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Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sahadim Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your

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Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic and Patrick. Last episode,

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Speaker 1: we broke down Tatsuya My what the Cubs thought of

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Speaker 1: him and him ending up in Houston. Now Cubs fans

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Speaker 1: are wondering what's next. What are the Cubs going to do?

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Speaker 2: Who's who?

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Speaker 1: What free agent or trade rumor are Cubs fans going

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Speaker 1: to obsess them over? Now? Uh, there is work to do.

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Speaker 1: They you know, there's no denying that they came into

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Speaker 1: this offseason making it clear that adding a starting pitcher

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Speaker 1: was a priority. Pitching, pitching, pitching was what we were told,

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Speaker 1: what we've been talking about. Uh, they still need a

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Speaker 1: starting pitcher. I mean they've brought back Colin Ray.

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Speaker 2: They have.

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Speaker 1: You could say that they have I mean showed him

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Speaker 1: and Aga is back obviously. You could say that they

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Speaker 1: have five starters with Ray as the fifth starter. They

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Speaker 1: have a good group and then they have some depth

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Speaker 1: if you want to say Javi Rasaud, Ben Brown, Jackson Wiggins,

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Speaker 1: all these guys. I still think it's hard to deny

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Speaker 1: that they have to go get another starter. I think

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Speaker 1: this team would look a lot more intimidating and a

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Speaker 1: lot more impressive if you add a starting pitcher. I

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Speaker 1: think the name probably primarily that comes up right now

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Speaker 1: is Zach Galland I think he's a little underrated in

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Speaker 1: the sense that I think fans are obsessing over this

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Speaker 1: most recent season and not really looking at his body

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Speaker 1: of work and what he could be. It's fair to

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Speaker 1: wonder is it was this last season the start of

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Speaker 1: a decline phase for him, or was it a blip?

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Speaker 1: And I think that's probably what the Cubs are thinking

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Speaker 1: through and or I'll probably already have and like trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what his value is and what they

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Speaker 1: can get him at. And he's probably one of a

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Speaker 1: few options remaining right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, even Gallon's down season had some really productive months

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Speaker 3: and good stretches that I think you could sort of

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Speaker 3: dream on of, like, all right, this is a quality

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Speaker 3: major league pitcher who's experienced some really high highs of

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Speaker 3: cy Young votes going to the World Series. If he

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Speaker 3: just unfortunately timed it wrong his free agency, that if

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Speaker 3: he was going to the market after almost any of

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Speaker 3: those other full seasons he had had with the Diamondbacks,

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Speaker 3: he'd be in a really great position. Now he's just

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Speaker 3: in like a pretty good position. I'd imagine he's looking

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Speaker 3: for some of that opt out flexibility as well. And

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Speaker 3: the Cubs generally, I don't know under jet have they

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Speaker 3: ever given an opt out clause after year one? Uh

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Speaker 3: maybe they've offered it in a deal that didn't come together,

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Speaker 3: But clearly it's been a sticking point with other free agents.

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Speaker 3: And Yeah, I've said this before, but I don't quite

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Speaker 3: get the like Emaya's this assumption that Amaya is going

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Speaker 3: to be awesome and that Gallon's going to be terrible. Like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I think a lot of these starting

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Speaker 3: pitchers that came out in this class, this is not

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Speaker 3: exactly like Max Schuurzer and John Lester one, you know,

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Speaker 3: free agent one and one a out there of you know,

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Speaker 3: Hall of Fame caliber, uh, you know, big game pitchers.

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Speaker 3: For me, a lot of these starters are kind of

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Speaker 3: bunched together. Some of them have obviously gotten are off

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Speaker 3: the board now and are no longer options for the Cubs.

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Speaker 3: But I would imagine Gallon is still a focus that

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Speaker 3: they are going to be in the mix for him,

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Speaker 3: I'd surprised. I just don't really see them like bowing

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Speaker 3: out or saying like, okay, we're good now. And you know,

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Speaker 3: this is part of a wider thing that we're going

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Speaker 3: to get into here. Of there's still a lot of unsigned,

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Speaker 3: high profile free agents, and on the Athletics big board,

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Speaker 3: of the top nine, six are still unsigned, and they

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Speaker 3: are hitters and pitchers in that mix, and you know,

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Speaker 3: on the starter, and like we don't think they're on

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Speaker 3: Framber Valdez. I'd still think he's going to get a

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Speaker 3: bigger deal, a longer deal than the Cubs are probably

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Speaker 3: comfortable with. He's not exactly the type of picture that

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Speaker 3: they want. Ranger Suarez also sort of falls in that

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Speaker 3: bucket of not that you know, swing and miss machine.

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Speaker 3: He also doesn't have a ton of volume on his

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Speaker 3: resume in terms of like innings. But with all of

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Speaker 3: these free agents, as things drag throughout the winter, we

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Speaker 3: get closer to Super Bowl Sunday, pitchers and catchers start reporting,

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Speaker 3: maybe players or their families get a little antsy, and agents,

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Speaker 3: you know, keep hearing from teams, Oh, we don't have

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Speaker 3: any money left. We spend everything the Cubs have positioned

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Speaker 3: themselves as one of those few teams that are kind

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Speaker 3: of always in the deal flow for those last minute

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Speaker 3: free agents. That doesn't mean they always get them. And

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Speaker 3: sometimes Cody Bellinger comes back and sometimes Alex Bregman goes

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Speaker 3: to the Red Sox. But this is probably shaping up

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Speaker 3: as another one of those markets where there's gonna be

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Speaker 3: like really good impact players still out there and the

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Speaker 3: Cub's roster won't look totally set.

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Speaker 2: When we all go to Arizona.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And like, I think one thing I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be watching this season, whether the Cubs get him or not,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to see Gallen versus I who has a

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Speaker 1: better season. You said that early in your what you

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Speaker 1: were just talking about there, Like there's this assumption that,

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Speaker 1: am I, this is such a better free agent acquisition

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Speaker 1: than Gallen, Like I I don't know if I agree

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Speaker 1: with that, Like I I feel more comfortable saying that

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Speaker 1: Gallen is going to have a pretty solid season and

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Speaker 1: bounce back, Like this is a veteran that has established

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Speaker 1: himself as a really good pitcher and he's coming off

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Speaker 1: of a rough season, and I'm not seeing like some dramatic

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Speaker 1: decrease in velocity or stuff like this. You know, nothing

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Speaker 1: jumps out as me at me as saying like, this

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Speaker 1: guy is a mess right now, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of work that needs to be done. I'm sure there's

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Speaker 1: some things that the Cubs or other teams or he

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Speaker 1: himself have identified that need to be worked on. I

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Speaker 1: think you'd be a good value signed depending on what

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Speaker 1: they can end up getting him for. If he's a

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Speaker 1: real option for them, which I believe he is. Something

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Speaker 1: I think we need to touch on. Patrick is like,

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Speaker 1: can they snag both a starting pitcher and position player? Like,

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Speaker 1: is that something that's realistic? Well, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: if they sign the free agent pitcher, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be harder. Right there are trade options for a starting pitcher,

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Speaker 1: and I think that may be the path of what

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Speaker 1: you were just talking about who falls through the cracks.

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Speaker 1: If there's a position player that kind of falls through

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Speaker 1: the cracks and then they are able to trade for

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Speaker 1: a starting pitcher, is that that's probably kind of like

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Speaker 1: the dream off season I think for the Cubs and

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Speaker 1: for their fan base to get both an impactful starter

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Speaker 1: that can kind of you know, compete at the top

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Speaker 1: of the rotation along with the bat that maybe isn't

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Speaker 1: equal to Kyle Tucker's production, but you know can come

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Speaker 1: close to that or almost replace that in a sense.

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Speaker 1: That's I don't know how realistic that is. I think

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Speaker 1: we need to see how the market plays out, and

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Speaker 1: it purely is that situation you're talking about, who falls

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Speaker 1: through the cracks, who's left a month from now, and

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Speaker 1: what type of deal are they willing to take? But

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Speaker 1: if they trade for a picture, I think that's the best.

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Speaker 1: That's the path to getting that bat as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, we just went through the holiday season.

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Speaker 3: I'm in a notorious last minute Christmas shopper, so you know,

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Speaker 3: I can't criticize the Cubs for just hanging around and

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Speaker 3: waiting until the last possible moment before making a decision.

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Speaker 3: It is sort of exhausting for fans. It is, you know,

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Speaker 3: a bit repetitive for us to be writing those types

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Speaker 3: of stories. But like it could still work, right, Like

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Speaker 3: we could look up one day in Mesa and all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden there's this you know, all star player

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Speaker 3: there that we never expected. I mean, this is a

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Speaker 3: different era, but you know, Dexter Fowler showing up and

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Speaker 3: people being like, is that an extra Fowler? Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: those things happen. The Cubs are equipped to do something

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Speaker 3: like that. I don't think they're purposely you know, uh,

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Speaker 3: waiting until the last minute all the time. I think

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Speaker 3: there's an element of strategy of being patient and deliberate

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Speaker 3: and not forcing things. But absolutely, you know there are

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Speaker 3: things that you know could pop up, you know, between

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Speaker 3: now and Cubs Convention. I feel like when we were

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Speaker 3: at the Winter meetings, our heads were kind of spinning.

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Speaker 3: We were like chasing our tails on all these sort

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Speaker 3: of like vague rumblings of trade rumors. Obviously nothing has

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Speaker 3: come to fruition yet, but I'd imagine as they've sussed

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Speaker 3: out some of these free agent options and certain players

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Speaker 3: have come off the board, maybe some of those trade

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Speaker 3: concepts resurface. Even going all the way to back to

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Speaker 3: last year's trade deadline. Again, like, I don't think any

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Speaker 3: of those guys was exactly like trading for Randy Johnson

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Speaker 3: at the trade deadline. They have their own sort of

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Speaker 3: question marks, and you know, knowing how obsessed Jen and

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Speaker 3: Counsel are with pitching depth, I have a hard time

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Speaker 3: seeing them not coming away with another starting pitcher. It's

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Speaker 3: just is that guy gonna start game one of a

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Speaker 3: playoff series next year? Is he gonna be able to

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Speaker 3: pay into the seventh inning of a game in October?

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Speaker 3: Or is it sort of like another solid number three

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Speaker 3: or four starter. And I think Zach Gallon could kind

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Speaker 3: of go either way, where a lot of other remaining

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Speaker 3: pitchers are more of the kind of like depth filler,

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Speaker 3: you know, veteran who could help stabilize things, but maybe

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Speaker 3: not you know, really raise the ceiling that high.

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Speaker 1: Sure, I think that would probably end up being a

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Speaker 1: disappointment for the fans, probably, like for what our expectations

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Speaker 1: were as well. The trade market, I think is what's

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Speaker 1: fascinating in the sense that it did not really material

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Speaker 1: It hasn't so far materialized the way I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of us were expecting. I thought we expected some

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Speaker 1: bigger moves to happen, whether involved the Cubs or not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we were just expecting some bigger trades. Unless

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Speaker 1: I'm missing something, know, like it's been like Shane Baz,

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Speaker 1: there's probably another trade out there that I'm I'm forgetting

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Speaker 1: about that was significant, but nothing that was like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe that guy got moved, you know, like

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Speaker 1: whether it's not not just that, but just like the

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Speaker 1: names that we heard haven't haven't really been We haven't

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Speaker 1: seen their names in trade rumors lately. Mackenzie Gore was

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Speaker 1: someone that seemed like, Yeah, this guy's being moved.

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Speaker 2: Barely hearing that.

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Speaker 1: Joe Ryan, what direction are the twins going with this

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Speaker 1: court and what do they want to do? Uh So

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Speaker 1: it's hard to there's someone delivering something at my house

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Speaker 1: so that my dog has to greet them.

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Speaker 2: Sorry about that, Uh.

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Speaker 3: Not really not really feeling your hot takes.

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Speaker 1: No, No, Miami Marlins. They haven't moved a picture yet.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of there's stuff that we were

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Speaker 1: talking about in November, and now come the new year,

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Speaker 1: we're not We're not hearing a ton of trade rumors.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious where that goes if that heats up now

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Speaker 1: that some of these starters have signed the trade discussions,

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Speaker 1: do they get back involved in that to Alex Bregman,

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Speaker 1: rumors creep back into this space, do we start hearing

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Speaker 1: more talk about him? I you know, I think the

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Speaker 1: pitching options have to you know what, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the trade market, what are they going to do

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Speaker 1: with these top level like these prospects that they have

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Speaker 1: either play them or move them, something that we've talked

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Speaker 1: about a bit, particularly that trio by Asteros Casey and

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Speaker 1: Kevin ol Contra. These are three guys that getting to

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Speaker 1: a point where, you know, playing at Triple A seems

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Speaker 1: kind of pointless. I think there's plenty of room for

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Speaker 1: these guys to play this year, but also all three

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Speaker 1: of them, I'm not sure do you want to continue to,

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Speaker 1: you know, sit and wait for them to impact the

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Speaker 1: team in twenty twenty seven?

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Speaker 2: Is that what we're talking about?

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Speaker 1: Or are you gonna try and move them for value

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Speaker 1: right now and try and get an impactful pitcher for

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Speaker 1: this team or make a big move. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what the trade market holds exactly, but I think that's

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Speaker 1: something that the Cubs have to explore and probably are

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Speaker 1: to a certain degree.

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Speaker 3: And the Orioles gave up a haul to the Rais

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Speaker 3: and that deal you mentioned, I'm sure. I'm sure the

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Speaker 3: Cubs sort of recoiled when they saw the terms on

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Speaker 3: that one. I am still curious, like I don't I

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Speaker 3: don't think Kyle Tucker's coming back to the Cubs, But

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Speaker 3: when you see the top three names on the athletic

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Speaker 3: big board, Kyle Tucker, Boba Schett, Alex Bregman. You know,

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Speaker 3: you do start to wonder more in a theoretical sense.

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Speaker 3: This is not like having hard information, But I'd imagine

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Speaker 3: the Cubs. This is their job, this is what they do.

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Speaker 3: They sit around the front office and be like, hey,

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Speaker 3: what if this happens or what would do you know?

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Speaker 2: What would it take?

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Speaker 3: Send this? What would make sense for us? Would he

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Speaker 3: be willing to do that? And you know, the there's

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Speaker 3: a small group of agencies that generally represent the tip

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Speaker 3: top group of players. So they're already talking to Scott

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Speaker 3: Morris and he has Bregman, he has my he has Gallen.

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Speaker 3: You know, Kyle Tucker's represented by Excel, which has had

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Speaker 3: lots of UH, you know, X Cubs, lots of current

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Speaker 3: Cubs and probably some future cubs UH in their stable

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Speaker 3: of clients. You know, I think we have not focused

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Speaker 3: on Boba Schett. I don't don't really know where that is.

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Speaker 3: I think that would make a ton of sense as

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Speaker 3: like a long term piece. However, I just don't really

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Speaker 3: see the Cubs going all out on any sort of

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Speaker 3: like mega long term contract for a premium free agent.

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Speaker 3: At this moment, I was like, never say never. I am,

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Speaker 3: and you always have to be open to different possibilities.

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Speaker 3: I know we sort of sound that can sound naive,

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Speaker 3: and maybe Cubs fans don't want to hear it. But

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Speaker 3: they have some money to spend, not as much to

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Speaker 3: spend as you know people would probably want. They have

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Speaker 3: some clear needs. They have a very strong foundation. I

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Speaker 3: think we've sort of glossed over that throughout this offseason

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Speaker 3: in our times of like this isn't like the previous

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Speaker 3: off seasons where it was an eighty three win team

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Speaker 3: or it was like a you know, kind of bottom

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Speaker 3: half team. This is a playoff group that has a

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Speaker 3: pretty solid nucleus. There are you know, you know, very

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Speaker 3: targeted moves that can be made to push this to

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Speaker 3: the next level. And the deck has been cleared. You

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Speaker 3: wrote about this the other day, like the bullpens sort

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Speaker 3: of set. Maybe they'll maybe there's another guy out there.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'm sure they'll take more flyers, but this bullpen's

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Speaker 3: mostly rebuilt.

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Speaker 2: Now. Yeah, I mean, I gotta give them credit.

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Speaker 1: They've done a really good job without spending a crazy

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Speaker 1: amount of money.

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Speaker 2: Is there that no doubt closer.

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Speaker 1: No, there isn't a you know, I think they would

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Speaker 1: have liked to have gotten someone who had, you know,

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Speaker 1: was like a big stuff monster that they could have

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Speaker 1: thrown at the back of that bullpen and closed out

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Speaker 1: games that never came together.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I think they have a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of like base flying guys, the type of guys that

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Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, we feel good that this guy can

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Speaker 1: deliver an average season and maybe has a little bit,

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Speaker 1: you know, more that they can give. That's like Caleb Theelbar,

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Speaker 1: Hoby Milner, Jacob Web is it jacob Web? It's Jacob Web, right,

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Speaker 1: I'm not making up that name? Or did I make

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Speaker 1: up that name? Now?

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Speaker 3: You got me conviews like that sounded right? And then

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Speaker 3: he started, you know, kind of riffing there. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: jacob Web.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is there another writing that they got before Hunter Harvey?

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Speaker 1: So they've gotten a lot of veterans. I think this

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Speaker 1: is a very stable group in the sense that I

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Speaker 1: really like that they've gotten guys that it's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we think this guy's going you know, he has a

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Speaker 1: history of success.

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Speaker 2: He's going to give you a round a three, three five.

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Speaker 1: IVRA maybe below and then I like the bet on Harvey.

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Speaker 1: Oh Phil Mayton, that's the guy that I forgot. And Mayton,

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Speaker 1: I think is you know, not a stuff guy, but

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Speaker 1: strikeout guy and then veteran like he can work later innings.

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Speaker 1: Harvey's the upside play that they didn't have that guy

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Speaker 1: in this in this group that they've brought in him

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Speaker 1: paired with Palencia or two guys that you're like, let's

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Speaker 1: bet on the stuff, Let's see what the stuff can do,

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Speaker 1: Porter Hodge, Luke Little. These are guys that they have

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Speaker 1: in their system that have stuff. Hunter Harvey when he's healthy, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's the question. If he's healthy, he has the type

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Speaker 1: of stuff that you want at the back of a bullpen.

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Speaker 1: He has a strikeout rate when he's helped with his

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Speaker 1: best seasons. I want to say, we're like twenty two

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Speaker 1: and twenty three, who's striking out nearly thirty percent of

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Speaker 1: batter's good walk rate sitting in the upper nineties. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, just I believe the secondary pitch is a splitter.

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Speaker 2: Uh just pretty nasty, pretty nasty guy.

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Speaker 1: I like upside bets and I think this is a

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Speaker 1: guy that you know when you have, you've gotten, You've

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Speaker 1: collected a bunch of arms that come at you at

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Speaker 1: different angles, that deliver in different ways. Veterans give you

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Speaker 1: a base on and then you make the upside bet

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Speaker 1: and look, I think the price is what you need

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Speaker 1: to look at and say, this is what it costs

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Speaker 1: to get strikeouts and stuff. He has a long injury history,

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Speaker 1: but they know what the upside is and that's just

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Speaker 1: what it costs. So when you when people are frustrated

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Speaker 1: that the Cubs don't go out and get these types

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Speaker 1: of guys, like, go, look at what a guy with

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Speaker 1: this type of risk, But that also the upside that

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Speaker 1: he has costs. He costs six million bucks, Like that's

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Speaker 1: that's a I mean, that's the second most they spent

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Speaker 1: on a reliever behind Mayton. Like that's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: remarkable that that's how much it costs. But like when

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Speaker 1: you have stuff, people will pay and they'll take the

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Speaker 1: risk and say, that's why Dylan sees coming off of

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Speaker 1: so so results here got what he got right, Like,

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Speaker 1: he's got stuff and that's what you pay for.

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Speaker 3: Also, like the pedigree here, I mean Harvey's dad, Brian,

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Speaker 3: saved one hundred and seventy seven games in the big leagues.

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Speaker 2: He was with the Angels.

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Speaker 3: And the Marlins, A two time All Star, Harvey, a

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Speaker 3: first round pick out a high school. When you have

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Speaker 3: that sort of upside, that's always intriguing. He does have

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Speaker 3: some late inexperience, a guy who was valued at a

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Speaker 3: trade deadline and targeted as an impact reliever for a

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Speaker 3: playoff push.

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Speaker 2: I think that matters as well, And so.

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Speaker 3: I thought that was like a needed element just to

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Speaker 3: sort of change things up here and we'll give them

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Speaker 3: the benefit of the doubt with the bullpen stuff and

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Speaker 3: also realize that, like some of these guys are going

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Speaker 3: to be non factors, and there's gonna be guys who're

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Speaker 3: not talked about, are going to be just s catching

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Speaker 3: big moments at Wrigley Field, Like not gonna sweat that

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Speaker 3: in January. It is really like this off season is

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Speaker 3: really still to be written here of it's do they

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Speaker 3: get the picture?

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Speaker 2: Do they get another hitter?

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Speaker 3: Like how do they kind of make this work to

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Speaker 3: where you know, the group that assembles in Mesa is

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Speaker 3: sort of only looking ahead. I know the players do it,

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Speaker 3: and staff do a pretty good job of trying to

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Speaker 3: put those blinders on, But we've been there in spring

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Speaker 3: trainings of just sort of like hey, what are you hearing?

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Speaker 3: Oh man, like Bregman would have been great, you know,

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Speaker 3: stuff like that and some frustrations. This is a chance

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Speaker 3: to kind of nip that in the butt and make

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Speaker 3: sure it doesn't happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good to have the bullpen stabilized or done.

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Speaker 1: Focus on what the remaining holds. There's plenty of them,

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Speaker 1: plenty of frustration for fans to feel right now. We'll

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Speaker 1: see where this goes the rest of this offseason. But

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Speaker 1: there there is money to be spent and moves to

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Speaker 1: be made there for sure, absolutely are. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll see if a month and a half from now

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Speaker 1: fans are still frustrated, Because I I understand the frustration

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Speaker 1: and I agree with it to an extent. I think

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Speaker 1: both you and I expect more from them.

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Speaker 2: We'll see what they can pull off.

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Speaker 1: What it is I think that's the that's the question, like,

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Speaker 1: what what is it that there's plenty left as far

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Speaker 1: as options and for the need? What is it that

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Speaker 1: they are able to pull off? We'll figure that out

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Speaker 1: out over the coming weeks.

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Speaker 2: I guess. Happy to hear it everyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, this is North Side territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe,

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to The Athletic

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Speaker 1: where Patrick and I are on top of all things cubs.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening for everyone. Take care,