WEBVTT - Getting Uncomfortable with Cari Champion 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:02.880 Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we love 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.880 us some Sid Colson, but we would never willingly be 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:09.160 passengers on her plane. It's definitely not you said, it's 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.520 us sure. On today's show, we'll be kicking it with 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.640 broadcaster Carrie Champion and unpacking what she learned while hosting 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.320 her new podcast series The Making of a Rivalry Caitlin 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:20.959 Clark Versus Angel Reese. Plus an update on the Jordan 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.079 Childs bronze medal saga, more cryptic WNBA tweets, and an 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.720 ode to a coold Weather essential. It's all coming up 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:41.199 right after this Welcome back. Here's what you need to 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:46.280 know today. On Monday, Team USA Olympic gymnast Jordan Childs 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.199 submitted an appeal to the Swiss Federal Supreme Court over 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.720 the Court of Arbitration for Sport or CAS's decision that 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.240 resulted in her being stripped of her individual bronze medal 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.480 in the floor exercise. Now to jog your memory on 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.240 this whole saga, Jordan originally finished fifth in the floor 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.240 exercise final at the Paris Olympics, but her score increased 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.320 by a tenth of a point after her coach submitted 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.120 an inquiry, asserting that the judges didn't credit her for 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.959 one of her skills. That boost ended up pushing Childs 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.840 past to Romanian gymnasts and onto the podium for bronze, 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.200 setting up that epic photo that we all remember with 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.320 her in Smoane Biles and Rebecca Andrage. So five days later, 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.560 after Romanian officials file to complete with CIS, they announced 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.760 that the inquiry on Child's behalf was submitted four seconds 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.800 past the one minute deadline. CIS called for the results 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.600 of the competition to be reversed, and the International Olympic 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.640 Committee stripped Chiles of her bronze medal. USA Gymnastics attempted 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:39.280 to appeal that CIS decision on Chiles's behalf, claiming that 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.240 the organization had video evidence showing that her coach's inquiry 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.160 was submitted in forty seven seconds, well within the deadline. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.040 CIS declined the appeal on the basis of rules that 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.000 quote do not allow for an arbitral award to be 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:55.280 reconsidered even when conclusive new evidence is presented end quote. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.960 Chiles new appeal this week claims that the CIS's decision 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.680 ignored her quote right to be heard and She cites 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:03.960 a conflict of interest by the president of the CIS 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.320 arbitration panel due to his previous work for You Guessed 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.040 at Romania. It also includes details about how CIS initially 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.400 used the wrong email addresses to try to get in 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.240 touch with representatives of USA Gymnastics and the US Olympic 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.120 and Paralympic Committee. While the appeal to the Swiss Tribunal 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.880 was submitted under Jordan's name by her attorneys, it was 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.839 done with the support of both USA Gymnastics and the USOPC. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:29.280 In a statement, USA Gymnastics said quote USAG is closely 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.960 coordinating with Jordan and her legal team and will make 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.440 supportive filings with the court in the continued pursuit of 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.200 justice for Jordan end quote. As part of her appeal, 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.800 Jordan's team submitted video footage from the documentary crew that 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.000 was taping teammates Simone Biles during the Olympics. In the footage, 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.640 Child's coach to Seal Landy, can be heard telling an 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.880 official that she wanted to submit an appeal within the 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.160 one minute deadline now because the Swiss Federal Tribunal only 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.600 hears appeals if they meet certain limited restrictions. For example, 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.880 if CIS procedures weren't followed, it was crucial for Jordan's 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.639 legal team to cite problems with the process and not 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.880 just a decision itself. As you can see, this story 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:09.160 is ongoing. We'll keep you updated. Two women's college hoops 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.400 some unsettling news. An Oregon man, Robert Cole Parmally was 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.639 charged Monday for stalking and harassing Yukon women's basketball star 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.400 page Beckers. He was arrested on Friday by Yukon police, 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:21.000 who said they were made aware of him way back 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.000 in June after he sent the school's communications department a 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.640 number of emails claiming that he was a member of 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.520 the royal family and wanted to marry a member of 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.600 the women's basketball team. He was also arrested on August 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.520 twenty seventh by Connecticut State Police while walking along a 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.800 highway near Bradley International Airport in Connecticut. He told police 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.920 he was on his way to Seebeckers. Prior to that arrest, 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.000 Parmeally posted to social media that he was going to 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.240 propose to Becker's and get her expelled. Parmey has been 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.600 charged with breach of peace, electronic stocking, and harassment and 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.080 he's being held on a one hundred thousand dollars bond. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:55.480 That's a whole lot to deal with while also just 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.640 getting ready to get back to school in basketball. So 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:02.000 we're sending Paige good vibes to pro hoops. In WNBA news, 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.240 the league's social media account is following the Phoenix Mercury's lead, 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.760 dropping cryptic posts to keep folks guessing they aren't about 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.720 Diana Trossi's potential retirement, though yesterday the WNBA tweeted quote, 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.400 you know what's better than fourteen teams with a smirk emoji. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.440 Now this feels like an obvious hint at expansion beyond 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.400 just the Golden State Valkyries and the WNBA Toronto franchises 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.479 that are coming into action starting in twenty twenty five 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.719 and twenty twenty six, respectively, and all signs point to 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.279 Portland and the Bethal family. That name sounds familiar. Raj 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.919 Bethal is the principal co owner of the Sacramento Kings 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.000 of the MNBA. Son Alex is co owner and executive 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.960 director of Sacramento Basketball Holdings, which owns the Kings, and 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.479 in twenty twenty four, the family acquired the controlling interest 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.320 in the Portland Thorns of the NWSL. Alex and his 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.159 sister Lisa now managed data day operations for the Thorns. 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.240 Reporter Sean Heiken broke the news of the Bethal's landing 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:53.400 a Portland expansion team a couple of weeks ago on 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.599 the Rose Garden Report, and he's now reporting that an 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.320 official announcement will come today. Also in more WNBA, shout 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:01.919 out to photographer for bree Lawerki, who posted a series 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.680 of photos on Instagram of the notoriously hot headed Caitlin 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.960 Clark being wrangled by her teammates working at Calmer Down 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.040 keep her away from officials. Pre wrote quote c C 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.520 de Escalation Committee is one of my favorite things to capture. 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.440 Eliah Boston responded, we work overtime, and Clark herself wrote 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.560 Brah with a punch of laughing emojis, you could check 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.919 out breeze work at Brie Laworki photo. As for Tuesday's 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.520 WNBA games, we recorded before a few of them wrapped, 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.240 so go check out the results and you can keep 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.400 up with that race for the eighth and final playoff spot. 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.119 In college volleyball, the top five teams are all in action. Tonight, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.280 We've got an in state showdown between number one Pit 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.960 and number three Penn State. Number two Stanford squares off 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.640 with number five Nebraska, and number four Louisville plays number 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:45.280 eleven Kentucky. We already told you about a few upsets 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.880 early in this season, so worth keeping your eyes peeled 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:52.559 for potential fireworks tonight. We got to pay some bills 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.479 when we come back. We'll get comfortable being uncomfortable with 0:05:55.560 --> 0:06:03.839 Kerrie Champion joining us now. She's a CNN contributor, the 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.440 host of the podcast Naked with Carrie Champion and the 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.120 new podcast series The Making of a Rivalry Kaitlyn Clark 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.480 versus Angel Reese. She's a proud UCLA alum, the founder 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.919 of the Brown Girls Dream Foundation, and she was my 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.279 emotional support animal and can it's Carrie Champion. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:24.000 Legit, you were mine as well. Legit, I was. 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:25.680 Going to carry like, I don't know where what am 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:27.160 I supposed to wear? How am I supposed to act? 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.280 In these places? Who are all these people? You were 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.800 calming me down, giving me hype talks, which I appreciated. 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.279 You deserve, you deserve. I'm excited about this new podcast. 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.040 So episode two just dropped on Monday. This is a 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.719 juicy topic. What made you want to explore it in 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:42.640 a podcast series? 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.760 The same things I think most journalists have felt, especially 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.120 if you're a woman. You felt like you could not 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.159 have this conversation about either one of these ladies, Angel 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:56.840 Reese or Caitlin Clark without feeling marginalized pro Caitlin anti Caitlin, 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.240 pro Angel anti Angel. And I felt, is it if 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.440 there were so much sensitivity around women and how women compete? 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.400 It really bothered me because, as you know, like I know, 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:09.840 being a woman with a strong personality, comfortable and confident 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.040 in a lot of ways makes people uncomfortable. But that's 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.000 just because society has said we are supposed to behave 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.240 a certain way. And so when I watch these women 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.920 compete against one another and I noticed how people wanted 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.760 them to behave, I thought to myself, well, this is 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.160 so unfair. This is not even this is not even 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.960 a real conversation. We're having clutches my pearls, Like what 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.720 is this this is about? And so I just wanted 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.320 to explore all the intersections it meta and met at gender, 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.920 and met at race and met at how women consume sports. 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:42.640 It's political, it's cultural, it is sports, It is all 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.800 of these things, and I wanted to show how sports 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.760 is truly, in my opinion, a microcosm of a larger 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:50.680 issue that we have in society. 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.120 Yeah, we're going to get into a lot of those intersections. 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.280 It's interesting. At the top of the first episode, one 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.080 of the things you mentioned, which I've almost forgotten as 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.480 we talk about so many other things around this rivalry, 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.239 which is the simple idea of like women playing sports 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.760 and competing. And we've had this conversation for the entirety 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.000 of my lifetime, from being a kid and like how 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.000 can you be lady like and also want to win 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.400 to professional sports. But it feels like with these two, 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:19.040 because the conversation got so big and so loud, we 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.880 were maybe able to finally get through to more people 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.560 about the idea that if you're playing sports the goal 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:26.760 is to win. If the goal is to win, then 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.920 that comes ahead of what your hair looks like, whether 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.520 you look friendly, whether you're being nice, whether you're you know, 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.280 being a good sport like that simple idea. The fact 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.920 that we still are having to get that through to people, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.360 I think is the baseline for this whole conversation, right, Like, 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.080 if we're still there, how can we expect ourselves to 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.440 get to all of the other more nuanced stuff. But 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:51.000 that's what you're trying to get to. And you spoke 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:52.920 to a whole bunch of people for the series. Can 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:54.600 you tell me about some of the people you decided 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:56.600 to call in to talk about Caitlin versus Angel. 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.960 Obviously, I called in Sarah spain Day. Yeah, she is 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:05.080 a cligger expert on this topic. But I tried to 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.800 really honestly, I wanted to talk to people outside of 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:10.600 and I gotta be really honest with you, outside of 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.240 talking to Caitlyn and Angel. I knew they would give 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.040 me the correct response, and I wanted someone to talk 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.720 to me about what they really felt. And so I 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.000 went to a lot of friends and colleagues, and I 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.600 also went to what I call a culture expert, this 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.280 guy by the name of keV on stage. He's a comedian, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.360 but he really truly is a die hard fan of 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.920 women's basketball because he has a women in his household. 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.400 He's married to a woman, a black woman more specifically, 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.360 and he, to me is one of these voices that really, really, 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.560 really is a part of the conversation on Twitter or 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:45.440 x or whatever you'd like to call it whenever they're 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.560 having these battles. And I remember him tweeting and talking 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.120 about things during this during the initial rivalry, if you will, 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.520 when Caitlyn and Angel were in college, and he said 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.120 some really smart things and he was very honest. So 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.360 I wanted to find people who would be very honest 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.040 I would want. I wanted to find people in the 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.720 media and see their perspective and how they thought they 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.160 were covering the story or how they viewed the story. 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.200 And then, last but not least, I wanted to hear 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.600 from And we've been able to catch up with Angel 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.880 when she was playing before she got injured. We talked 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.000 to her, and of course she said the right things. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.320 I understand that, But I really wanted to talk to 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:23.480 people from various backgrounds black, white, male, female, and I 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.120 wanted to see their perspective and just as I assumes, 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.760 and I'm gonna be honest except for Sarah and Ryan, 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:31.760 and that's Ryan Ruco because he caught the big game, 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:36.000 the big lsu Iowa game, and yourself. I think everyone 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:41.080 has really told this story through their filter. If you're black, 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.000 you're gonna tell it to a black filter. If you're white, 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:44.920 normally you'll tell it to it through a white filter. 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.800 And it's really interesting how we see things very differently 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:49.920 based on how we are raised and how we've been 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:51.560 approached in society. 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.319 Yeah, you said the right things that. Well, did you 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:56.880 talk to Caitlin or did you end up only getting 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:57.720 a chance to talk to Angel? 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.480 I only talk to Angel. Caitlin is still we're still 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:02.320 hoping that we can get her. We still have four 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.439 more episodes and we're pressing it. And I ask you 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.800 is out today? The ask is out of the knocking 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.040 on the doors is out. Yeah. And we talked to 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.360 we talked to We talked to some of her teammates 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.560 from college, to Kate Martin, you know, those people who 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.400 know her in a way in which I thought was interesting. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.680 People from the college game. Yeah. I just asked that 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.200 because it's interesting. You said you knew that they both 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.480 Caitlyn and Angel, and specifically when talking to Angel, that 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.199 it came true that they would say the right thing. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.440 So that's one of the interesting parts about this conversation 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.199 is it can be difficult to dive in and say 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.480 either the true thing or the thing you're thinking for 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.360 fear that it isn't the right thing. So what is 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.080 the right thing? And why are they saying it? And 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.160 what do you think they're not saying that you'd rather hear. 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.880 I think they're saying it's not a rivalry because they 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.920 don't think that it should be perceived as a rivalry, 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.439 because that sounds negative, and that sounds like they don't 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:59.280 like each other. And I and I feel that they 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.080 should really look at that word and understand what it means. 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.160 It doesn't mean that you have to play the same position. 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:06.960 It doesn't mean that you guys have to go head 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.240 to head every night. What it means is that you 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.360 two people live on two or before you even started 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.480 to play one another, you've lived on two different spectrums 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.440 of the universe. You've come together, and the story of 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:21.000 you two playing in college now in the WNBA has 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.439 become a story of interest, and people have put verses 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.280 in between you all, whether it be the media, whether 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.040 it be you all yourselves. But I know that you 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.120 understand how important your role is to the women's game, 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.720 and I know you both understand that people are watching 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.760 what you do every single night when you play, and 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.040 I know you both understand there are people in camps 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:44.000 rooting against and four and so it's not necessarily a 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.000 bad thing. We need that inertia. We need that tension, 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.360 as we've talked about in this podcast series, to give 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.319 us a great storyline. And I hate to say it, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.600 but that's what we have with these two young ladies. 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.720 And they're like, well, we're not rivals. I'd be hard 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.920 pressed to believe that they aren't paying attention to what 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.800 they both are doing. I know Angel is looking at 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.280 Caitlin's stats, and I know Caitlyn is looking at angel 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.080 stats because you wouldn't be a competitor. You are taking 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.600 away the idea of who you are at your core 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:13.680 by saying you're not interested in what the other person 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.600 is doing and you don't care about that. Yes you do, 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.439 you do. It's just who you are. And if you 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:20.120 don't want to say it, that's fine, but I'll say 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:21.280 it for you. Yeah. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.800 I think it's both the way that this quote unquote 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.160 rivalry or I guess I shouldnt say quote unquote it's 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.400 a rivalry. We've put the verses between them. We're going 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.720 to hold them up there inextricably linked, whether they agree 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:32.240 to it or not, whether they want to. The way 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.120 this yeah, I think the way this rivalry has been 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.160 covered and what it has unlocked for so many different 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:42.600 fan bases and groups, including some truly unhinged behavior that 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.560 is racist, that is misogynist, that is homophobic, that is sexist, 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.600 all the things. I think that that makes it easy 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.959 to want to shy away from it because with it 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:56.400 comes so much bad stuff. Sure, and in women's sports especially, 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.480 there is a lot less of people flat out saying 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.719 we don't like them. That's our rival, whether it's a 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:04.400 team or a player. We see it all the time 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.080 in men's sports, and I think that comes back to 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.200 what we started with off the top of the show, 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.840 this expectation for women and the idea that you would 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.200 blatantly say out loud, I want to win, I want 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.640 to beat them, I don't like them, and that's okay. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.160 Is a step too far for some people in society, right, 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:22.880 which is so frustrating. 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.520 And even the more frustrating part about it is the 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.800 women can't say that because they don't want the men 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.360 who've never watched the game to say they're jealous. They 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.520 don't want the men who could care less about the 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:35.200 game to call them caddy, and in fact, it's okay 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.480 to say all of these things because we're not holding 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.120 Draymond Green accountable for certain things that he said and done. 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:44.720 We're not holding you know, Lebron James accountable for being 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.040 competitive towards other people like Kobe didn't like anybody, and 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.560 it was okay. And I don't understand we. 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.000 Turned that into the Mamba mentality. We made that a 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:58.000 thing that everyone should aspire to. And when women, they're caddy, 0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:59.760 they're bitchy, they're jealous. 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.200 And all I guess what, so are men. And let's 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.400 just all of that applies to men, and then let's 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.600 just embrace the fact that a competition isn't a bad 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.840 thing selfish. Being selfish gets a bad rap too, And 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.080 I just I really hate how we don't allow women 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.560 to compete as athletes. And what I am finding throughout 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:23.160 this entire docu series is that that is probably more 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.640 of the big surprise to me than even the race 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.040 element and even the darling that Caitlin has become and 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.960 the villain that Angel has decided that she would embrace 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.160 the fact that women don't even allow women to compete, 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.000 and one of our Kevi on stage said this, He goes, 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.080 women are supposed to play with dolls. You're supposed to 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.040 play with dolls. The boys are supposed to rough house. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.480 He was like, that's how they've been raised. He was like, 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.920 and so when we're watching these women compete like athletes, 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.479 not necessarily like men, but just like athletes, it's uncomfortable 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.800 for us to see that. And I thought to myself, well, 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.040 we are here, it is twenty two. Where are we 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:02.560 in the women's rights movement? 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.920 Yeah, fifty plus years plast title nine, when you all 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.400 grew up with women playing Everyone who's been born in 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.840 the last fifty years has grown up with women having 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.000 the right in the opportunity. So it's it's disturbing and 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.720 sad that we're still having to explain things to people. 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.200 But to your point, what's been really frustrating as this 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.040 rivalry has taken shape has been the voices that have 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.960 gotten the spotlight, how willing they are to say things 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.200 so out of pocket, Like the ones that stood out 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.640 the most to me weren't even the talking heads that 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.760 I'm used to trying to get clicks and say things 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:37.000 that are sillacious. It was a former NBA player saying 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.000 that the rest of the WNBA should let Caitlin win 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.080 early on when she was struggling because it'd be good 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.240 for the league. And I'm like, oh my god, you 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.000 have completely divorced these women from the idea of sports 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.520 at all. If you believe that that's going to take place, 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.080 and the disrespect for the league and for their lifetime 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.080 of work that you think that that's the answer is 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.480 they shouldn't try. Like, what has surprised you the most 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.000 about That was the most surprising to me was athletes 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:03.200 saying shit like that. 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.520 Well, it was people who now claim that they're fans 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.560 of the w NBA weighing in like a Charles Barkley 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.520 saying that you know, they got this wrong. The w 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.120 NBA messed this up. Y'all should be grateful to Caitlin, 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.239 or we have the or we'll have other people who 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.840 are watching the game and explaining what the women are 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.320 doing wrong and how it's not fair and they're just 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.119 jumping on her. And I was just like, listen, I 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.239 find it really hard to believe that when Lebron was 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.760 a rookie, you guys were going easy on him. I 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.760 find it really hard to believe that you thought it 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.000 was wrong for Kobe to shit talk you and in 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.320 any capacity and talk about and by the way, the 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.320 the the trash talk isn't even on the level of 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.200 what the men do. Like, it's not they're not talking 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.560 about sleeping with somebody's wife. They're not we know that happens. 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.199 They're not talking about you know, someone's mom. They're like, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:52.840 I'm about to I'm about to score here and I'm 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:54.360 about to take you here, and you ain't all that, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.240 and I'm okay, it's okay for me to say that, 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:01.439 I'm surprised that I went on air with Bob. And 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.680 this was earlier in the season, right after Angel Reese 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.120 was thrown to the ground, and people were like, oh 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.960 my gosh, who cares? And then when Caitlin Clark, you know, 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.720 got that heart filed by Carter Kenedya Carter Rooone was like, 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.480 what's what's going on? And I said the same exact 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.360 thing Bob Costa said, but when he said it, and rightfully, 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.399 he's Bob Costas, but when he said it, it was like, 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.480 oh my god, He's right. No one cares about the 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.639 black girls, but they do care about Ande Reese. And 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.200 I'm like, well, we've been we the women, Yeah, Caaitlyn Clark, 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.479 and he's like, no one cares about Angel Reese. They 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.640 only care about Kaitlyn Clark because it's it's it's it's 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.000 white on black crime, not black on black crime. In 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.960 shut right, I'm paraphrasing, and he went, I roll for that, 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.520 and I'm like, in my mind, I'm all like, okay, 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.000 what else is new? Like welcome. 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.840 And welcome to life, Welcome to life and I And 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.199 it was just it was disappointing to me that we 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.119 can scream it from the rooftops, but it only it 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.560 only counts when someone our male counterpart, is saying it. 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:01.679 And that's the same for how we are covering the 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.040 women's game. No one cares about the women who have 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.480 been covering the game and who were talking about the game. 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.720 But if the men start man explaining the game, it 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.160 becomes so much more important and it becomes so much 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:12.920 more valuable. 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:15.840 Carry you remember that PSA I did more than me. 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.280 And one of the first things that we noticed when 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.560 it instantly went viral and millions of people were talking 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:23.000 about it, was that the two women didn't say anything. 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.800 They just sat there quietly and stoically taking it, and 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.560