1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power colli 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: Emily Jay I'm Emily Tank in San Francisco, and this 4 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology coming up in the next hour. Musk's 5 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: skepticism about bots on Twitter has one investor now suing 6 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: the company for more information. More on the threats to 7 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: blow up billion dollar buyout this hour, plus the future 8 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: flying cars are own ed Ludlow on the ground at 9 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: UP Summit in Bentonville, Arkansas, where mobility tech leaders and 10 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: investors have gathered. He will bring us an exclusive interview 11 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: with Joe b Aviation CEO later this hour, and my 12 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: exclusive conversation with a firm CEO, Max Lection on the 13 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: heels of Apple announcing it is offering a competing version 14 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: of buy now, Pay later and update now on Twitter. 15 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: And this Elon Musk saga Twitter shareholder has sued the 16 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: company in Delaware. John so Locke, who owns five shares 17 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: of Twitter, wants to judge to force the social media 18 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: platform to hand over internal files about spam and fake accounts. 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: This has become a hot button issue in the Elon 20 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: Musks four billion dollar potential buyout. Max Chafskin joins us 21 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: now with more so this on the back of the 22 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: Texas Attorney General also opening investigation into this spot issue. Max, 23 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: how are these going to potentially impact the deal? You know, 24 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: when when this deal first started back in March and 25 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: the Twitter executive team was so excited to have Elon 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: Musk and all of his meme stock, you know, followers 27 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: on board. Um, you know, we're seeing the flip side 28 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: of that, which is these lawsuits, which of course are 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: about real issues the bots, but also feel very much 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: like follow on bandwagon, um, basically trying to find ways 31 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: to back up the claims that Elon Musk has been 32 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: trying to put forward. And and it's probably important to 33 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: say that these are claims that there's not a lot 34 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: of basis for. In fact, there's there's not a lot 35 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: of reason beyond you know, kind of Elon Musk's personal 36 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: experience to think that Twitter's bought numbers are higher than 37 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: that you know, five percent figure that they've been disclosing 38 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: all along. Twitter says it's cooperating. Have they handed over 39 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: the information that they have or not? I mean, the 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: the perception here is that they're trying to hide something, right, Well, 41 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: and that's what that's kind of where Elon Musk's lawsuit 42 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: has has or or his claims that are that he 43 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: might be using to to to wheedle his way out 44 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: of this deal. Where where he's landed, which is not 45 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: that there are too many bots, but it's that Twitter 46 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: is not, you know, disclosing properly. And this is going 47 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: to be you know, a long, you know, a long dispute. 48 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: There's lots of room for interpretation here because of course, 49 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: the way that Twitter could you know, prove that it 50 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: doesn't have as many bots as Ellen thinks that it 51 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: has would be to turnover it's user data. But of 52 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: course you don't necessarily want to turn over all your 53 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: user data, especially not to somebody who's been kind of 54 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: continuously like tweet about the deal, uh since it was announced. 55 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: So so you could definitely see reasons why Twitter we 56 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: want to hold back to some extent. What are you 57 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 1: what do you think the odds are that this deal 58 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: goes through? I mean, it doesn't feel likely, does it. 59 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: And you know we're seeing, uh with that chart showing 60 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: the big gap between the offer and Twitter's current share price. 61 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: I mean it really feels like Elon Musk is doing 62 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: whatever he can uh to either get out of this 63 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: or at least at least get through it at a 64 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: lower price. On the other hand, of course, we're seeing 65 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: Twitter saying, you know, we had a deal. You know, 66 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: we're we're moving forward. So so I supposed it's possible 67 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: that this could, this could close, although it doesn't feel 68 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: likely at the moment. All right, now, you are also 69 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: in the meantime covering Cheryl Sandberg's resignation from METTA. You 70 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: still got a lot of people out there wondering why 71 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: and why Now you're looking at her legacy not just 72 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: at Facebook and Google, but on the Internet, saying that 73 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: she has left us with a future of targeted ads. 74 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: Talk to us about her influence on the inter net 75 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: at large. Yeah, and I think this has sort of 76 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: been lost to some extent with her announcement that she 77 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: was leaving. I think in part because of the way 78 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: that Cheryl Sandberg chose to make that announcement. In her 79 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: big farewell blog post, she talked about, you know, in 80 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: two thousand seven, when she first met Mark Zuckerberg, she 81 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: thought of the Internet as being this, you know, funny 82 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: little place for searching for you know, images, which of 83 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: course is totally crazy considering that Cheryl Sandberg for years 84 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: had built Google into this advertising monolith. I mean, she 85 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: was already a well known, very influential executive who had 86 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: been known for basically building the entire ad words and 87 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: ad sense business at Google, which are these personalized data 88 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: driven ads. It's sort of like what we think of 89 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: when we think of internet advertising. And Cheryl Sandberg was 90 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: the one who was out there in front talking about 91 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: how every business owner you know, in the country needed 92 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: to to adopt this, and we saw a kind of 93 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: do the same thing at Facebook. And now as she 94 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: kind of moves forward to her next act, I think 95 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: this this kind of creates a complication because as her 96 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: sort of biggest accomplishments, which was creating this kind of 97 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: scaffolding of personalized ads that have generated you know, billions 98 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: of dollars across two companies, you know, that's suddenly much 99 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: more controversial than it was before. It's it's both kind 100 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: of a feature her her greatest achievement, but also maybe 101 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: a vulnerability as she you know, moves to another job 102 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: in you know, in business or politics wherever she lands 103 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: in the future. Now, Apple has been adding more privacy 104 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: focused features. We saw more at ww d C yesterday. 105 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: This has negatively impacted hurt Meta and Facebook's business model. 106 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: Do you think targeted ads are eventually going away or 107 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: really never or not anytime soon? Well, I mean, you 108 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: know that's hard to say. Clearly, Mark Zuckerberg thinks that 109 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: that this is not the future. And I think if 110 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: you look at you know, why are Cheryl Sandberg and 111 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg this you know, wonderful partnership for fourteen years, 112 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: extremely lucrative for both parties. You know, why are they 113 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: parting ways now? I think part of the reason is 114 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: that Zuckerberg, you know, is obviously focused on this metaverse thing, 115 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: which is going to be less dependent on advertising. And 116 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: as you said, we have seen Apple um create, you know, 117 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: basically throw up barriers for for companies like Meta to 118 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: you know, to to track people across different websites. That's said, 119 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: just because Apple creates these privacy rules, it's not going 120 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: to stomp um websites and companies from collecting what's known 121 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: as first party data. So that's data inside of Apple, 122 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: data inside of Facebook and and these companies, these these 123 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: big tech giants Apple, Meta, Google and so on. They 124 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: have tons of data that is never going away, and 125 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: this and target advertising is always going to be a 126 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: huge business. The question is, you know, is it the 127 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: growth business that it once was? And I think that 128 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: is to be determined alright bloombox, Max Chafkin, thank you. 129 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: This first six months have been the weakest first half 130 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: for I P O s in years? How long will 131 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: the slow down enlistings way on Wall Street and Silicon 132 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: Valley and venture capital. I want to talk about all 133 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: this in more with Initialized Capital General partner Alda lu 134 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: Dennis Alda. Great to have you here in the studio. 135 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: Great to be here, thank you. So we've seen Sequoia, 136 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: hy Combinator, multiple firms come out with their version of 137 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: R I P good times. What is Initialized take? Well, 138 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, I think what we saw was the news 139 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: sort of trickling down slowly to founders, and I would 140 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: say about a month and a half ago, I was 141 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: hearing from one of LPs about the slowdown and they 142 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: were seeing it in their public markets and their books, 143 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: their public books, and VC sort of got the memo 144 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: from their own LPs. And right now I'm having the 145 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: conversation with our founders about how it really is looking 146 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: like this as a downturn. There's still some denial in 147 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: those ranks and um some defenses about how particular businesses 148 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: may be able to withstand that. But initial initialized take 149 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: is that yes, we are looking at a downturn, and 150 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: we shouldn't panic. We're seed stage investors, so we're in 151 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: the business of taking chances on founders and hoping that 152 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: they'll figure out their business models and uh to conserve 153 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: a little bit of capital for the longer term. The 154 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: big question is how the biggest the downturn going to 155 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: be sure, and I don't think anyone has the crystal ball, 156 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: but at least at the early stage, at scenes stage investing, 157 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: what we're really hoping is that they can find a 158 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: product that people want and that people will want to 159 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: grab out of their hands. And at that stage we're 160 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: always going to be in the business of taking those 161 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: chances and pivoting quickly and trying to find something that 162 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: people watch. What are you seeing are fewer rounds closing 163 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: right now or our founders saying I'm not even gonna 164 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: try to fundraise at this moment. Absolutely, I've been advising 165 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: companies to delay uh, you know, not to go out 166 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: and rush and do a panic fundraise, because I think 167 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: that vcs are exhausted from the last two years of 168 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: really really bullish markets, and I know so many that 169 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 1: are looking forward myself included to taking some time off 170 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: this summer. And so it's not a great time unless 171 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: you were already planning on fundraising anyway, to sort of 172 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: go out there and shake the trees for some more capital. 173 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: So what should founders do if they need to extend 174 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: their runway? Well, there's plenty of ways to cut costs 175 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: that don't involve raising capital. Uh and certainly um there 176 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: are leases that they may have that they could sublet. 177 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: We actually just put out a blog post about how 178 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: it's possible to um uh even cut maybe say a 179 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: small percentage of your staff or cut everyone back by 180 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: one day a week and that would reduce t of 181 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: uh of your labor expenses, which tend to be you know, 182 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,719 Speaker 1: seven seventy of the overall budget. That's and so you're 183 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: advising layoffs. Well, I wouldn't say we're advising layoffs. I 184 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: think we were are advising to not panic, take time 185 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: to prepare if you actually need to raise capital and 186 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: prepare your story and think about some cost cutting measures 187 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: that may not involve laying off, including UM cutting back 188 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: on expenses like snacks, or cutting back on UH retreats 189 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: for those companies that have gone remote, or cutting back 190 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: on offices. But suggest saying that employee employers cut employee 191 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: from five to four days a week. That's interesting. I 192 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: haven't heard of that before and it's certainly something should 193 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: tell me more about that idea. Yeah, Avery, talking employees 194 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: across the board? Are you talking about contractors? I think 195 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: it depends on the teams that are involved, But certainly, UM, 196 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: I think that we could afford to cut a certain 197 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: amount of days or cut everyone's salary proportionally, and the 198 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: most employees would be happy to accept that because if 199 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: it was looking them looking at the face of getting 200 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: cut entirely, or of their workforce getting cut versus taking 201 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: across the board pay cut, which my husband's company did 202 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: during the start of covid UH, they accepted it and 203 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: they were happy that the cuts weren't deeper. What what 204 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: company was that, I don't know if I can disclose 205 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: on TV and but but they've they've come out of 206 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: the they've come out of COVID just fine, as as 207 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: many companies saying, So let's talk about what initializes looking 208 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: for on the road ahead. I mean, are you still 209 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: looking at are you are you still putting money out 210 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: now or not? Have you also paused your investing? No, 211 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: I mean we're in the business of being optimists. Were 212 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 1: in the business of looking company looking for companies, and 213 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: I've had the benefit of being an investor and being 214 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: in this market through a couple of downturns, and so 215 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: absolutely we're still looking at pitches, We're still talking to founders. 216 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: But I do think it's true that uh, I personally 217 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: was very very busy over the last couple of years 218 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: and looking forward to taking some time off as my 219 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: kids school ends on Friday. UM. So, when you look ahead, 220 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: what are the sectors, the bets, the trends that you 221 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: think are actually going to flourish in this market? Like, 222 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: what are you most excited about? There's a lot of 223 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: different sectors that I'm excited about. UM. I think that 224 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: for one, I'm interested in the markets that appeal to 225 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: UM you know, consumers that may not have received m 226 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: software transformations in their businesses. Another industry that I'm interested 227 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: in is sort of beauty. I think that's the one 228 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: that has stoed up well in historical downturns UM and 229 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: generally appeals to more female or underrepresented groups of the 230 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: population as far as consumer investments go. And UM, you know, 231 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 1: I can't. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention our 232 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: funds focus on sort of crypto and with free technologies, 233 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: which is one that we're still actively pursuing. Well, we've 234 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: talked to Gary tan had Nauseam, your partner about those. Um, 235 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your view on all that's happening 236 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: with US initialized Capital General partner Paul to luke Gannist. Well, 237 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: they were once bitter rivals, but now Weymo and Uber 238 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: are teaming up. The companies have just announced what they 239 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: are calling a deep, long term partnership. Weymo will connect 240 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: its autonomous trucking operation to Uber Freight. This comes just 241 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: a few months after the companies ended a drawn out 242 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: legal battle over self driving technology. Weymo's trucking service, weymo Via, 243 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: is expected to be running on Uber Freights network within 244 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: the year and what timing. Both ubers EO Dark Casrashah 245 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: and Waymo COO CEO to Quedral Mama Kana. We'll be 246 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: joining us at the Bloomberg Tech Summit tomorrow. Mama Kana 247 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: will be sitting down right here with me on the 248 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: show as well. Coming up, we're gonna get a status 249 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: update on air taxis and exclusive interview with Joe by 250 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: Aviation and our own ed Ludlow joining us from a 251 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: summit on the future of transportation. ED. That's right, and 252 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: we're on the ground, but we're also up in the air. 253 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: We're talking all things that fly, all things that electric, 254 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: all things that our mobility. This is Bloomberg. Let's go 255 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: live now to the up summit in Bentonville, Arkansas. Our 256 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: own at Ludlow live on the ground at this invite 257 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: only gathering of mobility tech CEOs, investors and startups. That 258 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: is over one trillion dollars of assets in the room. 259 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: He's joined out by a special guest. ED. Yeah, and 260 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: it's one guy that everyone wants to speak to, Joe 261 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: ben Vett, CEO of Joe Aviation. We're rubbing shoulders with 262 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: all kinds of people here, right. We have investors, we 263 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: have other CEOs, we have corporates that want to collaborate 264 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: with CEOs, what are you trunting people about? What's your 265 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: message right now? So what's really exciting right now? This 266 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: is an amazing event. It's a convergence of amazing CEOs 267 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: and leaders from around the world were really focused on 268 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: sustainable aviation and how do we reduce the impact on 269 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: our environment from aviation. We're talking electrical vertical takeoff and 270 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: landing flying. I call it flying taxi. Right, let's call 271 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: it what it is, flying taxi. Where are you in 272 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: your cycle at job aviation for making this real? Because 273 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: that's the other conversation that's happening here in the corridors right. 274 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: A lot of this seems a long way in the future. Yeah, 275 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: So we've been working on this for more than a decade. Uh, 276 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: this is a really fantastic future and it's coming true today. 277 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: We've we've been flying full scale aircraft since we've been 278 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: certifying them with the f A since We've had really 279 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: exciting news just today on additional progress with the FA 280 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: on our certification program. So the momentum is really building. 281 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: So it sounds like you have a pretty high opinion 282 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: of f a A and the work, the pace that 283 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: they're doing. Things I've heard from others that are kind 284 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: of frustrated with the FAA because of how restricted they are. 285 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: But but you're happy we wear things stand from our 286 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: regulatory standpoint, the f A has done an incredible job 287 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: in with the industry over decades to make aviation the 288 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: safest mode of transportation that we have. It's orders of 289 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: magnitude safer than any other mode we have. And that's 290 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: really really exciting, and that's what d f a's mission is. 291 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: So asking me about the aircraft themselves, where are we 292 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: in production? What is the target for production over say 293 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: the next few months and next year. So we've we've 294 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: just completed our pilot production facility. This gives us the 295 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: ability to bruise tens of aircraft per year. Um, we 296 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: are we have a close partnership with Toyota and right 297 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: we are uh working with them on the plans for 298 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: our Phase one production facility, which will be able to 299 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: produce hundreds of aircraft per year. So what is the 300 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: idea that you you work with Toyota to learn from 301 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: their experience in manufacturing or you use their facilities. How 302 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: does that clay out in practice? Yeah? So to it 303 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: is amazing. They're they're known around the world for being 304 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: able to build very complex machines UH an incredibly affordable 305 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: price with spectacular reliability. Right. And so when we looked 306 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: at who we wanted to partner with to take this 307 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: to the scale that it needs to go, beyond the 308 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: scale that aviation has ever been done before, we selected 309 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: to it as there's really an ideal partner. I was 310 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: chatting with Alaska Air CEO Ben Minoicucci earlier, and you know, 311 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: he's an engineer just like you, and you know he 312 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: has some skepticism about the use case for battery electric 313 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: in long distance flying in you know, larger aircraft. What's 314 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: your take on that, because you believe it's essential from 315 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: a cobbon standpoint, from an environmental standpoint, absolutely right. And 316 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: he's absolutely right. I've been working on electric aircraft since okay, 317 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: uh We've we've had an order of magnitude improvement in 318 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: the specific energy of batteries over that period of time. 319 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: But we have a real urgent problem that we need 320 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: to solve today. Aviation is one of the highest climate 321 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: impact things we do on a daily basis, right, and 322 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: it's imperative that we reduce that environmental footprint and electric 323 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: propulsion is the solution, but battery electric only moves you. 324 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: It's very valuable when you want to move across town 325 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: or between cities that are close together. When we want 326 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: to move around the planet, the solution is hygrogeneer electric 327 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: hydrogen is three times higher specific energy than jet fuel. 328 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: But that's why we talk about flying taxi. We have 329 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: put emphasis on that. There's also the use case. I 330 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: know that you're focused on the flying taxi, but the 331 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: big name in town is Walmart. You know, they're interesting 332 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: towards me about other use cases. Delivery, it's a possible avenue, 333 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: right yeah, so, uh, we're very excited about moving people 334 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: across town. But there's also a really valuable use case 335 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: in moving goods. And we have an amazing partnership with 336 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: the DoD UH where we are significantly reducing their operating 337 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: costs okay uh significantly uh, improving reliability and making it 338 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: possible for them to move goods around on basis around 339 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: the US people around basis in the US in a 340 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: in a much more efficient case. So that's that's a 341 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: government relationship. That's that's could be lucrative for you. When 342 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: are you going to be meaningfully revenue generating. You know, 343 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: give me a real timeline for when this is a 344 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: substantive business. So we are going to build this slowly. Okay, 345 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: this doesn't We're not going to be able to turn 346 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: it on in UH cities around the world on day one. Again. Today, 347 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: we're building tens of aircraft. Uh in the next few years, right, 348 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: you able to have the capacity to build hundreds of 349 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 1: aircraft over the arc. We need orders of magnitude more 350 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: aircraft than that, all right, Uh in order to really 351 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: bring this vision to life of being able to move people, 352 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: allow people to live where they want to live, work 353 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: where they want to work. And UH. This this is 354 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: if you think of back back through the epochs of history, 355 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: as we moved from uh walking to riding horses, to 356 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: the railroad and the automobiles. They reshaped our civilization. And 357 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: you think it will do this time. I'm sorry to 358 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: cut you off, jo Van. We we always need more time. 359 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: That's Joe Ben beven CEO j V Aviation and and 360 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: fascinating conversation. He's gonna take me for a ride, he's 361 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: promised me. All right, You'll have to keep us posted 362 00:19:54,800 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: on how that goes. Thank you. Welcome back to Bloomer Technology. 363 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco. One of the biggest 364 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: threats to the United States could be its lack of 365 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: modern technology inside the government, in part due to bureaucracy, 366 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: from expanding AI capabilities for the military to beefing up cybersecurity. 367 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: There's a very real concern that the US has fallen 368 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: behind in the tech race. My next guest and others 369 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: working in the Biden administration are trying to fix that. 370 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: Joining me now, Kirsten Todd. She's the chief of Staff 371 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: at CEASE of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. It's 372 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: great to see you in person after interviewing you remotely 373 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,239 Speaker 1: for years. Um, thank you for joining us. Thank you. 374 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: So look, there's this new Pentagon AI chief who wants 375 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: to crack the bureaucratic inertia when it comes to some 376 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: of these issues. How would you rate how modernized US 377 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: technology to fight some of these threats is at this 378 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: moment and how much better do you want it to be. 379 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: I think when we look at where we are, we're 380 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: always assessing the legacy infrastructure, what we're working from, and 381 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: where we're going. I think what's so critical about where 382 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: the Biden administration is today is that you have leaders 383 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: across the government, across agencies at d D the director 384 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: of SISSIGE and easterly Chris Ingliss, the National Cyber Director, 385 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: who all appreciate the value and the need to bring technology, 386 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: modern day technology into government. And there are so many 387 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: efforts that have been legislated over the last year that 388 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: really enforce and encourage that's spending to bring that technology. 389 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: We know that government can't secure the nation or industry 390 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: by itself. We've got to be working together to identify 391 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: the right technologies and bring them in. And we've seen 392 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: a lot of efforts that are actually creating the resources 393 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: and an enormous amount of money. Um SISSA has a 394 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: budget now of over two billion with the newly appropriated 395 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: funds to bring that technology into modernize government and to 396 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: keep it evolving to where the threats are. Last I 397 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: heard there was five hundred thousand open jobs in cyber security. 398 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: Is that for real? And what are the consequences of 399 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: that that all of those jobs aren't being filled? So 400 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: I would even say that the numbers more because when 401 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: we look how much more well I think when we 402 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: look at cybersecurity jobs. Everybody is part of the cyber workforce, 403 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: and when we think about the accountability and responsibility that 404 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: we have in cybersecurity, we all have that role. So 405 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: I'm always hesitant to look at a specific number because 406 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: I think we've they're all these positions. But it also 407 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 1: pigeon fols what a cyber workforce looks like, and I 408 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: think we often think it's just math and science. But 409 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: one of the things that we're very focused on at 410 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: SISSA is building out a diverse workforce, which isn't just 411 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: about racial diversity, gender diversity, socioeconomic but it's really looking 412 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 1: at diversity of thinking and aptitudes. And I'm really excited 413 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: that we're going to actually be launching the second Neurodiversity 414 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: Pilot in the federal government, where we're going to be 415 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: bringing neuro diversity neurodiverse individuals into the government to create 416 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: a more inclusive workplace. With the ongoing war on Ukraine, 417 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: how would you rate the level of cyber threats from 418 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: Russia and others at this moment? I think when we 419 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: get what's happened with Russia and the invasion of Ukraine, 420 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: it's a marathon. We don't know where we are in 421 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: the marathon, but this is a long term battle, and 422 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: I think as we see this, we have to appreciate 423 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: what we've learned from this experience so far. One thing 424 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: that CIS launched last August was the Joint Cyber Defense Collaborative, 425 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: which is about operational collaboration with industry, where we're partnering 426 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: in real time with industry. We set up slack channels, 427 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: we developed a plan, we exercise the plan, and now 428 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: we're working not just with our industry partners in the 429 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: United States, but actually with the Ukrainian SEARCH, which is 430 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: the computer Emergency Response team. They've given us information, we 431 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: share that with our industry partners, and we're able to 432 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: see a much better profile and threat picture than we've 433 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: ever been able to see before. Some critics say that 434 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: the war in Ukraine has caught the U. S. Government 435 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: flat footed when it comes to cyber and that we're 436 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: seeing the shifting of responsibility to the private sector. How 437 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: would you respond to that? So, I actually would disagree 438 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: with that pretty strongly, because actually in November we put 439 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: out something called yields Up in anticipation of a potential invasion, 440 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: where we asked industry to do several things. We said, 441 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: lower the threshold for reporting to government. We said, empower 442 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: your sissos, look at things like multi factor authentication. And 443 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: what we've heard from industry systems across the boards that 444 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: that was actually a very helpful tool because it gave 445 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: them a heads up on not what the specific threat 446 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: was going to be, but the need to create resiliency 447 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: within these industry partners. There's an effort to scale up 448 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: and broaden membership in the j C d C. How 449 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: is that effort going, and you know, what would you 450 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: like to see the role of that part of the 451 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: organization be. Ultimately, I think for those of us that 452 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: have been in this space for so long, you know, 453 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: the term public private partnership lost its meeting, and so 454 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: what we're seeing with operational collaboration is this real time 455 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: threat and information sharing. So when we look at building 456 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: this out, we're building it out to where the threat 457 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: has been. So for example, with Russia Ukraine, we brought 458 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: in financial institutions, We brought in the energy sector because 459 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,719 Speaker 1: those are where we had disconcerns about the threats. So 460 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: I think this is one of these very deliberate, dynamic 461 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: processes to bring in the right industry partners as we're 462 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: moving out. So what do you think businesses still need 463 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: to do that they're not doing enough of yet. So 464 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: what we'd love to see I think is important is 465 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: to institutionalize the shields up approach with these efforts about 466 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: lowering the threshold for reporting and being able to empower 467 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: as systems. But importantly, I think we're at a place 468 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: now where we need to ensure that security is innovation, 469 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: that secure innovation is the next step where security is 470 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: a differentiator. We talk a lot about baking security into 471 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: products that would go a long way right now, but 472 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: the ability to see security as a positive effort. You know, 473 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: if we start to see startups take on security as 474 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: something that's an advantage and starting to make the business 475 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: case for why to build this in, I think we'll 476 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: see a lot of progress. And then I have to 477 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: make a plug for multi factor authentication. We launched our 478 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: multi factor authentication campaign this week. We're calling it more 479 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: than a password, just getting everybody to take that on. 480 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: The only other piece that I'll mention is that organizations 481 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: focus so much on their own security, which is critical, 482 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: but now we have a responsibility with the increased threat 483 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: landscape to really secure the digital ecosystem, look at small 484 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: businesses and other elements so that we can raise the 485 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: resilience of both the public and private sector. All right, 486 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,719 Speaker 1: Kirsten Todd of SSA, thank you so much for joining us. 487 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: Good to see you, Great to see you. I'm like, 488 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Kirsten is one of the many 489 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: featured speakers at our Bloomberg Tech Summit tomorrow again. That 490 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: starts noon Eastern nine am Pacific. We're gonna be talking 491 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: about cybersecurity, gaming, travel, crypto e commerce, and a whole 492 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: lot more. Coming up, we'll look at crypto e t s. 493 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: How are they faring against the wider crypto winter we'll 494 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: discuss This is Bloomberg time now for our Crypto report 495 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: and a look at crypto l A t f s, 496 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: which are overrepresented in the industry's worst performing list so 497 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: far this year. Are crypto contributional I bosst here with more. 498 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: Shanelle explain what's happening here. Yeah, what's interesting to me, 499 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: Emily is that when you look at the decline in bitcoin, 500 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: which is a little over thirty percent on the year, 501 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: and you look at what's happening in the t F world, 502 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: which are often tied to stocks tied to bitcoin, the 503 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: performance is actually much much worse. Sometimes in case almost 504 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: twice as bad. Bloomer's critic Gryfil found that the six 505 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: worst performing non leveraged e t f s we're all 506 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: tied to crypto company. So what does that mean? Global 507 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: X Blockchain down sixty this year, van Act Digital Transportation 508 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: with the ticker d APP down sixt fix here again 509 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: nearly double what you're seeing in bitcoin itself, and nearly 510 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: double what you're seeing in the likes of Bitcoin Future 511 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: ETFs like Beto, so b a t O so they 512 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: again they're holding the likes of coin Base, Riot Blockchain, 513 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: Marathon Digital, Galaxy Digital. We've talked about this before. The 514 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: equites that are trading alongside Bitcoin have seen a bigger 515 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,239 Speaker 1: drop off this year in many regards, and that's what 516 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: you're seeing in the ts all right nationally. Thanks for 517 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: that update. I want to talk about all that and 518 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: more with Matthew Ball, managing partner at a Billion Co 519 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: and Matt Hogan, CIO at bit Wise Asset Management. Both 520 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: of you are out with your own news together launching 521 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: a new index fund along with multi Coin Capital Matthew, 522 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: I'll start with you tell us more about this new 523 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: fund and how it works. Sure, So, the goal with 524 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: the new fund was really to provide qualified purchasers an 525 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 1: opportunity to invest in a diversified, expertly constructed thematic index 526 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: of crypto tokens forties specifically that are consistent with the 527 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,479 Speaker 1: metaverse theme. Our goal was to take a look at 528 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: the entire ecosystem, focus on bona fite liquidity tested, stress 529 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: tested securities, and to provide yet another diversified access path 530 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: to a multi trillion dollar investment opportunity. So, matt the 531 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: fund is only open to qualified purchasers. How do you 532 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: identify those? Sure? Great question, Emily. Qualified purchasers are individuals 533 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: in the US that have five million or more in 534 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: liquid assets. So this is one quarter of the market. 535 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: A big story about crypto is it's often cracked open 536 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: the market in these areas before it's expanded. The metaverse 537 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: is obviously a very exciting and very early opportunity, and 538 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: that's why it's most appropriate for this qualified purchaser market. Eventually, 539 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: we'd love to open it up more broadly, but that's 540 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: where we are today. Now, Matthew, your metaverse e t F, 541 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: which we've talked a lot about, is down almost so 542 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: far this year. Yes, so much of the market is down. 543 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: But you know why should investors think that this et 544 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: F is the right call? Well, I think the perspective 545 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: on the met V e t F is it's about 546 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: down year to date. That compares to about for the 547 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: triple queues. A reflection of the fact that we are 548 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: over indexed to growth companies commensurate with the expectation that 549 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: over the coming decade. Goldman Sachs City Morgan Stanley estimate 550 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: that between eight and thirteen trillion in annual GDP will 551 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: come from this sector. That's fort of the digital economies 552 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: growth and fifteen percent of the world economy. Over Indexing 553 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: to growth is often a good play. Year to date, 554 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: it has proven not to be as relates to this 555 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: specific product. I see it as yet another asset class 556 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: that too many, ourselves included, believe is essential. I'm an 557 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: early stage and late stage private investor. The e t 558 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: F is designed for public markets exposure, and this product 559 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: is designed for the cryptocurrency and blockchain environment. So this 560 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: is really about you see on the future, Matt, how 561 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: do you see this fund evolving. Let's say five years 562 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: from now. Oh, I think it's going to be a 563 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: very big deal. You know, if you talk about the 564 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: metaverse and you don't look one year out or two 565 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: years out, but five years or ten years out. I 566 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: think a lot of people feel confident that our immersion 567 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: in the digital world is going to increase, and that's 568 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: going to mean that these assets, which are really the 569 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: core infrastructure on which an open metaverse will be built, 570 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: should grow, should become common names, and we should get 571 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: more and more assets in the fund. So we're very 572 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: early in this opportunity. I suspect five years from now 573 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: this will be, as Matt said, a much larger asset class. 574 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: These assets will be much more familiar. But investors do 575 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: have the opportunity to access them today. They're able to 576 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: get in early on this decade long mega trend. So 577 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,479 Speaker 1: I would love to get your thoughts, Matt on on 578 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: the crypto winter that just seems to be ongoing and 579 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: colder on some days than others. We can't seem to 580 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: Bitcoin can't seem to break out of this thirty thousand 581 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: dollar route. You know, where is this going? How long 582 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: does it last? Yeah? I think what we've seen is 583 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: a macro induced crypto winner. We've seen a rewriting of 584 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: all growth investments, and that includes crypto. If you look 585 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: under the hood, the sort of fundamentals of crypto continue 586 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: to be strong. Venture capital activity is strong, Developer activity 587 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: is strong, new project and launches are strong. Companies like 588 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: coin based are doing interesting things. So underneath the surface, 589 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: all this great activity is going on. We need the 590 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: macro markets to normalize and then you'll see the impact 591 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: of that fundamental progress. I suspect we still have a 592 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: few months to go before those macro markets normalized, but 593 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: once they do, at least historically, what you've seen is 594 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: crypto rebound aggressively because the underlying trends are just so positive, 595 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: and that continues to be true in this market. You know, Matthew, 596 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 1: it can be hard for investors to believe in in 597 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: this view of the future, whether it is crypto or 598 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: the metaverse. The Queen Jubilee was this week. We saw 599 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: a hologram of the Queen in a carriage. You tweeted 600 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: about it. How do you see this as uh, you know, 601 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: an indication of where the metaverse and some of these 602 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: future technologies are headed. The monarchy verse as you say, 603 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: I think the most important thing is to recognize that 604 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: the advent of graphics based computing using three D simulation 605 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: to solve problems that previously we're outside of our reach, 606 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: while also recognizing that younger generations, in particular I grew 607 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: up using text My identity was reflected by an email 608 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: address and a message board user name. Slowly grew into 609 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: more and more multimedia, more live experiences, and now we see, 610 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: through roadblocks, Minecraft and others, an entire new generation gen 611 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: Z that is reflecting themselves through three D objects, three 612 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: D avatars existing in three D space. The confluence of 613 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: graphics based computing on the industrial side, mixed with societal 614 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: and behavioral changes among younger demographics, boasted by new technological 615 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: paradigms such as blockchain and imminent XR hardware, gives me 616 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: confidence in what's around the corner. Holograms and holography, a 617 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: field that we previously believed was just for Star Trek 618 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: and the Jetsons, is actually imminent. We're going to see 619 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: it deployed globally in retail stores over the coming years. 620 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: All Right, We'll be watching Matthew Ball Appillion co Matt Hogan, 621 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: bit Wise Asset Management. Good to have you both. We'll 622 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: keep our eyes on your E T F. Apple pay 623 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: Later lets you split the cost of an Apple Pay 624 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: purchase into four equal payments spread over six weeks, with 625 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: zero interest and no fees of any kind. And Apple 626 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: pay Later is available everywhere Apple Pay is accepted in 627 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: apps and online. That was Apple, they're officially unveiling it's 628 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: new by now pay later service, Apple pay Later, allowing 629 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 1: customers to split purchases through Apple Pay with four payments, 630 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: interest free over six weeks. That announcement initially caused shares 631 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: of a firm which offers a similar service to fall, 632 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: but they've rebounded, joining me now exclusively in this week's 633 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: edition of Teconomics is a firm CEO and co founder 634 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: Max leve Kiction. So Max is big question of what 635 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: this means for a firm and other b n p 636 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: L services. We want to know how big your mote is. 637 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: A firm is lined up big merchants that are you know, 638 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: very much embedded in what you offer, like Walmart, Amazon, 639 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: Major airlines, Shopify. Will Apple be able to penetrate all 640 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: these merchants? So, first of all, thank you for listening 641 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: out our motes. I think they're quite significant, just as importantly, 642 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: and that's really not why I'm not particularly worried about 643 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: Apple pay entering the biopulator space. They're focused on the 644 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,399 Speaker 1: convenience of a six week product, which I think is great, 645 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: and there's plenty of competitors, and they should be worried. 646 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: I think this spells certain level of concern for folks 647 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: that are really specialized in this really short term product. 648 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: We spent ten years building out technology, data partnerships, integrations, 649 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: really really good underwriting models so that we can offer 650 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: consumers plans from six weeks to sixty months that is 651 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: unique and different and special, and it involves not just 652 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: data and underwriting, also involves capital partnerships figuring out how 653 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: to manage capital markets in you know, rising interest r environments, etcetera. 654 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 1: So we feel very very good about just to sheer 655 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: complexity of what we do protects us really well. That said, 656 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm genuinely excited for two reasons about Apple pleat or One. 657 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: They chose the right thing by consumers. The no late fees, 658 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: no gimmicks, no tracks, no fees of any kind. That's 659 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: a really the right message. And it sends the right 660 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: statement to the rest of the world. Credit cards, frankly 661 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: have some real competition, and it's great to to hear 662 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: companies powerful as Apple say that out loud, there's a 663 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: better alternative. And part two, I think just telling the world, 664 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: telling the consumer that this is a thing, this is 665 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: the thing that better than your credit card, including perhaps 666 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: Apple's own credit card, is great. So we feel like 667 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: this creates a really nice tail wind for US. But 668 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: Apple does have a huge potential base of one billion 669 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: iPhone users that has to be too big for even 670 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: the largest merchants to ignore. How do you think about that? 671 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: And mean are you are you preparing for a cut 672 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: of what you know a firm now gets and you 673 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: know buy now pay later requests to go to Apple. 674 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: You know, I think in the world of TRUSI or 675 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: some maybe that's what I've been a concern. But just 676 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: for context, in the US, buy Now Pay Later is 677 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: I believe some five percent of e commerce and of 678 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: commerce overall, it's really tiny. I don't think there's much concern. 679 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: When Paypall announced their entry into the space, also was 680 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: the six weeks product. I think everyone was sort of 681 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: pulling their breath a little bit. And we've stated at 682 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: the time that this just isn't going to register in 683 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: our world because there's just so much ground to cover. 684 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: We're all competing with credit cards, and credit cards are 685 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: competing with cash. There's a lot of room to grow 686 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: for all involved. So no, not concern all. I have 687 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 1: to ask about your broader view on the macro environment. 688 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: Elon Musk says he has a super bad feeling about 689 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: the economy. Tesla laying off ten percent, Klara buy now, 690 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: pay later competitor again, maybe not apples to apples, but 691 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: they're laying How do you feel about the economy? Does 692 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: a firm have any layoffs or hiring freezes planned? We're 693 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: not just not laying off, sorry for double negative, We're 694 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: actually hiring. Um I think laying off is you know, 695 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: no comment on Eline, he's got feelings that I only 696 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,280 Speaker 1: wish I could match. But I think in my world, 697 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: when you feel the need to hire, that means you 698 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: haven't done the necessary thinking and working in the past. 699 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,240 Speaker 1: And so we are hiring because we have real needs 700 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: to grow the product, to build new things, to deliver 701 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: value to consumers and merchants. Most importantly right now as 702 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,399 Speaker 1: the economy taters on. You know, Kuno's recession, down tourn 703 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's not. You know, it's going to 704 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 1: get worse before it gets better. We have a mission 705 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: to deliver spending power in a responsible way to consumers 706 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: and to improve the top line and growth of our 707 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: merchant partners, and we take it very, very seriously. We're 708 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: gearing up for time to shine, for growth, for new products, 709 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: new ways of delivering value, and that's why we need 710 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: more people. There's certainly no no, no, no time to 711 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: rest for us. We have a lot of words to do. 712 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: A keyword you just use there is responsible. We are 713 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: hearing more and more stories of especially young people, getting 714 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: in trouble with buy now, pay later. Are you doing 715 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: more to warn some of your potential customers about the 716 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: risks of taking out a number of small, different loans 717 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: and the longer term impact it could have. I mean, 718 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: as we've talked about, this has drawn the scrutiny of regulators. 719 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: First of all, I mean I've said it before, but 720 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: I'll repeat it. I think it's really important that the 721 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: regulators understand how this particular flavor works. I think as 722 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: they dig in deeper, they will see that this is 723 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: a better product than a credit card, simply because credit 724 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: cards essentially allow you to refinance your own debts in perpetuity, 725 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: which is not that different from paida lending. And so 726 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: I think it's really really important that regulators see what 727 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: by now pay lator can do, which I hollly believe 728 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,439 Speaker 1: is a healthier can shumor product. Too. It is really 729 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: important for consumers to understand when they're overextended. The underlying 730 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 1: reason why we chose to never charge lafees was that 731 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,280 Speaker 1: we are permanently aligned with the borrower. If the borrower 732 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: is late, banks and credit cards make more money. That 733 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: is a bad misalignment of interest, especially in a downturn. 734 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: We don't make a penny if consumers can pay us 735 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: back if they're late. We just have to find a 736 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: way of not making the mistake again, basically, and so 737 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: this lack of lafees is a really powerful motivator for 738 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: us to design products and to approve only as far 739 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: as we believe people will pay us back. And that's 740 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: one side of it. The other side is you have 741 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: to help people build their credit history. Firm has always 742 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 1: reported with those industries laying us furnished information to the bureaus, 743 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: specifically so that the consumers can build their history with 744 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: the credit bureaus. Majority of my competitors don't do that. 745 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: I think it's a really really important social mission and 746 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: we're very committed to that as well. So we feel 747 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: like we're doing a lot to be on the right 748 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: side here and we'll certainly do more. Exelection CEO and 749 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: co founder of a firm, Thanks for joining us so 750 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: quickly on the back of that Apple announcement. Appreciate hearing 751 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: your perspective, and that doesn't for this edition of the show. 752 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,800 Speaker 1: We've got a huge day tomorrow. The Bloomberg Technology Summit 753 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: is happening. The theme is looking Forward. Andy Jazzy, the 754 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: CEO of Amazon, Dar Kasra Shah he at uber too, 755 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: Kedram Wakana of Weymo, the CEO of MasterCard as well