WEBVTT - Bode Miller 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.360 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left That's Podcast. 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.960 My guest today is a special treat, truly legendary skier 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.040 Bode Miller. Good to have here. How's it going? How 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.200 often do you ski these days? More or less every day? 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.760 So did you go out today? I didn't. Today was 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 one of my one of my bad bad days. Um, 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:34.720 I was on in front of this computer all day, 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.640 which is my least favorite thing. Maybe, but um, yeah, 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.880 it's usually it's been. I probably had fifty five days 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.199 this year, so it's it's a lot. I mean, it's 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.840 not it's not what it used to be. But yeah, 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.120 it's a lot of skiing. Okay, do you still enjoy 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.280 it as much? As much? As pretty subjective? But I 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.560 enjoy it a lot. I enjoy going with my kids 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.360 and just parting around. I can ski with with anybody 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.480 and have a good time. I think more or less 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.960 I liked outside. I would be a really good golf caddy. Um. 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.800 I I golf a lot, and I could give two 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:08.959 ships about hitting the ball. I just like being outside 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:10.720 and walking around. So I think as a caddy, i'd 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.800 carry the bag and kid give advice and um enjoy it. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.280 Probably three times more than I enjoy golf, but um, yeah, 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:19.600 I still you know, the other day we had a 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:21.880 little powder and I and I ran a couple of 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.200 steep shoots with a good young friend of mine who's 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.000 I've known since he was born, um since he's twenty 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.160 years younger than me, and my older sister's best friend's kid, 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.360 and it was there was a unique pleasure that I 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.840 don't know that I've ever really felt before seeing a 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:38.760 kid who I knew from when he was born and 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:40.920 I was a huge influence on his life being that 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.560 We're from the same town and watching him, uh, you know, 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.040 just kill these shoots at at Yellowstone and Big Sky, 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.000 and um, there's definitely a special pleasure of that, but 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.240 I enjoy just all of it about skiing. Now, I 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.760 certainly skied Big s guy. What shoots did you ski? 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:00.320 In this case, we were actually we hiked were way 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.000 over on the Dakota side, so the side that faces 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.760 kind of the south, and and uh we we rode 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.800 up Dakota, we rode up um Shed Horn, and we 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:11.720 hiked up a little bit and then we traversed far 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.600 to the backside kind of the outskirts of what big sky, 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.000 uh limits are, and we we ran a couple of 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:22.320 shoots that kind of face towards I guess the East. Um, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:24.200 I don't know if they even have names over there. 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.160 I don't know that anybody really gets to him because 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:27.839 you have to go off the tram and ski down 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.799 that kind of back ridge and then drop into the 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.640 Dakota Bowl. But that that wasn't the better stuff. Honestly. 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.240 The better stuff was in y c Um just off 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.480 of the shoulder there, and we we went over to 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.360 there's Pinnacle and Corner Pocket and they're just you know, 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.560 they're short and easy, which is perfect for me because 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:46.600 my I'm not as fit as I once was, so 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.799 it's nice that I'm not doing four thousand continuous vertical, 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.400 But um, it was. It was. It was awesome to 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:54.839 watch somebody who had known since they were a kid 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.040 ski and a lot of ways better than I was. Now. 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:00.399 I've certainly skied a ton, not as much to you, 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:02.800 but at this point in time, unless it's a really 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.079 stormy day, which I enjoy, I find it much more 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.440 enjoyable if I'm with somebody. Is that also your experience? 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.320 I like both, honestly, I think for me I'm not 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.680 a I'm not a meditative person um in terms of 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.760 sitting still and being quiet, but skiing gives me that, 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:22.760 and it did when I was young, so I was 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.600 really kind of born into it. I you know, skied 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.600 at Cannon my formative years. Cannon On and I skied 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.680 every day. The mountain was open for three years, and 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.000 there you'd routinely on a on a minus fifteen or 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:38.440 minus twenty day blow and you'd have four or five 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.040 people on the whole mountain. So I was riding the 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.840 chairlift and then the PbD chairs seventeen and it's um, 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.120 you know, the Hong Kong share was twelve minutes. So 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:52.120 I had these intermittent blocks between active action where I'm 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.880 you know, trying to ski of like totally serene silence 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.400 and just looking at nature. And that was my aitation. 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.560 So I think I I revert back to that really easily. 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.720 So for me, skiing alone is different, I think than 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.440 a lot of people. But like I said, that was 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.520 a unique opportunity. The other day of skia, Shamus was 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.560 really I didn't expect to enjoy it as much as 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:16.000 I did because it was disproportionate to just a good 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.919 conversation on the chairlift. I really enjoyed the actual skiing 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.839 and watching him ski now skiing in that cold weather. 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.440 I know, I still have toes at this very moment 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.480 that they're tingling and I'm sitting inside. To what degree 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.119 if you've gotten frostbite, and to what degrees your body 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.640 banged up from being on the circuit. M uh, you know, 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.320 I'm actually not too banged up. My back is a 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:39.520 bit so I wake up, you know, the stiff back 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:41.240 in the morning. I'm not sure how much of that's 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.680 my matches that you can see in the background here, 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.360 or or just my you know, twenty five years of 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.800 racing at a high level. But um, but you know, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.920 I'm super thankful, remarkably lucky considering the crashes I took, 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.040 in the longevity of my career in a really high risk, 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.960 low margin, high consequence sport. But in terms of frost 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.880 bite and stuff, I was I I was gifted with 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:06.560 ray nods. I don't know if you know ray nods. 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.240 I know what you're talking about, kind of a circulatory anomaly, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.640 but done correctly and managed correctly. I think reynods is 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.320 actually a gift for those of us who are cold 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.480 weather athletes, because my hands get really stiff and white 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.880 and uncoordinated really quickly. So like I can be in 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.599 the pool in California and it's probably pools eighty degrees 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.080 or eighty five degrees, and my heels will get all white, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.040 my hands get all white, and I can't really a 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.560 dexterity goes away. But they don't get frostbite ever. I mean, 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.360 I've been in minus thirty five and I've had little 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.200 little bits of frost bit on my knuckles from you know, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.599 certain things, but in general, compared to the people around 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:46.320 me in Maine, when I was at boarding school or 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.960 at Cannon, or even on the World Cup in certain 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.280 instances with super tight boots and out there for you know, 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.080 four or five hours at a time in minus thirty, um, 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.119 I was remarkably lucky. And I think that Ray nods 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:03.560 actually because the cat larry reflects where everything trunches down somehow, 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:09.279 it actually prevents prospect to some degree. Wow, that's pretty interesting. Okay, 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.280 that's my own philosophy. You can. I don't want to 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:16.800 get too scientific on you. No, plenty, Scientifically that's what's great. Okay, 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.680 you have a new education initiative can you tell us 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.600 about that? Yeah, I see l is in STU for 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.600 civic leadership. It comes really I'm I'm sort of the 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.120 figurehead for it, although I've supported it for sixteen years now. 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.760 They've been online for roughly twenty years. UM. The Spawn 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:39.680 family has been stewards of Dwight Academy or Dwight Schools 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.560 for um a hundred years, more than a hundred years, 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:44.679 and the Dwight Schools have been around for a hundred 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.359 and fifty or so years, so a huge legacy and 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:52.280 incredible quality of school and educational purpose and drive and 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.599 also human development. Really, they they put kids in the 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.280 top colleges around the world all the time. But more 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:02.320 than that, they're developing leaderships, pills and uh community UM 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:06.880 responsibility and accountability, all that stuff. So we intended to 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.520 do brick and mortar academies these last few years, and 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.080 we were probably on the ten yard line um of that, 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.400 and then COVID struck and it just kind of really 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:17.560 throw a wrench and things. So we we launched the 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.560 online initiative just to give parents a better opportunity to 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.960 give their kids a high level education during this time 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:28.000 where all these schools are even really fantastic schools are 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.640 really struggling to transition to online learning for these kids, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.760 and um, you know, I see all have been doing 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:35.480 it for twenty years, so they had a nineteen and 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.480 a half year head start. So um it's been. It's 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:40.520 been incredible to engage these kids. We have fifty years 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.920 so students in the Winter Sports Academy, and um it's been. Yeah, 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:46.720 it's you know, it's it's part of my nature. My 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:51.000 grandparents started a tennis camp that was heavily into tennis instruction, 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:55.320 but also character development and community and um, you know, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.720 all the all the good qualities that we all hope 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.080 we could you know, instill in our kids or and 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.640 still in ourselves if we have the choice. Um so 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.880 it's very natural to me. And uh it's been. That's 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:07.760 been one of the really cool things that's come out 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.080 of this COVID debacle. Okay, what specifically is different about 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:16.640 this academy. Uh So, it's an inverted blended curriculum, which 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.640 means essentially each kid is obligated to somewhere between an 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.600 hour and an hour and a half of live online 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.600 classes per day. But during that time, this is the 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.240 inverted part. The teacher actually just facilitates conversation between the kids. 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.640 There is no teacher trying to tell you about your 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.679 homework or what you did or they just they let 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.600 you apply that within your class to how you felt 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.440 about it, what it applies to in real life. They 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.320 facilitate that conversation the rest of your day. You you 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.760 are held accountable to it, and you can self regulate 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.000 manage your time. So, but they're all online courses that 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.600 are essentially self instructed, So they have videos for kids 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.880 who are more visual learners, they have audio and visual 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.839 for reading and all that. It's basically demonstrations of what 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.640 it is and applications in real life. And it's like 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:06.800 you you can't go to your parents and say I 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.280 don't understand what I'm supposed to do. It literally spells 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.640 it out. You have all these different drills. If kids struggle, 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.800 puts them into a different group and they learned that way. 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:20.160 So basically it allows kids to do about twice as 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.040 much work and feel like they're doing half as much. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.559 And then and the only obligation they have, which is 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.400 an hour and a half all day, you know, is 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:33.120 spent conversing with their friends with facilitation of a teacher 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.679 and they come out of it with a you know, 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.400 a degree that will get them into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.199 you know, Stanford, any of the big school So it's 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:43.600 for me. I mean, it's one of those things I 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.400 wish was around when I was there. And my element 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:48.920 of that is then I do webinars weekly. We have 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.200 webinar Wednesdays. I talked to the kids, give them, you know, 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.439 contextual stuff about what I did my career, what I 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.680 wished i'd had, how I deal with stress, how I 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.800 dealt with competition, um, you know, every every rething. And 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.400 it's really just kind of a very family oriented kind 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.360 of feel of just being a resource for them. Plus 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:12.439 I give them training, um missions and and and affiliate 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.920 training programs and products that they could test out and 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.199 try that that I would have loved to have when 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.040 I was younger. I think would have really helped. And 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.000 um yeah, you know, my my role in this, because 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:24.600 we don't have a brick and mortar, is much less 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.680 where I'd be doing programming and kind of day to 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.360 day stuff. In this case, I'm just trying to layer 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.520 in as much help as I can to a really 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.679 kick ass let me be clear, is this only for 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.800 ski racers or is it for the general public. No, 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:39.960 so i CEL has been around for twenty years, so 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.120 they've had students for twenty years doing this for dance, 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:48.199 for acting, for who knows what. But um, the Winter 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.840 Sports Actually Academy was this year and we have kids 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:56.520 who are snowboarders, Nordic alpine, um snowshoe who liked to 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.959 go mountaineering, who just wanted to not do the crappy 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.320 public school program and are finding things to do with 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.760 themselves in the winter. And that's partly what we talked 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.120 about our webinars is just how do you do fun 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.840 stuff that you could explore and when use your youth? 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.200 You know, they all say you youth's wasted on the young. 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.200 I'm trying to make it wasted less. Okay. You know, 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.920 Malcolm Gladwell popularize the theory that ten thousand hours are 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.720 needed to become world class. It's been a lot of 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.600 documentation after that. But let's just assume you were presented 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:29.959 with a very young person under the age of five. 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:32.520 Do you think you could turn that person into a 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.440 competitive World Cup ski racer or do you believe there's 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:40.360 inherent natural talent. Yeah, there's there's an airent natural talent 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:41.760 that will make it a lot easier. I think you 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:43.839 could turn them into a World Cup ski racer. Depending 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.560 on what country they're from. We happen to be gifted 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.560 with a lousy World Cup culture. So being from America, 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.560 you could turn almost any race or get get taken 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.720 them in at five. You could turn almost any racer 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.400 into a World Cup or any person young person into 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:02.440 a World Cup racer. Would they wig races? I doubt it. Um, 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.520 it gets very nuanced and very difficult at the very 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.480 very top. We're talking about the best in the entire world. 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.280 But you could definitely get them to race World Cup 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.120 and place, say, you know, in the top thirty and 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:18.480 in several races for virtually any human uh that you found. Okay, 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.160 let's go back to education. Needless to say, we have 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:25.040 a large education problem in the United States. There's the 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.559 war between religious private public. Is there enough money keeople 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.360 keeping people interested? Teaching to the test as opposed to 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.800 learning to analysis? Uh the analyze two questions, is your 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:42.520 program scalable? And yes or no? Do you feel there's 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.480 a way to solve the educational problem personally? In the 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:49.400 United States. Yeah, I'll start with the second. First is 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.240 is yeah, I think I think ours is fully scalable. 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.880 This is I believe the solution is that the difference 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.480 is we don't you need back end programming because this 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.200 allows for this remarkable amount of freedom and flexibility of schedule. 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.360 You need programming to fit around that what the requirements are, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.240 and that programming has to be done well. School kind 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.319 of cheats that system where they basically lock your kid 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.640 up from eight in the morning till three in the afternoon. 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:19.559 It's more of a glorified glorified babysitting system more than educational. 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:21.520 I mean, the kids, if they're determined, can learn a 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.000 lot and can get something out of it. But in 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.679 my opinion, the more critical elements, as we all see 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.080 as you get to the top of an industry, is 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:36.000 you know, perseverance, um, determination, self reliance, creativity. Things that 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:40.400 aren't necessarily taught in books, they're discovered through activities, are 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.720 through challenges and um I'm hoping that. Yeah, I mean, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.240 ours is fully scaled, but we could literally go. We 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.480 have master class teachers. They're all recorded, so because the 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.200 way they're designed, you don't need more. I mean they 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.280 are what they are. We will refine the curriculum all 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.440 the time, but it's ultimately scalable to the entire us 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.880 and the cost is less than public school. So call 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.720 about eight thousand bucks right now for a public school kid. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.720 Uh cost us about eight thousand bucks to do this 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.439 in the education is about four times better. So how 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:14.520 do you motivate someone who is hardheaded and not motivating? Yeah, 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.080 I mean everyone loves to do something. Um, you know 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:18.680 a lot of people don't know what they love to 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.080 do yet, but they need exposure to lots of things 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.400 to discover what that is, especially young people. It's usually activity, 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.080 interaction with other kids. And then we have a really 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.920 clever way of kind of parlaying that passion, that enthusiasm 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:32.760 for something that you wouldn't have to kick them three 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:34.280 times out the door to go get them to do 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.360 if it was their buddy out there playing basketball or 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.840 going skiing or whatever, they're chomping at the bit to 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.000 go do that. You parlay that into the understanding of 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.360 how to sort of make things that suck not you know, fun, 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:50.080 make things that suck exciting. And it's it's takes a 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.240 little creativity and a little time. But given the flexibility 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.480 of the schedule, it makes a ton easier because they're 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.280 not They're able to exhaust themselves doing things they love 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:00.720 and then come in with a really as an attitude 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.680 in the place, really um sort of receptive to learning 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.080 and and get an incredible amount done. Okay, prior to 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.480 going to Maine Caribasset Academy, which is ski racing Academy, 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:16.760 what was your educational experience? Lay at regional public school 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.600 and then a bit of profile high school, junior high 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.440 and freshman year, and it was, Um, I would say 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.840 it was really easy for me. I wasn't uh, you know, 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.160 exceptional in terms of grades or anything. I was kind 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.360 of a middle of the road student, but I never 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.080 failed things. I just didn't really do a lot of work, 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.760 didn't engage much, wasn't interested. Um, I like science. I 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:39.760 liked you know. I came from a family of doctors. 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.280 My dad was in medical school, as too older brothers 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.640 or doctors, and his grandfather, his father, my grandfather was 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.040 a doctor, um, a prominent East Coast doctor, so I 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.920 kind of had like a I was exposed to lots 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.200 of medical books and lots of my dad, you know, 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.600 still try. He speaks Latin. He as an incredible vocabulary. 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.920 So I had good homeschooling teachers prior to public school, 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.160 which I started in third grade, and then public school 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:03.880 was just kind of a waste of my time, I 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.280 felt like. So I was excited and willing to take 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.960 the risk of going off to boarding school. But it 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.800 was definitely um. It was. It was nigo blow because 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:15.320 I was going from a big fish in a small 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.800 pond to a small fish and a much bigger pond. 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.520 But and the demands were much higher. But I knew 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.240 that I was capable of dealing with it, and so 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.720 I just kind of dove in. Okay, you're a legendary 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.840 independent thinker. Where did you get that from your parents? 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.840 From your family? Yeah, I mean it's it's the great 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.480 mystery is how much is uh nature versus nurture? I 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.720 don't you know? Everyone in my family is stubborn. Right. 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:44.560 We come from New Hampshire. It's a live, free or 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.240 die state, Like just our state motto should tell you something. 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.200 But I also my dad was in third year medical school. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.640 He was in his his what do you call that is? 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:58.080 Um Yeah, he's in the hospital actually diagnosing real patients 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.480 and all that, and he walked from that, through it, 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.800 through it away after coming from a family with a 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.600 very prominent father who's a you know, open heart surgeon 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.560 and pioneering a lot of stuff in the East Coast, 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.600 two older brothers who are doctors practicing, and he walked 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.480 away from that to go speak at Woodstock and uh, 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.320 you know, and formed the political party, the Turtle Party, 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.159 and you know a bunch of he was a hippie, 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.040 you know. He So there's a defiant nature that comes 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.119 from my dad's side and my mom's side is probably 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.520 only amplified their true New Hampshire, Um, you know locals 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.600 and and you know, screw anybody who tries to tell 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.280 me what to do. And so I definitely had it 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:38.520 from that side genetically and and culturally, like it's it's 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:40.000 the nature of New Hampshire. You do what you want 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.080 to do, and um, you stick to it, and you're 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.760 accountable and you don't blame other people. And so I 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.840 had that also through my upbringing of my you know, 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:50.840 i'd leave that when I was four or five years old. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.359 I go outside at eight thirty in the morning and 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.200 i'd come back at four you know, and I don't 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.359 know how much the time my mom was tracking me around. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:01.119 I doubt she was, but um comforting to think she was, 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.960 because I've got myself in a some sketchy situations and 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.399 was touch and go for a lot of times. But um, 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.240 that kind of independence, you know, teaches you a lot 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:15.720 about um risk management and self reliance and and being 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.439 accountable to your actions and that, you know, so I was. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.000 It's it's a mystery to me, but certainly I had 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.119 it from every angle, uh to to develop into a 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:29.359 very defiant, independent, self reliant, uh self motivated person. Okay, 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.440 before you go to care Bassett, what kind of kid 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.280 are you? Are you the loner, a member of the group, 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:40.639 a leader, an outcast? What were you like? Uh? I 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.960 was probably a general? Um I was. I didn't like 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.520 the spotlight, so I didn't like being the guy. And 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.720 there was always the guy. There was like some kid 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.720 who was better looking or it was funny or had 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.000 like you know, all the jokes or whatever. But I 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:57.760 was super dominant in athletics. So on the soccer field baseball, 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.399 I've never played, and I got to be the best 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:01.560 kid on the team really quick. That was really good 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.400 at I wasn't naturally that gifted. I was just exposed 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.520 to a ton of sports as a home schooled kid, 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:09.720 with a tennis camp all summer and skiing all winter, 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.480 and snowboarding and sledding and standing up on those old 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.080 snurfboards and climbing around in the rivers and running up 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.320 and down the rivers and rock climbing of Mountcols. So 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.040 I had this massive if you want to talk about gladwell, 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:26.560 I had this massive volume of hugely dynamic sports activity, coordination, 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.359 mental discipline, all these things at a really young age. 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.800 So it allowed me to adjust and tweak to any 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.560 situation I was in and be successful. So, um, you know, 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.840 I had I had good friends. I was not a bully, 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.359 I was I was a connector. I was friends with 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.520 the older kids because they played sports at a higher 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:46.119 level and I like that. I was friends with a 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.879 skater guys. I smoked a bunch of weed because I 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.919 like skateboarding and you know, and they were fun. I 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.160 was friends with guys who were forty five years old 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.520 because they skied on cold days. They were the ski bums. 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.080 And I played soccer with my uncle's who were a 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.000 generation before me, and so I really had. Like in 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.800 New Hampshire, you don't have the option to pick one friend. 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.879 Ye for me, I, like so many things, I was 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.240 required to make friends with everybody. So I had a 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.080 very diverse group of friends and I was kind of 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.479 jumping around and most of them couldn't understand how does 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.520 he like come skateboard with us and then go rock 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.520 climbing with his uncle or go play a soccer game 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.160 that afternoon. And that's just the way I lived. Okay, 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.280 you talk about home schooling, but from K through the 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.399 first and second year of high school you were in 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:34.200 traditional school, right, No. I started public school in third 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.640 grade in like, yeah, the middle of third grade thing, 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:41.520 how do you decide to go to Cara bassett Um. 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.120 The year before, I had gotten um sort of violated 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.840 in a way, uh politically by a coach in Franconia. 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.000 He'd he'd called up a race after and said that 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.360 I admitted to him that I hooked a tip and 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:56.679 I should be disqualified. I had never done that. He 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:58.760 was upset with me because we had a little bit 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:00.560 of a throwdown in front of some of the other 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.440 kids and a couple of parents where he was saying 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.359 that I couldn't train because I was too bad, and 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:07.240 I should do the drills he wanted me to do, 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:08.840 and I said, I don't care about your drills. I 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:10.679 just want to run some gates because I have j 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.920 O qualifiers tomorrow. And so he was pretty bad heard 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.639 about that argument and and felt like he wanted to 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:18.480 get me back. He called this race how a race 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.480 thrown out? And uh, I didn't make the Junior Olympics 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.960 that year as a twelve year old, and uh, my 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.280 town and and kind of everybody ran him out of 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:29.560 town on a on a you know, tard and feathered, 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:31.760 but it didn't change the fact that it was out 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.000 of the jail is that previous year. And they said, look, 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.480 you know, if you're serious about this, we'll figure out 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:38.840 a way, um to get you into care about that. 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:40.919 My mom was good, was best friends when she was 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:44.720 fifteen with the headmaster's wife, so that was kind of 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:46.359 an in. And then I had to you know, I 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.399 lived with a day student twenty miles away from school, 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:52.760 off in the woods with no no access by car. Um. 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:54.600 That was my first year at c v A, and 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:56.200 I only went for the winter term. So I went 0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:00.480 November and came back, and I guess March um and uh, 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:02.040 and I had to work all summer to pay it off. 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.400 So I paid paid my own way with help from 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.440 some of the locals in my town. But it was, yeah, 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:09.960 it was it was scratching at that point. What did 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.679 your father do for a living having dropped out of 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:18.200 medical school, professional hippie? He? Uh. He and my mom 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.200 were together till I was six, and then they separated 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.840 and he went down to Tennessee primarily because he was 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:28.960 unhappy and I think had had had had had several 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:34.880 you know, early seventies, mid seventies affairs, but also um, 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:38.159 he had missed out on He he invented foot spars, 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.960 which were these date fig maple syrup, a bunch of 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:44.840 different nuts in this tiny little rapper bar. And this 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:49.760 is in nineteen seventy nine probably, and uh that's pre 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.000 power bar, pre everything else. He if you went back 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.240 through his his life from just before I was born, 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.320 he he invented six or seven things that turned into 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.359 billion dollar industries. And he was way ahead of the curve. 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.359 But his lack of ability to see things through or 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.880 or do the steps that maybe weren't as fun for him. Uh, 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:12.880 prevented him from ever monetizing anything. So then he when 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:14.920 he separated from my mom, which I think, as I said, 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:17.040 was not to go make money, but that was part 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:19.119 of the excuse. He went down to Tennessee and was 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:21.359 a tree route, so he would climb up in huge 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:25.800 trees along these big mansion uh driveways and outside of Nashville, 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:27.840 and he he'd clean up the trees and make sure 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:30.480 branches were going to break people's houses and cars. And 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.480 UM he did that for I think five or six 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:37.239 years down there, and then uh ended up moving back up. 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:40.800 Now he's he worked. Phrase he was a homeless outreach 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:44.639 worker for fifteen years in New England. UM, he still 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.920 maintains his very hippie hippie approach. He's never really made 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:52.840 made any money. Okay, if you're at Cara Bassett, you 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:57.080 get out from under the bad coach. You're there, Hey, 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:03.280 do you fit in these the coaching beneficial? UM? I 0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:06.439 would say fit in fine because I love sports and 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:09.840 I was a hard worker. UM coaching was still problematic 0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:12.199 because I was bad. Uh you know that the end 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:14.760 of that first year, UM, I didn't really have any 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.880 good results to speak of. Uh. Certain coaches could see 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:19.280 that I had a lot of ross speed and I 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:24.280 was naturally very athletic um. But they they sat me 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:26.760 down after the first year, and again keep in mind, 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:29.000 I was I was getting up at four thirty in 0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:31.880 the morning, doing chores, getting on a snowbile, snowbiling six 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:35.720 miles along these crazy main trails into Kingfield, hitching a 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:39.400 ride with some worker or employee up to carabast, getting 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:42.320 there in time for morning meeting, going through classes, going 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.960 to hill training classes, come back down, get in a 0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:48.760 car eighteen miles back down to the Kingfield, back on 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:52.399 a snowobile six miles through the woods, chores, homework, dinner, 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:54.959 bed and doing that over and over again. And I 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:57.840 was with another student who was two years older than me, 0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:00.840 but then he would go off on fist racing trips 0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:02.160 for a week and a half two weeks, so I'd 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:04.320 be on my own. So I was, you know, fourteen 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:07.640 years old, driving my own snowobile through six miles from 0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:10.960 the woods like rickety ass. And at the end of 0:25:10.960 --> 0:25:13.159 that year I had they had like an intervention. They 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.600 sat down with the Dina students, UM all the coaches 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:19.400 and they said, look, you're lazy and you. You suck 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.199 at skiing, You're never gonna be any good. Um, we 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:24.560 don't like your attitude. You don't, you don't really you know, 0:25:24.920 --> 0:25:27.800 show a lot of like initiative enthusiasm. If you switch 0:25:27.880 --> 0:25:29.960 to snowboarding, we'll give you a full ride back to school, 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.560 you'll live in the dorm next year, won't pay anything 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:35.400 all set. Um. I was good at snowboarding. I'd grown 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:37.879 up snowboarding and we had an all school snowboard races. 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:40.080 What inspired this is I was like second or third 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:41.439 and one of the runs and the that we had 0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:43.800 the best snowboards in the country at that time, and 0:25:43.880 --> 0:25:46.160 they went around the circle and basically all just just 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:49.960 pop my balloon, like talk about p in the serial. 0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:52.560 It was. It was brutal, and I was happy not 0:25:52.680 --> 0:25:54.800 to have broken down and cried right there, because it 0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:57.520 was pretty brutal because I I was doing double what 0:25:57.600 --> 0:26:00.560 any other student in the school was doing, minus the 0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:04.119 dude who was my my sort of I guess housemate, 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:06.600 but he was even doing less than I wasn't he's 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:10.160 a couple of years older, so um. But I reflected 0:26:10.160 --> 0:26:12.080 on that thought about a bunch and then told him 0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:13.720 the pounds and and that if they needed to charge 0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:15.800 me more to come back to school, i'd I'd figure 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:17.119 out a way to pay it. And I wanted to 0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:19.119 be a ski racer and snowboarding was not what I 0:26:19.160 --> 0:26:22.399 wanted to do, so um yeah, I fit in, but 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:27.520 I was still definitely defiant and definitely was not fitting 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.520 into the system the way they wanted to. And I said, look, 0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:31.600 you guys, I suck now. I'll give you that. You're 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:34.960 not wrong, but I'm gonna be better when I'm fifteen, 0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:36.760 and I'm gonna be better when i'm eighteen, and when 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:39.320 i'm twenty you'll start to see how good I can be. 0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:41.920 That's what it's gonna take. And I apologize if that's 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:44.240 too long a timeline for you guys, but you know, 0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:47.200 I've known this for ten years at that point, since 0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:48.639 I was six or seven when I talked to my 0:26:48.720 --> 0:26:51.080 grandmother about it a bunch and I said, look, it's 0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:52.639 not important how good I am when I'm fifty and 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:54.199 there's not a lot of prize money there, and if 0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:56.560 you win races, you know, it's it's a different deal. 0:26:56.600 --> 0:26:58.200 I need to be good when I'm when I'm old 0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:03.160 enough to be successful in the world stage. Okay, ultimately 0:27:03.280 --> 0:27:07.680 you were, but you know, you have a unique style, 0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:10.440 and certainly I grew up in the area. Was your 0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:12.520 in the are of first your skis were together, then 0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:14.840 racers were a part and they had changed in equipment. 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:18.679 Was the coaching ever helpful or really you were coaching 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:22.520 yourself and you had the benefit of them setting the 0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:27.400 gates up and logistics. I would say both. I mean, 0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:30.960 I think the coaching was very rarely helpful in the 0:27:31.000 --> 0:27:34.320 immediate term. I think the coaching was really helpful long term, 0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:38.520 over over one or two year span where I listened 0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:42.200 to everything and I retain information really well, and mostly 0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:43.879 what I was doing. The way that I developed, in 0:27:43.880 --> 0:27:45.920 the way that I learned things was by watching other people. 0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:48.520 I would watch somebody who I liked a certain thing. 0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:50.359 They could be worse than I did than I was 0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:53.679 at that time, but I liked specifically the way they 0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:55.640 moved into a turn. And I had a very good 0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:59.560 understanding of of sort of the biomechanics of skiing and 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:01.760 how did underrate speed. And that's one thing that I 0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:04.359 wasn't willing to give up, and that was always a 0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:07.040 pushback from the coaches. They wanted me to do manually 0:28:07.119 --> 0:28:09.320 adjust certain things, and I said, I can't do those 0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:12.040 things because it'll cost me these things that I need 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.040 to keep alive because if I if I kill him, 0:28:14.080 --> 0:28:16.159 I'm not sure I'll have arrest resurrect them later. And 0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:19.399 those are the most important things. So UM, the coaching, 0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:22.320 I would say in hindsight, was a lot of it 0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:29.280 was UM was emotional arousal control and races patients. I 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:32.040 learned a lot of that stuff from those coaches, and 0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:34.080 I had some amazing coaches up at t v A. 0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:38.280 From a technical standpoint, I don't think I learned that much. Okay, 0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:42.959 speaking of technical standpoint, you had a breakthrough. You were 0:28:42.960 --> 0:28:44.880 in the U S Nationals I believe it was, and 0:28:45.120 --> 0:28:49.400 used the K two for which was a shaped recreational ski. 0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:54.680 How did you decide to do that? I've been a snowboarder, um, 0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:56.160 as I said. They tried to get me a switch 0:28:56.200 --> 0:28:57.920 of snowboarding in ninth grade. This is all the way 0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:00.280 into my senior year, and I've been working on rage 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:02.640 tore me who was a K two rep uh and 0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:04.680 the East Coast too. Raised with my uncle, so I had, 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:06.640 you know, kind of a little extra credibility with him 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:10.400 and he's a great dude. And uh, I'd cut a snowboard, 0:29:10.440 --> 0:29:14.160 alpine snowboard in half and mounted mounted ski bindings on 0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:15.800 it and flipped the edges so that I had one 0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:19.360 side cut edge and then one raw band sad edge. 0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:21.440 If you touch that to the snow, you crashed immediately. 0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:24.240 And I was arcing turns and I had George watched me, 0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:26.280 and I said, George, we need to build a shape ski. 0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:28.400 I was always trying to innovate. It was during that 0:29:28.440 --> 0:29:31.280 time we had Derby flex and higher lifters, and the 0:29:31.320 --> 0:29:33.600 one thing that was missing was more side cut. And 0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:36.480 you could clearly see that snowboarders could turns all day 0:29:36.480 --> 0:29:39.200 that it would have been happening for years, and we 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:41.440 just hadn't done in skiing. So George said, hey, we 0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:43.640 tried that in the seventies. It didn't work. I was like, well, 0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:46.160 you tried it wrong, let's try it again. And um, 0:29:46.360 --> 0:29:48.320 I had worked on him for two years. Finally he 0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:51.240 got them to build a semblance of of what I'd 0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:54.000 asked for. And I did everything from exact construction. I 0:29:54.040 --> 0:29:57.040 wanted a cap construction to give torsional stiffness, and I 0:29:57.080 --> 0:29:58.880 was in mechanical drawing and all that stuff. So I 0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:01.080 was doing at a on board and I was drawing 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:05.080 everything out and um, finally he built them, and uh, 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:07.880 the day that I got them, it changed really changed 0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:11.600 the sport. Um Alan had been developing their shape ski 0:30:11.680 --> 0:30:14.400 during that same phase, but no one had skied on 0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:17.000 it yet, and races, no one had really experimented with it. 0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:19.719 So the K two four was the first ski that 0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:22.440 I had really developed um and forced through and I 0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:24.760 raced on it in the Junior Olympics and I won 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:27.920 the Super G by two point you know, seven seconds, 0:30:28.000 --> 0:30:31.040 and I was more than five seconds ahead before I crashed. 0:30:31.000 --> 0:30:32.600 I went on my hip a couple of times on 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:34.640 the bottom and lost a ton of time, but still 0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:37.200 ended up winning by almost three seconds, and then won 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:39.600 the Giant Sloan by over two seconds as well with 0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:42.240 several crashes, and the Giant Slam as well. So that 0:30:42.360 --> 0:30:44.760 really shocked people and opened the eyes and put the 0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:47.560 you know, the magnifying glass on K two. And then 0:30:47.720 --> 0:30:50.120 the next year, everybody, I didn't use those skis in 0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:53.440 the nationals. That's that's a common mistake. I was only 0:30:53.440 --> 0:30:57.120 in the nationals for Giant slom and and slom and 0:30:57.200 --> 0:31:00.000 I crashed in the gs and blew out. And then 0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:02.200 and the slalom, I used the traditional ski. My my 0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:04.520 slalom ski was the same length as my K two four, 0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:06.600 so I was using the same length and slalom and 0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:10.240 gs and uh and I'm pulled off a really magical 0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:13.600 um run from way back in the pack and finished 0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:16.160 third to objectively qualified for the team. If I hadn't 0:31:16.160 --> 0:31:18.800 objectively qualified, there was zero chance they were taking me 0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:23.560 on the team. Okay, so you are partially responsible for 0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:28.160 the development of the K four K two four. Yeah, yeah, 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:32.000 And I think I mean not to split hairs. But 0:31:32.120 --> 0:31:35.320 I wouldn't even say partially. I would say, uh, you know, 0:31:35.520 --> 0:31:38.120 nineties seven percent. They fought me on it for two years. 0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:41.040 I've been pushing it. I gave George the snowboard. I 0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:43.160 showed him the side cut, I showed him everything. I 0:31:43.200 --> 0:31:46.000 cut the snowboard even thinner, and that screwed it up. 0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:47.480 And I said, this is what you did in the 0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:50.160 seventies when you tried shape skis. You didn't have the torsion. 0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:52.720 If I left the snowboard as half, I had a 0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:55.120 raw edge of wood that i'd bands on, and then 0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:57.800 a side cut finished edge. I could arc turns on 0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:00.440 that if I cut off another half of that to 0:32:00.520 --> 0:32:02.600 make it the width of a normal race ski. Its 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:04.880 skied like ship because it was too torsionately weak. It 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:07.400 would twist too much, and that's what they had messed up. 0:32:07.440 --> 0:32:09.920 So I said, you know, I really worked hard on 0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:12.120 him for two years, and I will say, of all 0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:16.360 my qualities, my persistence and stubbornness are are two of 0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:19.600 my elite level of qualities. And I just wore them down, honestly. 0:32:19.640 --> 0:32:21.320 And he finally went in there and said, look, dude, 0:32:21.320 --> 0:32:23.000 we gotta build these skis. And they didn't even really 0:32:23.000 --> 0:32:25.240 tell him. He said, it's a Rex ski. It'll be awesome. 0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:27.360 We'll try it. They built him and they sold out 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:30.080 across the country in a week and a half. Okay, 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:33.360 let's talk about equipment. You were with numerous companies. You 0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:36.000 started with Fisher, you went to ros and y'all. You 0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:41.040 were Thetomic, you went to Head. Is there really any difference. 0:32:41.480 --> 0:32:44.120 Let's just start with the skis themselves opposed to the boots. 0:32:44.360 --> 0:32:48.320 Is there really any difference or you can get in 0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:51.360 and make the ski work for you. No, it's a 0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:54.560 massive difference, massive difference. I mean the engineers are are 0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:59.160 different philosophically, the equipment, the layoup process side cuts there. 0:32:59.240 --> 0:33:02.120 There's a huge prints also that they became systems pretty early, 0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:05.680 where a boot, binding plate, ski all work together, and 0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:07.800 if you didn't have that right you could really screwed up. 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:10.920 But keep in mind before that, I skied on UM 0:33:11.200 --> 0:33:16.280 K two Olwen Rosignal previous to World Cup racing. This 0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:19.040 is through my sort of high school years. UM. I 0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:24.520 skied on uh Nasal, I skied on Atomic twice, really 0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:27.480 two different versions there. UM, and I gravitated towards K 0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:30.200 two because of the relationship with George, and I was 0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:33.200 able to get better skis and then UM. But yeah, 0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:37.040 the difference from KTU to Fisher was was night and day. 0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:39.000 I mean it was a huge I would have had 0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:41.840 a really, really really hard time trying to win a 0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:43.920 World Cup race that I stayed on K two my 0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:47.640 entire career, UM, regardless of my own engineering prowess or 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:50.480 anything else. Fisher I had the ability to win races 0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:53.720 that year. Um, then Rosignal I had the ability to 0:33:53.720 --> 0:33:56.920 win races and start moving into speed effectively, so into 0:33:56.960 --> 0:34:00.840 super ge downhill, and then UM from from Rozzie. Is 0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:03.000 when I kind of I wouldn't say sold out, but 0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:06.040 switched to Atomic where I knew I was do. I 0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:10.000 was physically finally mature and strong enough, and um, I 0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:12.040 knew I could be a world beater. So I switched 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:14.160 to Atomic and that's when I won, you know, the 0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:17.200 Wired to wire overall World Cup and all the events 0:34:17.280 --> 0:34:20.920 in seventeen days, you know. Um. And then and then 0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:23.960 after that was more of I wanted to develop skis 0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:26.960 and fell in with Head and stayed with them for 0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:37.520 three years. Okay, let's start with Fisher. Okay, I agree, 0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:40.080 totally ski ski totally different. I happen to like the 0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:42.560 French skis. I like something a little bit more alive. 0:34:42.960 --> 0:34:46.560 But at World Cup level you're not skiing on retail skis. 0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:50.960 So when we talk about Fisher, would you tell them 0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:52.680 how to make the skis or they just had a 0:34:52.680 --> 0:34:54.520 bunch of skis? You tested them and you skied what 0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:57.520 you liked. No. By that point I had a very 0:34:57.520 --> 0:34:59.080 clear idea. That was a big part of it is 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:01.520 K two was actually pulling away from World Cup, and 0:35:02.160 --> 0:35:04.399 it was almost mandatory. I switched. And when I went 0:35:04.440 --> 0:35:06.839 to several companies which I was in demand. I could 0:35:06.840 --> 0:35:10.400 have switched to several UM. I told Fisher, will you 0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:12.919 build me this exact slom ski? This is the ski 0:35:13.080 --> 0:35:16.360 it needs to be, this, this fiberglass, this top sheet, 0:35:16.640 --> 0:35:20.360 this side cut, this would core this many laminates across. 0:35:20.600 --> 0:35:22.239 Will you build me this? And they said, yeah, it's 0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:25.359 not gonna work, but we'll build it for you. And 0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:27.839 I said, okay, build it for me. And UM that 0:35:27.920 --> 0:35:30.520 was that was a dealmaker because the other companies were 0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:32.840 at that time this is you know, in two thousand, 0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:36.680 UM I was. I didn't have the credibility and the 0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:39.920 industry wasn't prepared to take that type of input from 0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:42.480 the athletes. They would take, as you said, they'd give 0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:44.480 them five pairs, which do you like best? And then 0:35:44.920 --> 0:35:46.919 they would go back and try to figure out which 0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:49.160 materials to change to make the new ones better and 0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:52.120 all that. So, UM, that was the very beginning of that. 0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:54.440 And I wanted a company that was going to do 0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:58.080 exactly what I said, and Fisher offered to do that, UM, 0:35:58.200 --> 0:36:00.000 and so I went. And actually that was the beginning 0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:03.520 of a massive revolution in the sport where within two 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:07.120 years every company had their athletes in the actual ski 0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:10.759 room showing them fiberglass, showing them metals, and trying to 0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:12.759 figure out because there was a huge gap between what 0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:15.680 you felt on the hill and what the engineer decided 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:19.560 was going to impact that feeling. There. There's there's thirty 0:36:19.560 --> 0:36:21.600 ways to skin a cat in that case, and they 0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:23.400 just had too big a gap. So we closed that 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:27.719 gap right up, okay, slowly. How and why did you 0:36:27.760 --> 0:36:33.640 decide to switch to Rozzie. I decided because of one 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:37.400 particular gs ski, so I'd want a couple of slams 0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:40.160 on Fisher. I had won a couple of gs is. 0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:45.440 Um the ski was already going down the path that 0:36:45.520 --> 0:36:48.719 we ended up on then now, which is a very 0:36:48.760 --> 0:36:52.040 tiptail ski, so you could feel the very very tip 0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:54.560 of the ski engaged in the snow, and if it 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:58.040 hit a bump, it would deflect and you'd lose radios, 0:36:58.080 --> 0:37:00.279 so it would flap down and it would just and 0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:05.440 I skied on Nordica, I skied on Razzie, I skied 0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:09.520 on Dinas Star And the rosignal skis that they had 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:12.680 for me at that time was a complete anomaly in 0:37:12.719 --> 0:37:14.919 the irony, As this has happened to me several times. 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:17.719 They built five pairs. So it's a prototype run of 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:21.040 a ski and they said, have body test these keys. Um, 0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:23.280 they couldn't get the I don't know if you remember Rozzie. 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:24.759 At that time, they had a V A S plate. 0:37:24.840 --> 0:37:27.000 It's this little metal plate that's stuck on the top 0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:29.640 of the ski. They couldn't get that plate to stick 0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:32.560 to the aluminum which is right under the top sheet, 0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:35.319 and then the felt it was metal on metal and 0:37:35.360 --> 0:37:39.640 it would just fly off. And so they actually on 0:37:39.760 --> 0:37:42.680 that particular batch, they said, well, ship will just cut 0:37:42.680 --> 0:37:44.879 a hole in the aluminium, will will stick that thing 0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:47.399 through that hole to the aluminium, will glue it onto 0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:50.279 the wood below, and it worked perfect. So stayed on. 0:37:50.840 --> 0:37:53.200 I got all five of those pairs of skis. I 0:37:53.239 --> 0:37:56.560 broke one immediately actually in the testing program. But because 0:37:56.600 --> 0:37:58.719 they cut that hole in the top layer of aluminum, 0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:00.400 they created a bit of a hinge point in the 0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:03.600 ski right there, and you had this unbelievable grip point 0:38:03.760 --> 0:38:06.440 just in front of the binding. So if you slid 0:38:06.440 --> 0:38:09.640 into a turn in chundery, you know, icy conditions, you 0:38:09.719 --> 0:38:11.640 had this grip point right in front of the binding 0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:14.160 that you could always rely on. And the tip wasn't 0:38:14.160 --> 0:38:17.360 even the part grabbing you pulled radius that was disproportionate 0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:20.279 to your side cut because the tip was actually not 0:38:20.400 --> 0:38:22.600 doing it. It was just folding in this tiny little 0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:24.520 space right in front of the binding and you just 0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:27.320 it was like a hockey skate. And I I didn't 0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:28.919 know at the time that that was the only five 0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:32.600 pairs in existence. UH three M who was their glue 0:38:32.600 --> 0:38:35.759 provider at that time, gave them glue that worked. They 0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:38.040 built every ski from that point forward without cutting a 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:40.320 hole in the aluminum because now the metal stuck to 0:38:40.360 --> 0:38:42.560 the metal and stayed on there perfectly. And we spent 0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:44.800 two years trying to figure out why my race skis 0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:47.200 were the best skis ever built, and every other pair 0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:50.319 they built was garbage compared to it. So um that 0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:53.120 one ski was the reason. It was everything I've been 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:54.960 looking for. And I went one the g S title 0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:57.840 against one of the strongest giants long and fields that 0:38:57.960 --> 0:39:01.960 that's been around, um you know, Herman Benny Reich, uh 0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:07.000 Shaun Felder, Pollander, uh d d A Couch Um Niberg 0:39:07.320 --> 0:39:10.120 eber Harder. It was like the powerhouse of g skiing 0:39:10.120 --> 0:39:12.520 at that time. For me to win was something that 0:39:12.680 --> 0:39:14.520 I wouldn't have been able to do with any other 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:19.040 ski company at that time. Okay, now from a retail level, 0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:24.000 Rozzie's in Atomic Sky radically differently. Did you experience that, 0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:26.239 You say you went for the money, but that's a 0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:29.759 big switch. No, I didn't. I mean you mean when 0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:33.000 I supposed to Atomic. No. That was one of the 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:35.520 great regrets in my career looking back, was that I 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:37.560 went to Atomic. They paid me half as much as 0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:40.880 Rossie did, and a quarter as much as Nordica was 0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:42.719 offering me at that time. A quarter. I would have 0:39:42.719 --> 0:39:44.960 had the biggest contract there's ever been in ski racing 0:39:45.239 --> 0:39:48.279 by going to Nordica. But Um in Nordica had almad 0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:50.359 at that time he was just kind of phasing out. 0:39:50.400 --> 0:39:52.560 I would have had an amazing quiver of skis. They 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:54.279 were good in four events. I could have stayed on 0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:57.720 Nordica boots Um. There was a lot there that that really, 0:39:58.040 --> 0:40:00.800 in hindsight, I would love to know would have happened 0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:03.719 had I made that switch. But the Atomics I was 0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:05.600 on at that time with the Beta, so that was 0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:08.680 that that little arch top they had two aluminum tubes 0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:11.640 in there. That Beta did the same thing that Rozzie 0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:14.239 cutting the hole in their ski did, but a different way. 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:18.000 It created a torsional imbalance between those two tubes that 0:40:18.040 --> 0:40:21.920 were longitudinally very stiff. The ski was was really stiff, 0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:24.960 but tortially all the way up until the binding. The 0:40:25.000 --> 0:40:27.560 ski actually rotated this way because there were two separate 0:40:27.600 --> 0:40:31.960 tubes that moved independently, and that that was a remarkable 0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:34.560 g ski. Um. It was the second best GSK I'd 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:37.840 ever been on. And I wanted Atomic because of super 0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:41.040 G downhill. I was willing to suck in slam and 0:40:41.040 --> 0:40:43.640 and figure it out, but I wanted super G downhill 0:40:43.640 --> 0:40:46.360 because what I was on on Rosenal was not allowed 0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:49.000 me to move into downhill SUPERG. But I wasn't competitive 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:53.000 and you know again I can't second guess myself. And 0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:55.920 that I got on Atomic built my first pair of 0:40:55.920 --> 0:41:00.080 boots was down in Cheon in Chile, south of Santiago Go. 0:41:00.560 --> 0:41:04.000 And I didn't lose a run of supergier downhill skiing 0:41:04.000 --> 0:41:07.319 against the entire French team Darren, my own team, who 0:41:07.360 --> 0:41:10.719 was who was strong at that time, UM for for 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:12.600 a month and a half and I didn't I didn't 0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:16.040 lose a single run. I mean, so it was kind 0:41:16.040 --> 0:41:17.960 of a I wish I knew what would happen if 0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:19.520 I had made a different choice, But it was a 0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:23.920 very strong switch. Okay, when you were there, certainly the Austrians, 0:41:23.920 --> 0:41:27.000 an Austrian company, Herman Meyer, et cetera. You're kind of 0:41:27.040 --> 0:41:30.440 further down the totem pole. Does that affect what equipment 0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:33.960 you get in, what attention you get? Yeah, that was 0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:37.200 a big part of the oh six Olympic debacle. Um 0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:40.080 I built a supergee ski. There was also a downhill 0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:46.320 ski UM in in say September, and UH and they 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:50.080 politically there was shenanigans there. They the Austrian team, which 0:41:50.120 --> 0:41:54.440 basically controls the Austrian factory, UH, took those skis test them. 0:41:54.440 --> 0:41:56.680 They couldn't figure them out, which is I wasn't trying 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:58.879 to do intentionally, but there was a very specific way 0:41:58.880 --> 0:42:01.239 those skis need to be too and and mounted to 0:42:01.320 --> 0:42:03.239 work right, and they couldn't figure it out. So they 0:42:03.320 --> 0:42:05.560 kept trying and kept trying them. No guy could make 0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:07.640 them work. They were super fast on the flats, but 0:42:07.640 --> 0:42:09.799 they couldn't figure out to make them turn. And they 0:42:09.840 --> 0:42:12.279 held those all the way until two days before the 0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:14.400 Olympic downhill UM and then they gave him to me 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:15.960 and Darren because they knew that I wouldn't be able 0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:18.600 to resist trying them and they felt like that would 0:42:18.640 --> 0:42:20.719 be a distraction. Darren and I were the two strongest 0:42:20.719 --> 0:42:24.280 downhillers really in the world at that point, and uh, 0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:26.520 and they wanted every advantage they could get, and that 0:42:26.600 --> 0:42:30.680 political Shenanigan's upset both of us. We ended up racing 0:42:30.680 --> 0:42:32.640 on the same pair of skis Darren and I. I 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:35.520 skied first, I was starting before him. They ran the 0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:38.200 skis up the chairlift. He they re finished them at 0:42:38.239 --> 0:42:41.120 the start and he ran the same skis and unfortunately, 0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:43.759 lack of experience on them and all that we we 0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:47.200 didn't have success in the downhill. I won the combined 0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:51.920 downhill against the same field a day later by a second. Um. So, 0:42:52.000 --> 0:42:55.120 I mean, you know, they were successful in in thwarding 0:42:55.120 --> 0:42:58.759 our our stuff. But uh, that was a piece of 0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:01.640 why I was so petulant and upset during that oh 0:43:01.719 --> 0:43:04.440 six Olympics, because my team didn't go to bat for me, 0:43:04.520 --> 0:43:06.880 and I was just, uh, yeah, I was taking advantage 0:43:06.880 --> 0:43:08.960 of it away. How long does a pear of race 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:13.040 skis last depends on how good year keeping them safe. 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:16.600 My my Rozzie's ice skied on the same pair of 0:43:16.640 --> 0:43:21.600 race skis the entire first year and say six of 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:26.040 eight races the second year one and would but I wouldn't. 0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:28.040 But I wouldn't. I wouldn't train on them. I wouldn't 0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:29.840 bring them out for anything. I wouldn't even bring my 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:32.560 training skis out to train on. I would train on 0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:35.440 other skis that I specifically tuned in a way to 0:43:35.520 --> 0:43:37.359 make them more similar to my race skis, even though 0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:39.600 I was nowhere near time wise. And we had a 0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:42.440 little funny thing at Solden where we'd we'd do the 0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:44.560 Austrian time trial before the first World Cup of the 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:47.000 year was was sold in the US had a sort 0:43:47.000 --> 0:43:50.440 of relationship with Austria. We trained with them, and we'd 0:43:50.480 --> 0:43:52.400 be training on it right before the time trial, and 0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:54.759 my coaches like, dude, you're sucking, Like what's going on. 0:43:54.840 --> 0:43:56.520 I'd like, don't worry about I'll be fine, and I'd 0:43:56.520 --> 0:43:58.440 go out and bring out just my training skis for 0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:01.040 the time trial. And I won that time trial. I 0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:03.520 won both runs three years in a row, against all 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:05.680 the Austrians and all of our team, And then I 0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:07.360 would put those skis away and I'd go back to 0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:09.480 getting beat by guys on my own team, and then 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:11.160 I'd pull out the race skis for a race day 0:44:11.160 --> 0:44:13.520 and and win races on them. But it's just you 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:15.040 have to know how to manage them, and you've gotta 0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:18.359 be really careful with what you do. Even hitting hard ice, 0:44:18.440 --> 0:44:20.360 you can't you can't jam certain ways on it. You 0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:23.120 certainly can't hit rocks or anything else. Okay. In the 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:25.359 switch to head you were really the first big name 0:44:25.400 --> 0:44:30.400 to go to head. Yeah. Johan Eliosh, who's the owner 0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:32.719 of head Um, you know, and I got to know 0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:35.759 each other a bit and he said, look, you know, 0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:38.040 my goal is to be the number one ski company 0:44:38.040 --> 0:44:39.600 in the world. And I was like, all right, let's 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:41.520 do it. I was like, if I'm gonna join you, 0:44:41.520 --> 0:44:43.360 you gotta I said. I don't want to get a 0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:45.919 bunch of push back. I said, you know me, Uh, 0:44:45.960 --> 0:44:48.120 if you're bringing me on for this, I can. I 0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:49.919 can get you there. You will be in the number 0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:52.520 one ski company. When I tell you to buy this athlete, 0:44:53.080 --> 0:44:55.280 you don't bicker about it. You just buy that athlete. 0:44:55.280 --> 0:44:57.400 When I tell you about build new skis in this category, 0:44:57.440 --> 0:44:59.799 build new skis like it's gonna cost you some money, 0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:01.480 but will get to number one. He said, I'm not 0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:04.359 concerned about the money. Let's do it. And um, that 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:08.040 was an exciting fun, uh new project for me because 0:45:08.040 --> 0:45:10.040 I was building skis not just for myself. I was 0:45:10.040 --> 0:45:12.360 building skis for the women's team. I was building skis 0:45:12.400 --> 0:45:15.360 for men's who skied very differently than I did in 0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:17.719 some cases, were much more talented in certain areas than 0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:20.760 I was. And that was that was fun. I enjoyed 0:45:20.800 --> 0:45:23.520 that a lot. Okay, but you're essentially going, it's a 0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:26.080 blank slate. Did you really just tell them how to 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:30.920 build the skis? They had did remarkable engineers. Um, you know, 0:45:31.000 --> 0:45:34.279 Head was maybe the strongest in the entire world in 0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:37.560 terms of their raw engineering power. What they didn't have 0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:40.360 was what all these other ski companies that really capitalized 0:45:40.360 --> 0:45:44.400 in the six years previous to that was really good 0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:47.200 communication with top level athletes who are raising World Cup 0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:49.600 all the time. They just didn't have the athletes, and 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:53.680 they didn't have a rapport or vocabulary to communicate even 0:45:53.719 --> 0:45:57.040 with the athletes they did have, which were lower level. Um. 0:45:57.120 --> 0:45:59.400 So yeah, when I came on, I basically communicated with 0:45:59.400 --> 0:46:02.920 those engineer it was. It was a great It was 0:46:02.960 --> 0:46:05.720 a great time because they understood everything I said. Nothing 0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:07.520 was shocking. They had already done a bunch of great 0:46:07.520 --> 0:46:11.040 things over the past years that I actually reinvigorated and said, no, 0:46:11.360 --> 0:46:13.600 I think you were really close. This was an awesome idea. 0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:15.400 You guys are way ahead of the curve. You just 0:46:15.440 --> 0:46:18.320 have to tweak these things because here's how this feels 0:46:18.360 --> 0:46:20.440 on the snow, and here's what you're missing. And they 0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:23.440 could do it, you know, overnight, and then I'd moved things. 0:46:23.480 --> 0:46:25.759 So we moved forward very quickly. Within that first year 0:46:26.080 --> 0:46:29.200 when I switched um that was six or seven season. 0:46:29.280 --> 0:46:31.200 We had the best speed skis on the planet that 0:46:31.239 --> 0:46:34.480 first year because we reinvigorated the traction system with that cut. 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:37.080 They put this cut through the top layer and top 0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:39.240 layer of aluminum and they bridge that with a piece 0:46:39.239 --> 0:46:41.680 of aluminium underneath it. But it does that same thing. 0:46:41.719 --> 0:46:44.359 It creates an inflection point in the ski and they 0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:46.759 just hadn't quite got that right. And we got that right, 0:46:46.760 --> 0:46:49.160 and the skew was unbelievable. What about the famous two 0:46:49.280 --> 0:46:54.520 edge skis to I mean, like the one was on 0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:56.960 top of another, that those work was that you know, 0:46:57.160 --> 0:47:00.560 just get a lot of press. I think it just 0:47:00.600 --> 0:47:02.319 got a lot of press. I mean it was you know, 0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:05.920 there's metal slow period, like the thinner edges the better, UM. 0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:08.960 But there's certain elements of that that I think are 0:47:08.960 --> 0:47:13.640 gonna be relevant in the future. UM, particularly for big 0:47:13.680 --> 0:47:17.320 mountain really steep stuff, having an edge that skis normally, 0:47:17.640 --> 0:47:20.200 but having a secondary edge that comes out of your 0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:23.959 side wall. That's essentially for fifties six degree pitches that 0:47:24.040 --> 0:47:26.400 what you have a grip point that's really only right 0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:29.000 underneath your foot where you don't feel the tip or 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:30.880 the tail. You're you're just like a hockey skate right 0:47:30.920 --> 0:47:34.439 under your foot. And that can be UM, really really 0:47:34.480 --> 0:47:36.920 important for safety when you're up on a you know, 0:47:37.080 --> 0:47:39.600 face that you're suspended over eight hundred foot cliff and 0:47:39.640 --> 0:47:41.960 you you know, your tip HiT's a wind drift and 0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:45.120 your backwards and UM, I think there's a lot to that. 0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:48.440 I think there's been some unbelievably smart creative engineers in 0:47:48.440 --> 0:47:52.040 the sport over the last four or five decades. And 0:47:52.239 --> 0:47:55.120 unfortunately it's it's a system. So it's kind of like 0:47:55.120 --> 0:47:57.319 a house of cards. If you did everything right, but 0:47:57.440 --> 0:47:59.279 one thing was wrong and the whole thing didn't work. 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:01.759 So in this case, a lot of it is revisiting 0:48:01.760 --> 0:48:05.120 really old clever ideas and figuring out how to um, 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:07.160 you know, tweak them a little bit and see if 0:48:07.160 --> 0:48:10.000 there's if there's value there. Okay, what about boots? What 0:48:10.040 --> 0:48:12.560 was your revolution in boots? You certainly switched a number 0:48:12.560 --> 0:48:15.920 of times. Yeah, and and boots roy is a frustration 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:18.880 point for me. I wish that, um, i'd had a 0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:21.080 wealthy benefactor who would allowed me to build my own 0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:25.280 boots UM because I felt like it's such a crazy 0:48:25.520 --> 0:48:28.759 concept that we build this more or less chunk of 0:48:28.800 --> 0:48:31.760 plastic that just bends and flexes and somehow it works. 0:48:31.800 --> 0:48:33.800 And it does work, I won't deny that, but it 0:48:33.880 --> 0:48:36.400 doesn't work as well as it should um. To me, 0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:39.879 boots are much more of an engineering piece than any 0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:42.360 other part of the system. Right is you should have 0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:47.120 a boot that's controlled by either gas shocks, oil shocks, elastomers. 0:48:47.239 --> 0:48:50.800 Something there shouldn't be just plastic. The bending and bubbling 0:48:51.160 --> 0:48:52.879 where you know, in the whole front of the boot 0:48:52.920 --> 0:48:55.560 where all the flexing and movement happens, is constantly being 0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:57.239 open and closed to get your foot in it out 0:48:57.280 --> 0:49:00.640 of it and like, if you buckle the buckles lightly tighter, 0:49:00.680 --> 0:49:03.680 you get a totally different performance, you know, curved than 0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:05.960 you would with a looser It's just to me that 0:49:06.000 --> 0:49:08.560 was insane. So when I was on Nordica, I had 0:49:08.600 --> 0:49:12.360 some breakthroughs in terms of basic understanding of what different 0:49:12.360 --> 0:49:14.600 things could do to a boot, and that was my 0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:17.400 favorite boot. Um. When I was on Atomic I I 0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:19.880 did the same things and was able to create a 0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:22.359 really good four event boot. I see the exact same 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:25.480 boot and slomgs supertoo downhill in one uh you know, 0:49:25.680 --> 0:49:29.120 seven races in in fourteen days or seventeen days or something. 0:49:29.160 --> 0:49:32.560 So um and on the same boot, and that that 0:49:32.719 --> 0:49:35.800 was the sort of extent beyond that, I think boots 0:49:35.800 --> 0:49:38.479 for garbage. So right now I see on a full tilt, 0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:42.359 which is an old rightly um from the eighties, right 0:49:42.400 --> 0:49:45.520 it literally is the mold from the eighties, and um 0:49:45.640 --> 0:49:48.080 that that boot was the best boot on the world then, 0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:50.080 and the only knock against it was it didn't turn 0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:52.879 skis that well, and that was because the skis had 0:49:52.880 --> 0:49:55.279 no side cut didn't turn very well. So now I 0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:58.520 think that's by far the best boot on the planet. 0:49:58.680 --> 0:50:01.080 So that's why I use. But I am trying to 0:50:01.200 --> 0:50:03.680 push somebody to evolve the boot process because I think 0:50:03.680 --> 0:50:07.919 there's a huge, huge capability for improvement there. Okay, specifically, 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:13.680 what makes the full tilt boot better flexes straightforward, so 0:50:13.840 --> 0:50:18.080 you you flex linear u versus flexing out. So if 0:50:18.120 --> 0:50:20.239 you were to bolt your typical ski boots to the 0:50:20.239 --> 0:50:23.040 ground with a base down to flex forward, your knees 0:50:23.080 --> 0:50:26.640 have to travel out, usually ten degrees, thirteen degrees whatever, 0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:29.160 but they travel out, so if you're forward on the 0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:31.359 front of your boot, you're actually increasing the edge angle. 0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:33.759 And then when you with your knee moving in a 0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:37.640 linear motion straight backwards, the edge decreases an angle. Even 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:40.040 though you're not decreasing your edge angle with your knees, 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:42.800 the skis decreasing because you're coming back to a neutral spot. 0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:45.200 That to me, is a terrible design. It worked well 0:50:45.200 --> 0:50:47.280 when the skis had no sidecut because as you drove 0:50:47.320 --> 0:50:50.319 forward you could the ski would tip way up and 0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:52.439 it would cause the front to kind of turn when 0:50:52.480 --> 0:50:55.560 no sidecut, But now it just creates an overly aggressive 0:50:55.600 --> 0:50:58.000 ski that causes all kinds of problems and knee injuries 0:50:58.000 --> 0:51:00.160 and stuff. So that's one piece of it. They have 0:51:00.200 --> 0:51:02.640 the interchangeability. I can switch my tongue out and go 0:51:02.760 --> 0:51:05.840 from a six flex tongue to attend to a fourteen, 0:51:05.880 --> 0:51:08.799 and I have this your thing tongue that they made me. Um, 0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:10.920 they would be like the equivalent of like like a 0:51:11.000 --> 0:51:13.600 sixteen or seventeen or eighteen. But um, you can change 0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:15.360 the back the cuff the same thing. You can just 0:51:15.360 --> 0:51:16.880 pop it off and put on a different one, and 0:51:17.400 --> 0:51:20.640 um dramatically change the characteristics of the boots. So and 0:51:20.680 --> 0:51:22.840 you slide it on like a slipper and no snow 0:51:22.880 --> 0:51:25.840 gets in there. It's just it's just better. Okay, you 0:51:26.000 --> 0:51:29.120 famously tweaked your boots on the door remains you were 0:51:29.239 --> 0:51:32.080 added forward lean, So when it comes to forward lean 0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:36.440 and ramp aangle, what were your thoughts. It's all it's 0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:38.640 a system. It only matters about the system. If you're 0:51:38.640 --> 0:51:41.600 skiing a ski that you can trust the front half 0:51:41.640 --> 0:51:44.040 of the ski, and you needed certain things, you could 0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:47.399 ramp up, But generally I was going the other way. 0:51:47.440 --> 0:51:49.320 If I ramped up in the boot, I would de 0:51:49.520 --> 0:51:51.480 ramp on the ski, So I would put lifters under 0:51:51.520 --> 0:51:53.000 the toe piece of the binding. So even though I 0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:55.440 had more ankle flexion, in the boot. That was just 0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:57.719 to get the boot to line up correctly so that 0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:00.000 I could so I could drive down with my knee 0:52:00.000 --> 0:52:03.040 instead of tipping forward with my knee. So I always 0:52:03.080 --> 0:52:05.200 like to drive down into the ski with my knee 0:52:05.320 --> 0:52:07.520 versus so I needed ankle flection. If the boot was 0:52:07.560 --> 0:52:10.279 too open, too upright, the angle was too open, then 0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:12.759 you you were stuck. So I would always get that 0:52:12.800 --> 0:52:14.439 to a place I liked, and then I would bring 0:52:14.480 --> 0:52:17.840 the toe up to get me balanced on the ski. Definitely. 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:20.360 One of the common mistakes is too much ramp angle 0:52:20.480 --> 0:52:23.960 and too much forward lean and too much delta between 0:52:24.000 --> 0:52:26.200 the front and back of the bindings. Typical bindings are 0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:28.480 you know, five millimeters lower in the front and the 0:52:28.520 --> 0:52:32.040 back um, and that's when you compound that by ramp 0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:34.520 angle inside the boot where the front is you know, 0:52:34.760 --> 0:52:37.960 sometimes thirteen fourteen millimeters difference between the height of the 0:52:37.960 --> 0:52:39.839 heel and the height of the toe. It's just this 0:52:39.880 --> 0:52:42.920 whole big ramp and it makes it impossible for people 0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:45.160 to ski forward because they're so tipped forward that if 0:52:45.160 --> 0:52:46.960 they actually pushed forward, they would just fall over the 0:52:47.000 --> 0:52:50.719 front of the skis. So um, I did everything, but 0:52:51.640 --> 0:52:53.560 I would say, I ended up in a really good 0:52:53.560 --> 0:52:57.680 place with fairly neutral to upright boots um with good 0:52:57.680 --> 0:53:00.960 ankle flection, and I was moving my foot around inside 0:53:00.960 --> 0:53:03.240 the boot quite a bit getting the right ankle position 0:53:03.320 --> 0:53:06.239 versus where the boot actually liked to bend um. But 0:53:06.560 --> 0:53:10.040 basically a flat ramp angle on the ski. Okay, that's 0:53:10.040 --> 0:53:12.239 been a big evolution. If you go to laying, which 0:53:12.239 --> 0:53:14.480 has been around since the fifties, hit it, say in 0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:17.800 the sixties with the old skis, the Stratos, the DTA 0:53:17.840 --> 0:53:20.520 meet VR seventies, they had a lot of ramp angle. 0:53:21.120 --> 0:53:24.719 Now they're really flat. Okay, So on some level you're 0:53:24.719 --> 0:53:28.080 saying that's followed you. How does that affect how you 0:53:28.160 --> 0:53:30.640 ski on shape skis In the old days, when it 0:53:30.719 --> 0:53:32.560 was so much harder to have a car of turn 0:53:32.840 --> 0:53:35.440 you had to get the weight forward, do you feel 0:53:35.480 --> 0:53:37.240 that that's less of an issue and it's more about 0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:40.200 being centered now? Yeah, of course. I mean, if you're 0:53:40.200 --> 0:53:42.439 going dead straight in a straight line on a shape 0:53:42.480 --> 0:53:45.239 ski and you don't have to push forward at all, 0:53:45.239 --> 0:53:48.920 you just tip over. That tip initiates so quickly with 0:53:48.960 --> 0:53:52.680 that sidecut and pulls in so quickly that automatically your 0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:54.759 inertia is going forward, and now the skis trying to 0:53:54.760 --> 0:53:57.839 turn that way you are forward. You can't avoid being 0:53:57.840 --> 0:53:59.600 for it. It's actually hard to not be for it 0:53:59.680 --> 0:54:02.839 on a a dramatic side cut ski. Um, you're exactly right. 0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:05.919 They were designed around and so is an orderkle grhand 0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:08.719 Prix was designed around skis with no side cut. They 0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:11.000 were much longer where you really had to you had 0:54:11.000 --> 0:54:13.200 to twist and snap that front to get it to 0:54:13.200 --> 0:54:16.600 do anything, and now you don't. Yeah, the ski does 0:54:16.640 --> 0:54:20.160 all that for you automatically, and so a more upright 0:54:20.160 --> 0:54:22.760 boot with much less ramp angle makes you more efficient. 0:54:22.800 --> 0:54:25.239 You your skeletally, you're more lined up, You're able to 0:54:25.280 --> 0:54:29.719 support more force and absorb more. Um. The challenges with kneflection. 0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:31.800 You don't have a lot of suspension in the ski 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:33.960 system right from the bottom of the ski to the 0:54:34.360 --> 0:54:36.680 all the way up. Your shin can't move that much, 0:54:36.719 --> 0:54:38.799 so a lot of your suspension is from your knee 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:41.359 of your hip, and that's a really slow moving, long 0:54:41.440 --> 0:54:45.879 travel suspender. Um. So I tend to still like some 0:54:45.960 --> 0:54:48.920 ankle flection for absorption purposes, but again that's where the 0:54:48.920 --> 0:54:50.759 full tilt is so much better than other boots is 0:54:50.800 --> 0:54:53.279 that you you can't fold it over the top. You know, 0:54:53.320 --> 0:54:56.120 I broke my ankle inside my boot twice because I 0:54:56.160 --> 0:54:58.719 would hyper flex the boot and it would just pull 0:54:58.800 --> 0:55:02.040 my ankle apart and snap off the bottom of my tibia. 0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:04.279 And it's you can't do that in the full tail 0:55:04.360 --> 0:55:07.160 because the instep is actually if your ankle joint is 0:55:07.200 --> 0:55:09.680 here a normal boot, the instep might be there. In 0:55:09.680 --> 0:55:12.080 the full tailed in step is like two inches away 0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:15.480 from the front ear, so you it doesn't cause any lever. 0:55:15.640 --> 0:55:17.680 You can't be pulled up out of the boot. You'll 0:55:17.719 --> 0:55:20.359 just crunch against it, and it actually drives your heel 0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:23.080 down and back no matter what you're doing. So it's 0:55:23.280 --> 0:55:26.200 you know, for me, it's safer to okay. Now you 0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:29.359 skied at the literally top level of the elite level. 0:55:29.400 --> 0:55:32.000 And before you made it to the top, were you 0:55:32.040 --> 0:55:34.799 ever intimidated by the competition? Now you had a long 0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:37.640 history of competition. I was not a good ski racer, 0:55:37.680 --> 0:55:39.840 but I ski with the World Cup freestyle people in 0:55:39.880 --> 0:55:42.359 the moguls all the time, could ski better than them. 0:55:42.360 --> 0:55:45.320 But once you're in competition, it's like this guy Scott 0:55:45.360 --> 0:55:48.759 Brooks Mack he got better in competition. Okay, so what 0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:54.560 was it like for you competing? Yeah, it was, there was, Um, 0:55:54.600 --> 0:55:56.719 there was certainly times where I was intimidated. I mean, 0:55:56.760 --> 0:56:00.120 there's a picture of Herman. It didn't happen early so 0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:01.920 much because I was always like, look, I'm gonna get better. 0:56:01.960 --> 0:56:03.680 I'm gonna get better. I'm gonna get better. There was 0:56:03.719 --> 0:56:07.600 a time where Herman was I think it was nine, Um, 0:56:07.680 --> 0:56:09.960 he was on his full doping program, and the guy's 0:56:10.000 --> 0:56:12.279 legs were just like he's on a table in a 0:56:12.360 --> 0:56:14.960 lab with with the electro stim hooked up to his 0:56:15.040 --> 0:56:17.880 legs and he's doing a full both quads, full flection, 0:56:18.320 --> 0:56:21.200 like rocked out, and there's like striation that he had 0:56:21.239 --> 0:56:23.680 muscles that I don't even know are on a normal 0:56:23.760 --> 0:56:26.280 human that were like stacked on top of normal muscles. 0:56:26.280 --> 0:56:28.399 And and I was just like, I mean, I put 0:56:28.440 --> 0:56:30.360 me in the tank for like eight months because I 0:56:30.400 --> 0:56:33.000 was like, this is garbage, Like there's no way, no matter. 0:56:33.160 --> 0:56:36.520 He's better technically than Miami's on better skis, he's doping, 0:56:36.960 --> 0:56:40.359 he's you know, better technically by a mile. Um, Like 0:56:40.440 --> 0:56:43.160 what am I talking about here? And and uh, eventually 0:56:43.200 --> 0:56:45.799 I overcame it but um, I was one of the 0:56:45.800 --> 0:56:49.520 people who because of my ability to take risk and 0:56:49.520 --> 0:56:52.239 and that was my strength, was my ability to sort 0:56:52.280 --> 0:56:54.680 of motivate myself to take risk and be willing to 0:56:54.680 --> 0:56:57.080 do that in competition and deal with the fact that 0:56:57.120 --> 0:56:58.439 I was going to fail a lot of the time. 0:56:58.880 --> 0:57:01.359 That was my biggest skill set and I recognized really 0:57:01.440 --> 0:57:04.440 quickly even Herman didn't have that, I had them in 0:57:04.480 --> 0:57:06.640 that category. That was my that was my trump card. 0:57:06.680 --> 0:57:09.759 And honestly I set up specific split times, which you know, 0:57:10.120 --> 0:57:11.600 not not that we have to touch on it, but 0:57:11.719 --> 0:57:14.319 ski oh is my app that I've created now that 0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:18.760 measures everything, measures exact speed, distance, travel, g forces, all 0:57:18.800 --> 0:57:22.160 that stuff. During that time of like late high school 0:57:22.200 --> 0:57:25.800 into early World Cup, I was setting up split times 0:57:26.560 --> 0:57:29.560 because I needed to know how fast am I. I 0:57:29.600 --> 0:57:33.840 needed some positive reinforcement. I couldn't finish races. I was like, 0:57:33.960 --> 0:57:36.760 I only care about how fast I am for these 0:57:36.760 --> 0:57:39.000 two gates. I need to know that I have like 0:57:39.160 --> 0:57:42.160 elite level speed for two gates, and I would see 0:57:42.200 --> 0:57:43.840 what I could do for two gates. In the middle, 0:57:43.840 --> 0:57:46.000 of course, I would set up a specific split time 0:57:46.360 --> 0:57:50.440 for six seconds, and and that really helped my confidence 0:57:50.440 --> 0:57:52.640 because I was like, look, I haven't figured it out yet. 0:57:52.720 --> 0:57:54.600 I certainly can't do it for fifty four gates in 0:57:54.640 --> 0:57:58.000 a row. But for those two gates, I am way 0:57:58.080 --> 0:58:01.480 faster than anybody in our country and possibly the world. 0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:03.960 And that was sort of the thing that got me 0:58:04.280 --> 0:58:07.440 over the deficiencies that I had in every other category 0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:08.880 because I was kind of the middle of the road 0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:16.400 type dude in fitness, technique, endurance, um. You know, equipment, 0:58:16.600 --> 0:58:21.200 you know, tactics, understanding of hills, snow conditions, inspection, everything. 0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:23.760 But in a couple of categories, I was elite level 0:58:23.800 --> 0:58:25.360 and I had to figure out how to ulize those 0:58:25.360 --> 0:58:28.920 and capitalize on them. Okay, to what degree was doping 0:58:28.920 --> 0:58:31.600 a factor? To what degree is it's still a factor? 0:58:31.600 --> 0:58:34.360 And you famously said you didn't care if anybody doped, 0:58:34.400 --> 0:58:37.840 you could still beat them. Yeah, I don't know that 0:58:37.920 --> 0:58:39.680 that's exactly what I said, but I think you covered 0:58:39.680 --> 0:58:42.280 the gist of it. Um, I you know it was 0:58:42.440 --> 0:58:44.240 It's always been a thing. I think it's been a 0:58:44.280 --> 0:58:47.280 thing in virtually every sport since the beginning of time. 0:58:47.320 --> 0:58:49.320 I mean, I think guys used to chew coca leaves 0:58:49.320 --> 0:58:50.800 back in the old days, when they had little foot 0:58:50.880 --> 0:58:54.600 race over in Greece. But um, I think that there's 0:58:55.160 --> 0:58:58.120 there's a misperception that doping does it for you, that 0:58:58.160 --> 0:59:00.440 you dope and then you're just better, and that's just 0:59:00.560 --> 0:59:02.600 not the case. The guys. The the big, the big 0:59:02.640 --> 0:59:04.320 advantage of doping as you can train more and you 0:59:04.360 --> 0:59:07.320 recover more quickly. So half the doping stuff isn't even 0:59:07.640 --> 0:59:10.720 enhancement things, it's recovery things. So if you can train. 0:59:10.800 --> 0:59:13.240 I mean, the cost Lish family, I love them, they're 0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:16.280 great people. They both had organ failure later on their 0:59:16.320 --> 0:59:19.880 careers because they were on these programs that allowed them 0:59:19.920 --> 0:59:22.120 to ski twice or three times as much as every 0:59:22.160 --> 0:59:25.840 other World Cup racer. And they got really really good 0:59:26.040 --> 0:59:28.640 because they trained three times as much as any other 0:59:28.640 --> 0:59:31.400 World Cup racer, but it also caused organ failure. And 0:59:31.440 --> 0:59:34.640 for me, I was kind of the mindset of like, look, 0:59:34.720 --> 0:59:37.080 this isn't Tour de France, Tour de France. If you're 0:59:37.080 --> 0:59:39.400 not doping, I don't think you have a realistic chance 0:59:39.440 --> 0:59:42.600 of winning. You know, um, you know football, if you're 0:59:42.760 --> 0:59:45.840 not doping, you know American football, you're likely to get 0:59:45.840 --> 0:59:48.520 beat up throughout the season and not recover as well. 0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:50.280 And you're gonna get thrown around by guys who are 0:59:50.480 --> 0:59:53.200 that's but in ski racing because it's a minute or 0:59:53.360 --> 0:59:56.800 because it's two minutes. I felt like if I was 0:59:56.840 --> 0:59:58.360 willing to take the risk and great, I had to 0:59:58.400 --> 1:00:01.080 adjust my criteria, I would have loved it w of 1:00:01.080 --> 1:00:02.640 the races I was in, but that just wasn't in 1:00:02.640 --> 1:00:04.280 the cards for me. I was like, I can get 1:00:04.320 --> 1:00:07.080 through a minute, and it's more going to be about 1:00:07.120 --> 1:00:09.120 my intensity and my risk taking and how I can 1:00:09.200 --> 1:00:12.440 manage that. I'm I'm capable of beating even guys who 1:00:12.440 --> 1:00:14.480 are I'd always dealt with it. Guys who are much 1:00:14.560 --> 1:00:17.360 fitter than I was, much more technically sound, better equipment, 1:00:17.440 --> 1:00:19.400 and I beat them before, so I didn't really see 1:00:19.440 --> 1:00:23.160 that as a massive problem. I just felt like I 1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:25.960 wasn't gonna win the overall very many times because guys 1:00:25.960 --> 1:00:28.320 who were on that recovery program were just more fresh 1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:38.280 all the time, and I was not. Okay, so you've retired, 1:00:39.480 --> 1:00:42.040 then you wanted to come out of retirement using the 1:00:42.080 --> 1:00:48.240 full tilt boots, using Bomber. Skis Head said, no, Ultimately, 1:00:48.240 --> 1:00:50.800 you had a relationship with Bomber. Now I have a 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:55.840 relationship with cross and take us through that evolution. Yeah, 1:00:55.920 --> 1:00:57.880 when I quit, I was I was well, well, good 1:00:57.880 --> 1:01:00.800 and done, um, but I still had things a bit 1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:03.200 like Rocky and Rocky six right. There was I wouldn't 1:01:03.200 --> 1:01:05.360 say there was skeletons in the closet, but there was 1:01:05.480 --> 1:01:08.280 things in the basement that I wanted to do and 1:01:08.360 --> 1:01:11.760 you can't do them on your local ski hill. You 1:01:12.160 --> 1:01:15.800 needed a World Cup forum and with the conditions and 1:01:15.880 --> 1:01:19.160 the level of safety to actually put them to the test. 1:01:19.240 --> 1:01:21.840 And it was more honestly, it wasn't about winning races. 1:01:21.880 --> 1:01:24.800 It wasn't about proving anything. It was simply about understanding 1:01:24.840 --> 1:01:27.680 what was possible with equipment and things like that. And 1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:30.560 it was the first time I've had the handcuffs off 1:01:30.600 --> 1:01:33.280 in eight years, um out from under head. And I 1:01:33.400 --> 1:01:35.200 retired with the intent of not doing that. But then 1:01:35.200 --> 1:01:36.880 I got on the skis. I skied on him for 1:01:36.920 --> 1:01:40.280 this project for Samsung up in Lake Louise and my 1:01:40.280 --> 1:01:42.560 my good friend Craig Daniels, who had been with me, 1:01:42.600 --> 1:01:45.960 and we had some technology like Skio on the skis 1:01:46.000 --> 1:01:48.440 that were measuring things. He was following me with a 1:01:48.560 --> 1:01:50.640 with a big follow cam trying to get this footage 1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:52.920 for them, and and he after about the fifth run, 1:01:53.000 --> 1:01:54.640 he said, dude, I've never seen you ski like this. 1:01:55.320 --> 1:01:57.720 He's like, if you raised a World Cup right now, 1:01:58.400 --> 1:02:00.760 you would destroy people. I was like, I was like, 1:02:00.800 --> 1:02:02.640 I know, I feel the same way. It's I'm able 1:02:02.680 --> 1:02:06.240 to move because the boots flexed straightforward instead of out, 1:02:06.600 --> 1:02:09.080 and because the skis were designed with much less sidecut 1:02:09.120 --> 1:02:11.400 but a slight hinge point in the middle, I was 1:02:11.440 --> 1:02:14.640 able to hold almost tuck down the steep pitch and 1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:16.560 in like Louise where c turn would normally be in 1:02:16.600 --> 1:02:18.920 a super G And he's like, I've never seen anything 1:02:18.960 --> 1:02:21.320 like this, and that that got me excited because I 1:02:21.360 --> 1:02:24.040 felt like my at that point it was really about 1:02:24.120 --> 1:02:26.160 legacy and what I was giving back to the sport. 1:02:26.240 --> 1:02:28.160 And I felt like if I understood that, and I 1:02:28.160 --> 1:02:31.000 could evolve equipment and ski boots to be able to 1:02:31.040 --> 1:02:34.240 allow your average person to have that same confidence level 1:02:34.280 --> 1:02:37.000 and improvement, um, I'd be doing something good for the sport. 1:02:37.040 --> 1:02:38.360 And it was a bummer that they shut me down 1:02:38.360 --> 1:02:39.520 because I think in the end it would have been 1:02:39.520 --> 1:02:42.280 great for head as well. Um, but it is what 1:02:42.320 --> 1:02:44.400 it is, Okay. That must have been very frustrating. There 1:02:44.440 --> 1:02:49.120 was no way to work that out. Johan Johan is 1:02:49.120 --> 1:02:52.479 a peculiar cat. Uh. I love him, he's a good friend. 1:02:52.480 --> 1:02:57.120 We're friends now still. Um. But that was a very 1:02:57.160 --> 1:03:02.000 American business um litigation. I mean, he had he sent 1:03:02.040 --> 1:03:05.080 me a seven hundred page he moved forums three times, 1:03:05.600 --> 1:03:09.160 tied us up and send a seven hundred pages because 1:03:09.160 --> 1:03:11.600 I wanted mine was one page that I sent him. 1:03:11.640 --> 1:03:15.680 It was here's what I'm requesting, here's what we said before. Uh, 1:03:15.720 --> 1:03:18.120 you're not paying me anything anyway. It's illegal for you 1:03:18.160 --> 1:03:20.400 to block me from making a living in my in 1:03:20.480 --> 1:03:25.000 my profession without pay, without compensation. That that's illegal in Colorado, California, 1:03:25.200 --> 1:03:28.600 anywhere in the US. Basically, Uh, he moved for hum 1:03:28.640 --> 1:03:30.400 three times to jump that around. All he was trying 1:03:30.400 --> 1:03:32.160 to do is tie us up until the season started 1:03:32.160 --> 1:03:34.880 so I couldn't do it. And UM, you know, I 1:03:34.920 --> 1:03:37.000 can respect somebody who's efficient at what they want to do, 1:03:37.040 --> 1:03:39.400 and he was, so I can respect that. But in 1:03:39.440 --> 1:03:42.760 the end, I think we all lost out. Okay, bomb Or, 1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:45.560 after you got involved, turned into more of an expensive 1:03:45.560 --> 1:03:48.760 boutique SKI. Ultimately you left and went to cross on. 1:03:49.600 --> 1:03:53.280 Tell us about that. Yeah, I think you know, coming 1:03:53.320 --> 1:03:55.800 from where I was at that moment where there was 1:03:55.840 --> 1:03:59.280 still potential to race, there was still this development. Then 1:03:59.360 --> 1:04:02.600 as that game unrealistic with Johan kind of putting his 1:04:02.600 --> 1:04:05.919 foot down on me, Um, we moved into that other 1:04:06.000 --> 1:04:08.160 space and it was not where I wanted to be. 1:04:08.280 --> 1:04:11.480 So UM, I had a contract, I wrote it out. 1:04:11.560 --> 1:04:14.040 I did my best for them, UM, wish them all 1:04:14.040 --> 1:04:16.360 the best, but wanted to go with a ski company 1:04:16.360 --> 1:04:18.800 where I could see my vision really come true. And 1:04:19.120 --> 1:04:22.400 quite honestly, I don't care about building skis for super 1:04:22.480 --> 1:04:25.520 rich people or I think skiings expensive enough as it is. 1:04:25.600 --> 1:04:27.800 I went through it as a young person. I would 1:04:27.880 --> 1:04:30.400 love to build skis and make them good enough that 1:04:30.440 --> 1:04:33.360 I could sell a million pairs of skis a year 1:04:33.880 --> 1:04:36.800 for two hundred dollars a pair, and build them for 1:04:36.880 --> 1:04:39.520 eighty dollars a pair and sell them all direct and 1:04:39.560 --> 1:04:42.400 make twenty dollars a pair, and I make a bunch 1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:44.880 of money. Um. You know. And even then, if I 1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:46.840 did that, I'd probably dropped the price to one fifty, 1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:50.160 because I think it's obnoxious that skiings as expensive as 1:04:50.160 --> 1:04:53.200 it is and as inaccessible as it is, UM, and 1:04:53.360 --> 1:04:55.600 I would love to see that change that, so they 1:04:55.640 --> 1:04:58.120 were kind of going the opposite direction with Crossing. At 1:04:58.160 --> 1:05:00.800 least we have the you know, full raine and really 1:05:00.840 --> 1:05:04.680 interesting background coming Chase coming from aerospace, and access to 1:05:04.760 --> 1:05:09.280 crazy smart engineers and unique performance materials and practices coming 1:05:09.320 --> 1:05:13.760 from an industry that's very unlike skiing. UM, and and 1:05:13.840 --> 1:05:16.000 we are trying to do some really unique stuff in 1:05:16.000 --> 1:05:18.320 this first year. I mean we start in June and 1:05:18.360 --> 1:05:21.800 we have two different models, three really that are absolutely 1:05:21.800 --> 1:05:25.520 exceptional at the top of their individual classes in the sport. 1:05:25.600 --> 1:05:28.160 And I'm looking forward to next year. Okay, but is 1:05:28.160 --> 1:05:30.680 your goal with Crossing to bring the price down and 1:05:31.000 --> 1:05:35.480 turn volume way up? Yeah? Eventually, UM, you know, I 1:05:35.480 --> 1:05:37.520 think it'll be some re engineering. I think there will be. 1:05:37.720 --> 1:05:40.720 There's a few steps, intermediary steps that have to be 1:05:40.720 --> 1:05:43.360 seen to first UM and obviously we have to be 1:05:43.400 --> 1:05:46.560 economically viable to get there as well. So my long 1:05:46.680 --> 1:05:49.560 term goal is yes, is that, um you need a 1:05:49.560 --> 1:05:53.160 certain economic model to to make it work. But I 1:05:53.200 --> 1:05:55.440 think we're pointing in the right direction absolutely, and ideally 1:05:55.480 --> 1:05:58.080 I'd love to build race keys. Again. I think it's 1:05:58.120 --> 1:06:00.800 it's embarrassing that we don't have any American aid race skis, 1:06:01.280 --> 1:06:04.200 and uh, every other country as you alluded to before 1:06:04.240 --> 1:06:09.480 with you know, Atomic Rozzi, you know every company. Maybe 1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:12.280 Italy is the only comping that doesn't really have a 1:06:12.320 --> 1:06:15.520 homegrown superpower race ski. But um, I want to build 1:06:15.560 --> 1:06:17.560 American made race skis and really kind of give the 1:06:17.600 --> 1:06:20.640 Americans advantage for once. Let's talk about the crossing skis 1:06:20.640 --> 1:06:23.040 that are available. Now, did you have a hand in 1:06:23.120 --> 1:06:28.320 developing those? I did everything from exact side cut, earlier rise, 1:06:28.440 --> 1:06:32.280 exact construction everything. Okay, so what makes them special and 1:06:32.360 --> 1:06:37.000 different from what's presently on the market. Um, we'll focus 1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:38.520 on the one A team because that's the one that 1:06:38.600 --> 1:06:42.320 I did a good job on and got lucky as well. 1:06:42.400 --> 1:06:44.880 And I it's a twenty seven meter radius, so if 1:06:44.920 --> 1:06:47.120 you know anything about radius, that's a very long radius. 1:06:47.120 --> 1:06:51.560 That's a fist legal giant slalom radius ski basically, um 1:06:51.640 --> 1:06:55.080 and it's and so with that long radius, you're not 1:06:55.080 --> 1:06:57.800 going to get the same turn that you would on 1:06:57.920 --> 1:07:00.000 an arc. But it's a one A team underfoot, which 1:07:00.200 --> 1:07:01.720 you wouldn't get that turn even if you made the 1:07:01.720 --> 1:07:04.480 shovel huge because there's so much torsional for so, I 1:07:04.600 --> 1:07:07.360 matched the point where there's traditional camera where the skis 1:07:07.440 --> 1:07:09.959 this way to the point where there's early rise, which 1:07:10.000 --> 1:07:12.640 is really really subtle. When you stick the skis together 1:07:12.680 --> 1:07:15.440 and you push the base together, there's a tiny little 1:07:15.480 --> 1:07:18.480 slot of light that comes in between them earlier, and 1:07:18.480 --> 1:07:21.240 that's the radius that you use there, and where that 1:07:21.520 --> 1:07:24.120 is compared to the sidecut, how the ski is still 1:07:24.160 --> 1:07:27.200 getting wider, and then where that peeks out, and then 1:07:27.240 --> 1:07:29.280 how you use the actual tip curve, which is how 1:07:29.280 --> 1:07:31.840 the ski comes up off the snow. That's actually what 1:07:31.880 --> 1:07:35.000 you use to dictate your radius, is that that early 1:07:35.120 --> 1:07:38.040 rise in the tip curve. So I'm cheating the system 1:07:38.040 --> 1:07:41.160 where I have a radius ski that you can ski 1:07:41.240 --> 1:07:43.800 seventy miles an hour on it and it doesn't jump around. 1:07:43.800 --> 1:07:46.080 It's not crazy. You can make little slow turns that 1:07:46.160 --> 1:07:49.640 aren't arcs, they're just slid. But it's super consistent and 1:07:49.680 --> 1:07:53.040 reliable and easy to balance on and forgiving works awesome 1:07:53.040 --> 1:07:56.520 and deep powder sloft chunky snow because it just doesn't 1:07:56.560 --> 1:07:58.160 hook you on the tail. You never get stuck in 1:07:58.200 --> 1:08:00.880 the back seat, you never get pitched forward. But then 1:08:01.000 --> 1:08:04.280 still skis like a seventeen sixteen radio ski. When you 1:08:04.280 --> 1:08:07.240 tip it up because the actual initiation is coming from 1:08:07.280 --> 1:08:10.080 the curve of the ski versus the side cut, so 1:08:10.600 --> 1:08:14.520 it's it's nuanced and it's uh. I built it very traditionally, 1:08:14.680 --> 1:08:16.800 you know, nothing magical in it, which again allows me 1:08:16.840 --> 1:08:21.280 to reduce the cost down. Um. And yeah, I got lucky. 1:08:21.280 --> 1:08:22.840 I knew it would be a very good powder ski. 1:08:23.320 --> 1:08:25.960 I was confident there. What I was shocked at is 1:08:26.000 --> 1:08:29.280 how good it was on hard snow, on ice and 1:08:29.320 --> 1:08:31.840 on groom trails. And the reason that it was much 1:08:31.880 --> 1:08:33.759 better than I thought was because I had never skied 1:08:33.800 --> 1:08:36.559 on a ski that was at that shallow of radius. 1:08:36.560 --> 1:08:39.800 So you know, the most you see is two three 1:08:40.400 --> 1:08:42.439 and even that is usually on a really stiff ski 1:08:42.880 --> 1:08:46.160 that's just for like high speed bombing and powder runs, 1:08:46.200 --> 1:08:48.960 you know, huge lines in Alaska and stuff like that. Um, 1:08:49.120 --> 1:08:51.960 this thing is a normal construction, fairly soft, but when 1:08:52.000 --> 1:08:55.080 you ski it on hard snow, it just absolutely rips turns. 1:08:55.120 --> 1:08:57.200 I was my hip was on the ground for six 1:08:57.280 --> 1:08:59.360 g s turns in a row down a groom or 1:08:59.439 --> 1:09:01.200 first thing in this season, and I came out of 1:09:01.200 --> 1:09:04.160 that and I was like, it exceeded at every expectation 1:09:04.200 --> 1:09:05.920 I had on the harder still which my goal is 1:09:05.920 --> 1:09:08.360 always to build a ski that works on a big variety. 1:09:08.600 --> 1:09:10.600 There's lots of companies that build really good skis for 1:09:10.720 --> 1:09:14.559 one specific condition or type of skier. I want something 1:09:14.560 --> 1:09:17.360 that works for everybody, and I got really lucky this year. Okay, 1:09:17.479 --> 1:09:20.439 conventional wisdom and needs to say you're not conventional. Is 1:09:20.479 --> 1:09:22.400 a hundred and eight team would be a powder ski, 1:09:22.479 --> 1:09:25.080 not a big mountain Alaska powder ski. And maybe you 1:09:25.120 --> 1:09:26.679 have a hundred and five or a hundred and six 1:09:26.680 --> 1:09:31.200 for cried your daily riders, hundred maybe for hard snow. 1:09:31.320 --> 1:09:34.760 You have something somewhere in the eighties. Hey, do you 1:09:34.800 --> 1:09:39.720 agree with that philosophy or is that horseship? Um? I 1:09:40.000 --> 1:09:43.320 would say it's certainly not horseship, right. And the reason 1:09:43.439 --> 1:09:46.240 for that is just as I just stated right before 1:09:46.280 --> 1:09:48.840 that it was a lot of companies make skis that 1:09:48.880 --> 1:09:52.160 are good in one narrow segment. So if you love 1:09:52.400 --> 1:09:56.360 Stokely or you love Blizard or you love Atomic, you 1:09:56.400 --> 1:09:58.679 need five pairs of skis and you need the quiver 1:09:58.800 --> 1:10:00.800 you just said. I would even go narrowing that. I 1:10:00.800 --> 1:10:02.960 would go down to something the seventies for a hard ice. 1:10:02.960 --> 1:10:04.400 If you're an East Coast ski and you're going up 1:10:04.439 --> 1:10:07.400 to Cannon or or Stow, you're gonna want something narrower 1:10:07.439 --> 1:10:10.000 the eighties. But but then everything else you said is 1:10:10.120 --> 1:10:12.479 virtually right, and you're gonna have a great time if 1:10:12.520 --> 1:10:14.599 you can bring five or six pairs of skis and 1:10:14.800 --> 1:10:17.800 switch from morning to mid lunch to afternoon. If you 1:10:17.840 --> 1:10:19.880 had a powder day in the morning, and what I 1:10:20.240 --> 1:10:22.760 believe that if you do it right you can have 1:10:23.479 --> 1:10:26.800 virtually you still kind of need two pairs. Um. I 1:10:26.960 --> 1:10:29.479 skied on pretty firm snow. It didn't snow for about 1:10:29.479 --> 1:10:31.880 three weeks. There was smicy patches that got scratched down. 1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:34.519 I didn't I wouldn't say I enjoyed skiing on the 1:10:34.520 --> 1:10:37.320 one eight teens. If I was skiing in sugar Loaf 1:10:37.600 --> 1:10:39.640 when it hadn't snowed in two weeks, and you know 1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:42.439 that refrozen groom stuff where you barely leave a track 1:10:42.439 --> 1:10:44.719 in it when you're working right, the one teens probably 1:10:44.720 --> 1:10:47.160 wouldn't have been a really enjoyable ski there. I would 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:50.880 have dropped right down to a one seventies six underfoot 1:10:50.920 --> 1:10:53.439 I mean a seventy six underfoot um, but a much 1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:56.920 more mela radius than than a typical carving ski. And 1:10:57.040 --> 1:11:02.360 but beyond that that one een it covers from Big Mountain, Alaska. 1:11:02.600 --> 1:11:05.519 I mean, like shoots, it's a touring ski. It's super light. 1:11:05.600 --> 1:11:07.679 It's it's as light as some of the high level 1:11:07.720 --> 1:11:11.000 touring skis. Um you can ski it fast. He's getting 1:11:11.000 --> 1:11:13.360 crud junk. I have some videos of my buddy that 1:11:13.400 --> 1:11:16.519 I mentioned before, just going crazy on the thing. And 1:11:16.520 --> 1:11:18.840 he's all of a d thirty five pounds, soaking wet, 1:11:18.880 --> 1:11:23.719 and he's one underfoot and he's shredding these hard wind baked, 1:11:23.760 --> 1:11:27.479 sun baked moguls um bouncing and shooting around and just landing. 1:11:27.479 --> 1:11:29.519 And they're always right where they belong. They're always right, 1:11:29.560 --> 1:11:31.960 you know, grips right under his foot. He's totally on it. 1:11:32.520 --> 1:11:35.800 And that that ski covers out here, it covers every day. 1:11:36.000 --> 1:11:38.800 There's no other ski that I would ski on out here. Um, 1:11:38.840 --> 1:11:40.719 you know, on the East coast, you'd want something narrower. 1:11:40.760 --> 1:11:42.759 But I'd ideally like to get it down to two 1:11:42.920 --> 1:11:46.040 two pairs. Okay, there's a whole school of thought now. 1:11:46.160 --> 1:11:50.360 Really the business was changed by the Razzie one oh six, 1:11:50.439 --> 1:11:53.479 the Yellow Soul seven, And there are people who have 1:11:53.520 --> 1:11:55.720 been in the business a long time say this is 1:11:55.760 --> 1:11:59.439 not good for your knees to have wide skis. Do 1:11:59.479 --> 1:12:03.880 you have a lot on them? Yeah, it sounds like 1:12:03.880 --> 1:12:06.160 live s tales stuff to me. I've heard a lot 1:12:06.280 --> 1:12:09.360 of people saying that, you know, we had FIST regulations, 1:12:09.400 --> 1:12:11.559 right we scrapped When I was on head, they made 1:12:11.560 --> 1:12:15.080 the skis now out of University of Salzburg, which is 1:12:16.000 --> 1:12:19.920 Austrian government controlled, and had we were kicking the crap 1:12:19.960 --> 1:12:22.599 out of Atomic, So of course the University of Salzburg 1:12:22.680 --> 1:12:24.880 came up with some data that said if you make 1:12:24.920 --> 1:12:28.960 the skis two millimeters wider, everyone's gonna be way more safe. 1:12:29.360 --> 1:12:31.880 So we all had to scrap thousands of pairs of 1:12:31.920 --> 1:12:35.200 the fastest down will skis on the planet because they 1:12:35.240 --> 1:12:38.000 came up with some arbitrary data. And then two years 1:12:38.080 --> 1:12:39.840 later the injuries were worse and they said, up, we 1:12:39.840 --> 1:12:42.400 were wrong, and but you couldn't add edge with to 1:12:42.439 --> 1:12:44.519 make your skis wider. So we scrapped all those keys 1:12:44.560 --> 1:12:46.559 and started new and that helped Atomic because we're all 1:12:46.600 --> 1:12:48.519 back on level playing field. And then two years later 1:12:48.520 --> 1:12:51.320 they realized their data was garbage and they scrapped it. 1:12:51.360 --> 1:12:54.960 So it's I think that's where that comes from I 1:12:55.080 --> 1:12:57.800 would say that a wide ski with a lot of 1:12:57.840 --> 1:13:01.320 sidecut because your shovel it becomes so big that it 1:13:01.400 --> 1:13:04.040 actually can hit and it has a huge surface area 1:13:04.040 --> 1:13:06.000 that if you hit a bump, or you hit loose 1:13:06.040 --> 1:13:09.439 snow or a pile of slough, um, you're gonna you're 1:13:09.439 --> 1:13:12.160 gonna get a huge reaction if it's not designed just 1:13:12.320 --> 1:13:16.400 right um. And that huge reaction oftentimes goes to your 1:13:16.439 --> 1:13:20.280 knees and you're back. And so I would say a 1:13:20.360 --> 1:13:22.600 wide ski should have very little side cut, and you 1:13:22.640 --> 1:13:24.280 have to figure out a better way to make it turn. 1:13:24.360 --> 1:13:25.640 If you do that, I don't think it has any 1:13:25.680 --> 1:13:28.519 impact on safety. Okay, let's talk about materials. The big 1:13:28.560 --> 1:13:31.640 breakthrough was metal in the fifties and sixties. Then we 1:13:31.680 --> 1:13:34.400 went to fiberglass. Okay, we had the strato of the 1:13:34.479 --> 1:13:37.280 VR seventeen, but then we had Rozzie the Rock five 1:13:37.360 --> 1:13:42.080 fifty for gs that was metal. Then Solomon entered the business. 1:13:42.160 --> 1:13:45.719 They had a cap ski. So the traditional thought now 1:13:45.880 --> 1:13:51.160 is you want metal for harder surfaces, for torsional rigidity. 1:13:51.240 --> 1:13:54.040 And then you talk about one eight teens. Conventually they 1:13:54.040 --> 1:13:57.160 will have no metal in them. What's your philosophy on 1:13:57.280 --> 1:14:01.559 materials and construction. Well, metal is not great for torsion 1:14:01.800 --> 1:14:04.599 in the sense of the properties itself. What it's good 1:14:04.640 --> 1:14:07.719 for is torsion and traditional layup is comes from shearing 1:14:07.720 --> 1:14:10.120 effect of the of the material. So if you have 1:14:10.160 --> 1:14:13.000 a bunch of layers, those layers when they twist, they 1:14:13.040 --> 1:14:15.920 have to rub against each other. They don't just twist, 1:14:16.200 --> 1:14:18.920 uh you know, as one big chunk, they actually shear. 1:14:19.280 --> 1:14:21.360 And that's where you get your metal doesn't it has 1:14:21.400 --> 1:14:25.560 a hard bonding property. The surface has no other particles 1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:27.800 that it creates a really solid bonds of Tortionally, it 1:14:27.840 --> 1:14:30.799 affects it that way. But the property itself, metal twists 1:14:30.840 --> 1:14:34.719 actually much easier than glued fiberglass. Fiberglass is the strongest 1:14:34.760 --> 1:14:38.559 for torstional uh control. Um. The reason we don't use 1:14:38.560 --> 1:14:41.760 metal traditionally, and you know wider skis is just weight. 1:14:41.880 --> 1:14:44.160 You know, it's just too it's just too damn much material. 1:14:44.200 --> 1:14:46.639 You'd use a piece of metal this wide and uh, 1:14:46.680 --> 1:14:48.920 you know, it's it's too much. But the other part, 1:14:49.000 --> 1:14:51.719 metals really damp and would metal together have a really 1:14:51.760 --> 1:14:56.439 interesting frequency um dampening properties. So you know, we we 1:14:56.439 --> 1:14:59.559 always use you know goodwood cores in our wide skis, 1:14:59.760 --> 1:15:03.439 but we're using rubber instead of metal and fiberglass instead 1:15:03.479 --> 1:15:06.080 of metal. So fiberglass to control the tortion because as 1:15:06.080 --> 1:15:10.240 it gets wider, you can really control torson very effectively. Um, 1:15:10.520 --> 1:15:12.400 you don't add all that weight. And then he use 1:15:12.520 --> 1:15:16.320 rubber inserts around the edges in certain areas to to 1:15:16.479 --> 1:15:20.360 dampen the vibration and have a damp ski. And Um again, 1:15:20.640 --> 1:15:22.920 I'm a believer that there's no one way to build 1:15:22.920 --> 1:15:25.559 a great ski. Um. Like I said, I'm the first 1:15:25.560 --> 1:15:28.280 to give credit to companies that have built great skis, 1:15:28.280 --> 1:15:30.120 and there's a lot of different ways to go about it. 1:15:30.560 --> 1:15:32.520 I want to do it in a way that's super consistent, 1:15:32.560 --> 1:15:36.480 gives people a huge range of of you know, conditions 1:15:36.479 --> 1:15:39.479 that the skis perform optimally on. And a ski that 1:15:39.600 --> 1:15:41.280 one eighteen I put a dude on it the other day. 1:15:41.320 --> 1:15:43.639 He's never skied before, his first day on snow. He's 1:15:43.640 --> 1:15:47.519 one underfoot and had an awesome time. They switched into 1:15:47.560 --> 1:15:50.439 a black crow at lunch because he was curious, and 1:15:50.439 --> 1:15:52.479 he went immediately back to the team. He said that 1:15:52.520 --> 1:15:54.960 thing was garbage compared to this. It's so much easier 1:15:54.960 --> 1:15:57.559 to balance on this and control of the edges. So 1:15:58.000 --> 1:16:01.840 I think that done correctly, the sky is gonna work 1:16:01.960 --> 1:16:05.559 better in all conditions and for all skiers. And maybe 1:16:05.600 --> 1:16:07.760 that's optimistic, but it seems like it's working right now. 1:16:08.080 --> 1:16:10.320 Let's just talk about course. Course, we're all would the 1:16:10.320 --> 1:16:12.880 breakthrough in the seventies was foam, then we went back 1:16:12.920 --> 1:16:16.679 to wood. Dina starts putting some foam stringers in what's 1:16:16.720 --> 1:16:21.200 your philosophy there? Yeah, I think I think hybrid um. Honestly, 1:16:21.240 --> 1:16:24.120 I think that's the application for carbon fiber and potentially 1:16:24.200 --> 1:16:27.840 other exotic materials as well as stringers vertical stringers of 1:16:27.880 --> 1:16:31.479 carbon fiber. Uh, think of like an H box of wood. 1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:35.080 So an H of really thin but super dense wood, oak, 1:16:35.240 --> 1:16:40.800 beach poplar, you know, maple, um, ironwood, There's all kinds 1:16:40.840 --> 1:16:43.360 of wood that would be really interesting but super duper 1:16:43.400 --> 1:16:45.639 thin in an H. So you have an I beam 1:16:45.720 --> 1:16:48.400 type structure which adds a lot of the properties. Then 1:16:48.400 --> 1:16:50.680 fill the top and bottom of the H with foam 1:16:50.760 --> 1:16:54.800 with carbon stringers um. Ultimately, I've tried to have that 1:16:54.960 --> 1:16:58.919 core built for six years. Hasn't happened yet. I'm patients, 1:16:58.960 --> 1:17:01.920 so hopefully through. I believe that a hybrid core will 1:17:02.080 --> 1:17:04.280 will be where we end up. Okay, but we'll foam 1:17:04.320 --> 1:17:06.439 break down like it did in the seventies or just 1:17:06.479 --> 1:17:10.120 not really a structural material. No, it's it's not. In 1:17:10.240 --> 1:17:12.360 seventies there was they had bad foam. I mean now 1:17:12.360 --> 1:17:14.920 they have aerospace foam that does you can have do 1:17:14.960 --> 1:17:18.960 anything as zero temperature fluctuations. It's that can't shatter. It 1:17:19.000 --> 1:17:20.960 has like a fifty thousand and a half life and 1:17:21.439 --> 1:17:24.760 uh fully recyclable. I mean my goal ultimately is to 1:17:24.760 --> 1:17:30.639 have an exoskeleton ski, so carbon fiber um metal elastomer's 1:17:30.800 --> 1:17:34.519 frame and then foam injected and then metal top or 1:17:35.000 --> 1:17:39.240 potentially fiberglass or high density rubber polymer top over it, 1:17:39.320 --> 1:17:42.080 and then you'd have a ski that everything was dictated 1:17:42.080 --> 1:17:44.960 by this skeletal system underneath, and that's how all your 1:17:44.960 --> 1:17:47.240 flex was dictated. The foam dampens it, and the tops 1:17:47.240 --> 1:17:49.439 just to protect it. When you're done with a ski, 1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:52.000 just heat it up, peel at apart, and everything is recyclable. 1:17:52.000 --> 1:17:54.200 I think that's it's a shame that nobody has taken 1:17:54.200 --> 1:17:58.040 that seriously. There's millions and millions and millions of cubic 1:17:58.080 --> 1:18:00.559 meters of waste coming out of the skins every single 1:18:00.640 --> 1:18:04.240 year because of that. Okay, if one listens to you 1:18:04.520 --> 1:18:07.639 in the landscape and the news and podcast et cetera, 1:18:08.040 --> 1:18:11.439 you seem to know everybody you have a relationship with 1:18:11.479 --> 1:18:15.479 all these technical people. Did they come to you because 1:18:15.479 --> 1:18:19.040 if you were fame or is your personality such that 1:18:19.120 --> 1:18:23.679 people end up being drawn to you? I don't know, Um, 1:18:23.800 --> 1:18:27.680 I only know the results. I can't speak to the motivation. UM, 1:18:27.800 --> 1:18:31.320 I know a lot of people. I enjoy learning and 1:18:31.360 --> 1:18:35.400 talking about concepts and ideas. I'm not a talk about 1:18:35.479 --> 1:18:38.479 this person or gossip type person. I like talking about 1:18:38.520 --> 1:18:42.200 inspirational things that um haven't been done or you know, 1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:45.760 creative ways to collaborate. So I think that's appealing. I 1:18:45.760 --> 1:18:48.160 think we're in an interesting time right now where you know, 1:18:48.200 --> 1:18:50.479 connectivity is much easier than it was ten years ago, 1:18:50.600 --> 1:18:52.479 right with the Internet. And I mean, you can get 1:18:52.479 --> 1:18:54.160 to anybody, so if somebody wants to get to me, 1:18:54.200 --> 1:18:56.840 they can get to me. So UM, but yeah, I 1:18:57.080 --> 1:19:01.320 feel very lucky to have, um had the relationships I've 1:19:01.360 --> 1:19:05.880 had and continue to grow because you know, I don't 1:19:05.960 --> 1:19:10.400 know nearly enough yet. And uh, I learned from a 1:19:10.400 --> 1:19:12.280 lot of really smart people that I surround myself with 1:19:12.320 --> 1:19:16.080 all the time. Okay, but you're involved in your app Skio, 1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:19.800 you have the ski company, you have the educational thing. 1:19:19.920 --> 1:19:22.840 How many projects are you actively involved in and what 1:19:22.920 --> 1:19:28.960 are they? Thirteen? Uh? Really actively? Um, but there's another 1:19:29.520 --> 1:19:32.240 six or seven that are kind of where I'm a 1:19:32.240 --> 1:19:36.280 I'm a role player. Um, but not it's not my 1:19:36.720 --> 1:19:41.360 primary thing. Uh. Snow Cookie, which is Skio Crossing Ski Company, 1:19:41.400 --> 1:19:45.160 I c L is my academy, Rivo sunglasses, goggles, helmet development, 1:19:45.160 --> 1:19:48.600 trying to make things safer and better. Um, my relationship 1:19:48.680 --> 1:19:50.839 up here in Big Sky which is Spanish peaks, Moonlight, 1:19:51.040 --> 1:19:54.200 forward facing real estate, all that stuff, Kuto which is 1:19:54.240 --> 1:19:58.240 a C too C booking platform, so you would book 1:19:58.280 --> 1:20:01.080 me to take you skiing here. And sky First is 1:20:01.120 --> 1:20:03.880 having to pay eight hundred bucks for an instructor. Um, 1:20:04.280 --> 1:20:07.280 a really good dude. Uh. Friends started that and I 1:20:07.360 --> 1:20:10.000 help him as tech. My clothing company that I'm not 1:20:10.080 --> 1:20:12.479 officially involved with any longer because they're kind of plateau 1:20:12.600 --> 1:20:16.760 ng but um. Alchemist Alpine uh company out of l 1:20:16.800 --> 1:20:21.280 A cannabis and medical stuff around cancer research and swim 1:20:21.320 --> 1:20:24.240 Pals are wearable like a watch that strounding prevention. After 1:20:24.280 --> 1:20:26.960 losing my daughter, we we got really involved in that 1:20:27.000 --> 1:20:28.960 and want to stop that from happening, so we were 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:32.400 inventing some new stuff. I'm working with the Nest guys 1:20:32.520 --> 1:20:36.519 Jamie simmon Off and guys at at Amazon for all 1:20:36.600 --> 1:20:38.640 that snow Bonn, which is the indoor ski hall. I'm 1:20:38.640 --> 1:20:41.280 a shareholder and it's outside of Denver now, but we're 1:20:41.320 --> 1:20:44.080 working on partnering with resorts and replicating that so that 1:20:44.120 --> 1:20:47.599 in these population hubs in Houston and Dallas and Atlanta, 1:20:47.960 --> 1:20:50.040 you can have these kids who would never be exposed 1:20:50.080 --> 1:20:53.120 to skiing go in and for thirty bucks experienced skiing 1:20:53.120 --> 1:20:55.040 and then package something together to have them go up 1:20:55.080 --> 1:20:58.040 to a local area for a tenth the cost and 1:20:58.160 --> 1:21:01.240 UH and get out. Their APEX is UH Technologies company 1:21:01.280 --> 1:21:03.800 that I'm in through my roommate at c v A, 1:21:04.000 --> 1:21:08.519 and they optimize UM everything from data security now that 1:21:08.720 --> 1:21:11.360 especially with COVID, everyone's going digital. It's a huge new 1:21:11.400 --> 1:21:14.120 push in that space. And their Ninja's flow code is 1:21:14.200 --> 1:21:17.320 Tim Armstrong's company was the CEO at A O L 1:21:17.400 --> 1:21:19.559 when I was there ten years ago, and we became 1:21:19.600 --> 1:21:22.799 friends and that's an advanced QR code. It's the fastest, 1:21:22.840 --> 1:21:25.000 quickest scanning QR code. So like now when you go 1:21:24.960 --> 1:21:27.800 into restaurant, your menu is that QR code. He has 1:21:27.840 --> 1:21:30.280 those that take you to a flow page that can 1:21:30.280 --> 1:21:33.679 do incredible stuff. He's just a wizard. Romp and Roost. 1:21:33.720 --> 1:21:36.559 We're building kids stuff because we have six six kids alive. 1:21:36.680 --> 1:21:38.439 We would have seven if we had lost my daughter, 1:21:38.960 --> 1:21:43.200 um parents stuff these you know, uh packing plays and 1:21:43.240 --> 1:21:45.479 travel accessories. When you go to a restaurant, how come 1:21:45.520 --> 1:21:47.360 it's such a pain in the ass with the high 1:21:47.400 --> 1:21:49.800 chairs and all that. And then Zortech, which is a 1:21:49.840 --> 1:21:52.920 shoe company that's doing smart shoes, so very similar to 1:21:53.520 --> 1:21:56.320 um to Skio where you get all his data out 1:21:56.320 --> 1:21:58.559 of your skiing the smart shoes, I want to put 1:21:58.600 --> 1:22:00.760 in Schuman's residents in of the shoe with a p 1:22:00.920 --> 1:22:03.479 c oh so you're basically like you're walking around with 1:22:03.560 --> 1:22:05.200 your feet in the grass or feet in the dirt 1:22:05.280 --> 1:22:09.680 all day because I think this electromagnetic field disturbances we're 1:22:09.680 --> 1:22:11.360 getting right now are kind of messing with a lot 1:22:11.360 --> 1:22:14.559 of people and so and then at the same time 1:22:14.560 --> 1:22:17.160 as giving you Shuman's Residents all day in your shoes. 1:22:17.400 --> 1:22:20.280 They're also giving you, you know, har rate variability and 1:22:20.320 --> 1:22:23.240 steps and stress levels and stress patterns. Hey, when you 1:22:23.280 --> 1:22:25.360 walk down this street you're super stressed every day, Maybe 1:22:25.400 --> 1:22:28.599 don't walk down that street. So, um, it's a that's 1:22:28.680 --> 1:22:31.760 there's about like I said, six more, but um, those 1:22:31.800 --> 1:22:33.360 are those are the main ones that I'm pretty heavily 1:22:33.400 --> 1:22:35.519 involved with. Okay, how do you have the time? How 1:22:35.560 --> 1:22:36.880 do you have the time to have even one of 1:22:36.920 --> 1:22:41.360 those in ski? Those those fit into the six percent 1:22:41.400 --> 1:22:43.840 of the time that I'm not dealing with my kids 1:22:43.880 --> 1:22:47.720 and and uh and wife and eating drinking wine. But 1:22:47.840 --> 1:22:50.599 are you actively involved? Needless to say, having your name 1:22:50.640 --> 1:22:54.720 attached to something is beneficial to an enterprise, But to 1:22:54.840 --> 1:22:57.160 what those are? Those are all? Those are all very active. 1:22:57.360 --> 1:23:00.240 Those are things where I have calls, maybe not really, 1:23:00.560 --> 1:23:03.200 but very active all the way from R and D 1:23:03.400 --> 1:23:07.640 to marketing to partnerships and getting things lined up, I 1:23:07.680 --> 1:23:11.320 mean everything. Those are Those are heavy involvement. And I'm 1:23:11.360 --> 1:23:14.400 I'm efficient, I am. I mean, you know, I dropped 1:23:14.400 --> 1:23:16.080 the ball all the time and every one of them. 1:23:16.080 --> 1:23:18.240 I'm very upfront. I'm like, look if I if I 1:23:18.240 --> 1:23:20.479 tell you I'm not not getting on that call. I'm 1:23:20.479 --> 1:23:21.840 not getting on the call. If you want to go 1:23:21.880 --> 1:23:24.160 find somebody else, fine, But like you know, so I'm 1:23:24.160 --> 1:23:26.120 open because I don't have the ability. I'm not a 1:23:26.200 --> 1:23:28.200 nine to five or I have. I literally fit that 1:23:28.240 --> 1:23:29.760 into the ten percent of the time where I'm not 1:23:29.800 --> 1:23:31.439 managing my kids and all that. I mean we have 1:23:31.720 --> 1:23:33.439 we have three kids who are two are under in 1:23:33.479 --> 1:23:35.800 the house, and it's there's not a lot of time 1:23:35.920 --> 1:23:37.680 that I can get this. This is a miracle that 1:23:37.720 --> 1:23:40.720 I've had this time. My wife's being an angel right now. Okay, 1:23:41.040 --> 1:23:42.439 just to go a little deeper and then just a 1:23:42.479 --> 1:23:46.280 couple more topics. Uh, what's the difference between Scio and 1:23:46.320 --> 1:23:50.599 this product that is being heavily hyped now Carve? Yeah, 1:23:50.800 --> 1:23:53.559 car I mean honestly, I love what Carve was doing. 1:23:53.640 --> 1:23:56.559 I've been in conversation with them. I know. The problem 1:23:56.600 --> 1:23:58.760 with that is their mechanisms. So they're doing it on 1:23:58.760 --> 1:24:00.800 the boot, They're doing it in the sole of the boot. 1:24:02.160 --> 1:24:04.800 You know, I'm never one to hate on anybody, but 1:24:05.040 --> 1:24:08.120 to disrupt somebody's boot, you have to, you know, insert 1:24:08.200 --> 1:24:10.759 this thing underneath your footboard. You're do what you're talking about. 1:24:11.120 --> 1:24:13.040 If you're doing your boots, right, there's no space in 1:24:13.040 --> 1:24:15.880 there to put that in there, so you're doingfications. But 1:24:15.960 --> 1:24:18.759 then but then also you're only able to capture certain 1:24:18.840 --> 1:24:23.000 data because the boot only does certain things. And what 1:24:23.040 --> 1:24:25.519 we did ours is three sensors. It's one on either 1:24:25.560 --> 1:24:27.439 ski just in front of the binding, and then one 1:24:27.479 --> 1:24:29.439 on the center of your chest. So we're talking about 1:24:29.840 --> 1:24:32.640 rotational force. It uses your phone and all the telemetry 1:24:32.640 --> 1:24:34.760 on your phone as well to have all that um 1:24:34.760 --> 1:24:37.840 but we can do rotation foraft movement. They do that 1:24:37.920 --> 1:24:41.120 through sensors in your foot. But again, you're you're getting 1:24:41.640 --> 1:24:46.479 When I skied on carve, I ripped fifteen ridiculously hard 1:24:46.520 --> 1:24:50.560 g s turns, perfect balance, you know, in and out consecutive. 1:24:50.720 --> 1:24:53.280 It said that I was sucking and then I slid 1:24:53.320 --> 1:24:55.639 a bunch of turns, just kind of bopping along super 1:24:55.680 --> 1:24:58.320 low edge angle, and it was like, great job, great job. 1:24:58.800 --> 1:25:00.720 So I think they have work to do on their 1:25:00.720 --> 1:25:03.160 algorithm engine. I think there's a place for it. I 1:25:03.200 --> 1:25:05.479 think a ton of people are going to benefit from it, 1:25:05.840 --> 1:25:09.000 but they're in a they went a route that was 1:25:09.479 --> 1:25:12.240 more difficult to achieve what I think ultimately is the goal, 1:25:12.280 --> 1:25:15.360 which is to have people have really good, clean, objective 1:25:15.400 --> 1:25:17.640 data that represents what it's supposed to represent. I can 1:25:17.680 --> 1:25:20.680 tell you from my experience I was skiing well, and 1:25:20.720 --> 1:25:22.679 it was saying I was sucking, and then vice versa. 1:25:22.960 --> 1:25:26.759 Ours is all built around you know. The algorithm is 1:25:26.760 --> 1:25:29.840 is legit, there's no if you're skiing better, it knows 1:25:29.880 --> 1:25:32.120 you're skiing better. And the in the centerpiece on your 1:25:32.160 --> 1:25:35.080 chest is really really important based because as you know, 1:25:35.200 --> 1:25:37.960 skiing is so much of it's how you're rotating, how 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:41.200 you're initiating, how your foraft balance is shifting through a turn, 1:25:41.280 --> 1:25:44.800 what your skis are doing vibrationally, if your edges are matched, um, 1:25:45.120 --> 1:25:47.360 what your pressure is on either edge. We can get 1:25:47.400 --> 1:25:50.519 all that, um, you know, very easily, as well as 1:25:50.600 --> 1:25:52.559 you know all the other things that they can get. Okay, 1:25:52.600 --> 1:25:55.960 I grew up during the ski boom. Okay, everybody skied 1:25:56.000 --> 1:25:58.840 in the sixties and early seventies. Having lived long enough, 1:25:58.880 --> 1:26:01.200 I know there are other of things. You know, there 1:26:01.280 --> 1:26:04.639 was a snowboard boom. Snowboard is actually decreasing slightly, not 1:26:04.680 --> 1:26:10.880 that just did a big thing. How do we reinvigorate skiing? Um? 1:26:10.960 --> 1:26:14.320 I think accessibility. Uh, if you look at the barriers 1:26:14.320 --> 1:26:16.800 to entry and skiing. It's no wonder that we have 1:26:16.840 --> 1:26:18.640 like an eight percent atrician rate, so eight out of 1:26:18.680 --> 1:26:20.599 tend people who ski for the first time don't try 1:26:20.600 --> 1:26:23.000 it again. Um that's been flat for about the last 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:26.760 thirty five years. So UM, that's a problem if you're 1:26:26.840 --> 1:26:30.400 if you're charging people enormous amounts the snow Bonn, So 1:26:30.439 --> 1:26:32.920 if you combine just and this is a big part 1:26:32.920 --> 1:26:35.920 of it, right, This is why all these projects become 1:26:36.320 --> 1:26:39.960 doable is because they're not these off on tangent silo 1:26:40.080 --> 1:26:43.080 little things. They're all connected. Snow Bonn is an indoor 1:26:43.120 --> 1:26:46.519 ski hall that allows people to learn to ski in 1:26:46.560 --> 1:26:49.200 about thirty minutes, from never having put ski boots on 1:26:49.240 --> 1:26:52.080 before to being able to go up onto a resort 1:26:52.120 --> 1:26:56.519 in ski blue runs snowplow, turn either direction, hockey stop 1:26:56.560 --> 1:26:59.599 on either side in twenty minutes for thirty dollars. So 1:27:00.040 --> 1:27:02.840 I want to replicate that in population hubs, and I 1:27:02.880 --> 1:27:05.080 want to tie it to the resorts because the lifetime 1:27:05.160 --> 1:27:08.519 value of a skier at a resort for Veil, for 1:27:08.760 --> 1:27:11.559 you know, Ask and whoever, that lifetime value is enormous. 1:27:11.640 --> 1:27:13.400 They can afford to give them a break for that 1:27:13.479 --> 1:27:15.559 first time, to get them interested, to get them psyched, 1:27:15.880 --> 1:27:18.559 um get them hooked if you will. So that whole 1:27:18.640 --> 1:27:21.000 package is one piece that ties in with Crossing, because 1:27:21.000 --> 1:27:23.360 I'm building special skis that actually work better on the 1:27:23.400 --> 1:27:27.080 carpet because it is this crazy, you know, big inside 1:27:27.120 --> 1:27:30.280 treadmill with carpet on it or plastic key carpet, and 1:27:30.320 --> 1:27:32.639 the skis don't work well. They're just using typical skis 1:27:32.680 --> 1:27:34.559 de tuning them and like, okay, give it a go. 1:27:34.920 --> 1:27:36.800 They need skis designed for that. So we're doing that 1:27:36.880 --> 1:27:39.840 with Crossing. My goal over the next four years is 1:27:39.880 --> 1:27:44.080 to reduce the cost of skis um go direct to customers. 1:27:44.160 --> 1:27:46.360 I mean we see retails going to the tank right, 1:27:46.400 --> 1:27:50.240 retails tanking everywhere, and COVID only accelerated that. But there's 1:27:50.240 --> 1:27:51.800 no reason you need to go into a ski shop 1:27:51.840 --> 1:27:54.559 to buy skis like to just asn't like with thirty 1:27:54.600 --> 1:27:57.439 day money that guarantee. Here's the skis two hundred bucks. 1:27:57.640 --> 1:28:00.720 Instead of selling them to a retailer for bucks and 1:28:00.760 --> 1:28:02.800 then they sell them to you for seven hundred bucks, 1:28:02.960 --> 1:28:04.760 we just sell them straight to you. We can make 1:28:04.800 --> 1:28:07.080 our margins, everything works, and you pay two hundred bucks, 1:28:07.120 --> 1:28:10.920 so reduce the cost of everything incrementally. There. Um, you 1:28:10.960 --> 1:28:14.360 know they've already done certain steps, the Icon Pass, Epic Pass, 1:28:14.400 --> 1:28:17.080 those are I think incremental steps in the right direction. 1:28:17.400 --> 1:28:20.439 I honestly think there's gonna be a new boom of 1:28:21.000 --> 1:28:24.200 very small resorts. You need traffic for that, and that 1:28:24.320 --> 1:28:26.680 hasn't supported that in the past because we've had no 1:28:26.720 --> 1:28:29.799 growth in the sport. But once these things are put together, 1:28:30.200 --> 1:28:33.120 there's these adventure parks that are incredibly profitable in Europe 1:28:33.160 --> 1:28:36.600 and they drive people to these other more more exclusive, 1:28:36.600 --> 1:28:40.200 more expensive involved operations. I think that when we spool 1:28:40.240 --> 1:28:44.560 out thirty five fifty hundred snow bonds in these population 1:28:44.760 --> 1:28:47.559 hubs and then we can run a ski resort that 1:28:47.720 --> 1:28:52.840 only operates from December eighteen till March and it has 1:28:52.880 --> 1:28:56.200 two lifts. You're only accommodating people who are the first 1:28:56.200 --> 1:28:58.479 three years of skiing, and then once they're better, sure 1:28:58.600 --> 1:29:01.599 graduate up to some others. But as you know, I mean, 1:29:01.720 --> 1:29:06.280 Christina Cosnick, Lindsey Vaughan, you know myself, steen mark on 1:29:06.439 --> 1:29:08.840 your person. They grew up on mountains. There were no 1:29:08.960 --> 1:29:11.280 bigger than my driveway is like, I mean, we're talking 1:29:11.320 --> 1:29:14.240 a couple hundred vertical feet you don't need, uh, you know, 1:29:14.360 --> 1:29:17.320 the Pyrenees to to go out and enjoy skiing and 1:29:17.360 --> 1:29:19.639 have a great time. So all those things I think 1:29:19.680 --> 1:29:24.400 play together. I think the industry has been remarkably inefficient 1:29:24.520 --> 1:29:28.120 at converting new skiers. And you know, but look at 1:29:28.160 --> 1:29:30.080 ale stock prices. I mean, they're doing all right, so 1:29:30.200 --> 1:29:32.920 I can't really pick on them too much. But I 1:29:32.960 --> 1:29:35.479 think that's you know, you go through the early life 1:29:35.560 --> 1:29:38.120 complaining about all these people doing things wrong, and at 1:29:38.120 --> 1:29:40.519 some point you gotta step up and start realizing somebody's 1:29:40.520 --> 1:29:42.320 just got to do it. So that's the phase of 1:29:42.439 --> 1:29:45.000 it now. And again that parlays with vos. You know, 1:29:45.200 --> 1:29:49.479 everything everything I work on is all aligned in terms 1:29:49.479 --> 1:29:51.400 of that stuff, so it ends up being a bit 1:29:51.439 --> 1:29:56.280 more efficient that way. Okay, very quickly, too quick tips 1:29:56.479 --> 1:30:00.360 piece of advice for people who are experienced skiers technique wise, 1:30:02.600 --> 1:30:07.200 Um yeah, I mean to me, upper lower body separation 1:30:07.320 --> 1:30:10.639 is the biggest conundrum for people is with sidecut skis. 1:30:10.680 --> 1:30:13.880 Now you can commit down the hill so much more 1:30:13.920 --> 1:30:16.880 if your skis finishing a turn, coming around and you're 1:30:16.960 --> 1:30:20.439 used to coming up, becoming neutral and then initiating your 1:30:20.439 --> 1:30:22.760 new turn and going down and making a turn. You've 1:30:22.760 --> 1:30:25.559 seen it in World Cup for years now. But I 1:30:25.600 --> 1:30:27.800 think the exciting thing is get on a really good ski. 1:30:27.920 --> 1:30:30.680 Stokely makes a really good carving ski. We make, I 1:30:30.720 --> 1:30:33.519 believe the best carving ski. UM A bunch of companies 1:30:33.560 --> 1:30:36.200 make a good one. And by good I mean super reliable. 1:30:36.200 --> 1:30:38.200 It's never gonna do anything crazy on you, because what 1:30:38.280 --> 1:30:41.479 we're talking about is finishing your turn. As you're coming 1:30:41.479 --> 1:30:44.240 across the fall line, your upper body goes over the 1:30:44.280 --> 1:30:46.240 top of your skis in a low position. So for 1:30:46.320 --> 1:30:49.480 that little moment, you're basically just letting go. You're relaxing, 1:30:49.520 --> 1:30:51.920 your knees are super bent, your ass is really far back. 1:30:52.200 --> 1:30:54.880 You're just traveling over your skis straight down the hill. 1:30:55.240 --> 1:30:57.200 As that happens, you're putting your place self in a 1:30:57.200 --> 1:31:00.559 position where you can back up a ski edge angle 1:31:00.640 --> 1:31:03.240 that's really high, and it's basically upper lower bodies sepreasure. 1:31:03.280 --> 1:31:05.680 You're continuing to turn one way while your body is 1:31:05.720 --> 1:31:07.960 going over the top, and then your edges switch really 1:31:08.040 --> 1:31:10.559 quickly from one edge to the other, and the skis 1:31:10.560 --> 1:31:13.439 initiate so quickly that they dive down underneath you and 1:31:13.479 --> 1:31:16.080 pick you back up. And I think for experienced gears 1:31:16.120 --> 1:31:19.840 that's a really something they haven't felt before, and it's 1:31:20.080 --> 1:31:24.439 it changes entirely the sport because you're in a long legged, 1:31:24.520 --> 1:31:26.639 really powerful position all the time. The only time where 1:31:26.640 --> 1:31:28.960 you're in that crunched up awkward phase, there's no pressure 1:31:28.960 --> 1:31:31.160 on You're just flying down the hill. And for me, 1:31:31.240 --> 1:31:33.400 that's how you know that that's the most exciting thing 1:31:33.400 --> 1:31:36.000 about carving skis. Okay, needless to say, you can make 1:31:36.000 --> 1:31:38.720 a deal with any of the major companies and endorsement 1:31:38.760 --> 1:31:41.599 deal and get a big check. Are you into it 1:31:41.680 --> 1:31:43.640 with cross and not only to make the skis for 1:31:43.720 --> 1:31:47.240 the upside? And to what degree? You know if these 1:31:47.280 --> 1:31:49.000 some of these figures are published, but we don't know 1:31:49.040 --> 1:31:51.519 what you did with the money. How are you doing 1:31:51.600 --> 1:31:54.559 financially and how are your compatriots who were successful in 1:31:54.600 --> 1:31:59.519 the circuit doing financially? Um? I mean I'm still working, 1:31:59.520 --> 1:32:01.759 so I'm not doing that good. Um. But it granted, 1:32:01.760 --> 1:32:03.519 my kids and wife cost me a lot of money. 1:32:03.640 --> 1:32:05.600 They know how to they know how to spend it. 1:32:05.640 --> 1:32:09.120 But um, you know, I think we're we're comfortable. I'm 1:32:09.479 --> 1:32:11.519 very fortunate that I do things that I love to 1:32:11.520 --> 1:32:13.479 do and I don't do them for money. But I'm 1:32:13.600 --> 1:32:16.240 fortunate enough to be valuable enough to companies where I 1:32:16.240 --> 1:32:18.880 can get compensated in a way that makes things makes 1:32:18.920 --> 1:32:24.919 the wheel turn. Um. But you know the other skiers generally, Um, 1:32:24.960 --> 1:32:26.759 you know, if you weren't number one in the world 1:32:26.760 --> 1:32:30.240 and winning a lot of races, your work in day job. Now, 1:32:30.360 --> 1:32:33.599 I mean Europe is different. Their icons. They they get 1:32:33.640 --> 1:32:36.080 sort of taken care of because they're in these semi 1:32:36.800 --> 1:32:41.160 you know, socialist type countries where they get a lodge 1:32:41.240 --> 1:32:43.479 or they're they do different things. They're kind of set up. 1:32:43.479 --> 1:32:45.200 But they also have such a different culture over there 1:32:45.200 --> 1:32:47.720 where it's not an economic ladder. They just they like 1:32:47.800 --> 1:32:50.200 to do things. So they just run a restaurant and 1:32:50.200 --> 1:32:53.400 host people because they like to Um. But you know, 1:32:53.439 --> 1:32:56.160 I could if you got any tips, I could certainly 1:32:56.200 --> 1:32:59.400 use some cash. But um, I'm doing okay, Okay, do 1:32:59.400 --> 1:33:03.639 you regret not going to college? No, Now, I went 1:33:03.680 --> 1:33:06.160 to lots of colleges. I just didn't go to college 1:33:06.280 --> 1:33:09.240 per se. Um. I was at colleges all over the 1:33:09.240 --> 1:33:12.000 country and all over the world. Um, but no, no, 1:33:12.120 --> 1:33:15.160 I'm a I'm an easy study like coaches that I 1:33:15.200 --> 1:33:17.320 was uncoachable. I think that's not really true. I think 1:33:17.360 --> 1:33:19.680 they were just beating their head against the wall and 1:33:19.720 --> 1:33:21.840 something that I was very committed to, and unfortunately it 1:33:21.840 --> 1:33:23.479 didn't align with what they wanted me to do. But 1:33:23.840 --> 1:33:26.720 I learned things really quickly. More or less, stuff that 1:33:26.800 --> 1:33:29.080 I need to figure out, I can figure out really quickly. 1:33:29.120 --> 1:33:30.360 And as I said, I'm I have some of the 1:33:30.360 --> 1:33:33.080 best mentors in the world, the smartest people, um, that 1:33:33.160 --> 1:33:36.920 I've found, and I learned really quickly from them. Okay, 1:33:37.280 --> 1:33:40.400 you've gone on record for political issues and how you 1:33:40.479 --> 1:33:43.599 view the country. What is your view of the overall 1:33:43.640 --> 1:33:49.840 state of the United States? And do we have any hope? Uh? Yeah, 1:33:49.920 --> 1:33:53.160 we have hope, um, not a lot. But you know, 1:33:53.200 --> 1:33:57.280 the for me, the problem is that we've we've diverged 1:33:57.320 --> 1:34:00.160 away from sort of the concept. The concept was that 1:34:00.240 --> 1:34:02.280 the people would sort of semi govern that we would. 1:34:02.560 --> 1:34:06.000 But when you have three million people with hugely diverse 1:34:06.000 --> 1:34:09.480 backgrounds and priorities and all this stuff, you have to 1:34:09.520 --> 1:34:12.280 modify the system. It's it can't be a you know, 1:34:12.680 --> 1:34:14.920 nationally governed, it has to be stay governed. I think 1:34:15.320 --> 1:34:19.120 micro micro governing bodies need to take more responsibility and 1:34:19.120 --> 1:34:22.599 and and have flexibility there Um. That to me is 1:34:22.600 --> 1:34:25.240 is where our salvation lies is. You know, you can 1:34:25.280 --> 1:34:27.960 have different views, you can have different philosophies and different 1:34:27.960 --> 1:34:31.400 lifestyles and different stuff, but it still has to fall 1:34:31.479 --> 1:34:34.080 within the parameters of the national That was the philosophy 1:34:34.080 --> 1:34:36.559 in the beginning. But it wasn't so real then because 1:34:36.600 --> 1:34:39.640 communication took three weeks to get a letter from Colorado 1:34:39.680 --> 1:34:43.519 back to Washington. But um or Virginia. But in this case, 1:34:43.760 --> 1:34:46.479 you know, you just have to we can't have this 1:34:46.479 --> 1:34:50.400 this crazy um. You know, these extremist groups that that 1:34:50.439 --> 1:34:53.440 stuff is garbage. I don't know the solution there. UM 1:34:53.520 --> 1:34:56.000 that that's problematic because there really are hate groups and 1:34:56.000 --> 1:34:58.559 then they just they're just angry and want to do damage. 1:34:58.600 --> 1:35:01.679 But some of that comes to um a cultural um. 1:35:01.840 --> 1:35:04.200 Feel good about what you're doing, and feel good about everybody. 1:35:04.240 --> 1:35:06.559 And that's because we've sucked for quite a while. I mean, 1:35:06.560 --> 1:35:09.120 I'm not a US hater, but I find it really 1:35:09.160 --> 1:35:11.120 funny that people say we're the best country in the 1:35:11.120 --> 1:35:13.200 world when they haven't really been to a lot of 1:35:13.200 --> 1:35:15.040 other countries. I've been to a lot of countries, and 1:35:15.080 --> 1:35:17.200 I can say I think Daniel Tosh says, it is 1:35:17.240 --> 1:35:20.200 that have you ever been to Fiji, like maybe you 1:35:20.200 --> 1:35:22.640 go there. You've been to New Zealand, like you know, 1:35:22.800 --> 1:35:25.519 universal healthcare, like you could show up there and break 1:35:25.560 --> 1:35:27.960 your leg and they take care of everything for you know, 1:35:28.080 --> 1:35:31.599 Bill is not perfect healthcare, like you know. I think 1:35:31.600 --> 1:35:34.360 there's a lot of things that unfortunately our government is 1:35:34.360 --> 1:35:36.960 incapable of doing because of the structure. And I don't 1:35:36.960 --> 1:35:39.160 know if that's going to change, But on a state 1:35:39.200 --> 1:35:42.479 and micro level, I think as we transition the renewable 1:35:42.560 --> 1:35:44.240 energies and we kind of I think we're gonna see 1:35:44.240 --> 1:35:47.880 a massive influx of job creation and and hopefully more 1:35:47.880 --> 1:35:50.559 productive direction than we've been for the last two hundred years. 1:35:50.920 --> 1:35:54.559 Um with you know, fossil fuels revolution that was that 1:35:54.680 --> 1:35:57.920 was inherently terminal, like it didn't you know, capitalism is 1:35:58.000 --> 1:36:01.000 terminal in and of itself. You can't always be uh um, 1:36:01.040 --> 1:36:03.560 you know, a capitalist culture exclusively. There always has to 1:36:03.600 --> 1:36:05.439 be some balance. We already have that. The irony is 1:36:05.439 --> 1:36:07.479 that people ignore the fact that we've been we have 1:36:07.560 --> 1:36:10.759 socialist programs. We have since the beginning. We've we've always 1:36:10.800 --> 1:36:14.120 had them. So it's just finding the balance there and 1:36:14.280 --> 1:36:19.000 hopefully um getting people excited to embrace the differences of 1:36:19.000 --> 1:36:22.160 our country because unfortunately or unfortunately, there's always gonna be 1:36:22.280 --> 1:36:24.479 huge variants in our in our people, in our in 1:36:24.520 --> 1:36:29.559 this country. Final question, this is one of perception for 1:36:29.600 --> 1:36:32.120 those of us who follow ski racing. Yes, you had 1:36:32.160 --> 1:36:35.040 that instant success with the K two fours, You did 1:36:35.160 --> 1:36:38.439 very well in the two thousand two Olympics. Then there 1:36:38.520 --> 1:36:41.000 was all this hope, in this hype which we get 1:36:41.040 --> 1:36:43.120 every four years in the Olympics United States. You were 1:36:43.160 --> 1:36:47.040 the golden boy. The success was not there, needless to say, Also, 1:36:47.080 --> 1:36:49.719 what I learned today, you're talking about certain equipment issues 1:36:49.880 --> 1:36:53.760 which were not well publicized. In addition, you've gone your 1:36:53.760 --> 1:36:57.439 own way in a country that thrives on group paint, 1:36:57.560 --> 1:37:01.120 group think, but all the pushing forward is by individuals 1:37:01.320 --> 1:37:05.760 who were frequently hated in them lauded. In addition, you 1:37:06.000 --> 1:37:09.200 commented did the play by play so to speak of 1:37:09.200 --> 1:37:13.120 the Olympics, and as opposed to being bobbed BIATI just 1:37:13.200 --> 1:37:16.680 being a national cheerleader. You got into the specifics of 1:37:16.840 --> 1:37:20.960 racing and took a lot of flak for that. So 1:37:21.000 --> 1:37:25.080 the question is, how do you feel about your perception 1:37:25.200 --> 1:37:29.880 of yourself. Do you think it should be changed? Do 1:37:29.960 --> 1:37:32.559 you care if it's changed? Do you bothered if it's 1:37:32.600 --> 1:37:37.600 not changed. No, I'm not bothered and I don't care. Um, 1:37:37.640 --> 1:37:40.479 you know, I feel like that was a big learning 1:37:40.560 --> 1:37:42.640 experience for me. It was oh six right right. I 1:37:42.720 --> 1:37:46.240 was petulant. I take responsibility for my own behavior. But 1:37:46.400 --> 1:37:48.519 it was also not an anomaly. I didn't. It wasn't 1:37:48.520 --> 1:37:50.200 like that was my time where I blew up. I 1:37:50.280 --> 1:37:53.160 was that way all my entire life. And the fact 1:37:53.280 --> 1:37:55.519 was I was unapologetic. I just I said, look, I 1:37:55.560 --> 1:37:57.559 did my best. I won the I was winning the 1:37:57.560 --> 1:37:59.760 combined by three seconds, right, ted end up winning the 1:37:59.760 --> 1:38:02.120 goal there. I was three seconds ahead of him after 1:38:02.160 --> 1:38:04.200 the first run of slalom, and I was disqualified. Like, 1:38:04.479 --> 1:38:06.640 you know, there's things that happened that they could have 1:38:06.720 --> 1:38:09.720 changed everything there they didn't. Um. You know, when I 1:38:09.760 --> 1:38:13.120 walked away from that, I was definitely uh you know, 1:38:13.600 --> 1:38:16.240 I was immature and I was not prepared for what 1:38:16.280 --> 1:38:18.400 I was dealing with. I was the top gun on 1:38:18.479 --> 1:38:20.920 World Cup. I had I was taking of all the 1:38:20.960 --> 1:38:24.040 demands and press and everything else, and I just I 1:38:24.080 --> 1:38:25.880 wasn't good enough and I needed to improve and I 1:38:25.920 --> 1:38:28.640 knew that so UM when I came back after the 1:38:28.680 --> 1:38:32.440 OH nine semi retirement into two thousand and ten, UM, 1:38:32.479 --> 1:38:34.880 I was really proud of how I'd evolved in that 1:38:35.080 --> 1:38:38.360 four year span. And I came back a different type 1:38:38.360 --> 1:38:42.040 of person, much more capable, much more broad skill set, 1:38:42.320 --> 1:38:45.719 capable of dealing with real adult things and and being 1:38:45.880 --> 1:38:50.920 clear about my prerogatives, but also much more um effectively 1:38:51.120 --> 1:38:54.000 talking about what I felt was important and how I 1:38:54.040 --> 1:38:57.280 could make that work with your average you know viewer 1:38:57.320 --> 1:38:59.559 who's just an American who wants you to say, go America, 1:38:59.600 --> 1:39:00.960 where the best? So I'm gonna win for you, guys 1:39:01.040 --> 1:39:03.559 like I understood that in that time frame. And it 1:39:03.560 --> 1:39:07.360 took that failure in OH six and all the fallout 1:39:07.400 --> 1:39:09.680 of that to learn. I mean, it's just the reality is, 1:39:09.680 --> 1:39:13.080 you learned through those struggles and and uh, I've been 1:39:13.120 --> 1:39:15.160 super I wouldn't change a thing about that. It was 1:39:15.200 --> 1:39:17.360 an ass kicking at the time, but it's not the 1:39:17.400 --> 1:39:19.479 first as kicking I've taken. It certainly won't be the last. 1:39:19.560 --> 1:39:21.840 So to come into ten and win three medals and 1:39:21.880 --> 1:39:25.000 really kind of give the American people what they wanted 1:39:25.360 --> 1:39:28.320 in my on my own terms and with that expression 1:39:28.640 --> 1:39:32.200 and my my comfort level. Unfortunately I missed that stop 1:39:32.280 --> 1:39:35.479 on the on the attributes trade train when I was 1:39:35.520 --> 1:39:38.760 being created that I didn't feel satisfaction about that part 1:39:38.800 --> 1:39:40.600 of it, like I proved anyone wrong or anything. I 1:39:40.640 --> 1:39:43.879 just felt good that I had evolved and hopefully matured 1:39:43.920 --> 1:39:46.400 a little bit where I was more capable and not 1:39:46.479 --> 1:39:49.800 making the same stupid mistakes i'd make made before. Yes, 1:39:49.840 --> 1:39:53.720 but at the Olympics, Lindsey Vaughan was the heroine with 1:39:53.800 --> 1:39:56.599 one gold medal, and you had a better performance than 1:39:56.600 --> 1:40:00.240 anyone had ever had in the Winter Olympics skiing as 1:40:00.280 --> 1:40:03.120 a male, and they gave you a fraction of the attention. 1:40:04.920 --> 1:40:07.599 But as as you said, no, as you said, there's nothing, 1:40:07.760 --> 1:40:10.680 especially American culture, putting somebody on the pedestal and then 1:40:10.720 --> 1:40:12.479 they want to knock the pedestal out, you know, and 1:40:12.520 --> 1:40:13.920 then they want to build you back up, and then 1:40:13.960 --> 1:40:16.040 they want to knock the pedestal. The thing that was 1:40:16.080 --> 1:40:19.040 interesting about that is because I retired in oh nine 1:40:19.360 --> 1:40:22.720 and I didn't start my Olympic run until August. I mean, 1:40:22.760 --> 1:40:24.920 I was fatten out of shape and had no skis, 1:40:24.920 --> 1:40:28.599 no technician, no nothing going into the World Cup season. Um, 1:40:29.360 --> 1:40:31.519 they didn't have any time before I was six, and 1:40:31.520 --> 1:40:33.559 that summer going into six, I was on a cover 1:40:33.600 --> 1:40:36.840 of Time, Newsweek, Men's Journal, Sports Illustrated. You know, that 1:40:37.000 --> 1:40:39.000 was the build up, That was the pedestal. They had 1:40:39.040 --> 1:40:41.960 no time. Nobody could scramble. They'd already they'd already put 1:40:42.000 --> 1:40:44.599 Lindsay as their person. They were pot committed to her. 1:40:44.880 --> 1:40:47.200 So the fact that she delivered, they were on board. 1:40:47.240 --> 1:40:49.120 They were like, yeah, see, we were right. She's our 1:40:49.160 --> 1:40:52.160 American hero and they had for me. I was a 1:40:52.160 --> 1:40:54.519 side note. Because they had they couldn't validate, you know, 1:40:54.840 --> 1:40:58.320 not the individuals, but mainstream press likes to be right right, 1:40:58.360 --> 1:41:01.200 So the fact that I did well didn't help them. 1:41:01.200 --> 1:41:04.639 They were They weren't upset individually, but as a as 1:41:04.680 --> 1:41:07.799 an industry, they were upset because they didn't have the scoop. 1:41:07.880 --> 1:41:10.240 They didn't have it, you know, set up right to 1:41:10.360 --> 1:41:13.719 capitalize on that. And so, um, it's exactly what I expected. 1:41:13.720 --> 1:41:15.479 And as I said, I was very aware of that 1:41:15.560 --> 1:41:17.680 by that point, and they didn't upset me at all. 1:41:17.720 --> 1:41:20.680 I was really proud and excited to have you know, 1:41:20.720 --> 1:41:23.320 like I said, matured and got better and then delivered. 1:41:23.320 --> 1:41:24.519 I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't 1:41:24.520 --> 1:41:26.720 matter how good you are, how mature you are, It 1:41:26.760 --> 1:41:28.519 comes down a hundreds of the second. You know how 1:41:28.560 --> 1:41:30.800 tight those races were. And at the end of the day, 1:41:30.880 --> 1:41:34.080 those performances that I put down there my the actual 1:41:34.200 --> 1:41:36.479 skiing I did to get that gold medal in the 1:41:36.520 --> 1:41:39.480 combined what I did in that slow on course was 1:41:39.479 --> 1:41:41.400 was nothing short of a miracle. I mean I was 1:41:41.680 --> 1:41:44.760 that was the that was the pinnacle of what you'd 1:41:44.760 --> 1:41:49.040 hoped for of yourself in an Olympic environment. And uh yeah, 1:41:49.120 --> 1:41:51.400 to do it after having let people down and let 1:41:51.400 --> 1:41:53.479 myself down the way I didn't know six was was 1:41:53.800 --> 1:41:57.120 a miracle. And then obviously fourteen I pulled off, you know, 1:41:57.400 --> 1:41:59.240 a bronze medal that I was as proud of as 1:41:59.280 --> 1:42:02.360 any medal that i'd ever you know, had in any event. 1:42:03.000 --> 1:42:07.759 Why is that the night before my brother it's supposed 1:42:07.800 --> 1:42:09.519 to go to that Olympics, that he was going to 1:42:09.600 --> 1:42:11.240 go as a snowboarder. It would have been the first 1:42:11.240 --> 1:42:15.160 one we've been at together, he passed away into um 1:42:15.200 --> 1:42:17.840 and before I should have won the downhill, I was 1:42:18.000 --> 1:42:20.920 crushing guys in the training runs conditions change, we could. 1:42:21.000 --> 1:42:23.280 We didn't have the skis to be competitive on the bottom. 1:42:23.280 --> 1:42:25.040 I was losing a second and a half on the 1:42:25.040 --> 1:42:27.800 bottom just going straight across, you know, eight hundred yards 1:42:28.320 --> 1:42:31.479 um and I end up losing in my stronger events, 1:42:31.479 --> 1:42:33.160 and the super gew was kind of the last one. 1:42:33.680 --> 1:42:36.200 And uh, the night before I took my goggle strap 1:42:36.240 --> 1:42:39.280 off my helmet and I replaced it with with one 1:42:39.320 --> 1:42:41.960 of those um physio bands, you know, those bands like 1:42:42.000 --> 1:42:43.880 the red and green that you used to stretch out, 1:42:43.880 --> 1:42:46.120 And so I replaced it with one of those. And 1:42:46.280 --> 1:42:48.840 I thought about doing that for ten years. I don't 1:42:48.840 --> 1:42:50.880 know it's I put it in the wind tunnel. We tested. 1:42:50.920 --> 1:42:53.879 We knew that that made a difference, and I said, look, tomorrow, 1:42:54.520 --> 1:42:56.720 a hundredth is going to make the difference. And so 1:42:56.760 --> 1:42:58.920 I replaced that for the first time in four hundred 1:42:58.960 --> 1:43:02.519 and thirty World Cup races, I replaced it and tied 1:43:02.560 --> 1:43:05.680 for third place. So one hundredth slower and I have 1:43:05.760 --> 1:43:08.800 no medal. And I come out of the Olympics, you know, 1:43:09.000 --> 1:43:10.840 dealing with all the press of no medals. Just that 1:43:10.920 --> 1:43:15.320 one bronze medal saves all that stuff. But also it 1:43:15.439 --> 1:43:18.559 was it was really indicative of my level of of 1:43:18.760 --> 1:43:23.120 commitment and you know, and ingenuity and and and self reliance. 1:43:23.160 --> 1:43:24.679 I mean, no one did it. I was the only 1:43:24.800 --> 1:43:27.720 dude in the race with a rubberized goggle strap that 1:43:27.920 --> 1:43:29.920 in a wind tunnel, I know, makes point oh six 1:43:30.000 --> 1:43:34.760 percent difference, which was theoretically in a in a minute race, 1:43:34.800 --> 1:43:37.600 which that was is a second. So and I and 1:43:37.640 --> 1:43:41.240 I one hundred slower and I get no medal. So 1:43:41.439 --> 1:43:43.120 you tie for second, you're one hundred slower, you just 1:43:43.160 --> 1:43:46.799 got a bronze, no problem. You tie for third, one slower, 1:43:47.000 --> 1:43:50.840 you get nothing. Bronze medal is important. And at that 1:43:50.960 --> 1:43:54.520 point I was the oldest Olympic medalist in history globally. 1:43:55.040 --> 1:43:57.559 Um it was. It was massive. And to know that 1:43:58.720 --> 1:44:01.880 all other things excluded that goggle strap that I've done 1:44:01.880 --> 1:44:04.519 for the first time in my whole life, uh made 1:44:04.560 --> 1:44:07.879 the difference, got me a metal. Um was was interesting 1:44:07.960 --> 1:44:11.920 and obviously, uh you know, I felt like, uh, you know, 1:44:12.280 --> 1:44:15.599 it was it was a testament to my commitment and 1:44:15.640 --> 1:44:19.200 the representation of my my commitment to getting better and 1:44:19.360 --> 1:44:23.640 not leaving any stones unturned. Okay, And the comments that 1:44:23.760 --> 1:44:27.960 you got in reaction to your play by play will 1:44:28.000 --> 1:44:30.400 you do that again? Did that hurt? What was the 1:44:30.439 --> 1:44:34.600 blowback from the people on the inside who hired you. No, 1:44:34.760 --> 1:44:37.000 they loved it. I mean we got way more positive 1:44:37.000 --> 1:44:41.000 feedback than negative. Um, because anyone who was a skier 1:44:41.320 --> 1:44:44.800 appreciated it because it actually instructed them and formed them 1:44:44.840 --> 1:44:47.840 of what was going on. They found that really educational 1:44:48.000 --> 1:44:51.559 and interesting and much more than just a cheerleader. Um, 1:44:51.600 --> 1:44:53.880 which was my intent. I mean, honestly, I feel like 1:44:53.880 --> 1:44:56.760 one of the biggest failings of of this industry has 1:44:56.800 --> 1:45:00.600 been education, has been informing people, you know, democratizing information 1:45:00.800 --> 1:45:03.720 and UM. So that's where the way I approached it. 1:45:03.840 --> 1:45:07.320 I after that Olympics, it was live prime time in 1:45:07.360 --> 1:45:09.160 the US. I was a big one for me to 1:45:09.200 --> 1:45:12.920 just know that I could do and be there and execute. 1:45:13.000 --> 1:45:15.519 But afterwards I was like, I'll do it again, but 1:45:15.520 --> 1:45:17.400 you're gonna pay me ten times as much and you're 1:45:17.400 --> 1:45:19.080 gonna fly my family. I can't be away from my 1:45:19.120 --> 1:45:23.040 family for three weeks. And in China, Korea, UM, And 1:45:23.120 --> 1:45:25.640 I think they see it as talent is more or 1:45:25.680 --> 1:45:29.559 less interchangeable, and in this case, um, you know, they 1:45:29.640 --> 1:45:32.559 hired Lindsay, which I'm I love Lindsay so I'm looking 1:45:32.560 --> 1:45:34.920 forward to seeing what she can do. And where are 1:45:35.040 --> 1:45:38.760 all your globes and medals and trophies, uh, bunch or 1:45:38.760 --> 1:45:40.960 in the Ski Museum in New Hampshire. Actually a buddy 1:45:41.560 --> 1:45:44.160 zoom I was on a zoom call earlier. He was 1:45:44.160 --> 1:45:48.080 there skiing at Cannon. He zoomed us um from in there. 1:45:48.120 --> 1:45:50.120 But I don't know. A bunch of them are all 1:45:50.160 --> 1:45:52.000 around different places. I don't. I don't think I have 1:45:52.080 --> 1:45:54.479 any in my house here, so it's kind of like 1:45:54.520 --> 1:45:58.160 a musician who keeps their grammy in the bathroom. In 1:45:58.240 --> 1:46:01.600 any event, body, I so much for talking with me. 1:46:02.120 --> 1:46:04.680 It's really been great. You've been able to answer questions 1:46:04.720 --> 1:46:08.320 that I've never seen either asked or answered in all 1:46:08.360 --> 1:46:12.560 of the ski media. So I really appreciate that. I 1:46:12.600 --> 1:46:15.840 appreciate it. Great to talk to you. Okay, hopefully I 1:46:15.840 --> 1:46:18.160 can see on the hill one day. And I'm one 1:46:18.160 --> 1:46:19.880 of those people. I do have those five piers of 1:46:19.920 --> 1:46:21.840 ski so I know what you're talking about. If you've 1:46:21.840 --> 1:46:24.360 got one pier of skis, it would work. I'm all ears. 1:46:24.520 --> 1:46:26.800 I'll get this already right out until next time. This 1:46:26.960 --> 1:46:27.960 is Bob left Sex