1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to stuff I've 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: never told to your production of I Heart Radio. Okay, 3 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: I know for some people this is really annoying, but 4 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: we are moving in to fall and we're moving into 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: our Halloween s content season. We've been waiting for this 6 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: all year we have, and we've definitely already planned out 7 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: episodes two months ago. Absolutely, there's gonna be some fiction 8 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: we think, Oh my gosh, so exciting. I know. UM. 9 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: And we just did one on true crime and why 10 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: women loved true crime, and in that we talked about 11 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: serial killers briefly and why women in particular might love 12 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: are romantic size serial killers out of curiosity Because you 13 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: have more like experience in this world of like true 14 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: crime than I do. Do you prefer like the fictional 15 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: take on serial killers or do you prefer like the 16 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: movies that are like, I don't know, like Zodiac where 17 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: it's based on it but pretty fictionalized, or do you 18 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: prefer like the true crime UM documentary show. You know, 19 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: I've actually not watched too many based on true events 20 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: type of things. So when it comes to movies with 21 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: like especially right now, as we've noticed, big stars are 22 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: trying to portray these characters. I don't watch that, and 23 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because, yeah, it weir to 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: me out to see Zach Afron portraying a serial killer 25 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: from way back when and this level of like, I 26 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: get it, he like for him, it's a thing about 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: trying to be an actor and all of these things, 28 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: but for the person who casts him, it is very 29 00:01:54,640 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: much a super like Hollywood level of telling the story. 30 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: And I find that weirds me out a little bit 31 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: um and that's a whole different conversation. I would rather 32 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: see conversations about what they found and what they saw, 33 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: and like documentation and layouts of that. I think that's 34 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: why I love like Snapped, which is essentially just like 35 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: a play by play and has interviews with either victims 36 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: victims families, and that's it, Like, that's kind of what. 37 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: Of course, they have bad reenactment, and when I say bad, 38 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: I mean real bad reenactments in them, but at least 39 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: you get to hear from not only the police, not 40 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: only the detectives, but the family members who may have 41 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: been affected by it, so you can hear that level. 42 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: So that makes me feel a little better to watch 43 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: it in that realm than a whole completely dramatized version 44 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: of it, because I also know that that's one of 45 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: the big things, is the estate of oftentimes the perpetrator 46 00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: to get money. Yeah, it's really gross. Yeah, yeah, I 47 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: mean that's the consideration. I guess we didn't go too 48 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: deeply into this in our True Crime one, but the 49 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: kind of that monetizing of someone else's we talked about 50 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: it a little bit, but the monetizing of someone else's trauma, 51 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: and it does feel weird when you're not sure where 52 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: it's going and who were glorifying. I want to be fair, 53 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: some of the people who were involved, which were including 54 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: detectives and lawyers, they monitored, they made money off of it. Two. Yeah, absolutely, well, 55 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: I feel like in some of the less or less 56 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: or done is not the right. They're not bad, but 57 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: sometimes you can tell people who were affected by this 58 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: are like, oh, I can get money off of it, 59 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: and sometimes those are family members, right, And it's true. 60 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean, they're not wrong. It's just odd that we 61 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: do have this kind of environment of Okay, let's let's 62 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: make this in to entertainment for people to eat up 63 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: and discuss. And I always am like trying to remind yourself, yes, 64 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: there are real people behind this, and they did go 65 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: through something really traumatic. I once watched Zodiac on an 66 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: airplane and I foolishly thought it wouldn't be that violent 67 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: or graphic, and there was a kid sitting next to me, 68 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: and I remember having this moment of like, should I 69 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: turn this off? Like these people are getting murdered and 70 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: there's like an eight year old child. Oh no, But 71 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that strange? Like can you watch it 72 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: on a plane? Um, just something to have on in 73 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:51,559 Speaker 1: the background, right, Yeah, yeah, I do find it hard. 74 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: I think even fictionalized cases. I say that as if 75 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: that's somehow better. It's not necessarily, but I even then 76 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: because I feel like I have a hard line of 77 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: I can watch horror. I love horror, but I can 78 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: tell myself this didn't really happen, right, And I struggle 79 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: with things where I'm like, oh god, I mean, yeah, 80 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: you're not wrong, because I don't typically watch movies, full 81 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: fledged movies with Hollywood actors and like high revenue or 82 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: how high cost productions because and this may be a 83 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: prime example. Um, so, once upon a time in Hollywood 84 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: they depicted things that actually happened. And that's just a 85 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: whole new level of like what just having like it 86 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: being retold to you and you kind of not necessarily 87 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: even like I can't get into anything that tells me 88 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: too many details, like why would you want to read that? 89 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: You don't, I don't need to read that. I just 90 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: don't want to know. Gloss it over, tell me what happens, 91 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: move on. But to have a full fledged re enactment 92 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: of the violent events to me seems like in such 93 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: poor taste. And they glorified this and a lot and 94 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: maybe they maybe some of these movies didn't do it, 95 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: but I know that the Sharon Tate Martyr was kind 96 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: of re enacted and once upon a time in Hollywood. 97 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: Of course, there's other things wrong with that movie, and 98 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: racism and sexism and all of that, including but just 99 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: many of those things, Like it's kind of why would 100 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: you do that? There was no point to that, but 101 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: that they do it to get that viewership. Yeah, yeah, well, 102 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: And I was thinking about that when we were discussing 103 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: in that episode of like there's that line of like 104 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: sex sells and violent cells and the people who are 105 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: now making those TikTok videos. I think it's actually really clever. 106 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: And if you haven't heard this episode yet, we were 107 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: just talking about usually women we were making TikTok videos 108 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: who are also makeup videos. But it's like a really 109 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: clever combination of combining makeup videos with maybe you would 110 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 1: be listening to a podcast in the background, but also 111 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: giving you like a way to separate yourself out. But 112 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: there are instances like that where it just feels so clear, 113 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: or that you're just pretty callously thinking, oh, this will 114 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: this will sell, or like you take this murder of 115 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: this woman and this will sell. All of that. We 116 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: did want to bring back some of our classic episodes 117 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: that we did on women who are serial killers and 118 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: our fascination with them, our cultural fascination with them. So 119 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: please enjoy part one of this two part classic look 120 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: at women who are serial Killers. Hey, this is Annie 121 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: and Samantha. I welcome to stuff I never told your 122 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: protection of I Heart Radio's House networks. Today we are 123 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: tackling a topic that I think a lot of you 124 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: probably are you familiar with because we were just discussing 125 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: before we started. There's so many podcasts, so many podcasts 126 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: dedicated to serial killers. Yes, and even some two female 127 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: serial killers. UM. And I was so excited when we 128 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: were talking about, you know, Salween time we need to 129 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: do things, and I'm like, well, one of the things 130 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: I'm interested in our female serial killers because I find 131 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: it fascinating and I love watching things like Snapped, which 132 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: is not necessarily about serial killers, but why women kill 133 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: or any of those reasons. And I'm like, it's so 134 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: different from your typical like BTK or any of that 135 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: that I kind of I've been doing. So I was like, 136 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: let's talk about that. I didn't realize how much work 137 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: that was gonna be. Yeah, this one turned into a 138 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: two parter. UM should have realized to that if there 139 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: are entire podcasts where one episode is dedicated to a 140 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: lot of the killers that we're going to talk about 141 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: on here, but of course it would be hard to 142 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: wrangle into one episode, right. I think also was really 143 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: funny it's um all the YouTube channels not funny, but 144 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: just how many YouTube channels there are dedicated to investigations, 145 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: these theories, these reasonings. It's it's it's a whole thing. 146 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: It is um, it's a whole genre. It is extremely 147 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: popular among some people. I actually am not people are 148 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: always kind of shocked because I'm not into true crime. Um, 149 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: this was a lot of this was very new to me. Um. Well, 150 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: you know when we sat down and I started telling 151 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: you about all of them, You're like, well many, there's like, 152 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, three or four, And I was like, oh no, oh, yeah, 153 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: there was a lot. I've learned a lot, um And 154 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: so yeah, where we split this into two episodes. This 155 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: first part is signed kind of more like a basis 156 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: what we're talking about, and then history serial killers of 157 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: lore of history and you know, older ones, and then 158 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: in part two will look at some more modern serial killers. Yes, 159 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: I am fascinated because one of the things that I 160 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: also love is watching things like queminam lines SVU all 161 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: of those things. Thought the SVU as the right part, 162 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: but much like any of the other shows, they take 163 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: what really happened and then make it, you know, even 164 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: more so crazy and reading all of these I'm like, oh, wow, 165 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: that's in this episode of the show. Most of the 166 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: ones I know are the older ones because something like 167 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: Supernatural has them as ghosts, right, right, but both Yeah, 168 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: I was kind of shocked at how Um I sort 169 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: of missed a lot of this and I was trying 170 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: to think about because there was rumors of a serial 171 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: killer where I grew up. I don't know if it's 172 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: a serial killer, but there was a person who was 173 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: killing young women, and I remember that fear of you know, 174 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: suddenly going somewhere alone was like, you can't do it 175 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: having accur few Uh he I don't know, I don't. 176 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: I think he was caught fairly quickly. Um. And that's 177 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 1: something else before we get into this trigger warning for violence, 178 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: sexual assault, and acrophilia general grizzly this. Um. Yeah, I 179 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: was just thinking when that happened, When that serial killer 180 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: thing was happening, one of my friends UM went missing. 181 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: She was was totally fine, she just didn't communicate well 182 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: with anyone where she was going. So everyone thought she 183 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: was somewhere else and she was none of those places. 184 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: But for like a couple of hours, we we thought 185 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: like maybe she had been uh the victim, because her 186 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: parents like called in a panic and like where and 187 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: I threw up from like nerves. Um. So I just 188 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: like an understanding as we go through this that these 189 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: are real people, real victims. Some of them, I imagine, 190 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: like every year and an anniversary or something gets they 191 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: get contacted by reporters. UM. So just something to keep 192 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: in mind, right, UM. And I think a lot of 193 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: the things that you're not The reason I had said 194 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: before that I'm fascinated by them is because, um, of 195 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: the backstory and of the reasoning is. And I don't 196 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: know why. I'm very caught up in that of fortunate. 197 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: I think that's like my social work and my education, 198 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: and also that I work with you who get into trouble, 199 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: and not that they're going to come out of serial 200 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: colors or anything, but you see the beginnings of Oh, 201 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: these are the foundations of why things may have happened 202 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: or gone down this road. And again, not to excuse 203 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: anything in anyone, but it's really kind of fascinating to 204 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: have a whole history and look at that individual. Yeah, 205 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: and you are certainly not the only one who has fascination. UM. 206 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: So let's start with a definition from the Federal Bureau 207 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: of Investigation. Serial killer is a series or of two 208 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: or more murders committed as separate events, usually but not always, 209 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: by one offender acting alone. UM. The murders typically take 210 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: place over several months to allow for a cooling off period, 211 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: usually an emotional period. UM. And this is what separates 212 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: it from like a mass murder um. But this definition 213 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: is not without its flaws, and you, like me, may 214 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: be shocked to learn that it's kind of hard to 215 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: come on and except that generally accepted definition, actually gang 216 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: members in theory could meet that criteria. For example, serial 217 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: killers frequently but not always, have a sexually deviant motive, 218 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 1: but this is not usually true for female serial killers. Yep. 219 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: More on that in a moment. The National Institute of 220 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: Justice includes that in their definition, their definition being two 221 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: or more murders with a psychological motive and a sexually 222 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: deviant overtone. In that way, it could be classified as 223 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: a sex crime. But again, not all serio killers, especially 224 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: female ones, have displayed sexually deviant behavior. That Zodiac killer 225 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: is a famous example of a male serial killer who's 226 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: not sexually motivated. And side note, When I was in 227 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: ninth grade and we were for some reason, we all 228 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: took this test in class because we were reading Dante's Inferno, 229 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: and we took this quiz about which serio killer you 230 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: would be, and I got the Zodiac. I have so 231 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: many questions, but not so much about why you would be, 232 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: but why why were y'all thinking I don't know, and 233 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: it was there were like for people who got someone 234 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: might say Jack the Ripper there, we would kind of 235 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: look at them askew because I felt like the zodiac 236 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: was a bit of a like they say, are you 237 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: sure it wasn't the FBI testing group of people just 238 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: just to check and be like, oh, we're gonna go 239 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: ahead and flag them. Oh no, I hope not saying okay. So, 240 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: women of females of serial killers are often motivated by 241 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: financial reasons, altruism, sympathy, our love and if you're like, 242 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: how that hell can that be? Killing people for altruism? Um? 243 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: We do have a lot of examples of that in 244 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: in these episodes, and it could be something like killing 245 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: a baby who in the killer's mind has no future. Um. So, 246 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: although I imagine it's simple enough to remember a time 247 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: in your life when you in passing, I thought about 248 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: killing someone or hurting someone because they had done you wrong, 249 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: or they've done someone you love wrong, but you didn't 250 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: do it, but you had the thought. It's kind of 251 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: like I just recently read I think it was a 252 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: tweet that said if you haven't at least thought about 253 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: killing your significant other at least once you didn't truly 254 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: love them that was the one. And then also and like, 255 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: so I married an ax murderer. Love that movie? Have 256 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: you seen this movie? Okay? Uh, it's Mike Myers, one 257 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: of his first movies. He's in bed with his wife 258 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: at that point, and she was like, it's so intimated. 259 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: We're so close that I could just kill you at 260 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: any moment. Like he freaks out because obviously at the beginning, 261 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: the whole synopsis of the movie is that is she 262 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: a killer or whatever? But yeah, but I thought it 263 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: was really kind of funny. I'm like, oh, yeah, you 264 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: can trust you have to really trust that you're not 265 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: gonna get that other person. Well, you know, that's one 266 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: thing I was thinking about when I was researching this, 267 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: because again, this is all pretty new to me. Um 268 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: because you always here, they seem so normal, will they 269 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: fit in all those all those things? But for a 270 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: lot of these cases, maybe the person did seem normal 271 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: unless you were like the authorities, because a lot of 272 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: them could have been caught like way earlier. And that 273 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: surprised me because I always heard that kind of trope 274 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: like oh they're so no. I never ready guess and 275 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: that's still there. But a lot of them had run 276 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: ins with the law, like got arrested for something very 277 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: similar we're called in like social services was called in. 278 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: That kind of blew my mind. Well, some I think 279 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: that there's not or there shouldn't be a strict definition, 280 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: but rather a prototype and varying degrees to fitting that prototype. Yeah. Yeah, 281 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: sear Killings are about as old as humanity is, our 282 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: dark shadow haunting all corners of the world where people reside. 283 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: I did read something I wasn't able to verify it, 284 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: but I did read that there are more serial killers 285 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: in the United States. They are relatively rare, though, making 286 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: up less than one percent of murders annually. And on 287 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: top of that, only of that one percent are female 288 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: or estimated b female, So that's about one in six 289 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: zerio killers as female. Despite or maybe because of the 290 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: small percentage, we humans have a morbid fascination with zero killers. 291 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: This is from an official FBI report on serial killers. Quote. 292 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: There's a macabre interest in the subject, in the topic 293 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: that far exceeds its scope and has generated countless articles, books, 294 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: and movies. This broad based public fascination began in the 295 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: late eighteen eighties after series of unsolved prostitute murders occurred 296 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: in the White Chapel area of London. These murders were 297 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: committed by an unknown individual who named himself Jack the 298 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,239 Speaker 1: Ripper and sent letters to the police claiming to be 299 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: the killer. The report even cites silence of the Lambs 300 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: as kickstarting our kind of cultural interests and serial killers 301 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: are like re kick starting it, and goes out on 302 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: to point out that the media's betrayal of serial killers 303 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: causes confusion about what is a serial killer, what constitutes 304 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: a serial killer, and the FBI. And in this report 305 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: they go through some of the resulting pervasive myths point 306 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: by point. So big one is um. Not all serial 307 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: killers are loners. A lot of them have families and 308 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: or are very active in their community. Not all serial 309 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: killers are white males. A lot of them are, but 310 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: not of them. Not all serial killers are sexually motivated. 311 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: Not all serial killers that travel by interstates. Serial killers 312 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: can stop killing, the myth being that they can't stop, 313 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: but they can. Um. Serial killers are either insane our 314 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: evil geniuses. Actually they usually have average i Q. They're 315 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: not one of those things, which is what we typically 316 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: see in the media right. So a long held myth 317 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: has been that women can't be serial killers. Even seasoned 318 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: FBI agents and detectives have made that claim fairly recently, 319 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: and the evolutionary psychologists at Penn State Harrisburg, Marissa Harrison pausitive. 320 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: We don't want to believe, or just plane don't believe, 321 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: that women are capable of such horrendous things, but history 322 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: has shown us that women can be serial colors. This 323 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: disconnect means that women get away with their crimes for 324 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: twice as long on an average as men. Harrison conducted 325 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: a study on sixty four American female serial killers who 326 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: were active between eight to two eight. She looked at 327 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: their demographics and found that, on an average in their 328 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: twenties or thirties and average intelligence, a Christian, middle class 329 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: and married, the total body count for these women are 330 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 1: three and thirty one people, which is pretty impressive. More 331 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: than half of those victims were children, and about a 332 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: fourth war the elderly or already ill. Harrison's analysis also 333 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: found female serial killers were more likely to kill someone 334 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: they knew like nine of the time, as opposed to 335 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: the strangers often targeted by male serial killers eight five percent. 336 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: Of the time, men hunt, women gather to oversimplify, and 337 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: then female killers more frequently used poison as their method 338 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: of choice and were often employed in caregiving field. Many 339 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: had suffered physical and or sexual abuse, and probably were 340 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: white women. So that means I'm safe. Yeah, right, No, 341 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: I might not kill you. I don't know of the 342 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: two of us. I don't know what more likely to 343 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: be the zero. It's going to what movie you watch? 344 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: I guess. And even in the media, nicknames from women 345 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: are gendered, whereas the media nicknames from men generally are 346 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: more indicative of the brutality of their crimes. Right, and yeah, 347 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: we have plenty of horrific examples of female zero killers 348 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: throughout history, and we'll get into some of them after 349 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: a quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back, 350 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: Thank you, sponsoring disclaimer. We're back with a disclaimer. Everyone 351 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: loves us. Before we get started. A lot of these stories, 352 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: especially the older ones, which are the ones we're tackling 353 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: in this one, have perhaps been exaggerated sensationalized over the years, 354 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: or we're actually I found this interesting stories of men 355 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: lying about women to get them out of power. Um 356 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: our fascination with serial killers only exacerbates our tendency to exaggerate. 357 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: And uh, there are a lot of bad resources out there, 358 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: a lot of misinformation, so we we did our best 359 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: to get the good stuff. But I want to say 360 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: that the top and you guys also remember you're gonna 361 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: you'll probably be familiar with some of these stories as well, 362 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: and that's because it's been against sensational lies or dramatized 363 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: just for entertainment sake. So it's kind of like, oh no, 364 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: how do we get through all of these right? Um? 365 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: And I also want to say, this is it? I 366 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: guess so much? Oh no, maybe it is. Um. I 367 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: was gonna say that this didn't happen as much in 368 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: these older examples, but I think it did. A lot 369 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: of these sources that we found always when their way 370 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: to say this person wasn't attractive, how in the world 371 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: could they have had a boyfriend, a husband or lover whatever, 372 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: Or that they were too pretty to be killers? So 373 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: that's gross. It's still all about looks like you're not 374 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: pretty enough to kill? You're too pretty. I I read 375 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: in multiple places, particularly about one example we're going to 376 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: talk about, that she people thought she was too ugly 377 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 1: to have because she was like having sex with men 378 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 1: and then killing them and they're like, no way, right, 379 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: that's okay, all right. Um So, some historians posit the 380 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: first recorded serial killer was actually female Locusta, the Poisoner 381 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: or Locusta of Gaul, who murdered and assassinated people, particularly 382 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: with poison, as the nickname might suggest, over two thousand 383 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: years ago in ancient Rome. Others argue that she wasn't 384 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: really a serial killer, but she was more of a 385 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,719 Speaker 1: highered assassin. But let's let's talk about her for a second. 386 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: Um Nero's mother, Agrippina the Younger, employed her Locusta as 387 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: an assassin for higher Legend goes that she was assigned 388 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: to the poisoning of Agrippina's husband, Emperor Claudius, and members 389 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: of the imperial family so as to make a path 390 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: for Nero to rise up the ranks. Locusta was arrested 391 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: for her role in Emperor Claudius's death, but Nero overturned 392 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: her death sentence uh and got her out of jail 393 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: and appointed her as the official poisoner of the Imperial 394 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: Roman Court. The official poisoner, Yeah, to do what she loves. 395 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: She did, and she also opened a school to teach 396 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: others the art and science of poison. The knowledge she 397 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: passed on may have led to over ten thousand deaths. 398 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: With Nero's blessing, she experimented on animals, criminals, and slaves. 399 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: The Storians suspect she also murdered and molested children, using 400 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: their blood for alchemy. She was described as possessing Titanic cruelty. 401 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: She was publicly executed in sixty nine after Nero killed 402 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: himself with one of her poisoned aggers um and the 403 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: new emperor condemned her to death. A widely popular, but 404 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: most likely undrue story is that she was raped to 405 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: death by a specially trained giraffe and then torn apart 406 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: and devoured by wild animals while an enormous crowd looked on. 407 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: That is what If you type in her name, will 408 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: come up a giraffe. So warning about that one. I've 409 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: never heard of. No use of giraffe as neither an 410 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: execution tool. I have not either. That's why I have 411 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: my doubts. But ancient Rome was up to some not 412 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: so great stuff. One of history's most infamous and notorious 413 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: female serial killers is Elizabeth Bathory, the Hungarian Countess that 414 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: is believed to have tortured and killed upwards of six 415 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty teenaged female peasants between fifty five and 416 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: sixteen ten. And this is one of the ones that 417 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: you and I was talking about, one of the big 418 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: examples um. That number has never been verified, and was 419 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: a number an eyewitness report is being in a diary, 420 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: But then that diary has never been found. So who knows. 421 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: Her family owned Transylvania, and they were an interesting bunch 422 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: of people, they were. One of her uncles introduced her 423 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: to Satanism at a very young age, and an aunt 424 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: did the same for sado Masochism. So one of one 425 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: of great family um records indicate that she witnessed the 426 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: torture of peasants by her father's officer as a child, 427 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: including one account of a peasant being sewn into a 428 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: dying horse's stomach and left to die. He must have 429 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 1: been really small. I guess you're right. She herself has 430 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: was prone to fits of rage. By the time she 431 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: married Count Dusty, she had begun torturing servant girls, and 432 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: after the count died, she began kidnapping, torturing and killing them. 433 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: It was widely believed she ate the flesh and bathed 434 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: in the blood of her victims in hopes of holding 435 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: onto her youth. The rumors about her are rampant that 436 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: she pushed needles under the nails of servant girls, or 437 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: tie them down, covered them up with honey, and set 438 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: bees and aunts on them. Her favorite implement of torture 439 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 1: was reportedly scissors. Once she was discovered, she was sentenced 440 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 1: to live out her days in solitary in her castle, 441 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: which that must be nice. That's what power gets you, huh, 442 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: just to get to hang out. But she was actually 443 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: walled in, and some stories claiming she only had slits 444 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: for food and water and air, So I guess it 445 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: had to be pretty dark. After only three years, she 446 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: died in sixteen fourteen. She was known to some as 447 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: the blood Countess worth mentioning. Some historians believe that all 448 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 1: of this was politically motivated. Slanders spread about her relatives 449 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: to get ahold of Elizabeth's land and so that King 450 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: Matthias the Second would not have to pay back a 451 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: debt that he owed her family. Basically, she was powerful, 452 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: wealthy woman with strategic land, and so men and power 453 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: sought to ruin her and take her wealth. Hey Annie, Yes, 454 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: do you know you can actually visit her castle today? Uh? 455 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: Well I do. Now, then you can purchase the bathery 456 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: blood wine. What what kind of grapes they used for that? 457 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: I think it's a peanout noir, I think so. But yeah, 458 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: if you look up female serio killers, a lot of 459 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: times she's listed as one of the most prolific in history, 460 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: like female or otherwise. But a lot of historians think 461 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: she this was and it was to lock her in 462 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: the castle so that she she cou in her power. 463 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: And yeah, from what I understand, she was kind of 464 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: the beginning of how Dracula yea, and yeah she was. 465 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: She's thought to be the inspiration one of the inspirations 466 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: for Braunze Stoker's Dracula. Eighteenth century Russian noble woman Daria 467 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: Nikolaevna Saltykova is believed to have killed over one hundred 468 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: servant girls by beating and torturing them. She was well 469 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: connected and widowed at the age of twenty six, making 470 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: her the wealthiest widow in Russia at that time. She 471 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: had a nice property that she inhabited with two of 472 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: her sons, and over six hundred serfs. For a while, 473 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: nothing seemed a miss, and she was somebody well respected. 474 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: She donated churches and charities, But after a love affair 475 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: ended with her lover leaving her for another woman, a 476 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: younger woman, Saltikova apparently started to take her ger out 477 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,479 Speaker 1: on unfortunate serves, primarily young women. She killed women and children, 478 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: throwing them out in the cold, pouring boiling water on them, 479 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: breaking their bones. At first, complaints about her actions were 480 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: ignored because she was so well off in her victims 481 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: so poor. But eventually the protest of grieving families grew 482 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: too loud to ignore, and she was charged with the 483 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: murder of thirty eight women and then to escaped the 484 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: estate in seventeen sixty two, and they bought a petition 485 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: for Empress Catherine the Second, who ordered an investigation. She 486 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: was found sane and unremorseful. This is Saltikova, uh not 487 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: first Captain the second um. Saltykova was sentenced to a 488 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: civil execution at Moscow's Red Square, which consisted of a 489 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: public beating and then an hour spent with a sign 490 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: chained around her neck that read, this woman has tortured 491 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: and murdered. She spent the next several years living in 492 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: complete darkness and a convent basement only for meals when 493 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: she granted some light in the form of a candle. 494 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: She was eventually transferred and died in eighteen oh one 495 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: after thirty or three years civil execution. Interesting. I guess 496 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: it's like which I would think just by being convicted. Yeah, 497 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,239 Speaker 1: but they wanted to have a whole public thing for it. 498 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: I guess it was like that form of Twitter. Yeah. 499 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: My friend co worker Lauren often says there was no 500 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: Netflix back then, so this was their entertainment. In eighteen 501 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: thirty one, Geisha or Gusha Gottfried was arrested and publicly 502 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: executed in front of a crowd of thirty five thousand 503 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: people in Bremen, Germany, the city's last public beheading. The 504 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: spot is marked with a basalt stone or a spinning stone. 505 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: Over a fourteen year span, she used arsenic to poison 506 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: fifteen people, including her parents, her children, her two husbands 507 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: and friends. So she mean, you know, she's a really 508 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: great person. Some speculate that she had munch House and syndrome. 509 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: By proxy. She was well liked before she was found 510 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: out she was actually known the Angel of Breman. They 511 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: used her death mascore as any you just explained to 512 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: me was what, So it's this obsolete pseudoscience that um 513 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: where they would try to predict mental traits based on 514 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: the bumps on your skull, among other things. So they 515 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: used hers to try to predict female, yeah, female patterns. 516 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: And also just want to mention, because I've never heard 517 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: of this before, but that spinning stone thing, that's literally 518 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: a place where local spit that's what it sounded. Yeah, 519 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: so I'm thinking they used that to think a spit 520 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: on her blood essentially. Yeah. Yeah, you can visit this stone. 521 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: It's still there. And I was looking at the tourist 522 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: thing and it said don't be alarmed if you see 523 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: locals spitting on the ground at this one spot. It's 524 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: all spitting stone. So we need to start go ahead 525 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: and put planning our next jobs to all of these 526 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: different places. Okay, well we're gonna have to bounce it 527 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: out because I'll be drinking the wine. Um. But I 528 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,239 Speaker 1: actually have been to this next place, um, which is 529 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: Madame Marie Delphine La Laurie's house. So yeah, that's who 530 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about. Many of you may know this one 531 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: from American horror story or perhaps from a ghost tour 532 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: you've taken in New Orleans. Madame Laurie was a slave owner, 533 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: owner of a massive plantation, and a socialite who threw 534 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: these huge, lavish parties. She married three times. Her first 535 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: two husbands died. Her third husband was a doctor named 536 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: Leonard La Laurie. Rumors persisted of Madame La Laurie's cruelty 537 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: to her slaves, but these rumors remained unsubstantiated. One man, 538 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: afraid of Madame Laurie's punishments, flung himself from a third 539 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: story window, a window that remains cemented shut to this day. 540 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: Another girl, Leah, who was whipped after brushing Laurie's hair 541 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: too hard um, also jumped from a window or maybe fell. 542 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: Some people witnessed ltt Laurie bearing her body. So these 543 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: two instances, there's a lot of lore about Madame La Laurie. Um. 544 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: These two are the ones that most historians agreed happened, 545 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: actually happened right um. So Madame La Lauri was fined 546 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: three dollars for bearing this body um and had to 547 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: sell off a nine of her slaves, but she just 548 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: got her family to re buy them and then give 549 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: them back to her, and the authorities looked the other way. 550 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: I think they kind of knew that was happening and 551 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: just really care enough to do anything. In four, a 552 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: slave of Madame Lulauri's changed the stove set a fire 553 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: in the hopes of killing herself. When authorities arrived to 554 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: the scene, they found this elderly enslaved woman chained to 555 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: the stove, and she had formed them that she had 556 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: started the fire to end her life because she had 557 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: been told she would be taken to the attic, and 558 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: no one returned from the attic. And also there was 559 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: a lot of neighbors kind of gathering at this point 560 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: because they had seen Madame lu Laurie collecting like furs 561 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: and jewelry or items, but not really caring that about her. 562 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: Slaves were in this house and they were like where 563 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: are they? Um, So, of course the authorities went into 564 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: the attic and what they found was horrifying. Slaves were 565 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: chained with spiked iron collars, clearly tortured, and in many 566 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: cases their skin had been flayed. Accounts, Oh, there's so 567 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: many stories. This is one of the things where people 568 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: aren't really sure because as time went on, they got 569 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: more and more grotesque account's tale of slaves with limbs missing, 570 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: still alive, or missing their tongues, mouth stone shut, one 571 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: slave skull being sawed off with a spoon in his brains. 572 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: Another reportedly had her legs and arms broken and reset 573 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: to resemble a crab um. Yet another was wrapped in 574 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: her own human intestines. Slaves and cages, corpses and body 575 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: parts littered about a bucket of heads, a woman whose 576 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: skin had been peeled off in spiral patterns so as 577 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: to resemble a caterpillar. Some sources claim that there were 578 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: only a handful of victims. Others claimed that there were 579 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: over one hundred. And it's really hard to say great 580 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: rumors and all the things that were sensationalized over time 581 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: from fact, but yes, the records seemed to indicate for 582 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: sure there were slaves in the attic, and that they 583 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: had been tortured and chained with inward facing spiked collars. 584 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: Outreached by these heinous acts are maybe just the fact 585 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: that she left her slaves in the attic to burn 586 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: in a fire um mom before thousand people formed to 587 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: find Madame Muldaurie. But she was nowhere to be found. Um. 588 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: The story goes that she escaped with her slave car driver, 589 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: UM fled to Paris. A plaque in the St. Louis 590 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: Cemetery asserts that she died in Paris. Um. Some believes 591 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: she faked her death in Paris and returned to New 592 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 1: Orleans to live out her life something she never actually 593 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: left New Orleans. In New Orleans lore, she is known 594 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: as the Savage Mistress. So, like all the other names 595 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: on this list, fascination has led to a lot of 596 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: dissection and speculation of our story and her motives. Um. 597 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: Some poset that her husband made been the main culprit, 598 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: driving her to violence and committing a lot of it 599 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: himself as the minted medical test. In some tellings, he 600 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: was experimenting with Haitian voodoo potions and the attempt to 601 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: make slaves more docile. Others virgins say that the seventeen 602 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: seventy one murder of Madame LaLaurie's uncle by slaves, along 603 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: with Haitian slave revolt and her experience during the eighteen 604 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: eleven slave uprisings in New Orleans, led to a general 605 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: atmosphere of increased tolerance of violence against slaves, even though 606 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: Louisiana and theory had one of the only laws in 607 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: the books to prevent cruelty against the enslaved, and that 608 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: all of these events had a huge influence of La 609 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,240 Speaker 1: Loi's behavior. Over one slaves were beheaded as a result 610 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: of the eighteen eleven uprising, which is a lot. Their 611 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: heads were put on display and their corpses hung from 612 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: the city gates. Some historians claimed that unfortunately and disturbingly enough, 613 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: slave owners were so terrified of their slaves killing them 614 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: in their sleeves, despite iron collars were not actually unusual, 615 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: especially in rural parts of Louisiana. However, that kind of 616 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: brutality was not as common are perceived as acceptable in 617 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: New Orleans, which is probably why such a large mob 618 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: formed after discovering what Madame Mulaurie did. When English writer 619 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: Harriet Martineau arrived to New Orleans at six, details of 620 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: it became marquis um more embellished, giving birth to the 621 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: legend of the gory ghost story that is Madame Mlauri. Yeah, yeah, 622 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: that one. I is one of the ones I am 623 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: familiar with um And speaking of ghost stories, I have 624 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: another one I'm familiar with um. But first we're going 625 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: to take a quick break for a word from our sponsor, 626 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor, and we're back with 627 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: Lizzie Borden. Yes, so there is a kind of rhyme 628 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 1: about her. Lizzie Borden took an X gave her mother 629 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: forty wax. When she saw what she had done, she 630 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: gave her father forty one. So yeah. In the eighteen nineties, 631 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: Lizzie Borden allegedly killed her father and stepmother with an ax. 632 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: Her family was well off and Lizzie was an unmarried 633 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: thirty two year old Sunday school teacher. One morning, when 634 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: her father returned home, Lizzie informed him that Mrs Borden, 635 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: her stepmother, whom she did not get along with, had 636 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: left the house. He went into the living room to 637 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: sit on the sofa. The maid was not feeling well 638 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: and retreated to her room to lie down for a bit. 639 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: She awoke to Lizzie screaming that her father was dead. 640 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: His face was horribly bashed in and disconfigured. Sullivan. The 641 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: maid um ran to get a doctor. Neighbors called the police. 642 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: Lizzie told the gathering crowd that her family hadn't been 643 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: feeling well for days, and she suspected poisoned milk. Her 644 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: story has since become quite exaggerated and the stuff of 645 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: nightmare legend um, but okay, for when the doctor arrived, 646 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: the maid went upstairs to check for Mrs Borden and 647 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: found her dead in a pool of her own blood. 648 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: The authorities determined that Mrs Borden had been struck nineteen 649 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: times with the hatchet. Mr Borden eleven times, his nose 650 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: had been cut off from his face, and one of 651 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: his eyes sliced in half. When the bodies were later examined, 652 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: no poison was found in their systems. At first, Lizzie 653 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 1: was not a suspect. It wasn't until authorities pursued a 654 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: lot of leads that turned out to be nothing that 655 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: they started to suspect Lizzie, basically because she was kind 656 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: of the only one left um for one. They never 657 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: found the note that Lizzie claimed Mrs Borden received summoning 658 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,959 Speaker 1: her out of the house, and Mrs Borden never left 659 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: in any case. Right um the day prior to the murders, 660 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: it was discovered that Lizzie attempted to purchase persic acid 661 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: are cyanide, but was denied since she did not have 662 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: a prescription for it. A friend of Lizzie's claim to 663 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: have seen Lizzie burning address a few days after the 664 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: murders because it was stained and could no longer be warned. 665 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: That was all the judge needed to charge Lizzie with 666 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: the murders, and her trial was a media circus. Her 667 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: lawyer claimed she could not have committed the murders because 668 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: the closed Lizzi War when the neighbors arrived were clean, 669 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: and nowadays some people believe that's because she committed the 670 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: crimes naked. Yeah. Some witnesses claimed to have seen some 671 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,959 Speaker 1: suspicious characters looking about the Boarding home in the days 672 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: leading up to the murders. This was enough for Lizzie 673 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: to be declared not guilty. I did not know that. 674 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 1: I thought she had been declared guilty. Um. She and 675 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: her sister inherited their father's estate and they bought a 676 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: nice house. Lizzie died in ninety seven. Theories abound to 677 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,439 Speaker 1: this day about who killed the board and some say 678 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 1: it was the work of Mr Barden's illegitimate son and 679 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: the Boarding sisters covered it up, or that they worked together, 680 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: or that Lizzie killed them all on her own but 681 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: with the blessing of her sister and this brother. Some 682 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: believe Lizzie and the maid were having an affair and 683 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: carried out the crime together. Her story has been turned 684 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: into movies, TV shows, books, and the house where the 685 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: murders happened is now a museum tourists flocked to every year. 686 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: This is growing, Corless is growing. Oh well, Okay, I 687 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: like I go on the haunted, haunted doors. I'm not 688 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: gonna lie, right, And that's also why I know a 689 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: little bit, because I also would watch all of these 690 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: characters come back to haunt something. Right. So. In the 691 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: Victorian England, Amilia day Are, also known as the Redding 692 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: baby Farmer, is believed to have killed possibly hundreds of children. 693 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: She turned to murder as a way to support her 694 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,280 Speaker 1: daughter after her husband died. She started baby farming, essentially 695 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: taking infants into her home and being paid to care 696 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: for and wet nurse them. During this time period, this 697 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: was an option for women pregnant with an illegitimate child. 698 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,399 Speaker 1: They could pay a fee and give birth to add 699 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: a baby farm and pay the farm to care for 700 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: them and arrange an adoption instead of caring for these babies. 701 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: So Dia took the money and strangled them either or 702 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 1: starved them or gave them a concoction laced with opious 703 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: called Mother's Friend. Huh, that's nice title. She did this 704 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: for thirty years before she was caught and executed by hanging, 705 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: which is why the estimate of victims is in the hundreds. 706 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: She'd been caught previously foot killing babies, but released after 707 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: being charged with neglect. See this is one of the 708 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: examples where I was like, huh, but I also read 709 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: a lot of things saying disturbingly enough again that was 710 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:20,319 Speaker 1: kind of like for the course, Yeah, okay, very disturbed. 711 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 1: At the beginning of the twenty century, Amy Archer Gilligan 712 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: ran what seemed to be a nursing home in Connecticut. 713 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,839 Speaker 1: Suspicions arose about Gilligan after several of her patients named 714 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: her on their life insurance policies before dying, and authorities 715 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: discovered she'd purchased a lot of arsenic Over a five 716 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: year period. She poisoned over forty eight people, and she 717 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: was the inspiration behind a Broadway show and later a 718 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: movie called Arsenic. An old lace it's good movie, you've 719 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: seen it. I shouldn't be surprised. I like weird old movies, 720 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: so I'm really into like black and white and way 721 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: back when musicals too. So okay, all right. Victorian American 722 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,760 Speaker 1: Bell Gunnis began her killing spree in Indiana by murdering 723 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: her husband the day of two overlapping life insurance policies. 724 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: She then drew men and with newspaper as describing herself 725 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: as a comely widow. And they also said triflers need 726 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: not apply um so i as to kill them after 727 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: marriage or taking out well, definitely after taking out a 728 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: life insurance policy. I guess the marriage wasn't always the case. 729 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: A week after marrying Peter Gunness, his baby daughter died unexpectedly, 730 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: and he himself died in an accident not long after. 731 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,919 Speaker 1: The circumstances were suspicious enough that a coroner investigated, but 732 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: um Bell was cleared. Her daughter Jenny told a classmate, 733 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: my mama killed my papa. She hit him with a 734 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: meat cleaver and he died. Don't tell a soul. Poisoning 735 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: and bludgeoning was Gunness's m O, and her kill count 736 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: is estimated to be over forty when she was discovered 737 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: or kind of the gig was up. I guess she Well, 738 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: it gets kind of confusing, but some people think she 739 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 1: faked her own death by setting a house fire, but 740 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: not before killing her children and leaving their hacked up 741 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: bodies in their beds to make it more believable, right, 742 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: But some people think that Um, the farm hand did it. 743 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: He set the house on fire, and that's certainly what 744 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: people thought at this time. Because there was a body 745 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: found of a female, headless corpse, people assumed to be Gunness. 746 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 1: So there was this trial about the farm hand because 747 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,320 Speaker 1: you know, they discovered eleven bodies in the hogpin, including 748 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: Gunnis's foster daughter Um, so that that there was this 749 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: trial about the farm hand. He was generally accepted to 750 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: be the killer, but he claimed Gunnis did it and 751 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 1: that Gunnis framed him. She was compared to Lady Macbeth. 752 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: Her home was called a horror farm or a death garden, 753 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 1: and up to twenty people visited the farm in a 754 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: single weekend. Kind of during this whole time period because 755 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,759 Speaker 1: there was so much media coverage of it. Um inventors 756 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,839 Speaker 1: there so old ice cream popcorn in an item called 757 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: Gunness stew Yes. UM. Prosecutors in this trial for the 758 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 1: farm hand argued that Gunnis had quote engaged in the 759 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,759 Speaker 1: wholesale slaughter of humanity. UM. When investigators realized that the 760 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: headless body of the woman they assumed to be Gunnis 761 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 1: was in fact not her, a panic spread. Sightings of 762 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: her were reported everywhere UM. And there has been some 763 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 1: semi recent updates to this one because UH. In two 764 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, forensic anthropologists UM found this body who 765 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: they think was Gunnas or maybe not Gonnas, but they 766 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: tested the DNA and they compared it to sample's Gunnis 767 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: had left on a postage stamp UM and the results 768 00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: were inconclusive of right. But in ninth thirty one, there 769 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,480 Speaker 1: was another woman who was awaiting trial for poisoning a 770 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 1: man UM named Esther Carlson, and some people suggest that 771 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: that was Gunness. So yeah, rumors abound about her. She 772 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: looked a lot like Gunness, and she had a photo 773 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: of the children that looked like Gunness's children UM and 774 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: was about the same age, in same emo, same thing poisoning. Yeah, 775 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: so we may never know. So in you up in 776 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, Dagma Overby's job was taking care of 777 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: children born outside of wedlock once again, but she instead strangled, drowned, 778 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: or burned them. She's estimated to have killed up to 779 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: twenty five children. Allegedly, she was only found out when 780 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: a woman changed her mind and went back for her 781 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,799 Speaker 1: baby and over by couldn't tell her the address where 782 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,960 Speaker 1: she asked where the child would be placed. The case 783 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: use so much publicity in details were so horrific, her 784 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 1: home country of Denmark changed some of their childcare laws. 785 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,919 Speaker 1: At the time, Denmark did not put our women to death, 786 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 1: quote unquote, so they changed it to the No, they 787 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 1: just changed the childcare laws. But that's just what they said. 788 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,760 Speaker 1: They would have put her to death. But yeah, um, 789 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: so that's is some examples from the past, from like 790 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,799 Speaker 1: the far back past. Uh. And it brings us to 791 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 1: the end of this our part one look at female 792 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: zero killers. But we do have a part two. Yes, 793 00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,840 Speaker 1: we have a lot more to say, uh and you 794 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: can you can catch that in the coming days. Well, 795 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: I I don't know when you're listening to this. It 796 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,759 Speaker 1: could be any time. But in the meantime, we would 797 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Um if you have thoughts 798 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 1: about serio killers. Or why we are so fascinated with them, 799 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: or if you have more details that we may not 800 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,759 Speaker 1: know about, or a zero killer we missed. Um. You 801 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at i 802 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,800 Speaker 1: heeart Media dot um. You can find us on Twitter 803 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've 804 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,640 Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks as always for a super producer, 805 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: Andrew Howard. Thank you, Andrew, and thanks to you for 806 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,799 Speaker 1: listening Stuff I've Never Told You his production of I 807 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my 808 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,360 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 809 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,000 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to favorite shows