WEBVTT - Nontraditional Father’s Day 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:06.000 This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast. 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:09.520 Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.959 home office in Austin, Texas on a very special Father's 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.160 Day edition of the most dramatic podcast ever. And this 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:19.720 is an important podcast I wanted to do today because 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.440 there are these weeks of the year, well really all 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:28.040 holidays that hit differently for different people. Mother's Day, Father's 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:32.760 Day among them, because unfortunately, not everybody has their mom 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.120 and dad with them. And this is a perspective that 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.000 I have really gained thanks to my first guest today, 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:39.199 Lauren Zema. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.920 Oh wow, guests, Well, I mean. 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.239 Really today's I have two very special guests day. One 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.960 of them is you and then another is a doctor 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.800 Chris Taylor, who is you know, has twenty years of 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:57.760 experience in therapy and in especially twenty years experience in 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:02.400 parent teen expert and helping families. And what I wanted 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.880 to really dive into today because you gave me this 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.960 amazing perspective once we got married, was you know, Father's 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:13.000 Day hits different. Your father, Gary Zema, an amazing dad 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.440 to three beautiful children, is no longer with us, and 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:23.040 so these days these weeks are so different for you. 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.199 Yeah, I actually did a little video for Experience Camps 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.920 where I volunteer about this weekend because we talk about 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.560 it a lot in the grief community, because yeah it 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:38.400 you know, you see a Father's Day card display and 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.600 that's like this little kind of mini punch to the gut, 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:43.320 you know, and years ago for me, it was a 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.840 bigger punch to the gut. Like one thing that I 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:47.720 do want to say and while and it makes me 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:51.720 excited to have this expert come on, is because I'm 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.280 a little bit removed from like those first years. I mean, 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.120 I lost my dad almost fifteen years ago now, and 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.160 from a positive perspective and not from a viewpoint of 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.960 like forgetting about your person. I want to tell grieving 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:07.240 people it gets better. Time does help. But I think 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.800 he'll be good to help remind us and give pointers 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.680 for if you're like fresher into loss and loss can 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:14.720 also be you know, I don't know, was your dad 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:15.840 never in your life? 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:17.640 Was that person? You know? 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:19.720 Did you never know your dad because then Father's Day 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.400 hurts in a different way, or did your parents split 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.960 up and maybe now you're estranged or there's all kinds 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.440 of different loss and grief, and it does make these 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.520 holidays hit a little bit. So I have my ways 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.040 of dealing with it, which we can talk to with 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.040 him about. But let's bring him on because I want 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:39.280 to get into his expert opinions on all these different 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:40.720 types of loss and how to navigate on. 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:45.560 Chris Taylor twenty years of experience, passionate about helping families. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:50.639 He's also an accomplished author speaker, and he joins us now. 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:51.800 Chris, thanks for being with us. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.120 I feel like you might be the easiest guest name 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.239 to remember we've ever had, because we have my Chris 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.720 here and his daughter's name is Taylor. So thank you 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:01.560 for your convenience and your expertise. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.000 Yeah, no, awesome. I always joke I've never met a 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:04.720 Chris I didn't like. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.919 So well, it's weird how handsome we all are. 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.560 I feel like that's true, and I think we're like, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.160 what three fifths of the Avengers something like that. 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.160 That's true. I always lose out to Hymnsworth in the 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:17.160 favorite Chris category. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.280 I know in those polls they'll do like brackets and 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.720 I love you, babe, But Hamsworth does usually be check 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:22.720 and proud. 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.720 But anyway, Chris, thank you for joining us on a 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:29.440 very special Father's Day edition. And I wanted to kind 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.519 of dive in with you and with my beautiful wife, Lauren, 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.200 because she is really the one that's giving me perspective 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.839 on this. My dad is still alive, we still get 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.720 to talk, we're very close, we have a great relationship. 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.280 So my Father's Day experience has always been the same. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:49.840 It's that traditional, you know, Hallmark edition. But as Lauren 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:51.960 has taught me and I've learned even more, it's not 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:53.760 like that for everybody. And so I wanted to bring 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:55.760 you on to talk just about that that there are 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.760 very different, wild versions of Father's Day. 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.520 Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, Lauren, you know, I'm 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.080 sorry to hear about your father's death obviously, and you 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:07.560 know you've had a lot of years to you know, 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.600 sort of acclimate to that. But you know, absenteeism in 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.840 father's and abandonment, and you know, so death is just 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.479 one part of this sort of overall experience. You know, 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.039 I think it's just giving people permission to experience all 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.719 that it is and not sort of predefining because like 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:26.159 you said, I think we all go in It's like 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.720 Father's Day. You know, we're going to get that barbecue set, 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.600 We're going to get the car wax kit. Right, But 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:35.800 there's people out there that are like, I have no 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.520 frame of reference for what even Father's Day is, and 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:40.680 they just treat it like every other day. And then 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:42.560 you layer on when you've had a dad and you've 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.039 experienced death. I mean, that's just so painful because each 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.280 year represents just time moving on and you know that 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.200 lack of that presence in life so totally. 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.440 And I was just saying you probably couldn't hear before, Chris, 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:56.760 but yeah, there's all sorts of different types of loss 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.760 or people who never even had a father. And I 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:01.880 think think you just hit on something important, which is 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.960 I find this and I'd love your opinion on like 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:06.640 what to say to people or how to explain this 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.920 to people. But the problem is you become the bummer, right, 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.159 Like if I'm not super happy on Father's Day, or 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.360 if I'm like having a moment where I'm crying or 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.920 missing my dad, then I'm bringing the mood down and 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.400 people like not only maybe feel uncomfortable, but they don't 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.359 know what to do or say, and they sort of 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.279 feel like you're killing the vibe. What's your advice to 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.200 people on how they can help support I guess just 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:32.640 first from an aspect maybe of people who have lost 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.040 a father, but how they can support someone who for them, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.839 Father's Day is maybe a bit of a grief moment 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.280 or maybe even more so, like it's gotten better for 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.799 me over the years, but earlier on God, I would 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.000 see an advert like a commercial for something for Father's Day, 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.599 like home Depot doing Father's Day, and that could potentially 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:51.880 put me in tears. 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.320 Yeah, you know, it's so hard. I mean one, I 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.560 think it's giving space for human emotion. I mean emotion. 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.839 It makes people uncomfortable, right, and so I get it. 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.320 You have this like joyous day for some people that 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.560 are that are celebrating and excited to you know, to 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.160 to bask and you know what that relationship has meant. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.479 But I think just talking about it with people just 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:18.280 being present in whatever they're experiencing, you know, because if 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.640 if you let sort of that emotion linger, right and 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:22.320 it just kind of sits there, I think it does 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.400 become this weight because it's uncomfortable and it's like almost like, oh, 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.279 you see that person over there in the corner, like 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:30.000 their dad died, don't talk to them like just I 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.640 hope they leave soon and get so uncomfortable, But it's like, 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:34.240 why not just go up and be like, hey, it 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:35.919 looks like you're having a hard time, like are you 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.599 doing okay? Giving space to like share what they're experiencing, 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.760 even if it's just a small story about their dad. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.560 You know, it's interesting that this podcast came about because 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.880 I was just talking to a couple of friends the 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.000 other night. We had them over for dinner, and the 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.960 wife was telling me the story about how year three 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.279 was like the hardest for her. Interesting and she said, yeah. 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.440 She said year one was like her dad was still 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.599 with her, like the memories were there. She still felt 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.880 kind of fresh and in the relationship. Year two was 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:06.640 kind of more of a grief year for her, of 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:08.840 just acknowledging the loss. And then she said, the year 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.520 three anniversary hit and it was like the bomb dropped. 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:13.880 It was like time had moved on. He wasn't there. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.200 And I said, what did you really want people to 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.960 do for you? Like, what were you experiencing that was 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.360 you know, that was good and bad? And that's why 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.480 she said, she said, people just sort of like avoided 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.720 her like a pariah. It was like they didn't want 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:27.800 to talk about it. It was uncomfortable. Her family members 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:29.040 were kind of like, well, you should be over this 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.520 by now. It's like three years, right, and like your 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.080 family members said that, and then, you know, we had 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.880 talked about what she did when that first Father's Day 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.640 came up, and she said she had a little ritual 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:42.960 about it, right, She had her own little thing where 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.120 she had his ashes in a box and she kind 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.040 of just sat with him and had a little moment 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.240 of sort of peace and communication with him and was 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.920 able to move on. So, you know, I think it's 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.440 just being with people, you know, and just kind of 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:57.920 sitting in that emotion with him and not trying to 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.800 say the right thing, not trying to fix it or 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:04.400 make the emotion stop, but just just letting them experience 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:05.520 what they need to experience. 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.920 What do you think they totally Yeah, I think, And 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:10.920 you know, I also understand that a lot of people 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.520 come at it from like a fear of hurting you more. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:15.440 They think if they bring. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.600 This up like then that's just gonna send you into 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:20.080 a dark place, and they don't want to put you 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.920 in a dark place. But maybe that first question is like, hey, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.160 do you want to talk about this, because if you do, 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:27.080 I'm here for you. 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:29.920 Or do you want to, like, you know, go ignore it. 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.319 Do you want to go do something totally different and 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.440 that community. Like I have a friend who just lost 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:41.319 her dad suddenly and horribly, and I'm so proud of her. 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.480 Like I've kind of talked to her and she's decided 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.200 on Father's Day she's going to get together with a 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.160 group of people who she knows all have these dad 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.680 issues and they're going to go do something together and 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.880 the kind of just create a whole outing together out 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.920 of it. But yeah, they're you know, I think making 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.360 space for all the different complex things because now that 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.160 you're in my life, Chris Harrison and Chris Taylor, I'm 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:05.840 glad you're in our lives now too, But now that 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:07.880 you're in my life, babe, like I want to celebrate 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.160 you as a dad and we have the kids and 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.320 so that's kind of a new joy that's been brought in. 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.200 But I've had thoughts in my own mind of like, well, 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.960 I don't want to bring you down on this day 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:19.120 and I don't want to not make. 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:20.480 This day about you. Because it is. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.199 But of course I miss my dad and I do 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.440 want to talk about my dad. And I've literally said 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.560 to my Chris, I want to talk about my dad 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.440 and Father's Day. I've made that super clear, Like I 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:33.560 want you to ask about him. I want to raise 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:35.800 a glass and toast to him at night, even if 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.959 it is kind of a sad moment, because I don't 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:39.679 want to forget him. 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.520 At the same time, I don't want to be again 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:43.600 a bummer on the day. 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.760 But like I love what you said, Chris Taylor about 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:49.280 the space for all the different emotions. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.320 Yeah, you know, it's interesting. So my story when I 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.000 was about a year old, my dad walked out in 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:56.960 her family and just kind of disappeared off the face 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.720 of the earth. So for you know, gosh, thirty years 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.960 of my life, Father's Day was a foreign concept. People 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:05.880 would celebrate it, and all it really meant to me 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.319 when I was a teenager was my friends were busy 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:10.160 doing something and I couldn't hang out with them. It 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:14.120 was sort of inconvenience, right. It's like a really interesting experience. 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.840 And then when I became a dad, I've got two kids, 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.680 it was like this total flip where now there's like 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.160 this energy coming at me for Father's Day and it's 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.000 like whoa, Like what do I do with that? 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:25.960 Interesting? 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.840 Yeah? So's it's an interesting you know, sort of one 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.400 eighty and like, you know, sort of you have this 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.599 absent you know, sort of experience and then all of 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.040 a sudden you're thrust into sort of the spotlight of it. 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.880 So you know, obviously that's a lot different than sort 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:40.680 of navigating you know, the grief of it. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.680 But that dichotomy is interesting for someone who it was 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.040 almost something. 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.800 Like never a thing something you lamented, yeah. 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:49.679 And probably was like, oh, please go buy, please go buy. 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.360 And now you're you, you know, being a dad. How 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:53.040 old are your kids? 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.800 So they're almost eleven and almost nine. 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:57.640 So okay, yeah, so you're in this and it's a 0:10:57.679 --> 0:10:59.800 great that's a great stage of life. And so to 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.360 have that moment now where you want them to be 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.319 present and maybe it just gives you better perspective on 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:07.520 what you want from it and what. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.000 Yeah, I think, so, you know, and it's just those 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.719 mornings of fathers, say, you get love bombed, right, It's 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.440 like they just jump on you and mob you and 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.000 it's like cards and this and that yeah, it's like, 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:18.800 oh my gosh, Okay, what am I supposed to do 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:20.200 with this? And then they always ask like, what do 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.400 you want to do? And I'm like, I really want 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.800 to just kind of be by myself and like sit 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.440 in some quiet But it's like the energy of what 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:28.760 everybody else wants from you. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:30.720 Yeah, can I say I just want to go watch 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.240 the US open and disappear for six hours exactly? Okay, 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:35.840 what I really want to do is take you guys 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.320 to the park, take you to get ice cream, and 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.559 then barbecue for you tonight. That's what I really wanted 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:40.960 to do, and. 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:44.200 Then separate the bickering about twenty times in between all that. 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.000 You know, Father's Day is not during the school year, 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.640 so you don't get the cute things that all the 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.000 teachers make you, you know, put together for your moms 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.000 and dad. You know, the moms kind of get like 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.160 talk about love bomb moms get really love bombed. Then 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.280 Father's Day is kind of like, oh yeah, it's in 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.200 the middle of June. What do you want to do? 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.840 Well, it's funny he said that just as a side 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:07.640 I was I was watching a reel or something. There 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.200 was a comedian and you know, apologize for quoting him 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.760 and not knowing who the comedian was. But he was 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.960 talking about how Father's Day was the twentieth most celebrated 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.480 holiday in the United States and mother Day is the 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.280 second after Christmas, and he was like, I can't even 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:28.120 think of nineteen other holidays, right, And You're like You're like, yeah, 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.920 like what like like Canadian boxing days? 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.880 Like we behind the groundhog? We are we losing to 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.319 PUCKSATONI Phil damn it. 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:38.280 I mean I know as a person, I'm far less 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.679 interesting than a groundhog. So I'll take the l on that. 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:57.000 One thing that Lauren has taught me. And I think 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.760 this would go to a dad who walked out on 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:06.719 his family, abusive dat, whatever it is. It's being cognizant 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.520 of that as a friend. If you know somebody, what 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:11.960 is your advice to people to, you know, take that 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.360 just reach out on Father's Day or just maybe just 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.920 this whole week reach out. Just know, Hey, I'm thinking 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.680 about you, and however you want to do this, I'm 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:18.960 with you. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:21.520 Yeah, I think you know, if you knew the dad, 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.240 I think it's just maybe reaching out and sharing a story. Hey, 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.720 I was thinking about your dad today and I remember, 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.800 you know, this conversation I had with him, or this 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.240 thing that he taught me, or this really cool experience 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.560 we had together. And I think that just gives permission 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.200 for the other person to lean in and say like, 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.520 it's okay to share back. And if you kind of 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.120 lean in and share something positive, you know, you do 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.480 create a little bit more of a positive energy about it, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.560 so there can be that more uplifting share rather than 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.839 the you know, the sadness of the loss and just 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.280 kind of sitting in the grief. You know, although I 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.640 think sometimes when that when that grief gets triggered again, 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.480 it is kind of sitting with people and being like, hey, 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.960 it's okay, it's okay to feel that loss and sit 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.079 in the sadness for a little while. But sometimes I 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:02.960 think asking too, like what is it that we can 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:04.679 do together to kind of just honor your dad in 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:06.839 this moment, or you know, is there anything that he 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:08.679 really enjoyed that we could go out and do together 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.120 to this, you know, for this day, like golfing or 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.720 you know, going and catching a certain movie or listening 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:15.040 to some live music or something. 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.360 Chris, I love what you just said about making it 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.320 an uplifting share because I hate this and I don't 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.400 want to put this pressure on people. But it's interesting 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.680 sometimes when people text me, and again, I know their 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:28.920 hearts in the right place. 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:30.200 But like. 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.200 My friends will sometimes text me on like the anniversary 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.920 of my losing my dad, And what's interesting is how 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:38.960 much that's changed for me over the years. In the 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.280 first few years, I really appreciated that they did it, 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.000 But now I've been able to like forget that day 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.720 a little bit more, and I actually need to tell them, Hey, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:49.160 now when you text me on it, you just like 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.600 remind me, oh, dear, like I'm glad that I forgot 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.960 that day. So now it's sort of oh, now that 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.480 was just hairminder. This was a horrible day, but like 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.200 making it an uplifting Okay. You know, God, I always 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:03.840 think of your dad and I see this thing or 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:05.960 remember when your dad did this. That's such a good 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:07.760 way to start it from a positive note. 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:10.720 Yeah, because like you said, it just pushes you in 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.360 the grief right then you just have to kind of 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.880 sit in it. It activates all that emotion. You know, 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.120 some of it's obviously going to be unresolved, and then 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.160 what do you do with that, then that can corrupt 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.800 sort of the rest of the day and you're just thinking, gosh, 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.400 I just wanted to celebrate Chris Harrison as a dad, 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.120 and now I'm just kind of sad in the corner, 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.240 thinking of like great, thanks friends for being good friends, 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.600 but maybe not knowing the best way to support. And 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.320 you know, I think sometimes you know, in in anticipation 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.840 of those moments, right maybe a month or two before, 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.040 when things are kind of calm and the emotion is low, 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:42.960 you know, just establishing some boundaries with those friends and 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.440 just reaching out and saying like, hey, you know, I 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:45.920 know you love to text me on that day. I'm 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.320 really trying to kind of like recreate an experience on 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.240 that day of something that's not as sort of sad 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.600 or not as a as a constant reminder. And I 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.600 love you guys for loving me in the way that 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.160 you do, but I really need to be loved on 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.680 that day in this way and real kind of like 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.960 being able to create that roadmap form. 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:04.600 Well I could see it. I was, you know, when 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.960 I hear your story again, I thought think, I think 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.120 I thought of all these scenarios and then I, you know, 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.400 hear your story and I think, wow, that really would 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.560 be a lot, and I think it's maybe important to 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.640 have that, you know, that talk with your spouse with 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.360 the mom of like, hey, this is a bittersweet day 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.160 for me, Like yeah, I'm you know, when the kids 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:24.760 love bombing and they give me the letters and the 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.760 bad tie, like that's all great, but just know there's 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:29.680 also a melancholy side to this to me, and like 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.440 I might kind of go in and out today, so 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.200 just you know, letting them be aware of like, this 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.080 is also a weird day for me. But I'm also 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.320 excited if that If that makes sense to you, you know, 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.640 it's like, I think having that talk and giving yourself 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.280 that grace to feel all those things is important. 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.280 Yeah, I agree, And you know, I've learned so much 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.240 through the years of the therapist too. I mean, the 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.040 influence of trauma in these relationships, right, I think you 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.040 touched on it earlier. Just an abusive dad situation where 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.840 the word dad can activate you know, sort of PTSD 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.840 like responses and so it can actually really emotionally destabilizing 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.600 for people. But you know, I also think of you know, 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.159 the dads that aren't the dads that kind of became 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.679 the dads, the sort of the fill ins, right, you know, 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.639 the stepdads. But you know also these people that are 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.639 out there that just see the kid that's like with 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.760 the single mom and they just step in and they're like, 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.119 you know, I'm going to be you know, sort of 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.120 this role for you and those kids don't necessarily have 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.600 like a Father's Day, and I think giving permission, maybe 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.560 there even just needs to be like a separate day 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.399 for those like, you know, sort of caretaker men that 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.359 come in and just are supportive, because I know my 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.359 wife had that experience with when she was young, her 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.080 dad was kind of in and out, and she had 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:39.960 a guy that was like, hey, hop in the car, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:41.080 we're going to go to the roll of a rink, 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.040 We're going to listen to music. He was really close 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.520 to her mom, and that really I think became, you know, 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:49.320 what was dad for her. But she could never really 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.840 reach out to him on Father's Day and say like, 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:56.000 hey dad, because he would be weird. But you know, 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.520