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Speaker 1: This is the business of sports where in the situation

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Speaker 1: that we haven't dealt with in modern times, pandemic here

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Speaker 1: has really accelerated the investments that we've been advocating for

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Speaker 1: for years. From a Macrow standpoint, I think our sport

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Speaker 1: industry is really forced to look at the business a

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Speaker 1: little bit differently in depth conversations with the leaders in

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Speaker 1: the sports industry. Who wants to be the sacrificial lambs

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Speaker 1: that shows up at the first big major sporting event

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Speaker 1: were part of something much bigger than the sport right

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Speaker 1: now and the health and safety of our stakeholders that

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Speaker 1: looks much important every moment. I think we're all from

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Speaker 1: the business respective thinking about the impact that the virus

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Speaker 1: is having on across the country. Inst Bloomberg Business of

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Speaker 1: Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hi, everyone, I'm Jason Kelly, and

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Speaker 1: I'm Micha Lynch and I'm Michael bar Over the next hour,

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Speaker 1: we will explore the big money issues in the world

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Speaker 1: of sports and talk to some of the biggest players

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Speaker 1: in the industry. So coming up on the show, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna catch up with our pal Joos Sarah Bloomberg, opinion columnists,

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Speaker 1: bestselling author, podcaster as well. We're gonna talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about the n C Double A. So let's start there

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Speaker 1: among ourselves, gentlemen, which is college football. What a season.

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Speaker 1: It has been some bumps and bruises along the way,

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Speaker 1: to be sure, but we are going to have a playoff,

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Speaker 1: and true to form, nothing goes according to plan here

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Speaker 1: in so the Rose Bowl usually in Pasadena, California, it's

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Speaker 1: going to be in Texas. Lynch E doesn't feel right, Well,

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Speaker 1: the Roses will be yellow down in Texas. The bubom boom. Well,

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Speaker 1: at least they're going to play. There was a time

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Speaker 1: last spring and early summer on the three of us

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Speaker 1: sat on this show and just said, there's no way

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Speaker 1: this is going to be able to play. You're not

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Speaker 1: gonna be able to keep seventy five kids healthy. And

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Speaker 1: some leagues obviously did not play football this year, but

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Speaker 1: three started, and then two power conferences says, well, we're

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Speaker 1: not gonna get left out of this, and now all

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Speaker 1: five power conferences jumped in. Eventually, Ohio State, you know,

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Speaker 1: didn't have an of games, but they sound somehow finagle there.

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Speaker 1: The league finagled the way for them to get in

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Speaker 1: front of that championship game. Yeah, it is when I

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Speaker 1: looked at what what the what the payout is the

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Speaker 1: conference gets for a team that is in the college

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Speaker 1: football playoff. Now I understand why. I think it's about

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Speaker 1: six million per school. If you have a representative in

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Speaker 1: the college football playoffs. Well, I bet this is gonna

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Speaker 1: come up with genera Sarah. But you know, Michael Barr,

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Speaker 1: it does make me think if you're sitting in Columbus,

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Speaker 1: you're happy. If you're sitting in Cincinnati, you're furious because

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Speaker 1: your Bearcats went eight and oh and they're nowhere to

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Speaker 1: be found in the playoffs. And you know what else

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Speaker 1: It It really intensifies and magnifies the old argument, Hey,

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Speaker 1: our team played our high knees off and we didn't

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Speaker 1: even get a notice. Yeah, I mean we we've had

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Speaker 1: this argument in the past, but especially now in a

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Speaker 1: COVID era related game, trying to play through this that

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Speaker 1: it's not fair to some of the teams that have

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Speaker 1: really worked hard to go undefeated, like you mentioned, and

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Speaker 1: and not even get enough. Yeah, I mean, the power

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Speaker 1: of five just has a strangle hold on this college

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Speaker 1: football playoff. That's a whole debate for another day, although

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Speaker 1: one we're gonna have a little bit later on with

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Speaker 1: Jonah's era. As I mentioned. Meanwhile, one of the leagues

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Speaker 1: that did do pretty well amidst all of this is

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Speaker 1: the NHL, And just like the NBA, they are getting

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Speaker 1: back to business one season for the NHL starting mid January.

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Speaker 1: The NBA, of course, uh tipped off this week. So Lynchy,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel about professional hockey? You're a Boston guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy about it, especially happy about the realignment because

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Speaker 1: so they've they've geographically put all the teams together. And

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Speaker 1: if you're a Boston fan, you've got Buffalo, New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: the Islanders, the Rangers, you've got the Flyers, you've got

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Speaker 1: the Washington Capitals, and and it's great. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: it'll cut down on the travel. And you know under

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Speaker 1: the old the old alignment that the teams like the

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Speaker 1: brew couldn't play plays a team like the Flyers with

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Speaker 1: the Rangers unless they go to the conference finals. So

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Speaker 1: I think this works. All the Canadian teams are in

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Speaker 1: a division by themselves, and Michael Barr, you don't have

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Speaker 1: to travel too far, but you've got a couple of

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Speaker 1: Florida teams in your division out there in the central

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Speaker 1: I think, so the puck will drop there in mid January,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we'll see how both the NHL and

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Speaker 1: the NBA seasons go along. And as of right now,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna see baseball. One of the outstanding questions I

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Speaker 1: think for all of these leagues is will there be

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Speaker 1: fans in the stands because a limited amount of people

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Speaker 1: watching baseball games. Nobody obviously watched NHL or NBA last season.

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Speaker 1: I think they're gonna see what they can do as

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Speaker 1: the NBA and the NHL go along. Well, if you

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Speaker 1: are at home, as most of us are most days,

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Speaker 1: maybe you've got a Peloton. The home fitness industry, it

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Speaker 1: has been booming, and Peloton stock has gone bananas. It

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Speaker 1: is up more more than four hundred percent this year

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Speaker 1: as people try and stay fit and stay home. So

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Speaker 1: what's Peloton doing. They're using some of that money to

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Speaker 1: buy another company, fitness equipment maker pre Core. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: going to improve distribution and maybe get some of those

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Speaker 1: bikes and treadmills to folks a little bit faster. I

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Speaker 1: caught up exclusively with Peloton president William Lynch. Here's what

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Speaker 1: he had to say about the deal. We have seen

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Speaker 1: a ton of growth. Um. No one would wish the

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Speaker 1: global pandemic on anybody, but it's been tail win for

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Speaker 1: our business as people are home huge growth numbers, and

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Speaker 1: so keeping up with that growth, which has been a

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Speaker 1: moving target, has been a big company priority. And so

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Speaker 1: whether it's the investments we've made in Taiwan before this,

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Speaker 1: we've been investing for years now in growing the supply chain. Um,

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Speaker 1: this is one element of that strategy. That's William Lynch

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Speaker 1: to the president of Peloton, catching up with me this

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Speaker 1: week on the heels of announcing a big deal four

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Speaker 1: twenty million dollars to buy pre Corps. You know, Lynch,

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Speaker 1: you we talked a lot on this show, whether it's

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Speaker 1: in pro sports or elsewhere, about sort of the haves

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Speaker 1: and the have nots when it comes to business of sports. Peloton,

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Speaker 1: there I have, there have and they're gonna be like

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Speaker 1: pac Man. They're gonna gobble up all the competitors all

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Speaker 1: the way around the board. And this is their time,

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Speaker 1: as as her Brooks said one time, this is their

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Speaker 1: time right now and they're taking full advantage of it.

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Speaker 1: So Bar you know, one of the big questions when

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Speaker 1: it comes to fitnesses Will people go back to Jim's eventually?

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Speaker 1: Will that kind of be bad news for Peloton? Doesn't

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Speaker 1: feel like it's going to happen anytime soon. Feels like

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Speaker 1: some fundamental shifts in this sector of the sports world. Well,

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Speaker 1: you talk about the have nots. Some have Pelotons and

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Speaker 1: others like me have a craftsman and it's about it.

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Speaker 1: So I am looking forward. I don't know if going

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Speaker 1: back to the gym is gonna happen necessarily, but people

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Speaker 1: are going to invest in exercise equipment. I could see

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Speaker 1: that happening Peloton. They're leading away absolutely today. I am

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Speaker 1: so excited. I know we all are to be speaking

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Speaker 1: with Bloomberg opinion columnists, best selling author podcast or Extraordinariy Joe,

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Speaker 1: no Sarah, just the guy that we want to kind

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Speaker 1: of wrap up this crazy, upside down, turbulent year with.

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Speaker 1: He joins us from out east. As they say, Joe,

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Speaker 1: how the heck are you? I'm good. I'm good. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think what they say is are you on the island?

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Speaker 1: On the island, You're on the island, all right? Well,

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Speaker 1: fair enough, fair enough, um so taking stock of let's

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Speaker 1: start there. When it comes to sports, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: a lot about the n C Double as as the

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Speaker 1: show goes on. But and that's clearly a big part

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Speaker 1: of the story. But as you sort of look at

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Speaker 1: the sports world and the business world and that nexus

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Speaker 1: where you have spent so much time, what do you

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Speaker 1: make a well, I would name as Sportsman of the

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Speaker 1: Year Adam Silver, the comeer of the NBA. I mean

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Speaker 1: he he did it first, and he did it right.

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Speaker 1: They you know, he was the first that was the

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Speaker 1: first league to shut down because of COVID. It was

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Speaker 1: the first league to figure out that you could contain

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Speaker 1: the virus in a bubble. And you know that that's

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Speaker 1: what they did, um for all of last season and

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Speaker 1: even they got themselves so they got themselves a champion

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Speaker 1: named and so I start there. It was the year

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Speaker 1: of COVID. That's just what it was. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when you look at the professional leagues, UM, they more

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Speaker 1: or less have done Okay, they've had a lot of cases,

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Speaker 1: but they haven't had any They don't appear to have

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Speaker 1: any you know, heart conditions or deaths or um. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, football is being played. The baseball got played. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, very few people got got in the sands,

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Speaker 1: but there was on TV, so they they made their

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Speaker 1: From a business standpoint, it worked out in terms of,

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Speaker 1: you know, making the money from their television contract. College

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Speaker 1: is a different story. Um, Collins has been kind of

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Speaker 1: a disaster. Um. I think I saw a statistic recently

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Speaker 1: that said, of the six hundred fifty college football games

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Speaker 1: that were planned or that we're scheduled, you know, something

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Speaker 1: like a hundred and fifty of them got canceled because

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Speaker 1: of COVID. There was really recently a basketball player who

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Speaker 1: who who collapsed on the court, and people think it

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Speaker 1: might have been an after after effect of COVID. We're

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Speaker 1: not sure. Um, you know, uh, down at Duke, coach

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Speaker 1: Showsky was suggesting that maybe it wasn't such a good

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Speaker 1: idea that everybody is rushing to um uh to play

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Speaker 1: games and to and to get in the NCAA basketball schedule,

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Speaker 1: which I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more, but uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, in in in the in the college game

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Speaker 1: that what's really problematic about it is that it really

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Speaker 1: points out and start start fashion the hypocrisies that's around

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Speaker 1: you know, college sports. The first of all, you know,

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Speaker 1: they say that that that that the athletes are quote

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Speaker 1: unquote student athletes who are there to get an education

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Speaker 1: and play a little football on the side, and and

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Speaker 1: and here they are being put in a position of

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Speaker 1: risking their health so that the universities can make the

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Speaker 1: television money that they are so dependent on, that they

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Speaker 1: are athletical provierences so dependent on, and and and it

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Speaker 1: really points up the extent to which you know college sports,

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Speaker 1: you know, is less less of a sport and more

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Speaker 1: of a business every day. And the business has uh

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Speaker 1: requirements that have to be met, not the least of

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Speaker 1: which is contractual requirements with with the networks, because that's

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Speaker 1: the only way that they can fill their confers. I

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Speaker 1: hate to be judgmental, but I said this earlier and

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Speaker 1: it's going to come out judge as a judgment. College

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Speaker 1: kids are going to be college kids, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's amazing. Your reason why we've seen the spike in

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Speaker 1: collegiate football, basketball, you name it, because college kids are

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Speaker 1: gonna go to a party and and do whatever. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we hear the stories all the time. I guess your

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Speaker 1: thoughts about that, am I'm thinking like an old coop

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Speaker 1: or what's going on? No, I don't think you're thinking

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Speaker 1: about like an old coupe. But think about it. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're not wearing masks in the in the in the

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Speaker 1: weight room either. You know, they're not wearing masks in

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Speaker 1: the in the in the locker room. So even if

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Speaker 1: they even if they weren't out partying, they're still not

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Speaker 1: doing any of the masking and social distancing and other

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Speaker 1: things that that that is generally thought to be what

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Speaker 1: prevents people from getting COVID. UH. It's just the environment

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Speaker 1: of it, UH, you know, UH causes it to spread.

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Speaker 1: In the pros. You know, you talk about parties when

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Speaker 1: you're not getting paid to play a sport. UH. You know,

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Speaker 1: you don't have a whole lot of incentive not to

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Speaker 1: go to those parties. When you're a professional making five

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Speaker 1: million dollars a year and they say you need to

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Speaker 1: stay in your hotel room until game time, there's a

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Speaker 1: whole lot more at stake, uh in terms of your livelihood.

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Speaker 1: So you know, that might explain somewhat the difference between

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Speaker 1: UH pro and college in terms of COVID Joe. It

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Speaker 1: looks like college football is going to make it to

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Speaker 1: the finish line. They may be limping to the finish line,

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Speaker 1: but they're gonna make it that. The sad part about

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Speaker 1: this is the line of demarcation between the halves and

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Speaker 1: the have nots is really magnified this year with so

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Speaker 1: many schools eliminating such great programs. I look at Clemson

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Speaker 1: and full disclosure, my sister went there in a full

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Speaker 1: tennis scholarship. She loves him. But they just eliminated women's

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Speaker 1: track and field and they have a football facility that

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Speaker 1: includes a barbershop, a bowling alley, miniature golf, a slide whiffleball, basketball,

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Speaker 1: a movie theater. How can how can people sit around

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Speaker 1: and let this happen and let great programs like track

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Speaker 1: and field be eliminated. Well, I also don't forget this

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Speaker 1: is happening all over the country and think what this

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Speaker 1: is going to do to our Olympic efforts. This is

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Speaker 1: where so many Olympic athletes train, swimming, wrestling, track and field,

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Speaker 1: you know, the sports that we really excel at in

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Speaker 1: America um are being damaged because of the primacy of football.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're absolutely right. I mean Clemson has

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Speaker 1: has basically decided football is what matters, and in terms

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Speaker 1: of it being a business, they're right, they're right. The

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Speaker 1: swim team, the wrestling team doesn't make any money, the

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Speaker 1: track and field team doesn't make any money. But it

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Speaker 1: is a betrayal really of what intercollegiate athletics is supposed

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Speaker 1: to be about, you know. And and um, it's not

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Speaker 1: supposed to be maximizing revenue on the backs of the

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Speaker 1: football team. And just and and and you know, everybody

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Speaker 1: took a financial hit. Everybody's taking a financial hit this

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Speaker 1: year in in in sports, in college sports, except the

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Speaker 1: football and basketball teams. And there's just something that's just wrong.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's wrong. It's just something wrong with this. So, Joe,

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Speaker 1: we are really interested and obsessed, I might even say,

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Speaker 1: about the future of college athletics. And we talked with

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Speaker 1: Amy Privitt Perco a couple of weeks ago. She is

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Speaker 1: the CEO of the Night Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics. As

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Speaker 1: you know, here's what she had to say in terms

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Speaker 1: of a potential solution. According to her group, we believe

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Speaker 1: that there should be a separate entity created to govern

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Speaker 1: uh football at the at what is currently the SBS level.

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Speaker 1: So the highest level of college football should have its

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Speaker 1: own separate entity, and that entity should be uh supported

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Speaker 1: and funded by the college football yall, which a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't realize is actually, you know, independent of

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Speaker 1: the n c a A. So that is any private

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Speaker 1: perco head of the Night Commission, someone you're familiar with, Joe, No, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Would that solve the problem? I

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Speaker 1: don't know what she means by governed? Does she mean

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Speaker 1: that the n c A would have nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with uh with with top the top with FBS. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: They break it off completely. They formed what's called a

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Speaker 1: National College Football Associations what she said they want to form. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time envisioning how that will actually

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Speaker 1: make things better, because, um, you're still going to have

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Speaker 1: the issues that you currently have with the with the

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Speaker 1: sports that don't make any money, you know, with the

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Speaker 1: non revenue sports, and you know, you're still gonna have

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Speaker 1: the same issues around basketball that you have with football.

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Speaker 1: UM would never get about because that's how it makes

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Speaker 1: all this money. That's where all the money comes from, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's for the n c A itself. It's

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Speaker 1: entire budget comes out of March madness, that's right. And

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Speaker 1: then it takes a lot of that money, and it

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Speaker 1: distributes it to the various schools, you know, unlike and

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Speaker 1: the football playoffs, you know, forgot. I mean, that's really

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Speaker 1: just about the power five. As we learned this here,

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati went eight. No, Notre Dame got crushed Slemon, and

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame's in and and Cincinnati can't get even close

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Speaker 1: to the college football playoffs. It's it's I'm digressing, but

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Speaker 1: it's a useful digression. No, it's but it's a really

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Speaker 1: important thing because the economics and the everything has been

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Speaker 1: skewed by the power of five. I think that's just true.

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Speaker 1: It is absolutely true. I mean what I I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's what I think should happen. I have a different

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Speaker 1: sort of approach to this than than Amy's. And what

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Speaker 1: I would do is I would take the power five

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Speaker 1: plus Notre Dame. So that's you know, six, these six schools, right,

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Speaker 1: and I would say, Okay, you guys, you can do

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Speaker 1: whatever you want. You want to pay the players, fine,

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Speaker 1: you want to cheat, I mean you can, just you know,

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Speaker 1: just just it's a revenue sport. Treat them as employees,

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Speaker 1: you know, and do the same thing with a hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty basketball schools and then say to everybody else, look, guys,

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Speaker 1: you can't compete with these guys, so stop trying. You know,

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Speaker 1: if it will still call you a Division one, but

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Speaker 1: you'll oper and you'll still give scholarships, but you'll operate

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Speaker 1: more like Division three, where where you know you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have your own your own championship and and and your

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Speaker 1: students truly will your athletes will truly be student athletes,

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Speaker 1: and it'll be a different It'll just be a different deal.

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Speaker 1: Um and and then the Wayne States of the world

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Speaker 1: and the Eastern Michigans will stop trying to chase the

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Speaker 1: Michigans of the world and they can you know, they

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Speaker 1: won't be stretching, they won't be playing games against Clemson

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Speaker 1: where they're they're supposed to get beat seventy five to

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Speaker 1: three so they can get enough money to fund their

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Speaker 1: athletic department. You know, just change the system that way.

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Speaker 1: I gotta ask. That's that's I understand where you're coming from.

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Speaker 1: It sounds harsh, though, because if you tell a Wayne

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Speaker 1: State graduate or alumni whatever that yeah, okay, yeah, don't

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Speaker 1: you really don't count. I just wonder if if that

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Speaker 1: would help a Wayne State generate money. Well, it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to generate as much money if it didn't, if

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Speaker 1: it wasn't stretching to to play big time college football.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'll give you another example, um um. Historically,

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Speaker 1: h the black colleges and universities, you know they used

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Speaker 1: to be Grambling used to be a pretty decent Division

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Speaker 1: one football team, right, but those days are long gone.

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Speaker 1: And those athletic departments have budgets of like fifteen million

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Speaker 1: dollars compared to you know two plus for Ohio State

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Speaker 1: to eart a million plus. And they raise a lot

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Speaker 1: of their athletic department money or a substantial amount from

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Speaker 1: playing these games against nationally ranked teams where they know

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Speaker 1: they're gonna lose by sixty points, they're going to be

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Speaker 1: completely overmatched, but they're gonna get a million dollar pay day.

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Speaker 1: So you know, how is that sort of less humiliating

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Speaker 1: than just acknowledging you know, this doesn't make sense for

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Speaker 1: us anymore as a university or even as an athletic department.

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Speaker 1: So what is this? Don't play the games now up

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Speaker 1: here in New England, you you know you're Europe In Boston,

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Speaker 1: there's a good example of there. Remember you mask it

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Speaker 1: used to be a college football powerhouse back when they

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Speaker 1: had a Division one Double A. Remember that. Then they decided,

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Speaker 1: then they decided for prestige reasons that they had to

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Speaker 1: become Division one. And it has been a disaster. It

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Speaker 1: has been a complete disaster. They lose money, people don't

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Speaker 1: come to the games. They're not any good, they can't recruit.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's dumb, and it doesn't do them

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Speaker 1: any good. And what I say is acknowledged that there's

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Speaker 1: two tiers. There's a tier of the Alabama and the

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame, you know, and then there's the tier there's

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Speaker 1: a tier below that that um that is never going

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Speaker 1: to compete with the Alabamas. And to just acknowledge, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a university, it's not a football factory. Just accept

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Speaker 1: that you're a university. Not such a bad thing. You

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Speaker 1: always deliver my man and I love the spirited debate

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Speaker 1: around the n C Double A. You know, I told

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Speaker 1: you offline, I said to you a message on the

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Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg that actually bought your book. Indentured for

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Speaker 1: my dad, who worked at a college recently, he's fascinated

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Speaker 1: by the n C Double A and one of the

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Speaker 1: things I was reminded of was so much of you

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Speaker 1: wrote about in that book a few years ago. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was super prescient in some ways, it anticipated a

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Speaker 1: lot of the debates were having now. But what has

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Speaker 1: changed and what have been sort of the twist and

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Speaker 1: turns from when you did the research for that book,

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Speaker 1: the reporting for that book, and where we are now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think there's two major changes. Um. The first is

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Speaker 1: that this has gone from being a niche a niche

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Speaker 1: debate um that just a small fraction of passionate people

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Speaker 1: cared deeply about, to being an issue that everybody in

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Speaker 1: the country has some opinion about one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: In other words, it's a debate that's gone mainstream, and

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Speaker 1: you can even see it in Congress, where you have, uh,

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Speaker 1: somebody like Chris Murphy and Connecticut who has actually put

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Speaker 1: out a series of reports on how college athletes get screwed.

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Speaker 1: It's really amazing. And then you have somebody else whose

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Speaker 1: name I can't recall, I'm sorry to say, but a

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Speaker 1: senator who put in a bill on name, image and

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Speaker 1: likeness rights that basically is uh copying what then would

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Speaker 1: like to have happened. So it's a bill that's terrible

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Speaker 1: for college athletes. But uh so, so you're seeing this

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Speaker 1: debate even taking place in the United States Senate. So

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Speaker 1: that's that's that's number one. The second thing that's happened

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Speaker 1: UM is that after the Obanon case that I wrote about,

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Speaker 1: where the A was declared to be in violation of

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Speaker 1: antitrust laws, but the remedy was very, very minimal, there

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Speaker 1: was a second case that came in right behind it

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Speaker 1: called the Austin case. Shaan Austin was West Virginia running

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Speaker 1: back and that case also went what was tried in Oakland,

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Speaker 1: California also went to the Ninth Circuit in California, and

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Speaker 1: also UM came out with the n c A being

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Speaker 1: declared an anti trust violator. So that's pretty clear by now.

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Speaker 1: But in that case they said that UM, while players

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Speaker 1: still shouldn't be paid you know, cash, they could get

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Speaker 1: any any benefit, including money that was quote unquote education related.

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Speaker 1: Now this is a whole that truck could drive a loophole,

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Speaker 1: So you know, the the the advocates for the players

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Speaker 1: were actually pretty happy about all of that, more or less,

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Speaker 1: but the n c A was so upset that they,

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Speaker 1: uh they appealed it to the Supreme Court, and the

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Speaker 1: big surprise is that the Supreme Court took the case.

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Speaker 1: So that case is going to be heard in the

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Speaker 1: spring and probably decided in the summer. And frankly, if

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Speaker 1: you're an advocate for players and you want to think

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Speaker 1: they should be paid, you're nervous. Uh six to three

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Speaker 1: conservative court. Uh, you just got to think to yourself,

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Speaker 1: the reason they took this case can't be good for

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Speaker 1: the player US. You answered this earlier. Out of the

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Speaker 1: four major sports, the NBA did it the best, But

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Speaker 1: which sport would you say I could have done a

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Speaker 1: heck of a lot better in their efforts, not only

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Speaker 1: with COVID but just trying to keep focused on the season. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's that's a little hard to say. I think.

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Speaker 1: I think. I do think that basketball, women's basketball, soccer,

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Speaker 1: and hockey all did a pretty good job. But they

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Speaker 1: were all allowed to be in that bubble. You can't

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Speaker 1: do the bubble and football and baseball, I mean football,

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Speaker 1: really football has sort of ignored COVID more than the

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Speaker 1: other sports. And I mean they even have a thing

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Speaker 1: if you've seen this where they you know, they have

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Speaker 1: two kind of injury lists. Now in football, they have

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Speaker 1: a regular injury list and then have a COVID injury list. Yeah,

426
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: if you play fantasy sports, you know exactly what keeps

427
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: talking about. Well, there are people who think that Cam

428
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: Newton's play has been you know, gone downhill, and they

429
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: there are some people who definitely think it's COVID related,

430
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: although he denies that. But I think football is the

431
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: one because it just it hasn't sort of faced up

432
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: to COVID. It's kind of just tried to ignore it

433
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: and make it go away as much as possible. And uh,

434
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: you know, just even that that situation where they had

435
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: that that Monday night was actually supposed to be a

436
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: Sunday night game that wound up getting played on a Wednesday,

437
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: the Steelers against somebody. So I would say football, but

438
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: but but on the whole, you know, I think the

439
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: pros have just done a relatively decent job and the

440
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: colleges have done a relatively miserable job. Steelers against Baltimore,

441
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: by the way, I think that's yeah, that's right, that's right,

442
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: against the Ravens, that's right. Joe was the turning point

443
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: for this explosion of Division one college football and filling

444
00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: their coffers. That can you trace it back to the

445
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: court decision, which you know really nailed the double A

446
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: and allowed teams to make the TV deals. We can

447
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: do that. And um, if if Walter Buyers, who ran

448
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: the n c A back then, hadn't been such a

449
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: stubborn old coup, this thing could have it could have

450
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: been settled and could have been dealt with in a

451
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: much more reasonable way. But because he refused, he was

452
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: all or nothing kind of guy, he got nothing. And

453
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: then then so that that that court case, the major

454
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: powers took the n c of court saying you can't

455
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: control our TV schedules. Don't forget back then, you know

456
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: you could get you get one national game and one

457
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: regional game and that was it. That you could only

458
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: be on TV twice until the until the balls that

459
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: that was the way it worked, and they said, we

460
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: want to be on TV a whole lot more. And

461
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: once they took that away from the n c a A,

462
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: once they had control of that, then all the money

463
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: flowed to them and they could see how much wealth

464
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: could be created through television. Don't forget also, back then, um,

465
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: most of these schools made their bulk of their money

466
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: from ticket sales. And it wasn't really until they broke

467
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: free from the n c a A on television that

468
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: they realized that the real golden goose was not people

469
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: in the stands, but the television contracts. And that's why

470
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: today you know, they can you know, they won't make

471
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: as much money, but they will still make money without

472
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: anybody in the stands. Yeah, absolutely well, and we've talked

473
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: about that with the A D of Rutgers and many others.

474
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: And you know, as someone who grew up with big

475
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: time college football down south, I think about the SEC

476
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: Network and all of the Big Ten Network and all

477
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: of those regional sports networks, of the conference sports networks

478
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: that really are about football more than anything. All Right,

479
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: in the minute we have left Joe No Sarah, what's

480
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: the Joe No Sarah plan for twenty one? Are we

481
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: going to see the shrinkneck Store on Apple? Are we

482
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: going to see a follow up podcast? You're working on

483
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: a book like What's Happy? Alright? So, first of all, yeah,

484
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: they're shooting. They're shooting the Shrink next door right now

485
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: in California with Will Farrell, Paul Rudd, and Catherine Hahn.

486
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: So very excited about that. I think it'll I think

487
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: it will air in the fall. Um And for those

488
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: of you who don't know what that is, first of all,

489
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: shame when you It was the number one podcast of

490
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Jonah Sarah hosted it. It has now been

491
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: turned into a movie that will, as he said, show

492
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: an Apple TV and so you have a few months

493
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: to get into it. Listen to it over the holiday anyway,

494
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: go ahead, Joe. And and then, um, I am working

495
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: on a book with Bethany McClain about COVID and the economy,

496
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: which will have nothing to do with sports whatsoever. Alright, well,

497
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: we won't have you to talk about that, but we

498
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: also know to your point, uh that you know twenty

499
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: one is going to be a huge year for college

500
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: sports and the future of the n c Double A

501
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: and the future of athletes and name, image and likeness

502
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: and all of those things. That's supreme court case. We

503
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: know what we're talking to you about that, and I

504
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: will be here to opine it a pine about it

505
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: on your show. We will can't wait, can't wait. Best

506
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: to you and yours, Jona Sarah. We really appreciate it,

507
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: so guys, Jones Sarah. I love talking to him. I mean,

508
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: a great way to to end the year in many ways,

509
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: because I do think that when you look beyond the

510
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: success of the n b A, the whatever of the NFL,

511
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: and I think that's still to be determined, we do

512
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: know that college sports is fundamentally changed, and as he said,

513
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: twenty one is going to be a massive year in

514
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: terms of how we look at college sports going forward.

515
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: Bar it is and I we have an old saying

516
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: at Detroit. My man brings it and I like that

517
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: enthusiasm and what he said about the you know, we

518
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: talk about Wayne State or you know, trying to play

519
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: Michigan whatever. I get exactly what he's saying. And I

520
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: wonder if one solution to that is kind of what

521
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 1: we do now. We rank the collegiate teams one through whatever,

522
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: and now you want to see people fight to get

523
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: on that one through list. Okay, let that be the

524
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: list that you're talking about. And then if you don't

525
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: make it, hey, you know you got to do something.

526
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: Let you. I mean, one take away clearly is it's broken,

527
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: like it needs to be fixed right absolutely, and this

528
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: is gonna come down to the haves and the have nots,

529
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: and I think it's going to get worse before it

530
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: gets better. He made a great, great point about some

531
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: of these non revenue sports being the training ground basically

532
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: for our Olympic athletes track and field or wrestling, swimming

533
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: and diving, which have been eliminated at many of We're

534
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: not talking like Division three schools. We're talking you know,

535
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: I gave Clemson as an example right off the top,

536
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: but there's been some other Cincinnati and uh, you know,

537
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: where are these athletes going to train now for for

538
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: the Olympics. While Stanford was the example that everybody points

539
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: to write, I mean that was such an Olympic breeding

540
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: grounded in many ways, and so you look at that

541
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: and I think we said this on the show earlier

542
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: in the year, sort of like Stanford can't figure this out.

543
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: I mean, what's going to happen? And we didn't want

544
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: to be in It feels better to be number one

545
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: than number five. I'll wear a number because of Mike.

546
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: We have a chance to go for three in a row.

547
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: Good numbers at a good time. And I's first started

548
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: wearing the number. I would just happy and floomberg. Business

549
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: of sports, the number of the week, all right, Mr Barr,

550
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: the final version, good lord number. We did not do

551
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,239
Speaker 1: this in your absence, by the way, because I don't know.

552
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: I just didn't want lynch you to embarrass me. Oh

553
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: and away we go. Costco. Uh, they are selling some

554
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: expensive sports memorabilia online. Now you can get a Babe

555
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: Ruth autograph baseball is going for about sixty four dollars.

556
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: What I want is there's a tie Cob autograph bat Yeah,

557
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: and I'll be fair at online at Costco for the

558
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: low low price of this number. And it's priced like Costco.

559
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: Now I should add that I think he signed this

560
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: in the forties, so that that's an important factor, because

561
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it was during his playing days. I

562
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: think it was in during the forties. But if you're

563
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: buying it at Costco, shouldn't you get like thirty of them,

564
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: that the whole thing and you get a roll of

565
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: toilet paper buying it in bulk? Now again, I'm gonna

566
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: say this, it's price just like you're at Costco. All right, Um,

567
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: so you said the Babe Ruth ball is sixty four thousand,

568
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: about sixty four thou dollars, tie cop, I'm gonna says, no,

569
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: it's thy Cob. I'm going like, uh, we'll just say

570
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: sixty four thousand for Babe Ruth, about sixty four thousand dollars.

571
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen to my words about sixty four thousand

572
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: dollars about I'm gonna sixty four thousand dollars. So there's

573
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: a help here. Okay, I'm gonna go like a hundred

574
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: and thirty five thousand. Well, I have to admit she's closer.

575
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: But Jason had the right idea. It's priced at a

576
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: hundred fifty nine thousand, nine hundred nine dollars and ninety

577
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: nine cents. Yeah, boy, yeah, So al right, well that yeah,

578
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: I guess that is so that's so, yeah, it's worth

579
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: that much more. I would think a Babe Ruth ball

580
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: would be worth more than a Tyco bat. Now, well,

581
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 1: the Babe Ruth ball is like I sit around, Actually,

582
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: sixty thousand. Can you get to the heart of why

583
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: is Costco selling that? That's a good question and I

584
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: and I was reading that again and I'm like, yeah,

585
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: why are you do I have my membership card? What

586
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: do we got to do? Exactly? I still think they

587
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: should be selling them in vault like a package right, Lynching.

588
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you get a ball, you get

589
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: a bat, you get you know, I don't know we

590
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: will we Willie kill her? My question is where do

591
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: you find these things? Every week? Bar? I mean, like

592
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: you know, we all surf the web and everything. Everything

593
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: you've come up with it. I've never run across any

594
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: of these things. Well, you can find it everybody, men

595
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 1: and women, right on the Bloomberg terminal. Nice nice plug.

596
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: Nice plug. That's just for the bosses right there. All right,

597
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: you've been listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We're

598
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 1: here each and every week at the same time, plus

599
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: online wherever you get your podcast. Catch those Mondays, Wednesdays

600
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: and Thursdays. I'm Jason Kelly. Find me on Twitter at

601
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly News. Happy happy holidays everyone, and I'm Mike Lynch.

602
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: You can follow me at Lynch WCVB. Happy holidays to everyone.

603
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: Happy holidays everybody. I'd sing, but then they throw me

604
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: off the air. Michael Barr on Twitter at Big Barn Sports.

605
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio

606
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: around the world. Happy holidays, everybody, Happy holiday holiday, Happy Holiday.