Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we love
Speaker 1: us some Sid Colson, but we would never willingly be
Speaker 1: passengers on her plane. It's definitely not you said, it's
Speaker 1: us sure. On today's show, we'll be kicking it with
Speaker 1: broadcaster Carrie Champion and unpacking what she learned while hosting
Speaker 1: her new podcast series The Making of a Rivalry Caitlin
Speaker 1: Clark Versus Angel Reese. Plus an update on the Jordan
Speaker 1: Childs bronze medal saga, more cryptic WNBA tweets, and an
Speaker 1: ode to a coold Weather essential. It's all coming up
Speaker 1: right after this Welcome back. Here's what you need to
Speaker 1: know today. On Monday, Team USA Olympic gymnast Jordan Childs
Speaker 1: submitted an appeal to the Swiss Federal Supreme Court over
Speaker 1: the Court of Arbitration for Sport or CAS's decision that
Speaker 1: resulted in her being stripped of her individual bronze medal
Speaker 1: in the floor exercise. Now to jog your memory on
Speaker 1: this whole saga, Jordan originally finished fifth in the floor
Speaker 1: exercise final at the Paris Olympics, but her score increased
Speaker 1: by a tenth of a point after her coach submitted
Speaker 1: an inquiry, asserting that the judges didn't credit her for
Speaker 1: one of her skills. That boost ended up pushing Childs
Speaker 1: past to Romanian gymnasts and onto the podium for bronze,
Speaker 1: setting up that epic photo that we all remember with
Speaker 1: her in Smoane Biles and Rebecca Andrage. So five days later,
Speaker 1: after Romanian officials file to complete with CIS, they announced
Speaker 1: that the inquiry on Child's behalf was submitted four seconds
Speaker 1: past the one minute deadline. CIS called for the results
Speaker 1: of the competition to be reversed, and the International Olympic
Speaker 1: Committee stripped Chiles of her bronze medal. USA Gymnastics attempted
Speaker 1: to appeal that CIS decision on Chiles's behalf, claiming that
Speaker 1: the organization had video evidence showing that her coach's inquiry
Speaker 1: was submitted in forty seven seconds, well within the deadline.
Speaker 1: CIS declined the appeal on the basis of rules that
Speaker 1: quote do not allow for an arbitral award to be
Speaker 1: reconsidered even when conclusive new evidence is presented end quote.
Speaker 1: Chiles new appeal this week claims that the CIS's decision
Speaker 1: ignored her quote right to be heard and She cites
Speaker 1: a conflict of interest by the president of the CIS
Speaker 1: arbitration panel due to his previous work for You Guessed
Speaker 1: at Romania. It also includes details about how CIS initially
Speaker 1: used the wrong email addresses to try to get in
Speaker 1: touch with representatives of USA Gymnastics and the US Olympic
Speaker 1: and Paralympic Committee. While the appeal to the Swiss Tribunal
Speaker 1: was submitted under Jordan's name by her attorneys, it was
Speaker 1: done with the support of both USA Gymnastics and the USOPC.
Speaker 1: In a statement, USA Gymnastics said quote USAG is closely
Speaker 1: coordinating with Jordan and her legal team and will make
Speaker 1: supportive filings with the court in the continued pursuit of
Speaker 1: justice for Jordan end quote. As part of her appeal,
Speaker 1: Jordan's team submitted video footage from the documentary crew that
Speaker 1: was taping teammates Simone Biles during the Olympics. In the footage,
Speaker 1: Child's coach to Seal Landy, can be heard telling an
Speaker 1: official that she wanted to submit an appeal within the
Speaker 1: one minute deadline now because the Swiss Federal Tribunal only
Speaker 1: hears appeals if they meet certain limited restrictions. For example,
Speaker 1: if CIS procedures weren't followed, it was crucial for Jordan's
Speaker 1: legal team to cite problems with the process and not
Speaker 1: just a decision itself. As you can see, this story
Speaker 1: is ongoing. We'll keep you updated. Two women's college hoops
Speaker 1: some unsettling news. An Oregon man, Robert Cole Parmally was
Speaker 1: charged Monday for stalking and harassing Yukon women's basketball star
Speaker 1: page Beckers. He was arrested on Friday by Yukon police,
Speaker 1: who said they were made aware of him way back
Speaker 1: in June after he sent the school's communications department a
Speaker 1: number of emails claiming that he was a member of
Speaker 1: the royal family and wanted to marry a member of
Speaker 1: the women's basketball team. He was also arrested on August
Speaker 1: twenty seventh by Connecticut State Police while walking along a
Speaker 1: highway near Bradley International Airport in Connecticut. He told police
Speaker 1: he was on his way to Seebeckers. Prior to that arrest,
Speaker 1: Parmeally posted to social media that he was going to
Speaker 1: propose to Becker's and get her expelled. Parmey has been
Speaker 1: charged with breach of peace, electronic stocking, and harassment and
Speaker 1: he's being held on a one hundred thousand dollars bond.
Speaker 1: That's a whole lot to deal with while also just
Speaker 1: getting ready to get back to school in basketball. So
Speaker 1: we're sending Paige good vibes to pro hoops. In WNBA news,
Speaker 1: the league's social media account is following the Phoenix Mercury's lead,
Speaker 1: dropping cryptic posts to keep folks guessing they aren't about
Speaker 1: Diana Trossi's potential retirement, though yesterday the WNBA tweeted quote,
Speaker 1: you know what's better than fourteen teams with a smirk emoji.
Speaker 1: Now this feels like an obvious hint at expansion beyond
Speaker 1: just the Golden State Valkyries and the WNBA Toronto franchises
Speaker 1: that are coming into action starting in twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: and twenty twenty six, respectively, and all signs point to
Speaker 1: Portland and the Bethal family. That name sounds familiar. Raj
Speaker 1: Bethal is the principal co owner of the Sacramento Kings
Speaker 1: of the MNBA. Son Alex is co owner and executive
Speaker 1: director of Sacramento Basketball Holdings, which owns the Kings, and
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, the family acquired the controlling interest
Speaker 1: in the Portland Thorns of the NWSL. Alex and his
Speaker 1: sister Lisa now managed data day operations for the Thorns.
Speaker 1: Reporter Sean Heiken broke the news of the Bethal's landing
Speaker 1: a Portland expansion team a couple of weeks ago on
Speaker 1: the Rose Garden Report, and he's now reporting that an
Speaker 1: official announcement will come today. Also in more WNBA, shout
Speaker 1: out to photographer for bree Lawerki, who posted a series
Speaker 1: of photos on Instagram of the notoriously hot headed Caitlin
Speaker 1: Clark being wrangled by her teammates working at Calmer Down
Speaker 1: keep her away from officials. Pre wrote quote c C
Speaker 1: de Escalation Committee is one of my favorite things to capture.
Speaker 1: Eliah Boston responded, we work overtime, and Clark herself wrote
Speaker 1: Brah with a punch of laughing emojis, you could check
Speaker 1: out breeze work at Brie Laworki photo. As for Tuesday's
Speaker 1: WNBA games, we recorded before a few of them wrapped,
Speaker 1: so go check out the results and you can keep
Speaker 1: up with that race for the eighth and final playoff spot.
Speaker 1: In college volleyball, the top five teams are all in action. Tonight,
Speaker 1: We've got an in state showdown between number one Pit
Speaker 1: and number three Penn State. Number two Stanford squares off
Speaker 1: with number five Nebraska, and number four Louisville plays number
Speaker 1: eleven Kentucky. We already told you about a few upsets
Speaker 1: early in this season, so worth keeping your eyes peeled
Speaker 1: for potential fireworks tonight. We got to pay some bills
Speaker 1: when we come back. We'll get comfortable being uncomfortable with
Speaker 1: Kerrie Champion joining us now. She's a CNN contributor, the
Speaker 1: host of the podcast Naked with Carrie Champion and the
Speaker 1: new podcast series The Making of a Rivalry Kaitlyn Clark
Speaker 1: versus Angel Reese. She's a proud UCLA alum, the founder
Speaker 1: of the Brown Girls Dream Foundation, and she was my
Speaker 1: emotional support animal and can it's Carrie Champion.
Speaker 2: Legit, you were mine as well. Legit, I was.
Speaker 1: Going to carry like, I don't know where what am
Speaker 1: I supposed to wear? How am I supposed to act?
Speaker 1: In these places? Who are all these people? You were
Speaker 1: calming me down, giving me hype talks, which I appreciated.
Speaker 1: You deserve, you deserve. I'm excited about this new podcast.
Speaker 1: So episode two just dropped on Monday. This is a
Speaker 1: juicy topic. What made you want to explore it in
Speaker 1: a podcast series?
Speaker 2: The same things I think most journalists have felt, especially
Speaker 2: if you're a woman. You felt like you could not
Speaker 2: have this conversation about either one of these ladies, Angel
Speaker 2: Reese or Caitlin Clark without feeling marginalized pro Caitlin anti Caitlin,
Speaker 2: pro Angel anti Angel. And I felt, is it if
Speaker 2: there were so much sensitivity around women and how women compete?
Speaker 2: It really bothered me because, as you know, like I know,
Speaker 2: being a woman with a strong personality, comfortable and confident
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways makes people uncomfortable. But that's
Speaker 2: just because society has said we are supposed to behave
Speaker 2: a certain way. And so when I watch these women
Speaker 2: compete against one another and I noticed how people wanted
Speaker 2: them to behave, I thought to myself, well, this is
Speaker 2: so unfair. This is not even this is not even
Speaker 2: a real conversation. We're having clutches my pearls, Like what
Speaker 2: is this this is about? And so I just wanted
Speaker 2: to explore all the intersections it meta and met at gender,
Speaker 2: and met at race and met at how women consume sports.
Speaker 2: It's political, it's cultural, it is sports, It is all
Speaker 2: of these things, and I wanted to show how sports
Speaker 2: is truly, in my opinion, a microcosm of a larger
Speaker 2: issue that we have in society.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to get into a lot of those intersections.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. At the top of the first episode, one
Speaker 1: of the things you mentioned, which I've almost forgotten as
Speaker 1: we talk about so many other things around this rivalry,
Speaker 1: which is the simple idea of like women playing sports
Speaker 1: and competing. And we've had this conversation for the entirety
Speaker 1: of my lifetime, from being a kid and like how
Speaker 1: can you be lady like and also want to win
Speaker 1: to professional sports. But it feels like with these two,
Speaker 1: because the conversation got so big and so loud, we
Speaker 1: were maybe able to finally get through to more people
Speaker 1: about the idea that if you're playing sports the goal
Speaker 1: is to win. If the goal is to win, then
Speaker 1: that comes ahead of what your hair looks like, whether
Speaker 1: you look friendly, whether you're being nice, whether you're you know,
Speaker 1: being a good sport like that simple idea. The fact
Speaker 1: that we still are having to get that through to people,
Speaker 1: I think is the baseline for this whole conversation, right, Like,
Speaker 1: if we're still there, how can we expect ourselves to
Speaker 1: get to all of the other more nuanced stuff. But
Speaker 1: that's what you're trying to get to. And you spoke
Speaker 1: to a whole bunch of people for the series. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me about some of the people you decided
Speaker 1: to call in to talk about Caitlin versus Angel.
Speaker 2: Obviously, I called in Sarah spain Day. Yeah, she is
Speaker 2: a cligger expert on this topic. But I tried to
Speaker 2: really honestly, I wanted to talk to people outside of
Speaker 2: and I gotta be really honest with you, outside of
Speaker 2: talking to Caitlyn and Angel. I knew they would give
Speaker 2: me the correct response, and I wanted someone to talk
Speaker 2: to me about what they really felt. And so I
Speaker 2: went to a lot of friends and colleagues, and I
Speaker 2: also went to what I call a culture expert, this
Speaker 2: guy by the name of keV on stage. He's a comedian,
Speaker 2: but he really truly is a die hard fan of
Speaker 2: women's basketball because he has a women in his household.
Speaker 2: He's married to a woman, a black woman more specifically,
Speaker 2: and he, to me is one of these voices that really, really,
Speaker 2: really is a part of the conversation on Twitter or
Speaker 2: x or whatever you'd like to call it whenever they're
Speaker 2: having these battles. And I remember him tweeting and talking
Speaker 2: about things during this during the initial rivalry, if you will,
Speaker 2: when Caitlyn and Angel were in college, and he said
Speaker 2: some really smart things and he was very honest. So
Speaker 2: I wanted to find people who would be very honest
Speaker 2: I would want. I wanted to find people in the
Speaker 2: media and see their perspective and how they thought they
Speaker 2: were covering the story or how they viewed the story.
Speaker 2: And then, last but not least, I wanted to hear
Speaker 2: from And we've been able to catch up with Angel
Speaker 2: when she was playing before she got injured. We talked
Speaker 2: to her, and of course she said the right things.
Speaker 2: I understand that, But I really wanted to talk to
Speaker 2: people from various backgrounds black, white, male, female, and I
Speaker 2: wanted to see their perspective and just as I assumes,
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna be honest except for Sarah and Ryan,
Speaker 2: and that's Ryan Ruco because he caught the big game,
Speaker 2: the big lsu Iowa game, and yourself. I think everyone
Speaker 2: has really told this story through their filter. If you're black,
Speaker 2: you're gonna tell it to a black filter. If you're white,
Speaker 2: normally you'll tell it to it through a white filter.
Speaker 2: And it's really interesting how we see things very differently
Speaker 2: based on how we are raised and how we've been
Speaker 2: approached in society.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said the right things that. Well, did you
Speaker 1: talk to Caitlin or did you end up only getting
Speaker 1: a chance to talk to Angel?
Speaker 2: I only talk to Angel. Caitlin is still we're still
Speaker 2: hoping that we can get her. We still have four
Speaker 2: more episodes and we're pressing it. And I ask you
Speaker 2: is out today? The ask is out of the knocking
Speaker 2: on the doors is out. Yeah. And we talked to
Speaker 2: we talked to We talked to some of her teammates
Speaker 2: from college, to Kate Martin, you know, those people who
Speaker 2: know her in a way in which I thought was interesting.
Speaker 1: People from the college game. Yeah. I just asked that
Speaker 1: because it's interesting. You said you knew that they both
Speaker 1: Caitlyn and Angel, and specifically when talking to Angel, that
Speaker 1: it came true that they would say the right thing.
Speaker 1: So that's one of the interesting parts about this conversation
Speaker 1: is it can be difficult to dive in and say
Speaker 1: either the true thing or the thing you're thinking for
Speaker 1: fear that it isn't the right thing. So what is
Speaker 1: the right thing? And why are they saying it? And
Speaker 1: what do you think they're not saying that you'd rather hear.
Speaker 2: I think they're saying it's not a rivalry because they
Speaker 2: don't think that it should be perceived as a rivalry,
Speaker 2: because that sounds negative, and that sounds like they don't
Speaker 2: like each other. And I and I feel that they
Speaker 2: should really look at that word and understand what it means.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that you have to play the same position.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that you guys have to go head
Speaker 2: to head every night. What it means is that you
Speaker 2: two people live on two or before you even started
Speaker 2: to play one another, you've lived on two different spectrums
Speaker 2: of the universe. You've come together, and the story of
Speaker 2: you two playing in college now in the WNBA has
Speaker 2: become a story of interest, and people have put verses
Speaker 2: in between you all, whether it be the media, whether
Speaker 2: it be you all yourselves. But I know that you
Speaker 2: understand how important your role is to the women's game,
Speaker 2: and I know you both understand that people are watching
Speaker 2: what you do every single night when you play, and
Speaker 2: I know you both understand there are people in camps
Speaker 2: rooting against and four and so it's not necessarily a
Speaker 2: bad thing. We need that inertia. We need that tension,
Speaker 2: as we've talked about in this podcast series, to give
Speaker 2: us a great storyline. And I hate to say it,
Speaker 2: but that's what we have with these two young ladies.
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, we're not rivals. I'd be hard
Speaker 2: pressed to believe that they aren't paying attention to what
Speaker 2: they both are doing. I know Angel is looking at
Speaker 2: Caitlin's stats, and I know Caitlyn is looking at angel
Speaker 2: stats because you wouldn't be a competitor. You are taking
Speaker 2: away the idea of who you are at your core
Speaker 2: by saying you're not interested in what the other person
Speaker 2: is doing and you don't care about that. Yes you do,
Speaker 2: you do. It's just who you are. And if you
Speaker 2: don't want to say it, that's fine, but I'll say
Speaker 2: it for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's both the way that this quote unquote
Speaker 1: rivalry or I guess I shouldnt say quote unquote it's
Speaker 1: a rivalry. We've put the verses between them. We're going
Speaker 1: to hold them up there inextricably linked, whether they agree
Speaker 1: to it or not, whether they want to. The way
Speaker 1: this yeah, I think the way this rivalry has been
Speaker 1: covered and what it has unlocked for so many different
Speaker 1: fan bases and groups, including some truly unhinged behavior that
Speaker 1: is racist, that is misogynist, that is homophobic, that is sexist,
Speaker 1: all the things. I think that that makes it easy
Speaker 1: to want to shy away from it because with it
Speaker 1: comes so much bad stuff. Sure, and in women's sports especially,
Speaker 1: there is a lot less of people flat out saying
Speaker 1: we don't like them. That's our rival, whether it's a
Speaker 1: team or a player. We see it all the time
Speaker 1: in men's sports, and I think that comes back to
Speaker 1: what we started with off the top of the show,
Speaker 1: this expectation for women and the idea that you would
Speaker 1: blatantly say out loud, I want to win, I want
Speaker 1: to beat them, I don't like them, and that's okay.
Speaker 1: Is a step too far for some people in society, right,
Speaker 1: which is so frustrating.
Speaker 2: And even the more frustrating part about it is the
Speaker 2: women can't say that because they don't want the men
Speaker 2: who've never watched the game to say they're jealous. They
Speaker 2: don't want the men who could care less about the
Speaker 2: game to call them caddy, and in fact, it's okay
Speaker 2: to say all of these things because we're not holding
Speaker 2: Draymond Green accountable for certain things that he said and done.
Speaker 2: We're not holding you know, Lebron James accountable for being
Speaker 2: competitive towards other people like Kobe didn't like anybody, and
Speaker 2: it was okay. And I don't understand we.
Speaker 1: Turned that into the Mamba mentality. We made that a
Speaker 1: thing that everyone should aspire to. And when women, they're caddy,
Speaker 1: they're bitchy, they're jealous.
Speaker 2: And all I guess what, so are men. And let's
Speaker 2: just all of that applies to men, and then let's
Speaker 2: just embrace the fact that a competition isn't a bad
Speaker 2: thing selfish. Being selfish gets a bad rap too, And
Speaker 2: I just I really hate how we don't allow women
Speaker 2: to compete as athletes. And what I am finding throughout
Speaker 2: this entire docu series is that that is probably more
Speaker 2: of the big surprise to me than even the race
Speaker 2: element and even the darling that Caitlin has become and
Speaker 2: the villain that Angel has decided that she would embrace
Speaker 2: the fact that women don't even allow women to compete,
Speaker 2: and one of our Kevi on stage said this, He goes,
Speaker 2: women are supposed to play with dolls. You're supposed to
Speaker 2: play with dolls. The boys are supposed to rough house.
Speaker 2: He was like, that's how they've been raised. He was like,
Speaker 2: and so when we're watching these women compete like athletes,
Speaker 2: not necessarily like men, but just like athletes, it's uncomfortable
Speaker 2: for us to see that. And I thought to myself, well,
Speaker 2: we are here, it is twenty two. Where are we
Speaker 2: in the women's rights movement?
Speaker 1: Yeah, fifty plus years plast title nine, when you all
Speaker 1: grew up with women playing Everyone who's been born in
Speaker 1: the last fifty years has grown up with women having
Speaker 1: the right in the opportunity. So it's it's disturbing and
Speaker 1: sad that we're still having to explain things to people.
Speaker 1: But to your point, what's been really frustrating as this
Speaker 1: rivalry has taken shape has been the voices that have
Speaker 1: gotten the spotlight, how willing they are to say things
Speaker 1: so out of pocket, Like the ones that stood out
Speaker 1: the most to me weren't even the talking heads that
Speaker 1: I'm used to trying to get clicks and say things
Speaker 1: that are sillacious. It was a former NBA player saying
Speaker 1: that the rest of the WNBA should let Caitlin win
Speaker 1: early on when she was struggling because it'd be good
Speaker 1: for the league. And I'm like, oh my god, you
Speaker 1: have completely divorced these women from the idea of sports
Speaker 1: at all. If you believe that that's going to take place,
Speaker 1: and the disrespect for the league and for their lifetime
Speaker 1: of work that you think that that's the answer is
Speaker 1: they shouldn't try. Like, what has surprised you the most
Speaker 1: about That was the most surprising to me was athletes
Speaker 1: saying shit like that.
Speaker 2: Well, it was people who now claim that they're fans
Speaker 2: of the w NBA weighing in like a Charles Barkley
Speaker 2: saying that you know, they got this wrong. The w
Speaker 2: NBA messed this up. Y'all should be grateful to Caitlin,
Speaker 2: or we have the or we'll have other people who
Speaker 2: are watching the game and explaining what the women are
Speaker 2: doing wrong and how it's not fair and they're just
Speaker 2: jumping on her. And I was just like, listen, I
Speaker 2: find it really hard to believe that when Lebron was
Speaker 2: a rookie, you guys were going easy on him. I
Speaker 2: find it really hard to believe that you thought it
Speaker 2: was wrong for Kobe to shit talk you and in
Speaker 2: any capacity and talk about and by the way, the
Speaker 2: the the trash talk isn't even on the level of
Speaker 2: what the men do. Like, it's not they're not talking
Speaker 2: about sleeping with somebody's wife. They're not we know that happens.
Speaker 2: They're not talking about you know, someone's mom. They're like,
Speaker 2: I'm about to I'm about to score here and I'm
Speaker 2: about to take you here, and you ain't all that,
Speaker 2: and I'm okay, it's okay for me to say that,
Speaker 2: I'm surprised that I went on air with Bob. And
Speaker 2: this was earlier in the season, right after Angel Reese
Speaker 2: was thrown to the ground, and people were like, oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, who cares? And then when Caitlin Clark, you know,
Speaker 2: got that heart filed by Carter Kenedya Carter Rooone was like,
Speaker 2: what's what's going on? And I said the same exact
Speaker 2: thing Bob Costa said, but when he said it, and rightfully,
Speaker 2: he's Bob Costas, but when he said it, it was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, He's right. No one cares about the
Speaker 2: black girls, but they do care about Ande Reese. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, we've been we the women, Yeah, Caaitlyn Clark,
Speaker 2: and he's like, no one cares about Angel Reese. They
Speaker 2: only care about Kaitlyn Clark because it's it's it's it's
Speaker 2: white on black crime, not black on black crime. In
Speaker 2: shut right, I'm paraphrasing, and he went, I roll for that,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, in my mind, I'm all like, okay,
Speaker 2: what else is new? Like welcome.
Speaker 3: And welcome to life, Welcome to life and I And
Speaker 3: it was just it was disappointing to me that we
Speaker 3: can scream it from the rooftops, but it only it
Speaker 3: only counts when someone our male counterpart, is saying it.
Speaker 2: And that's the same for how we are covering the
Speaker 2: women's game. No one cares about the women who have
Speaker 2: been covering the game and who were talking about the game.
Speaker 2: But if the men start man explaining the game, it
Speaker 2: becomes so much more important and it becomes so much
Speaker 2: more valuable.
Speaker 1: Carry you remember that PSA I did more than me.
Speaker 1: And one of the first things that we noticed when
Speaker 1: it instantly went viral and millions of people were talking
Speaker 1: about it, was that the two women didn't say anything.
Speaker 1: They just sat there quietly and stoically taking it, and
Speaker 1: the men were emotional, the men that were reading these
Speaker 1: awful tweets to us, and that we're reading these things
Speaker 1: that men had sent us that were on the verge
Speaker 1: of tears. That was why people cared, because they don't
Speaker 1: really care if women tell you how bad things are.
Speaker 1: But if men get sad and emotional about it and
Speaker 1: acknowledge it, then all of a sudden, let's make sure
Speaker 1: we're talking about it, which is very much what we've
Speaker 1: seen this year. The men have decided to join. And
Speaker 1: this isn't all men. There have been some great men
Speaker 1: covering the league forever, and there are some great men
Speaker 1: who are talking about it in a way that reflects
Speaker 1: the nuance that we've all known about this league for
Speaker 1: many years. But yeah, that's been part of the problem.
Speaker 1: And part of the problem also is I think the
Speaker 1: league did not figure out in advance if they wanted
Speaker 1: to do something about this, prepare for this. They could
Speaker 1: see the ball rolling down the hill, and they didn't
Speaker 1: get in front of it. Kathy Engelbert sent a letter
Speaker 1: to WNBA players acknowledging that she missed the market or
Speaker 1: interview on CNBC. You posted on Social about that interview quote,
Speaker 1: the commissioner answered, like every employer I've worked for, avoiding
Speaker 1: or perhaps invalidating the feelings of many in the league
Speaker 1: she has been charged with governing. Tell me more.
Speaker 2: I think that every place that I have worked for,
Speaker 2: in any in any in any capacity. And I'm not
Speaker 2: just referring to most people know me from ESPN, but
Speaker 2: I've worked in many other jobs, you know, even when
Speaker 2: I was in college. And if my boss does not
Speaker 2: look like me and I and I raise an issue,
Speaker 2: i e. If my boss is white and I raise
Speaker 2: the issue about racism, or if I feel marginalized, or
Speaker 2: if I feel left out, they are uncomfortable, they ignore it.
Speaker 2: Kathy Engelbert's response on CNBC was, you know, I was
Speaker 2: told a long time ago that you should just ignore
Speaker 2: the people, if you wouldn't take advice from them, and
Speaker 2: just ignore them. I'm like, what, what, what did you
Speaker 2: just say? What the hell did you just say? And
Speaker 2: it's so disrespectful. But it's more than disrespectful, it's painful.
Speaker 2: It's painful because as a black woman, I get tired
Speaker 2: of being called a villain. I get tired of being
Speaker 2: told what I'm not. I get tired of expressing myself
Speaker 2: and feeling like I can't bring my whole self to
Speaker 2: work because I will then be perceived as too much
Speaker 2: or I am doing too much. And I've struggled with this,
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna be honest with you, Sarah. I've struggled
Speaker 2: with this because I had this problem with she Carrie Richardson.
Speaker 2: I had when Angel would would have an attitude on
Speaker 2: the court, I'd be like, why you're representing all of us?
Speaker 2: Why are you doing that? But you know what I decided,
Speaker 2: I said, this generation does not give a fly in
Speaker 2: about what other people say about them. They are bringing
Speaker 2: their full selves and they should be unapologetic about who
Speaker 2: they are and what makes them who they are. We
Speaker 2: as a society can't let one moment define who we
Speaker 2: think these people are. So what if you didn't like
Speaker 2: what Angel Rehys did to Caitlin Clark, That's not who
Speaker 2: she is. She shouldn't be a thug, she shouldn't be
Speaker 2: villainized for that one moment. Let me tell you about
Speaker 2: the one mini moments I've had that I'd be ashamed
Speaker 2: of if somebody held me to that standard. And what
Speaker 2: Kathy Engelbert did was exactly what white people do. No
Speaker 2: offense is ignore the issue. This is why in this
Speaker 2: country we cannot talk about race. This is why in
Speaker 2: this country we are often told when we bring it up,
Speaker 2: it's uncomfortable. I talked to Coach Blueter, which is Caitlin
Speaker 2: Clark's coach, and Coach Bluter was very honest and she
Speaker 2: was like, you know, I just wish and she had
Speaker 2: a hard time talking about race, and she said, I
Speaker 2: just wish she just didn't have to get too ugly.
Speaker 2: I wish people didn't have to bring race into it.
Speaker 2: And she was like, and then.
Speaker 1: They existing, Yes, that's when race comes into it. When
Speaker 1: someone exists of any race that's different than another race,
Speaker 1: that's race. Now, race is in it.
Speaker 2: Now here's the thing that is a privilege and a
Speaker 2: luxury that the marginalized do not have. And you know
Speaker 2: that as a woman, you walk into a room, you
Speaker 2: can't hide the fact that you're a woman, and you
Speaker 2: know they're going to judge you for that walk into
Speaker 2: the room as a black person you are do people
Speaker 2: immediately have ideas about who you are and where you
Speaker 2: come from. And so I was so disgusted with this
Speaker 2: response from Kathy Engelbert on this stage where the majority
Speaker 2: of your players are and or is is ism exists,
Speaker 2: whether it be the sexism issue, whether it be the
Speaker 2: racism issue, and ism exists, and you're so out of
Speaker 2: touch that you talk about while rivalry is good for
Speaker 2: the game, yes, yes, and but what about this race issue.
Speaker 2: It really made me frustrated because I'm like, here we
Speaker 2: go get another corporate response.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, it wasn't just ignoring it either. It was
Speaker 1: actually spinning it into a positive correct Like, it wasn't
Speaker 1: just I don't want to talk about races, like how
Speaker 1: great is this for our league? And it's like, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, we can have both things. We can talk
Speaker 1: about how having a foil and having a rival is great,
Speaker 1: and we do like to have a take on things.
Speaker 1: This allows us to have a take. And also, my
Speaker 1: players should not be going through these levels of character assassination, racism, homophobia,
Speaker 1: all the stuff. And she didn't do that. And to
Speaker 1: your point, that is a privilege point of view, to
Speaker 1: be able to ignore the lived experiences of people who
Speaker 1: are different than you in favor of talking about the
Speaker 1: things that you think are a positive spin. And I
Speaker 1: think that when we look at how culpable league leadership
Speaker 1: is in terms of how far the unhinged fans and
Speaker 1: even some media have been able to go around this rivalry.
Speaker 1: You know, we know that social media is awful, we
Speaker 1: know that people are going to be awful, but this
Speaker 1: feels like more than that. It feels like it got
Speaker 1: out of control and there was no one trying to
Speaker 1: reel it in right.
Speaker 2: Well, because you have someone at the helm of this
Speaker 2: of the WNBA who cannot even relate to what it
Speaker 2: feels like to be marginalized. And if she doesn't want
Speaker 2: to right or doesn't want to, and if she does
Speaker 2: know it exists, she doesn't know how to talk about it.
Speaker 2: So I talked to Kristin Meyer, which is Caitlin Clark's
Speaker 2: high school coach, and she goes, you know, I know
Speaker 2: that they've been asking Caitlin about this, and I think
Speaker 2: if I were Caitlin, I wouldn't know what to say.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to talk about race. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: know what to say. I know that I've been thinking
Speaker 2: about having someone come in and talk to my students,
Speaker 2: but this is a most white school. So here she
Speaker 2: is at this white school, and that's all she's had
Speaker 2: all of her life, and then you put her in
Speaker 2: this world and you say answer questions about race, can you?
Speaker 2: And she's like, well, what, well, what I'm uncomfortable And
Speaker 2: Ryan Rukle said this best he goes they're afraid of
Speaker 2: saying something wrong, which is why they ignore it. And
Speaker 2: this is here's the answer, guys, here's okay. Spoiler alert.
Speaker 2: If you talk about uncomfortable things, they become more comfortable.
Speaker 2: And so I understand why, Yes, you don't want to
Speaker 2: talk about race, especially if you're not educated in that area,
Speaker 2: but you're going to have to do some homework. Too
Speaker 2: much is given much as required.
Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: That's a choice.
Speaker 1: That's a choice.
Speaker 2: Too much as given, much is required.
Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark will only for so long be able to
Speaker 1: fall back on. I'm focused on basketball were I'm a
Speaker 1: twenty two year old with a million things that have
Speaker 1: just been put on my shoulders, and I am not
Speaker 1: yet comfortable or capable of talking about these things in
Speaker 1: a way that isn't incredibly stressful. I remember writing Thompson's
Speaker 1: story about her. She spoke to Jeremy Shapp about whether
Speaker 1: angels should be allowed to do the you can't see me,
Speaker 1: and she said all the right things, and then after
Speaker 1: she was shaking and almost crying because she was so
Speaker 1: worried about saying the wrong thing. Understandable, and you only
Speaker 1: get to say that for so long. Now that you
Speaker 1: know that this is required of you, Now that you
Speaker 1: know you're in a league that has predominantly women of color,
Speaker 1: that has plenty of women that are queer, that has
Speaker 1: all these isms, it is now on you to choose
Speaker 1: to educate yourself in a way so that you can
Speaker 1: speak on it comfortably.
Speaker 2: You have no choice. And I know you may not
Speaker 2: want that, but let me tell you something as a body.
Speaker 1: But she should want to choose that too, again, because
Speaker 1: when you understand your own privilege, then you want to
Speaker 1: be able to speak to that stuff in a way
Speaker 1: that makes everybody around you feel like you care about
Speaker 1: what they're going through.
Speaker 2: You are a rare breed. And this is why I
Speaker 2: say to you, it's so funny. You don't even know
Speaker 2: this conversation. I was talking to Kelly Carter and I
Speaker 2: was like, she's a true ally, whether she wants to
Speaker 2: be or not. And I think that's genuinely who she is,
Speaker 2: and she just believes in what is right and what
Speaker 2: is wrong. And she has a very strong point of view.
Speaker 2: And you're very intelligent people who say it took you
Speaker 2: a while to find your voice. It took me a
Speaker 2: while to find my voice. It's going to take her
Speaker 2: a minute to find her voice. Then she will want.
Speaker 2: Same with Lebron. They were coming to Lebron and asking
Speaker 2: him what he thought about Trayvon Martin. He really didn't
Speaker 2: have an answer, and he said, guess what, I should
Speaker 2: figure this out. So I'm going to give her the
Speaker 2: grace to figure it out. I'm going to give her
Speaker 2: some time because I never figured it out. It took
Speaker 2: a while for him to figure it out.
Speaker 1: And some say Michael Jordan still hasn't that Listen, I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with Michael Jordan.
Speaker 2: And he will say great things that any more talks
Speaker 2: about because he's not comfortable.
Speaker 1: Right. There's a lot of publicity that doesn't get given
Speaker 1: to the things that he does. That's good, but he
Speaker 1: doesn't feel comfortable talking about stuff, and he doesn't and
Speaker 1: he's in his sixties, so maybe she won't figure it out.
Speaker 1: I am like you, though, I am giving her the
Speaker 1: grace to get some time, she figure out how she
Speaker 1: wants to respond it, to feel comfortable responding on us.
Speaker 1: But what happens is when you have leadership that doesn't
Speaker 1: get out in front of it and isn't intentional in
Speaker 1: the way that these things happen and unfurl over the
Speaker 1: course of a season, you get what's happening right now.
Speaker 1: And I think Kathy is very much feeling the effects
Speaker 1: of not having figured that out earlier.
Speaker 2: And by the way, how long have you been in
Speaker 2: charge of the league. By the way, how long have
Speaker 2: you been governing women? And that's when you talk and
Speaker 2: you've had I know, you know many WNBA players, like
Speaker 2: I do, they're not a fan of Kathy Engelbert, And
Speaker 2: all this did was solidify how they felt about her
Speaker 2: and how they felt about the w And they need
Speaker 2: to figure this out quick.
Speaker 1: And I am so sick of women being in the
Speaker 1: uncomfortable position of saying, okay, but this is good for business,
Speaker 1: or this person knows how to make us money and
Speaker 1: not being able to find the people that can do both,
Speaker 1: or maybe not looking fair. But I don't know that
Speaker 1: that's always the case. I like, listen, in my experience
Speaker 1: with the NWSL. It was incredibly frustrating to find that
Speaker 1: all the people with the money were the ones that
Speaker 1: did not know what they were doing when it came
Speaker 1: to ensuring player safety and experience and joy. And then
Speaker 1: you're looking around for people who do get that, and
Speaker 1: sometimes the reason that they have that empathy and understanding
Speaker 1: is because they're not billionaires. Because guess what, some people
Speaker 1: who want to be billionaires are not the same people
Speaker 1: who want to lead others and be empathetic and understand.
Speaker 1: And I'm getting on a tangent here, but I do
Speaker 1: think what I'm discovering as I get older, in particular,
Speaker 1: is very often the people in charge and who want
Speaker 1: to be in charge are not always the same people
Speaker 1: that want that interaction with the players that understand them.
Speaker 1: Those people take other positions the top top top are
Speaker 1: about business, they're about finance, they're about catsline, they're about
Speaker 1: and listen. I want that person to also be able
Speaker 1: to understand and lead right away. That's good for the players.
Speaker 1: And it feels like in women's sports particularly, that's where
Speaker 1: there's so much conflict.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't do it. I'm okay with I'm okay
Speaker 2: with this. I'm okay with you being in charges of
Speaker 2: money and making and making the money. But I also
Speaker 2: am not okay with when you are aware that there's
Speaker 2: a problem, you don't fix it, you don't bring someone
Speaker 2: in because that's also good business. That's also good business.
Speaker 1: At least Yeah, know that that's not your wheelhouse and
Speaker 1: have people in place correct, educate yourself to speak on
Speaker 1: it in those instances like that show, and then behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, have people that you know are on top
Speaker 1: of that so that you can be doing the business.
Speaker 1: This interesting is something we've talked about. Like we both
Speaker 1: worked at ESPN. President was really anyway.
Speaker 2: I was trying not to go there. I had so
Speaker 2: many That's so true.
Speaker 1: The previous president was really into content and very much
Speaker 1: involved himself in content and talent issues. The current president
Speaker 1: is really into business and has other people handle content
Speaker 1: and talent. They both work in different ways, but you
Speaker 1: have to know that about yourself. And I guess we're
Speaker 1: going to all start doing a little more digging to
Speaker 1: understand where the very highest levels of the WNBA in
Speaker 1: that office, in addition to Kathy, have enough of the
Speaker 1: people that understand what the players are dealing with and
Speaker 1: are having intentional collaborative plans moving forward, to deal with massage, shore,
Speaker 1: to deal with homophontes, to deal with all of it,
Speaker 1: to deal with all of it. Do you think that's
Speaker 1: going to happen, because to me, it feels like this
Speaker 1: is the league that we've seen collective player energy. So
Speaker 1: will it just end up being the players doing that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I don't think the women. First of all,
Speaker 2: women by nature are usually natural leaders. We've always seen
Speaker 2: how the women in the WNBA, especially because they are
Speaker 2: a group of marginalized women, have led at the forefront.
Speaker 2: I don't think Kathy has it in her to do that.
Speaker 2: I hate to say that, I just feel like she's
Speaker 2: off the mark. I think this letter she wrote to
Speaker 2: play and individually meeting with players sounds like she's just
Speaker 2: trying to put a ball on it and look good.
Speaker 2: I don't think she really cares. I think she's there
Speaker 2: to make money. I think that when they're looking for
Speaker 2: an empathetic leader, they'll hand the keys over to someone
Speaker 2: who has an understanding. But she is not the person
Speaker 2: to do that. And it's so painfully clear. Stevie Wonder
Speaker 2: can see it. She does not care about these players,
Speaker 2: and I know she doesn't because it feels more about
Speaker 2: what she was able to do. She wants to put
Speaker 2: her name on growing in the league. She wants to
Speaker 2: associate herself with this rivalry there. To me, doesn't feel
Speaker 2: like there's any empathy in her about what is really
Speaker 2: truly the problem. And I'm not speaking out of turn.
Speaker 2: I'm speaking for women who lead this league who tell
Speaker 2: me that in private conversations that they've had with her.
Speaker 2: I understand that that is her job to make money,
Speaker 2: but she has missed the mark on the humanity side
Speaker 2: of this, which is what these women really truly want
Speaker 2: as well. They want to be seen as individuals. They
Speaker 2: don't want to be seen as the lesbian or the black,
Speaker 2: or the this or the that. I am a human being. First,
Speaker 2: do you see my humanity? If you can't, Sarah, see
Speaker 2: me as your sister, your mother, your cousin. If you
Speaker 2: don't feel that way for me, then you can't understand
Speaker 2: my plight. And I don't think that she has that.
Speaker 2: I could be wrong. I doubt if I'm wrong, and
Speaker 2: it's okay, and it's okay, they'll find somebody else to
Speaker 2: figure it out. But we already know what once we
Speaker 2: know what it is, we can fix it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I have definitely heard some people criticize Kathy
Speaker 1: who are deeply embedded in the league. I haven't reported
Speaker 1: on to know whether or not she is someone who
Speaker 1: blatantly doesn't care about the players or simply doesn't understand
Speaker 1: how much of her role should be more about caring
Speaker 1: about and understanding the plight of her players instead of
Speaker 1: just the business side. But you're speaking from a place
Speaker 1: of having spoken to players who feel that way. I'll
Speaker 1: take your word for it. One thing I want to
Speaker 1: say before we leave, which is really fascinating to me,
Speaker 1: is thinking about the way the w and not just
Speaker 1: the black players, but a lot of the black players
Speaker 1: have come together to stand up for things that really
Speaker 1: matter and have felt so collaborative. I was listening to
Speaker 1: an episode of We Can Do Hard Things with Brittany
Speaker 1: Packnet Cunningham. She was talking about specifically Kamala Harris, and
Speaker 1: she was talking about the Black women Calls that started
Speaker 1: with her initial run for president and continued in the
Speaker 1: years since and grew to a space where they were
Speaker 1: perfectly ready when Kamala announced her presidency to keep it moving,
Speaker 1: and they inspired the white Women for Harris, called the
Speaker 1: White Dudes for Harris call, all of the other calls
Speaker 1: that have raised lots of money and have helped sort
Speaker 1: of these black women teaching others how to organize because
Speaker 1: it's been going on for so long. And one thing
Speaker 1: that Brittany said that many might find uncomfortable is that
Speaker 1: because Black women are so consistently let down, not just
Speaker 1: by black men but the rest of the world, that
Speaker 1: they know that they have to rely on each other.
Speaker 1: So there is a constant feeling of sisterhood and togetherness
Speaker 1: and we are in this and bound together to get
Speaker 1: what we need via each other, and that white women
Speaker 1: do not have the same instinct because we are closer
Speaker 1: in proximity to power to white men. There is more
Speaker 1: to be gained by us aligning with the men in
Speaker 1: our lives than other women. And so when we get
Speaker 1: in instances where we were being held back or held down,
Speaker 1: we look to the men to help us instead of
Speaker 1: to each other. And that includes isolating from and leaving
Speaker 1: out black women because they are not the source of
Speaker 1: power for us. And so white women in order to
Speaker 1: understand how black women organize and move forward in a
Speaker 1: way that's even when someone steps out of bounds and
Speaker 1: does something Brittany Packnick Cunningham said, we will publicly support her,
Speaker 1: and we will privately say hey, we're not doing this. Yep,
Speaker 1: call them in and say here's how we're dealing with this.
Speaker 1: We're publicly still going to support you, though, And that
Speaker 1: kind of connection does not exist. And there are a
Speaker 1: million reasons, religion, patriarchy, centuries of bullshit, etc. But in
Speaker 1: order for this league and the women leading it, as
Speaker 1: well as playing in it and the fans to move
Speaker 1: forward is to understand and learn from the way that
Speaker 1: black women collaborate. And we've seen that in this league.
Speaker 1: And I'm fascinated by this conversation that they had.
Speaker 2: I love you for bringing Brittany into it. You know,
Speaker 2: she's one of my closest friends. She's in our here.
Speaker 1: I want to meet her. She's in our group.
Speaker 2: Chat called Machete. So I'm going to tell you what
Speaker 2: she said. We have this group chat cap right, So
Speaker 2: it's it's Sunny Sonny Hoysten from the view, it's Brittany,
Speaker 2: it's me, it's Angela, It's it's Joey Read. It's a
Speaker 2: bunch of just amazing Angela Rie just a bunch of
Speaker 2: amazing women and everything she said is true. The group
Speaker 2: chat was formed because during the pandemic, we were feeling
Speaker 2: very marginalized and left out and not supported, and that's
Speaker 2: what it was about. It was about bringing everyone together
Speaker 2: and in our own different disciplines, different fields that we
Speaker 2: worked in making sure that we all felt supported. And
Speaker 2: we also had other people in the background moving chips
Speaker 2: for us to make sure that our voices were heard.
Speaker 2: The the the and I don't and I'm not saying
Speaker 2: this in a braggadocious way, I almost feel like it's
Speaker 2: it's it's become a burden. Black women are the moral
Speaker 2: conscience of society. We always are worried about everybody else
Speaker 2: but ourselves. We've raised their kids, We've raised we we
Speaker 2: take care of their families, We take care of our families.
Speaker 2: We always say, well, that's not right, and we do
Speaker 2: publicly support and we privately we privately disciplined. I feel
Speaker 2: like that has helped us, but it's also heard as
Speaker 2: in so many ways because if we aren't more honest
Speaker 2: about what we feel, these women aren't doing. Ie, white women,
Speaker 2: do you remember that share the mic where Glenny Doyle
Speaker 2: was apart. Yeah, and we and we took over the
Speaker 2: white women's platforms that had the larger platforms.
Speaker 1: Remember I had two black women take over my ESPN
Speaker 1: show that.
Speaker 2: Night, remember, and you know, and you saw the response
Speaker 2: and some of it good, some of it bad. But
Speaker 2: it was just a perfect example of what doesn't exist
Speaker 2: outside of our community and our culture and in order.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that there needs to be a
Speaker 2: black woman running the WNBA, but what I am saying
Speaker 2: it needs to be somebody who really truly believes in
Speaker 2: sisterhood and she's benefited from it. If you haven't benefited
Speaker 2: from sisterhood and men have only helped you all your
Speaker 2: life and in your career and personally and professionally, you
Speaker 2: can't relate. You just can't. You don't even know, you
Speaker 2: don't even know what sisterhood looks like. And also, I'll
Speaker 2: say this, and you tell me if I'm wrong. We
Speaker 2: were just raised differently. I was raised to take care
Speaker 2: of women. I was raised to believe in women. I
Speaker 2: couldn't talk smack to my mother. If I have no
Speaker 2: respect for my mom, I'm gonna have any respect for
Speaker 2: the girl next door. I wish I would say something
Speaker 2: slick to my mom. She'd look at me like I
Speaker 2: was crazy. Even to this day, Like, even to this day,
Speaker 2: I'm still afraid of saying something wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm not big on generalizations. I'll give you that. There's
Speaker 1: probably a lot of instances in both directions, But yes,
Speaker 1: I see your point. Therefore, shore I agree.
Speaker 2: But I do know, for I do know for a
Speaker 2: fact you don't. I'm not saying you. I'm saying it's
Speaker 2: hard to grow up and say I don't deal with
Speaker 2: this because I've never seen it. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I just mean like I would never talk
Speaker 1: shit to my mom.
Speaker 4: But yes, I agree with you, which is why we
Speaker 4: were like she's one of us. Like and I hate
Speaker 4: to even say that, like I know you don't want
Speaker 4: to and you can say, alth I'm telling you what
Speaker 4: what a conversation would be behind closed doors, And Brittany
Speaker 4: would love you, by the way, But the reality.
Speaker 2: Is we need to make a day happen. But the
Speaker 2: reality is is that we're talking about it, and we
Speaker 2: have the mic, and we can say and and no
Speaker 2: one's always right, no one's always wrong. But what I
Speaker 2: hope is is that at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: we let these women play sports like they are allowed
Speaker 2: to play and not in not put any titles and
Speaker 2: define them and put boxes around them. And I'm giving
Speaker 2: Caitlin as much grace as she needs to figure it out.
Speaker 2: I really truly I agree.
Speaker 1: And I think where we wrap here, which is great,
Speaker 1: is not only that they get to play in the
Speaker 1: way that they want and they get to be what
Speaker 1: they want, but that are conversations not only allow that,
Speaker 1: but because of this moment that we're in, we move
Speaker 1: forward as a result of this awkward and difficult time,
Speaker 1: right that instead of just having these conversations and then
Speaker 1: moving on and forgetting everything that we allegedly learned from them,
Speaker 1: that we move forward and have better understand the next
Speaker 1: time issues of misogynore and homophobia and everything else come
Speaker 1: up in the lead, that we don't just redo this
Speaker 1: all over again. That's what we need to do, is
Speaker 1: learn when we have these opportunities, these awkward and difficult
Speaker 1: conversations that come up as a result of organic things
Speaker 1: like this rivalry, take what we learn and then move
Speaker 1: forward and make the sion based on them.
Speaker 2: We did resolve that, we did, We did put this
Speaker 2: out there and solved. We just did it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you Carrie. I always to have it
Speaker 1: to you. I'm excited to listen to more of the
Speaker 1: podcast and good luck with it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Brand, you too, good luck with yours. This exciting.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Kerry for dropping by. We'll keep listening to
Speaker 1: the pod. We got to take another break. When we return,
Speaker 1: we make sure you Slices fulfill your civic duty. Welcome back,
Speaker 1: Orange Slices. You know this already, but yesterday was National
Speaker 1: Voter Registration Day. Athletes, celebs, brands of all kinds, from
Speaker 1: Billie Eilish to US Soccer to Ben and Jerry's got
Speaker 1: out the message with all sorts of videos and social posts,
Speaker 1: including the WNBA joining Rock the Vote to mobilized voters.
Speaker 1: You can check it out at Rockthvote dot org slash
Speaker 1: teamw We'll link to it in our show notes. Remember
Speaker 1: we're less than fifty days out from election day, and
Speaker 1: in a lot of states you have to be registered
Speaker 1: by October sixth in order to vote on November fifth,
Speaker 1: So even if you think you're registered, be sure to
Speaker 1: double or triple check. Lots of states periodically purge their
Speaker 1: voter rules, which is a topic for another time. So
Speaker 1: even if you voted in a previous election, make sure
Speaker 1: you're registered for this one, especially if you moved or
Speaker 1: went to college. Just don't nod your head while listening
Speaker 1: to this. Get out your phone and hop on your
Speaker 1: computer and do it. It takes thirty seconds. Speaking of voting,
Speaker 1: with the regular season in the WNBA almost wrapped, ESPN's
Speaker 1: trio of award voters have publicly announced their picks. Kevin Pelton,
Speaker 1: Alexa Philippo, and Michael Voppel were aligned for four of
Speaker 1: the six major WNBA awards, unanimously selecting Asia Wilson for MVP,
Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark for Rookie of the Year, Cheryl Reeve for
Speaker 1: Coach of the Year, and the FISA Collier for Defensive
Speaker 1: Player of the Year. The total voting panel of sixty
Speaker 1: eight media members at national outlets and within the twelve
Speaker 1: WNBA markets will turn in their ballots by noon Eastern
Speaker 1: on Friday, and the award winners will be announced throughout
Speaker 1: the postseason. But you can turn in your ballot now. Yep,
Speaker 1: it's time for fight me. I said what I said,
Speaker 1: so you know what?
Speaker 2: Fight me?
Speaker 1: Yep, fight me, which means our resident w expert miche
Speaker 1: has to weigh in, and so do I. I'll go first.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep it pretty simple, pretty quick. I actually
Speaker 1: agree with the aforementioned ESPN writers on the first couple.
Speaker 1: So Asia Wilson MVP, Caitlin Clark Rookie of the Year,
Speaker 1: Nafisa Collier. I'm gonna give the edge shoot for Defensive
Speaker 1: Player of the Year, but I think it almost might
Speaker 1: be like one of those kind of nice things, like,
Speaker 1: obviously Asia's the MVP, but Nafisa had a great season,
Speaker 1: so give her a little bit of a nudge there,
Speaker 1: and she and Asia go back and forth on those
Speaker 1: defensive statistics. There's certain ones where Asia's leading, there's certain
Speaker 1: ones where in Afiicia's leading, and I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna want to give her something for the seasons
Speaker 1: she's had, so I'm doing that. And then I agree
Speaker 1: with Cheryl Reeves as the Coach of the Year. There's
Speaker 1: a couple that are definitely in the running there, but
Speaker 1: the links have been incredibly impressive, especially after the Olympic break.
Speaker 1: The other two awards they're like not unanimous on and
Speaker 1: I can totally see why there's an argument for a
Speaker 1: bunch of them. But my sixth person of the Year,
Speaker 1: I gotta go with Leoni Foevich to the New York Liberty.
Speaker 1: She's a rookie out of Germany, and the Liberty have
Speaker 1: just had such a dominant season. I know that we've
Speaker 1: talked about the Links kind of taking the power of late,
Speaker 1: but they've been pretty powerful all season long, start to finish,
Speaker 1: and she ended up starting fifteen games when a bunch
Speaker 1: of players were in and out of the lineup for injury.
Speaker 1: And this was a team that also, you know, had
Speaker 1: people at the Olympics. Foebish herself played in the Olympics
Speaker 1: for Germany. So I don't know I'm given the nod
Speaker 1: to her, but the argument is there for certainly the others,
Speaker 1: and then same with most improved I could see a
Speaker 1: handful of players. This is not a Homer pick. It
Speaker 1: might just be that I know more about her. But
Speaker 1: Kennedy Carter, for all she's had in her past, like
Speaker 1: literally playing only eleven games because of issues with teammates
Speaker 1: and you know, being sidelined because of behavior, it's not
Speaker 1: just that her play has been so impressive for a
Speaker 1: team that really needed it in the sky, but also
Speaker 1: just being able to stay on the court, being able
Speaker 1: to find focus under a new head coach. Obviously, Tea
Speaker 1: Spoon has a way of keeping her in the game,
Speaker 1: and when she's been hot, Kennedy Carter has been hot.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go ahead and give her most proved
Speaker 1: You've given me much here, Sarah Spain. I'll breethe through
Speaker 1: my first two quickly. Asia's MVP, Kaitlin Clark's Rookie of
Speaker 1: the Year. My coach of the Year is Eric Tebow
Speaker 1: because we just.
Speaker 5: Talked about the way the Mystics have turned this ship around,
Speaker 5: and we would be remiss if we did not at
Speaker 5: least put him in that conversation. I don't have a vote,
Speaker 5: so I feel really good about it, but it's.
Speaker 1: A decent one. If they don't make the postseason, though,
Speaker 1: that'll be really impressive, it girl, Like, Yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to give the guy who came to an zero to
Speaker 1: twelve start and they missed the playoffs coach of the year.
Speaker 1: Like without contacts later on, your people will be like,
Speaker 1: what happened that year?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's true, But I'll swallow my pride on
Speaker 5: that one. For Defensive Player of the Year, I'm taking
Speaker 5: the philosophical opposite stance as you, meaning, yes, Fie, I
Speaker 5: feel like it would be insane for her to finish
Speaker 5: the season with no none of those major awards, right,
Speaker 5: But I also think it's insane to not reward greatness
Speaker 5: while we're seeing it. And I think just because Asia
Speaker 5: is having an MVP season, that doesn't mean we could
Speaker 5: ignore the fact she's leading the leading blocks, leading the
Speaker 5: league in defensive rebounds, defensive winds shares head to head
Speaker 5: against NAFISA Colliers. She's also leading that battle so and
Speaker 5: for those who don't know, that's a stat that measures
Speaker 5: how much a player contributes to their team's wins through
Speaker 5: defense avanced stats. I'm not a huge fan, but they're
Speaker 5: pointing to Agie Wilson right now.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna argue with you on that, Like I could.
Speaker 1: I completely torn. I literally just picked it because it's
Speaker 1: like I'll pick someone else for that one, even though
Speaker 1: Asia could absolutely and maybe should get it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, six Player of the Year, I got Tiffany Hayes.
Speaker 1: We just talked about Asia.
Speaker 5: She obviously shouldered a lot of that load for the Aces,
Speaker 5: but I also think they wouldn't be in this position
Speaker 5: without Tip Hayes. She is true two way player, true
Speaker 5: instant offense, the energy undeniable on the court or on
Speaker 5: the bench as a vet. And let's also remember tip
Speaker 5: Hays is coming back to the league. She was in retirement,
Speaker 5: came out of retirement just to play with the Aces
Speaker 5: this year, and so add that to the mixed bag
Speaker 5: as well. And again philosophical difference here. Foebich has started
Speaker 5: eleven more games for the Liberty than Hayes has for
Speaker 5: the Aces, And to me, that speaks kind of to
Speaker 5: the spirit of this award, Right, I'm looking at who
Speaker 5: comes off the bench to provide more and less time
Speaker 5: is kind of how I approach sixth Player of the Year.
Speaker 1: So that's me on that.
Speaker 5: And then most Improved, it's gotta be Dja because Kennedy,
Speaker 5: people who've been paying attention to her know she's been
Speaker 5: hooping like this.
Speaker 1: She has made capsule age could be hooping like this,
Speaker 1: but she wasn't because she wasn't even on the floor.
Speaker 5: It's not because of things that happened on the court though,
Speaker 5: It's not because of those where it's like hard with
Speaker 5: the semantics of must improved, what does that mean?
Speaker 1: Like you were a worse player and now you're better,
Speaker 1: or you weren't doing this and now you are.
Speaker 5: Exactly That is the root of the issue there, and
Speaker 5: all of these awards I think can be contested based
Speaker 5: on what you think the criteria except for except for.
Speaker 1: That, and probably Caitlin at this point too. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's I think she's got that wrapped up.
Speaker 2: But uh yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Got to give that the DJNA. So that's me. That's
Speaker 1: my picks, yo, Okay, those are ours. Send us your
Speaker 1: picks for the end of season awards. Who's your MVP,
Speaker 1: Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Coach
Speaker 1: of the Year, most Improved Player, and sixth Player of
Speaker 1: the Year. If you don't have a vote for all
Speaker 1: of them, just send what you got. Send them to
Speaker 1: me on Twitter or exit Sarah Spain Instagram at Spain
Speaker 1: two three two three, or email us at good Game
Speaker 1: at wondermedianetwork dot com. That's your good gameplay of the day.
Speaker 1: And also a reminder, we know that Thursday could be
Speaker 1: Diana Tarassi's last regular season game, so let us know
Speaker 1: what's your favorite DT memory. We really want to play
Speaker 1: some of your awesome responses on the show, So leave
Speaker 1: us a voicemail at eight seven to two two o
Speaker 1: four fifty seventy, or you can hit us up on
Speaker 1: email if that's your thing. Good game at Wondermedia network
Speaker 1: dot com. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review my pretties.
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Speaker 1: you tomorrow. Good Game, Carrie, Good Game, Jordan Chiles, You
Speaker 1: Voter Disenfranchisement. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart
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Speaker 1: our producers are Alex Azzi and Misha Jones. Our executive
Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rutterer.
Speaker 1: Our editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rutterer, Brittany Martinez and
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