1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Aaron Menke's Cabinet of Curiosities, a production of 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Grimm and Mild. Our world is full of 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: the unexplainable, and if history is an open book, all 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: of these amazing tales are right there on display, just 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: waiting for us to explore. Welcome to the Cabinet of Curiosities. 6 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: The rain can be cleansing, washing away everything from the 7 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: dirt on our cars to the memories of a bad day. 8 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: But a storm can erase a lot more, and if 9 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: we're not careful, it can leave our minds even cloudier 10 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: than the skies above. It was the summer of eighteen 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: seventy five in Alberta, Canada, and Sir Cecil Edward Denny 12 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: was on his way to a nice little hunting and 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: fishing spot along the Oldman River. Denny had been a 14 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: member of the Northwest Mounted Police, but today he was 15 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: manning a small boat looking for a place to unwind. 16 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: He noticed in the early afternoon that dark clouds had 17 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: started to form in the distance. Normally a thunderstorm wouldn't 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: be anything to worry about, but in this part of 19 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: Canada where Denny was traveling, they could be devastating the farmer, 20 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: Mounty just kept pressing forward. By the early afternoon, that 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: storm that had seemed so far away was suddenly right 22 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: above him. According to his own account of the event, 23 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: there was a heavy wind with hail, rain, and perpetual lightning, 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: followed by deafening peals of thunder, seemingly right overhead. As 25 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: the elements beat down on him. Filling the boat with water, 26 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: he floated a little while longer until he reached a 27 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: part of the shoreline where he could find refuge. He 28 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: continued to paddle, and as he got closer to land, 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: the storm began to subside, just for a moment, but 30 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: it was a long enough pause for Denny to hear 31 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: something from within the nearby woods drums. There was a 32 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: Native American encampment close by. He hitched the boat to 33 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: some nearby trees and ventured into the forest following the 34 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: sound of the drums. Shelter was only feet away, and 35 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: good thing too, because the storm had now come back 36 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: with a vengeance. He kept walking as the rain beat 37 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: down on him. It wasn't long before he came to 38 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: a clearing, and there it was a Native American camp 39 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: bustling with activity. They had fires to keep them warm, 40 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: and people were moving about almost as though the storm 41 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: wasn't affecting them at all. Denny was shocked because he 42 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: knew that the indigenous tribes didn't like to stay outside 43 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: during storms. They would hole up in their homes, avoiding 44 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: the thunder, which they saw as the sound of the 45 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: gods tossing boulders off the mountain. As Denny inched closer, 46 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: he could make out more of the encampment. According to 47 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: his ridings, he noticed about twenty lodges and some horses, 48 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: aside from the men, women and children also living there. Suddenly, 49 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: a crack of lightning struck at his feet, while a 50 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: crash of thunder rattled his ears. The combination sent him 51 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: flying backward. Lightning struck a tree only feet away. Denny 52 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: looked over and saw that it had practically been split 53 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: in two. A few minutes later, he slowly got to 54 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: his feet. The sound of the thunder still rang in 55 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: his ears, and as he stood, he looked out at 56 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: the open clearing where the Native American camp had stood, 57 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: and much to his amazement, it was gone. The lodges 58 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: and fires had disappeared, the horses had vanished, and the 59 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: sounds of beating drums had evaporated. Denny darted off in 60 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: search of a higher vantage point. After all, the camp 61 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: couldn't have just gotten up and walked away. He climbed 62 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: to the top of a river bank and looked down. 63 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: Sure enough, there was nothing there. Cold and wet from 64 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: the storm, Denny kept walking. He traveled another fifteen miles 65 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: until he reached a local forts at around midnight. By 66 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: then the rain had stopped. The following morning, Denny to 67 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: the other men what he had seen. One of them 68 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: just laughed at him, but he knew what he had 69 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: witnessed was no figment of his imagination. Refusing to accept defeat, 70 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: he set out that day with a Blackfoot interpreter to 71 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: try and find the encampment. It took some time, but 72 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: they eventually reached the location where Denny had first spotted it. 73 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: There was nothing there, well, not exactly nothing. There were 74 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: some stones covered in grass, and the remnants of an 75 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: old camp that had existed a long time ago. The 76 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: interpreter told Denny a story about how a group of 77 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: Blackfeet had come to this spot and killed an entire 78 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: tribe of Cree many years before, and if Denny had 79 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: any doubts. The two old skulls in the dirt were 80 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: all the evidence he needed. So had the rain washed 81 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: everything away? Or had these just been the ghosts of 82 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: the cree filling the night air with song. Denny didn't 83 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: have the answers. All he had were clouds of confusion 84 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: storming in his mind. Frederick had a dilemma. The Church 85 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: of England had come to him with a tremendously important task. 86 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: They wanted him to dig up the ruins of the 87 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: thousand year old Glastonbury Abbey. As an architect and expert 88 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: in medieval restoration, Frederick bly Bond certainly was the right 89 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: man for the job. But there was one problem. He 90 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: couldn't start digging, at least not yet. For centuries, Glastonbury 91 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: had been one of the most important Catholic churches in England. 92 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: Not only home to hundreds of monks and worshippers, it 93 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: also housed the tombs of three kings and a relic 94 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: rumored to be a piece of the Cross of Jesus. 95 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: In the fifteen hundreds, though, as Protestantism became the power 96 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: of the land, Glastonbury became a target. Under the direction 97 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: of Henry the eighth troops seized the abbey in fifteen 98 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: thirty nine, executing the ababbo and raising the buildings to 99 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: the ground. Ever since then, the land and the ruins 100 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: had belonged to private owners. Now four hundred years later, 101 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: in nineteen oh seven, the Church of England was finally 102 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: on the precipice of getting the ruins back to excavate them. 103 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: But it would take years of research before they could 104 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: break ground. If they started digging just anywhere, they might 105 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: damage the ruins, and besides, until the final deed was signed, 106 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: poor Frederick would have to sit tight. He, however, was 107 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: not of the waiting type. While he made his name 108 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: in the practical world of architecture, he had other more 109 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: obscure interests. You see, he believed that he knew a 110 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: way to start the excavation without ever lifting a single shovel. 111 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: This is why on November seventh of nineteen oh seven, 112 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: Frederick invited Captain John Allen Bartlett to his office. They 113 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: were going to dig up the abbey's past using a 114 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: new method automatic writing. Because John wasn't just a good 115 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: friend of Frederick's. He was a psychic medium who claimed 116 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: that he could speak to ghosts. Automatic writing is a 117 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: technique in which a living person channels the words of 118 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: the dead. They hold a pen to a piece of 119 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: paper and let the spirit take control, using the earthly 120 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: arm to write out a message from beyond the grave. 121 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: The instant John began writing in Frederick's office. It quickly 122 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: became clear that the dead were clamoring to be heard. 123 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: Dozens of voices came forward, but one rang through the loudest. 124 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: This spirit claimed his name was Johannes Bryant, a Glastonbury 125 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: monk who had lived from fourteen ninety seven to fifteen 126 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: thirty three. Over dozens of seances, John and Frederick got 127 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: to know the boisterous cleric with a love of fishing 128 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: and drinking of ale. Johannes told them about his life 129 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: at the abbey, describing a detailed plan of the building 130 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: that lay just beneath the soil. When Frederick was finally 131 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: allowed to break ground at the Ruins in nineteen oh eight, 132 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: the ghostly Monk's words proved to be deadly accurate. Every 133 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: chapel in Cloister was exactly where Johanns said it would be. 134 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: Frederick continued to excavate the abbey over the next decade, 135 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: winning praise and fame for his careful excavation. While he 136 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: was credited as a shrewd researcher and archaeologist, what he 137 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: didn't reveal was the source of his information about the abbey. 138 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: He knew both the Church of England and his intellectual 139 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: colleagues looked down on the world of spiritualism and the esoteric. 140 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: Even so, he couldn't suppress his love for the field. 141 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: In a few short years, Frederick joined nearly every psychic 142 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: association and secret society he could find. He was a 143 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: freemason and a theosophist. He joined the Society for Psychical 144 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: Research and even England's first ghost hunting club, and soon 145 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: enough he couldn't keep his theories to himself. In nineteen 146 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: nineteen he published a book called The Gait of Remembrance 147 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: and brought his esoteric beliefs out into the harsh light 148 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: of day. The Gates of Remembrance recounted exactly how Frederick 149 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: had used seances and ghostly advice to excavate Glastonbury Abbey. 150 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: It argued that beyond the grave, collective unconsciousness existed, He 151 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: had merely tapped into that unconsciousness in the form of 152 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: johannas to learn about the abbey. His colleagues, though, weren't impressed. 153 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 1: Other archaeologists quickly derided Frederick, claiming that he must have 154 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: gotten his information about the abbey from ancient records, not 155 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: a ghostly month. Some even pointed to the seance transcripts 156 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: as proof of the hoax, claiming the rudimentary Old English 157 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: in Latin that Johanna spoke sounded more like an English 158 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: schoolboy than a contemporary speaker. Because of all of this, 159 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: the Church of England fired Frederick in nineteen twenty one, 160 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: and by nineteen twenty six he had fled to America 161 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: to escape the damage to his reputation. He began a 162 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: second career there as a psychic investigator, and dedicated the 163 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: rest of his life to proving that ghosts really existed. 164 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: Frederick didn't seem to care much that his reputation as 165 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: an architect and archaeologist was ruined, because until the day 166 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: he died in nineteen forty five, Frederick never won ones 167 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: gave up the ghost. I hope you've enjoyed today's guided 168 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: tour of the Cabinet of Curiosities. Subscribe for free on 169 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or learn more about the show by visiting 170 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: Curiosities podcast dot com. The show was created by me 171 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey in partnership with how Stuff Works. I make 172 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: another award winning show called Lore, which is a podcast, 173 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: book series, and television show, and you can learn all 174 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: about it over at the Worldoflore dot com. And until 175 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: next time, stay curious.