1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Welcome Dick. It Happened Here a podcast about things falling 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: apart and sometimes about how to put them back together again. 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Na Wong. This is a we are 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: once again talking about Wizards of the Coast. Now this 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: time is not about dungeons and dragons. It is about 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: their other property, Magic the Gathering, which if you don't know, 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: is Wizards of the Coast's trading card game that's at 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: the forefront of some truly wild stuff. Right now. Now 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: you could ask Mia, why are we even talking about 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: this about Magic the Gathering on this show, And you know, 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: there's multiple answers. One of them is that as industrial 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: profit rates have been decreasing in the last half a century, 13 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: capital has increasingly turned towards entertainment as a way to 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: make money. Magic is now a billion dollar brand, partnering 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: with everything from Fortnite to The Walking Dead to and 16 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: this is not a joke, being in the process of 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: releasing an entire set of Lord of the Rings card. 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: As capital is flooded into the entertainment industry and Magic 19 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: in particular, our silly little hobbies are suddenly the front 20 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: lines of class struggle. Workers at TCG player, this year, 21 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: given the job of sorting through literally tens of thousands 22 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: of cards that TCG player processes finally won their second 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: attempt to form a union after two devastating union busting campaigns. 24 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: And this is where things get very, very weird. Now 25 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: bear with me here, dear listeners. We have to talk 26 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: about a little bit of Magic minutia to understand what 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: has happened in this incident, and then we will get 28 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: back to what the show is usually about, which is 29 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: corporations killing enormous numbers of people. So a few days ago, 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: Dan Cannon, a man who runs a very small Magic 31 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: YouTube channel called Old School EMPTG, bought what he thought 32 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: were cards in the latest Magic the Gathering set called 33 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: March of the Machine. Now Magic releases new cards periodically 34 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: and what are called sets. These sets have plots and characters, 35 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: They've written stories. They are enormous sort of lower events, 36 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: they have enormous hype behind them, And March of the 37 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: Machine story wise, is basically the version of an Avengers movie. 38 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: Giant apocalyptic threats, all the heroes crossing over, people, hopping 39 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: through multi versus, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Now, okay, 40 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: this has happened before. You know, Wizards does big sets. 41 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: It wasn't that weird, but Wizard decided to do something 42 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: very very weird, which is they printed, for the first 43 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: time ever, a mini set called March of the Machines 44 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: March of the Machine Aftermath. Now, the regular March of 45 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: the Machine set has three hundred and eighty seven cards 46 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: in it, Aftermath has fifty. Now, I don't know why 47 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: they decided to do this. They've never done anything like 48 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: this if they've never printed just a tiny set they 49 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: release a bit after the regular set before and you know, 50 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: the names are very very confusing, right, one is called 51 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: March of the Machine and the other one is Marching 52 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: the Machine Aftermath. How is a regular person supposed to 53 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: keep track of this? The mind boggles, et cetera, et cetera. 54 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: Either way, So Dan Cannon tries to buy cards from 55 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: the regular March of the Machine set. What he gets 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: in sent instead are by accident March of the Machine 57 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: Aftermath cards. Now, these cards are still secret. They have 58 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: not been revealed yet, no no one, no one knows 59 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: what they are. No one's supposed to know what they are. 60 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: Before every set, there's an incredibly elaborate process where Wizards 61 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: gives cards to influencers to reveal them to the public, 62 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: and on a certain date, everyone reveals, you know, your 63 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: influencer reveals what their card is, and there's this whole 64 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: hype cycle on Reddit, and everyone argues about how good 65 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: the cards are, and I'll call the art is and 66 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: what it means for the story. It's sort of it's 67 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: sort of similar to the sort of hype cycles that 68 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: would happen around trailers from Marvel movies, or people would 69 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: be analyzing every detail of it, etcetera, et cetera. And 70 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: these are these spoiler seasons, as they're called, are a 71 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: huge deal for Wizards. Date. Wizards tries to heavily control 72 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: the entire process, but sometimes cards leak out. Now Dan 73 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: Cannon suddenly has been handed a bunch of cards no 74 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: one has ever seen before. So he does what you know, 75 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: every person who just suddenly has magic cards that haven't 76 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: been revealed yet do and have been doing for years 77 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: and years and years. He makes a video showing off 78 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: the cards. Now, importantly, this is not illegal. I need 79 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: to stress this because of what what's going to happen, 80 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,679 Speaker 1: What is going to happen next? You you know, it's 81 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: it's it's it's very very easy to look at the 82 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: at the sort of severity of what's going to happen 83 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: to this guy and assume that he broke a law. 84 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: But no, he did not. He did not break a law. 85 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: Nothing he has done he is illegal. Literally, what he's 86 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: done is he bought some magic cards from someone who 87 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: screwed up and accidentally broke the street date for selling 88 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: cards because he confused March of the Machine with March 89 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: of the Machine aftermath, Wow, how can anyone make that 90 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: mistake right? The genius of Wizards of the Coast marketing 91 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: is unmatched. Everything they do is incredibly clear, et cetera, 92 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: et cetera. Now in the pros says because of how 93 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: many cards he bought and how small the set is, 94 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: he reveals most of the cars that are in the set, 95 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: and then the Pinkertons show up to his house, forced 96 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: their way through his door, make his wife cry, threaten 97 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,119 Speaker 1: to arrest him, and threaten to put him in prison 98 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: for ten years with two hundred thousand dollars fines for 99 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: copyright infringement on the grounds of him having stolen material. 100 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: The Pinkertons also harass his elderly neighbors. Literally. Just today, 101 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: as I'm recording this, a story broken gizmoto that revealed 102 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: that Wizards of the Coast have used the Pinkertons before 103 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: to go after stolen goods. Now, some of you may 104 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: be asking who are the Pinkertons, And I think some 105 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: of you probably know in very broad outlines who the 106 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: Pinkertons are. But in order to really get at the 107 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: core of what this organization is and why they look 108 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: the way they do today as compared to how they've 109 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: looked in the past, we need to ask another question, 110 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: which is how has the balance of military power between 111 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: the state and corporations changed over time? And this seems 112 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: like a very weird question, but the Pinkertons emerge in 113 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: a very weird period of time in this balance. They 114 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: are what fills in the gap between corporations directly having 115 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: armies that could conquer nations and modern corporations who, instead 116 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: of having their own personal armies, have intelligence of vast 117 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: intelligence agencies, but also rely on the police and the 118 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: governments as the people who do violence for them. So 119 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: let's go back and tell the story from the beginning 120 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: by taking a brief look at the most infamous corporate 121 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: army of them all, the army of the East India 122 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: Trading Company. The East India Trading Company was formed in 123 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: sixteen hundred and it was given a vast state monopoly 124 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: over trade in what they called East India, which is 125 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: an area we would broadly call Southeast Asia and the 126 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: South Pacific today. And at the start these guys are 127 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: optimistically they are half trading group half pirate. The level 128 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: of piracy is really high, especially in the early days. 129 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: They you know, trade for spices. They steal a lot 130 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: of other people's spices from places like Java and they 131 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: bring them back to England. They make a lot of 132 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: money now over the course of their actions. And again 133 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: it's worth noting these people are kind of the descendants 134 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: of the British privateers, people like Thomas Drake, who'd been 135 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, just pirates who have been hired by the 136 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: government to only go after like Spanish ships instead of 137 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: English ships. So they are, you know, from the beginning, 138 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: the East India Company has this sort of dna of 139 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: army in it, and over the course of about two 140 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: centuries they are going to conquer with their own army 141 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: most of what is now India and Pakistan, and that 142 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: territory is either going to indirectly or directly come under 143 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: the rule of the East India Company. And the EASTERNDA 144 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: Company is fighting war everywhere again. They seize Indian Pakistent 145 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: by force, they are fighting wars in Afghanistan. They kill 146 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: unfathomable numbers of people. The worst of these events is 147 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: the Great Bengalf Famine. There's a Behind the Bastard's episode 148 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: about this that you can listen to if you want 149 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: a really sort of long thing about the East India 150 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: Company and the famine. But I want to talk about 151 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: the famine a little bit, because so the Great Bengalf 152 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: Famine of seventeen seventy kills ten million people. And I 153 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: knew this intellectually, right, I studied a bit in college. 154 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: But what I had never actually looked up somehow, what 155 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: I'd never seen was the percentage of the population of 156 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: this famine kills. And this famine is directly the fault 157 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: of the East India Company. This is something that all 158 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: historians who of look at this agree is that this 159 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: is directly the fault of these India Company and the 160 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: combination of their agricultural policies and their tax extraction. The 161 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: sort of put into perspective how bad this gets. The 162 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: highest serious estimates for the number of people who die 163 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: in the Great Leap Forward stands at about thirty million dead. 164 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: This is an unfathomable atrocity. It is a scale of 165 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: death at which the human mind breaks down and loses 166 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: the ability to process. Some of my family lived through it. 167 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: It is horrific in ways that are difficult to even 168 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: begin to describe. The Great Leap Forward killed about five 169 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: percent of China's population. The Great Bengal Famine killed thirty 170 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: percent of the population of India that the East India 171 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: Trading Company controlled thirty percent. That's not just sort of 172 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: small populations statistics either. Right, It's not like they killed 173 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: thirty percent of a country with thirty people in it, right. 174 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: They killed ten million people. This isn't you know. This 175 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: is an unbelievable force of human evil. They are capable 176 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: of killing people in numbers that defy comprehension. They're able 177 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: to do this because they have an army that is 178 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: the size of a great power in nation state. The 179 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: East India Trading comp Company's army in eighteen hundred had 180 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: two hundred thousand soldiers. That is a massive army today. 181 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: That is like the size of the active Ukrainian army 182 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. It is more than twice the 183 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: size of the British army eighteen hundred. And you know, 184 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: in eighteen hundred it's not like the British aren't fighting wars, 185 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: right they are. In eighteen hundred the British are fighting 186 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: the war the Second Coalition. So there they are fighting Napoleon, right. 187 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: So this isn't a sort of you know, completely half 188 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: assed like peacetime British army. This is a you know, 189 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: this is a serious military force. And even once they 190 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: like fully build up their army at the peak of 191 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: the Napoleonic Wars thirteen years later, the entire size of 192 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: the British army is about two hundred fifty thousand troops. 193 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: That's not much larger than the East India Company's army. 194 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: At the same time, and at the height of the 195 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: East India Trading Company there are army swells to again 196 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand, which is again the size 197 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: of the regular British army at in the most desperate 198 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: war that the British had fought to that point. The 199 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: Anitierating Company is a full on military great power, right. 200 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: But and this is this is this is something that 201 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: is going to shape an enormous amount of the sort 202 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: of arc of the relationship between corporate and military power. 203 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: It is unbelievably expensive to maintain an army like this 204 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: the the East, the British Stateia Company, even though they're 205 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: they you know, they are looting entire nations, right they 206 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: have they have they're there are entire states where they 207 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: fully taken over the tax services. They're just walking into 208 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: temples and taking stuff. But even with all of that profit, 209 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: right they you know, they have the ability to mint 210 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: their own coins in a lot of these areas, but 211 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: they still lose money. And they still lose money again 212 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: because they're maintaining this on two hundred and fifty thousand 213 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: strong army. And you know, so you have this problem, right, 214 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: which is that you have this item on your balance 215 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: sheet that is unfathomably expensive. And then you have a 216 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: second problem, which is that if you have an army, 217 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: there's always a danger. But the army goes into revolts, 218 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: and that's what happens in eighteen fifty seven, the British 219 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: managed to piss off their own army, which is almost 220 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: all composed of Indian troops, and they fight an incredibly 221 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: bloody war. Notice either this is the boy mutiny to 222 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: suppoy uprising and the British win, and they after victory 223 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: they strap a bunch of prisoners bodies to canons and 224 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: shoot them so they can't be properly buried. But the 225 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: consequence of this sort of horrifying war, and particularly the 226 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: sort of fear it invokes in the minds of you know, 227 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: the British populace of like, oh my god, these non 228 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: white people can actually fight us, is that they directly 229 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: seize control of India from the East India Trading Company. 230 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: And for all your nationalization fans out there, the British 231 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: assuming direct control of India is actually a nationalization. It's 232 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: not actually inherently socialist, guys, you have to be a 233 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: bit smarter than this. But that aside, right, this marks 234 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: an enormous shift in the sort of political economy of violence. 235 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 1: What is happening here is that states are assuming direct 236 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: military control over their colonies intead of operating through corporations. 237 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: And this means that what you see is a shift 238 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: from direct corporate armies to corporations using the state to 239 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: do violence for them. And this doesn't mean that corporations 240 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: don't use force directly today, and it also doesn't mean 241 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 1: that the governments, you know, weren't acting as the armies 242 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: of corporations and like the eighteen hundreds, but what's happening here, 243 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: and specifically the direct seizure of India from the East India, 244 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: the direct seizure of India from the East India Company, 245 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: marks a dramatic shift in the balance of forces away 246 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: from corporations with armies doing violence towards states doing violence 247 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: on their behalf. And this is one of the things, 248 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: alongside sort of slave catchers in the US, that leads 249 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: to the formation of the police. You see this but 250 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: both both both in Britain and in sort of France, right, 251 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: you start to get police agencies that are you know, 252 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: largely tasked putting down their own working class. And this 253 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: is one of the things, one of the sort of 254 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: inexorable marches that happens over the course of the twentieth century, 255 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: and it's also happened in nineteenth century too. There is 256 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: a sort of mass centralization of state and police power, 257 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: and particularly that's an expansion of the bureaucracy. Right the 258 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: American state in eighteen forty is barely a functional state 259 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: by today's standards, right, Like, they have an incredibly difficult 260 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: time even figuring out how many people there are in 261 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: the country that they're provisioning of services is a joke. 262 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: Nobody has like geek cars, Like people don't even have 263 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: birth certificates for the most part. And that's something you know, 264 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: and that's only that changes right over the course of 265 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: sort of the eighteen and nineteen hundreds, is that you 266 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: get a massive bureauocracy. The bureaucracy is built on the 267 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: model of the police, and they get bigger and more powerful, 268 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: and by the time you're you know, you're halfway through 269 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, you get you get a modern standing army. 270 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: And that's something that is very, very weird. The Founders, 271 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: who you know, suck ass in enormous numbers of ways, 272 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: are also fundamentally and deeply opposed to standing armies because 273 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: you know, they are students of Roman history and they 274 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: know that standing armies have this, you know, this sort 275 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: of way of seizing power. But we've led it in 276 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: a situation where you know, they don't really need to, right. 277 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: The US Army is kept in check by the fact 278 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: that it has it basically unlimited budget that increases every year, 279 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: so you can't even like talk about cutting it without 280 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: getting accused of treason. But it didn't used to be 281 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: like that in the eighteen hundreds. Right after a war 282 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: would end, you know, entire parts of the like they like, 283 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: you know, all the US cavalry for example, sometimes which 284 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: just get disbanded. Right, there'd be these massive reductions in 285 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: troop size in behitry wars, and you know that's that 286 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: like doesn't happen anymore, right, But the product of this 287 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: was that, you know, there weren't that many like armed 288 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: agents of the state running around with guns. And that's 289 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: the thing that is completely and utterly ubiquitous in modern 290 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: American life. I mean, modern American life has reached a 291 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: point where people you can't even imagine what it would 292 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: be like if there weren't cops literally everywhere, and if 293 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: you didn't have the ability to call the police about anything. 294 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: And that was just the sort of the state of 295 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: affairs for a lot of the eighteen hundreds in the 296 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: US is that just you know, they're really weren't police. 297 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: And you know, there's kind of midpoint in the level 298 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: of sort of bureaucratic development and the level of sort 299 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: of the bureaucracy of violence, that is the police happens 300 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: after a bit after the Civil War, where there are 301 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: not enough police to develop the kind of sort of 302 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: to deploy against the kind of violence that companies need 303 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: to stop unions informing. And you know there's a secondary problem, right, 304 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: which is okay, so you know there are armed troops 305 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: in a state, but the armed troops are the militia. 306 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: And you know a lot of the times the militia 307 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: can be relied upon to choose striking workers and break them. 308 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: But there's always a chance that you ordered the militia in, 309 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: and the militia are people from the towns where you 310 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: know where the striking workers are from. But this is 311 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: a real problem with sheriffs too, right, is that in 312 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: this period, you get it, you get a lot of 313 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: sheriffs who just won't prosecute workers because the entire town 314 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: and the sheriff are all pro union. And this is 315 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 1: where we come to the pinkertons. But first, and this 316 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: is something that the Pinkertons would have approved of some 317 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: ads and we're back. So who are the Pinkertons. The 318 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: Pinkertons are founded by a guy named Alan Pinkerton. Alan 319 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: Pinkerton's an interesting guy. He's he's kind of a radical 320 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: when he's young, he's like he's a hardcore abolitionist who 321 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: like funds John Brown. Right, there's a whole debate about 322 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: the extent to which she was involved in a sort 323 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: of British workers reform movement called the chartlists every source 324 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: I've read disagrees about how much he was involved in it. 325 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: It's I mean, one's disagreements are basically penning the radiology. 326 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever going to get a 327 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: good answer about how involved in it he is. But 328 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: Pinkerton briefly and kind of by accident, becomes a bounty hunter. 329 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: But he just like walks across it, just runs into 330 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: a camp of people who seem to clearly be counterfeiters. 331 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: And he eventually becomes a detective around Michigan and then 332 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: in Chicago, and then he becomes a postal cop. And 333 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: in the process of being a postal cop, he figures 334 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: out something that is more lucrative. He figured out a 335 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: more lucrative way to detective work than just working for 336 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: the state, which is working for the railway. So by 337 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty he has a full detective agency going that 338 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: he renames the Pinkertons. Now, you know, this is the 339 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties, right, you are rapidly coroaching the Civil War, 340 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: dreaming the Civil War. He is hired by George McClellan, 341 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: the just the worst union general. He runs a spy 342 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: network in the Confederacy that absolutely sucks, Like all the 343 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: spies get caught. His intelligence being awful. It's one of 344 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: the things that leads McClellan to suspect, you know, that 345 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: there's like secretly way more Confederate troops that there actually are. 346 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: So he just never does anything for the entire world. 347 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: He's like the worst union general until he gets replaced. Yeah, 348 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: when McClellan is asked, Pinkerton is also out, but you know, 349 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: the agency is still around and the detectives are initially 350 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: known as Sidered as cinder Dix for complicated a railroading reasons. Yeah, 351 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: I don't know about that one, but it's very funny 352 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: and what they sort of do, right, is in this 353 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: early phase, they have this massive network of sort of 354 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: informants and spies that they sell to the highest bidder. 355 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: They're not sort of when you know, they are detectives 356 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: right in sometimes, but they're not detectives in the Sherlock 357 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: sense where you have a guy who sees a bunch 358 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: of evidence and then uses logic and uses an investigation 359 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 1: to deduce like who did the crime. Pinkerton detectives are operatives. 360 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: They do infiltrations. This is basically their one trick, right 361 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: is they send a guy undercover and then he gets 362 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: people to talk to him, and then they catch the 363 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: guy because someone talked. Right now. The other thing that 364 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: the Pinkertons are really really good at is spinning mythology 365 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: around them. Pinkerton claims that he saved Lincoln from an 366 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: assassination plot, and you know, he successfully convinces Lincoln to 367 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: flee a building in a disguise. Right. The problem is 368 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: that you know, as early as like the next day 369 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: after this like supposed plot happens, assassinating assassination plot happens, 370 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 1: people were already claiming that there was one. And you know, 371 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: I think the evidence for their not being one is 372 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: bolstered by the fact that no one was ever like, 373 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: not only was no one ever tried for this, no 374 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: one was ever even arrested for again, a plot to 375 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: assassinate the president of the United States. So I am 376 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: inclined to suspect that this was fake. So sorians disagree 377 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 1: about this, but he's able to milk this for incredible 378 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: pr right, He's you know, he's like, I'm the guy 379 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: who saved the president. And he does this whole sort 380 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: of like, ah, if I had been there when I 381 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: if I, if I had only been there when Lincoln 382 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: was being gunned down by John wielks Booth, ah, I 383 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: would have saved him. And you know this this makes 384 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:43,239 Speaker 1: him very famous. They also start doing you know, it's 385 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: sort of word noting, right, the kind of crime that 386 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: they're doing, these guys are, they're they're basically a corporate 387 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: anti crime group, right. They they solve crimes, but the 388 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: crimes that they solve are people stealing from corporations. So, 389 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: for example, they do a lot of solving bank robberies. 390 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: They do a lot of security to stop train robbers, 391 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: they do counterfeiting. These are all kinds of crimes that 392 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: affect rich people. And you know, and so the Pinkertons 393 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: are slowly starting to gain this reputation to sort of 394 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: like the hired hands of capital. Now they're also sort 395 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: of doing like frontier outlaws stuff. There's a gang of 396 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: people who this is a gang sort of bandits who 397 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: they very successfully break up, but they also go after 398 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: Jesse James. And Okay, we need to tell the story 399 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: of Jesse James briefly here because it's an important thing 400 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: to get an understanding of what the sort of conflict 401 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: that's going on in the West is at this point. 402 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: And the thing that's incredibly important to understand about the 403 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 1: story of Jesse James versus the Pinkertons is that there 404 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: are no heroes here. Every single person involved in all 405 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: sides is just an absolutely terrible person. So Jesse James 406 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: is an ex Confederate terrorist who somehow managed to make 407 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: robbing trains uncol by doing it and a KKK rope 408 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: with the aim of like restoring the honor of the Confederacy. 409 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: So this sucks. And this is where part of the 410 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: sort of like rebel flag like that, part of the 411 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: sort of like lost cause myth those comes from. Right there, 412 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: are you know, there are these sort of frontier outlaws 413 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: who are like ex Confederates whose things like yeah, we're 414 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: like against the man and like the man is like 415 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: you know, the north Right. But these people suck right. 416 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: These are these are these are these are people who 417 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: fought and died for slavery. I Jesse James in particular, 418 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: like he's again he's in this group of like gorillas 419 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: who are fighting in Kansas and Missouri, and they do 420 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: they do things that are genuinely unspeakable. So these people 421 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: suck right. But the problem is the people going after 422 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: them are the Pinkertons. And we're gonna learn a lot 423 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: about the Pinkertons by what they managed to accomplish by 424 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 1: going after again ex Confederate terrorists who are like some 425 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: of the worst people whove ever lived. So the Pinkertons 426 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 1: take this case in eighteen seventy one. He sends in 427 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: a bunch of agents try to infiltrate the gang, and 428 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: Jesse James just like smokes them all. So, in a 429 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: very sort of modern cop move, the Pinkertons do a 430 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: raid on Jesse James's house. So they throw in this 431 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: weird pseudo It's a very weird kind of explosive device 432 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: thing that I don't know. They claim that they were 433 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: just trying to scare like the family out of the 434 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: house so they could arrest them. But the family sees 435 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: this thing that looks like a bomb and they throw 436 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: it into their fireplace and it blows up, and instead 437 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: of smoking the family out, they have now blown up 438 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: Jesse James's nine year old step brother and maimed his mom. 439 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: So the Pinkertons absolutely suck right like so far in 440 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: there at Kemp to catch Jesse James. They have managed 441 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: to blow up a child and maame a woman. Now 442 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: you could ask the question, right, Okay, so they have 443 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: killed a child, they have maimed a woman. Get Jesse James. No, no, 444 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: they don't. They never get him, because that's what happens 445 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: when you know, you have an ex Confederate in places 446 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: where with a bunch of ex confederates, with a bunch 447 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: of people who support the Confederacy right, they won't turn 448 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: over their own people. And you know, and when the 449 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: people they're going up against are the Pinkertons, who are 450 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: like the hired guns of Northern Capital, a bunch of people, 451 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: you know what happens is a bunch of grand people 452 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: end up dead, and yeah, but both sides of this 453 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: are incredibly deeply evil. Jesse James is later shot by 454 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: one of his own men, and yeah, that is the 455 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: famous story of Jesse James versus the Pinkertons, which I 456 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: think is useful in establishing that, like God, like, the 457 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: South are obviously the bad guys in the Civil War, 458 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: but a lot of the people in the Union are 459 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: sort of genuinely awful hired gun for capital people. And 460 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: you know that's not so much of a big deal 461 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: dreamed the war, but after the war, you know, you 462 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: got these battles just like, oh God, everyone here is 463 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: like everyone here should simply die now. Ellen Pinkerton dies 464 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty six, and he is replaced by his 465 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: even worse sons. And at this point the Pinkertons cease 466 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: even sort of the pretense of being a detective agency, 467 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: and they devote themselves full time to being strike breakers. 468 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: Now they have spies everywhere. They have you know, over 469 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: a thousand of them at their peak, spread across the 470 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: dozens and dozens and dozens of unions. They are spying 471 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: on meetings or appointed to the pinkertons. And this allows corporations. 472 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: For example, if you know who's in a union meeting, right, 473 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: you can just fire all of them. And this is 474 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: especially easy. And you know in this sort of pre 475 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties period where like there is no protected right 476 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: to strike, right like you if you stop working, that 477 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: is illegal. The other thing they do is provide quote 478 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: unquote security for corporations Traine strikes. What this looks like 479 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: practice is shooting people. And you know, sometimes those people 480 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: are striking workers, like the three strikers they killed in 481 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania Colt strike of eighteen ninety. Sometimes they just 482 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: shoot random bystanders, like the random guy they shoteen in 483 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six, while providing security. And you know, again 484 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: when you're shooting a random bystander, you have to ask 485 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: like security for who, Like who is the security you're 486 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: providing for when you're just shooting random people, you know, 487 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: anominally it's for the boss that's in a dog strike. 488 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: And sometimes, like in eighteen seventy seven, they shoot children 489 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: where they shot and killed a fifteen year old you 490 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: a Jersey coal wharf strike, you know, and they do 491 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: stuff like this all the time, right, there's a famous 492 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: incident in Chicago where a bunch of people are yelling 493 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: at them because again the thinker doesn't have a really 494 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: bad reputation among workers at this point. And you know, 495 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: there's there's a point where they're they're going by on 496 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: a train and people yelled the train and the Pinkertons 497 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: just bomb by, taking out the rifles and shooting four 498 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: people out the window. So you know, these are these 499 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: are good people, TM right. The other thing they do 500 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: is they start getting into breaking strikes by being a 501 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: company you can hire to import scabs, and this culminates 502 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: in the Homestead strike. Again, there's another thing. There's like 503 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: a giant Bastard's episode on, but we'll do we'll do 504 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: a short version of the Homestead strike. So the Homestet 505 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: strike is this giant confrontation between steel workers and the 506 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: forces of Andrew Carnagie and Henry Frick. Carnagian Frick like 507 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: locked the union out of the factory and they call 508 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: a Pinkerton army to seize control of the town of Homestead. 509 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: This is from the book Inventing the Pinkertons. Quote. By 510 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: the end of June, he had built around the mills, 511 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: a protective twelve foot fence that included rifle holes, waterman's 512 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: capable of blasting strikers with boiling water, and wires attached 513 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: to a generator which could be electrified. In response, workers 514 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: dubbed the mills Fort Frick. Now striking steel workers and 515 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: other residents of Homestead. Here the pinkertons are coming, and they, 516 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, they that the pinkertons are trying to land 517 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: on these like invasion barges that they've modified, and so 518 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: the homestead people go try to stop the barges, and 519 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: the Pinkertons start shooting at them. And this is this 520 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: is another thing that's very interesting about this whole story 521 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: is that, Okay, every account at the time agrees that 522 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: the first person the people who started shooting first with pinkertons. 523 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: Later accounts suddenly, like mysteriously later on it suddenly start 524 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: to claim it like, well, nobody really knows she started 525 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: the shooting in these fights, or like maybe it was 526 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: a worker. But like again, everyone at the time gose 527 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: it was the pinkertons. So I and given given what 528 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: we know about the track record of pinkertons are shooting 529 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: children of shooting random people yelling at them outside of 530 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: a train of shooting, just literally random people on the streets. 531 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: We can be pretty sure the Pinkertons started this, and 532 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: but you know, the workers in Homestead are heavily armed, 533 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: and this starts a massive gun battle. I'm gonna read 534 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: from inventing the Pinkertons again. This serious battle woul the 535 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: next fourteen hours. After an initial surge, the Pinkertons were 536 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: pinned down in their barges. After several hours, the crowd 537 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: attempted to sink the barges by cannon fire. Residents borrowed 538 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: the cannon that had been that the city used for 539 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: commemorations and by the way, that that's a civil war 540 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: cannon that they're using it in eighteen ninety to try 541 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: to sink these boats. The crowd also set burning railcars 542 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: rolling towards the barges and sprayed oil into their river, 543 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: which they attempted a light on fire in hopaes of 544 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: burning the Pikertons out of their barges. The lubricating oil 545 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: thrown onto the water proved impossible to set a flame. 546 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: So the Pickertons like try to surrender, but by this 547 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: one people hate them so much that every they showed 548 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: this four times and each time someone will hold up 549 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: a white flag and a sniper will shoot the flag 550 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: and refuse to let them surrender. On try five, the 551 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: Picckertons are finally allowed to surrender and the Pickersons are crushed, 552 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: but unfortunately, the state militia is brought in to sort 553 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: of break the strike and the union movement in Pennsylvania 554 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: is essentially destroyed. But why this is terrible from the Pinkertons, 555 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: and they start trying to do like a giant pr 556 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: op to sort of recover the reputation, and a lot 557 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: of what the sort of popular image of the Pinkertons 558 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: right comes from the pr op the agency does, like 559 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: after the homes distruct that gets reproduced by like TV 560 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: producers later on. So fast forwarding a little bit to 561 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: some other stuff that they were involved in. In late 562 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: nineteen oh five, someone blew up the notoriously anti union 563 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: governor of Idaho who'd sent troops to kill striking workers 564 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: a few years ago. Now Idaho hires a Pinkerton detective 565 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: to just torture a guy into confessing to the murder 566 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: and then also claiming that like basically every instance of 567 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: violence in the last five years in that part of 568 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: the US was committed by the IWW, who are THEWW 569 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: are a very very radical union whose thing basically was 570 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: that society should be run by like confederations of direct 571 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: democratic unions like run you know, all all of society, 572 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: all production should be run by workers in these in 573 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, in in in the form of like one 574 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: giant direct democratic union. And people hate this, and by people, 575 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: I mean like bosses absolutely hate this. Dow IWW very 576 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: popularly with workers. Bosses are going to spend the next 577 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: rest of there's just murdering them, you know. But having 578 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: tortured this guy into saying, into fingering the industrial workers 579 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: of the world in this conspiracy, they get Big Bill Haywood, 580 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: who is one of the most famous and like successful 581 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: organizers of the AWW, and several other IWW leaders kidnapped 582 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: and taken into Idaho to stand trial for murder, which 583 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: again they had nothing to do with. Heywood is defended 584 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: by Clarence Darrow of the infamous Scopes monkey trial, and 585 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: Heywood gets off, but the case to serious damage to 586 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: the WW. If you want to learn more about this 587 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: whole story, go listen to Cool People who did cool stuff. 588 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: There's two episodes about the IWW in this period called 589 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: the IWW In the Hobbo you saved free speech. It's 590 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: good stuff, you know. I should also briefly mention, right, 591 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: another thing that the Pinkertons do is Okay, so if 592 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: someone if someone's wanted in one state, right, instead of 593 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: having to like make you know, the government having to 594 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: like the state government have to making requests, have to 595 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: be having to make request to another state in order 596 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: to get them to extradite someone, they would just have 597 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: the Pingertons kidnap them. This is this is this is 598 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: one of the sort of big services they provide. They 599 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: also seemed it's very unclear. I don't know, this historical 600 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: record is a bit muddled. They seem also to have 601 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: been people you could hire if so if like your 602 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: spouse was trying to divorce you, which sucks. Is deeply evil. 603 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: They do sort of lots more deeply evil stuff, which 604 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: we will get into after these ads. All right, we're back, 605 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: So speaking of deeply evil stuff, they also send one 606 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: hundred detectives to break a strike of the mostly black 607 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: Brotherhood of Timber Workers, which is an IWW affiliate in Louisiana. 608 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: Now they break this They try to break this union 609 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: by walking into a union meeting shooting forty four people 610 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: and killing four of them. There are like forty more 611 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: stories of a guy with the Pinkerton walks in and 612 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,919 Speaker 1: shoots amongst people that I could put here. I had 613 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: to find the limit at some point to how many 614 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: stories about Pinkerton's murdering people that I could I could 615 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: sort of put. But you know, there's an interesting shift 616 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: that starts to happen in the in sort of as 617 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 1: the nineteen hundred, you know, the nineteen hundreds turn into 618 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: nineteen tens. The Pinkertons start to figure out that it's 619 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: more effective to form mobs of vigilantes than it is 620 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,439 Speaker 1: to fight unions directly. And there's a few benefits here, right, 621 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: There's less danger to Pinkerton detectives themselves. It's easier to 622 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: deploy large numbers of people. Instead of having to sort 623 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: of like pay an enormous amount of money for bunch 624 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: of like eight hundred detectives and weapons and logistics, you 625 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: would just sort of whip up a mob, we get 626 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: them to do the shooting, right. The Pinkerdons also get 627 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,879 Speaker 1: plausible deniability, which is very helpful for their reputation. And 628 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, the Pinkertons are very much ahead of the 629 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: curve here. The government, you know, who is going to 630 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: displace the Pinkertons is sort of the main force opposing 631 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: the IWW in later sort of like Cio union organizing 632 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: that you know, turn into the two Red Scares. They're 633 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: going to start taking pages from the Pinkerton's book, and 634 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: eventually they are going to you know, instead of like 635 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: sending the US Army to invade Nicarago, which is what 636 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: they would have done in the eighteen hundreds, by you know, 637 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,879 Speaker 1: by the time he gets in the nineteen eighties, right, 638 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: they are sending people to train Nicaraguan desk squads. And 639 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: so we can track the shift here. Right as the 640 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: nineteenth century comes to a close and we get to 641 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: sort of the October Revolution of the height of the 642 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: Red Scare, we're in a place where they're starting to 643 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: be enough cops and enough federal agents to do the 644 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: job the Pinkertons had done in previous generations. And you know, 645 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: there's sort of robust arguments in the sort of historiography 646 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: about to what extent J Edgar Hoover and the FBI 647 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: were influenced by the Pinkertons. I think there's decent evidence 648 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: that they that they were influenced by them. But the 649 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: FBI kind of turns into what the Pinkertons are. You know, 650 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 1: they're the people who suddenly are like showing up and 651 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,919 Speaker 1: shooting people, showing up and arresting union organizers, deporting union 652 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: organizers from the country. But this puts the Pinkertons in 653 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 1: kind of a weird spot, right, The Pinkerton name has 654 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: become synonymous with sort of this this kind of like 655 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: they're called sort of like feudal retainers, right, these sort 656 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: of lawless private armies that are not supposed to exist 657 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: in a democracy. And so you know in the nineteen 658 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 1: thirties when the Wagner Act like makes strikes legal, right. 659 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: I talked about the Wagner Acts a long time ago, 660 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: an episode called The Eden Makes Us Strong. But after this, 661 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: they tried Robert Pinkerton, the second who's the new sort 662 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: of owner with the Pinkertons, tries to do a rebrand 663 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: and he has this great quote. That's quote he's talking 664 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: about union busting. That is a phase of our business 665 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: that we are not particularly delighted or proud of and 666 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: we're out of it. However, there was nothing illegal about 667 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: it at the time. Now, okay, you could say a 668 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 1: lot about what was or wasn't illegal in a period 669 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: when you know, you could order a drink that was 670 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: cocaine mixed with wine and you know, you could just 671 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: get like opium prescribe to your baby, But torturing and 672 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,919 Speaker 1: murdering people was still illegal back then. Now, I guess 673 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: if you're you know, if you really wanted to have fun, 674 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: you can get into an argument that like, nowhere in 675 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: the Constitution is murdered specifically banned, but like you don't 676 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: have fun with that. But FDR and the New Dealers 677 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: go after the Pinkertons very hard. And this is a 678 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: lot of interesting effects. What it means is, on the 679 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: one hand, you can't have some guy with a detective 680 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: badge who works for a corporation walked into a union 681 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: meeting and start the killing. But it also means that 682 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: when you need someone to smash a union by force, 683 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,040 Speaker 1: it's going to be the state doing it. And the 684 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: aposteosis of this sort of one of the internal contradictions 685 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: that destroys a new Deal is that it's reliance on 686 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: the state to contain the worst exis of capitalism means 687 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: that you know, they have in turn directly enormously empowered 688 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: the state and the state's military capacity. And this means 689 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: that in the nineteen eighties, unions are going to be 690 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: destroyed by the state that the New Deal had built. 691 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: The Pickerchins are replaced by Hoover and the g Men, 692 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: and the g Men are eventually sort of become known 693 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: as the dreaded modern fat who you know, lurks at 694 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: every doorstep eating babies and is the terror of every 695 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: sort of political movement in the US. Now. The Pinkertons, 696 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: for for their part, right with union busting now technically illegal, 697 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: and when I say union busting like I mean walking in, 698 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: shooting people stop and performing a union, they start working 699 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: basically as regular security guards. And then they move on 700 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 1: to selling surveillance equipment and trainings for government organizations. And 701 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 1: this reflects a kind of large shift in what what 702 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: kinds of military operations the corporations run, which is that 703 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: instead of directly running armies or hiring groups like the 704 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: Pinkertons to do violence for them, now what they're in 705 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: the business of is intelligence operations. And this changes the 706 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: way that corporations kill people enormously. You know, when when 707 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: Coca Cola now needs to kill union organizers, right, they 708 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: have paramilitaries for this. Now, some of these guys are contractors, 709 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: some of them are paid under the table, some of 710 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 1: them are in it for ideology, some of it for money. 711 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: But it's not, you know, it's not quite like Coca 712 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: Cola has its own military force like it would have 713 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: been in the eighteen hundreds, in the early eighteen hundreds. 714 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: It's also not there is just like a private but 715 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:45,439 Speaker 1: there's not like it's not they're not. They're not also 716 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: not like hiring a specific private military contractor. Right the 717 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: way they do, way they do it tends to be 718 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: they you know, sort of semi clandestinely arm paramilitary. Now, 719 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: there are limited exceptions where sort of like oil companies 720 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: will have at armies and places where civil wars are 721 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: going on, but that's usually a thing that happens when 722 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: they're in a place that doesn't have state capacity. When 723 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 1: they're in a place that does have state capacity, like 724 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: for example, Nigeria, you get a very very different story. 725 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 1: So Nigeria is a major oil producer, and this has 726 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: a number of consequences on the places where that oil 727 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: is extracted. A huge amount of it comes from the 728 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: Niger Delta, where the government faces an almost perennial insurgency. So, okay, 729 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: why is there an insurgency there? 730 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:29,399 Speaker 2: Right? 731 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: Part of the reason is that there is an indescribable 732 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: amount of wealth coming out of the oil and Niger Delta, 733 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: and that money goes mostly to I mean, might I 734 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: say mostly ninety percent of it, right, goes to Nigerian 735 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: elites and corrupt for and oil companies. And you know, 736 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: another part of the reason this turns into an insurgency 737 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: is that people try nonviolence of disobedience in the Niger 738 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: Delta to protest the sort of horrific environmental consequences of 739 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: companies like Shell doing oil extraction, you know. And they 740 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: have these marches that will draw out three hundred thousand 741 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: people in places where this is half of the population, 742 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,800 Speaker 1: half of the total population of the ethnic group being affected. 743 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: The Nigerian government responds by publicly executing one of the 744 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 1: movement's leaders, the famous activist Ken Sarrowewa, by hanging him 745 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: and then dissolving his body and limes we couldn't be buried, 746 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: which is a real British empire shit. And okay, so 747 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: at this point you've come to the sort of crossroad 748 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: of a nonviolent movement, right where the government's answer to 749 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,319 Speaker 1: non violence we will publicly hang you and you get 750 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: you get to this question do you take up arms? 751 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: And the answer is yeah, a lot of people do. Right. 752 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: This is this is this is a very complicated insurgency 753 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways that you know, we can't 754 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: do justice here too. But I want to read something 755 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: from this interview from a guy for the Movement for 756 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: the Emancipation of the Niger Delta Men, which is one 757 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: of the like many many, many, many many like militant 758 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,720 Speaker 1: groups that appear in the Delta over the last twenty 759 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: five years. Quote, this is our territory. The soldiers dare 760 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: not come here. Now they came, and we defeat them. 761 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: He says. We are civilized people, educated people, and we 762 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: do not want our children to be deprived as we 763 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: have been deprived so other people can get rich from 764 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: what is under our feet. The oil companies have had 765 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 1: many years to treat us rights. They have never done that. 766 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: Now we are making them think now if this is 767 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: you know, eighteen twenty, right, and Shell is dealing with 768 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: people taking up arms and cutting off their ability to 769 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,919 Speaker 1: sort of like extract profits of oil. They would form 770 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: an army of semi literate Belgian and British barbarians, arm 771 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: them with cannons and conquer the region and in place 772 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: the entire area under direct corporate rule. You know, if 773 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: this was say, like the eighteen nineties, right, they would 774 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: hire the Pinkertons and the Pinkertons to go shoot these 775 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: people for them. But this is the nineteen nineties, in 776 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: the two thousands, so instead, what Shell does is literally 777 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: pay the salaries of Nigerian cops you go slaughter protesters 778 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: in the streets. And eventually they moved to spending hundreds 779 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,360 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars just just between two thousand and 780 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 1: seven two thousand and nine alone directly funding equipping and army, 781 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,760 Speaker 1: the Nigerian army and a special like war crimes task 782 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: force called the Joint Task Force the JFT, which is 783 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: this like it's this sort of incredible thing where the army, 784 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: the navy, and the police do a fusion dance to 785 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,360 Speaker 1: massacre civilians. And you know, I say this hundreds and 786 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: millions of dollars. Right, that's an underestimate, that's just three years. 787 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: That's just what we know about. The actual total that 788 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,759 Speaker 1: they sunk into sort of like literally funding the Nigerian 789 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: Army is enormous. Now, what's interesting here is that Shell 790 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: does have its own security guards, but the ratio of 791 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: what they spend in the Nigerian Army versus what they 792 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: spend on their own security guards is two to one. 793 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: And this goes to demonstrate the point that I've sort 794 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: of been making this episode, right, which is that there's 795 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: been a shift in you know, if you are a 796 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 1: company like Shell, right who has a need, you know, 797 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: who are horrifically exploiting a bunch of people to the 798 00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 1: point where you need to shoot them in order to 799 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: keep them in line. Instead of going to like a 800 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: private detective agency or having your own army, they are 801 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: increasingly simply funding the state. And you know this means 802 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: that right again, instead of the Pinkertons, the actual trigger 803 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 1: pullers are cops. They are the police, There are the military, 804 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: they're weird special forces groups. And you know where that 805 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,720 Speaker 1: sort of leaves space for groups like the Pinkertons now 806 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: is the area that's left for them is in corporate intelligence, 807 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: and this seems to be most of what the Pinkertons 808 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: have been up to recently. Amazon hired them in the 809 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: last few years to work and to work with their 810 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: intelligence division, the Global Security Operations Center, which they use 811 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: to try to stomp out union organizing in their warehouses. 812 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 1: And Amazon isn't just sort of spying on union organizers, 813 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,879 Speaker 1: spying on basically every social group but they can get 814 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,840 Speaker 1: their hands on. Here's from WECE. In twenty nineteen, Amazon 815 00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,120 Speaker 1: monitored the yellowfst movement known as the jele jean as 816 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 1: roots uprising for economic just to spread across France and 817 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 1: solidarity movements in Vienna and protest against state repression in Iran. 818 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: They've been deployed deployed againt strikes of communication workers in 819 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,319 Speaker 1: West Virginia, Google and Facebook deploys them against their own 820 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,240 Speaker 1: employees to prodout leakers. Now, this is all in line 821 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: with the pivot of sort of corporate repression towards mass surveillance. Interestingly, 822 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: the Pinkertons have been planting stories in the press about 823 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: going back to their roots as mercenaries, pitching themselves. As 824 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: you know, the force that can stop climate chaos with 825 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,720 Speaker 1: ex military forces. The company claims to have been deployed 826 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: by corporations in Puerto Rico after the hurricane and after 827 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: Hurricane Ria in twenty seventeen. I don't know if that's true. 828 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: This is possible, but again it's something that they have 829 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: to be very careful with the Pinkertons is that they 830 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: are very, very brand obsessed, even though they're now owned 831 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: by like a different sort of Swedish security company, and 832 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,799 Speaker 1: they lie constantly, so it's very difficult to stort up 833 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,319 Speaker 1: the myth from the fact when myth making has been 834 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,280 Speaker 1: such a vital part of their branding from the beginning. 835 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 1: For another example, here's from New York Times magazine. Among 836 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: their most popular news services is the Pinkerton Dedicated Professional, 837 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 1: in which agents join a client's company like any other 838 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: new hire, allowing them to provide intel one employees. By 839 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, the agency said it could count among its 840 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: clients about eighty percent of Fortune one thousand companies. Are 841 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,319 Speaker 1: these numbers correct? Who knows? They absolutely could be lying right. 842 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:37,240 Speaker 1: On the other hand, here's Gizmoto talking about the current 843 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,440 Speaker 1: reach of the Pinkertons in Magic the gathering. There are 844 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,360 Speaker 1: other connections between Wizards of the Coast and the Pinkerton Agency. 845 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,840 Speaker 1: Robert M. Klemmick, who has been the director of Security 846 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: Risk Management at Hasbro, Inc. Which is the parent company 847 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,799 Speaker 1: Wizards of the Coast for twelve years, was previously the 848 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,280 Speaker 1: director of supply chain Security Practice at Pinkerton Consulting and Investigations. 849 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: The current manager of Global Investigations just all to a 850 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: floor of Pinkerton agents. So what we saw in the 851 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,279 Speaker 1: fact that you know, Wizards of the Coast said the 852 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: Pinkertons after a guy who made a YouTube video showing 853 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:15,440 Speaker 1: some cards that he bought from someone else, is you know, 854 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,160 Speaker 1: you can see in that the arc of the arc 855 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,359 Speaker 1: of of what the Pinkertons are trying to do. Right, 856 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,359 Speaker 1: You have, on the one hand, the Pinkertons falling back 857 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,399 Speaker 1: into their sort of intelligence role. You also have them 858 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 1: like specifically trading on their reputation to intimidate people. And 859 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 1: you know, the reputation they acquired by killing unfathomable numbers 860 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,120 Speaker 1: of people between the eighteen hundreds, which they use to 861 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 1: sort of intimidate people by just sort of the power 862 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: of their reputation. You can see something very interesting, which 863 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,279 Speaker 1: is that the Pinkertons don't arrest Dan Cannon directly, right, 864 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,360 Speaker 1: They're able to leave with the sort of goods. But 865 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 1: what they threatened Dan Cannon with is the regular police. 866 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,880 Speaker 1: And that is I think a very important aspect of 867 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,560 Speaker 1: what the story actually is, which is it's a story 868 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: about the modern division of labor, of violence against people 869 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,400 Speaker 1: who corporations don't like, and that division of labor runs 870 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: through security. You know, you have your major, you have 871 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: a major corporation. That corporation has its own security division. 872 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 1: That security division is connected to the Pinkertons. They use 873 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: the Pinkertons as an intelligence network, and they have done 874 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,800 Speaker 1: several times now. And then you know, when it comes 875 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: time to you know, you can use the Pinkertons as 876 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: like the people will the stop you booth. But when 877 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,239 Speaker 1: it comes time to actually do violence against someone, when 878 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,359 Speaker 1: it comes time to arrest someone, that's the state's job. 879 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 1: And that, I think is the thing that's that you know, 880 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: that that's very important to understand about the way all 881 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 1: of this stuff works is that the thing that is 882 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,279 Speaker 1: true now about the year twenty twenty three that was 883 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,319 Speaker 1: not true about the year like eighteen seventy three. Is 884 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,960 Speaker 1: that the the sort of primary driver of corporate violence 885 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,320 Speaker 1: in you know, in in in the US and abroad 886 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: is not necessarily private security companies. It is the state, 887 00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,000 Speaker 1: and it is the police. And yeah, this has been 888 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 1: it could happen here. Uh, the police, suck acab get 889 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: rid of them. 890 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,760 Speaker 2: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 891 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,560 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 892 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,799 Speaker 2: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 893 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,279 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, 894 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 2: you can find sources for It could Happen here, updated 895 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:40,080 Speaker 2: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.