WEBVTT - The Club Pro Crisis - Part 3: “Where do we go from here?” 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.400 The club expects their golf proth and their assistant pros 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:05.960 to make sure everything's perfect. 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:08.399 We want a club row that can play like Tiger, 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.520 teach like butch merchandise like Ralph Lauren, and tell jokes 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:13.080 like Bob Hope. 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:15.920 Right, it is absolutely The problem is the amount of 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.760 pay for the amount of work. It doesn't mesh for clubs. 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.119 If you don't make these changes, you're not going to 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.200 get the people you want. Your product is going to suffer. 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:26.000 People are not going to want to come play there, 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:28.159 They're going to go elsewhere, and you're eventually going to 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:28.880 go out of business. 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.040 Is seth while helping He's the right guy in the 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.800 driver's seat, But is there a vehicle he can drive 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:38.600 that can make it any better? 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.839 People are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like? 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.080 How can he not want to be surrounded by those people? 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:46.280 Right then? 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.480 And that's what our PGA professional is. You know, it's 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.680 not perfect, We're not perfect times far from perfect. We're 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.680 moving the needle, making a lot of progress and I 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.120 hope people are noticing it. But that's not the point either, right. 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.200 The point is leaving the room better. And I'm going 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:10.400 to keep fighting to do that every day. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:19.839 Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is given time. 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:26.720 Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Janella. 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.080 We're back for part three of this series on the 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.760 club pro crisis. In parts one and two. Through the 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.960 process of talking to current and former PGA professionals, From 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.319 talking to people like Butch Harmon and Shane Ryan, who 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.120 in May of twenty twenty two wrote a story for 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.160 Golf Dies entitled the Club pro Crisis, We've been able 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.520 to piece together the issues. It's a work life balance, 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.120 too many hours for not enough pay that's simply not 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.680 working for this next generation. There's the Internet and free 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:04.120 acts to information and instruction. There's an awareness issue in 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:09.040 that leadership at some clubs, some memberships, certain clientele of 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.240 courses across the country, and in my case, the media. 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:17.280 They we are not aware that a problem exists. It's 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.640 not common knowledge that clubs and courses are struggling to 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:24.760 find and keep good help. Not enough people know PGM 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.760 programs have been closing throughout the country, and I'm not 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.639 sure enough people know how and why. COVID exacerbated all 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.520 of the above. 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All right, we pick up part 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:46.880 three of this series where we left off in part 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:51.400 two with Shane Ryan on COVID's impact on the industry 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.880 and his thoughts on where we go from here. 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.760 It got worse and it exposed a problem that's been 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.040 existing for a long time, but it magnified it and 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.480 exposed it. And I think, you know, things like I wrote, 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.480 and I'm certainly not the only one. People are being 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.280 far more outspoken on this now. And so yeah, it's 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.440 come to the forefront of attention. And yeah, like I 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.000 said before, it gets to the question of now, what 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:15.360 do you do now, how do you fix it? 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.799 If you can fix it, and what are your thoughts 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.720 on that after all of your reporting and listening and learning. 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.320 Yeah, in terms of fixing it. You know, the really 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:25.880 interesting thing I found when I started this, I thought 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:27.440 it would be a money thing that you know, they 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.960 weren't making enough money. That's really not the case. You know, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.360 some head pros make really good money. Money for assistance 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.560 even has gone up, you know quite well in the 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.599 last five to ten years. The problem is time. The 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.760 time is the thing that's killing them. And especially for 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.040 young people, either who are still in the industry but 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.159 thinking of getting out or the ones who did get out, 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.039 they're looking at the head pros. They worked under who 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:50.880 may have had the dream job right that they said, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:52.640 this is where I want to be. And what they 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.640 see is that that head pro never sees his children, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.080 that head pro got divorced, he's an alcoholic, he's depressed, 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.160 whatever the case is. They go, even the dream jo 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.279 doesn't look good. It's kind of terrible. And so time 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.440 is the critical issue. So you need to instead of 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.560 paying your assistant twenty thousand dollars more in your head 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.680 pro twenty thousand dollars more, you need to hire another assistant, 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.240 which is more expensive. Right, But that's the thing. More 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.080 people is the only thing that reduces the collective hours 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.039 that everybody has to work. And the solution is simple 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.080 in that sense, but not simple for these clubs to 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.440 actually do because it is obviously a budgetary cost. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.960 Here's Chandler Whittington again, a voice from parts one and two, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:37.120 Withington worked at Seminal Marion and Hazelteine, which is where 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.839 he resigned from his post as head professional in twenty 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:40.280 twenty one. 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.719 There's this generational gap. And I told Seth and Pepper 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:46.760 to twenty I said, you've got to get the leaders 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.839 of CMAA, the club manders association the same room with PGA, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:52.600 and we need to understand each other better. You know, 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.880 how are things changing? Who are we, where are we now? 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.240 What are we going? And what is crucial art to 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.200 our success and what will ultimately cripple us if we 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.800 don't address it. So that article is meant to be 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:08.400 awareness first education seconds. You know, we want the we 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.160 want club pros understand like you know, Kelly Williams from 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.640 Kentucky used the Big l work. We want to have 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.359 it in there is like there's never timers right now, 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.480 you know, not just club pros but superintendents to leverage 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.719 yourself because the competition is dwindling by the day. 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.720 More from Cody Sinkler, director of golf operations at the 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.000 park in West Palm Beach, Florida. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.599 I don't know that there's one solution other than. 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:40.240 Us using our voices and making sure that we prioritize 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.520 our own work life balance and make sure that we're 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.520 working for employers who are going to do the same. 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:54.240 And and I frankly don't think we should tolerate if 0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:02.640 if we're being expected to kill ourselves to speak, we 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.120 just have to someone's got to just stop it. Say 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.720 this is Enough's enough? And I want to work a 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.440 forty hour week. I want to have two days off 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.080 A lot to ask right day is off a week. 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.200 But it's little things, so employers. So in my case, 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.920 you know, we're a startup facility. We'll be adding employees soon, 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.880 and one of the first I mean one of the 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:32.360 first things that we'll be doing is assessing any ways 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.080 we can the work life balance of anyone we bring 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.720 on to our team and adding perks. I mean, I've 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:43.840 seen job postings from high end private clubs. I counted 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:49.640 one recently that had about thirty bullet points under responsibilities 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:55.640 and qualifications and one bullet point under benefits and it 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:04.440 just said competitive pay. So we need to realize that 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.080 these people are trying to make a career. I mean, 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:09.840 let's make sure we're giving them pay. We're giving them 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.320 retirement with a match. We're giving them health benefits, We're 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.040 giving them family benefits at the club or golf course. 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:21.280 We're giving them two days off a week, two days 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.440 off a week. I mean, it's little things that can 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.920 add up to making a big change for our industry. 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.360 Young people are not going to want to come in 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.280 and work six and seven day weeks, sixty hour weeks 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.400 and make fifteen dollars an hour. They just don't want 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:40.400 to do it, and I don't blame them, by the way. 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:45.000 And here's Connor Evers, who graduated from the PGM program 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:49.840 at Methodist University in Fayetteville, North Carolina. After several successful 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.880 internships at elite clubs all over the world. His current 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.920 job is expedition planning manager for Haversham and Baker, a 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:00.440 company that describes themselves as quote the country a club 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:01.880 of international golf travel. 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.200 I would just say more more work life balance. I 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.800 have a great friend here in Cincinnati. Uh he works 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.679 at it's called Kenwood Country Club and he's he's actually 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.120 a head professional there and a part of his interview 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.040 and actually it's funny, I'm speaking to a lot of 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.920 my my my friends are also PGA professionals at interviewing 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.040 for different jobs. That's one of our questions now, And 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.239 that was never one of my questions many of my interviews, 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.160 you know, when I was you know, doing doing internship 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.000 interviews a little bit different than you know, postgraduate stuff. 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.079 But that's actually one of one of the questions now, 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.680 like what what are these clubs doing for work life balance. 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.520 You know, how many days am I expecting to be off, 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.040 you know, per week? And how much golf am I 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.080 able to play? Am I able to play with members? 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.400 It's just more of those questions that I really don't 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.679 think Matt you would ask, You would ask in an 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:56.360 interview in the golf industry even three years ago, two 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.600 or three years ago. So I think that's a great 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.880 change in the right direction. But I would say, you know, 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.360 magical line like yourself, I would say work life balance 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.040 for sure. Kind of looking back at it. 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.960 More from Robins mainly, who became a class A pro 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.080 twenty years ago. He was an assistant pro at Breckinridge 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.120 Golf Club for both decades. After getting married at the 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.240 age of forty six, he left the golf industry to 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:21.240 sell real estate. 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:25.680 I think also a thing that could be done better 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.920 is that one than all these management companies have for 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.400 the most part of taking over the shops. So there's 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.120 very few pros that own the shop. But you make 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.160 it part of the package, not what you grew up with, 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.880 but you make it where the where all the members 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.200 own the shop, all the PGA members, And yeah, there's 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.800 a higher cut for the head dog. But there's a 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.679 you know, then I'm trying hard to sell a driver 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.920 out on the range, and I'm coming in for more 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.520 club fittings because there's I'm regripping more clubs because I 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.079 have a piece of the action, and I think that's 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.320 where then the shops I think would make more money 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.960 because all the assistants are pushing harder. You know, if 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:10.880 you're just paying them an hourly wage, they're just going 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.520 to come in and do their job and leave. So 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.240 if there's a skin in the game, you always work harder. 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.640 You know, you guys are starting your own thing, and 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.840 all of you are working harder than you probably did before. 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.640 But that's because there's skin in the game. And I 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.319 think that could be the ultimate solution because then if 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.960 the pro shop grows and more sales, then it's not 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.920 coming out of the operator's expense. 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:39.120 And here's Josh Doxentter, general manager at Harbor Shores Resort 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:40.480 in Benton Harbor, Michigan. 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:41.560 Don't. 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.160 I don't think it's an easy or equip fix because 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.280 you know, we're we're members of an organization that has 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:53.560 no say into our operations and ownership, right, so we 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:58.079 work for either an ownership group of board or management companies, 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.920 but the PGA does not own in the facility, so 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.440 there's only so much that they can do. I think 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.120 being in you know, I was in the Southwest section 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.040 for eleven years. I was in the Wisconsin section four 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:10.960 and a half years. Now I'm in Michigan. Been in 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.839 this section for over three years. And what I've seen 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.960 is something in every single section is that the typical 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.319 PG member feels like there's they don't have a voice, 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:27.040 like they don't they're not being heard, and is there 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:28.559 some truth to that? 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:29.040 Maybe? 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.960 I think, you know, I have the opportunity, because of 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.880 the Senior PGA Championship, because of other things, to have 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:37.640 maybe more of an inside look. I sit on the 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.920 national board for PGA works, you know, and be able 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:41.800 to kind of see what's going on behind the scenes. 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.160 But I would also say that if you if you 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:46.560 want to be a part of change, you have to 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.280 put yourself in that mix, right If you want to 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.240 have a voice, you need to start running for your board, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.280 you need to start, you know, doing different things to 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.080 get involved in the PG of America. Do I think 0:12:56.120 --> 0:13:01.080 that Seth has done a great job as CEO so far. Absolutely, 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.160 he's really he's been the first one in a while 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.560 that's really taken to heart what the PGA members are 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.680 seeing and really trying to find ways to get around 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.480 some of the challenges that they face for decades. 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.480 We'll get to more on Seth Wall later and he 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.000 gets his own episode, but for now, it's back to 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:18.840 Cody Sinkler. 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.320 I know right now, as these numbers drop, as less 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.560 people are getting into this profession, we can be more 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.240 selective with where we work option A versus option B. 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.560 If you're going to offer me a five day work 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.320 week and you're not, I don't want to work for you. 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.840 So we need to be more selective, and employers should 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.080 just try to do every little all these little things 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.720 can add up every little thing they can to improve 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:51.200 work life balance and put it at the forefront. Be creative. 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.679 One weekend, day off a month, I mean two days 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.719 off a week. There's a lot of things floating, holidays. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:01.480 There's a lot of things we can do that can 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:05.040 add up. But the pg of America has been a 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.280 positive voice, but the onus is on the employers for sure. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.400 Here's Butch Harmon and his thoughts on where we go 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.640 from here is the pg of America helping? Is Seth 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.440 waw helping? Do you see some sense of hope and 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.960 progress going now back in the right direction direction? 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:24.360 Well, as you know, I've. 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.479 Never been a member of the PGA my whole existence, 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.080 and people ask me why, and there is no real reason. 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.000 I mean, I just I'm just kind of a little 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:32.520 bit of a rebel, I guess, and I do things 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.320 the way I want to do it. And I'm not 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.080 saying the PGA is bad because it's not. Seth why, 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.040 I think is the best guy they could have in 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.400 charge of the PGA of America right now, without a doubt. 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.560 He's a guy you and I know very well. He's 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.160 the guy that loves golf. Yes, he was a great 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.080 businessman with Deutsche Bank and stuff, but he's been involved 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.800 in golf and around golf his whole life. So he's 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.440 the right guy, is there. But just because you have 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:00.600 the right guy, how are you going to change this? 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:02.640 How are you going to take you know? They love 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.240 to say I don't know how many members they have 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.640 twenty seven thousand or are you hear it? At the 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.800 PGA for all the twenty seven twenty twenty eight thousand 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.640 PGA members. Okay, you have all these members, how are 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.000 you going to create an environment that's going to make 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.440 their life better. That's going to be hard for this 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:26.320 organization to do this. And the PGA of America should 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.080 be like a union. They should take care of all 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:36.440 their members. Remember when COVID hit oh who was it 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.040 that had all the discount stores A Dix They had 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.400 all these discounts, so that had all these young PGA 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.960 pros working there as teachers. They fired them all the 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:47.920 government of all of them. So all these young people 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.680 that were involved and teaching in the Dick's stores, in 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.200 their teaching base and stuff, who were supposedly working to 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:56.920 be a PGA member, and a lot of them were 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:01.200 PGA members, were gone. And do anything about that. They 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.120 didn't go to Dick's and try and fight for them 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.760 and say hey, no, you need to be here. So this, 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.760 this company, the PGA of America, needs to take care 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.120 of it it's people better. And I think Seth is 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.040 a guy who can do that. But how do you 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.240 do it? I mean, it's gone, it's gone downhill for 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.120 so long. And please, for all of your PGA pros 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.880 out there at head professionals. I'm not knocking you. We're 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.600 just talking about what the system has become, not you 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.080 as an individual. I know you guys are great golf pros. 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.520 You do the best you can with your job, but 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.520 you're caught in an industry now that doesn't seem to 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.600 really care about you. 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.320 Back to Chandler Withington, why would or wouldn't there be 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.720 a unionization of of PGA club pros. 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.280 It's becoming a reality. I mean, let's look at Amazon 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.400 and Starbucks. You know, it comes a point where employees 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.040 are like, we actually, you know, we're in a position 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.120 to make the terms now, and that's what we're trying 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.400 to kill you willms using that leverage where tell the 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.160 pros like, you're actually at a point where you actually 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.879 now have the leverage use it, you know, And you know, 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:09.160 I don't think it's like you need to take people 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.639 to the shed on it, but it's just creating realistic 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.880 and accomplishable expectations across the board that like Visa the standards, 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.760 we're not going to work more than fifty five a week. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.040 You know. After then it's the law of diminishing return, right, 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.000 so you don't need to ask for everything you can't 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.199 get everything, but what's really most important, and what we 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.920 just kind of learned from that was it's not more money, 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.920 it's just more time away, you know, having a sustainable life. 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:33.359 That's all. 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.560 Yeah, seems fair. 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.199 You'll like to think, right like, I'm sad that I 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.040 had to leave to find it, but I was at 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.360 peace immediately, even though we didn't know where we where 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:45.800 we were. 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:46.000 Going to go. 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.440 It was a My wife saw it, you know, when 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.440 I kind of was like, that's it, we're moving on. 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.720 It happened quickly. She's like, you're totally a peace with this, 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.000 I said, I am. When I start thinking about all 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:57.359 that I'm not going to deal with. I'm going to 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.520 miss a lot of it. But the stuff I'm not 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.919 going to miss, you know, I know it's going to be. 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:03.400 It's going to get weird here for us. We don't 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.480 know where we're going. We're gonna move whatever in kids, 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:07.720 and but you're going to see a lot more of me, 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:08.520 and that's what we've gotten. 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.600 Shane Ryan on the possibility of unionizing. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.960 It would take an incredible act of collectivization, right. It 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.200 would take a collective labor act that would be very 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.359 difficult to get all these people, like you said, in 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.360 these siloed disparate clubs to do it would certainly help them. 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.560 And you know, this is far from the only industry 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.600 where you can say this, but you and I talking, 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.520 it's hard not to leap to just what you said. Boy, 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.080 how useful would a labor union be if they could strike, right? 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.439 I mean, if they could do these things even, you know, 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:41.080 if they could you know, talk to each other and 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.880 say like, okay, you know, this is what we all make, 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:45.960 here's the standard. How do we fight for it? And 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.439 you shouldn't accept thirty thousand dollars even if you're you know, 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.520 in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania or something like that. 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.199 There's all these things that would be good to do. 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.680 The question of can they do it? It would take 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.560 a separate organization, I think from the PJA of America. 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.040 I don't think that would be the unionizing force. It 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.720 would take them organizing it themselves, and it would take 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:09.560 incredible buy in. And that's you love to dream of it, 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.760 but it's I guess I'm probably a little cynical about 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:14.199 whether that can or will happen. 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.280 Why would you say you're cynical? You know, hearing from 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.359 so many or what where does that come from? 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:26.080 The cynicism would be that to have a union, you're 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.159 going to have to have people pay union dues, right, 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:29.560 So you're going to have to ask for money from 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.520 the club pros and you're going to have to get 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.879 a buy in of over fifty percent. 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:34.280 Right. 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.200 And again we're looking at there's nothing joining any of 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:41.120 these organizations together except they're all golf clubs. Right. There's 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:45.560 no fundamental commonality other than that, and so that's hard 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.159 to get people to do that even in you know, 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.280 you can look at any other like the auto industry 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.320 in the US, right, There's it's tough for unions to 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.560 thrive even in that because it's very easy for people 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.879 to sort of propagandize against unions by saying, what are 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:01.200 they going to do for you? You know, just deal 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.120 with management. We're friendly. And let's face it, if you're 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.560 an assistant pro at some club where you like to 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.280 be and you don't want to move, and the idea 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:11.439 is you're going to join a union and antagonize for 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.000 higher wages, well, the union you're going to join is 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.680 going to be full of people that aren't from where 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.040 you're from right, it's going to be this network that 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.080 you have, but the people you're dealing with every day 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.399 are your bosses that you literally see every time you 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.920 go into work, and so that's it's a tough situation. 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.359 I mean, it's it's the problem with unions everywhere, so 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.560 getting that on a large scale together when there's no 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.119 framework for it yet, right, It's not like there's an 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.440 old club, you know, club pros union that just needs 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.280 to be reactivated. There's literally nothing, and so I think 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.000