WEBVTT - How to Shift Your Emotions: Moving from Chaos to Clarity with Ethan Kross 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.520 I could elaborate on the dark thought that's running through 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.160 my mind and question why I'm having that thought in 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.360 ways that might really send me down the rabbit hole. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.119 Or I can shift my perspective and realize, hey, this 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.520 is part of how the brain works. It sometimes simulates 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:21.000 worst case scenarios that are unlikely and dark, but you 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:22.600 know it does that to help us feel better. 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.199 Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time, great thinkers 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.600 have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.879 like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.480 think ring true. And yet for many of us, our 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:48.600 thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.840 self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.480 have instead of what we do. We think things that 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.640 hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:03.240 just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.560 and creative effort to make a life worth living. This 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.600 podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.760 the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.360 What if I told you that everything you've been taught 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.880 about emotions, how to control them, avoid them, or even 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:27.040 embrace them might be too simplistic. Today, I sit down 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.480 with doctor Ethan Cross, author of Shift Managing your Emotions 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.800 so they don't manage you, to explore a different way 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.360 of thinking about emotions, not as enemies to conquer or 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.840 burdens to bear, but as tools that, when understood, can 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.240 actually work for us instead of against us. I've spent 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:51.920 years trying to navigate my own emotional landscape, sometimes avoiding, 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:56.680 sometimes over analyzing, often caught between the two. And if 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.880 you've ever felt like you're either suppressing emotions or them, 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.720 this conversation will give you a more nuanced, more effective 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.120 way forward. We'll talk about the myth of one size 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:12.919 fits all emotional solutions, why controlling your emotions isn't as 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.960 simple as we think, and practical tools what Ethan calls 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:21.160 shifters that help you move from emotional chaos to clarity. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.240 This is the one you feed. I'm Eric Zimmer, and 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.320 if you've ever wished for a better way to work 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.200 with your emotions, you don't want to miss this one. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:31.560 Hi Ethan, welcome back. 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.360 It's great to be back. It's been too long. 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.640 Yeah, I don't remember when it was, but I remember 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:39.240 your interview very well. And your book Chatter is one 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.400 that I go back to often because there were so 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.160 many really useful ideas in it, and your new book 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:48.639 lives up to it, right. It's great. It's called shift 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.720 managing your emotions so they don't manage you. And we're 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:54.520 going to get into the book in a moment, but 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.040 we'll start like we always do, with the parable. In 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.880 the parable, there's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.800 and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.280 of us that are always at battle. One is a 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.160 good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.000 and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.760 like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:17.920 think about it for a second. They look up at 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.320 their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? And 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.919 the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.320 to start off by asking you what that parable means 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.480 to you in your life and in the work that 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:29.839 you do. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.919 You know, the parable is so relevant to the theme 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.920 of Shift that we're going to talk about today. It's 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.960 really remarkable when I hear the word which wolf you feed? 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.760 What it raises in my mind, is the importance of 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:48.520 being really deliberate about how you engage with those different 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:53.640 forces in your lives, and not just haphazardly, you know, 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:57.160 kind of shoving nutrients down either one's throat depending on 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.760 what's available, but being pretty careful about what you shop 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.560 for and how you interact with them. Because one theme 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.200 of Shift, and a general point that I believe very 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.560 strongly in, is that when it comes to our emotional lives, 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:15.680 the two wolves, they're both valuable companions throughout our lives, 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:21.000 and we don't want to get rid of one. We 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.560 want to make sure that we are in their presence 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.240 for the right amount of time and in the right circumstances. 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.760 And so I don't actually want one wolf to win. 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.880 I want each wolf to know when they're supposed to 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.560 be there with me, protecting me. And protection I think 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.839 is relevant here too, because I think of emotions, all 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.159 of them as tools we use to navigate the world. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.560 All of them are useful when they're triggered in the 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:56.039 right proportions, not too intensely, not too gently, not too long. 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:57.960 They don't last too long, they don't last too short, 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.720 but in the right proportions, all of our emotions serve 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.520 a vital function, and I think the real challenge we 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.520 all face is to figure out how to keep our 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.200 emotions in that sweet spot zone where they're working for 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.159 us rather than against us. I think that is a big, 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:18.680 big problem we face on this planet for most of us, 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:20.800 and I think we've learned a lot about how to 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:22.160 solve that problem. 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.279 Yeah, and I think most people who've thought about this 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.560 very much, and I don't mean scientists like you, I 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.520 mean just average people who've thought about this very much, 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.479 realize that we can go to two extremes, right. We 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.640 can go to one where we're trying to push away 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.680 any emotion we don't want. You know, this is a 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.440 bad emotion, don't have it, avoid it leads to all 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.640 kinds of problems. And the other extreme where we just 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:50.680 let whatever emotion there is drive our lives. Neither of 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.480 those are ways that are useful, and your book is 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.240 a really good way of walking through what are some 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.200 strategies that allow us to take the best of what 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.320 emotions have to offer without getting the worst of what 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.920 they can offer if we let them completely run the show. 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.919 That's exactly right, great characterization. We should have contracted you 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.680 to write the book flap Copy. Yeah. I mean, like 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:18.640 we have this bias to think in terms of categories, 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:22.200 in terms of like white and black boxes, right, good 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:25.000 and bad. It's easy to make sense of the world 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.200 in that way, and we apply that way of thinking 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.200 reflexively to our emotional worlds too. There are good emotions, 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.600 are bad emotions. You should always strive to be positive 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.560 and not negative. Avoidance is always toxic. Be in the 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.960 moment all the time. No, no, no, no. It's a 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.760 whole lot more beautifully complex than that, and I don't 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.560 think that should scare us away. I think we should 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.039 embrace that beauty that is in the complexity. I was 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.599 just talking to someone else about our wonderfully diverse emotional lives. 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.880 I mean, Eric, do you doubt for a second that 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.800 your emotional experiences on this planet are unique from every 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:07.080 other human being in the sense of the unique combinations 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:11.040 of emotions you've experienced, when, in how you've experienced them, 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:12.120 and so forth and so on. 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.080 No, I think it's obvious that there are ways in 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.760 which you have an emotion. I can understand it because 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.960 I've had it, and vice versa, but varying degrees, and 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.840 when we get into talking about that there's more to 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.480 an emotion than just a feeling that there are cognitive 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:28.880 pieces that go with it, there are behavioral pieces that 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.840 go with it. Once you start introducing that level of complexity, 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.280 you're right. We're all different. And that's one of the 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.880 things that I love about this book, and that you 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.160 say it early and you say it often, which is 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.280 there are no one size fits all solutions to our 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.920 emotional problems. And I think that is really so important 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:50.560 and something that took me a while to fully really understand. 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.680 I think it is critically important, and I think it 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:58.400 is liberating. Is liberating for me to know that if 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.120 the tools that are working well for my buddies don't 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.440 work well for me, no problem. There are lots of 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.360 other things that I can do to manage my emotions. 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.760 I think it takes a lot of us some time 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:13.200 to understand that, because there's a seductive appeal to thinking 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.600 that there are one size fits all solutions, because that 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.960 would make things really easy. I mentioned this in the book, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:24.000 but we're governed by this law of least effort whenever possible. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.080 We're looking for the easy way out in life because 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.480 in terms of being an organism. It's easier for us 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:34.080 to conserve our resources, so easier is better. But I 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.200 think Einstein said this, we should fact check it, so 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.040 we'll give it to Einstein, but will allow for the 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:41.599 fact that someone else may have said it. It's this 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.880 wonderful quote. You should make things as simple as possible, 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:51.199 but no simpler. I mean, that's a deep, deep statement, right. 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.400 We should make it as easy as possible to manage emotions, 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.520 but let's not oversimplify to the point where we're actually 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:02.040 doing harm. I love using a metaphor of physical fitness 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.719 and exercise to really havem our home. Why this no 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.920 one size fits all solutions idea can be a lot 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:13.439 more intuitive than we think nowadays. Lots of people exercise. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.280 It's kind of normative to stay in shape for one's health. 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.760 If I look in my social circle at the different 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:27.079 ways my close friends exercise, all of us have different routines. 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.720 We're all doing different kinds of things, and even within 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.880 the kinds of exercises that we are engaged in, let's 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.280 say it's weight training, there are lots of different exercise 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.200 that we use us. I don't go to the gym 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:44.400 eric and curl dumbbells to make my biceps bigger for 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.280 forty five minutes straight. That would not make any sense, right, 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.800 That would be silly. But that's using one exercise to 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.720 achieve the goal of being mentally fit. Why would we 0:09:55.760 --> 0:10:01.160 think that one exercise, meditation, being in the moment, talking 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.839 to other people, whatever it is, choose your favorite, would 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:08.320 likewise help us be emotionally fit. Given how complex our 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.280 emotional lives are, it doesn't make sense to me. And 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.520 the data demonstrate that there are no one size fits 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:19.559 all solutions. So I say embrace it, and embracing that 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:20.880 should be liberating. 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.080 I agree. I've been thinking about this idea recently of 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:29.600 the sort of testimonial. I'm from a twelve step program, right, 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.760 and you know the testimonial is part of it. Right. 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.400 I got sober, I did this, this is what worked 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:39.080 for me. Or I had emotional problems and I started meditating, 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.760 and Boyett did all these things for me. There's benefit 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.480 in that. But I've been thinking lately about the people 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.480 who hear that message and that thing didn't work for them, right, 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.200 And what does that do to them? And if you 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.680 don't have the mindset that you're saying, which is simply, oh, 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.760 that thing may not work for me. It may have 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.679 worked for Eric, but it may not work for me. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.160 But something else will we go searching for it. If 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.160 we don't have that mindset, we can foundly discouraged and 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.640 begin to think there's more wrong with us, because well, 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.440 it worked for these guys, it's not working for me, 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.560 what's wrong with me? And I think our desire to 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.360 share what worked for us comes from a good place 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.520 because it worked for us and we're excited about it. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.760 But we've got to be careful because it doesn't land 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:25.360 on everybody in the same way. 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.920 You got it one hundred percent. I mean, you perfectly 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.120 characterized it. I mean, let me give you some data 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.439 that's hot off the presses, so to speak, even though 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.839 I guess it will be published in an actual physical 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.480 journal soon. So we did these studies during COVID. Took 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.679 us a while to finish analyzing them, but what we 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.160 wanted to look at was what are the tools that 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.280 are helping people manage their COVID anxiety from one day 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.800 to the next. What are the tools that are really 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:57.520 moving the needle on people's anxiety. And what we found was, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.240 I think phenomenally interesting. Each day we would ask people 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.320 to rate their anxiety and also to indicate which of 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.360 a slew of different healthy and unhealthy tools they use, 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.439 and we covered a very broad space in some ways 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.120 scaffolds onto the tools I talk about and shift. What 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.680 we found was there were tools that help people, but 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.120 there was enormous variability. So number one, most people in 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.520 general didn't do one thing to help them feel better. 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.040 They did like between three and four different tools each day, right, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.040 so they're not just curling dumbbells for their biceps, are 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.400 also doing chest press and running and sit ups. But 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.320 what we also found was there was a lot of 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.800 variability between the tools that worked for one person and 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.200 the tools that worked for another person, so much so 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.840 that it was like virtually you couldn't predict the unique 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.320 combinations of tools that would work for any one person. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:55.439 We also saw variability across days, So the three or 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.280 four things that worked for you on day one were 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.040 different from the four there are five things that you 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:05.240 did on day two. And so this just makes this 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.400 point that, gee, if we're looking for single shot solutions 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.320 that are working for everyone across the board, we're very 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.400 likely to not be successful. 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.679 I remember this conversation clearly in a twelve step meeting, 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.040 and people will get fundamental or dogmatic about anything, and 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.120 people get fundamental and dogmatic about twelve steps. And somebody 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.080 was saying, like, look, it's like a recipe. You follow 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.280 the twelve steps, you get this. You know, it's like 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.800 cooking brownies, you get the thing you find. I said, 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.720 people are not brownies, for God's sake, Like, I think 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.280 we're a little bit more complex than a brownie, and 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.120 even a brownie. I could give you five variables that 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.959 could play into how that brownie comes out, on the 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.480 hardness of your water and the temperature and the humidity 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.600 and as you're oven calibrated, and even on a brownie. 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.679 So I clearly feel strongly about this. 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.200 Let's pull that threat at step further because I feel 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.160 strongly about it too, And I think this is just 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.560 such a critical important issue because I think if we 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.640 get this part right, learning about the different tools you 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.480 know comes easy. You're motivated to do it. You're talking 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.079 about a brownie, and I think most people who are 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:14.360 brownie connoisseurs, of which I consider myself to be one, 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.319 and by that I mean I love brownie's and I've 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:21.160 sampled many There's huge variability and how tasty a brownie is, 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.560 and that variability is determined in part by the ingredients 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.720 that compose the brownie and how skillfully they are assembled, 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:33.120 as well as the taster and the unique taste buds 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.520 that they have and how they process those, you know, 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.840 brownies that they're trying. You want to tell me that 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.840 an emotion is on the same level as a brownie 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.840 in terms of complexity, right, Like, come on, right, think 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:53.400 about how unbelievably distinctive our emotional lives are. It's not 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:59.000 just that we are experiencing the anger and anxiety and sadness. 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:03.600 Those that we're using capture a whole different slew of 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:08.560 different emotions, of various gradations that differ from one another 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.800 and in slight ways that may be meaningful. We also 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:16.600 often experience emotions that are blending together. You know, yesterday 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.239 some good news came in and there was this opportunity 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.760 that I was really excited about came out of nowhere, 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:27.480 and I was initially elated, and then the elation was there, 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.080 and then I had this recognition of what I had 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:34.840 to do during this engagement, like oh no, and now 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.640 I'm like overcome with dread, right, and then I go 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.760 back and forth. So now we're having a mixed emotional response. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.040 There's such complexity here, so yeah, it just doesn't make sense. 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.040 I think when you break it down that there'd be 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.600 this single solution. So let's embrace it. And once you do, 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:57.640 it naturally motivates you to try to understand, well, what 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.040 are the different tools and how do they work? And 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.760 let me start trying to figure out what are the 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.400 regimens that work best for me. You go to a gym. 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.320 Step one is you learn about how all of the 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:12.200 different apparatus work. Right, one of my daughters, my youngest daughter, like, 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.880 first time she comes with me to a gym and 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.880 a hotel on a holiday, it's like, what is this 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.960 you look at? You have no idea. Step one, learn 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.760 how everything works. Step two, now, let's see how you 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.600 can start incorporating these different exercises into your life in 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.080 a way that allows you to achieve the goals that 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.680 you have. That's what this is all about. 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.360 Wonderful. I think that's a good segue for us to 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.520 move on to getting us closer to what those tools 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.480 or as you call them, shifters are but before we 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.040 do that, I do really think we need to talk 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:52.360 a little bit more about what emotions are. You reference 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.800 in the book that there's no shortage of theories on 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.320 this right, there's well over at least half a dozen 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.920 different theories of what emotions are. But you do go 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.360 on to say, here's some things that we can sort 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.040 of agree on. Walk me through when we're talking about emotion, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:08.639 what you're talking about. 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.800 So when I'm talking about emotions, first thing to recognize 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:16.040 is I think that emotions are tools. They are responses 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.720 to things that happen in the world around us or 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.320 in our minds. When we think about the world that 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.240 we think about things that are meaningful, they elicit these 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.879 different responses, and those responses that are elicited, these emotions 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:36.600 are typically activated to help us manage the situations we 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.680 are in. You can think about emotions like little software 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:44.119 programs that are getting loaded up to help you deal 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.359 with the situations you're in. And emotions an umbrella term 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.399 because when you experience an emotion, it activates what we 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.639 call a loosely coordinated set of responses. So your body 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.880 starts to react in a certain way. When you're anxious, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.560 you might experience this fight or flight response. Your attention 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.280 narrows on the threat at hand, so you could zoom 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.199 in on it. You may have a particular kinds of 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.360 motor behavior. So if we stick with anxieties, example, crunching 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.160 is often an example of that, and it's also visible 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.760 to other people. Why might that be Well, we're a 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.600 social species, and it can be useful to learn how 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:29.399 other people are feeling. That gives them information so that 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.720 they can respond accordingly, maybe to approach or avoid you. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:38.280 So if the emotion is calibrated properly, not too intense 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.000 or shallow, and not too long or short, it can 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.600 be very helpful, even the bad ones. And so I 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.920 like to point out how the bad emotions can be useful. 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.639 Anxiety helps you prepare for a threat. But you know, 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.400 when I think about the misses in my life professionally, 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:58.720 they're usually engagements where I wasn't at all anxious before 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:02.240 I had nothing motive me to prepare for them. Anger. 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.439 We experience anger when we perceive some violation of our 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:09.080 understanding of how things should be, and there's an opportunity 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.760 to fix the situation that elicits an anger response. So 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.520 if I see my daughters do something dangerous, I'm going 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.080 to get angry, and that's going to motivate me to 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:24.159 approach this situation and make sure it doesn't happen again. Sadness. 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.720 Sadness is one that some people often struggle to think 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.879 about how it can be adaptive. I think sadness is 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.680 kind of beautiful. We experience sadness when we encounter some 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:40.120 irrevocable loss in our life. There's some threat to our 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.199 way that we make sense of the world, and we 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:46.240 can't change this situation. So you lose someone you love, 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.359 you're fired. That has implications for how you think about 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.120 yourself and the world, and you can't fix it. There's 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:53.960 nothing you could do to get that person back. And 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.280 so what sadness does is it motivates us to turn 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.639 our attention inward, slow down physiological, turn our attention inward, 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.240 to start trying to do the difficult cognitive work of 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.720 now making new meaning given the circumstances at hand. And 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.680 we often withdraw to do that so that we could 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.080 spend time kind of reflecting on the situation. That can 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:19.280 be a little dangerous though. Right you're in a negative state, 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.639 you're going off alone, and so what evolution has also 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:27.120 gifted us with this sad response is typically a facial 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.600 display that it acts as a kind of lifeline or 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.760 alarm or signal. Is the word I'm looking for to 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.359 other people to say, hey, you know, check up on 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.480 me and don't kind of leave me hanging here by myself? 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:42.080 And what does that look like? Whenever I see my 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:46.800 daughters who strategically display that facial expression when I'm like, 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.119 you know, mad at them, it's amazing, Like it doesn't 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.160 matter if I know they're being strategic, I feel bad. 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.480 I want to help them. And that's what that's doing, 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.560 It's drawing other people. And so those are three ways 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.560 that those negative emotions can be helpful. And that's what 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:05.399 emotions are. One little bit of editorial there. One question 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.320 people often have is what's the difference between a feeling 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:13.520 and an emotion. A feeling is the subjective component of 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.480 an emotional experience. It's the part of the emotion that 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.840 we are aware of. When you're experiencing an emotion, lots 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:21.639 of things are happening in your mind and body that 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:25.520 you have no awareness of. The feeling is what rises 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.880 to conscious awareness. It's akin to when you are physically ill. 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.320 Let's say you've got the flu. There are lots of 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.960 things happening with your immune system and your organs, and 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.960 you have no awareness of that, but you are aware 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:41.800 of the lethargy and maybe the fever and chills you're experiencing. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.760 The feeling is the equivalent of the fever in the shills. 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:47.520 That's how I think about emotion. 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:52.200 And so really what you're describing is it sounds like 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:54.800 there's a few things. There's the what's going on in 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.639 my body, There's what's going on in my mind, what 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:02.760 I'm thinking about right that you bust is despite common thinking, 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:07.840 emotion and thought are not necessarily separate things. They're intertwined, right, 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:10.800 They're intertwined, yes, and then there's a behavioral expression. So 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:13.439 those three things, and it sounds like you almost just 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.760 added a fourth, which is the received sense of what 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:19.560 all this constellation is. 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:24.440 Yeah, like how it all comes together often is part 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:25.280 of our awareness. 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:27.720 Yep. Yeah, I didn't have as good as terms, but 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:29.880 I used to teach this idea of what I would 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:32.639 call sort of an emotional storm, and the point was 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:35.920 you're going to have physiological feelings, there's going to be 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:39.080 drive to do a certain thing, you're going to have 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.480 a physiological reaction. And then there's the thing that you 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.439 typically might call the feeling itself, what you call sad. 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.359 What the meta experience of all that together. 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:50.600