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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, it's me Josh, and for this week's select,

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Speaker 1: I'm going with our May twenty episode on narcolepsy. It's

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Speaker 1: one of those sysk esque episodes that covers something we've

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Speaker 1: all heard of but really know nothing about. And it's

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Speaker 1: deeply satisfying because it all makes sense and it fits

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Speaker 1: together once you understand it. Good stuff. I hope you

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Speaker 1: enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and

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Speaker 1: there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there and still have

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Speaker 1: Jerry Chuck wake up huh and we're going to get

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Speaker 1: some mail for that.

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Speaker 2: Right off of the bath, I feel quite refreshed.

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Speaker 1: So, Chuck, you might have narcolepsy? Then if you just

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Speaker 1: fell asleep, were you able to resist that urge to

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Speaker 1: sleep just now?

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: As soon as I heard Hey, welcome to the podcast,

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Speaker 2: I went lights out.

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Speaker 1: I think that happens to a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever known anyone with narcolepsy?

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Speaker 1: I haven't. The closest I've I've come to that is

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Speaker 1: watching my own private Idaho.

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Speaker 3: Do you find that sleep inducing?

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Speaker 1: No? No, there's a I think Oh, it's River Phoenix

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Speaker 1: or Keanu Reeves has.

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Speaker 2: No, that's right, I forgot about that. I thought you

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Speaker 2: were saying it's so boring you can't stay awake.

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Speaker 1: No, no, No, that's Cats.

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Speaker 3: Did you see that?

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Speaker 1: No, don't you remember that? I tried to make myself

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Speaker 1: go to sleep in Cats in the Middle.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's right.

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Speaker 1: No, I've not seen the movie.

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Speaker 2: Now, yeah, that's what I was wondering about.

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Speaker 1: After having been on movie crush. Now I can't tell

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Speaker 1: what's what anymore? What I said where? Uh?

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Speaker 2: So my great aunt Laura had narcolepsy, which is my

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Speaker 2: paternal grandmother's sister, and I only met her a few times.

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Speaker 2: This is from my dad's side of the like the

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Speaker 2: Mississippi clan. So I think I only I only remember

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Speaker 2: going to Mississippi like once when I was a kid

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Speaker 2: and visiting her, and I just remember my brother and I.

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Speaker 2: This is my only memory of the visit is Scott

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Speaker 2: and I sitting in a room talking with her and

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Speaker 2: her being in the middle of a sentence and then

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Speaker 2: her head falling down and then ten seconds later she

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Speaker 2: would pick her head up and continue that sentence.

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Speaker 1: Wow, like like without missing a beat or was there

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Speaker 1: like a oh, you know, was she aware that she

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Speaker 1: had just fallen asleep and woken up?

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Speaker 2: In my memory from being like ten years old, she

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Speaker 2: didn't miss a beat and just finished her sentence like

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Speaker 2: right in the middle of a sentence and didn't mention it.

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Speaker 2: And my brother and I were just like, what is

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Speaker 2: going on here?

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Speaker 1: But your dad didn't prepare you for it.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember. I blocked out, you know, purposely blocked

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Speaker 2: out a lot of my childhood.

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Speaker 1: Right right, So I don't know, but that got pulled

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Speaker 1: it into the shuffle.

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Speaker 2: That's the only thing I remember. It may be a

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Speaker 2: child's memory that is a little trumped up, but that's

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Speaker 2: how I remember it.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Man, Well, yeah, I've never known anybody with narcolepsy,

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Speaker 1: and based on that going into this whole episode, like

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Speaker 1: I was just basically going in like I'm sure most

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Speaker 1: of our listeners are where it's just like, yeah, just

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Speaker 1: somebody falls asleep in the middle of the day, they

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Speaker 1: can't help it, and then they wake back up and

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Speaker 1: who cares basically, you know. But the more that I've

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Speaker 1: researched this some more, I'm like, you know, if it

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Speaker 1: even if it were just that alone, it would be

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Speaker 1: pretty disruptive to your normal life, depending on how often

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Speaker 1: it happened to you, you know, every day. But the

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Speaker 1: fact is it's not just that alone, and there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of extra symptoms to it that make it frightening

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Speaker 1: or terrifying or depressing or just completely disruptive, or make

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Speaker 1: it so that you are maybe unable to hold down

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Speaker 1: a job or go to school. There's a it's actually

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Speaker 1: a much it's a much sadder condition than I think

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Speaker 1: most people think of because it seems innocuous. It's just like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you fall asleep here there, It's fine, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it's not There's a lot more to it than that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: I should also mention too that something that should not

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Speaker 2: be confused with narcolepsy is something that Emily's family has.

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Speaker 2: And I saw this when we would go to visit

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Speaker 2: when they lived in Ohio, when he would stay at

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Speaker 2: her parents' house in Bears, Well, you know, eating, drinking

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Speaker 2: during the day, such that by seven to eight o'clock

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Speaker 2: at night every night I would Emily and I would

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Speaker 2: look around, We're watching TV and there are four usually

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Speaker 2: three sleeping adults. And I dubbed it the gas leak,

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Speaker 2: which everyone in their family thought was hysterical.

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Speaker 1: Right now, that's just played old funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's not urcalepsy at all. That's just you know,

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Speaker 2: at what age does that start happening?

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Speaker 3: Is what I want to know. Because I'm creeping up.

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Speaker 2: There twenty one, because I can still jam laid into

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Speaker 2: the night. I'm still you know, I might be sleepy

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Speaker 2: the next day, but that's my only time when I

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Speaker 2: don't have a five year old m so I use

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Speaker 2: that time. I can stay up still till midnight one

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Speaker 2: in the morning. If I am doing something.

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Speaker 1: That's really neat, you must have a lot of testosterone left.

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Speaker 3: I don't think so well.

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Speaker 1: I mean well, no, I mean like to have energy

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Speaker 1: after you know, a certain time of day is I

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Speaker 1: think I think you have a lot of testosterone chuck.

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Speaker 1: I would bet we're going to take you in for

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Speaker 1: a test after this.

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Speaker 2: Well, I feel like it's money. I feel like it

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Speaker 2: kicks back in. Like I'm sleepy sometimes during the day,

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Speaker 2: but then when the night comes and my daughter's asleep,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, this is my this is my

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Speaker 2: time to shine.

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Speaker 1: No, that's very fortunate man, that you're not just like,

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Speaker 1: this is my time to Netflix and chill like you're

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Speaker 1: getting stuff done. I'm envious of you for that because

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Speaker 1: I get a little tired. But I definitely don't have narcolepsy.

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Speaker 1: I'm just kind of like I'm somewhere between you and

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Speaker 1: Emily's family. They guess correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So narcolepsy is it's a chronic disorder.

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Speaker 3: It's a sleep disorder.

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Speaker 2: And I know we've talked a little bit about this

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Speaker 2: in some of our other sleep disorder episodes, so much

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Speaker 2: so that I thought we might have actually covered this,

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Speaker 2: but I quadruple checked and we have not. But it's

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Speaker 2: characterized by a few things. One of the main tenants

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Speaker 2: that basically everybody that has narcolepsy has what's called excessive

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Speaker 2: daytime sleepiness.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's what everybody thinks about when you think of narcolepsy.

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Speaker 1: Somebody just falling asleep. They can't help it, they're just

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Speaker 1: suddenly out.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. They also call those sleep attacks, which is pretty cute.

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Speaker 1: And no matter what variation of narcolepsy you have, you

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Speaker 1: have excessive daytime sleepiness dys right.

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Speaker 3: That's right. And this is not you know, this is

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Speaker 3: nothing new.

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Speaker 2: We're just now sort of figuring it out a little

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Speaker 2: bit since the nineties, which we'll get to. But obviously

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Speaker 2: this has been happening since there have been people. They've

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Speaker 2: probably been suffering from narcolepsy, you know, a small percentage

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Speaker 2: of people. But it was first described in eighteen eighty

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Speaker 2: by a French physician named Jean Baptiste Edouard Guileneo not pair,

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Speaker 2: how would you have.

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Speaker 1: Said it, Jean Baptiste dudoir jeleno is? That? Is it

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Speaker 1: a skipt to put that little uptick on the end.

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Speaker 2: I think that's called an extant algou.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, So yeah, that's how I would have said it.

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Speaker 1: But either way, I think we basically got it across.

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Speaker 1: He was a French physician from eighteen eighty.

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Speaker 2: That's the that's right, yeah. And the origin of the

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Speaker 2: actual term is from Greek narca, which is or stupor.

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Speaker 3: Stupor is one of my favorite.

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Speaker 2: Words, and lepsis to attack or to seize.

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Speaker 1: Right, So it's an attack of stupor basically is what

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Speaker 1: they what he meant when he coined that term. And

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Speaker 1: the reason Jean Baptiste dead war Jellineu came up with

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Speaker 1: this is because a thirty six year old wine cask

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Speaker 1: maker came to him and said, Hey, I think there

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Speaker 1: might be something wrong with me. I fall asleep suddenly

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Speaker 1: out of nowhere for one to five minutes two hundred

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Speaker 1: times a day, every day. What do you think? And

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Speaker 1: Jeleno said, I think I'm gonna make my career on you, buddy.

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Speaker 3: I did the math there.

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Speaker 2: If you average about two and a half minutes between

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Speaker 2: the one to five, that's about eight hours of dozing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm really glad you said that, Chuck, because this

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Speaker 1: was something that I had no idea about. But if

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Speaker 1: you take over a twenty four hour period somebody with

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Speaker 1: narcolepsy and put their amount of sleep next to somebody

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Speaker 1: without an ecolepsy over twenty four hours, it's going to

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Speaker 1: wash out roughly the same. Did you know that?

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: But does that mean that this guy dozed eight hours

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Speaker 2: a day and then stayed up all night or did

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Speaker 2: he sleep another five hours at night and just slept alit.

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Speaker 1: No. So that's one of the one of the key

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Speaker 1: reasons that there is such a thing as excessive daytime

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Speaker 1: sleepiness as part of narcolepsy. It's that your sleep is

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Speaker 1: so disrupted that it's basically spread out over twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours rather than concentrated over eight hours at night. So

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Speaker 1: they're up and awake in the middle of the night

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Speaker 1: for very long periods, just like they fall asleep suddenly

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Speaker 1: during the day. But if you put all those bouts

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Speaker 1: of sleep together, even when they're trying at night and

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Speaker 1: then when they can't help it during the day, it

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Speaker 1: adds up to about the same that a person without

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Speaker 1: narcolepsy will sleep. That's my understanding.

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Speaker 2: Now that's pretty remarkable.

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Speaker 1: It is like the brain's like I'm getting sleep, whether

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Speaker 1: whether you like it or not. We're making this happen.

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Speaker 1: At least by twenty four hours, we're going to have

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Speaker 1: had enough.

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Speaker 2: And of course, you know, since this has been you know,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about the eighteen eighties, there have been a

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Speaker 2: lot of explanations over the years, everyone from Freud to

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Speaker 2: you know, I was about to say legitimate doctors that

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Speaker 2: probably would offend certain people like I like Freud too,

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Speaker 2: but I.

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Speaker 3: Meant, like, you know, never mind.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but Freud of course said that sleep is an escape,

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Speaker 2: and he said, you know, narcolepsy is a lot of

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Speaker 2: times triggered by really intense emotions.

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Speaker 3: So here's what I think.

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Speaker 2: It's just an extreme defense mechanism that lets you escape

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Speaker 2: from those emotions.

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Speaker 1: I love it. It's pretty Freudian. It's about as Freudian

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Speaker 1: an explanation for anything as I've heard. It's just classic. Right,

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Speaker 1: of course, it's just utterly wrong, but I love I

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Speaker 1: just think Freud's at ten that explaining the world were

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Speaker 1: great and valuable in the way that like preserving classic

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Speaker 1: art is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been to his house.

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Speaker 1: What where in Texas? Now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Sigmund Freud house in Tyler, Texas.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of Germans in Texas, although I

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Speaker 1: know he was Austrian.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I believe I saw it in Vienna

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Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken.

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Speaker 1: That's neat, That is very neat. Was this when you

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Speaker 1: were backpacking?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: You need to do a memoir of that time in

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Speaker 1: your life and call it backpacking to Freud's house.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So in the book could just be shaped

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Speaker 2: like a penis.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes a book is just a book, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: So Freud missed the mark a little bit, but still

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Speaker 1: again it's worth mentioning, just like appreciating art. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: until the sixties where they're like, okay, I think we're

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Speaker 1: starting to get some real clues here. And that was

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Speaker 1: when they first established that people with narcolepsy enter r

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Speaker 1: EM sleep during these bouts of narcolepsy, which you are

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Speaker 1: not supposed to do under normal sleep patterns, which we

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Speaker 1: talked about many many times before. Like you said, when

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Speaker 1: you fall asleep, it should take you a little while

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Speaker 1: to enter r EM sleep. That's a deeper phase of

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Speaker 1: your sleep pattern. Right with narcolepsy, they're out and into

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Speaker 1: r EM sleep so quickly that A different way to

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Speaker 1: characterize it that narcolepsy researchers put it is that ore

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Speaker 1: em activity it intrudes into wakefulness. The line between being

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Speaker 1: awake and being in deep RAM sleep is that blurred

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Speaker 1: for people with narcolepsy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like I've occasionally, in a really

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Speaker 2: intense power nap had a dream, but that's only when

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Speaker 2: it's and I don't get to nap anymore. But that's

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Speaker 2: when I've just been so tired that I just nap

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Speaker 2: and fall asleep like immediately.

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Speaker 1: That's neat. How about you? Do you feel refreshed when

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Speaker 1: you wake up.

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Speaker 2: I tend to nap longer when I would nap, so

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't do the When I say power nap, I

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Speaker 2: don't mean the twenty minute disco nap.

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Speaker 3: I mean you really power through for a couple of hours.

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Speaker 1: Right, I thought you were recounting some of your cocaine

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Speaker 1: using days.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, I gotcha.

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Speaker 1: So that was in the sixties. So they say, okay,

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Speaker 1: rim and narcolepsy they go together like chocolate and peanut butter. Right,

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Speaker 1: we're onto something here. But finally in the nineties they're like,

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Speaker 1: really have started to figure it out, and they've zeroed

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Speaker 1: in on the hypothalamus and specifically a small cluster of

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Speaker 1: cells in the rear of the hypothalamus that we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about later. And if you learn about that, and as

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Speaker 1: far as narcolepsy goes, you can find it pretty convincing

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Speaker 1: that we have begun at least to finally truly understand

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Speaker 1: the cause of narcolepsy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. It's they make a great case.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So if you want to talk to.

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Speaker 2: Some initial stats, it occurs in all ethnic groups, It

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Speaker 2: has equal incidents on the gender spectrum.

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Speaker 3: Evidently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, because usually you would see it tilted one

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Speaker 2: way or the other.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: And then as far as how often you're going to

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Speaker 2: see this, it's in about zero point three two point

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Speaker 2: one six percent of gen pop or about one in

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Speaker 2: two thousand people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which makes it which classifies it as a rare disease, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, shout out to, among several others, Rare

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Speaker 1: Diseases dot org for their take on narcolepsy, It was

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Speaker 1: very instructive.

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Speaker 2: Is it a disease or a disorder or is it

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Speaker 2: a fine line?

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Speaker 1: Geez? I think because there's a brain dysfunction that it

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Speaker 1: would be characterized as a disease, wouldn't you.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I still don't know the difference after all these years.

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Speaker 1: So it was I mean, when it was considered an

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Speaker 1: ram sleep disor maybe it still is. It was considered

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Speaker 1: a parasomnia like sleepwalking or whatever, so that would have

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Speaker 1: been considered a disorder them. But I think it's a disease. Now, Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: you want to take a break and come back and

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Speaker 1: talk about what narcolepsy is. Yes, okay, well we'll be

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Speaker 1: right back, everybody. Okay, we're back, and it turns out, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: that there are two types of narcolepsy, And just from

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Speaker 1: all of the research that we've done over the years

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Speaker 1: on interesting health stuff, this smells a lot to me

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Speaker 1: like something that's going to be broken out into its

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Speaker 1: own thing over time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, because we've seen that happen time and

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Speaker 2: time again. We have narcolepsy Type two, which is what

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Speaker 2: we were talking about, the sort of the more like

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Speaker 2: when you think of narcolepsy, this is probably what you're

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Speaker 2: thinking of Aunt Laura falling asleep during the middle of

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Speaker 2: a sentence.

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Speaker 1: Right, And it's type two because it's by far less

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Speaker 1: prevalent than type one. And type one is narcolepsy like

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Speaker 1: you'd think of with the daytime excessive daytime sleepiness. But

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Speaker 1: on top of that, there's something called cataplexy too, and

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Speaker 1: cataplexy can exist on its own. It's the just sudden

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Speaker 1: loss of voluntary muscle function, like you can't keep your

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Speaker 1: head up because your neck muscles just went limp, or

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Speaker 1: your arms go limp, or something like that. And cataplexy

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Speaker 1: can exist on its own. It can exist in conjunction

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Speaker 1: with other diseases to or disorders, but It very frequently

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Speaker 1: coexists with narcolepsy, and one of the hallmarks of it

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Speaker 1: from what I understand, because it gets kind of confusing

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't fully find this out, Chuck, but I

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Speaker 1: think that it can exist in a person with narcolepsy

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Speaker 1: in conjunction with a sleep attack or separately to where

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Speaker 1: you just suddenly like can't hold your head up anymore.

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Speaker 1: The key is you're still conscious. Conscious. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I just turned into an illiterate seventh grader. You're still conscious.

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Speaker 1: You might look like you have just fainted or something

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Speaker 1: like that, depending on the severity of the cataplexic attack.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like a fainting goat, right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, very much like that, Almost exactly like that, because

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Speaker 1: remember with the fainting goats, they would basically just fall

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Speaker 1: over because they were startled.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think pretty much the same thing with cataplexy in humans,

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Speaker 1: although it seems to be more associated with positive emotions.

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Speaker 3: That's so interesting. Yeah, we're going to get into that.

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Speaker 2: There are four symptoms of narcolepsy, which we're going to

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Speaker 2: break down in a second. But they are excessive daytime sleepiness,

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Speaker 2: like we've talked about, there is the cataplexy, their sleep

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Speaker 2: sleep paralysis, and then hypnagogic hallucinations, and if you have narcolepsy,

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Speaker 2: you well, there's about a twenty to twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: chance that you have all four. And I don't think

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Speaker 2: there's any rhyme or reason which ones you do have.

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Speaker 2: But like we said, everybody has the excessive daytime sleepiness.

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Speaker 2: And they're also talking about a fifth beetle.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say that too, Clarence was that

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Speaker 1: his name? Yeah? Or a Pooh said he was too.

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Speaker 2: The fifth symptom, which is disturbed nocturnal sleep, which about

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Speaker 2: fifty percent of the patients have, but they haven't.

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Speaker 3: I think that'll end up in there at some point.

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Speaker 1: And technically there may be a sixth one too, which

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Speaker 1: is called automatic behavior. Where have you ever been like

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Speaker 1: driving and you're suddenly like five exits further than you

359
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Speaker 1: thought you were and you realize you just zoned out

360
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Speaker 1: and were just driving just fine, but you were you're

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Speaker 1: you're basically on autopilot.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean, is that like the same

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Speaker 2: as just daydreaming?

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Speaker 1: Or maybe I think so. But there's like no recollection

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Speaker 1: of anything. You didn't note any landmarks that you just passed.

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Speaker 1: Or let's say you're gardening or something like that, you

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Speaker 1: don't you don't remember finishing digging the hole with a trowel.

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Speaker 1: It's it's you've just completed a task that you have

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Speaker 1: no memory of undertaking.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that happens.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's that's happened to me before. But that's

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Speaker 1: a symptom of It's an additional symptom. It's not a

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Speaker 1: classic symptom. But they're starting to figure out that it

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Speaker 1: is a symptom of narcolepsy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so you're like, I just I went in my

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Speaker 2: garage one day and I had built a penny farthing, right,

377
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Speaker 2: no memory of that how it got there. So it

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Speaker 2: usually starts out in adolescence, which surprised me.

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Speaker 3: I did not know.

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Speaker 2: That, just maybe because my aunt Laura characterized it as

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Speaker 2: something you got later in life. But they do worsen

382
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Speaker 2: with age, so maybe that does make sense after all.

383
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Speaker 2: And sometimes your symptoms can be very steady. Sometimes it

384
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Speaker 2: can be months or years in between changes, and sometimes

385
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Speaker 2: the symptoms change a lot very quickly.

386
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Speaker 1: Right, But the symptom that again, one hundred percent of

387
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Speaker 1: people with narcolepsy have is excessive daytime sleepiness. In almost

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Speaker 1: every case of narcolepsy, that is the first symptom that starts.

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Speaker 1: You almost never start with the other ones. It's that

390
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Speaker 1: one first. And that's exactly what you think of where

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Speaker 1: somebody just falls asleep and they're out for a few

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Speaker 1: seconds to a few minutes, depending And it's not going

393
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Speaker 1: to be the same amount of time every time. They're

394
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Speaker 1: not going to have the same number of sleep attacks

395
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Speaker 1: every time. A lot of it has to do with

396
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Speaker 1: just how tired they are, like how poorly they slept

397
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Speaker 1: the night before. Yeah, that's going to make them more

398
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Speaker 1: susceptible to sleep attacks during the day. And this is

399
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Speaker 1: not the same as hitting the wall at three o'clock

400
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: because you ate lunch and all of your coffee from

401
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,360
Speaker 1: the morning wore off. Yeah, I mean, it bears some

402
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 1: resemblance to it, but this is it is irresistible, this

403
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: urge to sleep or just sleep, it just comes on.

404
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: So that's a that's the main characteristic of narcolepsy. But

405
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Speaker 1: anybody who's kind of dozed off, like sitting in a

406
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Speaker 1: comfortable chair when it was you know, a little warmer

407
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 1: than normal at work, or something like that. Right, like

408
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 1: that is it bears a resemblance to that specific symptom

409
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: of narcolepsy. It's the other ones that you have in

410
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Speaker 1: conjunction with that that really make a narcolepsy like its

411
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Speaker 1: own disorder.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever slept at any job you've ever had?

413
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Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like me, but probably, I'm sure. I'm

414
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: sure I have you here or there? Why you well?

415
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Speaker 2: I mean when I worked the midnight to seven am

416
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 2: shift at the Golden Pantry in Athens, I had a

417
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Speaker 2: regular routine of sleeping.

418
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Speaker 3: Yeah, because you were.

419
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Speaker 2: Allowed to close up the store and mop and do

420
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Speaker 2: things for like an hour. So I would close up

421
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Speaker 2: the store, go back in the back and lay down

422
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Speaker 2: on a little palette I made on top of a freezer.

423
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Speaker 1: Nice, did you get some good sleep?

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Speaker 3: I would?

425
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Speaker 2: It was pretty hard sleep, And I will admit that

426
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Speaker 2: when I had a baby, I took a nap or

427
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Speaker 2: two right here in our own office.

428
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Speaker 1: Oh, nice, can you tell me where is it still?

429
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 1: A secret?

430
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Speaker 2: In one of the private telephone rooms.

431
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: Oh, that would be a good place to take a nap.

432
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Speaker 2: If you've ever gone in there and seen a pillow.

433
00:22:54,400 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: Then in the campstove, the sleep machine. Yeah, an open

434
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 2: bag of marshmallow isn't a stick.

435
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 1: No.

436
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 2: I took a couple of cat naps here at work

437
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: and such that. I was like, you know what, some

438
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 2: countries and companies embrace this, and there's a lot of

439
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 2: value to knocking out for twenty or thirty minutes during

440
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Speaker 2: a workday.

441
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: Is that what that one hr email they sent out

442
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: was all about?

443
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: Maybe?

444
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: Did you try to convince them of that? Did you

445
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 1: go to them and say, you know, some countries really

446
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: embrace this. Why don't you guys be more more continental?

447
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 3: At least don't fire me?

448
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? So yeah, so this is this is a

449
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: kin to that, you know, falling asleep, But the key

450
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: here is that it's unplanned and with narclepsy it is

451
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: straight up irresistible, you know, like when you sit up

452
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: and you like open your eyes a little bit, You're like, wow,

453
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: I can't fall asleep. I I gotta stay awake because

454
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: I'm being paid right now. Like, if you have narclepsy,

455
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: you can't do that. You just fall asleep and you're out.

456
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: And the other key is you feel really good and

457
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: freshed right after one of those sleep attacks, yeah.

458
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: Which is it's weird to think that ten seconds of

459
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 2: that can refresh you.

460
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: I know, it is very weird, but that's part of

461
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: it for sure.

462
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 2: So cataplexy, which we've talked about, the fainting goat like

463
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 2: thing you mentioned. Positive emotions can trigger it, being surprised, laughter, elation,

464
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 2: sometimes anger, which is not positive, but intense emotions like

465
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: that can trigger this. And it can be everything from

466
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: like you said, your head just sort of nodding down

467
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: to full on just collapsing, yeah.

468
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: Which is called a drop attack, which are kind of dangerous.

469
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: You can get banged up pretty bad because this is

470
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: not necessarily you falling asleep or fainting or as a

471
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: matter of fact, it's not that Yeah, you're up, you're away,

472
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: so totally conscious you are. You just can't control your

473
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: muscles all of a sudden for a very short period

474
00:24:59,280 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: of time.

475
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

476
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: And interestingly, and which is a good news which is

477
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 2: good news, is that as you get older, cataplexy amount

478
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: actually improve.

479
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is good news because.

480
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: Taking a fall in the hallway at you know, eighty

481
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: years old is much different than at eighteen.

482
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: For sure. Let's see. Oh, there's also sleep paralysis, which

483
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: we did an entire episode on Yeah, it's not fun.

484
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: It frequently is accompanied by hallucinations, which is another symptom

485
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: we'll talk about next. But sleep paralysis was first described

486
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: by a physician who had a patient that presented with narcolepsy,

487
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: and this guy figured out there was such a thing

488
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: as sleep paralysis. But it's basically when you're falling asleep

489
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: or waking up, there's a there's a like a few

490
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: fleeting moments where you can't move at all. You're paralyzed. Yeah,

491
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: and it's not pleasant one bit. So if you are

492
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: having a sleep attack and you're coming in and out

493
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: of sleep, you know, a bunch of times a day,

494
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: and you feel so paralyzed as you're coming in and

495
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: out of sleep and you don't know what's going on,

496
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: it can make the whole narcoleptic experience a lot more terrifying.

497
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, as well, hallucinations. These can come at the onset

498
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 2: of sleep or at the end of sleep. They can

499
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: be really scary. Sometimes it could just be hearing a noise.

500
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 2: What was the one thing we talked about at the time,

501
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 2: where you hear a loud noise exploding head. That's right,

502
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: exploding head. Somehow, all this seems to be related somehow.

503
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think

504
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: a lot of it has to do with the neurons

505
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: that we'll talk about in a little bit.

506
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 2: So the hallucinations, when they happen when you're waking up,

507
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: they're called hypnopompic, and when you're falling asleep, those are

508
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: the hypnagogic that we mentioned earlier.

509
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again they very frequently accompany sleep paralysis, and

510
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: that like you can't move and you're hallucinating. A demon's

511
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: standing on your chest, right, and that's why you can't move.

512
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: And again this is happening to you many many times

513
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: a day against your will, and it makes it unpleasant.

514
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: And then there's also something called disrupted nighttime sleep, which

515
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: is basically the exact polar opposite of excessive daytime sleepiness,

516
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: where during the night, when everybody else is asleep and

517
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: when you wish you were sleeping, you might be wide awake,

518
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: so that again your sleep pattern is not concentrated into

519
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: eight hours at night, it's spread out in about eight

520
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: hours throughout a twenty four hour period.

521
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 3: That's right.

522
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: So we talked a lot about the various sort of

523
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 2: explanations for this over the years what they thought was

524
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: going on, and that it wasn't until the nineteen nineties

525
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 2: that they kind of zeroed in on what they think

526
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 2: is going on now, which to me and you holds

527
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: a lot of promise. But nineteen ninety eight was the

528
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: year that they finally discovered and isolated the chemical in

529
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: the brain that seems to be the cause of all this,

530
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: and it's called hypocretan.

531
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 3: Hippocretan.

532
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: I want to say, hypocretan.

533
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 3: How do you too, So let's do, okay, hypocretan.

534
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they isolated that, and there we have our cousins,

535
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: the rats, to thank for this, because they did a

536
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: lot of rats tests and figured out from those tests

537
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: just how how this whole thing works. But what they

538
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: figured out is that hypocretan has some it has a

539
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: few different functions, but its main function is maintaining wakefulness

540
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: in US humans and it is a it's a peptide.

541
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: It also has another name, Chuck called erexin, and it's

542
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: the exact same neurochemical, but it would just happen to

543
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: be discovered independently by two different groups at about the

544
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: same time, so it has two names. Still, they haven't

545
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: settled on one. But it basically goes around and says, hey, serotonin,

546
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: you're looking good, here's a little boost. Hey, neuro epinephrine,

547
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: you're looking great yourself. Here's another little boost. And so

548
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: all of these neurochemicals that keep us awake and alert

549
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: get a boost from hypocretin so that they can do

550
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,719
Speaker 1: their job better. And what they found is that people

551
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: with type one narcolepsy have about ninety to ninety five

552
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: percent fewer of this very specialized cluster of neurons in

553
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: the brain that are responsible for producing all of the

554
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: hypocretin in our bodies.

555
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's case closed, right, basically.

556
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the only thing left to explain is

557
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: twofold one, exactly why the hypocretin is the neurons that

558
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: produce hypocretin are so diminished. And it seems like they've

559
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: basically explained that one and then two what to do

560
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: about it? That's the big one.

561
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should mention too that there are about

562
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: eighty six million, i'm sorry billion neurons in the brain

563
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 2: and only about between one hundred and two hundred thousand

564
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: neurons produce hypocretin. So it is a very specialized cluster

565
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 2: of neural cells.

566
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it also makes it really vulnerable too, and

567
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: they're all in one space in the rear of the hypothalamus,

568
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: So it's really weird that evolution was like, that's fine,

569
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: this is a really really really important chemical, but we're

570
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: just gonna localize it right here in this one spot

571
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: to just one hundred thousand neurons.

572
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's also really weird that if you only

573
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: have type two narcolepsy, you don't show any decrease in hypocretin.

574
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: Right right, that's just the one where you have sleep

575
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 1: attacks and not cataplexy, And it is really weird. And

576
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: that's why I was saying, like, I wonder if that's

577
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: going to be broken out eventually in the future into

578
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: its own disorder or disease. But the current thinking for

579
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: that is that that is a less pronounced or less

580
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: advanced case of type one and narcolepsy to where you're

581
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: probably going to eventually get cataplexy, or you may never

582
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: get cataplexy, but your your case of narcolepsy just stopped

583
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: progressing at something point. That's what they think currently.

584
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: A lot of the sleepiness of narcolepsy. This you know,

585
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: it's a theory at least from researchers, is that it's

586
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: a consequence of sleep state instability.

587
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: And that's something I know we.

588
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: Talked about before, that that threshold between being awake and

589
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: being asleep and those lines getting blurred and crossing over,

590
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: and then I guess that must have been sleep paralysis

591
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: that we talked about that.

592
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: I think so, because that's that is like an example

593
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: of like way that is like wakefulness intruding on ore

594
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: em sleep. It's almost like the opposite of narcolepsy. People

595
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: experiencing sleep paralysis without narcolepsy. It's kind of like that,

596
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: but it's it's ultimately that it's a consequence of your

597
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: brain no longer able to being able to hold the

598
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: switch down between the on off switch between sleep and wakefulness. Right,

599
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: So it's like hypocriten is the thumb that holds the

600
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: on off switch in place. Without it, that switch is

601
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: kind of hair trigger, so that it just kind of

602
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: can shift back and forth between on and off really

603
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: easily and really quickly. And so without that hypocriton, that's

604
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: that you can just kind of go in between wakefulness

605
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: and r EM sleep with no transition and just at

606
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: the drop of the hat basically, so they think that

607
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: that's it, that it is a lack of hypocriten that

608
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: is responsible at least for type one narcolepsy, which is

609
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: narcoleepsy with cataplexy.

610
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 3: Should we take the break now?

611
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: Sure?

612
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a break because we're going to

613
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 2: get into our third act here with a very what

614
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: I think is the most interesting part of all this,

615
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: which is what it has to do with your genes

616
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: and your immune system right after this, all right, so

617
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: I promise talk of genes and your immune system. This

618
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: is super interesting to me because I feel like they're

619
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: really zeroing in on what's going on here with this research.

620
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 1: Dude, how many episodes have we done on stuff like

621
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: this where we're like, they think maybe this or studies

622
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: or stuff. Right, we have caught this at like peak

623
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: ripeness right before everybody knows that it's just so plain

624
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: and obvious and it's been talked about so much, but

625
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: right after all of these important advanced advancements in the

626
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: study of it have really kind of come together in jelled.

627
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: I mean, it is perfectly fresh.

628
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a very rare satisfying feeling.

629
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: I feel satisfied myself.

630
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 2: So there they think there's a genetic basis for narcolepsy,

631
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: but the genes that are involved in narcolepsy really aren't

632
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: involved with sleep. It's about your immune system. So how

633
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: it goes is a little something like this. There, all right, man,

634
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 2: there are genes that code for these T cell receptors

635
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: and the h LA gene human leukocyte antigen. And not

636
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 2: everyone has this variant, but if you do, you're gonna

637
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 2: have about a twenty five percent greater chance of having narcolepsy.

638
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that variant of the HLA gene very important.

639
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 3: That's a big increase.

640
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty five is for real because a lot of

641
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: those they'll show like the relative increase, it increases your risk,

642
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: you know, eighty percent, But if you look at the

643
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: absolute increase, it's like, well that you know, you have

644
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: you know, one point five times the chance or something

645
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: like that, twenty five times likely or is definitely a

646
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: huge increase. For sure. My hat is off to that one.

647
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

648
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: But so what they're thinking is that it's actually the

649
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: basis of narcolepsy is an autoimmune disease, and that is

650
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,919
Speaker 2: what's killing off your immune system, is killing off those

651
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,959
Speaker 2: hypocrete and producing neurons.

652
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, just like crones, irritable bowel syndrome, or rheumatoid arthritis,

653
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: it's your body turning on itself. It's mistaken, so it

654
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: attacks itself. Your immune system attacks your own body, and

655
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: in this case, in the case of narcolepsy, they think

656
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: that something about those hypocritin hypocretin producing neurons, I guess

657
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: are producing something that seems like an antigen to your body.

658
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: If you have that specific variant of that HLA gene

659
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: and it attacks them, kills off those neurons, you don't

660
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: have any hypocretan any longer, and so you can't maintain wakefulness,

661
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 1: and so sleep and wakefulness just toggle back and forth

662
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: throughout your day.

663
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: Are you going to drop the streptococcus bomb?

664
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: I think you should.

665
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 3: I think I understand it.

666
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: But just after the onset of narcolepsy, it looks like

667
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: you have an increased level of antibodies against streptococcus. And

668
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: that's like strep throat and there are other infections involved,

669
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 2: and so they've also tied that to the time of year.

670
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: Narcolepsy usually begins in late spring and early summer, which

671
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: would kind of make sense that there's an autoimmunitac going

672
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: on against those neurons, triggered by strep throat or some

673
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: other kind of infection you get during the winter.

674
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like your immune system just goes bonkers because of

675
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: STRAP and it's like, what else, what else can I

676
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: go after? I'm really prime to pumped, And for some

677
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: reason it goes after your hypocrete in producing neurons in

678
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: your hypothalamus.

679
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 2: That's nuts.

680
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: So your immune response is triggered by an actual infection,

681
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: they think, and the reason why they think this, and

682
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: it greatly pains me to reveal this, I know. But

683
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: there is a vaccine called Pandemics that is no longer

684
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: available anywhere in the world, but it was hot and

685
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: heavy as a vaccine against H one N one swine flu,

686
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: and it was a really potent vaccine against H one

687
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 1: N one swine flu, and some European Northern European countries

688
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: during the two thousand and nine to twenty eleven swine

689
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: flu pandemic chose to use this to inoculate their population

690
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: with right. Yeah, Well, there were reports that have been

691
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: backed up by studies, not just in Finland, which was

692
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: a big place where this happened, but in other places

693
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: like the UK did studies too that found the same results,

694
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: that there was a link between pandemics and narcolepsy, that

695
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: the pandemics triggered that immune response that ultimately led to

696
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: the immune system attacking the hypocretan producing neurons, so that

697
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: H one N one vaccine brought on a lifelong chronic

698
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: case of narcolepsy.

699
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought that was hard to say.

700
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: What, Yeah, it really was. I really really hate saying

701
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: stuff like that.

702
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: I know, but you know what you gotta. We got

703
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 2: to preach the science, and the science appears valid here, agreed. Yeah,

704
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: dozens of kids in Finland developed narcolepsy, and I think

705
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: the new rate of cases of narcolepsy and kids increased

706
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: eight to twelvefold. And you know, I think out of

707
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: the fifty four kids who were diagnosed with narcolepsy, fifty

708
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: of them and had the vaccine, so fifty four.

709
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean these like, these numbers are really

710
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: really small, but if you think about it, so four

711
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: kids apparently in twenty ten would have been diagnosed with narcolepsy,

712
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: had that pandemic not happened in that or that particular

713
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: vaccine not been administered, but because it was, the number

714
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: was fifty four, not four. So even though the numbers

715
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: again absolutely are rather small percentage wise, that's an enormous,

716
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: a mind boggling increase in the number of narcolepsy diagnoses. Yeah,

717
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: and it was linked directly to that vaccine and they

718
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: I keep saying.

719
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 2: That, and they caught it and it is no longer

720
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: being given anywhere. It was never available in the United States.

721
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: So Finland just sort of got the brunt of it.

722
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: It seems like, yeah, Finland, the UK had a bunch.

723
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: Their rate was one case of diagnosed narcolepsy for every

724
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: fifty five thousand inoculations in children I think six months

725
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: to eighteen, but that washed out to like sixteen sixteen people,

726
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: which still I mean, if you're one of those people,

727
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: you're like, well, son of a gun, that really sucks.

728
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: But here's the key, and this is really really important,

729
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: and this is how we will be able to still

730
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: use a vaccine that is viable and potent and works

731
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: against swine flu without giving somebody narcolepsy. And that is

732
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: personalized drugs based on gene tests DNA tests. Because of

733
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: those fifty kids in Finland that receive the vaccine in

734
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: twenty ten that developed narcolepsy, every single one of them

735
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: carried that specific variant of the HLA gene that is

736
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: tied to narcolepsy. So if you just did a simple

737
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: DNA test, which hopefully will be widespread in just a

738
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: few years, you'd say, oh, no, I'm glad we did this.

739
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 1: You can't have pandemics, you might get narcolepsy, or basically

740
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: there's one hundred percent chance you're going to get narcolepsy.

741
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: We'll give you this other vaccine instead that has been

742
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: shown not to produce narcolepsy and people like you.

743
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: That's right, and you can refer to our episode on

744
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: personalized medicine.

745
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: Yes, right, we should do a follow up on that one.

746
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, So that on the list for six

747
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 3: years from now.

748
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: So basically, you've got these genes that predispose you to

749
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 1: your immune system mistakenly attacking that part of your hypothalamus.

750
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: There has to be some sort of trigger, either an

751
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: infection or pandemics something like that. Typically, an infection was

752
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: stripped and then there seem to be two age windows

753
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: where you're particularly vulnerable around fifteen and around thirty six.

754
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: They have no idea about any of that. They just

755
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: have they're starting to put this data together.

756
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet you they'll figure that out too, agreed.

757
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: I really feel like narcolepsy is going to be like

758
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: totally and completely figured out in the next decade. I

759
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: cannot be more jazzed about it, really. Yeah. No, love science,

760
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: just figuring things out, you know, just doggedly, you know,

761
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: working and building on you know, somebody else's work. It's

762
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: just it's a beautiful thing when it's done right.

763
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: Agreed. So, if you are going to be diagnosed with narcolepsy,

764
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 2: there are a couple of tests that they're going to

765
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: give you. One is called an overnight polysom no gram

766
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 2: that's right, a PSGH.

767
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 3: And that is a test when you it's one of

768
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:38,959
Speaker 3: those tests.

769
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: It's like a sleep study, is when you go in

770
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: and sleep for them basically, and yeah, and they measure

771
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: a lot of things. They measure your brain waves, they

772
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 2: measure your heart rate, eye movements, limb movements, muscle tone, respiration,

773
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 2: get a lot of info there, and then they'll say now,

774
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: you're gonna This is gonna be followed by the multiple

775
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: sleep latency test, which also sounds kind of fun because

776
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: that measures how quickly you fall asleep for a nap

777
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 2: every couple of hours during the day.

778
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: I know, when you have to go in for one,

779
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: You're like, I got to go to a doctor's appointment,

780
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: and he goes, oh, sorry, you go no, No, it's great.

781
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: It's going to be the greatest day of my life.

782
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, those rooms make me sleepy.

783
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 2: I could see some people being like, oh, I can't

784
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: go sleep in a room. But I was well known

785
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 2: as a child for falling asleep in like a dentist

786
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: chair waiting waiting for the dentists to come in, or

787
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 2: in a waiting room for or not a waiting room,

788
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 2: but in the exam room for a doctor. I still

789
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 2: get sleepy in those just super clean, super cool, quiet

790
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 2: rooms with fluorescent lighting. It just zaps me.

791
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very odd.

792
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: So four or five nap opportunities during the day, they're

793
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: going to see how fast you fall asleep. And if

794
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: you fall as if you have narcolepsy, you're going to

795
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: fall asleep super easy compared to someone without narcolepsy.

796
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 1: Right, so that's the that's a pretty big giveaway. If

797
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: they're still like, I don't know, this is all this,

798
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, this patient history that we've taken and these

799
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: tests are inconclusive. They might test your cerebrospinal fluid because

800
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 1: hypocretan levels are very easily tested through that as fun. No,

801
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: not nearly as fun, because they're going to go through

802
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: the base of your skull, that hole in your skull

803
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: where your spinal cord.

804
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't know.

805
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: I know. I hope that that never befalls either one

806
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: of us and to anyone who's ever had to go

807
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: through that, we are very very sorry. Yeah, but that

808
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: also is looking like a place where they're trying to

809
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: figure out how to cure narcolepsy, because as it stands

810
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: right now, if you're diagnosed with narcolepsy, you've just been

811
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: given a lifelong chronic diagnosis. Yep, there's no cure for

812
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: narcolepsy as it stands right now, but there are treatments,

813
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: and from everything I read, if you are actively treating

814
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: your narcolepsy through a doctor, usually with prescriptions and also

815
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: like behavioral modification, not like you know, hooking you up

816
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: to a car battery and changing your behavior like that

817
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: more like making sure you stick to like a good

818
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 1: sleep pattern. You can very much keep your symptoms in

819
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: check for sure. It doesn't have to ruin your life.

820
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: The trouble is is that it's very frequently misdiagnosed and

821
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: it's underdiagnosed, and they think it's because it's it occurs

822
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: with so many comorbidities like depression, where the doctor's like, well,

823
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: sure you're falling asleep all day because you're just sitting

824
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: around on the couch, because you don't have any low

825
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: energy because you're depressed. Really, it's possible that you have

826
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: to developed depression because of the narcolepsy. They haven't figured

827
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: out if they're comorbid or if the if one causes

828
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: the other, but they're pretty sure that the narcilepsy causes

829
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: the depression.

830
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're probably going to get a prescription for something

831
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: it maybe or it's probably likely to be medaphanil these days.

832
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: And we talked about that in Our is Science Phasing

833
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: Out Sleep episode.

834
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've done a bunch of sleep once. I forgot

835
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 2: about that one. Riddlin you might get you know, it

836
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: says in you know in the old days methamphetamines, but

837
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 2: they still prescribe a variation of speed for I'm not

838
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: sure if it's an earcolepsy, but I know an individual

839
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 2: that I was diagnosed with. I guess just extreme daytime sleepiness.

840
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: They're in chores fast enough, no no.

841
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 2: For falling or get just feeling really really sleepy during

842
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 2: the day, and did the sleep study and all that,

843
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: and they were prescribed kind of whatever the version of

844
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: speed is these days.

845
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: Was when was that? When were they prescribed that? Was

846
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: at bout in the nineties last year? Oh really, I'm

847
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: surprised because from what I saw, medaphanil is like, Nope,

848
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: don't need anything else. Just take medafinil. You don't get

849
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: addicted to it. There are very few side effects. It's

850
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: supposed to just be like a wonder drug.

851
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 2: Basically, anytime I hear that, I get dubious.

852
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: Right, I think that's pretty smart. Actually, they might also

853
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: prescribe you antidepressant like an SSRI, which inhibits re uptake

854
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 1: a serotonin, which means you have more serotonin in your brain,

855
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: which would make sense because what hypocretin does is boost

856
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: your levels of serotonin and other neurochemicals, So this is

857
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: kind of going around that problem and just making you

858
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 1: have more serotonin than before, which apparently helps maintain ram

859
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: sleep the barrier between that and wakefulness a lot better.

860
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then the final thing, which is really interesting

861
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: and promising is they did the sort of logical thing,

862
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 2: which is, hey, maybe we can just get some more

863
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 2: hypocretin in your body, because if that's the problem, why

864
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 2: don't we just do that?

865
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 1: So they cut out fat hauled legs of it for

866
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: you at the doctor's office.

867
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 2: There are different methods cell transplantation, which is just implanting cells,

868
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: maybe implantation of the gene like gene therapy, maybe just

869
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 2: giving it through your nose or injecting it into your body.

870
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying of core all work interest sisternally chuck,

871
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: which is again through the base of the skull in

872
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: the back of your head where your spinal cord goes

873
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: up to your brain. They can inject into your cerebrospinal

874
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: fluid like that too. Probably the least fun of all

875
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 1: of them, but they are They're on the case, basically,

876
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: is what that means.

877
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, we've talked sort of off and

878
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 2: on throughout this thing about your quality of life with narcolepsy.

879
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 2: It's obviously a serious thing. There can be besides just

880
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 2: like holding a job and socially and not being depressed

881
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,959
Speaker 2: because you don't want to hang out with people because

882
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 2: you may be embarrassed by it. There's also so like

883
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: the very real chance of accidents. Some people are not

884
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 2: allowed to drive, some people are allowed to drive. It

885
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 2: kind of depends on I guess your diagnosis.

886
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 3: School is tricky.

887
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 2: Work can be tricky, although they do they do with

888
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: the Americans with Disabilities Act. They provide for letting people

889
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: take naps and stuff like that, which is kind of cool.

890
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: It is. Yeah, if you have narcolepsy and you're at work,

891
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 1: you can say, hey, employer, I need some I need

892
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 1: a place to take a nap, and they'll say, okay,

893
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: that's great.

894
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: We'll say right in here, and they're like, oh my god, Chuck's.

895
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: In there, right Chuck. So there's I mean, it gets

896
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: even tighter though, Like there are people who who die

897
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: by suicide from narcolepsy. There's a girl named Katie Klak

898
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: who got pandemics and developed narcolepsy as a result, and

899
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: she ended up taking her life because she just it

900
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: just completely derailed things for she was in no way,

901
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: shape or form prepared for it, although I don't know

902
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: that anybody's prepared for it. And then also, like you

903
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: were saying, an accident can happen, and from what I read,

904
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: the risk of death and injury among people with narcolepsy

905
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: is almost twice that of the general population. Man through

906
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: things like car accidents or you know, cooking or going

907
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: up a ladder or something like that. If you suddenly

908
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: developed cataplexy or a sleep attack or something that's a

909
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: bad time to fall asleep or lose control of your muscles.

910
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: You know, well, and at the very least you're gonna

911
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 2: have to really arrange your life to accommodate for this stuff.

912
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: Right, you know. But again, if you are managing your symptoms,

913
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: you can lead a pretty normal life. I think it's

914
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: just a question of like getting diagnosed correctly. Yeah, yeah,

915
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: well that's it for narcolepsy. Hopefully we'll have it all

916
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: figured out and when we revisit it in five or

917
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: ten years, will be like, it was all right, everything.

918
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,479
Speaker 2: Was correct, It was all right.

919
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: And since I said it was all right, it's time

920
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: for listener.

921
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 3: Man, I'm going to call this soul Train feedback.

922
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: Nice.

923
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 2: That was a fun show, And this is from Julia. Hello, guys,

924
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: we really enjoyed your Soul Train episode. You did a

925
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 2: great job capturing the feeling and cultural significance of the show.

926
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 2: You depicted a brilliant, flawed Don Cornelius without negating his

927
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 2: profound contribution. There was a monthly black teenage magazine named

928
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 2: right on. This publication gave names to the dances and dancers.

929
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 2: We would read the ink off of the pages. Being

930
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 2: black in America then and now we watch mainstream America

931
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 2: love the culture while devaluing the people and criminalizing the young.

932
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 2: Thank you for this episode, and that is from Julia Pierce,

933
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: the president of the Tybee MLK Human Rights Committee.

934
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: Nice Tybee Island. I guess in Georgia.

935
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 3: I don't know, I guess so I hope.

936
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: So that's great. Thanks a lot, Julia, much appreciated.

937
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 2: Agreed.

938
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with us like

939
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: Julia did, give us props or just say hey, you

940
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: guys are doing this too much, or be quiet. We

941
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,399
Speaker 1: never will but you can still say it. You can

942
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: send us an email to Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

943
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

944
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,959
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

945
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.