1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye, 2 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as 3 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: always so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for 4 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 1: the man, the myth, the legend. Mr Max Williams. Who 5 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: there he is. There's our boy. There's our shining our 6 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: shining boy, saving grace of the show. We need to 7 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: get his face on a T shirt. We have heard 8 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: from you, folks, and that's what you demand. That's what 9 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: we're going to do. But first, uh, they called me 10 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: ben and no, this is one that this is one 11 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: we had some help with from our dear colleague, Mr 12 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: Gabe Louzier. Yeah, check him out on this day in 13 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: history class. And speaking of people whose faces belong on 14 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: a T shirt, this guy Tatomu Yamaguchi. He's the only 15 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: person to be officially recognized anyway, uh, to have survived 16 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: two nuclear bomb blasts. Two atomic bomb blasts. Kind of 17 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: a big deal. Yeah, you know, Uh, most people don't 18 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: survive the one. Uh, so Yamaguchi has beaten the odds 19 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: in terribly, terribly horrific times. You know, some two hundred 20 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: and sixty thousand people survived the atomic bomb attacks on 21 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War Two. But this guy, 22 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: who was a Japanese engineer, didn't just survive the first attack, 23 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: he survived the second, and perhaps most amazingly, he lived 24 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: to tell the tale. Uh. This is a bit of 25 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: a heavy subject, but it's a story that the three 26 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: of us thought must be told. Want to give a 27 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: big thanks to Jay Hemmings over on War History Online 28 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: because nol his headline kind of hit one of the 29 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: questions that I had immediately. Lucky or unlucky? The man 30 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: who lived through two atomic bombs? Yeah, it's true. I 31 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: mean it is. It is sort of like a monkey's 32 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: paw kind of scenario. It's like, would you rather survive 33 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: to atomic blasts than live to you know, see everyone 34 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: you love perish in those atomic blasts and then be alone? 35 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: Or is it better to perish with them? Uh, it's 36 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: a good question. I mean I think if you asked him, 37 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: I think he probably considered himself lucky. But it is 38 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: it is a sad story, um, and one that that 39 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: starts back all the way in UH nine August six 40 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: to be specific, when Yamagachi was twenty nine years old 41 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: and he was an engineer. He was actually getting ready 42 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: to leave Hiroshima at the time. The writing was on 43 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: the wall bad things were coming. Yeah, he was pretty young. 44 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: He was twenty nine years old at the time, and 45 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: he was on a business trip along with ninety day 46 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: three month business trip for his company, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, 47 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: and August six when the bomb drops. That was supposed 48 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: to be his very last day in the city, like 49 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: you said, and they were glad to go. He and 50 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: all his colleagues had spent the entire summer laboring over 51 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: designs for a new oil tanker, and he wasn't just 52 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: happy to be off work. He wanted to go back 53 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: home to his family because he and his wife had 54 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: just had a son who was an infant. So think 55 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: about that. You spend all summer like breaking your mind 56 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: and your heart over an oil tanker, and everybody listening, 57 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: you don't have to be a naval engineer to get this. 58 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: Deadlines are stressful, and we know that more than most. 59 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: So he he wanted to go see his kids, and 60 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: he was actually no from what I saw on the way, 61 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: Hemmings wrote, it is uh Yamaguchi literally almost got out 62 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: of the city. They were on the way to the 63 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: station when he realized, uh, he forgot some paperwork or 64 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: a travel stamp, basically hong ko. That's interesting. So is 65 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: this kind of like a passport. He's easy, he's traveling 66 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: within his own country. I'm interested in that. Why this 67 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: is a necessary thing. It's sort of like having a 68 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: driver's license or some you know, it's important. Clearly, it's 69 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: like everything. Oh man, there is a there's a great 70 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: retrospective on on these things called honko or incn um 71 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: forgive our Japanese we're not needed speakers. It's the it's 72 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: the signature stamp. You know, it's your personal seal. And 73 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people who moved to Japan from abroad 74 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: and spend time there have a have a crash course 75 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: in learning these things, because ideally you don't just sign 76 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: stuff with like a pen. You have to have this stamp, 77 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: this seal. So it was important. It wasn't like him thinking, oh, 78 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: did I leave the oven on in the kitchen or something. 79 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: He would have probably needed that to sign anything official, 80 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: or he would have to go get a new one made. 81 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: It's interesting because I'm looking it up, but it's it 82 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: seems like it's interchangeable with the signature. But I guess 83 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: if you're signing on behalf of another entity or a company, 84 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: then that's what it gets tricky. Perhaps. Yeah, And I 85 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: really want one learning about this because these beautiful fast 86 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: carved from I guess bamboo or any other than it 87 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: could be another kind of softer would um and you 88 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: you know, keep in a really nice, bespoken case. And 89 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: it really is kind of like a personal you know, 90 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: item that many folks would carry around with them all 91 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: the time. Um. Probably a little less crucial now than 92 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: maybe it was then. UM, But I'd be really interested 93 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: in seeing some of these and collections, and also the 94 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: idea of like forging one, you know, it's sort of 95 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: the equivalent of having like a royal seal. I guess. 96 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: But I'm sorry, we're getting so caught up in this 97 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: that I just think it's fascinating. But by the way, 98 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: Mitsubishi Heavy Industries it is Mitsubishi, UM. It is the 99 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: Mitsubishi that we know today. It's a company that obviously 100 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: makes cars. It's the division of of the Mitsubishi group. 101 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: Rather um, Mitsubishi Motors is the division that makes cars. 102 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: Mitsubishi Heavy is the division that makes what it sounds 103 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: like heavy machinery and equipment, uh, like an oil tanker, 104 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: which is what he had been working on. So he 105 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: realizes he's left his travel stamp at his place of work, 106 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: and so he has to go back and get it. 107 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: Around a fifteen in the morning, he's walking to the 108 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: shipyard to get that travel stamp when he hears the 109 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: sound of an aircraft hovering overhead and he looks into 110 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: the sky and he sees a B twenty nine bomber, 111 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: the Aola Gay specifically, and he sees a small object 112 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: being dropped attached to a parachute, and then the sky 113 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: is on fire. He described it later as seeing um 114 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: the lightning quote the lightning of a huge magnesium flare. 115 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: At least he he likened it to that. And this 116 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: is a guy that's you know, worked with these kinds 117 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: of chemicals, and he, you know, he knows what he's 118 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: talking about. He had just enough time reaction time to 119 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: to hide himself, to to cover himself, duck and cover 120 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: in a ditch. Um and that's when he heard the 121 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: sound that this, uh, this object that had split the sky. 122 00:07:54,400 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: Make Yeah. So for people familiar with this tragedy, the 123 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: Enola Gay dropped the bomb called little Boy, and it's 124 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: amazing that Yam and Gucci was not just that he survived, 125 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: but it's amazing that he was able to see this 126 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: happen and the shock wave that occurred. Shout out to 127 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: our pal Rachel Lance, the number one expert on underwater 128 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: explosions and explosions in general. The shock wave that occurred 129 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: was so powerful it sucked him out of the ditch 130 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,359 Speaker 1: that he was hiding in, and it spun him around 131 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: in the air and then threw him into a potato patch. 132 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: He would later learn that he was less than two 133 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: miles from ground zero, and we have his own words 134 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: from a interview he did with a British newspaper at 135 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: the Times. He said, I didn't know what had happened. 136 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: I think I fainted for a while. When I opened 137 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: my eyes, everything was dark and I couldn't see much. 138 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: It was like the start of a film at the 139 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: cinema before the picture has begun, when the blank frames 140 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: are just flashing up without any sound, and uh, you know, 141 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: for for at least a little bit, he's pretty sure 142 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: he's dead, and he's thinking, okay, this is what death 143 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: is like. He thinks he's crossed the mortal veil, just 144 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: to reiterate two miles from where the bomb hit. I 145 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: mean that it's just unheard of. It seems like he 146 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: would have been a goner. So for him to believe, 147 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: you know, to believe that he had, you know, obviously, 148 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: it's like it's a country with very deeply held religious 149 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: beliefs as well, so I could totally understand that happening. Uh. 150 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: And you mentioned the sound being utterly cinematic. Um he 151 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: he says to him, he says in an interview at 152 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: the Times, as he said, eventually the darkness cleared and 153 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: I realized I was alive. When the noise and the 154 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: blasts subsided, I saw a huge mushroom shaped pillar of 155 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: fire rising up high into the guy. It was like 156 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 1: a tornado, although it didn't move, but it rose and 157 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: spread out horizontally. At the top there was prismatic light 158 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: which was changing in a complicated rhythm, like the patterns 159 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: of a kaleidoscope. What a wonderful recollection that is. And 160 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: you can find more about that and and all that's 161 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: interesting article by John Kurosky. I just think that's a 162 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: very obviously horrific scene. That he's describing, but he describes 163 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: it with almost like a elegance, you know, he's I mean, 164 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: he's had luckily the time to think about this, and 165 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: this is one of the most horrible impactful moments of 166 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: his life and in the history of Japan. The sun 167 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: is blotted out. We said it was about a fifteen 168 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: in the morning. The sun is gone because of all 169 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: the dust and debris. There are pillars of falling ash. 170 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: Like you said, he physically sees the mushroom cloud. He's 171 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: just two miles away from debtonation. He is temporarily blinded, 172 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: thankfully it's temporary. The blast blew out both of his 173 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: ear drums. The left side of this body, there is 174 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: a question that I had had originally. The left side 175 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: of his body is charred, and he is like at 176 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: this point to be clear, if he had just laid 177 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 1: down from shock, he would have died almost certainly. Instead, 178 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: this man is able to crawl despite his grievous wounds. 179 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: He's able to crawl to a bomb shelter and someone 180 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: is able to assist him, and he gets medical assistance. 181 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: And then he finds out that get this, his co 182 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: workers that were supposed to leave the city also survived 183 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: Kuniyoshi Sato and Akira Iwanaka. They stayed in an air 184 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: raid shelter overnight as well, and they said, okay, guys, 185 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: I think we can all agree we need to get 186 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: out of town. We need to leave. We don't need 187 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: to have a meeting about it. It's just time to go. 188 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: So they get ready to go to Nagasaki. So they 189 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: make their way to Nagasaki. But it's not a sure thing, 190 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: right They somehow they heard. You know, if you've ever 191 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: been in an emergency situation, you know that rumors take 192 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: out a life of their own. And so these guys heard, 193 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: they overheard people saying the trains were somehow still running. 194 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: So they said, okay, we've got to make it to 195 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: the train station. And um, when they emerge from that shelter, man, 196 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine what greeted them. Just absolute havoc, chaos, 197 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: the walking dead. You know. Um, if you are of 198 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: strong constitution, I highly recommend a couple of films um, 199 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: both animated Japanese films, The Grave of Fireflies, which is 200 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: beautiful and heartbreaking. But then there is another one called 201 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: Barefoot jen Um from three and it is this exact 202 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: uh scenario that has depicted of the B twenty nine 203 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: um dropping. Uh, this this bomb and it shows the fallouse. 204 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm watching it right now. It is horrific. It's like 205 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: you know, uh, people's skin melting off and teeth falling 206 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: out of their heads and eyeballs liquefying and just being 207 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: reduced to just pulsating, you know, ash and gore. I mean, 208 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: it's really one of the most horrific things I've ever 209 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: seen in an animated film. Um. So to see this 210 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: and have the perspective of how just two miles away 211 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: this man was spared uh and he still received these 212 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: really terrible burns on half his body. M h. And 213 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: this journey through a destroyed city is something you cannot 214 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: really put into words. It's experiential, right, it's phenomenal logical. 215 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: You have to go through that experience yourself to fully 216 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: understand it. There are cadavers, there are corpses that have 217 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: physically melted, and they're everywhere. Buildings are shattered, a lot 218 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: of the bridges are twisted. Uh. They get to a 219 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: river crossing and Yamaguchi has to swim through a layer 220 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: of corpses to reach this station. And when he gets 221 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: to the station, it turns out the train is working. 222 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: It's filled with people who have narrowly survived the explosion 223 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: with terrible, terrible injuries, both mental and of course physical. 224 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: But you'll be happy to know, ridiculous historians, he does 225 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: make it home to reunite with his wife and their 226 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: infant child. And if we fast forward sixteen hours after 227 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: the detonation of Little Boy, you see that President Harry 228 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: Truman gives a speech that reveals the atomic bomb to 229 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: the rest of the world for the first time. Of course, 230 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: people like yeah mcgucci are already very well aware that 231 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: something catastrophic has occurred, but they didn't know exactly what happened, 232 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: what this explosion was. And that's what Truman says. It 233 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: is a harnessing of the basic power of the universe. 234 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: And in his speech he rationalizes the attack on Japan. 235 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: Now we know the flight that Theola Gate took, we 236 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: know about the thousands and thousands who died immediately, and 237 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: then the toll, the death toll continues, right because people 238 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: are dying of other related injuries, tens of thousands of 239 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: them for weeks after this. And this is where this 240 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: is the same speech where Truman's says, if Japan doesn't surrender, 241 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: it can expect a reign of ruin from the air, 242 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: the like of which has never been seen on this earth. 243 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: It's a war against civilians At that point, I mean, really, 244 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: how do we reconcile this in our history? Like it's 245 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: just utter terrorism? And I know you know that we're 246 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: you know, rock in a hard place, but we've never 247 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: had to use this again and resoorts using it again, 248 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: and now it's just this whole like game of like 249 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: kind of standoff, you know with the folks that have 250 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: nuclear powers. But is this something you've ever thought about? Ben, Like, 251 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: is are we do as a country? Do we justify 252 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: this act? Or is it something we look back on 253 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: and in shame. You know, it's a complex topic in 254 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: that regard, and you will hear various different answers depending 255 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: on people's perspectives. Right about about so many events in 256 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: World War two, you know, uh shinzo Abe, the former 257 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: prime min star of Japan who was recently assassinated, refused 258 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: to apologize for any of Japan's actions in World War 259 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: Two from what I understand, But yeah, you know, we 260 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: have to keep in mind that I feel like I 261 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: have to say this more and more often these days. 262 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: When elephants wage war, it's the grass that suffers. So 263 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: these are questions that Yamaguchi isn't quite answering at this point, right. 264 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: He's just trying to survive, and there is amid all 265 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: this horror, I quld you not man. Something that made 266 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: me laugh, and we'll get to it in a second. 267 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: Here's what happens. He's back in Nagasaki. It's August eight now. 268 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: He goes to the hospital and the doctor who is 269 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: treating Yamaguchi is an old school chum of his. But 270 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: the burns of Yamaguchi endured are so severe that at 271 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: first his old friend doesn't recognize him. Neither does his family. 272 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: His mom calls him a ghost. When he gets back home, 273 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: he's on the verge of collapse. Here's here's the part 274 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: that made me laugh a little bit. The next morning, 275 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: August nine, still wrapped up in bandages, Yamaguchi gets up 276 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: and goes to work. He goes to Mitsubishi's Nagasaki office. Yeah, 277 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: that's a pretty serious work ethic there. But I would 278 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: say this is let's just consider this a snow day, right, Yeah, 279 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: like civilization is under attack. Yeah, yeah, it's at the 280 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: very least on pause around eleven am. He he wasn't 281 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: the only one, uh, he was in a meeting. They 282 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: were having meetings with the director of the company who 283 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: wanted a full report on Hiroshima from from the guy 284 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: with burns over you know, of his body, um, and 285 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: he discussed the events that he had witnessed on on 286 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: the sixth, everything from the blinding light to the sound 287 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: he His superiors actually were incredulous. They thought that he 288 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: was you know, pulling their leg or that he was 289 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: in some way, you know, exaggerating because this kind of 290 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: the power of this kind of weapon was not really 291 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: known yet. They wanted to know how this was possible 292 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: because this was based on any artillery or or you know, 293 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: armament that they were aware of. This is not something 294 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: that exists. Yeah, exactly. It sounds pretty crazy, right, And 295 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: if you look at it from the perspective of his employers, 296 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: it is understandable that they could find this hard to 297 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: believe because he was clearly heavily injured, so he might 298 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: not have maybe the most accurate recollection of the disaster 299 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: that occurred. And he's telling his employers. He's saying, look, 300 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: I'm not crazy. A bomb dropped and it destroyed the 301 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: entire city. I hope, he said, all so I showed 302 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: up to work, You're welcome, but why are you grilling me? 303 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: Get off my back? And the thing is, will never 304 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: know if he was about to say that while he 305 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: was trying to explain himself, because then, Noel, there was 306 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: another explosion. Yeah, there was, Um, you know, you probably 307 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: could have seen that coming. They are in Nagasaki at 308 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: this point. Uh. That was the side of the second 309 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: atomic bomb that was dropped, called fat Man, and this 310 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: one was worse. It was more powerful. That's why it 311 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: was the fat Man. The other one was a little boy. 312 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: He literally saw the city in front of him out 313 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: the window of the view of his office just implode, 314 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: last shattered instantly, um, sending just all kinds of shards 315 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: of you know, deadly broken glass shooting through the room. Again. 316 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: Just you can look up the scene if you're interested. 317 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't want to watch the whole movie, but 318 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: this movie Barefoot gin Um. If you just type in 319 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: Barefoot gen g and nuclear bomb scene, it depicts all 320 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: of this stuff that we're describing and just the most 321 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: horrific detail. And there's a particular part where it shows 322 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: glass windows shattering, and he's just like almost as if 323 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: they're like being driven by some sort of like telepathy, 324 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,479 Speaker 1: just these shards of glass flying and just you know, 325 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: skewering people. I mean, this was very, very real, um. 326 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: And sometimes seeing these kinds of things in a cartoon 327 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 1: just makes them even more real. Weirdly, I don't know 328 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: why that is, but it's I found that to be 329 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: the case. Um. Anyway, So he Yeah, if his bosses 330 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: didn't believe him before, as sure as I'll believe him now. Huh. Yeah, 331 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: and can you imagine stuff Frommagucci's perspective. In a later 332 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: interview with The Independent, he tells them that he sincerely 333 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: thought the mushroom Cloud had somehow followed him from Hiroshima, 334 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: and yeah, and you can't blame him. And like you said, man, 335 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: this second um is even more powerful and luckily, like 336 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: so next question is how does he survive this one? Luckily? 337 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: The landscape, the topography of the city, it's very hilly, right, 338 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: and there was a reinforced stairwell that sort of muffled 339 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: the blast inside the office. But his bandages were literally 340 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: blown off. He got hit by another surge of radiation. 341 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: He had yet again been within two miles of a 342 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: nuclear explosion, so he runs from the Midsubishi building. He 343 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: is again very very heavily injured, but and this is 344 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: something very understandable, his first goal is to find his 345 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: family to see if they are alive. He gets to 346 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: his neighborhood, noal. He gets to his house and he 347 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: sees that part of it has been destroyed in the blast. 348 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: But amaze seeingly enough, his wife and his infant son 349 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: are okay. They have cuts and bruises, but not like 350 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: not injuries that would require hospitalization because they were hiding 351 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: in a tunnel. Yeah, I mean, he really just cut. 352 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like luck at this point, because it 353 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: wasn't even something that anybody could have been prepared for 354 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: or known necessarily what to do, you know, to make 355 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: sure but you didn't get more grievously injured, and you know, 356 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: And I was reading some some comments on a message 357 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: board about this, and somebody pointed out very grimly that 358 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: how messed up is that the people that were closest 359 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: to the blast who got vaporized for the lucky ones. 360 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: That's something people often speculate about the event of nuclear 361 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: war or nuclear exchanges. If you are in a large city, 362 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: do you want to live through the initial blast. It's 363 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: a heavy question, but it's um It's an important question, 364 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: and you'll see why when we examine what happens to Yamaguchi. 365 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: And the reason his wife is in the tunnel by 366 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: the way, with their son is because she had been 367 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: out trying to find burn ointment for her husband, so 368 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: she wasn't in the house when it was destroyed. That's 369 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: how that's how they ended up hiding in a tunnel. 370 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: So you could say, as they mentioned on History dot Com, 371 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: that if Yamaguchi hadn't been injured at Hiroshima, his entire 372 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: family might have died that day at Nagasaki. Yeah, so 373 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: they live in a bomb shelter near what used to 374 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: be their house. As Japan surrenders, and then Yamaguchi, along 375 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: with so many other people in Japan, learns what happens 376 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: when you are exposed to an atomic bomb. And to 377 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: that quote you mentioned the message board, this is why 378 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: some people say in theory that they would prefer to 379 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: be vaporized, and he was, of course, was hit twice 380 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: with this radiation. His hair fell out, you know, those 381 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: burns that we talked about, started to get infected. He 382 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: was vomiting constantly. Um, you know, it was grievously ill. 383 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: He described hearing about the surrender of Japan's Emperor Hirohito, 384 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: and he said he was completely ambivalent about it because 385 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: of his condition. He says, quote, I was neither sorry 386 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: nor glad. I was seriously ill with a fever, eating 387 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: almost nothing, hardly even drinking. I thought that I was 388 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: about to cross over to the other side. But little 389 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: by little he he got better. Didn't even Yeah, he did. 390 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: And this is another stroke of great fortune, because many 391 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: victims of radiation exposure did not recover, and they would 392 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: have injuries that haunted them for the rest of their lives, 393 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: or they would die as a result of the radiation. 394 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: He went on. Yamaguchi, that is to live surprisingly relatively 395 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: nor old life. He was a translator for the US 396 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: Armed Forces during their occupation of Japan. He taught school 397 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: for a while, and then eventually he gets back into engineering. 398 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: For you guessed if folks Mitsubishi. He goes on to 399 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: have two more kids in the nineteen fifties. Uh, one 400 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: big change in his life. He does take up writing poetry, 401 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: but it isn't until many decades later, in the two thousands, 402 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 1: that he ever speaks publicly about his experience. Yeah, that's right, 403 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: and I mean we're obviously so glad that he did. 404 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: It's it's a it's a powerful story. I mean, you know, 405 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: we always talk about what qualifies a historical tail as 406 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: being ridiculous, and I think we could probably both agree, 407 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: or all three of us could agree that surviving or 408 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: just being unlucky enough to be present for two of 409 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: histories most brutal and deadly attacks, only to be able 410 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: to survive. I think that's ridiculous in and of itself. 411 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: And then it's just kind of like it almost is 412 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: too too much to believe, you know, it's almost too 413 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: insane to believe this could possibly happen, that one person 414 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: could be that unlucky but also that lucky. Yeah. Yeah, 415 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: going back to that headline really caught me. Later, his 416 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: daughter Toshiko points out something that I speak I think 417 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: speaks to his character, she says afterwards, meaning after his recovery, 418 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: he was fine. We hardly noticed he was a survivor 419 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: or what's called a hippop kusha. He was so healthy. 420 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: She says that he thought participating in anti bomb protest 421 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: or advocating for nuclear disarmament would have been unfair to 422 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: people who were really sick. So he had a conscience 423 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: about it. You know, he didn't want to be I think, 424 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: a performative face of a cause. But like so many people, 425 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: so many survivors of the atomic bombs, Suto Yamaguchi ultimately, 426 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: along with his family, suffered the long term effects of 427 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: radiation exposure. And this is the stuff that gets people 428 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: many many years later, both his son and his wife 429 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: eventually passed away due to cancer from from the exposure. Yeah, 430 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean, and then you know, it's a long game 431 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: for a lot of these folks, as we know from 432 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: I mean honestly largely on the stuff they don't want 433 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: you to know. We talk about corporations that you know, 434 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: poison communities with toxic chemicals and um, you know, people's 435 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: proximity near nuclear waste dump sites and how that stuff 436 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: can leach into the soil and maybe you don't get 437 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: sick right away, but it it it becomes this legacy 438 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: of of death and illness and and just you know, 439 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: reduction of quality of life, and you know, you hear 440 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: about class action lawsuits and things like that. Are all 441 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: these companies and sometimes that helps and helps pay for things, 442 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: but ultimately you're never gonna get your life back. But 443 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: it's not like you can sue the United States for 444 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, pain and suffering. When it was like, you know, 445 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: an active, hot war, right, But best I thought I 446 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: was that I was getting out earlier. Then it's like, 447 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: at what point does something become a war crime? Like 448 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: isn't this overkill? And you think it's not against a 449 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: military basis against the Affilian population. That's like where I 450 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: think about it too. It's like yeah, I don't know, yeah, 451 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: And it's it's a question that people wrestle with in 452 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: in the In the time, dropping the atomic bomb was 453 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: not seen as a war crime, but it was seen 454 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,959 Speaker 1: as a means to an end. The idea was at 455 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: least two American military minds that they had a bomb 456 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: that could in the war. They had this technology and 457 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: if they didn't drop it, they would be traveled, they 458 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: would be essentially do mean their American soldiers to die? 459 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: So it was a greater good argument from their perspective 460 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: but as you know, again from stuff they don't want 461 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: you to know, check out our book coming out October 462 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: eleven wherever you find books. Um As as you know, 463 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: that greater Good argument is one heck of a slippery slope, 464 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: and it's a very very dangerous one. And just just 465 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: to add, I just I was just googling this as 466 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: we were talking about, and there's a really great um 467 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 1: piece on NPR that came out on the seventy five 468 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: anniversary of the bombings um from August six, and it 469 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: interviews quite a few legal scholars who say today this 470 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: absolutely would have been viewed as a war crime. Yes, yeah, 471 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: I mean I remember hearing the number of like they 472 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: they asked me it would take like seven hundred and 473 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: fifty thousand Americans who actually capture Japan. That was the 474 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: number that they had flown and floated around a lot, 475 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: and they expected millions of deaths of Japanese. But to 476 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: your point that that's a really slivery slope saying like, well, 477 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: we're actually saving Japanese lives by killing all these Japanese immediately, 478 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: like instantly with the nuclear bombs. So it's like it's yeah, 479 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: it just doesn't hold up you know, and this as 480 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: as Yamaguchi ages, he begins to publicly speak out against 481 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: nuclear weapons in general. He writes a memoir he corresponds 482 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: with President Barack Obama about this. He appears in a 483 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: documentary that is screened at the United Nations in two 484 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: thousand and six. He is one of around a hundred 485 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: and sixty five survivors who are thought to have survived 486 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: both the bombings, both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But Yamaguchi is 487 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: distinct because he is the only person who is recognized 488 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: by the Japanese government as having survived I've both attacks. 489 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: And he only got that recognition, by the way, because 490 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: he repeatedly wrote in and asked for it. Fascinating stuff. 491 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: And you can find the pictures of this man from 492 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: you know, not terribly long ago. He did. He did 493 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: pass away in two thousand nine, but not visibly scarred 494 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: or mutilated in any ways as a cane. But it 495 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: seems like he lived a very full life, you know, 496 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: past this tragic event. And obviously, you know, this is 497 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: the kind of PTSD that doesn't just like up and disappear. 498 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: But you know, I think it's I think he maybe 499 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: felt strongly about being recognized as that, not for you know, 500 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: some sort of glory, but just so he could talk 501 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: to people about it, describe it, yes, living history, yes, 502 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: the testimony to the horrors of war, but also the 503 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: enduring power of the human spirit, which I know otherwise 504 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: might sound a little pretentious or something, but this, this 505 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: is a true story. And you know when he passes 506 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: away unfortunately due to stomach cancer at the age of ninete, 507 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: what I think we can take away from this tale 508 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: is that history is always closer than you think. Two 509 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: thousand nine was not very long ago at all, and 510 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: with that we have to remember that history, the good 511 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: and the bad, the joy and the terror, it doesn't 512 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: exist in some dusty tone. It's not just a footnote 513 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: in a book in the library. It's alive. It's real, 514 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: and we forget it at our peril. Absolutely point well made, 515 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: and if you want to hear more, you know from 516 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: Yamaguchi he actually was a pretty extensive poet. He didn't 517 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: speak a ton about the bombings to even his own 518 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: family until late in life, but he created uh tanka, 519 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: which is a type of poet tree form like a haikuba, 520 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: but but but different. Similar that it has a pattern 521 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: of of alternating pattern of a number of syllables, so 522 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 1: it is a thirty one syllable poem in the pattern 523 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: of five seven five seven seven. Um. I was not 524 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: aware of this format, but you can't actually read some 525 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: of these that he wrote that he used as a 526 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: as a way of expressing some of these memories and 527 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: feelings surrounding it. So, um, that's something that you can 528 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: look up and maybe get a glimpse a little more 529 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: specifically into into this guy's this guy's mind. That's a 530 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: beautiful way to in this story. You know, thank you, 531 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: thank you for pointing that out. This is only one 532 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: story of people who have narrowly survived these tremendous disasters, 533 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: and unfortunately, there may be more stories like this in 534 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: the future. So this was a little bit of a 535 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: heavy wooden but again we believe it is an important 536 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: story to tell. History is closer than you think, and 537 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: our next episode is closer than you think. No, what 538 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: are we doing for our next episode? You know, Ben, 539 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked for our next episode. We actually 540 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: have a really cool partnership with twenty three and me, 541 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: the company that you know lets you take your DNA 542 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: test and find out all kinds of crazy stuff about 543 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,399 Speaker 1: your lineage. And we both took the test and were 544 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: I think both uh surprised, pleasantly surprised at how far 545 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: these things have come, but we've been both taking them 546 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: in the past as well. Lots of cool information about 547 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: our lineage that we discussed, but also we just discussed 548 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: the history, uh and kind of controversy surrounding the discovery 549 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: of DNA itself. Yeah, I feel like Stefan on the 550 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: Old S and L Sketch. You know, this episode has everything. 551 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: We're not going to do the whole bit. We don't 552 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,240 Speaker 1: want to spoil it, but we do hope you tune 553 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: in because I think we all had a fascinating time, 554 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: even more fascinating than we thought it would be. At 555 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: the offset and thanks as always to our super producer, 556 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: Mr Max Williams. Thanks of course to Gay Bluesier, our 557 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: little research associate. It's all grown up, no he is. 558 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: Check out his amazing daily podcast This Day in History Class. 559 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: Thanks of course to Alex Williams who can post our track. 560 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: Christopher Roscio is here in spirit, Eves Jeff Coates hat 561 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: in the world doing amazing things. I gotta thank Max again, 562 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: give him another wou love that guy. And thanks to 563 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: you Ben for me and a friend travel down the 564 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: road and back again. If you're a pal and a Confidanteal, 565 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: thank you as well, my friend. We'll see you next time. Folks. 566 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I 567 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 568 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.