1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 2: Did a missing TV anchor have a secret fling with 3 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: a mystery man just before she disappears? Clues left behind 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: a hair dryer and a pair of red high heels. 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: you for being with us. 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 3: We never, you know, anticipate anything like this ever happening. 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 3: We thought Jody would be safe in Mason City. It 9 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 3: wasn't that big of a community, and she just she 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 3: took a lot of safety courses and stuff, and she 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 3: she was careful, she really was. She wanted to have 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 3: a good reputation in the community. And yeah, we were 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 3: just stunned. We were on a bus trip up north, 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: my mom and aunt just oh with the group of ladies, 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 3: you know, and we were going to this casino. 16 00:00:59,320 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 4: It was going to be. 17 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 3: Any and so we were up in Walker, Minnesota, and 18 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 3: then they asked us to come to the room when 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 3: we got there and that there was an emergency phone call. 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 3: It was shortly after we arrived, and so we came 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 3: in and they said it's from Mason City and roy away. 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 3: My mom said, oh, no, Jody, and we thought maybe 23 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 3: she'd been in a car accident, that's right, and she'll 24 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 3: be okay. 25 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 2: Jody Hugh's in truth seemingly vanishes in thin air. 26 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: All the left behind a few clues, a pair of 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: red high heels, a hair dryer. 28 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: Signs of potentially a scuffle near her car where she 29 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: parked at the studio. Typically she had an early early 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: morning shift on air, but she never made it. What 31 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: happened to Jody? Just then, you were hearing Jody's sister 32 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: describing going on an all girls trip to a casino 33 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: when they were told they had an emergency phone call, 34 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: and they went and we're told something has happened to Jody. 35 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: They naturally, oh, dear, there's been a car accident. But 36 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: there's more. 37 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: Listen. 38 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 3: Halverson said, oh, she's missing, Joanne, are you sitting down? 39 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 3: And I said missing. Well, we'll find her, you know, 40 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: there's some mistake. Why would she be missing, you know. 41 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 3: But then we got pretty nervous and about it all, 42 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: of course, and we left. They provided a vehicle for 43 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 3: us to go back to Long Purrie. They brought us. 44 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 3: It was quite a drive too, but yeah, it was 45 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 3: very hard. And then we got back and nobody had 46 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 3: found her, you know, by the end, of the day, 47 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: and so then we were getting very worried, but we 48 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: thought it'd be that it was some kind of a mistake, 49 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 3: that she would be found and she'd be okay. 50 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: What happened to Jody? First, I want to go out 51 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: to former Angler reporter k I M t is the 52 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: station where Jody was on air, Tarah Getman joining us. Tarah, 53 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: thank you so much for being with us. What do 54 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: you recall around the time that Jody disappeared? 55 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 5: Everybody that was a close friend of hers had to 56 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 5: put on their journalists had and cover the abduction and 57 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 5: disappearance of their friend. It was a very bizarre time. 58 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: I'm thinking through what could have happened to Jody, who's 59 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: in truth this as we were learning about claims she 60 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: had just started a fleeing with a mystery man just 61 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 2: before she goes missing. But what facts are actually left 62 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: behind at the scene. Tarah Getman joining us, formerly reporter 63 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: kay I Empty Where Jody worked? 64 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: What time of the day or night it was Jody 65 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: on air? 66 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 5: She was a morning news anchor at the time, and 67 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 5: it was not uncharacteristic of her to come into work 68 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 5: running late. You know how that goes for those morning 69 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 5: shifts in small town TV networks or markets. Rather, so 70 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 5: the producer was not incredibly alarmed when Jody never showed 71 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 5: a bit and jump into the role of filling in 72 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 5: for Jody, so as we know when you're under resourced 73 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 5: in those small market newsroomly so, there just was not 74 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 5: a sense of urgency, knowing that was so rare for 75 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,799 Speaker 5: something like this to happen, that a lot of time 76 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 5: was lost where the police weren't called until ultimately about 77 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 5: four hours after she was potentially abducted, joining me. 78 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: High profile lawyer and prosecutor Wendy Patrick. She's the author 79 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 2: of several books, Red Flags, Why Bad Looks Good, and 80 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: Reading People, Wendy. Jody had to be at work at 81 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: six a m. Now, listen to this that morning she 82 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: actually spoke to a producer on the phone and said 83 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: she would be there in time for the six am broadcast. 84 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: So when we're saying morning shift. 85 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: A lot of people think of a nine to five, 86 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 2: nine o'clock in the morning. No, she had to be 87 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 2: on the air at six am, which means she probably 88 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: had to be in the studio somewhere in the building 89 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: by four to be in here in makeup, to read 90 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: everything she had to read to know about what had 91 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: happened that morning in the news and the overnights she 92 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 2: had to get there. I would say around four am 93 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: to prep. So when we're hearing about the morning shift, 94 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: what does that mean to us? Wendy Patrick evidentiarily it 95 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 2: means she's up around two thirty or three in the 96 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 2: morning in order to get to work by four. There's 97 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: nobody around the streets. Everything is dark in a less 98 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 2: populated area. 99 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: There may not be street lights. 100 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: There's nobody idling at a red light or an intersection. 101 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: They're no witnesses, That's what I'm getting at. And a 102 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: largely abandoned parking lot. It's not like you're pulling into 103 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: Kroger at high noon where it's packs right, there's nobody there. 104 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 2: So getting to her car, getting in her car, getting 105 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 2: to the station, getting out of her car, going into 106 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: the station. For a stalker, this is prime hunting time 107 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 2: because nobody is around, right. 108 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: But that leaves me a little. 109 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: Bit further, Wendy, go with me, and then I want 110 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: to hear your analysis. Who and the hay would be 111 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 2: up at that time of the morning other than somebody 112 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: that was stalking her. 113 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly the way I was going to tie 114 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 4: it up. Thank you for that. Yet, you think about 115 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 4: who would basically keep those types of hours. It would 116 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 4: have to be somebody that not only knew that Jody 117 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 4: was on at six, but also knew the routine involved 118 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 4: to be on at six. Unless you're in the business, 119 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 4: sometimes people underestimate the amount of prep time, the time 120 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 4: it takes to drive somewhere. But Nancy, there's more to 121 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 4: this particular story that struck my eye. She overslept, so 122 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 4: she wouldn't have been walking to her car at the 123 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 4: time she normally did. In addition to that, the lighting 124 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 4: would have been different. So there's a couple other factors 125 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 4: that make this morning different. 126 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 6: Okay wa wa white wait wait wait wait wait, okay, 127 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 6: hold on, I'm with you in that she overslept, but 128 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 6: she was alive that morning. 129 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: But she spoke to the producer and said she would 130 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: be there in time for her six a m. Broadcast 131 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: and to be on the air. As you well know, 132 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: you don't just show up a minute, five minutes, ten 133 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: minutes before you go on air. It's a process. You've 134 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: got to be prepared and ready. You have to read 135 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: your scripts, if you're someone that has to have scripts, 136 00:07:58,160 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: you've got to read the news. You've got to be 137 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: with your research. You've got to know the game plan, 138 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: the drill for the production. You don't just come and 139 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: flop down in a chair and start talking. It doesn't 140 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: worry that way. So when you say she overslept, she 141 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 2: assured them should be there in time to make the 142 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: six am hit, right, which means she would have been 143 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: there by at least five. 144 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: But we know she was alive that morning. 145 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: So when you're saying she was late, who was talking, 146 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: Whoever was talking her, wouldn't have seen her come out. No, 147 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 2: I guarantee you they were perched somewhere waiting, and they 148 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: may have been ill. They may have looked at their 149 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 2: watch a couple of times. But what you're saying the 150 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 2: kidnapper was inconvenience, You know what, I know what I'm 151 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: he and I guarantee it's some man waited on her. 152 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 3: Right. 153 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,359 Speaker 4: What I'm saying is, if you do have that mindset, 154 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 4: whether or not the routine is deviated from even by 155 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 4: a little bit, you're gonna wait. If you are there 156 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 4: and that's your intention, you're going to wait it out 157 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 4: and whenever she comes out, you're going to be ready. 158 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 4: But let me also say that the small town aspect 159 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 4: of this crime also caught my eye, because sometimes people 160 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,119 Speaker 4: are more situationally aware in areas that are notoriously dangerous. 161 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 4: This wasn't an area that was notoriously dangerous. Small Town 162 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 4: atmospheres often mean familiarity breeds complacency in some sense. You 163 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 4: have the same routine every morning, your guard tends to 164 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 4: be down, nothing has happened so far. You do the 165 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 4: same thing in the same way. You walk across the 166 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 4: same parking lots, you take the same route. That can 167 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 4: be dangerous if you have a stalker like this gorgeous 168 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 4: young woman might have had, who is able to easily 169 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 4: learn the routines that she has become so comfortable with. 170 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 171 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: You know, it's curious even now, the population is below 172 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 2: thirty thousand in this area Mason City, Iowa. But at 173 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 2: the time that Jody, Who's in truth, went missing, the 174 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: population was in the mid twenty thousands that year, right, 175 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: And that means so much forensically joining me in addition 176 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 2: to Wendy Patrick really a prolific author and instructor and 177 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: Tara Getman, who worked at the same station as Jody 178 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: Hou's in trut Steve Ridge is with us private investigator extraordinary. 179 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 2: You're very well versed in the disappearance of Jody Houston truth, 180 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: Steve Ridge. Just a four mile a distance between where 181 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: she worked at the station and her apartment, just four 182 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: point one miles she had to drive in the morning. 183 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 2: That's less than a five minute drive at three o'clock 184 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: in the morning. 185 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 7: Steve, that's right, And I think you're also right that 186 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 7: someone was perching and waiting. There is no doubt, based 187 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 7: on the work that I've done on this case five years, 188 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 7: that there was an individual that intended to confront Jody 189 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 7: that morning. And we don't know whether the confrontation was 190 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 7: meant to be an abduction or not, but it certainly 191 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 7: turned into an abduction. 192 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that, Well, I think this. 193 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 7: Is a crime of jealousy. If you want me to 194 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 7: kind of cut through where I am on the case 195 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 7: at this juncture, I think there's little doubt that the 196 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 7: individual that did this had asked personal aspirations of a relationship, 197 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 7: long term relationship, and had been rebuffed along the way, 198 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 7: and was determined. 199 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: Hold on just a moment. Hold on, you've got me 200 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 2: drinking out of the fire, hyd gest. Steve Ridge is 201 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 2: a very well known private investigator, and he sees the 202 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: fingerprints of a rebuffed mail all over this. I'm very 203 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: curious about your thinking joining me, Doctor Jeff Klashwski, and 204 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: I'm not disagreeing with Steve Ridge at all. I'm intrigued. 205 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 2: I want this case solved like everybody else. Doctor Jeff Klishevski, 206 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: forensic psychologist. You can find him on YouTube a doctor 207 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: Jeff Kalishevski, forensic psychologist. Doctor Jeff explain to me why 208 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 2: this has the hallmarks of a stalker, and how a 209 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: kidnapping by a stalker would then be exacerbated and escalated 210 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 2: into a potential murder. And if you really want a 211 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 2: relationship with a woman, why would you confront her outside 212 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: of her car when she's trying to dash in. 213 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 8: Well, a couple of things here. I know a lot 214 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 8: about this case. I was a graduate student at the 215 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 8: University of Iowa when this happened, so I followed this 216 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 8: case over the years. One thing that strikes me my 217 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 8: knowledge of the case is there wasn't a lot of 218 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 8: overt eye obvious evidence left behind. So not that I 219 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 8: would disagree with Steve, but I wonder and I think 220 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 8: about this as obviously a very well planned and well 221 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 8: executed abduction, and I would argue that this was probably 222 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 8: done by someone who's done something like this before, rather 223 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 8: than an impulsive act by a deranged fan. 224 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 9: Jody was at her car and it appears that she 225 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 9: was attempting to put the key in the door lock 226 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 9: to open the door to her car when she was grabbed, 227 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 9: more likely from behind, because there's indications or the key 228 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 9: that she had was bent, which tells me that she 229 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 9: had to keep in the door lock when she was grabbed, 230 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 9: So the force of somebody grabbing her pushed her towards 231 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 9: the front of the car, possibly and bent the key. 232 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 9: The driver's side on the door was also bent forward, 233 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 9: and again that indicates there's a struggle taking place and 234 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 9: the perpetrator has grabbed her and has taken her towards 235 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 9: the front of the car away from her apartment building. 236 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: So what do we know. 237 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: The driver's side mirror on the door was also bent forward. 238 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 2: That indicates a struggle taking place outside of Jody's car. 239 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: Does it suggest the perpetrator grabbed her and was taking 240 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: her toward the front of the car and away from 241 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: her apartment building. 242 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: What more do we know the key, the key to 243 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: the car was bent. 244 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: Back to Steve Ridge, private investigator who has closely studied 245 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: Jody's disappearance, tell me the significance about the key, Well. 246 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 7: I think it's clear that the key was at least 247 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 7: partially engaged in the door, or that it was all 248 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 7: the way in the door lock, and that as the 249 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 7: individual spun Jody or her hand came out and the 250 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 7: force of her body being moved upward toward the rear 251 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 7: view mirror would have potentially bent that key and then 252 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 7: dropped it on the ground. 253 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 2: But would you agree, see Ridge, And I'm not saying 254 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: that's not how it happened, but the key could have 255 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 2: been bent in any number of ways. 256 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 7: That's true. Although I think having gone through this in 257 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 7: great detail and looked at where all of the other 258 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 7: items were found laying and the bent mirror and a 259 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 7: palm print that was found on the car, you know, 260 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 7: we've come to the conclusion that it probably was bent 261 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 7: partially while it was engaged in the lock. 262 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: Question where on the car was the palm print? 263 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 7: Steam it was behind the This is a small Masdamiata 264 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 7: with just a single door, and it was just behind 265 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 7: the door on the upper part of the car. So 266 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 7: it was in an area. 267 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: Where oh no, wait wait wait wait, wait right, wait. 268 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: Wait, okay, we've got a Miata, which, yes, is small. 269 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 2: When you say a single door, there's a single door 270 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 2: on either side on each side, and you're saying it 271 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: was above that on the driver side. 272 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 7: Well, it was actually behind the door on the upper 273 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 7: panel of the car, so more in the area where 274 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 7: you would typically see a side gas tank mounted on 275 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 7: a car. 276 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: That's more the reason on the driver side is my question. 277 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: That's correct, Yes, you know all those things together. I 278 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 2: don't know if you agree with me or not, Wendy Patrick. 279 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: I think he's right. I think Steve Ridge is right. 280 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: And the reason I'm focusing on this so much is 281 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: I'm trying to determine who would have approached her on 282 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 2: her side of. 283 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: The car that early in the morning. What do you 284 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: make of those clues. 285 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 2: We've got the key bent as if it had been 286 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 2: put in the in the car door. That makes sense 287 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 2: to me, because a human could just bend it had 288 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: to be in that lot to be pushed forward. You 289 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: had to have some mechanical force to actually bend the 290 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: key to the car. Then you've got the side mirror moved, 291 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: and then you've got an unknown palm print. 292 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what that really means. 293 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: Anybody could touch the car, but all of that being 294 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 2: at the driver's door is significant, Wendy. 295 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 4: It is significant, and it also is significant as to 296 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 4: how fast this might have happened. When you figure out, well, 297 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 4: how were we even going to start a search for subjects? 298 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 4: The first question is would it have been somebody that 299 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 4: she knew that would have approached her in that fashion 300 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 4: and that quickly to have been the key to have 301 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 4: been the mirror to have caused the dynamics of that 302 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 4: car that appear to be more like a stranger rushing up, 303 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 4: And then where did he come from? So the fact 304 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 4: that this occurred on the driver's side of the door 305 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 4: would also let investigators, which they obviously did, start looking 306 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 4: at the dynamics of what's the lighting like in that 307 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 4: in that particular parking lot, Where would they have come from? 308 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 4: Who might have seen something? This is way before ring cameras, 309 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 4: so they had some real old school, good investigatory techniques 310 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 4: that they could start with just looking at those clues 311 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 4: you've just mentioned. 312 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: And joining me now is a special guest, Tammy Baker, 313 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: a very dear friend a Jody's. Tammy, thank you for 314 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 2: being with. 315 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: Us, Thank you for doing the story. Tammy, tell me 316 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: your recollections of Jody. 317 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 10: I have so many great memor She was effervescent, She 318 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 10: was very, very smart, very driven, could be very nian, 319 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 10: which I sometimes reminded her that she needed to be 320 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 10: more cautious with people. She was just a lot of 321 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 10: fun and she was She didn't have a problem asserting herself. 322 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 10: It was one of the things that I was really happy. 323 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: Did you say she was naive? She was very naive, 324 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: yet very naive she was. 325 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 2: At the time that Jodie went missing. What did you 326 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 2: think happened? 327 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 10: You know, I had just spent the previous two weekends 328 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 10: with her and saw her on Sundays. When I got 329 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 10: home from work Tuesday evening, I had all these messages 330 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 10: on my machine. It said what happened to Jodi? And 331 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 10: I didn't know anything about it. So I went looked 332 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 10: watch the news and I just figured somebody grabbed her 333 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 10: because she was not the kind of person to be irresponsible, 334 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 10: and she wouldn't just take off. And this was before 335 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 10: knowing about the tati and the mirror and all that. 336 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 10: But it just didn't make any sense, and I just 337 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 10: I broke down immediately. I knew it was something horrible. 338 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 2: But what did you think had happened? What was your 339 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 2: immediate gut thought? Because Tammy, I found so often that 340 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 2: those closest to the victims, their immediate thoughts are typically correct. 341 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: What did you think had happened to her? 342 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 10: My first thought was that somebody grabbed her. My first 343 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 10: thought was that she was being stalked and at somebody 344 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 10: ambusher when she was on her way to work early 345 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 10: in the morning, because there would be no one around. 346 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: Guys, you were hearing Timmy Baker, Jody's dear friend who 347 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: was with her in the days leading up to her disappearance. 348 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: You know, Steve Ridge joining me private Investigator along with 349 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 2: Wendy Patrick, doctor Jeff and Tara Gettman. Steve, it does 350 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: have all the fingerprints, the earmarks of a sexual stalker. 351 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 2: And when I say sexual, I don't necessarily meane she 352 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 2: was in a sexual lifelationship. I mean someone that cared 353 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 2: enough to follow her to stalk her. That's almost always 354 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 2: someone you know. There are very few random stalkings. It 355 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: had to be someone willing to get up and be 356 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: in that parking lot at say three or four o'clock 357 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 2: in the morning, knowing her routine, who know her routine. 358 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 2: All of this leads to someone that knows her did 359 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 2: this to her. 360 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 7: I think there's no doubt that it was someone that 361 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 7: knew her, and that knew her very well. And I 362 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 7: can tell you, without getting a lot more specific, that 363 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 7: I have actually narrowed it down to one of four 364 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 7: people in total who I believe make that list if 365 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 7: you will. And that's why it's frustrating that people are 366 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 7: not coming forward to talk about what they know. There 367 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 7: are people out there that know more about this case 368 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 7: than have ever been shared. 369 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 11: What we know is there are a pair of red 370 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 11: high heels, which would seem to suggest that Jody was 371 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 11: likely wearing something with red or all read that day. 372 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 11: We don't know exactly. As far as we know, what 373 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 11: she was wearing has never been found. There is hairspray, 374 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 11: there is a blow dryer, there are earrings, so the 375 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 11: basics of what you would wear to go on the air. 376 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 11: What's missing is a bag that she carried it in. 377 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 11: We've never heard anything about whether that was located. Presumably 378 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 11: Jody did not run to her car carrying all these 379 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 11: things in her arms. Doesn't make sense. 380 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 9: So where is that bag? 381 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 2: To Wendy Patrick, joining US prosecutor and author of not 382 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: one but three books, including Red Flags, and I'm focusing 383 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 2: on that book of yours because out of all of them, 384 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: I believe that directly impacts on this case. But first 385 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: of all, since you're also a prosecutor, I want you 386 00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: to address the clues left behind the red she use, 387 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 2: the high heels, I'm very curious, the blow dryer, hairspray, 388 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 2: everything she would need to get ready to go on 389 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 2: the air. 390 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: But the bag is gone. What does all this mean 391 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: to you? Indy? 392 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 4: You know, when I first read it, I thought that 393 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 4: sounds like the signs of a struggle. That there would 394 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 4: have been a bag and there would have been some 395 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 4: kind of a tussle outside the car. But you would 396 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 4: have thought that would have created noise, and I would 397 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 4: have thought there would have been neighbors that would have 398 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 4: heard screaming or something that would have led them to 399 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 4: believe there's an act of struggle. Going on in the 400 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 4: parking lot. But because that wasn't the case, you wonder 401 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 4: whether or not maybe those were the items that were 402 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 4: taken without a bag. That was actually a thought that 403 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 4: I had, when in combination with the fact that she 404 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 4: was running late, that it wouldn't have been convenient to 405 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 4: just have everything nicely ready to go. But one way 406 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 4: or another, it also begs the question of you know, 407 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 4: this couldn't possibly be somebody that already knew her. It 408 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 4: sounded more like she was surprised and that these were 409 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 4: the items that were dropped at the last minute as 410 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 4: she struggled with an assailant. That's one of the reasonable 411 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 4: interpretations I think of that property that was scattered at 412 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 4: the scene. 413 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: And there's more. Listen, she was dragged easterly. 414 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 11: They saw marks in the silt, if you will, and 415 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 11: they believed that that's what happened, That she was drigged 416 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 11: easterly most toward Kentucky Avenue, which is the main road 417 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 11: going by the Key apartments where Jody lived. 418 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 2: So how could they tell how could they tell Steve 419 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: Ridge she was dragged in an easterly direction. 420 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 7: Well, it had been very rainy in that particular three 421 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 7: day period, there are quite a lot of rain. In fact, 422 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 7: it had actually canceled the golf tournament the day before 423 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 7: that Jody was to play in, and so it was 424 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 7: there was mud. Even in areas where there was grass, 425 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 7: it was wet enough that the heel of a person 426 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 7: being drug along the area would have made an indentation. 427 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 7: I believe that she was probably wearing tennis shoes or 428 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 7: some other type of shoe and was carrying not only 429 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 7: the bag over her shoulder, but she probably had those 430 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 7: high heels and the hair dryer in her arms and 431 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 7: was in a hurry, and those were the things that fell. 432 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 7: I think that she was actually abducted, that is, lifted 433 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 7: off the ground or drug with the bag still attached 434 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 7: up over her shoulder. 435 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 2: Meg Too, Jody's dear friend, Tamar Tammy Baker Tammy, what 436 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 2: does this mean to you? And yes, we're going through 437 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 2: it in a meticulous fashion. We're looking at every single 438 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: clue that's been left behind. What does it mean to 439 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 2: you that the items she normally carried in that bag 440 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 2: were strewn outside her car, that she apparently was dragged. 441 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: What does it mean to you? 442 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 2: Does it reinforce your opinion that she was being sexually 443 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: stalked by someone. 444 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 10: I believe that whoever it was came up behind her 445 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 10: and surprised her. But I also know from being out 446 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 10: with her on many occasions that if a stranger approached 447 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 10: her and said, I've seen you on air, I love 448 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 10: your show, she would always stop and talk to them, 449 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 10: and it didn't matter who they were or where we were. 450 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 10: And if a stranger, I've always thought it was a 451 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 10: stranger because someone who knew her routine would know that 452 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 10: something was wrong because she didn't leave at her normal time, 453 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 10: and a stranger who was just stalking who would. 454 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 2: Not know that, You know, Tara Getman, who former anchor 455 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 2: at the same station, KIMT. That's a whole nother layer 456 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 2: of JODI's disappearance. We keep saying it was a sexual 457 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 2: stalking either someone that wanted to be intimate with her, 458 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: had been intimate with her, had dreams of a relationship, 459 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 2: But in fact that she's on TV that changes things, Tara, 460 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 2: because so many people see you and can't imagine that 461 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: they've got a relationship with you. It doesn't necessarily mean 462 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 2: you've ever even met What about that? 463 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: Absolutely? 464 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 5: And as you know, Nancy, that TV News was appointment television. 465 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 5: Everybody in that community watched Jody. 466 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: They loved her. 467 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 5: The list of suspects was over two hundred because she 468 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 5: was popular, she was social, and everyone talked to her, 469 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 5: and so to sort out all of these fans, if 470 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 5: you will, was very challenging. Not to mention, we had 471 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 5: no formal structure for capturing tips that would regularly. 472 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 9: Come into the newsroom. 473 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 5: I can remember countless times fielding calls from somebody that 474 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 5: was at the Flying Jay truck stop in Omaha saying 475 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 5: they think they just spotted Jody. So it was very 476 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 5: challenging at that time with all of that information that 477 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 5: was flooding in with like a fire hydrant, with no 478 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 5: way to recording or turn it over to authority. 479 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 2: To doctor Jeff Klshwski joining US forensic psychologist on YouTube 480 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 2: at doctor Jeff Kalshowski forensic Psychologist, Doctor Jeff, that's a 481 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 2: whole other layer to finding the purp because typically this 482 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 2: does look like a sexual stalking someone that either does 483 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 2: or wants to have a relationship or reignite a dead relationship, 484 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 2: an intimate relationship. 485 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: That's what it. 486 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 2: Looks like, right, But I think we're discounting the fact 487 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: that This gorgeous young girl is on TV for the 488 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 2: entire morning. 489 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: People see her all around the region. 490 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: Do you know how many times female anchors have stalkers 491 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 2: they've never even met or spoken to? 492 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 8: Right, and again, what happens in this case is everyone's 493 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 8: coming in with all different theories because there's just not 494 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 8: a lot of obvious evidence. You've covered many abductions on 495 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 8: this show. I've seen abductions in my clinical practice. There 496 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 8: tends to be more evidence laying around. It gives you 497 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 8: better places to start and better questions to ask. In 498 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 8: this case, it's wide open, which from my perspective, really 499 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 8: leads me to start to think that how well planned, 500 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 8: how not much evidence was left behind, that this was 501 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 8: someone who sort of knew what they were doing. 502 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 12: About one quarter of a mile from the apartment complex 503 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 12: was searched along the river bank and out extending from 504 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 12: the river bank, and there were a number of heads 505 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 12: along the river bank. However, we have not confirmed whether 506 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 12: those would be something that we would follow up on 507 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 12: or not. We are back at the river bank with 508 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 12: the canines and we are going to to see if 509 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,239 Speaker 12: there is additional hits along the river. If so, we 510 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 12: will then load the canines into a boat and see 511 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 12: if we can do a grid search along the river. 512 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace Wendy Patrick, prosecutor and author. 513 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: I think that we have rushed to a judgment here, 514 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 2: and that is that the purpose has to be somebody 515 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 2: that knows her and is a sexual stalker. I'm not 516 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,239 Speaker 2: saying that's not true, but we have to open up 517 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: the field to other suspects since she's on TV every 518 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 2: single morning. 519 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. And you know, if 520 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 4: we narrow the focus too quickly, too early, then we 521 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 4: may miss clues that would be of enormous relevance if 522 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 4: we just kind of, you know, thought the big picture here. Yes, 523 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 4: she's on TV, lots of people will know her. It 524 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 4: doesn't need to be somebody that's pathological obsessed. It could 525 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 4: simply be somebody that knows her routine, maybe even lives 526 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 4: in the area or actually knows her socially. So when 527 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 4: we broaden the range of suspects to include all of 528 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 4: the above, it really allows us to think about other 529 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 4: avenues to go in determining who might have been there 530 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 4: that morning, who may have seen her within the last 531 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 4: couple of months, who may live in that area, and 532 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 4: it allows us to more objectively think about who are 533 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 4: we going to suspect. 534 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: For instance, a man twenty two years older than her 535 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: with a seeming fascination with her. 536 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: Listen. 537 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 13: John von Seize, a man twenty two years older than 538 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 13: Jody who's in Drew, develops a friendship with Jody. Some 539 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 13: suggest he has romantic feelings for Jody that she does 540 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 13: not reciprocate. Van Seis holds a birthday party for Jody's 541 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 13: twenty seventh birthday, and the night before her disappearance, he 542 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 13: invites her to come to his house and watch the 543 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 13: video from the party. Van Zeiz tells police and the 544 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 13: media he treats it's Jody like his own child, like 545 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 13: a daughter, but some of Jody's friends suggest Van Seiss 546 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 13: has deeper feelings for Jody. Van Seiss becomes a person 547 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 13: of interest to police. 548 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 2: He insists it is more like an uncle niece or 549 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 2: father daughter relationship, but that is not born out by 550 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 2: the facts. Listen. 551 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 11: His name is John van Seiss, he was twenty two 552 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 11: years older than Jody, and just two days earlier that weekend, 553 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 11: he and several of Jody's friends had gotten together in 554 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 11: northern Iowa to go on a water skiing trip. In fact, 555 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 11: she writes about him in her journal. The last thing 556 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 11: she writes about two days before she disappeared, talks about 557 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 11: what a great time she had with John van Seiss 558 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 11: her other friends Annie Cruz and Tammy Baker. So he's 559 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 11: an older friend who has spent a lot of time 560 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 11: with her in the last couple months before she disappeared. 561 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 2: You are hearing our friend Carolyn Lowe, investigative journalist at 562 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 2: Fine Jody dot Com Find Jody podcast to Tamara Tammy Baker. 563 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 2: Did you know about this guy John Van Siss. 564 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 10: Well, well, I was with Jody the two weekends prior 565 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 10: to her disappearance, and John was with us both. So 566 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,719 Speaker 10: you know, he was very protective of Jody. He loved her. 567 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 10: I mean, but everybody loved her. There was no way 568 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 10: to not love her. She was just a great one. 569 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 10: She was just a wonderful kind person. She was fun 570 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 10: She was funny, and I did not ever see anything 571 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 10: with him that indicated to me that there was an 572 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 10: obsession of any kind. We also went down and I 573 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 10: was sitting together. We stayed in the same house and 574 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 10: I was sitting and you know, with John and Jody 575 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 10: and some other friends, and I just didn't see it. 576 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 7: Well. 577 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: I believe he actually named his boat after her. And 578 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 2: take a listen to her sister. 579 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 3: I didn't know about the guy till this all happened. 580 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 3: She had mentioned to my mom. My mom cautioned her 581 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 3: that she was not really dating this guy, but he 582 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 3: was a friend, you know and stuff. And my mom said, well, 583 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 3: you better be careful because you know he might be 584 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 3: getting romantically interested in you. Oh, we're just good friends. 585 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 3: Jody would say, you know, and so but I after 586 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 3: hearing about after it all happened, we know that he 587 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 3: was quite obsessed with Jody. He wanted always be around her, 588 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 3: and he wanted to. 589 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 11: You know. 590 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 3: He said he even named his boat after her, which 591 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 3: was odd. And the friends knew that too. They cautioned Jody. 592 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 3: They said, Jody, are you sure that John isn't more 593 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 3: interested in you than you think? And it was just 594 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 3: very obvious that he that he has been, was very 595 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 3: interested in her. 596 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: Chelas asky. I will never forget. 597 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 2: Uh. I was working light. This is when I was 598 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 2: in the scene in building at time Warner in New 599 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 2: York that waiting for me late hours. I would work 600 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 2: at Court TV all day long, then go over and 601 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 2: do HLN headline news at eight o'clock. At nine o'clock, 602 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 2: very often guest with Larry King or help guest host 603 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 2: his show. So I wouldn't be getting off until late ten, 604 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 2: and then I would speak, talk to the staff, what 605 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 2: went right, what went wrong, and it'd be pretty late 606 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 2: before I would leave. 607 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: Little did I know waiting in the lobby all the. 608 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 2: Way from I Think, Oklahoma a guy with a suitcase 609 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 2: who wanted to work on our relationship. Unbeknownst to me, 610 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 2: he had been writing the public email line site for I. 611 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: Have no idea how long about our. 612 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 2: Relationship and had come all the way across the country 613 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 2: to meet and again work on our relationship. Well, I 614 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 2: was floored. What I'm saying is is not unusual. It 615 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 2: happens a lot, and that is just one instance. There 616 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 2: was another guy that showed up with. 617 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: Zip ties. 618 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 2: A fold or full of newspaper articles about myself and 619 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 2: another female colleague. 620 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: I wasn't special. 621 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,479 Speaker 2: So it happens quite often, and I'd like to find 622 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 2: out from you how that phenomena weighs into Jody's disappearance. 623 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: Then, on the. 624 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 2: Other hand, You've got a guy who names his boat 625 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 2: after her that Jody's sister says was obviously obsessed with her. 626 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,760 Speaker 8: Right, If we go with the idea of a stalker fan, 627 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 8: one thing that these folks do is they study the 628 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 8: person in depth, and if this stalker fan, for example, 629 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 8: is local, he may follow her, he may know her habits. So, 630 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 8: just like the examples that you provided, these people get 631 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 8: so wrapped up, sometimes actually delusional, believing that they have 632 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 8: a relationship with the celebrity that they're following, and they 633 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 8: can sometimes distort reality to the point where it becomes dangerous. 634 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 2: Also, we're learning that apparently she had a fling with 635 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 2: a mystery man Jutton, I'm not talking about Jean Vansiz. 636 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, he's never been named an 637 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 2: official suspect in her disappearance. He's voluntarily taken two polygraph tests. 638 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 2: He's taken a DNA test finger in PAM printing, which 639 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 2: would have ruled him out of that palm print on 640 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 2: her car on her Miata. He's now living in Arizona 641 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 2: and has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Who was the mystery 642 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 2: man to Tammy Baker? Any idea with whom she was 643 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 2: who she was seeing just before she disappeared. 644 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 10: You know that we were out at a bar in 645 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 10: clear Lake to the second weekend, the first of the 646 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 10: two weekends, and she did meet a guy, dark haired guy. 647 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 10: I mean, it's been so long, I don't remember more 648 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 10: than that, but I do remember that he was pretty 649 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 10: touchy feely with her when we were dancing. But she 650 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 10: told me, I mean, we talked all the time. We 651 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 10: went to Iowa City. We slept in the same bed 652 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 10: and talked all night. She would have said something, and 653 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 10: she didn't say anything about a guy at. 654 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: All, isn't it. 655 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,439 Speaker 2: She cops put the so called mystery man under surveillance, 656 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 2: even scooping up his trash to try to get possibly 657 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 2: a DNA print the street side garbage for examination. 658 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 7: Yeah, that's absolutely right. They did. And he confirmed for 659 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 7: me that he put his trash out and that the 660 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 7: police showed up early in the morning before the trash 661 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 7: pickup happened, and the police, you know, took that trash away. 662 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 7: He of so, did meet with them three times, went 663 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 7: through all their questions. He did not take a polygraph test. However, 664 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 7: they concluded that he was not involved other than perhaps 665 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 7: the fact that others may have known about this relationship. 666 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 2: There is a one hundred thousand dollar reward for information 667 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:29,399 Speaker 2: leading to the whereabouts of Jody Who's in truth. If 668 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 2: you know or even think you know anything about her disappearance, 669 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 2: please call an anonymous tip line six foe eleven zero 670 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 2: nine repeat six four one one one zero nine a 671 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollar reward. Nancy Gray signing off, good 672 00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 2: night friend Bo