic violence, resources and support

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Speaker 1: are available in your area. Call eight hundred seven ninety

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Speaker 1: nine seven two three three or text begin to eight

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Speaker 1: eight seven eight eight. Since the recording of this episode,

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Speaker 1: ABC has made the official decision to cancel the upcoming

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Speaker 1: season of The Bachelorette.

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Speaker 2: Wind Down with Jana Kramer and I'mheartradio podcast.

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Speaker 3: Okay, guys, we've got a headline of the week that

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Speaker 3: we need to discuss and it's a lot, So give

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Speaker 3: me a second to just run down to brief everybody,

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Speaker 3: because I feel like each one of us have spoken

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Speaker 3: to our producer Hannah being like, okay, wait, because there

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Speaker 3: is a story after story after story after story, and

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Speaker 3: thus weekly feed is just filled with it. So on Monday,

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Speaker 3: news broke that back in February, Dakota called the cops. Okay.

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Speaker 3: In February, Dakota called the cops to his house for

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Speaker 3: domestic violence dispute when Dakota and Taylor were fighting over

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Speaker 3: his romantic past. We're told it got physical as Taylor

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Speaker 3: allegedly choked Dakota and ripped his necklace off and grabbed

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Speaker 3: his throat and face, and this happened with their son

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Speaker 3: ever in the room. Taylor has a much different version

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Speaker 3: of events, as sources with direct knowledge says say Dakota

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Speaker 3: was the primary aggressor during a recent car ride with Taylor.

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Speaker 3: We're going to pin that Dakota allegedly has video proof

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Speaker 3: of the abuse. Where told. The clips allegedly show a

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Speaker 3: series of heated moments between Taylor and Dakota, some of

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Speaker 3: which have been shared privately among their inner circle, and

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Speaker 3: include shots of Taylor hitting, punching, biting, and grabbing at Dakota.

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Speaker 3: Due to Dakota making numerous calls the Department of Child

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Speaker 3: and Family Services alleging abuse, it has also been reported

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Speaker 3: that Taylor and Dakota are not talking currently and are

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Speaker 3: using a third party when dealing with her son. Production

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Speaker 3: has been halted on Secret Life of Mormon Wives as

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Speaker 3: the cast allegedly is refusing to film until until Taylor

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Speaker 3: gets help. The entire cast believes Taylor isn't in a

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Speaker 3: good place mentally, and they want her to seek help

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Speaker 3: before anything else moves forward with filming. We're told the

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Speaker 3: cast isn't icing her out When asked, I'm Good Morning America,

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Speaker 3: Taylor play dumb to the fact about production being halted,

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Speaker 3: even though she is an EP on the show. Taylor

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Speaker 3: also told Lauren Spencer Laura Spencer on GMA, I'm a

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Speaker 3: person that will always speak my truth. And that's what

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Speaker 3: I'm known for and so and and that's what I'm

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Speaker 3: known for. And so when the time is right, I

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Speaker 3: will be continued the reality TV star, but right now,

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Speaker 3: just trying to be present in the moment. She also

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Speaker 3: I saw her on I always want to say Regis

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Speaker 3: and Kelly, but I know Kelly and Mark that she

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Speaker 3: said that it's really sad that another premiere moment has

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Speaker 3: been taken from her. The Bachelorette premiere's this coming Sunday

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Speaker 3: and follows her journey to find love. Okay, there is

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Speaker 3: a lot, and I think what's hard is I'll take

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Speaker 3: a cue from Kat's book, there's so much that we

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Speaker 3: don't know, you know, we don't know, and but where

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of okay, here's where I'm gonna start. In

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Speaker 3: season one of the Secret Life of Mormon Wives, they

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Speaker 3: show an altercation between Taylor and Dakota and My problem

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Speaker 3: from the very beginning is that nothing else was talked about,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, did we not didn't we just witness

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Speaker 3: her being physical? And why did this just go away?

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Speaker 3: And the cops came? The cops came the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, why, in my mind I saw it being

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Speaker 3: it just going away? And that really bothered me on

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Speaker 3: the show.

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Speaker 2: It did, for sure on the show she did get charged.

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Speaker 3: I believed, again, if this wasn't a male, this would

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Speaker 3: be a totally different situation, and it always kind of

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Speaker 3: bugged me and rubbed me the wrong way. And so

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Speaker 3: then moving forward, I'm like, Okay, I really liked Taylor.

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Speaker 3: I thought, you know, I'm always going to root for

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Speaker 3: the underdog. You know, he's alleging this choking of a necklace,

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Speaker 3: and the story that she comes back with is a

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Speaker 3: different aggressor story in like a car and I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 3: but what about the necklace and the choking piece, Like,

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Speaker 3: don't just be like, well, he was aggressive a week

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Speaker 3: ago in a car ride, do you know what I'm saying?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, I struggle a lot, probably because of the

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Speaker 4: way I was raised that so much of this is

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Speaker 4: happening in front of their child. So that piece of

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Speaker 4: it is extra hard to me because in the world

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Speaker 4: thirty thousand feet they are these reality TV stars and

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Speaker 4: everybody wants in on the drama, and it's captivating audiences

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Speaker 4: and ratings and it's getting a lot of attention. But

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Speaker 4: in actual humanity and real life, we have a mom

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Speaker 4: and a dad that are obviously not maturely handling or

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Speaker 4: healthy handling things in a healthy way in front of

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Speaker 4: a child. And he's too. I think I'm not too

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Speaker 4: little at the age, but either way, you know, it

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Speaker 4: creates such a marvel in their DNA.

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Speaker 3: You know, so that's really too this week. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's just what I will say too, is you know,

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Speaker 3: they're saying that it's about they were fighting about his

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Speaker 3: romantic past, the amount of times they fought about his

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Speaker 3: romantic past. And listen, what is sad about all this

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Speaker 3: is that The Bachelorette is also airing this week, and

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Speaker 3: I was excited to watch it, but now I don't

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Speaker 3: know if I want to watch it because it just

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Speaker 3: feels like because if they're fighting about the past, well

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Speaker 3: then does she just not find anyone? She also on

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Speaker 3: the show.

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Speaker 4: He also.

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Speaker 3: Why she slept with him like the night.

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Speaker 2: Before she left for the Bachelorette.

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Speaker 3: Oh I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was like really close. Unfortunately, I

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Speaker 2: think it's going to do the opposite effect. I think

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Speaker 2: more people are going to watch it. So this is

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Speaker 2: which is messed up. But I think that that's the reality.

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Speaker 2: I think the real is. Do I think that the

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Speaker 2: timing of this was planned? Absolutely not. Obviously all this

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Speaker 2: stuff happened.

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Speaker 4: But this is all happening in February did and it

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Speaker 4: comes out right before the Bachelorette airs.

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Speaker 2: And I don't I do think that's a coincidence. Don't.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm not sitting here saying, oh, they planned this,

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Speaker 2: they put this out there because of that. I don't

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Speaker 2: believe that at all. However, because of the timing of it,

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Speaker 2: I think you will get more eyeballs on the show.

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Speaker 4: I actually do think they did plan for it to

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Speaker 4: come out before the show came out. I don't think

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Speaker 4: the domestic violence is planned, because they're just diabolical together.

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Speaker 4: That's not a funny thing to even right, No, But

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Speaker 4: I think storyline not of I think that they I think.

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Speaker 3: Either he whether he meant to do it to ruin

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Speaker 3: this for her or.

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Speaker 2: Well, because that's the other side of it. A lot

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Speaker 2: of her castmates are saying that he likes to sabotage things,

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Speaker 2: that he likes to come in and cause a fight

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Speaker 2: right before something good. So I think that that's an

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Speaker 2: interesting point of view because maybe he did come in

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Speaker 2: because he is the first one that brought up up correct,

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Speaker 2: he's the first one that said something about it, but

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Speaker 2: he trying to sabotage. Was he trying to sabotage her

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Speaker 2: in this regard? Maybe? I mean, I don't know that

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Speaker 2: we'll ever know that for sure, but it does feel

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Speaker 2: that way. But again, I cannot believe that this was

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Speaker 2: like planned in like a whole full way when it

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Speaker 2: comes to domestic abuse, Like, no way, I don't think,

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Speaker 2: just can't. But maybe he was trying to sabotage.

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Speaker 4: Her because the show, because the reports are that she

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Speaker 4: attacked him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I think.

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Speaker 4: That it aids in the narrative that he's kind of

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Speaker 4: created for himself that he sabotage, tries to sabotage her. Right.

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Speaker 3: The thing that to the sabotage point is that if

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Speaker 3: the news, if it happened, if it happened in February,

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Speaker 3: then he should have talked about it then and not

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Speaker 3: waited until this.

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Speaker 2: Like this past February or the February before.

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Speaker 3: No, either that back in February. I assume this February.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so really that hasn't been that long, that's true,

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Speaker 2: But it feels like it would have been last February.

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Speaker 2: But I guess not well with the timing of everything,

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Speaker 2: because she filmed it would have had to have been

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Speaker 2: last February, because when did she film Bachelor or Bachelorette?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think this is all recent. I make up

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Speaker 3: that this is February. Just know what I'm saying. That's

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Speaker 3: why I don't think that she and because.

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Speaker 2: She slept with him right before they left, but then

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Speaker 2: they probably.

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Speaker 3: Fed the film all be done, right, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean? For a minute, Yeah, Bachelorette was filmed in November, Okay,

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Speaker 3: but it's saying back in February. I feel like they

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Speaker 3: would have said twenty twenty five, right, So like this

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Speaker 3: has just happened. So that's my whole thing about.

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Speaker 2: So then maybe that's but maybe that is why the

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Speaker 2: timing of all of it, because it really just I

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Speaker 2: mean February really just happened.

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Speaker 3: Right, and so, and I wish it was. It seemed

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Speaker 3: like if you're going to talk about it, it may

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Speaker 3: And again, maybe this is where the sabotage piece comes

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Speaker 3: in because he waited a couple of weeks before the premiere,

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Speaker 3: right Having said that, if this was a man and

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Speaker 3: these were allegations, I feel like ABC would have pulled

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Speaker 3: the Bachelor. If there was Bachelor claims that he choked

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Speaker 3: a woman, I don't think they would air it. So

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Speaker 3: I just don't like the double standard on it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's something we just really don't talk

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Speaker 2: about enough when it comes to domestic abuse.

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Speaker 3: And apparently the video just came out Hannah just which

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Speaker 3: honestly is so fucking triggering. I yeah, I don't know

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Speaker 3: that I could watch like that. It just gave me

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Speaker 3: a sick. Same.

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Speaker 2: I just think that we don't talk enough about and.

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Speaker 3: This is Hannah, can you watch it and let us

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Speaker 3: know what it because I don't want to watch it. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: she said, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was very prevalent in the music business. I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to be honest, this happened a lot when men

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Speaker 2: are physically and verbally abusive and women also are verbally

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Speaker 2: and abusive back. And it's a very tricky thing again

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Speaker 2: that people don't really talk about because if A and

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Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to this question. So I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say it very carefully. You know, if a

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Speaker 2: man puts a hand on a woman and then a

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Speaker 2: woman puts their hands back on a man and is physical,

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Speaker 2: is that okay? Is that?

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Speaker 1: Not?

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Speaker 3: Say that all more time?

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Speaker 2: If a man is puts is physical or even just

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Speaker 2: let's just say even words, but let's let's go with physical.

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Speaker 2: If they are abusive to a woman and then they

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Speaker 2: are abusive.

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Speaker 3: Back, time out, That's where I'm gonna stop you right there. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's okay. If you were, It's called violent resistance. And

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Speaker 3: I've talked a lot about this with Amy because the

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Speaker 3: problem is when you are in these toxic, abusive relationships,

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Speaker 3: which I've had with many, yes, not many, a few.

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Speaker 3: The first man that I was with that was abusive,

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Speaker 3: I never fought back. I never hit back. I never

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Speaker 3: did anything. One of the abusive men that I was

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Speaker 3: with that would grab me, that have left bruises on

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Speaker 3: my arms, that have you know, pushed me, hurt me.

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Speaker 3: I fought back, and I remember going to Amy and

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Speaker 3: saying he told me that it was that I was

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Speaker 3: the abuser, but Amy, he was grabbing my arms. I

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Speaker 3: have bruises on my arms. And she goes, this is

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Speaker 3: what's called violent resistance. Violent resist, and this is what happens.

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Speaker 3: And this is why I'm like, very passionate.

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Speaker 2: That's what i wanted to talk about it because people

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Speaker 2: don't talk about this enough.

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Speaker 3: No they don't. But then they'll go, well, you hit back,

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Speaker 3: and I'll never forget the moment when someone said, well

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Speaker 3: you did back, and I'm like, because I'm fighting back

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Speaker 3: for myself because I feel unsafe. That's here's the problem though.

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Speaker 3: But here's also the problem, and a lot of times

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Speaker 3: that happens after you've been in an abusive relationship. So

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Speaker 3: most of the time that violent resistance occurs occurs after

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Speaker 3: someone has already been abused by someone that they didn't

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Speaker 3: fight back from. So but what happens in these situations

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Speaker 3: is that when the woman actually fights back to say

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Speaker 3: get out of my way, or they're scratching and clawing

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Speaker 3: or pushing back to get this man off of them,

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Speaker 3: that man calls the cops. But there is a video

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Speaker 3: that I don't we don't want to watch, So Hannah

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Speaker 3: can you can you pop on?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 5: So I just literally as we were recording this, they

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Speaker 5: just release the footage of the from the domestic violence

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Speaker 5: dispute that happened in twenty twenty three that led to

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Speaker 5: her arrest, and essentially the video shows Dakota trying to

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Speaker 5: get away from her and her kind of going at him.

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Speaker 5: She at one point is hitting him and then puts

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Speaker 5: him into a headlock as he is like, Taylor, this

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Speaker 5: is this is this abuse, this is physical abuse. Stop.

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Speaker 2: He's asking her to stop.

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Speaker 5: Then it cuts to another footage where she is physically

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Speaker 5: throwing her like kitchen stools at him. There's like three

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Speaker 5: different stools. He is backing away, asking her to stop.

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Speaker 5: He's getting near this couch and he says, Taylor, stop,

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Speaker 5: your daughter's right here, and she throws one more as

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Speaker 5: he's kind of rounding the couch, and you hear it

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Speaker 5: almost like bounce off him, and then the baby starts

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Speaker 5: crying and.

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Speaker 3: The video cuts out.

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Speaker 5: So at that point, you're obviously assuming it was alleged

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Speaker 5: that the child was struck. Years ago, when this report happened,

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Speaker 5: the child was struck with a chair and this video

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Speaker 5: just confirmed it.

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Speaker 3: So this all just happened.

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Speaker 5: This is a twenty twenty three video from her arrest then,

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Speaker 5: and it.

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Speaker 3: Is when someone is telling someone to stop, that is abuse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's that's the problem. Like I think

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Speaker 2: it's very important to talk about women and being defensive

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Speaker 2: and getting physical when they are being defensive. This to

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Speaker 2: me is not that he is trying to get away.

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Speaker 2: He is asking her to stop. She is being physically abusive.

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Speaker 2: Now do I know her past, Do I know if

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Speaker 2: she's been physically abused? Do I know if there are reasons.

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Speaker 3: I'll always say it doesn't matter physical exactly abu. I mean,

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Speaker 3: no matters why the other person does. It doesn't warrant.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I'm believing. But I was she was

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Speaker 3: because that's where you were trying to defend yourself to

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Speaker 3: get out, because you were stuck, right, that was your

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Speaker 3: only way of protecting yourself, right. But when someone is

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Speaker 3: saying to stop.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I only say that because I do want

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Speaker 2: to be a little sensitive to the fact that maybe

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of past trauma. I know that she's

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Speaker 2: got past trauma or whatever. But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: my opinion and hearing about this video and everything that

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Speaker 2: I've seen is that she is abusive. Now does that

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Speaker 2: mean that he's not also abusive? Not necessarily and he

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Speaker 2: can be just as abusive. He can maybe in this instance.

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Speaker 3: And it was her like being like maybe he has

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Speaker 3: done something to her, and this is her way now

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Speaker 3: of being well the way then, So that is that's

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Speaker 3: the part of where the trauma as someone that's been abused.

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Speaker 3: And I do get that piece too. Unfortunately, in a

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Speaker 3: court of law, they're not gonna.

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Speaker 2: Write because it doesn't matter. You're still being abusive when

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Speaker 2: someone's saying so it's just like somebody killing someone. Most

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Speaker 2: of these people who are murders have a traumatic past,

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Speaker 2: you know. I mean, but you still have to pay

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Speaker 2: for what you do. And I do feel like there

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Speaker 2: is a chance he is also he's obviously probably they're

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Speaker 2: both verbally abusive. I mean, there's I don't think any

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Speaker 2: question about that. But you know, when she says, but

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Speaker 2: he in the car when we're talking about this to me,

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Speaker 2: does lend itself to Okay? There have probably been other

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Speaker 2: instances where she wants to go but he did this,

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Speaker 2: and he did this, and he did this. Okay, and

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Speaker 2: that is wrong. But also what you did was wrong.

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Speaker 3: And that's that's where it's so hard, because so many

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Speaker 3: times when a woman has been physical with a man,

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Speaker 3: it's been because of years of abuse that they've had

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Speaker 3: most times, right, so now, and it is true that

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Speaker 3: sometimes a woman can just be the abuser. That's also

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Speaker 3: I think that's not talked about too. And this can

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Speaker 3: happen to a man too, like that is something that

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Speaker 3: now it's not as many as statistically it's most men are.

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Speaker 3: That's I don't know the actual statistics, but I do

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Speaker 3: know that it is hire for a man to be

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Speaker 3: the abuser. But there is still women that are the

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Speaker 3: abusers solely as well that didn't have prior abuse from

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Speaker 3: that partner. But in this instance, when someone has been abused,

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Speaker 3: this is their unfortunate way of reacting. And when women

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Speaker 3: then get arrested, they don't take into account the years

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Speaker 3: of abuse, which they're now starting to do within the

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Speaker 3: court of law, but they don't look at that because

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Speaker 3: because if he's saying stop, they're going to say, well,

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Speaker 3: you weren't in immediate danger, so why were you being

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Speaker 3: abused back? And they don't take into account the years

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Speaker 3: prior and all that, all of that, so it becomes

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Speaker 3: really cloudy and messy. But again, my thing is when

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Speaker 3: he's saying stop like that is I just hope that

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Speaker 3: they can both get the help and she can do

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Speaker 3: work as well, because you lose your power when you

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Speaker 3: are in that situation and you hurt other people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but also because really strongly believe it's time for

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Speaker 4: them to come off camera. Yeah, like this is out

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Speaker 4: of control. Adding an element of social media, of fame,

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Speaker 4: of celebrity to all of this is in my opinion,

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Speaker 4: and I don't care if I go down in all

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Speaker 4: the flames for this fueling this whatever this is in

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Speaker 4: both of them, these are like, this is somebody's parents.

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Speaker 2: This is out of control, like and now it's going

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Speaker 2: to really be everywhere.

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Speaker 3: And if ABC.

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Speaker 4: Continues to glorify or use I'm sorry, like this needs

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Speaker 4: to be pulled. We are we are celebrating and rewarding

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Speaker 4: behavior with more fame. That's unacceptable.

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Speaker 3: The problem is is that she just has and I

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Speaker 3: was I was so rooting for her because she went

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Speaker 3: to a retreat center and she's doing the work and

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Speaker 3: through the years of the domestic violence that I had,

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Speaker 3: the violent resistance, fighting back. Where I'm at now, I

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Speaker 3: know how to walk away, and it's hard. Don't get

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Speaker 3: me wrong, there are times when I want, like I

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Speaker 3: have that anger inside of me, but I also know

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Speaker 3: that touching anybody is not okay.

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Speaker 4: And they're both this is what I'm saying, like they're

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Speaker 4: not being kind to each other. So I don't I

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Speaker 4: don't know who's doing what to who first, but I

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Speaker 4: know so that it's happening in front of children that

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Speaker 4: has been proven, and that they're not good for each other.

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Speaker 4: And so at some point it's time to take this offline,

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Speaker 4: really get the help you need for yourselves so that

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Speaker 4: you can be good parents for your daughter, whether that's

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Speaker 4: together or separate. And I do, honestly do pray it's separate,

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Speaker 4: because I just think there's just too much. But at

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Speaker 4: some point, these are still human beings and we're still

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Speaker 4: talking about family systems and us all furthering that, and

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Speaker 4: the fame of that is it starts to disgust me

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Speaker 4: a little bit. And clearly they're just toxic together. So

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Speaker 4: they just got to be They need to do their

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Speaker 4: healing and then just co parent and just the cycle

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Speaker 4: won't stop. It'll continue because unfortunately all the memories, all

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Speaker 4: the trauma, all the anger, all the resentment between them,

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Speaker 4: that physicality would it's going to be almost impossible to

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Speaker 4: break the relationship. Is that you said that there's a mediator,

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Speaker 4: that they're talking to a third party, not to each other.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, hallelujah. Family Wizard is a dream. Well, hopefully

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Speaker 3: they stick with that for parenting. I mean, because they've

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Speaker 3: proven to you know, I'm gonna pull up my amy hat.

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Speaker 3: This is something that she had sent me. The majority

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Speaker 3: nine out of ten women of women who perpetrate domestic

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Speaker 3: abuse are the are themselves victims of intimate terrorism. She

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Speaker 3: talks a lot about that domestic abuse by their male

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Speaker 3: ex partner. The reasons why they come to fight back

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Speaker 3: self defense, which accounts for around seventy five cases, fear

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Speaker 3: of frustration, the need to protect their children from the perpetrator,

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Speaker 3: the attempt to gain or regain control, retribution, or to

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Speaker 3: get back at the perpetrator for being hit first, or

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Speaker 3: to even get even, and then the need to escape.

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Speaker 3: So you know, was Taylor b fear frustrated? Was she

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Speaker 3: you know, to get back because of the car ride.

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Speaker 3: So it's like, was so I can there are instances.

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Speaker 3: Again we don't know the full story, but clearly they're not. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I am not by any means saying that Taylor

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Speaker 3: it's all Taylor's fault or that it's all his fault.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying, at some point we have to pull

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Speaker 3: ourselves out of this and take ourselves offline and start

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Speaker 3: to actually do real work for family systems because and again,

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Speaker 3: what your kids see, they then they do grow up

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Speaker 3: thinking that's what they deserve.

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Speaker 4: From my experience, also same also as a child of that,

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Speaker 4: which is clearly obvious in the way that I keep

403
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Speaker 4: speaking about the child in this situation maddening to me.

404
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Speaker 4: Please be adults and get the help that you need.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I got to say too this new season,

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Speaker 3: I was just really hoping that she would find love

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Speaker 3: and happiness. It really just makes me sad for all

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Speaker 3: parties involved. I think Taylor has a lot of love

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Speaker 3: and happiness she needs to find with herself before she starts.

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Speaker 3: She did when she went to that retreat place. And

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Speaker 3: also one retreat does not come with me. I know,

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Speaker 3: I know, but I will say I am struggling to

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Speaker 3: watch this season given all the things and it's interesting too.

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Speaker 3: I think maybe we can talk about this on the

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Speaker 3: other podcast. But sometimes I don't want all the drama.

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Speaker 3: It feels too heavy.

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Speaker 4: Guys, I cannot get into Diamondwives to save my life.

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Speaker 2: I just kind of dis liked it, but I have

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Speaker 2: two Besides a few little things, it's gotten a little

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Speaker 2: too heavy. Yeah, Like, sometimes you can have drama and like,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is why I can watch Other Housewives

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Speaker 2: because it's like it's drama, but it's not like so heavy,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's like stupid drama a lot of the time.

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Speaker 2: This one's getting a little heavy for me too.

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Speaker 3: Agreed. If you are someone you know needs help, please

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Speaker 3: call the National and Domestic Violence Hotline one eight hundred

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Speaker 3: seven nine nine Safe one eight hundred seven nine nine

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Speaker 3: seven to two three three