Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big
Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show,
Speaker 1: or welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners,
Speaker 1: wherever you are in the world, it is so great
Speaker 1: as always to have you here, back for another episode
Speaker 1: as we break down the psychology of our twenties. There
Speaker 1: is no pain I think more unique and inexplainable than
Speaker 1: the pain of unreciprocated and unrequited love. It feels very misplaced.
Speaker 1: It feels like a lot of people don't really understand
Speaker 1: what we're saying or what we're trying to communicate. When
Speaker 1: we say I love this person so deeply and they
Speaker 1: don't love me back, and I don't know how to
Speaker 1: move on. It is such a bizarre state to be in.
Speaker 1: We're so used to heartbreak coming from a mutual affection,
Speaker 1: or the pain of loving someone only occurring when they
Speaker 1: loved you back. But honestly, I think that it's just
Speaker 1: as easy to be perhaps in love, obsessed, overwhelmed by
Speaker 1: your feelings for someone, even though they are completely one sided,
Speaker 1: and in all honesty, I think it can really drive
Speaker 1: us a bit mad. It can drive us to become
Speaker 1: someone that we never thought we'd be. It can drive
Speaker 1: us into a completely strange and confused mental state, not
Speaker 1: really knowing.
Speaker 2: Where to turn. But we do actually have a word
Speaker 2: for this feeling. As confusing as it may be for
Speaker 2: you right now, as chaotic as it may be, what
Speaker 2: your feeling is limerens this involuntary or consuming sense of
Speaker 2: love and obsession with somebody who doesn't feel the same
Speaker 2: way about us. It's this attachment that we can't let
Speaker 2: go of, and it impacts us in so many ways,
Speaker 2: and it impacts so many of us. But we, I think,
Speaker 2: just feel a little bit ashamed to talk about it,
Speaker 2: mainly because it feels so much like a love for us.
Speaker 2: But we kind of know that from the outside, or
Speaker 2: to a stranger or a friend, it wouldn't look that way.
Speaker 2: Maybe we think that we'd be called dramatic, or that
Speaker 2: we're overreacting, we're too sensitive, we're romanticizing things too much.
Speaker 2: Whatever it is, we feel like there is no place
Speaker 2: for this feeling, that it's not a valid one to have.
Speaker 2: But I really do think that it is. I think
Speaker 2: that it is actually a lot more normal than you
Speaker 2: would think, and that there is a lot of valid
Speaker 2: explanations as to why we feel this, why so many
Speaker 2: of us find ourselves in this state. Let's bring that
Speaker 2: all out into the open today and really discuss what
Speaker 2: causes us to enter into this space of limerens. I
Speaker 2: have my own stories of limerens that will hopefully bring
Speaker 2: you some comfort as well. You know, when I was
Speaker 2: twenty one, I spent about I honestly would have to say,
Speaker 2: almost two years, maybe a year and a half, madly
Speaker 2: in love with someone who was very clear he did
Speaker 2: not feel the same way. And even after I kind
Speaker 2: of recovered from that, that continued into my mid twenties,
Speaker 2: where I would meet people new people and immediately romanticize
Speaker 2: a very grand future together. After the first date and
Speaker 2: even after the fifth, sixth, seventh date, when it became
Speaker 2: clear that they were not thinking the same thing, I
Speaker 2: just couldn't let it go. And I don't like to
Speaker 2: use the word crazy, but it did feel like I
Speaker 2: was slowly going crazy, like this is not a normal response.
Speaker 2: The more that I've paid attention and learned about the
Speaker 2: evidence behind this, the studies, the psychology behind it. The
Speaker 2: more I realized that actually this was something that was
Speaker 2: driven by a much deeper need, a much deeper sensation,
Speaker 2: and a much deeper explanation. And now that I'm in
Speaker 2: this like very healthy, happy relationship, I can kind of
Speaker 2: find a balance between I wouldn't want to say, like
Speaker 2: calm and healthy love, but sustainable reciprocal love and this
Speaker 2: like all consuming passion. So let's talk about it today.
Speaker 2: I know it may be uncomfortable at times, but I
Speaker 2: do think that that innate and intense capacity to love
Speaker 2: is something very beautiful and something that we can find
Speaker 2: a space for. We're going to break down exactly what
Speaker 2: limerens is when it was first given a name, the
Speaker 2: four stages of Limerens. I don't know if you know
Speaker 2: what those are. But also why it is that some
Speaker 2: of us just feel more intensely than others, what gets
Speaker 2: us stuck in the cycle, and finally, how we can
Speaker 2: slowly find a pathway out of this state, how we
Speaker 2: can move on from unrequited love, even if that idea
Speaker 2: feels quite painful right now, even if you feel like
Speaker 2: you are relying on this person in this emotional state,
Speaker 2: as a crutch, I promise that there is closure to
Speaker 2: be had, there is hope to be had, and hopefully
Speaker 2: this episode brings that to you. So I'm very excited,
Speaker 2: passionate about this subject actually, as a fellow person who
Speaker 2: has been in a limberance state more than I can
Speaker 2: probably count. There is a lot to discuss and hopefully
Speaker 2: you learn something, hopefully you heal something without further ado,
Speaker 2: let us get into the psychology of limerens. Even if
Speaker 2: you've never heard of the term limerence before, you've probably
Speaker 2: experienced the sensation or seeing someone else experience it and
Speaker 2: just not really had the label. Limmerens at face value,
Speaker 2: may be seen as a kind of unrequited love, where
Speaker 2: we feel intensely about someone who does not reciprocate. It
Speaker 2: is a lot more than that, though, for the people
Speaker 2: who are experiencing it. It is a deep and sometimes
Speaker 2: intrusive obsession with this person, and it feels so so
Speaker 2: similar to passionate love, maybe even mutual love, but it
Speaker 2: has this melancholic undertone that you know this person doesn't
Speaker 2: feel the same way. You know this is not someone
Speaker 2: you can hold on to who will return the feelings,
Speaker 2: and yet, despite that knowledge, there is not much that
Speaker 2: you feel is in your power that you can do
Speaker 2: to move on. You may have tried many, many things,
Speaker 2: none of it has really worked. So the term was
Speaker 2: created by the psychologist Dorothy Tinov in nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 2: so kind of actually a lot further back than you
Speaker 2: might expect. Dorothy is actually a really fascinating woman because
Speaker 2: she's a great deal of her life basically wanting to
Speaker 2: understand love, the different kinds of love we experience, how
Speaker 2: love differs between us, the science behind love, desire, compassion, passion,
Speaker 2: all of those things. And it was through that kind
Speaker 2: of scientific exploration and work that she started interviewing people
Speaker 2: for her second book, which was very appropriately titled Love
Speaker 2: and Limeerates, and she interviewed over five hundred people on
Speaker 2: the topic of love. She got their testimonials, she had
Speaker 2: them answer, you know, questionnaires, surveys, and from this extensive data,
Speaker 2: what she saw was that there was the typical kind
Speaker 2: of love that we would expect called amirates, where people
Speaker 2: are kind of equally in love with each other, they're
Speaker 2: set on building a life together. It's very reciprocal. And
Speaker 2: then she also identified this state of limerens, which she
Speaker 2: hadn't really you know, nobody had really given it a
Speaker 2: label before. It was this combination of infatuation, love, sickness,
Speaker 2: passionate love, and what very much felt like romantic love
Speaker 2: to the people experiencing it. It just wasn't fulfilled. Actually,
Speaker 2: most researchers would actually say that limerence has a lot
Speaker 2: in common with passionate love, and we should know that.
Speaker 2: You know, the word passion initially meant agony, which kind
Speaker 2: of goes to show that there is a lot of
Speaker 2: agony in this situation. There is both a beauty and
Speaker 2: a pain kind of intertwined with this state of longing
Speaker 2: and love. In fact, actually there was further research on
Speaker 2: this kind of emotional experience which seems to determine that
Speaker 2: the very unattainable nature of our goal of being with
Speaker 2: this person is actually what makes the state of limerence
Speaker 2: so powerful, the fact that we know deep down that
Speaker 2: we can't have it. That is one explanation, and there's
Speaker 2: also the other explanation that because we are given occasional
Speaker 2: positive reinforcement. You know, someone looks at you across the room,
Speaker 2: they text you back every now and again, you get
Speaker 2: to see them occasionally. That positive reinforcement actually keeps the
Speaker 2: hope of your affection alive, you think that it might
Speaker 2: eventually be realized. To further see this kind of inaction,
Speaker 2: this you know, state of longing that seems to contribute
Speaker 2: to itself, that seems to grow on itself based on
Speaker 2: occasional positive reinforcement. We also need to explain the four
Speaker 2: stages of limerens, which are attraction, obsession, elation, and frustration,
Speaker 2: and finally resolution, which is not so much as a stage,
Speaker 2: I guess, but where we exit the cycle, where we
Speaker 2: finally heal or move on, which is very much possible.
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that that is very clear
Speaker 2: and articulated. It is very much possible to move on
Speaker 2: from limereates. Let's talk through these stages though. So Attraction
Speaker 2: is when that kind of intoxicating spark first connect. Maybe
Speaker 2: it's a first date where you felt an instant bond
Speaker 2: or particularly deep conversation, something that has emotionally connected you
Speaker 2: in a way that makes you see potential and really
Speaker 2: fall for this person. It feels again very similar to
Speaker 2: falling in love. The euphoria, the adrenaline constantly thinking about
Speaker 2: this person, and what that leads to is obsession. Your
Speaker 2: thoughts become consumed with this person at work, at school,
Speaker 2: when you're driving, when you're with your friends, when you're
Speaker 2: zoning out, you're always kind of in this fantasy scenario
Speaker 2: or rethinking something that has occurred. You bring them up
Speaker 2: in conversation as often as possible. You're thinking about all
Speaker 2: the ways that you could potentially see them this weekend.
Speaker 2: Their kind of words and actions are also constantly being
Speaker 2: analyzed for signs of interest or rejection. You know, did
Speaker 2: they text you back a little bit quicker today, did
Speaker 2: they linger? Was that song on their Instagram story about you?
Speaker 2: Did they talk to you a little bit differently? Your
Speaker 2: mood suddenly becomes heavily dependent on their perceived reactions to you.
Speaker 2: This is when we kind of get to the state
Speaker 2: of elation and frustration, otherwise known as kind of the
Speaker 2: emotional rollercoaster stage, which may be all familiar to some
Speaker 2: of you. You kind of alternate between feeling infatuated and
Speaker 2: validated to exhausted and hopeless. It's been likened in this
Speaker 2: way to kind of an emotional drug addiction that is
Speaker 2: insatiable and uncontrollable. You have these crushing lows followed by
Speaker 2: these hugely euphoric highs, and you start to feel more
Speaker 2: desperate for those highs, but also more distressed when you
Speaker 2: don't receive them, which I think is basically your mind
Speaker 2: starting to pick up on the fact that this is
Speaker 2: a state of longing, This is an inconsistent relationship, this
Speaker 2: is an inconsistent bond, and it doesn't really know where
Speaker 2: to place, that doesn't really know what to do with
Speaker 2: it because the pursuit the chase feels so addictive, and
Speaker 2: sometimes that state of elation and frustration, that state of
Speaker 2: longing can last up to you know, three years. That
Speaker 2: was one of the like, one of the figures that
Speaker 2: really shocked me from this initial research was how sometimes
Speaker 2: it even outlasts love. Our state of limerens can outlast
Speaker 2: the love that occurs in a relationship. But what we
Speaker 2: really and seriously need to start steering towards when we
Speaker 2: get to that state three years of not much of nothing,
Speaker 2: of wishful thinking, that's when we really need to start
Speaker 2: seeing a resolution. Either you know, I'm going to say
Speaker 2: the least likely possibility here, and I know it might
Speaker 2: be upsetting, but either you know, a mutual relationship does eventuate,
Speaker 2: which I do think is unlikely, or we do start
Speaker 2: to see our link and our bond to them gradually fade.
Speaker 2: Our brain basically is like, Okay, we need to find
Speaker 2: a way through this. We cannot stay in this state
Speaker 2: for the next three, six, nine, twelve years. It gets
Speaker 2: bored of it, It gets bored of longing. Basically, no
Speaker 2: matter what happens, we cannot stay in a perpetual state
Speaker 2: of longing for that long. Eventually, and hopefully this brings
Speaker 2: some hope and positivity here, we do kind of realize
Speaker 2: that we deserve more. We do kind of want to
Speaker 2: put our attention towards someone who is going to reciprocate
Speaker 2: our affection, our adoration, and our time. Something will trigger
Speaker 2: you to move on. I remember this very clearly what
Speaker 2: this was for me when I was in a limeerate
Speaker 2: state a few years back, and I'd spent you know,
Speaker 2: months basically like begging some universal higher power to like,
Speaker 2: please please let me move on, Please let me see
Speaker 2: some clarity in this situation, Please let me be more
Speaker 2: logical about this. And I was genuinely desperate, and what
Speaker 2: actually ended up helping me was I saw this person again.
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen them in you know a while, probably
Speaker 2: over a year, and upon finally seeing them, I was
Speaker 2: just kind of like, oh my gosh, you are not
Speaker 2: what I expected you to be. You are not who
Speaker 2: I wanted you to be. I built up this whole fantasy,
Speaker 2: and I think it's ready that I, you know, give
Speaker 2: myself what I deserve and I try and process this.
Speaker 2: And it did take a few more months, but it
Speaker 2: was one of those things where once I had the
Speaker 2: opportunity to leave the situation and come back into it
Speaker 2: and see that it really wasn't a connection, it wasn't
Speaker 2: anything more than infatuation an obsession on my behalf, I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, I have permiss now to realize that
Speaker 2: this is never going to eventuate and it's time to
Speaker 2: move on. There are a few other things to note
Speaker 2: about limerens, but you know, beyond just the four stages,
Speaker 2: limerence is at its core involuntary. You cannot make or
Speaker 2: force yourself into a limberent, obsessive, infatuated state. It's almost
Speaker 2: like there is some underlying pull towards this person how
Speaker 2: you're feeling, and some would suggest that that's actually the
Speaker 2: result of how dopamine and sarah tonin circuits are wired
Speaker 2: in the brains of those who experienced limereates more often.
Speaker 2: Limerence has been related to addiction, and we know this
Speaker 2: from a series of studies conducted by the anthropologist Helen
Speaker 2: Fisher and Helen Fisher she actually passed away last month,
Speaker 2: which is which is quite sad. I hope she's enjoying
Speaker 2: whatever adventure you know awaits us in death, because you know,
Speaker 2: she was a pretty remarkable lady. She was one of
Speaker 2: the first people to prove that love and with that
Speaker 2: limerence is hardwired into the brain. Her and her co
Speaker 2: authors basically drew on brain scan evidence that showed that
Speaker 2: romantic love is, you know, associated with dopamine, which is
Speaker 2: associated with certain addictive I don't know if it's addictive cycles,
Speaker 2: but addictive underlying systems in the brain. And love can
Speaker 2: be a positive addiction when it is required, and it's
Speaker 2: a negative addiction when it's unrequited or inappropriate. And that
Speaker 2: kind of explains why you know, when you are in
Speaker 2: a state of limerence, you are experiencing a negative addiction.
Speaker 2: You're experiencing something you know deeper than your conscious awareness of,
Speaker 2: like a full dopamine system that is working against you
Speaker 2: to keep you attached to this person. The second thing
Speaker 2: to notice that limerens sometimes does blind us to faults
Speaker 2: or flaws of the person that we desire. And there
Speaker 2: was another series of studies conducted in nineteen ninety nine
Speaker 2: in which the main researcher found that the dominating similarity
Speaker 2: between people experiencing limerens was that no matter how hard
Speaker 2: they tried, they just could not point out anything that
Speaker 2: made this person unattractive, even when it was pointed out
Speaker 2: to them, even when it had to do with what
Speaker 2: this person was making them feel like, surely this person
Speaker 2: isn't all that great, considering you're pretty hung up on
Speaker 2: them and pretty upset and distressed and almost in agony.
Speaker 2: And they would say, oh, no, no, no, that's not them.
Speaker 2: It's just, you know, the circumstances, we have this blind
Speaker 2: loyalty to their greatness, which is a very hard allusion
Speaker 2: to break. And the final thing that I think is
Speaker 2: important to note about limerens. It is normally based more
Speaker 2: on an emotional desire rather than a sexual desire, which
Speaker 2: is really what distinguishes it from lust. If you are
Speaker 2: in a state of limerens, you'll probably relate to wanting
Speaker 2: to just simply hear from this person, to connect with them,
Speaker 2: to talk for hours, to see where your relationship could grow,
Speaker 2: rather than just wanting them to be attracted to you
Speaker 2: or just wanting to have sex with them. It's what
Speaker 2: really puts it more in the realm of romantic love.
Speaker 2: For me, you care the way you would care for
Speaker 2: a romantic partner or someone that you've known for a
Speaker 2: lot longer. And that's what makes it very mentally and
Speaker 2: emotionally complicated. And you know, if you've never experienced this,
Speaker 2: it can be really really hard to understand. You know,
Speaker 2: how could you continue to be so intensely into someone,
Speaker 2: obsessed with them when they have no interest in you?
Speaker 2: You know, they have no interest in being with you.
Speaker 2: That surely that's illogical, and yet it's not. And yet
Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense, and it happens to
Speaker 2: a lot of us. They are able to shape your
Speaker 2: daily mood, your actions, your thoughts, your feelings, and there's
Speaker 2: this big underlying question of why, why why is this happening?
Speaker 2: And I have a few explanations for you. Limerens is
Speaker 2: really a mixture of by biological, psychological, emotional, and environmental factors,
Speaker 2: but above all else It is just mental activity. It
Speaker 2: is not a sign from above that you're meant to
Speaker 2: be together, that you shouldn't quit on them, don't give
Speaker 2: up Your obsession and infatuation is not hinting at destiny.
Speaker 2: It is basically an interpretation of events rather than the
Speaker 2: events themselves, because basically your brain is trying to find
Speaker 2: a way to make this work. It's holding onto the
Speaker 2: fixation because of the slimmest chance of possibility that it perceives,
Speaker 2: rather than if there is actually possibility to be had.
Speaker 2: We of course already know about the neurological and biological
Speaker 2: kind of origins or causes. Some would say, you know
Speaker 2: the relational patterns that mimic and create addiction. The other
Speaker 2: significant factor is our attachment style, and we hear a
Speaker 2: lot about this, so I will keep it kind of
Speaker 2: short and simple. But our early ways of learning how
Speaker 2: to bond with another human, usually our parent, is going
Speaker 2: to go on to influence our behaviors around bonding with
Speaker 2: others as an adult, both platonically and romantically. If that
Speaker 2: childhood relationship you had was somewhat disturbed or what we
Speaker 2: would call disorganized, you may continue to seek out that
Speaker 2: same pattern of attachment and relationship later on, later on,
Speaker 2: when you're pursuing a romantic interest, perhaps you're looking for
Speaker 2: someone you're constantly very attractive to people who are hot
Speaker 2: and cold with you, who are unreliable, because you are
Speaker 2: seeking to finally have a situation or you can change them,
Speaker 2: or you can make someone love you. If you are
Speaker 2: quite anxious. This can also lead to that same fear
Speaker 2: of rejection and obsessive behaviors that is very characteristic of limerens,
Speaker 2: where you tolerate the mixed signals or you let it
Speaker 2: fuel your desire to be closer to them because you
Speaker 2: don't want to face the alternative, which is a life
Speaker 2: without them, and that really exacerbates a lot of the
Speaker 2: cleanliness a lot of those intrusive thoughts. It may also
Speaker 2: come down to a subconscious avoid or emotional unavailability on
Speaker 2: your behalf, which you might not expect. You might think
Speaker 2: that the person who is not reciprocating is the one
Speaker 2: who is emotionally unavoidant. But for people with an insecure
Speaker 2: attachment style, being in love with someone who won't return
Speaker 2: those feelings actually means that they can stay in a
Speaker 2: distant relationship without making any other real connection you know,
Speaker 2: loving someone and being loved in return. It does require
Speaker 2: a lot of vulnerability, and you have to accept that
Speaker 2: this is two sided, that there is risk and reward,
Speaker 2: that actually you could be hurt. Love inherent in love
Speaker 2: is a possibility of hurt. But when you stay stuck
Speaker 2: on unreclited love or in a limerent state, this allows
Speaker 2: you to kind of remain in the safety of a
Speaker 2: pseudo relationship that can never be real, that will never
Speaker 2: require you to be truly vulnerable that you know, the
Speaker 2: biggest risk is that you fall out of love with
Speaker 2: this person without ever actually you know, experiencing the true
Speaker 2: depth of love, and you don't actually have to commit
Speaker 2: to them. So what this one author says is that actually,
Speaker 2: maybe limerence is protecting us from having to be I
Speaker 2: don't know, attached or fall in love with someone who
Speaker 2: will reciprocate and who will force us to finally accept
Speaker 2: and be in the presence of healthy love. This is
Speaker 2: obviously a huge general assessment, and I will say it's
Speaker 2: not true for everyone. There are a lot of people
Speaker 2: who experience limreates but have experienced healthy love just as
Speaker 2: much like we mentioned before, you know, it's very different
Speaker 2: for each of us, and it's also not something that
Speaker 2: you can sign up for. So there are unconscious mechanisms
Speaker 2: at play that drive you into those specific situations, and
Speaker 2: an insecure attachment style maybe one of them. It may
Speaker 2: also be more common or more likely that you are
Speaker 2: someone with a very real, vivid sense of fantasy imagination.
Speaker 2: You're very romantic, sentimental. You dream so so big about
Speaker 2: the potential or the life you have with someone that
Speaker 2: it just feels like that is very much something that
Speaker 2: could come true, that it's not a hypothetical anymore. You can,
Speaker 2: you know, feel the Sunday mornings that you wake up
Speaker 2: together and cook breakfast. You can picture your future children,
Speaker 2: you can smell that vacation in Fiji and that you're
Speaker 2: going to go on like it's very very vivid for you.
Speaker 2: The future that you have with them is very vivid.
Speaker 2: And it's that imagination that really gets you hooked, that
Speaker 2: gets you invested. There is this potential and since you
Speaker 2: can imagine it, surely there is a reality where it
Speaker 2: could be real. If only they thought like you, if
Speaker 2: only they could see this like you, then you, guys,
Speaker 2: could be something. The final explanation that is so important
Speaker 2: for me to mention here also comes down to ADHD.
Speaker 2: Because ADHD and limerens. I don't know if you could
Speaker 2: say they mix very well or not well at all,
Speaker 2: but either way they are very much intertwined. If you
Speaker 2: think about limerens in ADHD, they have quite a few
Speaker 2: things in common, right, hyper focus, rejection, sensitivity, emotional dysregulation.
Speaker 2: When it comes to this person, limerens is also essentially
Speaker 2: a hyper fixation that can only heighten those obsessive and
Speaker 2: recurrent patterns of thinking. I thought this person's description to
Speaker 2: an online magazine called Attitude. It's a quarterly journal on
Speaker 2: advancements and articles to do with ADHD really worth checking
Speaker 2: out if that's something you struggle with. But I thought
Speaker 2: that this person's description was really just the best way
Speaker 2: we could describe it based on her lived experience. Falling
Speaker 2: in love is immediately all consuming for me. My hyper
Speaker 2: focus and fixation are insane. I lose hours, days, weeks,
Speaker 2: and months to my obsession. And then at some point
Speaker 2: the dopamine runs out and my fixation lifts. I realize
Speaker 2: the person I've been obsessed with is just that a person,
Speaker 2: and I withdraw when the magic of dope mean is lost.
Speaker 2: Seeing the other person clearly is often crushingly disappointing. Disappointing
Speaker 2: because there's no way they or anyone could ever be
Speaker 2: the permanent DoPT mean high. I'm constantly seeking and disappointing
Speaker 2: because once again I've completely lost myself to this obsession.
Speaker 2: I will say this thing of no one could ever
Speaker 2: be the permanent don't mean high. I get that, and
Speaker 2: I do, really, really, I think empathize with that feeling
Speaker 2: that you know you cannot be in that constant state
Speaker 2: of obsession and love for your entire life. But there
Speaker 2: is something uniquely more beautiful about a love that is
Speaker 2: calm and matter, love that does not always have to
Speaker 2: make you excited because it is just a constant and
Speaker 2: often excitement and anxiety are very interlocked, so we start
Speaker 2: to confuse them. And I do think that the older
Speaker 2: you get, the more you realize that there's a lot
Speaker 2: of things that can bring you happiness, and dope mean
Speaker 2: and love is definitely one of them, but above or else,
Speaker 2: above all else. Sorry, we really wanted to bring us
Speaker 2: serenity and peace. Like I said before, Here's what another
Speaker 2: person had to say about this about the interactions between
Speaker 2: ADHD and limerens. My crushes occupy a large portion of
Speaker 2: my thoughts and they make it hard for me to concentrate.
Speaker 2: I've even experienced falling in love with someone I didn't
Speaker 2: even like. It is like getting on a bus from
Speaker 2: which I can never disembark. And that analogy, I think
Speaker 2: what you just said is spot on. She said it
Speaker 2: so perfectly. It's a ride that once you get on,
Speaker 2: involuntarily get on, you feel like you can't get off,
Speaker 2: and the emotional consequences of that can be really really scary,
Speaker 2: really quite scary, and quite profound frustrating. At times. You feel,
Speaker 2: of course, deep emotional turmoil, excitement and joy that suddenly
Speaker 2: turns into despair and longing, and you kind of feel
Speaker 2: pushed and pulled between those two dates constantly. So there
Speaker 2: is never a balance, There is never a steady state
Speaker 2: that lasts for that long. Then there is the low
Speaker 2: self esteem because your feelings haven't been reciprocated, and you
Speaker 2: begin to think that reflects something about you when it doesn't.
Speaker 2: It truly doesn't. It just comes down to what this
Speaker 2: person wants, and that's something that you can't control. You
Speaker 2: continue to have value, whether they want a relationship or
Speaker 2: not you continue to have value despite what happens to
Speaker 2: that connection. There can also be a degree of isolation
Speaker 2: as well, not wanting to share what we're experiencing with
Speaker 2: others because we feel embarrassed to admit, you know, that
Speaker 2: we're so caught up in this situation. And people who
Speaker 2: don't experience limrens, I think just don't quite understand the intensity.
Speaker 2: They don't quite understand the wishful thinking. How you you know,
Speaker 2: eventually you do want to get over this. You are
Speaker 2: tired of being in the state. But it's not a
Speaker 2: simple That's not how your brain operates, is you know,
Speaker 2: being like, Okay, I'm ready to move on, and then
Speaker 2: you move on. I don't know if anyone can possibly
Speaker 2: do that eventually, though, and this is the good news.
Speaker 2: You do get to a place of kind of exhaustion
Speaker 2: of wanting it to be over. And I think that
Speaker 2: is when the path out starts to become a bit
Speaker 2: more clear. When we are I think truly at our
Speaker 2: lowest with the situation, is when we start to see
Speaker 2: hope it is possible to recover from limerens, to one
Speaker 2: day be in a place where their name doesn't make
Speaker 2: you jolt doesn't give me those adrenaline spikes. You're not
Speaker 2: waiting for the text back. That is very, very possible,
Speaker 2: and I want to talk about some of the steps
Speaker 2: we can take to do that to realize this after
Speaker 2: this short break. When I asked you guys all over
Speaker 2: on Instagram, what do you want to know about limerens?
Speaker 2: The number one thing you asked me was how do
Speaker 2: I intentionally move on? How can I stop limerents from
Speaker 2: influencing a relationship in the beginning, How can I bring
Speaker 2: this under my control? You know, there were stories from
Speaker 2: you all about how you've been miserable for months, even years,
Speaker 2: sometimes over short relationships, crushes people you've only met a
Speaker 2: few times. Again, it wasn't a choice for you. Your brain
Speaker 2: has obviously seen some possibility in them, and that it's
Speaker 2: gotten attached to, and it's got an attached to that chase,
Speaker 2: that roller coaster. That does bring a lot of dopeamine.
Speaker 2: But we do want to bring our limeerent states back
Speaker 2: into our control as much as possible, so we can
Speaker 2: see ourselves clearly, see the person we admire clearly, the
Speaker 2: relationship clearly, and then hopefully see other opportunities and other
Speaker 2: options for us if you want to know, first off,
Speaker 2: whether there is a basis for your limerens or not,
Speaker 2: or maybe a better way of saying this, whether what
Speaker 2: you're experiencing is love or admirance. Firstly, do a quick
Speaker 2: evaluation of the relationship. Is their commitment, is there a
Speaker 2: label they reciprocating? Is there a sense of continuity such
Speaker 2: that in two weeks things aren't going to drastically change.
Speaker 2: You can rely on them, You know that they can
Speaker 2: rely on you, that they care about you. I think
Speaker 2: in that instance, maybe especially in the beginning, this is
Speaker 2: a sign of mutual affection that is growing into a relationship.
Speaker 2: If it is the opposite of that, that is when
Speaker 2: we know that perhaps what we're entering into is limerens.
Speaker 2: If you feel like you can't really trust your evaluation,
Speaker 2: even though you know it's limerens, you are still fully invested,
Speaker 2: really forcibly, override your desire to be in close contact
Speaker 2: with them, override your desire to reach out to check in.
Speaker 2: Take a few big steps back. And I know it
Speaker 2: sounds simple. I know it's advice that is often given,
Speaker 2: but you need to go no contact. It is the
Speaker 2: tried and tested best strategy. Even if at times it
Speaker 2: requires superhuman strength and discipline and sacrifice. Sometimes it does
Speaker 2: require sacrifice, But what you've got to do it for
Speaker 2: is not for yourself right now, but for your future self,
Speaker 2: your self in six months, who's going to be six
Speaker 2: months further into the healing process rather than just starting out.
Speaker 2: Thank you to you, Thanks to your current self who
Speaker 2: was taking on the burden and the pain of starting sooner.
Speaker 2: Schedule in a one month period of time, even two
Speaker 2: weeks if you want to start small, where your contact
Speaker 2: is super minimal, and notice whether the emotional rollercoaster begins
Speaker 2: to slow a little bit, begins to take fewer leaps,
Speaker 2: chase that feeling, the feeling of peace, serenity, control over
Speaker 2: what you're experiencing. I think that first week or period
Speaker 2: of withdrawing from your love interest it's going to be
Speaker 2: quite revealing, because, like we've said, it's like a withdrawal
Speaker 2: from a drug source, which is how I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people would explain it. In the immediate period. Afterwards,
Speaker 2: everything will suddenly get perhaps more intense, because all that
Speaker 2: dopamine you feel in response to small messages or interactions
Speaker 2: with that person are fading. They're less accessible to you
Speaker 2: and then eventually you'll feel like a bit of balance
Speaker 2: is restored, and it won't come all at once, but
Speaker 2: it will be one day at a time. It's also
Speaker 2: during that period where we want to practice what I
Speaker 2: like to call replacement therapy. You know, we can do
Speaker 2: that for substances like nicotine, we can also do it
Speaker 2: for limereates. There are a couple of I would say
Speaker 2: compulsions that go hand in hand with limreates, so social
Speaker 2: media checking, finding ways to run into them or hang
Speaker 2: out with them, even at the expense of your own plans.
Speaker 2: This is what we would call proximity seeking behavior, repetitive thinking,
Speaker 2: getting stuck in daydreaming or fantasy. And what we want
Speaker 2: to do is have a substitute for those behaviors because
Speaker 2: all of them are continuing to, you know, exaggerate this cycle,
Speaker 2: continuing to keep you in this cycle of limerens. So
Speaker 2: a substitute could be a mindful distraction. You could literally doodle,
Speaker 2: could do five push ups, you could listen to a meditation,
Speaker 2: you could go for all walk and leave your phone
Speaker 2: at home when you feel the desire to reach out.
Speaker 2: Even better, our activities with friends, where they can be
Speaker 2: the sole source of our attention. We can pour our
Speaker 2: love into them and it will be reciprocated. There is
Speaker 2: something about platonic friendship, you know, laughter, shared time that
Speaker 2: can be the best distraction from our intrusive reflections or affections,
Speaker 2: and it can really also stop us from self isolating
Speaker 2: from withdrawing, which only really contributes to our state of
Speaker 2: longing because the only thing we can think about is
Speaker 2: this person. When you build up your other relationships and
Speaker 2: you invest in them, I think your limerence starts to
Speaker 2: feel smaller and less important amongst these constant giants of love,
Speaker 2: which is friendship, family connection. It's also really important to
Speaker 2: create things to look forward to with your friends that
Speaker 2: don't place this person at the center of your universe,
Speaker 2: and that may also involve space from the situation that
Speaker 2: you combine with those wholesome activities with friends. You know,
Speaker 2: book an airbnb for a weekend trip with your friends,
Speaker 2: one with a pool, one with a big backyard, maybe
Speaker 2: near a beach, and just make memories that revolve around
Speaker 2: the people who are constants in your life, who you adore,
Speaker 2: who are consistent, and most importantly, who reciprocate. This is
Speaker 2: also really important at the beginning of a relationship. You know,
Speaker 2: if you're someone who feels like Limerens always bulldozers every
Speaker 2: opportunity you have to get to know someone slowly and purposefully,
Speaker 2: like you just feel the need to rush in, you
Speaker 2: can actually create deliberate time blocks for yourself, you know,
Speaker 2: speed bumps, almost activities that you have planned in advance,
Speaker 2: events where you know they're not going to be there,
Speaker 2: so that you get a break from them, from the
Speaker 2: intensive thoughts, from the drive to see them be with
Speaker 2: them constantly. The other big way to bring Limerens back
Speaker 2: into your control is to really be quite bossy and
Speaker 2: direct with your irrational thoughts. So the irrational thoughts that
Speaker 2: often accompany limereates are things like they are the one
Speaker 2: for me. I can't be happy without them, or they
Speaker 2: will eventually feel the same way. If I just try harder,
Speaker 2: they will realize that we're destined for each other. You know,
Speaker 2: they're perfect. I'm the one who's not good enough. This
Speaker 2: is true love, and if it's over, I'll never recover.
Speaker 2: I'll never find anyone better. These thoughts sound really believable
Speaker 2: when they're coming from us, when we're the ones thinking them,
Speaker 2: Because of course we trust our own judgments and intuitions.
Speaker 2: But you have to remember just because you think something
Speaker 2: doesn't make it real. A lot of the time those
Speaker 2: thoughts are based off fear, faulty information, false expectations, and
Speaker 2: that is what is contributing to this limreent state. Don't
Speaker 2: let these thoughts steer the ship. Interrogate them when they
Speaker 2: come up. I'll use the example of they're the only
Speaker 2: one for me. I can't be happy without them. That's
Speaker 2: a common one. This thought is often what keeps us
Speaker 2: solely focused on this one person, even when better people
Speaker 2: come along. But if we replace that thought with there
Speaker 2: are many other people out there who would love me,
Speaker 2: and probably better than this. This is not the only
Speaker 2: person who completes me. Love is a union, Love is
Speaker 2: a collaboration. I deserve this to be reciprocated. Then we
Speaker 2: start to slowly, I think, wake up to the fact
Speaker 2: that we deserve more. The same goes for a belief
Speaker 2: like if I just try harder, soon they'll realize that
Speaker 2: I'm meant to be with them, that we're destined to
Speaker 2: be together. What I want you to really replace that
Speaker 2: thought with is, you know, would true love really make
Speaker 2: you work this hard? Would true love really require you
Speaker 2: to prove yourself? Would it be this much of a struggle?
Speaker 2: You know. I don't know about you, but I don't
Speaker 2: hear many love stories from people who were kept on
Speaker 2: the bench for years. I don't hear many love stories
Speaker 2: from people who, you know, for half a decade, were
Speaker 2: not given the love and compassion they deserve. Only for
Speaker 2: someone to change their mind and suddenly they have this
Speaker 2: flourishing relationship. I'm sure it does happen occasion, but if
Speaker 2: you've ever seen the movie, he's just not that into you.
Speaker 2: There's this line in the movie that says, You've got
Speaker 2: to remember that you are the rule, not the exception.
Speaker 2: Don't let the promise of being the exception keep you
Speaker 2: in the same place for months or years. We could
Speaker 2: also benefit from practicing some psychological deprogramming or reprogramming that
Speaker 2: takes this love interest off the pedestal. One useful tactic
Speaker 2: to kind of trick your brain into devaluing this individual
Speaker 2: is to focus on what you don't find desirable, even
Speaker 2: if you have to force yourself to search for it.
Speaker 2: You know when you are in the company of this person.
Speaker 2: Focus on either things that are a flaw fixate on
Speaker 2: the flaws instead. The basic goal, I know it sounds
Speaker 2: kind of mean, but the basic goal is to basically
Speaker 2: counter your brain's attempts to idealize this person by feeding
Speaker 2: it negative data. Instead, you can also focus not just
Speaker 2: on their visible qualities, but also your own internal response
Speaker 2: to them. Sometimes we want to avoid thinking about the shame.
Speaker 2: We want to avoid the guilt, the sting of rejection,
Speaker 2: the hopelessness, but do the opposite. Tune into it. Make
Speaker 2: sure you can name what's caused it. It's this person,
Speaker 2: it's your perception of them, it's your relationship with them.
Speaker 2: Sometimes the only way out is truly through. You have
Speaker 2: to explore these emotions, as uncomfortable and dark as they
Speaker 2: may be, to finally get to the resolution stage. My
Speaker 2: final tip is to find closure in any way possible,
Speaker 2: and the best way to do this is to seek
Speaker 2: closure from your person by mustering every sliver in drop
Speaker 2: of confidence and courage you have and asking them, is
Speaker 2: this ever going to be what I think it could be?
Speaker 2: Are you interested in me? Will you ever be interested
Speaker 2: in me? This is definitely the final nuclear option, and
Speaker 2: it might seem catastrophic, but I think that sometimes it's necessary,
Speaker 2: and this specific site that talks about living with Limerens,
Speaker 2: they put it really really well, Yes, we don't want
Speaker 2: to do that because we think we may ruin a
Speaker 2: beautiful friendship. But be honest with yourself, is it actually
Speaker 2: that beautiful or is it even a friendship? Or is
Speaker 2: it causing you more pain than it's worth? And after
Speaker 2: you've been honest with yourself, be honest with them. If
Speaker 2: you know they feel the same way about you, then
Speaker 2: you've got what you wanted, and that's the closure. If
Speaker 2: they don't, if there is any uncertainty on their end,
Speaker 2: I think that we suddenly get a bit of a
Speaker 2: reality hit, we get a bit of reality exposure, and
Speaker 2: we realize that, you know, it is time for us
Speaker 2: to gift ourselves the possibility oh gift ourselves the idea
Speaker 2: that someone else could love us more. That is like
Speaker 2: a real gift to be like, actually, no, I'm deserving
Speaker 2: of a mutual love, of a brilliant love, of a
Speaker 2: generous love. This is maybe not the situation that I deserve.
Speaker 2: And that's really how I want to conclude this episode
Speaker 2: by showing you that there are there are many paths
Speaker 2: out of this. The only thing promised. You know, in
Speaker 2: life it is change, and this also applies to Limerens.
Speaker 2: When we're in it, it feels like it's never going
Speaker 2: to go away. But then in three years time you
Speaker 2: look back at this very moment and you realize how
Speaker 2: far you've come, how much you've done, how beautiful it
Speaker 2: was to mature out of that state, to find a
Speaker 2: love that is healthy and fulfilling, which you most certainly
Speaker 2: will find. And I know that you're probably suffering right now.
Speaker 2: I've been there, I've done that, I got the T shirt.
Speaker 2: It was a slow journey out of it. But now,
Speaker 2: in the stage that I'm at, I'm almost grateful that
Speaker 2: I got the opportunity to see that I could love
Speaker 2: that deeply, that that was a real kind of superpower,
Speaker 2: a real talent skill characteristic of mine. And you know,
Speaker 2: just because they couldn't feel it, because they didn't want it,
Speaker 2: they were giving me my love back, doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: it was worthless. And actually there are many people who
Speaker 2: would feel very, very lucky to be loved the way
Speaker 2: that you love. So consider it. I hate the word
Speaker 2: superpower because it feels so like almost cringe, but consider
Speaker 2: it an asset. Consider it something that makes you absolutely wonderful,
Speaker 2: and it means that when the right person comes along,
Speaker 2: you're going to have everything you need to love them
Speaker 2: deeply and for that love to be sustained. So thank
Speaker 2: you so much for listening to this episode. I really
Speaker 2: hope that you enjoyed it, hope you learned something. If
Speaker 2: there's someone in your life who needs to hear it,
Speaker 2: make sure you send them a link. And I really
Speaker 2: hope you're taking care of yourself that you felt some
Speaker 2: comfort from this, because I want you to know you're
Speaker 2: not alone. Sometimes that is the greatest comfort. If you
Speaker 2: again enjoy the episode, leave a five star review, make
Speaker 2: sure you're following along for more upcoming episodes. And if
Speaker 2: you have something to say about this topic, this episode,
Speaker 2: any other topic or episode, or even a suggestion, a
Speaker 2: follow up, a query, please fel free to dm me
Speaker 2: on Instagram at that Psychology Podcast. Until next week, stay safe,
Speaker 2: stay kind, and be gentle with yourselves. We will talk
Speaker 2: very very soon.