Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the
Speaker 1: home office in Austin, Texas on a very special Father's
Speaker 1: Day edition of the most dramatic podcast ever. And this
Speaker 1: is an important podcast I wanted to do today because
Speaker 1: there are these weeks of the year, well really all
Speaker 1: holidays that hit differently for different people. Mother's Day, Father's
Speaker 1: Day among them, because unfortunately, not everybody has their mom
Speaker 1: and dad with them. And this is a perspective that
Speaker 1: I have really gained thanks to my first guest today,
Speaker 1: Lauren Zema.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, guests, Well, I mean.
Speaker 1: Really today's I have two very special guests day. One
Speaker 1: of them is you and then another is a doctor
Speaker 1: Chris Taylor, who is you know, has twenty years of
Speaker 1: experience in therapy and in especially twenty years experience in
Speaker 1: parent teen expert and helping families. And what I wanted
Speaker 1: to really dive into today because you gave me this
Speaker 1: amazing perspective once we got married, was you know, Father's
Speaker 1: Day hits different. Your father, Gary Zema, an amazing dad
Speaker 1: to three beautiful children, is no longer with us, and
Speaker 1: so these days these weeks are so different for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually did a little video for Experience Camps
Speaker 3: where I volunteer about this weekend because we talk about
Speaker 3: it a lot in the grief community, because yeah it
Speaker 3: you know, you see a Father's Day card display and
Speaker 3: that's like this little kind of mini punch to the gut,
Speaker 3: you know, and years ago for me, it was a
Speaker 3: bigger punch to the gut. Like one thing that I
Speaker 3: do want to say and while and it makes me
Speaker 3: excited to have this expert come on, is because I'm
Speaker 3: a little bit removed from like those first years. I mean,
Speaker 3: I lost my dad almost fifteen years ago now, and
Speaker 3: from a positive perspective and not from a viewpoint of
Speaker 3: like forgetting about your person. I want to tell grieving
Speaker 3: people it gets better. Time does help. But I think
Speaker 3: he'll be good to help remind us and give pointers
Speaker 3: for if you're like fresher into loss and loss can
Speaker 3: also be you know, I don't know, was your dad
Speaker 3: never in your life?
Speaker 2: Was that person? You know?
Speaker 3: Did you never know your dad because then Father's Day
Speaker 3: hurts in a different way, or did your parents split
Speaker 3: up and maybe now you're estranged or there's all kinds
Speaker 3: of different loss and grief, and it does make these
Speaker 3: holidays hit a little bit. So I have my ways
Speaker 3: of dealing with it, which we can talk to with
Speaker 3: him about. But let's bring him on because I want
Speaker 3: to get into his expert opinions on all these different
Speaker 3: types of loss and how to navigate on.
Speaker 1: Chris Taylor twenty years of experience, passionate about helping families.
Speaker 1: He's also an accomplished author speaker, and he joins us now.
Speaker 2: Chris, thanks for being with us.
Speaker 3: I feel like you might be the easiest guest name
Speaker 3: to remember we've ever had, because we have my Chris
Speaker 3: here and his daughter's name is Taylor. So thank you
Speaker 3: for your convenience and your expertise.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, awesome. I always joke I've never met a
Speaker 4: Chris I didn't like.
Speaker 1: So well, it's weird how handsome we all are.
Speaker 4: I feel like that's true, and I think we're like,
Speaker 4: what three fifths of the Avengers something like that.
Speaker 1: That's true. I always lose out to Hymnsworth in the
Speaker 1: favorite Chris category.
Speaker 3: I know in those polls they'll do like brackets and
Speaker 3: I love you, babe, But Hamsworth does usually be check
Speaker 3: and proud.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Chris, thank you for joining us on a
Speaker 1: very special Father's Day edition. And I wanted to kind
Speaker 1: of dive in with you and with my beautiful wife, Lauren,
Speaker 1: because she is really the one that's giving me perspective
Speaker 1: on this. My dad is still alive, we still get
Speaker 1: to talk, we're very close, we have a great relationship.
Speaker 1: So my Father's Day experience has always been the same.
Speaker 1: It's that traditional, you know, Hallmark edition. But as Lauren
Speaker 1: has taught me and I've learned even more, it's not
Speaker 1: like that for everybody. And so I wanted to bring
Speaker 1: you on to talk just about that that there are
Speaker 1: very different, wild versions of Father's Day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, Lauren, you know, I'm
Speaker 4: sorry to hear about your father's death obviously, and you
Speaker 4: know you've had a lot of years to you know,
Speaker 4: sort of acclimate to that. But you know, absenteeism in
Speaker 4: father's and abandonment, and you know, so death is just
Speaker 4: one part of this sort of overall experience. You know,
Speaker 4: I think it's just giving people permission to experience all
Speaker 4: that it is and not sort of predefining because like
Speaker 4: you said, I think we all go in It's like
Speaker 4: Father's Day. You know, we're going to get that barbecue set,
Speaker 4: We're going to get the car wax kit. Right, But
Speaker 4: there's people out there that are like, I have no
Speaker 4: frame of reference for what even Father's Day is, and
Speaker 4: they just treat it like every other day. And then
Speaker 4: you layer on when you've had a dad and you've
Speaker 4: experienced death. I mean, that's just so painful because each
Speaker 4: year represents just time moving on and you know that
Speaker 4: lack of that presence in life so totally.
Speaker 3: And I was just saying you probably couldn't hear before, Chris,
Speaker 3: but yeah, there's all sorts of different types of loss
Speaker 3: or people who never even had a father. And I
Speaker 3: think think you just hit on something important, which is
Speaker 3: I find this and I'd love your opinion on like
Speaker 3: what to say to people or how to explain this
Speaker 3: to people. But the problem is you become the bummer, right,
Speaker 3: Like if I'm not super happy on Father's Day, or
Speaker 3: if I'm like having a moment where I'm crying or
Speaker 3: missing my dad, then I'm bringing the mood down and
Speaker 3: people like not only maybe feel uncomfortable, but they don't
Speaker 3: know what to do or say, and they sort of
Speaker 3: feel like you're killing the vibe. What's your advice to
Speaker 3: people on how they can help support I guess just
Speaker 3: first from an aspect maybe of people who have lost
Speaker 3: a father, but how they can support someone who for them,
Speaker 3: Father's Day is maybe a bit of a grief moment
Speaker 3: or maybe even more so, like it's gotten better for
Speaker 3: me over the years, but earlier on God, I would
Speaker 3: see an advert like a commercial for something for Father's Day,
Speaker 3: like home Depot doing Father's Day, and that could potentially
Speaker 3: put me in tears.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's so hard. I mean one, I
Speaker 4: think it's giving space for human emotion. I mean emotion.
Speaker 4: It makes people uncomfortable, right, and so I get it.
Speaker 4: You have this like joyous day for some people that
Speaker 4: are that are celebrating and excited to you know, to
Speaker 4: to bask and you know what that relationship has meant.
Speaker 4: But I think just talking about it with people just
Speaker 4: being present in whatever they're experiencing, you know, because if
Speaker 4: if you let sort of that emotion linger, right and
Speaker 4: it just kind of sits there, I think it does
Speaker 4: become this weight because it's uncomfortable and it's like almost like, oh,
Speaker 4: you see that person over there in the corner, like
Speaker 4: their dad died, don't talk to them like just I
Speaker 4: hope they leave soon and get so uncomfortable, But it's like,
Speaker 4: why not just go up and be like, hey, it
Speaker 4: looks like you're having a hard time, like are you
Speaker 4: doing okay? Giving space to like share what they're experiencing,
Speaker 4: even if it's just a small story about their dad.
Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting that this podcast came about because
Speaker 4: I was just talking to a couple of friends the
Speaker 4: other night. We had them over for dinner, and the
Speaker 4: wife was telling me the story about how year three
Speaker 4: was like the hardest for her. Interesting and she said, yeah.
Speaker 4: She said year one was like her dad was still
Speaker 4: with her, like the memories were there. She still felt
Speaker 4: kind of fresh and in the relationship. Year two was
Speaker 4: kind of more of a grief year for her, of
Speaker 4: just acknowledging the loss. And then she said, the year
Speaker 4: three anniversary hit and it was like the bomb dropped.
Speaker 4: It was like time had moved on. He wasn't there.
Speaker 4: And I said, what did you really want people to
Speaker 4: do for you? Like, what were you experiencing that was
Speaker 4: you know, that was good and bad? And that's why
Speaker 4: she said, she said, people just sort of like avoided
Speaker 4: her like a pariah. It was like they didn't want
Speaker 4: to talk about it. It was uncomfortable. Her family members
Speaker 4: were kind of like, well, you should be over this
Speaker 4: by now. It's like three years, right, and like your
Speaker 4: family members said that, and then, you know, we had
Speaker 4: talked about what she did when that first Father's Day
Speaker 4: came up, and she said she had a little ritual
Speaker 4: about it, right, She had her own little thing where
Speaker 4: she had his ashes in a box and she kind
Speaker 4: of just sat with him and had a little moment
Speaker 4: of sort of peace and communication with him and was
Speaker 4: able to move on. So, you know, I think it's
Speaker 4: just being with people, you know, and just kind of
Speaker 4: sitting in that emotion with him and not trying to
Speaker 4: say the right thing, not trying to fix it or
Speaker 4: make the emotion stop, but just just letting them experience
Speaker 4: what they need to experience.
Speaker 3: What do you think they totally Yeah, I think, And
Speaker 3: you know, I also understand that a lot of people
Speaker 3: come at it from like a fear of hurting you more.
Speaker 2: They think if they bring.
Speaker 3: This up like then that's just gonna send you into
Speaker 3: a dark place, and they don't want to put you
Speaker 3: in a dark place. But maybe that first question is like, hey,
Speaker 3: do you want to talk about this, because if you do,
Speaker 3: I'm here for you.
Speaker 2: Or do you want to, like, you know, go ignore it.
Speaker 3: Do you want to go do something totally different and
Speaker 3: that community. Like I have a friend who just lost
Speaker 3: her dad suddenly and horribly, and I'm so proud of her.
Speaker 3: Like I've kind of talked to her and she's decided
Speaker 3: on Father's Day she's going to get together with a
Speaker 3: group of people who she knows all have these dad
Speaker 3: issues and they're going to go do something together and
Speaker 3: the kind of just create a whole outing together out
Speaker 3: of it. But yeah, they're you know, I think making
Speaker 3: space for all the different complex things because now that
Speaker 3: you're in my life, Chris Harrison and Chris Taylor, I'm
Speaker 3: glad you're in our lives now too, But now that
Speaker 3: you're in my life, babe, like I want to celebrate
Speaker 3: you as a dad and we have the kids and
Speaker 3: so that's kind of a new joy that's been brought in.
Speaker 3: But I've had thoughts in my own mind of like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't want to bring you down on this day
Speaker 3: and I don't want to not make.
Speaker 2: This day about you. Because it is.
Speaker 3: But of course I miss my dad and I do
Speaker 3: want to talk about my dad. And I've literally said
Speaker 3: to my Chris, I want to talk about my dad
Speaker 3: and Father's Day. I've made that super clear, Like I
Speaker 3: want you to ask about him. I want to raise
Speaker 3: a glass and toast to him at night, even if
Speaker 3: it is kind of a sad moment, because I don't
Speaker 3: want to forget him.
Speaker 2: At the same time, I don't want to be again
Speaker 2: a bummer on the day.
Speaker 3: But like I love what you said, Chris Taylor about
Speaker 3: the space for all the different emotions.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. So my story when I
Speaker 4: was about a year old, my dad walked out in
Speaker 4: her family and just kind of disappeared off the face
Speaker 4: of the earth. So for you know, gosh, thirty years
Speaker 4: of my life, Father's Day was a foreign concept. People
Speaker 4: would celebrate it, and all it really meant to me
Speaker 4: when I was a teenager was my friends were busy
Speaker 4: doing something and I couldn't hang out with them. It
Speaker 4: was sort of inconvenience, right. It's like a really interesting experience.
Speaker 4: And then when I became a dad, I've got two kids,
Speaker 4: it was like this total flip where now there's like
Speaker 4: this energy coming at me for Father's Day and it's
Speaker 4: like whoa, Like what do I do with that?
Speaker 1: Interesting?
Speaker 4: Yeah? So's it's an interesting you know, sort of one
Speaker 4: eighty and like, you know, sort of you have this
Speaker 4: absent you know, sort of experience and then all of
Speaker 4: a sudden you're thrust into sort of the spotlight of it.
Speaker 4: So you know, obviously that's a lot different than sort
Speaker 4: of navigating you know, the grief of it.
Speaker 1: But that dichotomy is interesting for someone who it was
Speaker 1: almost something.
Speaker 2: Like never a thing something you lamented, yeah.
Speaker 1: And probably was like, oh, please go buy, please go buy.
Speaker 1: And now you're you, you know, being a dad. How
Speaker 1: old are your kids?
Speaker 4: So they're almost eleven and almost nine.
Speaker 1: So okay, yeah, so you're in this and it's a
Speaker 1: great that's a great stage of life. And so to
Speaker 1: have that moment now where you want them to be
Speaker 1: present and maybe it just gives you better perspective on
Speaker 1: what you want from it and what.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, so, you know, and it's just those
Speaker 4: mornings of fathers, say, you get love bombed, right, It's
Speaker 4: like they just jump on you and mob you and
Speaker 4: it's like cards and this and that yeah, it's like,
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, Okay, what am I supposed to do
Speaker 4: with this? And then they always ask like, what do
Speaker 4: you want to do? And I'm like, I really want
Speaker 4: to just kind of be by myself and like sit
Speaker 4: in some quiet But it's like the energy of what
Speaker 4: everybody else wants from you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can I say I just want to go watch
Speaker 1: the US open and disappear for six hours exactly? Okay,
Speaker 1: what I really want to do is take you guys
Speaker 1: to the park, take you to get ice cream, and
Speaker 1: then barbecue for you tonight. That's what I really wanted
Speaker 1: to do, and.
Speaker 4: Then separate the bickering about twenty times in between all that.
Speaker 1: You know, Father's Day is not during the school year,
Speaker 1: so you don't get the cute things that all the
Speaker 1: teachers make you, you know, put together for your moms
Speaker 1: and dad. You know, the moms kind of get like
Speaker 1: talk about love bomb moms get really love bombed. Then
Speaker 1: Father's Day is kind of like, oh yeah, it's in
Speaker 1: the middle of June. What do you want to do?
Speaker 4: Well, it's funny he said that just as a side
Speaker 4: I was I was watching a reel or something. There
Speaker 4: was a comedian and you know, apologize for quoting him
Speaker 4: and not knowing who the comedian was. But he was
Speaker 4: talking about how Father's Day was the twentieth most celebrated
Speaker 4: holiday in the United States and mother Day is the
Speaker 4: second after Christmas, and he was like, I can't even
Speaker 4: think of nineteen other holidays, right, And You're like You're like, yeah,
Speaker 4: like what like like Canadian boxing days?
Speaker 1: Like we behind the groundhog? We are we losing to
Speaker 1: PUCKSATONI Phil damn it.
Speaker 4: I mean I know as a person, I'm far less
Speaker 4: interesting than a groundhog. So I'll take the l on that.
Speaker 1: One thing that Lauren has taught me. And I think
Speaker 1: this would go to a dad who walked out on
Speaker 1: his family, abusive dat, whatever it is. It's being cognizant
Speaker 1: of that as a friend. If you know somebody, what
Speaker 1: is your advice to people to, you know, take that
Speaker 1: just reach out on Father's Day or just maybe just
Speaker 1: this whole week reach out. Just know, Hey, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about you, and however you want to do this, I'm
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know, if you knew the dad,
Speaker 4: I think it's just maybe reaching out and sharing a story. Hey,
Speaker 4: I was thinking about your dad today and I remember,
Speaker 4: you know, this conversation I had with him, or this
Speaker 4: thing that he taught me, or this really cool experience
Speaker 4: we had together. And I think that just gives permission
Speaker 4: for the other person to lean in and say like,
Speaker 4: it's okay to share back. And if you kind of
Speaker 4: lean in and share something positive, you know, you do
Speaker 4: create a little bit more of a positive energy about it,
Speaker 4: so there can be that more uplifting share rather than
Speaker 4: the you know, the sadness of the loss and just
Speaker 4: kind of sitting in the grief. You know, although I
Speaker 4: think sometimes when that when that grief gets triggered again,
Speaker 4: it is kind of sitting with people and being like, hey,
Speaker 4: it's okay, it's okay to feel that loss and sit
Speaker 4: in the sadness for a little while. But sometimes I
Speaker 4: think asking too, like what is it that we can
Speaker 4: do together to kind of just honor your dad in
Speaker 4: this moment, or you know, is there anything that he
Speaker 4: really enjoyed that we could go out and do together
Speaker 4: to this, you know, for this day, like golfing or
Speaker 4: you know, going and catching a certain movie or listening
Speaker 4: to some live music or something.
Speaker 3: Chris, I love what you just said about making it
Speaker 3: an uplifting share because I hate this and I don't
Speaker 3: want to put this pressure on people. But it's interesting
Speaker 3: sometimes when people text me, and again, I know their
Speaker 3: hearts in the right place.
Speaker 2: But like.
Speaker 3: My friends will sometimes text me on like the anniversary
Speaker 3: of my losing my dad, And what's interesting is how
Speaker 3: much that's changed for me over the years. In the
Speaker 3: first few years, I really appreciated that they did it,
Speaker 3: But now I've been able to like forget that day
Speaker 3: a little bit more, and I actually need to tell them, Hey,
Speaker 3: now when you text me on it, you just like
Speaker 3: remind me, oh, dear, like I'm glad that I forgot
Speaker 3: that day. So now it's sort of oh, now that
Speaker 3: was just hairminder. This was a horrible day, but like
Speaker 3: making it an uplifting Okay. You know, God, I always
Speaker 3: think of your dad and I see this thing or
Speaker 3: remember when your dad did this. That's such a good
Speaker 3: way to start it from a positive note.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because like you said, it just pushes you in
Speaker 4: the grief right then you just have to kind of
Speaker 4: sit in it. It activates all that emotion. You know,
Speaker 4: some of it's obviously going to be unresolved, and then
Speaker 4: what do you do with that, then that can corrupt
Speaker 4: sort of the rest of the day and you're just thinking, gosh,
Speaker 4: I just wanted to celebrate Chris Harrison as a dad,
Speaker 4: and now I'm just kind of sad in the corner,
Speaker 4: thinking of like great, thanks friends for being good friends,
Speaker 4: but maybe not knowing the best way to support. And
Speaker 4: you know, I think sometimes you know, in in anticipation
Speaker 4: of those moments, right maybe a month or two before,
Speaker 4: when things are kind of calm and the emotion is low,
Speaker 4: you know, just establishing some boundaries with those friends and
Speaker 4: just reaching out and saying like, hey, you know, I
Speaker 4: know you love to text me on that day. I'm
Speaker 4: really trying to kind of like recreate an experience on
Speaker 4: that day of something that's not as sort of sad
Speaker 4: or not as a as a constant reminder. And I
Speaker 4: love you guys for loving me in the way that
Speaker 4: you do, but I really need to be loved on
Speaker 4: that day in this way and real kind of like
Speaker 4: being able to create that roadmap form.
Speaker 1: Well I could see it. I was, you know, when
Speaker 1: I hear your story again, I thought think, I think
Speaker 1: I thought of all these scenarios and then I, you know,
Speaker 1: hear your story and I think, wow, that really would
Speaker 1: be a lot, and I think it's maybe important to
Speaker 1: have that, you know, that talk with your spouse with
Speaker 1: the mom of like, hey, this is a bittersweet day
Speaker 1: for me, Like yeah, I'm you know, when the kids
Speaker 1: love bombing and they give me the letters and the
Speaker 1: bad tie, like that's all great, but just know there's
Speaker 1: also a melancholy side to this to me, and like
Speaker 1: I might kind of go in and out today, so
Speaker 1: just you know, letting them be aware of like, this
Speaker 1: is also a weird day for me. But I'm also
Speaker 1: excited if that If that makes sense to you, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, I think having that talk and giving yourself
Speaker 1: that grace to feel all those things is important.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, And you know, I've learned so much
Speaker 4: through the years of the therapist too. I mean, the
Speaker 4: influence of trauma in these relationships, right, I think you
Speaker 4: touched on it earlier. Just an abusive dad situation where
Speaker 4: the word dad can activate you know, sort of PTSD
Speaker 4: like responses and so it can actually really emotionally destabilizing
Speaker 4: for people. But you know, I also think of you know,
Speaker 4: the dads that aren't the dads that kind of became
Speaker 4: the dads, the sort of the fill ins, right, you know,
Speaker 4: the stepdads. But you know also these people that are
Speaker 4: out there that just see the kid that's like with
Speaker 4: the single mom and they just step in and they're like,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm going to be you know, sort of
Speaker 4: this role for you and those kids don't necessarily have
Speaker 4: like a Father's Day, and I think giving permission, maybe
Speaker 4: there even just needs to be like a separate day
Speaker 4: for those like, you know, sort of caretaker men that
Speaker 4: come in and just are supportive, because I know my
Speaker 4: wife had that experience with when she was young, her
Speaker 4: dad was kind of in and out, and she had
Speaker 4: a guy that was like, hey, hop in the car,
Speaker 4: we're going to go to the roll of a rink,
Speaker 4: We're going to listen to music. He was really close
Speaker 4: to her mom, and that really I think became, you know,
Speaker 4: what was dad for her. But she could never really
Speaker 4: reach out to him on Father's Day and say like,
Speaker 4: hey dad, because he would be weird. But you know,
Speaker 4: and so as she's gotten older, we've had conversations about
Speaker 4: like maybe you should honor that reallyationship a little bit
Speaker 4: more in a dad kind of way. But again, another
Speaker 4: layer of like, gosh, nothing's as simple as we'd.
Speaker 1: Like it to be, you know, not as black and
Speaker 1: white as it used to be. You know, you bring
Speaker 1: up a good point, and I do want if nothing
Speaker 1: else from Father's Day, like you said, And it's not
Speaker 1: just Dad, it's not just fathers. It's just good strong
Speaker 1: men who are good leaders, good communicators. They look out
Speaker 1: for others. They've maybe taken on a role that they
Speaker 1: weren't asked for of just helping you know, kids grow
Speaker 1: up to be better humans. And whether that was your coach,
Speaker 1: a professor, could be you know, a priest, a rabbi.
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of good men stand up
Speaker 1: in those roles. And I do think this is a
Speaker 1: good celebration of all of that. And because a lot
Speaker 1: of people take on those roles that you're right and
Speaker 1: they're not exactly the quote unquote dad.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I love that. That's that strong male presence,
Speaker 4: you know. I mean I was listening to some of
Speaker 4: the other day talking. I've heard this through the years,
Speaker 4: but it's like, you know, like, well, I took my
Speaker 4: kids to the park, right, It's like that's not an accomplishment,
Speaker 4: that's just being a parent.
Speaker 1: You know, the dad that's like I'm I'm babysitting the
Speaker 1: kids tonight. It's like no, no, no, they're yours.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're you're the responsibility you took on. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: there's those dads out there that are just those super
Speaker 4: dads that like never a complaint, will do everything and anything,
Speaker 4: and you know, set sort of that role model for
Speaker 4: I think what we should all strive to be. And
Speaker 4: I think, you know, for those you know, and maybe
Speaker 4: this speaks a little bit more to your experience with
Speaker 4: your dad to really reach out and just you know,
Speaker 4: at whatever age you are, really love bomb them, you know,
Speaker 4: in a healthy way to just say, like, you know,
Speaker 4: as I've gotten older and reflect back on my childhood, gosh,
Speaker 4: like you are an amazing dad. Like I look in
Speaker 4: the world now and I see, you know, the loss
Speaker 4: and the sadness and so much that isn't and I
Speaker 4: just think, Wow, how much I actually had And those
Speaker 4: are really powerful.
Speaker 2: Moments, Chris, You've said so much that's going to stick
Speaker 2: with me.
Speaker 3: I think the biggest thing is just like the yeah,
Speaker 3: all the different because we grow up and you see
Speaker 3: the commercials and you see the greeting cards and on
Speaker 3: the one hand, that is great, but what we're really
Speaker 3: celebrating is the goal, like the goal of like a man,
Speaker 3: you know, being a great father to his kids. But
Speaker 3: often that is like, but what that doesn't do is
Speaker 3: acknowledge all the steps towards that goal, like the journey
Speaker 3: that everybody's on to find that person or maybe you
Speaker 3: don't have that person and maybe you'll become that person.
Speaker 3: So I love the idea, you know, I love Father's
Speaker 3: Day and that it celebrates that, but just being aware
Speaker 3: that not everybody has that. I mean, one thing I
Speaker 3: want to ask, if I can steal a little bit
Speaker 3: of your therapy for a minute, is like I said,
Speaker 3: I'm so far out from this, but if you know
Speaker 3: somebody who like, you know, I don't maybe they just
Speaker 3: lost their dad, they're kind of fresher in the trauma,
Speaker 3: or maybe you've just learned that someone is like yourself
Speaker 3: and like, like I just learned that you you know,
Speaker 3: grew up without a dad. What do you advise to
Speaker 3: those people who are really fresh in their trauma, or
Speaker 3: what do you advise to someone who like you've just
Speaker 3: learned that your friend's gone through something, and how you
Speaker 3: can support them.
Speaker 4: Now, Yeah, it's it's tricky. I mean, grief is just
Speaker 4: such a powerful emotion, you know. I think the first
Speaker 4: thing is not assuming that you know what somebody else
Speaker 4: is going through or what stage they're at in grief,
Speaker 4: because they might be in that super angry stage and
Speaker 4: you're coming in with that attuning to the sadness approach,
Speaker 4: and they're just like, I don't want any part of that.
Speaker 4: So sometimes it's just asking permission even like, hey, is
Speaker 4: it okay if I just kind of bring something up
Speaker 4: or I just wanted to mention to you that I'm
Speaker 4: here for you, and I don't really know what you need,
Speaker 4: but if you do need anything, like I'm here because
Speaker 4: you know, when we experience loss, all you hear is
Speaker 4: the sort of I'm sorry, I'm so sorry for your loss,
Speaker 4: my condolences, and I think we all know, like, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's a courtesy, but it's like, what does that even mean?
Speaker 4: You're like, okay, you know, am I even sorry right now?
Speaker 4: I don't even know what I feel. I'm like so
Speaker 4: in the throes of this just mixing pot you know,
Speaker 4: of emotion that when I think of like a singular emotion,
Speaker 4: it just sort of doesn't compute. So I think just
Speaker 4: asking permission, leaning in sort of exploring where they are
Speaker 4: at first before making any sort of assumptions of the
Speaker 4: type of support they might need. You know, I think
Speaker 4: when people are sort of in that, you know, early stages,
Speaker 4: it's just time spent with people that means the most.
Speaker 4: So I'm always just like, hey, I'm going to go
Speaker 4: pick up my friend. I'm going to say, hey, we're
Speaker 4: going out to grab a cup of coffee, or we're
Speaker 4: just going to go for a walk in the park.
Speaker 4: You don't even need to talk. I just want to
Speaker 4: be around you. And it's not even about the grief, right,
Speaker 4: It's just about the human connection to be present with them,
Speaker 4: to say you're loved. I don't know what you're going through.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to attempt to understand. But then when
Speaker 4: you're in presence with somebody, I think generally people will
Speaker 4: go to a place where they'll start talking about the
Speaker 4: things that they need to talk about.
Speaker 1: Awesome, Chris, thank you so much for your time. I
Speaker 1: think it was really important to have this show today,
Speaker 1: And you know, I want to celebrate dads, but I
Speaker 1: also want to let everybody know that we these holidays
Speaker 1: are so nuanced and these there's such a wide spectrum
Speaker 1: of how we need to approach these days. So I
Speaker 1: truly appreciate the knowledge and the expertise.
Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, thanks for having me on. I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 1: And Happy Father's Day to you as as to you and.
Speaker 4: You know, Lauren, try not to, you know, bring it
Speaker 4: down too much. For Chris, he does buy the ice
Speaker 4: cream and take the kid. He's reached the bar.
Speaker 2: It's always a working Father's Day for him.
Speaker 3: I try to do something for him and I'm like,
Speaker 3: what do you want to do, and He's like, I
Speaker 3: want a girl.
Speaker 2: Steaks and watch golf.
Speaker 3: So I end up getting a great relaxing day on
Speaker 3: Father's Day.
Speaker 4: Honestly, everybody wins.
Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Chris, thank you us, take care.
Speaker 1: Guys my thanks to Chris, and Elsie, thank you for
Speaker 1: coming on. I really wanted to get your perspective on
Speaker 1: all this and Father's Day and this week. I think
Speaker 1: a lot about my dad. Happy Father's Day, Steve Harrison,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot about your dad, and I'm
Speaker 1: grateful for, you know, the dad he was and the
Speaker 1: kids that he left and the work he did before
Speaker 1: he left us, and so happy Father's Day to Gary
Speaker 1: Zema as well.
Speaker 3: Our love, yes, and thank you for doing this. It
Speaker 3: meantal heft tomy that you wanted to do this episode
Speaker 3: of the podcast, and I see how much you've taken
Speaker 3: in what I've said over the years. Sending all of
Speaker 3: our love to anybody who is having that type of
Speaker 3: day where it's not necessarily the grilling and golfing and
Speaker 3: happy all day day. Whether you had a dad who
Speaker 3: disappointed you, or you never had a dad at all,
Speaker 3: or you had a dad you loved and lost, or
Speaker 3: you had a dad who you hated.
Speaker 2: And lost, or who made you sad and lost.
Speaker 3: There's so many different types of father experiences that we
Speaker 3: all have, and this day I hope encompasses all of
Speaker 3: them in moments of reflection, in moments of joy, in
Speaker 3: moments of welcoming all of the emotions that we all have.
Speaker 3: We're sending our love and support to you.
Speaker 1: Love you guys, Happy Father's Day. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
Speaker 1: dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time.