1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: The club expects their golf proth and their assistant pros 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: to make sure everything's perfect. 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 2: We want a club row that can play like Tiger, 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: teach like butch merchandise like Ralph Lauren, and tell jokes 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: like Bob Hope. 6 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 3: Right, it is absolutely The problem is the amount of 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 3: pay for the amount of work. It doesn't mesh for clubs. 8 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 4: If you don't make these changes, you're not going to 9 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 4: get the people you want. Your product is going to suffer. 10 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 4: People are not going to want to come play there, 11 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,159 Speaker 4: They're going to go elsewhere, and you're eventually going to 12 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 4: go out of business. 13 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: Is seth while helping He's the right guy in the 14 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: driver's seat, But is there a vehicle he can drive 15 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: that can make it any better? 16 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 5: People are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like? 17 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 5: How can he not want to be surrounded by those people? 18 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: Right then? 19 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 5: And that's what our PGA professional is. You know, it's 20 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 5: not perfect, We're not perfect times far from perfect. We're 21 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 5: moving the needle, making a lot of progress and I 22 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 5: hope people are noticing it. But that's not the point either, right. 23 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 5: The point is leaving the room better. And I'm going 24 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 5: to keep fighting to do that every day. 25 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 6: Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is given time. 26 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 4: Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Janella. 27 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 7: We're back for part three of this series on the 28 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 7: club pro crisis. In parts one and two. Through the 29 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 7: process of talking to current and former PGA professionals, From 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 7: talking to people like Butch Harmon and Shane Ryan, who 31 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 7: in May of twenty twenty two wrote a story for 32 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 7: Golf Dies entitled the Club pro Crisis, We've been able 33 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 7: to piece together the issues. It's a work life balance, 34 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 7: too many hours for not enough pay that's simply not 35 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 7: working for this next generation. There's the Internet and free 36 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 7: acts to information and instruction. There's an awareness issue in 37 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 7: that leadership at some clubs, some memberships, certain clientele of 38 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 7: courses across the country, and in my case, the media. 39 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 7: They we are not aware that a problem exists. It's 40 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 7: not common knowledge that clubs and courses are struggling to 41 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 7: find and keep good help. Not enough people know PGM 42 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 7: programs have been closing throughout the country, and I'm not 43 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 7: sure enough people know how and why. COVID exacerbated all 44 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 7: of the above. 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All right, we pick up part 64 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 7: three of this series where we left off in part 65 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 7: two with Shane Ryan on COVID's impact on the industry 66 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 7: and his thoughts on where we go from here. 67 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 4: It got worse and it exposed a problem that's been 68 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 4: existing for a long time, but it magnified it and 69 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 4: exposed it. And I think, you know, things like I wrote, 70 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 4: and I'm certainly not the only one. People are being 71 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 4: far more outspoken on this now. And so yeah, it's 72 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 4: come to the forefront of attention. And yeah, like I 73 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 4: said before, it gets to the question of now, what 74 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 4: do you do now, how do you fix it? 75 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 7: If you can fix it, and what are your thoughts 76 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 7: on that after all of your reporting and listening and learning. 77 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, in terms of fixing it. You know, the really 78 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 4: interesting thing I found when I started this, I thought 79 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 4: it would be a money thing that you know, they 80 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 4: weren't making enough money. That's really not the case. You know, 81 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 4: some head pros make really good money. Money for assistance 82 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 4: even has gone up, you know quite well in the 83 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 4: last five to ten years. The problem is time. The 84 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 4: time is the thing that's killing them. And especially for 85 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 4: young people, either who are still in the industry but 86 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 4: thinking of getting out or the ones who did get out, 87 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 4: they're looking at the head pros. They worked under who 88 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 4: may have had the dream job right that they said, 89 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 4: this is where I want to be. And what they 90 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 4: see is that that head pro never sees his children, 91 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 4: that head pro got divorced, he's an alcoholic, he's depressed, 92 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 4: whatever the case is. They go, even the dream jo 93 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 4: doesn't look good. It's kind of terrible. And so time 94 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 4: is the critical issue. So you need to instead of 95 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 4: paying your assistant twenty thousand dollars more in your head 96 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 4: pro twenty thousand dollars more, you need to hire another assistant, 97 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 4: which is more expensive. Right, But that's the thing. More 98 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 4: people is the only thing that reduces the collective hours 99 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 4: that everybody has to work. And the solution is simple 100 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 4: in that sense, but not simple for these clubs to 101 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 4: actually do because it is obviously a budgetary cost. 102 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 7: Here's Chandler Whittington again, a voice from parts one and two, 103 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 7: Withington worked at Seminal Marion and Hazelteine, which is where 104 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 7: he resigned from his post as head professional in twenty 105 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 7: twenty one. 106 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 2: There's this generational gap. And I told Seth and Pepper 107 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 2: to twenty I said, you've got to get the leaders 108 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: of CMAA, the club manders association the same room with PGA, 109 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 2: and we need to understand each other better. You know, 110 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: how are things changing? Who are we, where are we now? 111 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: What are we going? And what is crucial art to 112 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: our success and what will ultimately cripple us if we 113 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 2: don't address it. So that article is meant to be 114 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: awareness first education seconds. You know, we want the we 115 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: want club pros understand like you know, Kelly Williams from 116 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: Kentucky used the Big l work. We want to have 117 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 2: it in there is like there's never timers right now, 118 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 2: you know, not just club pros but superintendents to leverage 119 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 2: yourself because the competition is dwindling by the day. 120 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 7: More from Cody Sinkler, director of golf operations at the 121 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 7: park in West Palm Beach, Florida. 122 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 2: I don't know that there's one solution other than. 123 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 8: Us using our voices and making sure that we prioritize 124 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 8: our own work life balance and make sure that we're 125 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 8: working for employers who are going to do the same. 126 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 8: And and I frankly don't think we should tolerate if 127 00:06:55,400 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 8: if we're being expected to kill ourselves to speak, we 128 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 8: just have to someone's got to just stop it. Say 129 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 8: this is Enough's enough? And I want to work a 130 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 8: forty hour week. I want to have two days off 131 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 8: A lot to ask right day is off a week. 132 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 8: But it's little things, so employers. So in my case, 133 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 8: you know, we're a startup facility. We'll be adding employees soon, 134 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 8: and one of the first I mean one of the 135 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 8: first things that we'll be doing is assessing any ways 136 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 8: we can the work life balance of anyone we bring 137 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 8: on to our team and adding perks. I mean, I've 138 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 8: seen job postings from high end private clubs. I counted 139 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 8: one recently that had about thirty bullet points under responsibilities 140 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 8: and qualifications and one bullet point under benefits and it 141 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 8: just said competitive pay. So we need to realize that 142 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 8: these people are trying to make a career. I mean, 143 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 8: let's make sure we're giving them pay. We're giving them 144 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 8: retirement with a match. We're giving them health benefits, We're 145 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 8: giving them family benefits at the club or golf course. 146 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 8: We're giving them two days off a week, two days 147 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 8: off a week. I mean, it's little things that can 148 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 8: add up to making a big change for our industry. 149 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 8: Young people are not going to want to come in 150 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 8: and work six and seven day weeks, sixty hour weeks 151 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 8: and make fifteen dollars an hour. They just don't want 152 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 8: to do it, and I don't blame them, by the way. 153 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 7: And here's Connor Evers, who graduated from the PGM program 154 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 7: at Methodist University in Fayetteville, North Carolina. After several successful 155 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 7: internships at elite clubs all over the world. His current 156 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 7: job is expedition planning manager for Haversham and Baker, a 157 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 7: company that describes themselves as quote the country a club 158 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 7: of international golf travel. 159 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 9: I would just say more more work life balance. I 160 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 9: have a great friend here in Cincinnati. Uh he works 161 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 9: at it's called Kenwood Country Club and he's he's actually 162 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 9: a head professional there and a part of his interview 163 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 9: and actually it's funny, I'm speaking to a lot of 164 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 9: my my my friends are also PGA professionals at interviewing 165 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 9: for different jobs. That's one of our questions now, And 166 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,239 Speaker 9: that was never one of my questions many of my interviews, 167 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 9: you know, when I was you know, doing doing internship 168 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 9: interviews a little bit different than you know, postgraduate stuff. 169 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 9: But that's actually one of one of the questions now, 170 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 9: like what what are these clubs doing for work life balance. 171 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 9: You know, how many days am I expecting to be off, 172 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 9: you know, per week? And how much golf am I 173 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 9: able to play? Am I able to play with members? 174 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 9: It's just more of those questions that I really don't 175 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 9: think Matt you would ask, You would ask in an 176 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 9: interview in the golf industry even three years ago, two 177 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 9: or three years ago. So I think that's a great 178 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 9: change in the right direction. But I would say, you know, 179 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 9: magical line like yourself, I would say work life balance 180 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 9: for sure. Kind of looking back at it. 181 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 7: More from Robins mainly, who became a class A pro 182 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 7: twenty years ago. He was an assistant pro at Breckinridge 183 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 7: Golf Club for both decades. After getting married at the 184 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 7: age of forty six, he left the golf industry to 185 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 7: sell real estate. 186 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 3: I think also a thing that could be done better 187 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 3: is that one than all these management companies have for 188 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 3: the most part of taking over the shops. So there's 189 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 3: very few pros that own the shop. But you make 190 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 3: it part of the package, not what you grew up with, 191 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 3: but you make it where the where all the members 192 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 3: own the shop, all the PGA members, And yeah, there's 193 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 3: a higher cut for the head dog. But there's a 194 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 3: you know, then I'm trying hard to sell a driver 195 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 3: out on the range, and I'm coming in for more 196 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 3: club fittings because there's I'm regripping more clubs because I 197 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 3: have a piece of the action, and I think that's 198 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 3: where then the shops I think would make more money 199 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 3: because all the assistants are pushing harder. You know, if 200 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: you're just paying them an hourly wage, they're just going 201 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: to come in and do their job and leave. So 202 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: if there's a skin in the game, you always work harder. 203 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 3: You know, you guys are starting your own thing, and 204 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 3: all of you are working harder than you probably did before. 205 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 3: But that's because there's skin in the game. And I 206 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 3: think that could be the ultimate solution because then if 207 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 3: the pro shop grows and more sales, then it's not 208 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 3: coming out of the operator's expense. 209 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 7: And here's Josh Doxentter, general manager at Harbor Shores Resort 210 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 7: in Benton Harbor, Michigan. 211 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 10: Don't. 212 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 11: I don't think it's an easy or equip fix because 213 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 11: you know, we're we're members of an organization that has 214 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 11: no say into our operations and ownership, right, so we 215 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 11: work for either an ownership group of board or management companies, 216 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 11: but the PGA does not own in the facility, so 217 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 11: there's only so much that they can do. I think 218 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 11: being in you know, I was in the Southwest section 219 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 11: for eleven years. I was in the Wisconsin section four 220 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 11: and a half years. Now I'm in Michigan. Been in 221 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 11: this section for over three years. And what I've seen 222 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 11: is something in every single section is that the typical 223 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 11: PG member feels like there's they don't have a voice, 224 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 11: like they don't they're not being heard, and is there 225 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 11: some truth to that? 226 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 3: Maybe? 227 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 11: I think, you know, I have the opportunity, because of 228 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 11: the Senior PGA Championship, because of other things, to have 229 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 11: maybe more of an inside look. I sit on the 230 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 11: national board for PGA works, you know, and be able 231 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 11: to kind of see what's going on behind the scenes. 232 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 11: But I would also say that if you if you 233 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 11: want to be a part of change, you have to 234 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 11: put yourself in that mix, right If you want to 235 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 11: have a voice, you need to start running for your board, 236 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 11: you need to start, you know, doing different things to 237 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 11: get involved in the PG of America. Do I think 238 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 11: that Seth has done a great job as CEO so far. Absolutely, 239 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 11: he's really he's been the first one in a while 240 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 11: that's really taken to heart what the PGA members are 241 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 11: seeing and really trying to find ways to get around 242 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 11: some of the challenges that they face for decades. 243 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 7: We'll get to more on Seth Wall later and he 244 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 7: gets his own episode, but for now, it's back to 245 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 7: Cody Sinkler. 246 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 8: I know right now, as these numbers drop, as less 247 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 8: people are getting into this profession, we can be more 248 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 8: selective with where we work option A versus option B. 249 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 8: If you're going to offer me a five day work 250 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 8: week and you're not, I don't want to work for you. 251 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 8: So we need to be more selective, and employers should 252 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 8: just try to do every little all these little things 253 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 8: can add up every little thing they can to improve 254 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 8: work life balance and put it at the forefront. Be creative. 255 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 8: One weekend, day off a month, I mean two days 256 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 8: off a week. There's a lot of things floating, holidays. 257 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 8: There's a lot of things we can do that can 258 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 8: add up. But the pg of America has been a 259 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 8: positive voice, but the onus is on the employers for sure. 260 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 7: Here's Butch Harmon and his thoughts on where we go 261 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 7: from here is the pg of America helping? Is Seth 262 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 7: waw helping? Do you see some sense of hope and 263 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 7: progress going now back in the right direction direction? 264 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 2: Well, as you know, I've. 265 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,479 Speaker 1: Never been a member of the PGA my whole existence, 266 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: and people ask me why, and there is no real reason. 267 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I'm just kind of a little 268 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: bit of a rebel, I guess, and I do things 269 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: the way I want to do it. And I'm not 270 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: saying the PGA is bad because it's not. Seth why, 271 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: I think is the best guy they could have in 272 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: charge of the PGA of America right now, without a doubt. 273 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: He's a guy you and I know very well. He's 274 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: the guy that loves golf. Yes, he was a great 275 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: businessman with Deutsche Bank and stuff, but he's been involved 276 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: in golf and around golf his whole life. So he's 277 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: the right guy, is there. But just because you have 278 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: the right guy, how are you going to change this? 279 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: How are you going to take you know? They love 280 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: to say I don't know how many members they have 281 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: twenty seven thousand or are you hear it? At the 282 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: PGA for all the twenty seven twenty twenty eight thousand 283 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: PGA members. Okay, you have all these members, how are 284 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: you going to create an environment that's going to make 285 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: their life better. That's going to be hard for this 286 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: organization to do this. And the PGA of America should 287 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: be like a union. They should take care of all 288 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: their members. Remember when COVID hit oh who was it 289 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: that had all the discount stores A Dix They had 290 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: all these discounts, so that had all these young PGA 291 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: pros working there as teachers. They fired them all the 292 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: government of all of them. So all these young people 293 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: that were involved and teaching in the Dick's stores, in 294 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: their teaching base and stuff, who were supposedly working to 295 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: be a PGA member, and a lot of them were 296 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: PGA members, were gone. And do anything about that. They 297 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: didn't go to Dick's and try and fight for them 298 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: and say hey, no, you need to be here. So this, 299 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: this company, the PGA of America, needs to take care 300 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: of it it's people better. And I think Seth is 301 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: a guy who can do that. But how do you 302 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: do it? I mean, it's gone, it's gone downhill for 303 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: so long. And please, for all of your PGA pros 304 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: out there at head professionals. I'm not knocking you. We're 305 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: just talking about what the system has become, not you 306 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: as an individual. I know you guys are great golf pros. 307 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: You do the best you can with your job, but 308 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: you're caught in an industry now that doesn't seem to 309 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: really care about you. 310 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 7: Back to Chandler Withington, why would or wouldn't there be 311 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 7: a unionization of of PGA club pros. 312 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: It's becoming a reality. I mean, let's look at Amazon 313 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: and Starbucks. You know, it comes a point where employees 314 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: are like, we actually, you know, we're in a position 315 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 2: to make the terms now, and that's what we're trying 316 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 2: to kill you willms using that leverage where tell the 317 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 2: pros like, you're actually at a point where you actually 318 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 2: now have the leverage use it, you know, And you know, 319 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 2: I don't think it's like you need to take people 320 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 2: to the shed on it, but it's just creating realistic 321 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 2: and accomplishable expectations across the board that like Visa the standards, 322 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 2: we're not going to work more than fifty five a week. 323 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 2: You know. After then it's the law of diminishing return, right, 324 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 2: so you don't need to ask for everything you can't 325 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 2: get everything, but what's really most important, and what we 326 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 2: just kind of learned from that was it's not more money, 327 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 2: it's just more time away, you know, having a sustainable life. 328 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 5: That's all. 329 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, seems fair. 330 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 2: You'll like to think, right like, I'm sad that I 331 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: had to leave to find it, but I was at 332 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 2: peace immediately, even though we didn't know where we where 333 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: we were. 334 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 5: Going to go. 335 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 2: It was a My wife saw it, you know, when 336 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 2: I kind of was like, that's it, we're moving on. 337 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: It happened quickly. She's like, you're totally a peace with this, 338 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: I said, I am. When I start thinking about all 339 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 2: that I'm not going to deal with. I'm going to 340 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: miss a lot of it. But the stuff I'm not 341 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 2: going to miss, you know, I know it's going to be. 342 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 2: It's going to get weird here for us. We don't 343 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 2: know where we're going. We're gonna move whatever in kids, 344 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 2: and but you're going to see a lot more of me, 345 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: and that's what we've gotten. 346 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 7: Shane Ryan on the possibility of unionizing. 347 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 4: It would take an incredible act of collectivization, right. It 348 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 4: would take a collective labor act that would be very 349 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 4: difficult to get all these people, like you said, in 350 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 4: these siloed disparate clubs to do it would certainly help them. 351 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 4: And you know, this is far from the only industry 352 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 4: where you can say this, but you and I talking, 353 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 4: it's hard not to leap to just what you said. Boy, 354 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 4: how useful would a labor union be if they could strike, right? 355 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 4: I mean, if they could do these things even, you know, 356 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 4: if they could you know, talk to each other and 357 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 4: say like, okay, you know, this is what we all make, 358 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 4: here's the standard. How do we fight for it? And 359 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 4: you shouldn't accept thirty thousand dollars even if you're you know, 360 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 4: in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania or something like that. 361 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 4: There's all these things that would be good to do. 362 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 4: The question of can they do it? It would take 363 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 4: a separate organization, I think from the PJA of America. 364 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 4: I don't think that would be the unionizing force. It 365 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 4: would take them organizing it themselves, and it would take 366 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 4: incredible buy in. And that's you love to dream of it, 367 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 4: but it's I guess I'm probably a little cynical about 368 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 4: whether that can or will happen. 369 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 7: Why would you say you're cynical? You know, hearing from 370 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 7: so many or what where does that come from? 371 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 4: The cynicism would be that to have a union, you're 372 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 4: going to have to have people pay union dues, right, 373 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 4: So you're going to have to ask for money from 374 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 4: the club pros and you're going to have to get 375 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 4: a buy in of over fifty percent. 376 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 9: Right. 377 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 4: And again we're looking at there's nothing joining any of 378 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 4: these organizations together except they're all golf clubs. Right. There's 379 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 4: no fundamental commonality other than that, and so that's hard 380 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 4: to get people to do that even in you know, 381 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 4: you can look at any other like the auto industry 382 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 4: in the US, right, There's it's tough for unions to 383 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 4: thrive even in that because it's very easy for people 384 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 4: to sort of propagandize against unions by saying, what are 385 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 4: they going to do for you? You know, just deal 386 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 4: with management. We're friendly. And let's face it, if you're 387 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 4: an assistant pro at some club where you like to 388 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 4: be and you don't want to move, and the idea 389 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 4: is you're going to join a union and antagonize for 390 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 4: higher wages, well, the union you're going to join is 391 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 4: going to be full of people that aren't from where 392 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 4: you're from right, it's going to be this network that 393 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 4: you have, but the people you're dealing with every day 394 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 4: are your bosses that you literally see every time you 395 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 4: go into work, and so that's it's a tough situation. 396 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's the problem with unions everywhere, so 397 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 4: getting that on a large scale together when there's no 398 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 4: framework for it yet, right, It's not like there's an 399 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 4: old club, you know, club pros union that just needs 400 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 4: to be reactivated. There's literally nothing, and so I think 401 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 4: that's very very high bar to clear. 402 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 7: Back to Robin's manly of Breckinridge, unionizing is something that's 403 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 7: been mentioned but seems incredibly unrealistic considering the the fragmentation 404 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 7: of the PGA of America isn't in control here. It's 405 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 7: course by course, club by club. There's no there's no 406 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 7: true way of trying to get together like the masses 407 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 7: to organize, right. It just almost seems oddly unrealistic completely. 408 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 3: I think I was involved in unionization and Ski Patrol, 409 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 3: which is a very similar It's funny that I was 410 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 3: in two businesses that were work their tail off and 411 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 3: we're grossly underpaid. But Ski Patrol has they've been able 412 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 3: to form union. Veil resorts own so many resorts that 413 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 3: they've been able to unionize because it is just a 414 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: ski resort, the same employee running. I don't know how 415 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: much you have ever skied, but so I'm in the 416 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 3: thralls of that as well. But there's zero chance of 417 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 3: being able to have a unionization of golf professionals. I 418 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 3: can't possibly see how that could. Yeah, I or call 419 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 3: it impossible. 420 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 11: Josh Dockson, I don't know if it's completely appropriate. I 421 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 11: think to me again, it's it's more of help educate 422 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 11: everybody around you what the job of pg professional is. 423 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 11: It's not coming into work and you know, hanging out 424 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 11: for a couple of hours playing golf and then you know, 425 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 11: having a couple of drinks at the bar. That's not 426 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 11: a PGA professional, right, And it's really helping people understand 427 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 11: what that looks like. I know the PGA did some 428 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 11: campaigns in years past about thank your PGA professional and 429 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 11: stuff like that, but I think it's more than that. 430 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 11: It's more of an education to be like, hey, this 431 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 11: is what we're here for. We're here to serve. That's 432 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,959 Speaker 11: ultimately what PGA professionals. We're here to serve. We're here 433 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 11: to grow the game. We're here to make sure that 434 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 11: you know, if we're truly the experts in golf, that 435 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 11: you can come to us anything golf related, and we can. 436 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 10: If we don't have the. 437 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 11: Answer, we can at least steer you in the right direction. 438 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 11: And like I said, my biggest focus is trying to 439 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 11: make sure that we have less bums coming up through 440 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 11: the Apprentice program and more stars Channler Withington. 441 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 2: Look, I think the point about like, look, you know 442 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 2: there are a lot of club pros that can't break 443 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: eighty is valid, But I also understand the reasons why 444 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: I can. I want to give you that whole history, 445 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 2: going back to Alan Robertson talk about when did things shift, 446 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: you know, and how did you take club pros like 447 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: Bob Ford in the eighties who was qualifying for the 448 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: US Open and playing it whiles he's hosting it to 449 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 2: now forty years later, Like you'll never see that again. 450 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 2: People be like, you'll never see a pro at a 451 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: club like that qualify for you, So well, why keep 452 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 2: in mind, like and you probably know that some of 453 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: the qualifications like and this may be something pre to 454 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: talk with Seth about. I think I've talked about this 455 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 2: with Seth, but I'm going to talk to Don Rey 456 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 2: at the annual meeting. But I don't know how much 457 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 2: really the PGA can do. Right Seth has been banging 458 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 2: the drum like he's been at met meetings and our things, 459 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: trying to tell club leaders like, look, this is your 460 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 2: opportunity to fix this. We can't fix it for you. 461 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 2: We oversee the professionals. But unless professionals unionized, which isn't 462 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 2: out of the realm. I don't think that's a crazy 463 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 2: thought anymore. But until then, like, the PGA really can't 464 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 2: force any work. 465 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 5: You know. 466 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: How work is handled, right, That all comes it's club 467 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 2: the club. Every culture is different, but the qualifications to 468 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: be a PGA member. I passed my playing ability test 469 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 2: on the same day that pains to Or died in 470 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 2: October twenty sixth, nineteen ninety nine. I you know, plast 471 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 2: playmabilly test. Now I am here a PGA member twenty 472 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 2: three years later, and I've never had any standard of 473 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 2: my playing since it doesn't matter if I can't break 474 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 2: one hundred right now, I'm still a PGA member, right 475 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 2: So I hate to kind of throw it in this context, 476 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 2: but like very much the same as live. Right, what's 477 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 2: the motivation to play well in more when it's all guaranteed, right, 478 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: my salary and my contract's not tied to how well 479 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 2: I play. I think if you actually do some digging 480 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 2: on this, from what I understand, maybe things have changed. 481 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: Australian PGA does have a standard playing requirement, like you're 482 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,959 Speaker 2: indexcess to always be like a three or something like that, 483 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 2: so that people look at Austrian and PJ players they 484 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 2: know what they can play. Now the business is completely 485 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 2: different in Australia, but like playing on my strong, pg's 486 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 2: put it a high emphasis over the last thirty years, PGA, 487 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 2: like clubs and board leaders been like we don't care 488 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 2: if you can break seventy, Like who's going to run 489 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: that outing on Monday? You know who's going to sell 490 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 2: that membership, Like you know who's going to run the Ladies' night. Right, 491 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 2: It's become more of the admin and the staff and 492 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: the service level less about helping us play the game, 493 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: because we've got teachers who are you know, one hundred 494 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 2: percent full time teachers who can help us with that 495 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: use the club pro We don't care if you can 496 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 2: play more you do this and it's gotten kind of 497 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: a fragment a little bit. And I think that's when 498 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: you see people getting out. It's like like, you know, 499 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: we all got into this because we love playing the game, 500 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 2: and then it's just over the years, like it's gone down. 501 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 9: Now. 502 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 2: Look, if you worked for Bob Ford like I did, 503 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: he told you like the minute you start posting scores 504 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 2: in the eighties and tournaments, just take my name right 505 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: off the resume. 506 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 9: Right. 507 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 2: So we've always been like pushed by Bob to like 508 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 2: maintain our game. And I'm glad I did. Like I'm 509 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 2: not a pro anymore, Like I'm still trying to play better, right, 510 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 2: But I think that's what you've just kind of seen. 511 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 2: Like again, you weren't wrong, but I just want you 512 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 2: to understand how do we get here, you know, because 513 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 2: that wasn't the case thirty forty years ago. 514 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 7: More from Shane Ryan. I was talking to a couple 515 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 7: of own, you know, assistant pros who have now gone 516 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 7: on to other industries. And if you've got these assistants 517 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 7: who are good people people and they're they're making friends 518 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 7: at these clubs, and these people are then you know, 519 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 7: our CEOs or or you know, own or part of 520 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 7: in a position to pluck these people out and bring 521 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 7: them into other industries. You know, that's good for these 522 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 7: assistant pros. They're they're utilizing this this this platform, so 523 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 7: to speak, and getting jobs and other industry. But that's 524 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 7: bad for the industry because now you just lost your 525 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 7: best people because they're not being paid. Now they're going 526 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 7: to get It's so easy to get them out of you, 527 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 7: Like I can double your salary if your salary is 528 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 7: thirty grand. It's pretty easy to double someone's salary as 529 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 7: a position or triple it and say come work for me. 530 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 7: And so that's a benefit for these people, but a 531 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 7: bad thing for the industry. 532 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 4: It's true. And you know, the interesting thing is the 533 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 4: reason all these people got into the industry is because 534 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 4: they love golf. Right, you don't get into it because 535 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 4: you're like, oh, I'm going to become a millionaire or 536 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 4: anything like that. And so a lot of that I 537 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 4: like you. I talked to a lot of people who 538 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 4: had left the industry and they're glad they left because 539 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 4: the stress was killing them. And then they have more 540 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 4: of a family life. But almost all of them have 541 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 4: a sense of regret. It's not like, you know, they 542 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 4: still want to work in golf, that that was the dream. 543 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 4: It's not like they're you know, in their sales job 544 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 4: or whatever. They may be happy and they may be 545 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 4: more content, but there is something lost there. In other words, 546 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 4: if you treat these people correctly, you know, and give 547 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 4: them a little bit of work life balance, they want 548 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 4: to stay in the golf and they don't want to 549 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 4: be blocked by the club member. They want to be 550 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 4: where they are. It's just that the situation becomes untenable 551 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 4: and they and they start to see for my family life, 552 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 4: from my mental health, I better get the hell out 553 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 4: of here or my life will be miserable. 554 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 7: Brad Sniper, I. 555 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,719 Speaker 10: Work somewhere where one of their former assistant pros hit 556 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 10: it off with one of the members and the member 557 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 10: ended up paying for him to go to law school 558 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 10: and he works at his law firm. Now there you 559 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 10: hear all these stories about you know, professionals getting into 560 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 10: that side of the industry, you know, getting close with 561 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 10: a member or someone who works at the club, or yeah, 562 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 10: like you said, just connecting with someone through golf, whether 563 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 10: it's a club or outside of the club, being a 564 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 10: golf professional. It kind of it forces you to be 565 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 10: that kind of even if it's not your natural kind 566 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 10: of inclination. It forces you to be a people person. 567 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 10: It forces you to step out of your comfort zone. 568 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 10: And it's really hard if you're not able to see 569 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 10: the person walking up to the tee, if you're starting groups, 570 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 10: start a conversation, find something to relate to, whether it's 571 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 10: a logo on their shirt, Oh did you play XYZ club? 572 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: I was there a couple of weeks ago, whatever. 573 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 10: It's It teaches you how to make those connections, and 574 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,959 Speaker 10: that serves you pretty much anywhere in life. You know, 575 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 10: if you can adjust to a different environment, whether it's 576 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,479 Speaker 10: golf or not being able to put yourself in an 577 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 10: environment that might not be your comfort zone and still 578 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 10: adapt and thrive there, that serves you anywhere in life, 579 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 10: not just golf. So I feel like what we do 580 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 10: does kind of prepare you for just life in general 581 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 10: and succeeding anywhere. And there are these stories, yeah, of 582 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 10: people getting their start in the industry in green Grass, 583 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 10: but kind of either tagging along with someone somewhere else 584 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 10: finding success in another business, industry, whatever it may be, 585 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 10: because of that foundation of skills that you get as 586 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 10: a golf professional. 587 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 9: For sure. 588 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 7: Connor Evers again, who graduated from the PGM program at 589 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 7: Methodist University in Fayettville, North Carolina. 590 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 9: There's so much any stories so or I went to 591 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 9: went to school. There's a thirteen hundred alumni from the program, 592 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 9: and they've had the PGM program there since I believe 593 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 9: they started in eighty six. They used to know all 594 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 9: the stuff off the top I had when I worked there, 595 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 9: but now I don't. But so to eighty six, a 596 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 9: little over thirteen hundred alumni, and there's so many stories 597 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 9: of you know, people in their mid twenties, really thirties, 598 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 9: their goal one day is to be a head professional, 599 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 9: director of golf, director of instruction at a top club. 600 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 9: And they meet someone and they're the director of you know, 601 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 9: beer or wine sales for a huge distributor in Chicago, 602 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 9: and they're done. You know, it happens that way because 603 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 9: you know, a lot of these top executives at clubs, 604 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 9: that's their getaway is being at the golf course and 605 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 9: being a member there and they're a little bit more 606 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 9: relaxed and have a conversation with someone and that's where 607 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 9: the conversations start is in spark around the golf course 608 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 9: and around the club. So so yeah, you just never know, 609 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 9: you never. 610 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 7: Know exactly Robin's manly. It could still an entry point 611 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 7: to something that's so unrelated from golf, but it starts 612 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 7: in golf, and then golf continues to have to try 613 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 7: to figure out how to piece this all together. 614 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 3: Huge absolutely correct, especially in the private sector. You know, 615 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 3: if you're a good assistant, you're gonna you're going to 616 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 3: have a member that enjoys your work ethic and enjoys 617 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 3: how you communicate with people and and organizational skills and 618 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 3: all that that you can take to another another job. 619 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 3: So that's and and there's a huge number that have 620 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 3: done that. I've got a ton of friends that got 621 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 3: their their current job through going through golf. But golf 622 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 3: needs people to stay. You know, if this growth, and 623 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,239 Speaker 3: you mentioned COVID and I that's when I that's when 624 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 3: I was done good and bad. But it's but it's 625 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 3: monkers and it's but it's not going to last forever, 626 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 3: you know, the the I would have to think that 627 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 3: as an average we're going to start start seeing a 628 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 3: tick around down before it just can't continue. I don't 629 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 3: think and then where where's that? Yeah, I don't Seth 630 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 3: probably had some pretty good, pretty good answers and ideas. 631 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 3: The problem is getting those ideas out and into the 632 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 3: hands of the employer. The whether it's the management company, 633 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 3: privately owned, resort, course, municipal course, it's the employer that 634 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 3: has to know these problems. And I think as I 635 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 3: was at the at the meeting and we were on 636 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 3: a break, I was like, we've got to get these 637 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 3: employers to some of these meetings. It doesn't do a 638 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 3: great job for all of us pros to be here 639 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 3: some of these employers. And I think I don't know 640 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 3: if Seth mentioned that, but that would be a starting 641 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 3: point for sure, would be the PGA of America saying, 642 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 3: let's get the employers together and explain our side of 643 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 3: the story so they understand it better. Because I think 644 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 3: there's just a disconnect from the very tippy top down 645 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 3: to that that assistant pro where if I keep using 646 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 3: the word assistant bro. But there's club pros, heat pros 647 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 3: that still aren't making great money. They're certainly making better money, 648 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 3: but very very few are making the six figures Chandler Withington. 649 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 2: All that needs to happen is for leader at every 650 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: club to be like, you know, if you're the pro listen, 651 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 2: you know when that's not here on Sunday or he's 652 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 2: not here on Tuesday, he's with his family, and we 653 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 2: support that, and you know, we're not going to be 654 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 2: texting him, you know outside of the hours of nine 655 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 2: to five, we're not going to be emailing outside ninety five. 656 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 2: Our expectations for this person that change, and we're we're 657 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 2: going to have a better and happier employee and you know, 658 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 2: a longer tenure relationship because of it. There are no 659 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 2: bad people in this equation. We just have missed to 660 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 2: understand the shift in the priority of life. And it's 661 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 2: not a bad shift, Like we'll all come out of 662 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 2: this better if we just recognize it, hire a few 663 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 2: other a few more employees to like to compensate for it, 664 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 2: and and we'll have better relationships and better staff and 665 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 2: better people and like a better product. Where I'd be 666 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 2: sad for our association and the game. It's like we 667 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 2: still have a lot of great people left in it, 668 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 2: but we're losing people by the day and eventually, like 669 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 2: we're going to wake up tomorrow and go where they 670 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,919 Speaker 2: all go, you know, and and you know, why didn't 671 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 2: we do something about this sooner? You know, there's there 672 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 2: should be people like me that are eighteen and wanting 673 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 2: to be the pro. The pro should be that thing 674 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 2: that people want to be. And I just don't want 675 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 2: to see it get the black eye that it's getting 676 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: right now. You know, I think we've got a chance 677 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 2: to do something here. And look your microphone, chance, Shane's 678 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 2: Penn and many others. You know, we collectively tell this 679 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 2: story and try to get people look in the mirror 680 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 2: and recognize what's going on. We'll be okay. You know, 681 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 2: se Seth gets it. You know he's been talking about it, 682 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 2: and you'll have a good conversation with him. 683 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 7: Next up in part four of this series, My conversation 684 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 7: with Seth Wall, former CEO of Deutsche Bank and CEO 685 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 7: of the PG of America since September of twenty eighteen. 686 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 5: You know, I can't pay them more, but I can 687 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 5: try to get people to pay them more by having 688 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 5: them understand and then having them realize that they're not 689 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 5: an asset, They're not a lever. You can pull their 690 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 5: people right who have kids and colleges and tuitions, to 691 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 5: pay and car payments and you know, et cetera, cetera. 692 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: Right, and and. 693 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 5: They work, you know, in a great industry doing something 694 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 5: they love, but ungottly hours. Right, And it's a little 695 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 5: bit you know, too much chocolate ice cream, right, Like 696 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 5: it's great until you know you have you have too much? 697 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 5: Like people say, well, do you play much, and go, no, 698 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 5: I'm in the industry. I don't play at all, right, 699 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 5: And it's kind of like, well that's crazy, Like if 700 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 5: we can't play, like, who can, right, So I think 701 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 5: it's a matter of freeing our pros up to do 702 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 5: what they love. Is just a play more. Play with members, 703 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 5: play with guests, play with you know with if you're 704 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 5: at a municipal course, play in a you know, a 705 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 5: Skins game or whatever it is you do, right, Like, 706 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 5: how else are you going to you know, understand your 707 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 5: customers better? 708 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 6: Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is get 709 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 6: the tie