Speaker 1: On the be Dol Cast. The questions asked if movies
Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef
Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hey Jamie,
Speaker 1: Hey Caitlan. Guess what, but it's Rex Manning Day on
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast. How are you going to celebrate? I'm
Speaker 1: going to get the ugliest self tanner I can possibly find,
Speaker 1: and and uh and and uh. I don't know is
Speaker 1: there a full music video for that? Because I want
Speaker 1: to see it. It seems like they shot a full one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was kind of into like until you get to
Speaker 1: know him better. I was kind of interacts Manning's like sound.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I I know he's he's there for the moms, but
Speaker 1: I would show up. What's the song? Say no more
Speaker 1: mona more? It's really good? I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I could I can put that in my morning rotation,
Speaker 1: No problem. Sure, how are you going to be observing
Speaker 1: Rex Manning Day? I am going to I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: remember when he punches a teenager? I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna punch a teenager. But I'm not going to
Speaker 1: do that. Remember what the protagonist of the movie also
Speaker 1: punches a teenager. You have Joe punch as a teenager.
Speaker 1: But they're like no, but it's a paternal thing. You're like, well,
Speaker 1: that does make it worse. But okay, so much happens
Speaker 1: in this movie, and yet not that much happens in
Speaker 1: the movies. To me. The main character is liv Tyler's
Speaker 1: crop top, and that is very important to me. The
Speaker 1: true protagonists. I love it, I want it, I can't
Speaker 1: pull it off. Uh, it's the Empire Records episode of
Speaker 1: the Back Took. Yes. So this is our show where
Speaker 1: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Speaker 1: Bechtel Tests simply as a jumping off point for our discussion. Jamie,
Speaker 1: can you remind me on this bright and sunny mix
Speaker 1: Rex Manning Day the mixed Franny? Yikes, my brain is tired.
Speaker 1: Can you remind me what the Bechtel cast Nope podcast
Speaker 1: about it? It's a dark okay. The Bechtel test is
Speaker 1: was like, Caitlin, wake up, wake up, you're dreaming. He's
Speaker 1: going great. I ate some weed brownies and now I'm
Speaker 1: in a gar eight music video. Oh. I was like, Kyla,
Speaker 1: you can't. You don't do that. I ate fruit and
Speaker 1: nuts this morning and I got like grate. I started like,
Speaker 1: I got mad at I don't sometimes when make healthy choices,
Speaker 1: I'm like, who the funk do you think you are?
Speaker 1: I was like looking at my fruit and nuts like, oh, oh,
Speaker 1: you're really going to make a change. Get a grip. Anyways,
Speaker 1: the Bectel test is, and those internal monologues past the
Speaker 1: Bechtel test. Wow, true, Yeah, because my rage it myself
Speaker 1: is about women. So the Bechtel test is a media
Speaker 1: metric created by alsin Bechtels, sometimes called the Bucktel Wallace test. Uh.
Speaker 1: Many different versions of this test, but the one that
Speaker 1: we use on the show requires that two characters of
Speaker 1: a marginalized gender with names must speak to each other
Speaker 1: about something other than a man for more than two
Speaker 1: lines of dialogue. And as you will learn in our
Speaker 1: Empire Records episode, it doesn't matter how weird or chaotic
Speaker 1: that dialogue is. So that's the Becktel test. We're covering
Speaker 1: Empire Records today. It's been a request for quite some time,
Speaker 1: and we have an amazing guest to observe, Rex Manning
Speaker 1: Day with Oh my Gosh, I can't wait. So. She
Speaker 1: is a culture editor at Auto Straddle. She's also written
Speaker 1: for Thrillist, Bitch Media, and Vogue Magazine. She is Shelley Nicole. Welcome. Um.
Speaker 1: We were toying off Mike with introducing I mean, we're
Speaker 1: all in on it, but possibly bring you in as
Speaker 1: Shreky Nicole and just seeing how far into the episode
Speaker 1: we at the end. That is exactly what I'd like
Speaker 1: to be referred. I will change my Twitter handle if
Speaker 1: I have to. I promise you I will like Shreky.
Speaker 1: What's your history with records? I think so Like Caitlin
Speaker 1: was talking about taking me brownies in Agua video before
Speaker 1: you mentioned the Guar video, I was just like, so,
Speaker 1: that's what kind of podcast this is. I knew it all.
Speaker 1: I wish I could do weed every time I consume,
Speaker 1: not do Weedkit. You sound like you're in the CIA
Speaker 1: when you say stuff like that, Hello, fellow kids, want
Speaker 1: to do some weed and listen to some war on
Speaker 1: our walkman, like on the clock at work while I'm
Speaker 1: literally supposed to be like working. Is that before or
Speaker 1: after he Um low key assaults a woman by grabbing
Speaker 1: her foot and kissing at her foot. I think that
Speaker 1: was after when she was just trying to do ballet
Speaker 1: and mind her own business and he kisses her feet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he tries to kiss her head. Also. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not a good look. Mark. It's not a good look.
Speaker 1: Mark is a disaster. I'm so excited to talk about
Speaker 1: this movie, especially just like learning about the production of
Speaker 1: this movie is so wild, and some of the results
Speaker 1: of that is you just get like bizarro disembodied shots
Speaker 1: like that that you're like, what is happening? What am I?
Speaker 1: What is the takeaway? And sometimes they're like, that was
Speaker 1: just kind of a vibes based shot that we chose.
Speaker 1: We just kind of felt like doing it, and it's
Speaker 1: so we're gonna do it. Let's party Party. The narrative
Speaker 1: trajectory in this movie is so hard to track and
Speaker 1: fall I was getting so much whiplash. I'll save it.
Speaker 1: But Okay, Shelly, I'm sorry. Shreky, Shreky, thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Tell us about your history, your relationship with
Speaker 1: Empire Records. Um, it literally started with Live Tyler's crap
Speaker 1: top and I'm commented, So when you said that, I
Speaker 1: was like, Yeah, that's it. I watched this movie in
Speaker 1: middle school and found it when I was in Blackbuster.
Speaker 1: I used to go to Blackbuster with my dad. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I used to force my father to take me to
Speaker 1: Blackbuster on Friday. And I would always been like an
Speaker 1: insane amount of time, like trying to pick out one video,
Speaker 1: and it was to the point where he would eventually
Speaker 1: start waiting in the car, and then I would bang
Speaker 1: on the Blockbuster window and be like I'm ready to
Speaker 1: check out, Like that's how long it would take me,
Speaker 1: like pick a movie. But I found this movie. I
Speaker 1: go through still like spurts of like I only want
Speaker 1: to watch movies about this specific subject. And at that time,
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with school girls. Into me that meant
Speaker 1: that anybody wearing a plaid skirt was clearly a school girl. Right,
Speaker 1: that's incorrect. But I saw this movie like on one
Speaker 1: of the shelves, and I grabbed it because of her
Speaker 1: crop top and because of the skirt, but also I
Speaker 1: grabbed it because I recognized her from And this wasn't
Speaker 1: like two thousand when I saw it, right, I recognized
Speaker 1: her from the Aerosmith video as the other girl who
Speaker 1: was with Share because I just knew yeah, I just
Speaker 1: knew at leash was Silverstona's share Um, and I had
Speaker 1: never really seen her in anything else. But that video
Speaker 1: is also kind of a queer route for me, so
Speaker 1: I all that, and I was just like, so, if
Speaker 1: she's in this, I don't know, maybe share might show up,
Speaker 1: but also maybe it'll be a little gay. I obviously
Speaker 1: wasn't using the word gay at that time in my life,
Speaker 1: but I thought maybe I would get a crossover. And
Speaker 1: I saw it, I rented it, and then I proceeded
Speaker 1: to rent it like maybe every week for the next
Speaker 1: two months. Instead of just asking to fucking buy movie.
Speaker 1: You like, sunk fifty dollars into the Empire Record industrial complex.
Speaker 1: They needed the money. They lost a lot of money.
Speaker 1: They absolutely lost a lot of fucking cash. But I
Speaker 1: made up for at least within two months of Blockbuster
Speaker 1: video fees. Um and I rented it over and over.
Speaker 1: I watched it, and I just loved it because at
Speaker 1: the time, I was trying to insert myself into movies.
Speaker 1: I've always loved films and stuff like that, but at
Speaker 1: that time in my life, I was trying to like
Speaker 1: insert myself in some way into that world of whatever
Speaker 1: movie I was watching, so it's epically teen films. And
Speaker 1: I have an obsession still to this day with movies
Speaker 1: that take place in one day, because it's easier for
Speaker 1: me to put myself inside of that world if it's
Speaker 1: just one day, Like what would I wear? Which one
Speaker 1: of these characters would I be friends with? So like
Speaker 1: in Ferris Bueller, two hundred Cigarettes, the Breakfast Club, Mall Rats,
Speaker 1: all those movies one day and say with Empire Records,
Speaker 1: and then I just got obsessed with the storyline. And
Speaker 1: then I was like thirteen or something when I tried
Speaker 1: to like go and work at this record store in Ferndale, Michigan.
Speaker 1: I'm from Detroit, and they were like a year thirteen,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, but I've been watching this
Speaker 1: fucking movie man, and I like really want to work
Speaker 1: at a record store. And they were like, you're you
Speaker 1: can't work here. So you were like the Warren. I
Speaker 1: was absolutely Warren, and I Warren is a wild character,
Speaker 1: but he's probably like my second favorite character in the movie.
Speaker 1: But that's my connection with it, my love it to
Speaker 1: this day. And then you wrote a wonderful piece on
Speaker 1: the film in which you discuss your connection with it.
Speaker 1: And the friendship between Gina and Corey. And yeah, well
Speaker 1: we'll very excited to get into that. We'll talk about that,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, well we're so excited to discuss further, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what's your relationship with this movie? No history with this movie.
Speaker 1: I had not seen it before, which I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess I am having kind of a tricky time
Speaker 1: knowing and like, how popular is this movie. I know
Speaker 1: that it was like a flop on release and then
Speaker 1: it has become kind of a cult classic, but I
Speaker 1: don't I'm like, I don't know how many people I
Speaker 1: know have seen this movie if I'm unusual for having
Speaker 1: not seen it. There are so many famous people and
Speaker 1: it also so I hadn't seen this movie. I've got
Speaker 1: such intense whiplash watching it. But there were parts I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed and and learning about I think I may
Speaker 1: be like learning about the production of this movie even
Speaker 1: more than I liked the movie itself, because it's just
Speaker 1: such a wild story and once you know, like basically
Speaker 1: for for listeners who are not familiar with it, it's
Speaker 1: this movie was just like hacked to death by studio executives.
Speaker 1: It was originally forty minutes longer. I guess they cut
Speaker 1: three major characters. I have some guesses. Is it what
Speaker 1: they are that Lady Jane. I feel like I had
Speaker 1: to have had something else, Like you can just see it,
Speaker 1: like there was a really, really like good script at
Speaker 1: some point, and then they just cut out whole chunks
Speaker 1: of it. So then you get stuff like liv Tyler
Speaker 1: is addicted to pills, and it's like, there's only ten
Speaker 1: minutes left in the movie, what are you talking about, um, etcetera.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was a chaotic, weird wild ride.
Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about it. Caitlin, what's your
Speaker 1: history with Empire Records? I also had no history. I
Speaker 1: thought I had seen this movie. I thought this is
Speaker 1: one of those movies that I like watched in college
Speaker 1: because I was like, I have to watch all these
Speaker 1: you know, cult classics and all this stuff. And I
Speaker 1: think I had just seen a bunch of similar movies,
Speaker 1: such as Reality Bites, Small Rats, High Fidelity, Dazed and Confused, maybe,
Speaker 1: like I'd seen all those and I just thought, this
Speaker 1: is a lot of Rene's Elwigger movies. Really, But then
Speaker 1: I started watching the movie and none of it was
Speaker 1: familiar and I realized I in fact had never seen it, So, um,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be the villain of the episode.
Speaker 1: But I do like the movie, especially from like a
Speaker 1: screenwriting standpoint, and we'll talk about how the story that unfolds,
Speaker 1: and as kind of like muddled and random and like
Speaker 1: whiplashy as it often gets, it's like not the fault
Speaker 1: of the screenwriter, because, like you said, Jamie, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of studio notes and and changes and also like
Speaker 1: post product action changes that made the from a screenwriting
Speaker 1: point of view, the story really right, which which tell
Speaker 1: you like laid out really clearly in in your piece
Speaker 1: as well of just like how much was hacked out
Speaker 1: of this A lot of stuff went through it because
Speaker 1: I got to talk to Carol Hypening, so I got
Speaker 1: to talk to like the writer and everything about it,
Speaker 1: and it was really cool and she was telling me
Speaker 1: just like and woke get into it obviously, but like
Speaker 1: just how hacked up the movie ended up being like
Speaker 1: for the audience when it actually came out versus the
Speaker 1: cult classic when like maybe ten years later when people
Speaker 1: like me found it and like still loved it. But
Speaker 1: it went through a lot. It went through a lot
Speaker 1: so just like watching the movie with having no nostalgia
Speaker 1: attached to it, having never seen it, watching it for
Speaker 1: the first time in two as a person in my
Speaker 1: mid thirties, I don't have quite the same attachment to it.
Speaker 1: It was rooting for Mitch, it was, it was rooting
Speaker 1: for Mitch. Was like, yeah, music Town, She's like making
Speaker 1: up a day store again. Music sucks, Tower Records me.
Speaker 1: That's what I want. Capitalism, Yes, I do love I
Speaker 1: mean that nineties convention where they're like, capitalism is one
Speaker 1: guy exactly capitalism. It's just this one person in and
Speaker 1: he wants to sail toilets, so and he's not that bad,
Speaker 1: and You're like, what is happening? I love it. So
Speaker 1: the movie isn't necessarily for me, but there's a lot
Speaker 1: to talk about, so I'm excited to get into it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess I will attempt to recap the movie good Luck.
Speaker 1: I think will be the greatest challenge of my career.
Speaker 1: Shelley jump in. Whenever you you know the text, I
Speaker 1: refuse because I've been like listening and I've been being like,
Speaker 1: okay during the recap, shut the buck up, and I
Speaker 1: will probably chime in two to seven times. But like,
Speaker 1: other than that, I don't think this is going to
Speaker 1: be a very long recap. Is also that it's longer
Speaker 1: than you think. Oh my gosh. Yeah, but there's all
Speaker 1: these things that happened, and then it's like, well, it's
Speaker 1: never referenced again, but it didn't technically happen. It did
Speaker 1: kind of happen. Yeah, so I'll jump in occasionally. Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: All right, here we go. So we meet Lucas played
Speaker 1: by Rory Cochrane. He is one of the employees of
Speaker 1: Empire Records, which is an indie record store in We're
Speaker 1: not sure what part of the country. He briefly chats
Speaker 1: with his colleague Gina played by Rene's Elwigger about how
Speaker 1: tonight is a big night for him because their boss,
Speaker 1: Joe is trusting Lucas to lock up, which means counting
Speaker 1: the money dropping in to say all that stuff. And
Speaker 1: as he's doing that, Lucas notices some paperwork about a
Speaker 1: corporate buyout of Empire Records by this conglomerate music town.
Speaker 1: This is all like narrated by Lucas in this opening sequence,
Speaker 1: which is it's just one of the many bizarre things
Speaker 1: this movie does that makes me laugh. That kind of
Speaker 1: comes and goes, and there's not really any rules about
Speaker 1: it where he's like narrating it like he's fucking Hunter
Speaker 1: s Thompson. He's like, oh, oh no, we're being bought out.
Speaker 1: And then he was like sometimes I'm like, is he
Speaker 1: talking to camera? And then sometimes people are talking to camera,
Speaker 1: but then most of the time they're not. Sometimes they're
Speaker 1: just talking to themselves. It's so confusing, right, it doesn't
Speaker 1: happen enough to make it a consistent motif, but it does.
Speaker 1: It does happen often enough that you notice it, so
Speaker 1: that I wish it happen more because it's whenever I do,
Speaker 1: like when someone turns to camera, I'm like, that's such
Speaker 1: a goofy choice, and I always like it. It's my
Speaker 1: favorite thing, and it's even more of a thing when
Speaker 1: it's unnecessary, and then in consistent it's even better. If
Speaker 1: it's a mess. I want more of it. So anyway,
Speaker 1: clearly the store is in financial trouble because of this
Speaker 1: like corporate buyout that's about to happen. So Lucas gets
Speaker 1: the idea to take the money that they earned that day.
Speaker 1: I think, or I don't know if it's like all
Speaker 1: the money in the safe. I'm not sure, but it's
Speaker 1: nine thou dollars. Take it to Atlantic City and gamble
Speaker 1: with it to try to earn enough to save the
Speaker 1: store Capitalism. Unfortunately, Lucas loses all of the money and
Speaker 1: then heads out of town the next morning on his motorcycle.
Speaker 1: But don't worry, he'll be He'll be right back. Um.
Speaker 1: But the boss Joe comes into the store. He can't
Speaker 1: find the money. He's freaking out. Meanwhile, we meet the
Speaker 1: other staff as they come into work that day, a
Speaker 1: j played by Johnny Whitworth. Mark played by Ethan embry
Speaker 1: Aj is like this artsy sensitive type. Mark is like
Speaker 1: stoner doofis. We also meet Corey played by Liv Tyler.
Speaker 1: She's like little miss perfect. I'm going to go to
Speaker 1: Harvard and she's wearing that crop top. Yes, she just
Speaker 1: wanted to shout it out. It's important feminist icon blue sweater.
Speaker 1: And then we see Gina again again. That's Renee Selwigger.
Speaker 1: She's like this sloody one quote unquote. They all come
Speaker 1: into work. They are all teenagers, question mark. We're not
Speaker 1: sure how old these people are really, except for Liv Tyler,
Speaker 1: who seems to be a senior in high school, right.
Speaker 1: I think they're like between eighteen and like twenty three four. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so too, because it's really only clear that
Speaker 1: it's her because she's going to hard she's going to Harvard, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Other than that, I think everyone's like un think it
Speaker 1: right because it's like implied that some of them are
Speaker 1: like working at Empire Records instead of going to college
Speaker 1: or something. Don't worry, there's not going to be a
Speaker 1: talk about loans or any people in movies don't have
Speaker 1: college loans. It's just not a thing, right. But they're
Speaker 1: just like I don't know, like do I want to
Speaker 1: keep chilling out here or do I want to go
Speaker 1: to art school in Boston? Like, honestly, as someone who
Speaker 1: did that, don't go to art school in Boston. Keep
Speaker 1: your record store job. You're wasting your fucking money and
Speaker 1: your life. Okay, don't do it. Zero at attention, would
Speaker 1: not do again, and so much debt for no fucking reason.
Speaker 1: Didn't learn a single thing. No, I um as someone
Speaker 1: who went to screenwriting school and got a screenwriting master's degree,
Speaker 1: I mean you use it every week, Caitlyn. I use
Speaker 1: it every single week, every single week. Can I tell
Speaker 1: you how much I wanted you to say that you
Speaker 1: bring not that you bring it up a lot. You know,
Speaker 1: no bigs. I would never, I would never bring it.
Speaker 1: You're not Hanna person. But I'm so excited and hoping
Speaker 1: that you would just occasionally a little bit. There it is,
Speaker 1: and it's true. It's all true. It's all true. Okay.
Speaker 1: So we meet the staff and also that day is
Speaker 1: Rex Manning Day at the store. So a pop star
Speaker 1: named Rex Manning who kind of had his heyday in
Speaker 1: the eighties, it seems, is coming into the store to
Speaker 1: sign autographs and promote his new album. I think they're
Speaker 1: mapping him on like Barry Manila. I was trying to
Speaker 1: is it Barry Manila? Okay, because I was like, visually
Speaker 1: he's giving Barry Manilo. And I do love that he's
Speaker 1: so furious that all of his like listeners are his age.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what did you what did you expect, sir? Leave,
Speaker 1: These mothers are paying your rent. Show some respect. I
Speaker 1: have a whole thing about his fan base in the movie,
Speaker 1: and like what that telegraphs to the audience. Yeah, that's well,
Speaker 1: I mean it's like classic gen X movie like people
Speaker 1: over thirty should die like God, the most annoying generation.
Speaker 1: Sorry to our listeners who are remember of it. I
Speaker 1: mean whatever, our our generation takes plenty of ship. I
Speaker 1: mean maybe every generation is bad, just putting it on,
Speaker 1: wipe out the species. Done. We've had our chance and
Speaker 1: we blew it as humans. Whatever, Millennials and we have
Speaker 1: ugly pants like, it's fine. Whatever. Our generation never figured
Speaker 1: out pants, and I stand by that. I really just don't.
Speaker 1: I think we tried like several times to like get
Speaker 1: down pants that would work on more than one body
Speaker 1: type conceptually, and we just like kept fumbling it into
Speaker 1: an interesting way. Excuse me, my boot cut flair legs
Speaker 1: from American Eagle. We're awesome. I'm wearing skinny jeans that
Speaker 1: I glued to my body and I think that they
Speaker 1: actually look and feel really comfortable. Just like, alright, we
Speaker 1: we fucked up pants? Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay. So we
Speaker 1: established that it's Rex Manning day. Corey wants to lose
Speaker 1: her virginity to Rex Manning while he's there. We also
Speaker 1: learned that a J is secretly in love with Corey,
Speaker 1: and today is the day that he plans to tell her.
Speaker 1: We meet another employee who comes in, Deborah, played by
Speaker 1: Robin Tuney. She comes in, she shaves her head, She
Speaker 1: has a bandage on her wrist, which some of the
Speaker 1: other staff notices. She also has a pretty antagonistic relationship
Speaker 1: with many other members of the staff, especially Corey and Gina. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a guy's guy. I feel that's fun of the
Speaker 1: more frustrating things about this movie, where it's like, there's
Speaker 1: there's clearly was so much more to Deb's story, our
Speaker 1: devs ory at one point, and it it just feels
Speaker 1: so obvious that so much of it went away, And
Speaker 1: it's like, I want, I want this context of why
Speaker 1: you struggle to connect with other women, because I feel
Speaker 1: like it would have landed so much better. When she's
Speaker 1: it seems like she has issues with her mom, and
Speaker 1: I just I was like, Oh, there was a story
Speaker 1: in there, but we didn't we didn't get to see
Speaker 1: it anyways. Um. Then Lucas shows back up the guy
Speaker 1: who had taken the nine thousand dollars at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the movie. Joe is like, where's my money, and
Speaker 1: Lucas tells Joe that it is recirculating in Atlantic City,
Speaker 1: which is very funny. Then Joe is like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: what the hell? And he considers calling the cops and
Speaker 1: pressing charges against Lucas, but he does not do that
Speaker 1: because fathers and sons. I can't do that. And then
Speaker 1: Joe explains that he had gotten together enough money to
Speaker 1: buy the store from the owner, this guy Mitch a
Speaker 1: Mr Capitalism, Mr Capitalism, and this would have allowed Joe
Speaker 1: to stop Mitch from selling the store to Music Town.
Speaker 1: But now he can't do that because this nine thou
Speaker 1: dollars is gone because apparently it costs nine only nine
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Like where do they live? And that's the thing,
Speaker 1: especially because he comes back so fast, like even if
Speaker 1: he gets back the next day, like where are they?
Speaker 1: But then also they're like on this like really pretty seaside,
Speaker 1: because when Mark goes out to take a break, you
Speaker 1: see that, and then when I go pick up Corey,
Speaker 1: you see all that. I don't know, but it only
Speaker 1: costs nine thousand dollars to save a record store, so
Speaker 1: not to save, but to buy. Right, that has like
Speaker 1: beach front property, yeah, and three floors, right, so much
Speaker 1: square footage, so much square footage. It's downtown. There's three floors.
Speaker 1: It's beach front property. It has a beautiful smoke break
Speaker 1: section and a place for staff to live because Berkele
Speaker 1: lives back there. Oh wait, I didn't even realize that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he like comes from back and so I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's a very good live work space for nine thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: So that is so funny because I and again I'm like,
Speaker 1: I also like jen X, don't yell at me. I
Speaker 1: love you guys. It's all good. But like, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: what are you guys so upset about it costs nine
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to have a three floor house downtown, Like
Speaker 1: enjoy it? Well at last, bit like, what are you
Speaker 1: so mad about? Anyways? I don't know, man, it's all
Speaker 1: man the man. Shuck the man. The man. Mr Cavilism
Speaker 1: is peeing on my floor like ass like all right, okay. So,
Speaker 1: because Lucas lost this nine thousand dollars, Joe has no
Speaker 1: choice but to transition the store into a music town
Speaker 1: very soon, which means that they would have to again
Speaker 1: answer to the man, they'd lose the cool indie vibe
Speaker 1: of the store, they'd have to follow all these strict rules,
Speaker 1: so no one who works at Empire Records is happy
Speaker 1: about this, which is true. I mean I like that,
Speaker 1: like this is like all based on Tower Records and
Speaker 1: like that whole story and like saving Indian like that
Speaker 1: end of stuff. I'm like, oh, that's like very compelling
Speaker 1: and cool, and places like that truly do not exist anymore.
Speaker 1: Like Tower Records I think been out of business and
Speaker 1: like oh five or something. Yeah, I mean it reminds
Speaker 1: me of working at like an indie alts comedy venue,
Speaker 1: which I did for several years, and like the vibe
Speaker 1: and the camaraderie with your fellow staff, and that was
Speaker 1: my favorite aspect of the movie. But um, yeah, so
Speaker 1: I get I get that. Yeah, So what's the next
Speaker 1: scene that happens? Because it's truly just like and then
Speaker 1: another scene happens so hard to keep track of, but
Speaker 1: I think it's that Lucas stops a shoplifter, Warren, who
Speaker 1: is trying to steal a bunch of CDs. The staff
Speaker 1: shames Warren and then they make him stick around just
Speaker 1: sitting on a couch while they wait for the cops
Speaker 1: to show up. I was just like, there is this
Speaker 1: weird like no exit vibe to that room. Like it's
Speaker 1: just kind of like Empire Records Purgatory, where it's like,
Speaker 1: if you're in trouble, you just have to sit in
Speaker 1: this room and you could leave at any time, but
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you don't, right, yeah, yeah, because Joe
Speaker 1: is like, Lucas, you stole nine dollars from me, Well,
Speaker 1: gosh darn it, you better sit on this couch and
Speaker 1: don't you dare get up from that couch, And then
Speaker 1: Lucas just stays on the couch for like the first
Speaker 1: half of the movie. Daddy said, so okay. So then,
Speaker 1: so the people are lining up for Rex Manning day.
Speaker 1: Rex Manning shows up with someone who might be his assistant,
Speaker 1: it might be his publicist. We're not really sure what
Speaker 1: Jane's job is. I'm convinced this is one of the
Speaker 1: characters that got super super cut down because she seems
Speaker 1: like there yeaheah, and it's sad here too, which is
Speaker 1: justing like incredible. Who I'd like to nominate for the
Speaker 1: Eyebrow Hall of Fame to this day, Yes, yes, Like
Speaker 1: if you see her on Younger where she plays like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, the coolest dyke in the world. Um,
Speaker 1: eyebrows are still like, I'm like doing a rewatch of
Speaker 1: Younger right now. Um, but she's like incredible eyebrows. But
Speaker 1: also in nineteen Nighties, like she had beautiful nine eyebrows.
Speaker 1: She did. Yeah, she's I It took me until her
Speaker 1: second appearance in Empire Records to be like, she's from Younger, Younger,
Speaker 1: Underrated baby, underrated show. She's so great. Yeah, that character.
Speaker 1: Like again, I mean, so many characters are full chaos,
Speaker 1: but her in particular, where she's like there and then
Speaker 1: she has a scene and then she's like I quit.
Speaker 1: But she says I quit to Joe, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: do you work for him? And then later she comes
Speaker 1: back and she's like, Okay, Joe, I want to go
Speaker 1: on a date with you. And I was like, how
Speaker 1: old are any of these characters? I don't understand how
Speaker 1: do they know each other? I thought that they were
Speaker 1: meeting at the beginning of that our thought so too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but apparently Empire Records is going to Empire Records in
Speaker 1: that I don't know what the funk is happening at
Speaker 1: any given point in the movie. Oh gosh, Okay, So
Speaker 1: Rex starts signing autographs. He seems very resentful that His
Speaker 1: fan base is largely middle aged women. Mostly. Everyone who
Speaker 1: works at Empire Records thinks that Rex Manning sucks and
Speaker 1: Jane is like, oh, yeah, I guess he does suck.
Speaker 1: I quit working for him, but I'm going to tell
Speaker 1: Joe and not Rex and tell someone unrelated. Then another
Speaker 1: employee shows up Burko. He and Deborrah seem to have
Speaker 1: some history. There's also been other scenes, you know, scattered
Speaker 1: throughout the movie of things like stuff putting on music
Speaker 1: and dancing around the store, quick conversations between various characters
Speaker 1: to establish more of their like relationship dynamic, other random
Speaker 1: things here and there. Those scenes are fun. I love
Speaker 1: the concept of Veto. That was my one of my favorite.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that is such a record store,
Speaker 1: Like it's so cool and definitely something I tried to
Speaker 1: implement in drama club and in high school, except no
Speaker 1: one fucking you know what I was talking about. So
Speaker 1: I just like, I had to eat my bag of
Speaker 1: skittles and I was like, it's fine. Just because you
Speaker 1: guys don't know film doesn't mean that that has anything
Speaker 1: to do with me. But whatever, They're like, what is
Speaker 1: Shreky talking about? Shreky, please sit down, and I was
Speaker 1: just like, you know what, in about ten years, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have my day about this movie. So it'll be fine.
Speaker 1: But also click side note, the guy who played Burko
Speaker 1: was Live tyler stepdad at the time. Yes, oh, Coyote
Speaker 1: Shivers is his name? Yeah, of course. Okay, first of all,
Speaker 1: of course, Live Tyler. How's a stepdad named Coyote. I've
Speaker 1: never been less shocked in my life. Live Tyler's had
Speaker 1: such a wildlife. I was gonna say, if you ever
Speaker 1: have an opportunity, you just want to go for a
Speaker 1: quick ride on Wikipedia, go to Live Tyler's Wikipedia page.
Speaker 1: It's a roller coaster. Sometimes it's like sometimes I get
Speaker 1: annoyed at nepotism stuff, and then you read Live Tyler's
Speaker 1: Wikipedia page and it's like she deserves everything she has
Speaker 1: because she's been through enough. There is so much weirdness
Speaker 1: in that poor woman's life. And and if you want
Speaker 1: a real journey of the spirit, watch Live Tyler's Architectural
Speaker 1: Digest video because it's like she's a weird lady. Do
Speaker 1: you okay? This is taking I love a good Kismet moment. Sorry, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: just like, um, can you all shut this is my
Speaker 1: seventh and final interruption. By the way, don't limit yourself.
Speaker 1: I hate this. Was making my partner watch Architectural Digest videos.
Speaker 1: We've been watching them all morning and it started because
Speaker 1: I was like, let's watch Little Tyler like and we've
Speaker 1: been watching them older. It's my favorite one because I
Speaker 1: want it. I want it all right. Sorry, back to
Speaker 1: the insane plot that is Empire. I don't know where
Speaker 1: we are in it, but I don't know. You love
Speaker 1: Tyler and Dakota Johnson, two weird nepotisms giving the Architectural
Speaker 1: Digest tours of a lifetime. You're just like, oh, no
Speaker 1: one's ever told you that you're weird before because you're
Speaker 1: so beautiful and you grew up with so much money.
Speaker 1: But you're being so weird right now with Tyler. But
Speaker 1: you're fucking weird, man. Yeah, I love it. Okay. Um.
Speaker 1: The next thing that happens is Mitch, the guy who
Speaker 1: owns Empire Records, shows up to pick up yesterday's money.
Speaker 1: Joe decides not to rat Lucas out for stealing it,
Speaker 1: and instead, Joe stuffs the like money pouch thing full
Speaker 1: of scrap paper to make it seem like it's full
Speaker 1: of cash, and then he gives that to Mitch. Then
Speaker 1: Corey insists on fixing lunch for Rex Manning because that's
Speaker 1: going to be her opportunity to seduce him, which she
Speaker 1: tries to do and he's basically like, okay, well you
Speaker 1: can suck my dick, and then she realizes like, oh no, yeah.
Speaker 1: She feels humiliated. She runs up to the roof, where
Speaker 1: she bumps into a J who finally professes his love
Speaker 1: for her, but she is distraught and she wants to
Speaker 1: be alone, so he leaves feeling very rejected. Then Gina
Speaker 1: tries to comfort Corey about this Rex Manning thing, but
Speaker 1: Corey ends up aggressively slut shaming Gina. So then Gina
Speaker 1: decides to seduce Rex Manning and she has sex with him.
Speaker 1: While that's going on, Corey goes up to a J
Speaker 1: and says, I'm sorry I freaked out before, but I
Speaker 1: just don't think of you like that. You're my best friend,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that's news to me because I thought
Speaker 1: your best friend was Gina or what, like, are you
Speaker 1: friends at all? We haven't seen you talk on screen yet.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that, I was like, I'm sure that they
Speaker 1: I thought they. I feel like the movie was like
Speaker 1: and she doesn't even know I exist. But then she's like,
Speaker 1: you're my best friend. I was like, she doesn't. She
Speaker 1: just wants nothing to do with you. Very Maniloian enough
Speaker 1: for her, apparently, I guess, but yeah, I know. And
Speaker 1: then it was like she at the I mean, whatever,
Speaker 1: things are about to get so out of control. But
Speaker 1: she's like, you're such a talented artist. And I was like,
Speaker 1: have we seen him do any art? Do we know
Speaker 1: why his art looks like what is he? Eddy good
Speaker 1: fluide some quarters to the floor called that art? We
Speaker 1: do see him like sketching some things here and there,
Speaker 1: and he don't seem to be a pretty talented artist,
Speaker 1: so I'll allow it. But good for him. That scene
Speaker 1: did remind me of what is it when like Steve's
Speaker 1: on Cat from Stuart Little, or someone's like fresh friend,
Speaker 1: best friend, there, role, move over, every everything he's ever done.
Speaker 1: Steven'son as Cat from Stewart Little is so funny. Noble,
Speaker 1: you're my best friend? Oh my god, it's so funny.
Speaker 1: He should he could have been. He could have been
Speaker 1: in this movie. He would have fit into this world.
Speaker 1: Alfred Molina could have played Joe, yeah, because with his
Speaker 1: name and Joe is played by Anthony Lapolio Paglia Apolia.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I did not know who this man was,
Speaker 1: but I did figure out halfway through that he is
Speaker 1: definitely Australian because he kept forgetting that his character wasn't Australian,
Speaker 1: where he just like it was a little thing when
Speaker 1: he was just like, I forget. He was like talking
Speaker 1: to Lucas about something and he's like, you give the
Speaker 1: money back. You're like, whoa wait, hold on, where are we? Oh?
Speaker 1: I kept being like, I know that's not Bill Pullman,
Speaker 1: but is it Bill Pullman? Yeah? Big Bill Pullman wasn't
Speaker 1: available vibes, I mean, Okay. So Corey has told a
Speaker 1: j she thinks of him as her best friend and
Speaker 1: that's why she's not interested in him romantically, and he's
Speaker 1: like that's bullshit and he storms off, and then we
Speaker 1: see Corey take a pill, which I think is the
Speaker 1: first time we've seen her do that, the implication being
Speaker 1: that she is like dealing with addiction or you know,
Speaker 1: drug abuse issues. So then there's a scene where the
Speaker 1: entire store starts dancing to Rex Manning's song while Rex
Speaker 1: Manning and Gina are having sex in another room. But
Speaker 1: then Joe comes down into the store and he's like, well,
Speaker 1: enjoy this while you can, because this time next week
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a music town. He just like
Speaker 1: runs downstairs and it's like steaks and you're like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. But there there's enough stakes we need to
Speaker 1: like finish the storyline, don't start another one. And this
Speaker 1: is when he gets really angry at Lucas and punches him.
Speaker 1: He beats up. From my screenwriting standpoint, this movie, the
Speaker 1: inciting incident happens like three minutes into the movie, which
Speaker 1: it's more standard for that to be like fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: into a feature length film, So it happens right away
Speaker 1: before there's any exposition, before we know anything about anyone,
Speaker 1: We get the inciting incident. Then there are there's a
Speaker 1: full i would say, sixty to seventy minutes of after
Speaker 1: this conflict of compelling conflict being established of like we
Speaker 1: have to save the store, but oh no, the money
Speaker 1: is lost. What do we do to recoup that money
Speaker 1: and save the store? That conflict basically goes away for
Speaker 1: like sixty to seventy minutes, and then at the very end,
Speaker 1: which we're getting too soon. He's like, remember the movie,
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, I don't, but I'm having
Speaker 1: so much fun being confused. Okay, so but before we
Speaker 1: get to the very end, so um Joe assaults Lucas,
Speaker 1: but their fight quickly blows over, and then everyone finds
Speaker 1: out that Gina is having sex with Rex Manning, including Corey,
Speaker 1: who feels especially betrayed. So then a J attacks Rex Manning,
Speaker 1: and then a J gets punched another another teenager or
Speaker 1: like young person getting punched by a full adult man.
Speaker 1: Then they kick Rex out of the store. Gina and
Speaker 1: Corey get into a screaming match. Gina outs Corey's drug abuse.
Speaker 1: Corey starts trashing the store, but then her coworkers stop her.
Speaker 1: She calms down, and then Debrah provides some emotional support
Speaker 1: to Corey. They have a nice moment together. Then several
Speaker 1: random scenes where we see Mark eating we brownies and
Speaker 1: fantasizing about being in Aguar music video, where it always
Speaker 1: just feels like sometimes this movie just does stuff where
Speaker 1: I feel like they're like, so that was pretty heavy, right,
Speaker 1: here's a here's a little palate cleanser, And I remember
Speaker 1: watching that the first time, and I actually every time
Speaker 1: I rented it, and honestly still when I watched it
Speaker 1: to this day, I passed forward through that scene. Now
Speaker 1: a little bit, it's a little bit more blended, as like,
Speaker 1: I guess now that I do like culture writing and
Speaker 1: critiquing of films and stuff like that, but honestly, most
Speaker 1: of it is just because I hate it. It makes
Speaker 1: no sense, it doesn't need to be there, and I
Speaker 1: hate every moment of that. It's the worst shot out
Speaker 1: of everything they cut out of everything that's on the
Speaker 1: cutting room floor. The final this movie, they were like,
Speaker 1: now that stays, don't you touch it? And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess, Well probably because they like paid guar. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess. And then they're like, well, we can't just
Speaker 1: have wasted that money, So I bet that that is it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what a mess. I'm laughing. What a mess. So then
Speaker 1: Jane comes back. She asks Joe out for dinner and
Speaker 1: he's like, sounds great. Then the staff has a mock
Speaker 1: funeral for Deborah, during which everyone you know, divuloges some
Speaker 1: personal things. They bond with each other, and this is
Speaker 1: also when Gina shows back up and she and Corey makeup.
Speaker 1: I love a good plot resolution via well timed eavesdrop
Speaker 1: where she just happens to walk in the room and
Speaker 1: lived Tyler was like, I miss Gina. I love her
Speaker 1: so much. She's so she's a She's the woman I
Speaker 1: can never be. And then Gina's like no, And then
Speaker 1: Gina says what her stakes were the whole time? Apparently
Speaker 1: where she walks in, she's like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be like my mother. You're like, who's your mother? And
Speaker 1: she's like, I want to be a singer. I was like,
Speaker 1: you do. And then one scene later she's a singer
Speaker 1: and we're like, good for her. I guess, like yeah.
Speaker 1: Um So then Warren, the kid who had tried to
Speaker 1: shoplift from the store, comes back with a gun and
Speaker 1: starts shooting the store up, but it's okay because they're blanks.
Speaker 1: It is. It turns out he just wanted to work
Speaker 1: at the record store the whole time. What is happening like,
Speaker 1: which is like the most white teenager with a gun
Speaker 1: thing ever to to just have it be like, oh,
Speaker 1: he was just having a bad day. It's all good.
Speaker 1: Let's give him a job at the record store and
Speaker 1: that'll help, but you're just like, no, no, don't do that.
Speaker 1: It's mind boggling. But yeah, he gets taken away by
Speaker 1: the cops again sort of, but they're just like, well,
Speaker 1: the gun was filled with blanks and he's a miner,
Speaker 1: so we can't really do anything. And then in the
Speaker 1: next scene he's back at the store working and also
Speaker 1: drinking and drinking, and even though he's like fifteen or something, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's real little like I just don't know what was happening. Like,
Speaker 1: there did reach a point where I was just like,
Speaker 1: my brain is smooth, like anything could happen. And so
Speaker 1: when it goes to like she's on pills, the store
Speaker 1: is going to close down. I love you. I don't
Speaker 1: want to be like my mom, we're doing a fake
Speaker 1: funeral now someone shooting up the store. You're just like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess, but a weird day. That was me watching it.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, okay, cool, Like when I first
Speaker 1: saw it was the tracks. I want to go work
Speaker 1: out a record store. Actually, so Floren could. He's thirteen, apparently,
Speaker 1: so why can't I Right, Yeah, who can't? Who can't
Speaker 1: get a job at this place? And you'll never get
Speaker 1: fired despite all the really wild things. Joe needs to
Speaker 1: be daddy. Oh gosh. Okay, So Warren coming back with
Speaker 1: a gun actually comes plot relevant because then news anchors
Speaker 1: show up to report on the story. So then Mark
Speaker 1: jumps into the newscast to promote a fundraiser event that
Speaker 1: the store is going to hold that night, which I
Speaker 1: guess Mark just decided, Oh, let's do a fundraiser. So
Speaker 1: they put it together. A bunch of people show up,
Speaker 1: They have a big party. Gina Burko and some other
Speaker 1: guy play live music. Everyone's dancing there, drinking. Uh. They
Speaker 1: raise a bunch of money, and then Mitch the owner
Speaker 1: shows up again and he's like, what is going on?
Speaker 1: And then Joe takes the money they raised and buys
Speaker 1: the store from Mitch for again ballpark of nine thousand
Speaker 1: dollars salad maybe two d seventy four dollars. I don't know, yeah,
Speaker 1: because there's not there's not nine thousand dollars in that
Speaker 1: not like bucket thing. Yeah, there's maybe a grand talk.
Speaker 1: Maybe Buddy buys the store from Mitch. Nonetheless, and so
Speaker 1: everyone is celebrating. Corey goes to a j and screams
Speaker 1: at him and pushes him and hits him, telling him
Speaker 1: you're so talented and you need to go to art school.
Speaker 1: And he's like, okay, I'll go to art school and
Speaker 1: I'm going to go in Boston so I can be
Speaker 1: near you when you're at Harvard, and she's like awesome.
Speaker 1: And then they kiss and she goes really that they kiss,
Speaker 1: and you're like, I did I forgot that they knew
Speaker 1: each other. Um and then and then the movie ends
Speaker 1: with everyone dancing on the roof, which is fun. So
Speaker 1: that's the story. Let's take a quick break and we
Speaker 1: will come back to discuss and we're back. Okay, what
Speaker 1: is hello? Like? What? Well? Shelly? Yeah, Shelly, kick us up?
Speaker 1: What do you what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 1: Because I'm like, I mean, here's the thing, like, as
Speaker 1: I watched this movie, like I've watched this with completely
Speaker 1: different eyes at first. And that's why when I talk
Speaker 1: about the movie, I know every single one of its
Speaker 1: faults that it has. Like don't get me wrong, but
Speaker 1: there are certain movies that I'm not excusing some of them.
Speaker 1: A lot of the faults on this I am like,
Speaker 1: it's fine, I don't care perfect, But other ones I
Speaker 1: am like, what, like, you know, with like Corey and
Speaker 1: Rex Manning and all that kind of stuff. But as
Speaker 1: chaotic as it is, I think it for me, I
Speaker 1: love it because again it's one day, and it makes
Speaker 1: so much sense to me appear that even the cut
Speaker 1: of it so much can happen in a day, like
Speaker 1: if we were to cut up our own one day
Speaker 1: my Friday, Like we were talking about all the craziness
Speaker 1: that I had with like breaking my computer, and then
Speaker 1: I could all this stuff. It's a bunch of smash cuts,
Speaker 1: and this film is a bunch of essentially a bunch
Speaker 1: of small pets of stories with a really good soundtrack
Speaker 1: and a lot of it can be excused the other ones.
Speaker 1: I just kind of live in that film world when
Speaker 1: I watch it and I'm like, everything's fine. That one
Speaker 1: gift that will Cat or whatever sitting with the flames
Speaker 1: behind him, that's me watching this movie and I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's fine, It's fine totally, And I like, so We've
Speaker 1: been dunking on the like plot of the movie pretty
Speaker 1: hard throughout the recap and stuff, but at its core,
Speaker 1: it's a movie about like a ragtag group of misfits
Speaker 1: who come together. They found a community at this store
Speaker 1: they have fairly interesting relationship dynamics among them. And that's
Speaker 1: a very relatable story from many, many people. And that's
Speaker 1: the reason this movie has developed such a cult following.
Speaker 1: It's you know, it really speaks to anyone who might
Speaker 1: feel like an oddball or anyone who is drawn to
Speaker 1: the idea of a chosen family exactly and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So I totally get that. I enjoyed that aspect of
Speaker 1: the movie. And then there's also like the anti corporate
Speaker 1: we have to maintain the integrity of this cool India space,
Speaker 1: you know, screw the man down with the establishment, which
Speaker 1: in the form that it takes in this movie is
Speaker 1: a very like nineties gen X, Like that's exactly it
Speaker 1: version that of Like, you know, as long as I
Speaker 1: can work in this indie record store without the man
Speaker 1: breathing down my neck, I don't really care what else
Speaker 1: is going on in the world. I don't have I
Speaker 1: don't have time for more pressing social issues. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: just want to listen to guns and roses man and why.
Speaker 1: And I just want to eat skittles and burn CDs,
Speaker 1: and I just want to live on this cow to
Speaker 1: carry it around with me. And I don't care about
Speaker 1: anything else that's happening in the world. But the whole
Speaker 1: my whole world is this store, this that I or
Speaker 1: wait open to midnight. Sorry, yeah, and my records open
Speaker 1: until midnight. Can I tell you how many times I
Speaker 1: answered my house phone like that, And so my dad
Speaker 1: was like, we're done, We're finished, We're not doing this anymore. Also,
Speaker 1: I would answer my phone hello, Fawlty Towers, any show
Speaker 1: that had to pick up. I was just like, nice, yeah,
Speaker 1: weird time in the household with me anyway. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it was just like so nineties space, and
Speaker 1: I was always obsessed with the nineties, like you can
Speaker 1: be like born in a time but not be an
Speaker 1: adult in that time. And I was like, that's how
Speaker 1: it is, and that's how it's gonna that's how it was,
Speaker 1: that's what I missed, and that's what it's going to
Speaker 1: be like when I'm a grown up too. So that's
Speaker 1: why I just was like, this is dope. Yeah, sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it does feel so like of its time
Speaker 1: in a way that it's like kind of fun and
Speaker 1: nostalgic where I'm just like, you know, with these characters,
Speaker 1: it's it's so funny, it was what is the I
Speaker 1: always forget the name of it, the Matthew Lillard movie
Speaker 1: about selling out and it's about the man slunk. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: selc Punk. I feel like it's a more self aware
Speaker 1: version of this storyline where it's like very clear by
Speaker 1: looking at like and also just like knowing how generations
Speaker 1: tend to pan out of like half of these kids
Speaker 1: are going to be like Wall Street bankers and cause
Speaker 1: the recession. But this is their moment. Corey is going
Speaker 1: to Harvard, right, you know, Like no, yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: things are like not gonna you know, and then you
Speaker 1: know a j or is that Yeah, Like he's gonna
Speaker 1: like change to business major one semester in and they're
Speaker 1: going to be the most boring people to ever ever live.
Speaker 1: And you know whatever, no offense to business majors ecept
Speaker 1: actually I don't think I actually think offense because like
Speaker 1: what do you Yeah, you should go to art school
Speaker 1: like me, Why did you get a master's green screenwriting? Hello? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're the moral authority of the fucking planet. Anyway. It's
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's so nineties and I mean, but
Speaker 1: so much of like you reference us in your piece
Speaker 1: Shelley of like how it seems like this story had
Speaker 1: really good bones, and those bones were just like repeatedly
Speaker 1: like a crowbar was taken to the bones by the editors,
Speaker 1: And like I was fascinated to find out that um
Speaker 1: in the original draft of this movie, Corey was not
Speaker 1: trying to lose her virginity at all. She was just
Speaker 1: a big fan of Rex. And I think what kind
Speaker 1: of like blew me with that too, like all the
Speaker 1: different changes that I could find. And also when I
Speaker 1: did interview Carol, I didn't I didn't want to interview
Speaker 1: her in a sense of being like, how did this
Speaker 1: end up this way? You feel me? I did, but
Speaker 1: I had so many of those questions that I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask, but she kind of just like let it
Speaker 1: out anyway and told me a lot of different things.
Speaker 1: But what was a big part of a lot of
Speaker 1: the changes to this movie, honestly was clueless, Like there
Speaker 1: was already so many high school movies either in production
Speaker 1: and posts being made, scripts had already been bought that
Speaker 1: they were trying to like stand out in some way,
Speaker 1: and this is already a movie about a rag tag
Speaker 1: bunch of emo kids, And I don't know East Jesus
Speaker 1: Nowhere Seattle like, and they couldn't figure out what to
Speaker 1: do with it, and so they cut it up. They
Speaker 1: tore it apart. And then when I think they tried
Speaker 1: to bring it back on was the music, Because who
Speaker 1: would watch this movie, right, the kids that think they
Speaker 1: hear certain songs first, the kids that think that they're
Speaker 1: the only one who knows like one band and things
Speaker 1: like that. But even that couldn't save it at the
Speaker 1: box office. It had to wait years for us to
Speaker 1: find it for me and to be like, this is
Speaker 1: the most important movie of all times, so right, Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm also interested to hear more about something you talk
Speaker 1: a lot about in your piece which was published in
Speaker 1: Marie Claire entitled Old Empire Records helped Me understand my queerness,
Speaker 1: and you site the friendship between Gina and Corey you
Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, I don't know if it was
Speaker 1: like a shipping thing necessarily, but like you drew inspiration
Speaker 1: from that in terms of like that powerful friendship and
Speaker 1: that was sort of like the basis of what you
Speaker 1: were kind of looking for in romantic relationships. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I'd love to hear you speak more about that. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it was because like when I was watching at that time,
Speaker 1: this is like middle school, and like all of us, right,
Speaker 1: had shitty time in middle school. But I always say,
Speaker 1: like my middle school experience just by hey, it's terrible, right,
Speaker 1: And I used, I was ready to get out, But
Speaker 1: you're in sixth grade. You have two more years left,
Speaker 1: you know, You're like, but the only way out was
Speaker 1: through movies like this and the teen movies that I
Speaker 1: would watch about high school, because I would be like,
Speaker 1: this is what's coming next for me, And this isn't
Speaker 1: only what's gonna come next to me with friends, Maybe
Speaker 1: this is what comes next to me for like romantic
Speaker 1: kind of ships to you know. But I was never
Speaker 1: really attaching. I wasn't looking for queerness in this film.
Speaker 1: I was just looking. I loved watching movies where girls
Speaker 1: were best friends because like I didn't have really like
Speaker 1: a best friend that was just like that close, you know.
Speaker 1: And then when I started to grow up and I
Speaker 1: went to apology and stuff like that, I learned about
Speaker 1: the lesbian or queer girl trope where they're like all
Speaker 1: lesbians or queer girls like end up falling in love
Speaker 1: with their best friends. You know what I mean, whether
Speaker 1: it's reciprocated or not. And I had never fallen in
Speaker 1: love with any friend except for one girl in like
Speaker 1: elementary school, where I realized that I was queer. But
Speaker 1: when I was watching this specific movie, this was the
Speaker 1: first one where the two best friends had like a
Speaker 1: hell of falling out and it made me really sad
Speaker 1: because they thought they were never I thought it wasn't
Speaker 1: going to get back together, and I thought they weren't
Speaker 1: going to have a friendship anymore, which for me was
Speaker 1: breaking down my little cute world of what friendship is
Speaker 1: and what queerness could be with another girl. Because in Clueless,
Speaker 1: they were always best friends and job breaker. They didn't
Speaker 1: like each other from me to begin with, and then
Speaker 1: like and can't hardly wait that was an under like
Speaker 1: unrequited love, but it was between assists male and then
Speaker 1: assist girl and stuff. So this was the only movie
Speaker 1: where I saw two outcasts essentially be best friends and
Speaker 1: then fall out and then come back together in a
Speaker 1: stronger way. And that's all I thought I wanted in
Speaker 1: friendships and then eventually relationships when I grew up. So
Speaker 1: I found clearness in it, even though that wasn't a
Speaker 1: queer relationship at all, But at the heart of so
Speaker 1: many peer girl relationships is friendship. So that's how I
Speaker 1: connected fearness to it. And that's I mean, that's what's
Speaker 1: really cool about a movie like this, where again, even
Speaker 1: if I'm like dragging it from a screenwriting point of view, like,
Speaker 1: you can still like latch onto really meaningful things like that,
Speaker 1: And clearly so many people have because of this movie
Speaker 1: is like cult fan base and everything. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's just like a wonderful thing. And I'll try to
Speaker 1: stop making fun of its lack of three X structure. No, please,
Speaker 1: don't mean the film is chaotic and crazy and unorganized
Speaker 1: and all this, But there was just so many things
Speaker 1: that I found in it, like from a screenwriting standpoint
Speaker 1: of view, from a culture critic point of view, like
Speaker 1: even if I was watching this movie and trying to
Speaker 1: take my personal feelings out of it, would I rip
Speaker 1: it apart? No, But I would not be giving it
Speaker 1: four stars on letterbox like I do now. Most of
Speaker 1: those stars are because I loved it, you know. Also,
Speaker 1: another good thing that I saw in this movie that
Speaker 1: I connected with was a character we lost a lot
Speaker 1: of Gina with her um not Gina Um deborra. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she was clearly like cutting right because she talks
Speaker 1: about it with like a lady bick and stuff. And
Speaker 1: at that time in my life, I was also self harming,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was doing it. So I was
Speaker 1: seeing I saw that something I hadn't seen in a
Speaker 1: movie that had a happy ending, you know, essentially like
Speaker 1: but a happy ending that was so true to the character,
Speaker 1: like that character having that funeral and stuff. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like outlanded. She was one of the only things that
Speaker 1: kind of made sense that look a bit um. But
Speaker 1: when I saw that, I thought that was cool because
Speaker 1: I was just like, damn, she's like going through something.
Speaker 1: She's not telling everybody about it, she's private, she's cutting
Speaker 1: her risk is messed up. But then she's like, all right,
Speaker 1: I want these girls to be best friends again, so
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put myself in my ship on the table
Speaker 1: and hope they do too. And then they did and
Speaker 1: maybe friends again. And that there was another thing that
Speaker 1: made me be like, I don't care that this record
Speaker 1: store costs only nine thousand dollars, just be's incredible the
Speaker 1: whole I want to get into that, like Nest of
Speaker 1: relationships between the girls in this movie or the women.
Speaker 1: I don't know how old they are. I don't yeah,
Speaker 1: uh these young adults. But the Gina Corey stuff, it's again,
Speaker 1: it's like I feel like you almost have to like
Speaker 1: headcan in your way through it a little bit, but
Speaker 1: I don't know I was able to get there and
Speaker 1: having a friendship like that that, I mean, the slut
Speaker 1: Shaminus was very true to that time. And while I
Speaker 1: would have liked to see more like apologies of like
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have talked about you like that, Like that
Speaker 1: was me being because it's clear they're projecting onto each
Speaker 1: other in a way that it's like just talk it out,
Speaker 1: like just have a conversation. Yeah, because Corey is feeling
Speaker 1: insecure about like she thought she was ready to lose
Speaker 1: her virginity and then it's like she had this traumatic
Speaker 1: experience and she's like I'm not. But instead of talking
Speaker 1: that out, she is projecting onto her friend who she
Speaker 1: is jealous of, and it's like, well, you have sex
Speaker 1: all the time and you're a slut. And then Redazelwager,
Speaker 1: I mean she I appreciated how how Gina was like
Speaker 1: fuck you like you can't talk to me like that.
Speaker 1: I did too. That was a cool moment. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then Debora I struggled with similar stuff as well, and
Speaker 1: like I wish that it's and you're giving these nuggets
Speaker 1: of like, oh, there was a real story in here
Speaker 1: at one point. There's so much there because it's like
Speaker 1: you get the smallest bit of context of because I
Speaker 1: was like, we talked about this in the show all
Speaker 1: the time, of like why are women randomly turned against
Speaker 1: each other? Which I think in this movie it kind
Speaker 1: of comes off a little like they're randomly turned against
Speaker 1: each other because of how much is cut out, But
Speaker 1: it seems like there was enough context at one point
Speaker 1: in the final draft. Not really, but you have that
Speaker 1: one scene with Deborah and Joe where Deborah's doing Joe's
Speaker 1: taxes and like I was like, I don't order taxes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's literally doing the taxes in like the recording prole phone.
Speaker 1: Both thing like why can't she go to the office.
Speaker 1: Why can't you via that room where everyone actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true, you can focus on taxes. Yeah, But like
Speaker 1: Joe goes in and Joe is daddy and he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm worried about you. Are you okay? Should I call
Speaker 1: your mom? And she says like, well, I can't find
Speaker 1: my mom. Like she it's implied that she has a
Speaker 1: very very strained, possibly like abandonment related relationship with her mom,
Speaker 1: which would contextualize why she struggles to connect with other women.
Speaker 1: But you don't ever fully get there. And that would
Speaker 1: have worked for me too. It's like if if you
Speaker 1: had just been able to gether. And then there's an
Speaker 1: implication that, like Gina has an issue with her mom too.
Speaker 1: It's only referenced once, and it seems like the screenwriter
Speaker 1: like had a plan for how these relationships were going,
Speaker 1: like and how these women were going to resolve their
Speaker 1: issues and yeah, and it's just like you, I wish
Speaker 1: we had gotten to see it. I would love to
Speaker 1: see like a director's cut of this movie. Hell yeah,
Speaker 1: does it exist? Especially like I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: then I asked that because I was gonna go back
Speaker 1: and watch, like you know how you have the interviews
Speaker 1: and stuff, but so much kids cut out. But because
Speaker 1: I interviewed Carol through zoom, and I think I did
Speaker 1: ask that, and I think the answer to that is
Speaker 1: like yes, but what we see it probably not you
Speaker 1: feel me. But because I think if we had gotten
Speaker 1: more story too, it would have on her it would
Speaker 1: have made sense as to why she was so helpful
Speaker 1: to her in the bathroom to Live Taylor and Bathroom,
Speaker 1: because that was so personal and so like sweet, but
Speaker 1: the way, like if you didn't really pay attention to
Speaker 1: that character, you wouldn't have been like, oh, that makes
Speaker 1: sense for her to do that. But I would like
Speaker 1: to see how they even got that. And also her
Speaker 1: situation with Berko, like what was going on there, Like
Speaker 1: there was like half contact because she's like Debra and Burko,
Speaker 1: who I always forget Burkos even a character, because he
Speaker 1: like shows up happen wearing a wig. I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I think it's just that just really bad hair. I
Speaker 1: was like, is that what's going on on his head?
Speaker 1: Like I don't like it, but I feel like it's
Speaker 1: implied that they have some kind of like romantic history
Speaker 1: and he's like are you okay? And she's like what
Speaker 1: do you care? You didn't care last night and then
Speaker 1: he's like, well, I don't know. And then she's like,
Speaker 1: you know, this isn't about you, But I thought about
Speaker 1: what happened last night and last week and last year,
Speaker 1: and I just what happened and we don't know, we
Speaker 1: are thinking about it too, And then she just says like,
Speaker 1: but this is already told you. This isn't about you,
Speaker 1: and it's like okay, But also like what is the
Speaker 1: context of this relationship and like does that inform anything?
Speaker 1: And there's just like isn't enough information given there, which
Speaker 1: I feel like is kind of a dangerous thing to do,
Speaker 1: especially when you're trying to talk about suicidal ideation. The
Speaker 1: movie is handling of that felt pretty irresponsible and like
Speaker 1: know how to handle it. And also like how they
Speaker 1: introduced her to the other two girls, like when they
Speaker 1: came to trade cash drawers and stuff like that, and
Speaker 1: she was like shocked me, shock me, shocked me. But
Speaker 1: it's just like why is she so hateful to these
Speaker 1: other two girls? Is it because they are so girly
Speaker 1: girl and she just happens to be like a punk
Speaker 1: kind of girl who just hates those kinds of girly
Speaker 1: girls or is it more than that or is that
Speaker 1: just how they're playing that. I don't know, they put
Speaker 1: all the girls so against each other and also with
Speaker 1: like Debbie Maser's character too low Key a little bit
Speaker 1: like how the girls saw her because she was hanging
Speaker 1: out with Rex and she was it just they put
Speaker 1: everybody so against each other, but I wasn't paying attention
Speaker 1: that so much of that. I was always so focused
Speaker 1: on Prey and Gina, like throughout all of it. And
Speaker 1: they put them against each other too though, right, It's
Speaker 1: like they eventually they started united and then they were
Speaker 1: very abruptly torn apart. And like again, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there was a version of this where
Speaker 1: it made more sense, but I do I agree with
Speaker 1: what you're saying as well, Caitlin, of like, when you're
Speaker 1: dealing with a narrative about self harm, it's like you
Speaker 1: have to have all of the context there or it
Speaker 1: becomes potentially harmful. And the cut of this movie that
Speaker 1: was released, like it's not intentionally harmful, but it could
Speaker 1: come off as like a little bit romanticizing, like old
Speaker 1: girl who doesn't fit in does this because that was
Speaker 1: how like I mean, I think we've talked about this
Speaker 1: on the show before, but like I learned how to
Speaker 1: self harm from an episode of Degrassi, which I don't
Speaker 1: think was their intention at all, but it was like
Speaker 1: that was something that was like I wouldn't have known
Speaker 1: how to do that, but when my favorite character on
Speaker 1: a TV show started doing I was like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: something I can do. And then it became a problem immediately,
Speaker 1: like it's just you can you can would be real careful.
Speaker 1: You have to be careful. Especially Also another way they
Speaker 1: had they kind of really should have explained a little
Speaker 1: bit more, why was Live Tyler's character? So, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know they changed it obviously she went to this
Speaker 1: Oprirgina and I really but even like why was she
Speaker 1: such a fan of this this older man? And the
Speaker 1: way that she talked about her dad too, She was like,
Speaker 1: my dad pressures me and he just wants me to
Speaker 1: like go to Harvard and he wants me to do
Speaker 1: all my work. There's twenty four usable hours and every day.
Speaker 1: The way they made her talk about the older men
Speaker 1: in her life but didn't really explain why she wants
Speaker 1: to do that, it could it made it look like
Speaker 1: it was like romantic until he was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to make love to you. You can definitely just
Speaker 1: stuck my dick or whatever. But I really wanted because
Speaker 1: for a second I was like, oh, that's when I
Speaker 1: was watching, and I was younger. I was like, that's
Speaker 1: kind of hot that she just like thinks this guy
Speaker 1: is so hot and she wants to do all this
Speaker 1: stuff with him. Movie frames it that way. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: frames it that way. Oh my god. The way the
Speaker 1: camera moves on in Live Tyler is a teenager in
Speaker 1: this movie, and that's exactly movements on her is really
Speaker 1: exploitative and gross. Yeah, I'm like, let this leave this
Speaker 1: girl alone. Let's get her into the Lord of the
Speaker 1: Rings movies. Let's give her some sleeves, Let's let her
Speaker 1: live her life, Let's get it going, Let's get her
Speaker 1: out of here, Let's get her keep the crap top,
Speaker 1: but let's get her into the Lord of the Rings. Like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's and I would say the same thing with um.
Speaker 1: And it's so abrupt that I think that the deborah
Speaker 1: of the issue of self harm was a bigger red
Speaker 1: flag to me. But the way that Live Tyler's character
Speaker 1: is addiction storyline is dealt with very abruptly was also.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like that one was so clearly half
Speaker 1: big in the way it's presented in the movie that
Speaker 1: I was like, we barely had time to deal with it,
Speaker 1: but it's like she's not really offered any resolution in that,
Speaker 1: like it's you're told very abruptly she is addicted to
Speaker 1: it seems like adderall or like a speed, like some
Speaker 1: kind of stimulant speed. And then she is outed by
Speaker 1: her friend. Another traumatic thing she has like a small
Speaker 1: like fit or like a break. She panics and she
Speaker 1: like lashes out, and then she gets a boyfriend. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, this doesn't like heterosexuality saves her or something
Speaker 1: like like what what are we gonna do about the
Speaker 1: addiction stuff? Well, when she goes to Harvard, he's going
Speaker 1: to take care of her because he'll be really close by,
Speaker 1: so he'll definitely just take care of her and take
Speaker 1: care of everything, and she doesn't have to worry about anything,
Speaker 1: and she'll be okay because now she's in love with
Speaker 1: this boy. But her friend was the one who saved her,
Speaker 1: not saved her, but not even her friend was the
Speaker 1: one who saved her. Was another girl who helped her,
Speaker 1: who used to hate her, but then who used to
Speaker 1: hate her. Yeah, but then we got on the rooftop
Speaker 1: and everything's fine. But also what I kind of another
Speaker 1: thing that I kind of thing was good don't, yeah,
Speaker 1: quote me. It's a podcast, you have to um, but
Speaker 1: it'll be out here forever and ever. But another thing
Speaker 1: I kind of thought that the movie kind of did
Speaker 1: a bit right was and I mean light right, was
Speaker 1: um Renai Zeliger kind of being like, yeah, I love sex,
Speaker 1: I am this girl because she didn't apologize a lot
Speaker 1: for it. She did she should not have done that
Speaker 1: to like get back at her friend and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: but it didn't seem like she had an issue being
Speaker 1: a sexual, cool person. And I think she was of age.
Speaker 1: I think we don't know. I think I think it's
Speaker 1: implied that she's a little bit older than that. And
Speaker 1: I don't even know why I think that, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they just wanted to make it clear that
Speaker 1: she's at least eighteen when she was fucking like rexpanding.
Speaker 1: I think that's why they didn't have her talk a
Speaker 1: lot about school and stuff. But I kind of did
Speaker 1: that they were just having her like not be apologetic
Speaker 1: for it. She didn't want to be like her mom,
Speaker 1: So I'm assuming that was coming from like the job
Speaker 1: aspects of it, and maybe just like it was with
Speaker 1: sex to some some of it. But she didn't seem
Speaker 1: to have an issue with it, and I kind of
Speaker 1: thought that was kind of cool a little bit, not
Speaker 1: like Hella a lot, but it was kind of cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems that the it's far more the other characters
Speaker 1: who shame her for her have an issue with it, yeah,
Speaker 1: than than the movie itself, right, um having any issue
Speaker 1: with like her being a sexually liberated person who's interesting, right,
Speaker 1: So yeah, that I thought that was interesting too. It's
Speaker 1: so but then it's like again the movie you can
Speaker 1: just like see the studio it's happening in the last
Speaker 1: ten minutes of the movie, because she kind of doubles
Speaker 1: back on that at the end where she like enters
Speaker 1: the funeral and it's like, no, I'm not a cool,
Speaker 1: sexually liberated girl. This is actually I'm going to be
Speaker 1: just like my mother. And we don't know what that
Speaker 1: means because we know nothing about in this family where
Speaker 1: like that could mean anything. And so she kind of
Speaker 1: like I feel like she she was like holding her
Speaker 1: ground the whole movie of like how fucking dare you
Speaker 1: shame me? And then at the end she's like, but really,
Speaker 1: I'm just having sex because I'm afraid to be a
Speaker 1: singer and I'm like, you can be a singer who
Speaker 1: has sex like you? Is it like this sex weird
Speaker 1: binary of like lah lah lah Like, but I did
Speaker 1: that said I did love that Live Tyler line read
Speaker 1: where it was said, like there's just like there's a
Speaker 1: few of these lines that I just they're so teen
Speaker 1: movie in a way that really warms my heart, no
Speaker 1: matter if I know what's going on or not. Where
Speaker 1: like Live Tyler is like, you're not going to be
Speaker 1: like your mother if you don't want to be like
Speaker 1: your mother. And I'm like, oh, I wish that was true,
Speaker 1: but but what a seventeen what an eighteen year old
Speaker 1: thing to be sure of? To be like, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like my mom, so I'm
Speaker 1: not going to be like that's just not how generational
Speaker 1: trauma works. But so off, Yeah, it's I think it's
Speaker 1: like it's it's a very messy show for a film,
Speaker 1: but I just feel like there was Maybe that's another
Speaker 1: reason why I'm so attached to it, because I feel
Speaker 1: like there's a cut where there's reasoning behind some of it,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't I think it leaves all the actual
Speaker 1: connections on the cutting room floor and I think if
Speaker 1: we had a chance to power those up and if
Speaker 1: the studio and stuff wasn't so it's scared about, oh,
Speaker 1: here's just another teen movie with another girl like nowadays,
Speaker 1: I don't think they would have given a funk. They
Speaker 1: would have been like, there's another movie coming out that's
Speaker 1: exactly the same as this, but we're gonna put it
Speaker 1: out anyway. But they did, you know, they were just
Speaker 1: like too scared, and I bet it would have done well.
Speaker 1: It would have done well. Yeah, I really liked this.
Speaker 1: The there's like an anecdote about how the executive who
Speaker 1: like bought Empire Records because there was like which is
Speaker 1: always excited, especially for a female screenwriter. There was like
Speaker 1: a kind of like a small bidding. More over the
Speaker 1: Empire Records original script, which I would really love to read.
Speaker 1: I want to know how this movie was supposed to go,
Speaker 1: because it was less about capitalism and virginity in the
Speaker 1: first one. It was all about like found you know,
Speaker 1: chosen family, which I love um. But there was an
Speaker 1: executive executive who like bought it and like greenlit Empire
Speaker 1: Records was then the next day approached with the script
Speaker 1: for Clueless, and he was like I don't need Clueless.
Speaker 1: I already have a teen movie. And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: you fumbled so hard one and l that's so embarrassing
Speaker 1: that he's like, I don't need it. I got I
Speaker 1: have a hit on my hands, and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: already have lived Tyler and Renee Zelwiger. I don't know
Speaker 1: who they really are yet, but I'm I'm doing this instead.
Speaker 1: I mean, I see where he was going with that,
Speaker 1: but he was wrong. He was incorrect, especially because Clueless
Speaker 1: was such a like surprise box office hit in itself.
Speaker 1: Empire Records had a ten million dollar budget and only
Speaker 1: grossed like sorry, and only gross like three hundred dollars
Speaker 1: or something like that. But it was the studio killed it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't because people didn't want to see it. It's
Speaker 1: because the studio made it impossible for people to see
Speaker 1: because they sucked it up so hard that they then
Speaker 1: had to kill it themselves. And it's like and everyone
Speaker 1: lost as a result. Because Carrol was also telling me,
Speaker 1: like they started pulling theaters like they were just like okay,
Speaker 1: well maybe not here maybe. And then the run was
Speaker 1: also very short. It was only in theaters for like
Speaker 1: maybe a month. Weeks or something. Yeah, something like that,
Speaker 1: and in such a small amount of theaters. You they
Speaker 1: didn't even give it a chance. They just and then yeah,
Speaker 1: they just so happened to Like later it'd be like
Speaker 1: this like big hit or whatever with like the people
Speaker 1: who really wasn't meant for but at the time, yeah
Speaker 1: they killed it. Yeah fucked. I don't like it because
Speaker 1: there is a really cool coherent movie here. It's just
Speaker 1: not the one that ends up on the screen. It's
Speaker 1: not the one. But like there's so much potential for
Speaker 1: a movie to be about what it's about, which again
Speaker 1: is like misfits coming together as this chosen family having issues,
Speaker 1: resolving those issues, like finding ways to bond, all that stuff,
Speaker 1: all that stuff that's like very emotionally compelling and extremely
Speaker 1: relatable and human. It's just that it's so bogged down
Speaker 1: by so many weird random, like totally incongruous like scenes
Speaker 1: here and there, and just other kind of weirdness. And
Speaker 1: I feel like characters being rewritten to make weird choices,
Speaker 1: or things like suicidality and like drug addiction not being
Speaker 1: handled well. I mean, the overall cultural emotional and eligience
Speaker 1: of the mid nineties was like not equipped to deal
Speaker 1: with this kind of stuff, but I appreciate that they
Speaker 1: were trying. They tried, and there's a lot of potential
Speaker 1: in this premise. I mean, again from a teenagers watching
Speaker 1: this in the mid to late nineties and like finding
Speaker 1: so much to latch onto, like that is very cool
Speaker 1: and I can understand why. And I'm sure I would
Speaker 1: have if I had I seen this as a like
Speaker 1: tween and like or something like that, Like I would
Speaker 1: have had a different response. But it's just I understand that,
Speaker 1: like seeing it for the first time four days ago
Speaker 1: as a thirty five year old person living in I mean,
Speaker 1: it's easier to criticize from that advantage point. We got
Speaker 1: to take a quick break, but we will come right back.
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie? I
Speaker 1: just think like on top of that, I just think
Speaker 1: it's we have so much to talk about about the
Speaker 1: relationship between the girls and then with the guys. I'm
Speaker 1: just like sometimes I forgot which guy was which I'm like,
Speaker 1: these are all the same goofball. There's no conflict between
Speaker 1: except between like daddy and son, like that's the only
Speaker 1: real but like there's no Frick there's only universal support
Speaker 1: between these goofy boys, Like they're all just like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're fucking wild man like in a way that it's
Speaker 1: like it's goofy because they should maybe be in conflict
Speaker 1: a little more with each other. But also it just
Speaker 1: is like such a stark contrast to like the women
Speaker 1: in this movie are constantly in conflict, only in conflict really,
Speaker 1: and then the guys are just like, yoh whatever, man like,
Speaker 1: like it's so stark. It was just like bizarre, which
Speaker 1: is complicated because it's like the implication being women being
Speaker 1: in the same space together, well, they're obviously gonna hate
Speaker 1: each other conflict, but then it also means that those
Speaker 1: are the far more interesting and nuanced relationships in this movie,
Speaker 1: whereas like all the relationships with the men are just
Speaker 1: like who are you again? Who is this? They just
Speaker 1: want to smoke, they want to eat pizza, they bring
Speaker 1: each other snacks like, and they don't. And that's the
Speaker 1: weird thing because the major, the biggest conflict is like
Speaker 1: he's stole nine grand from him, but like that doesn't
Speaker 1: even create conflict in the story. Yeah, it's like, what's
Speaker 1: to fight about is the fact that I want to
Speaker 1: lose my opportinity to this guy, and for some reason,
Speaker 1: we're going to fight about it on our break as
Speaker 1: this really cute little cafe, Like it's weird. Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 1: It's weird, and they're fighting over a disgusting creep who
Speaker 1: wants to do sexual things with a high school student,
Speaker 1: So absolutely fuck that guy. And then also, real quick,
Speaker 1: the Rex Manning fan base thing. So obviously he's resentful
Speaker 1: that only women over the age of like thirty five,
Speaker 1: who he doesn't deem to be quote unquote fuckable, like
Speaker 1: they're not sexually viable to him, they are the main
Speaker 1: demographic of his fan base, and he hates that that's
Speaker 1: who likes his music. And then there's a scene where
Speaker 1: Jane is talking about how Rex Manning's music tested well
Speaker 1: with teen boys actually, and then Lucas says something like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: did you compare the teen boys who like Rex Manning's
Speaker 1: music to the incidents of homosexuality among teen boys? So
Speaker 1: fucking nineties homophobic, like, and that's like, but also I
Speaker 1: feel like the movie is saying the fact that older
Speaker 1: women and gay men that's who likes this guy, and
Speaker 1: that is part of why we're not supposed to like
Speaker 1: Rex Manning as a character, and it's like, um, look,
Speaker 1: older women and gay men have a lot of disposable
Speaker 1: income and and put some risk. Good taste, Yeah, had
Speaker 1: good tast. They're paying your rent, Like he just didn't
Speaker 1: care because I think the main point of is that
Speaker 1: they wanted us to take away was the fact that
Speaker 1: he didn't see them as buckable, which is again another
Speaker 1: trope of being like older women or whatever are no
Speaker 1: longer hot after what or something like that, and he's
Speaker 1: just like after that, even though like that is his
Speaker 1: whole fan base is literally those were that when you
Speaker 1: look at the line outside, those were the people that
Speaker 1: showed up, and we would have under I don't think
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted more understanding of like why liv
Speaker 1: Tyler loved him so much, Like she didn't fit it.
Speaker 1: And I think we would have knew that if we
Speaker 1: would have talked about more about the stuff with her dad,
Speaker 1: because she clearly had issues with him, but we didn't.
Speaker 1: They skipped over all that. Yeah, it was weird. It
Speaker 1: was weird. It's very bizarre. This movie is just so weird. Um,
Speaker 1: does anyone else have any other stuff? I just don't
Speaker 1: understand why Lucas didn't clearly explain to Joe or anyone
Speaker 1: else what his intentions were with taking the money, Like
Speaker 1: he could have just been like I saw that we
Speaker 1: were in trouble and I tried to save us, but oops,
Speaker 1: I lost all the money gambling. I'm so sorry. But
Speaker 1: he never says that. Every time all they provides exposition
Speaker 1: to himself, he doesn't provide it to other characters. And
Speaker 1: he came back with a bunch of quarters instead, which
Speaker 1: just get glued to the floor for the sake of art.
Speaker 1: For art, oh gosh. But every time he tries to
Speaker 1: explain why he did what he did, it's just so
Speaker 1: like metaphorical and cryptic, and it's like your intentions were pure,
Speaker 1: you can just tell what your intentions were. You were
Speaker 1: trying to help Daddy, Like he wanted to say that,
Speaker 1: you know, but he can't. He's an agent of chaos.
Speaker 1: Like Luke isn't such an annoying character, but I couldn't
Speaker 1: help but love him, and like his heart's in the
Speaker 1: right place, but he just like he just will not
Speaker 1: say the right thing at the right time. What a
Speaker 1: what a sweetie, what a what a weird kid? And
Speaker 1: you get a little glimpse into his past too, that
Speaker 1: I assume was originally a bigger part of the story
Speaker 1: where it sounds like, um, he was put in like
Speaker 1: foster care. He took him in, Yeah right, he took
Speaker 1: him in, Daddy, So Daddy can't punish the kid all
Speaker 1: he took in, Yeah right, because he's like, well that
Speaker 1: I got this kid like out of a bad situation,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to put him back into one. But
Speaker 1: it's just like movie wise, it would have been nice
Speaker 1: to have that scene and had, you know, get Lucas
Speaker 1: to communicate at some point in the movie, but he
Speaker 1: just kind of never does about what's and then at
Speaker 1: the end he's like, Daddy, I'm happy for you, and
Speaker 1: he's like thanks son. Yeah. But instead of any of that,
Speaker 1: like further context or development that we needed, instead we
Speaker 1: get a scene where Mark is dusting near a woman
Speaker 1: who's just you know, jamming out. She's closing her eyes,
Speaker 1: she was like listening to the music, and then he
Speaker 1: tries to assault her like he's just trying to kiss her,
Speaker 1: and the movie plays it off as isn't this funny
Speaker 1: and quirky and cute? Isn't that a funny thing? For
Speaker 1: Mark to do cut Mark from the movie, Like that's
Speaker 1: the character that is most goable. Why didn't they cut Mark?
Speaker 1: They cut who? Did they cut? Three people? They didn't
Speaker 1: cut Mark? Come on, This is unrelated, but just like
Speaker 1: in a post pandemic era, not that you could even
Speaker 1: get COVID from a pair of those headphones, but I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, that's so gross that we used to
Speaker 1: do that, that we used to just record stores and yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so it's so nasty. Why God wipe us out?
Speaker 1: Like it's just like nasty. Anyways, I think that that's
Speaker 1: my last comment is those headphones are so gross you
Speaker 1: couldn't pay me to put them on. My last comment
Speaker 1: is at the very beginning, when Lucas goes to Atlantic
Speaker 1: City and gambles and the first time he's playing craps, right,
Speaker 1: and he doubles his money or he wins money the
Speaker 1: first time he wins, and then the like sexy lady
Speaker 1: that's next to him his like, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: cuddled up against him, and then she's like, you are
Speaker 1: sex is a thing that she says to him, You
Speaker 1: are sex, Like I don't know about that, but it's
Speaker 1: so funny. I know exactly about that. Um, yeah, so
Speaker 1: that was amazing, and you are sex. We're all sex.
Speaker 1: We're all sex, especially Gina. Apparently that's what they wanted
Speaker 1: us especially, right, But how does she feel about it?
Speaker 1: We'll never know, never know. Does this fast back to test? Yeah,
Speaker 1: not a lot. Yeah, but like not as much as
Speaker 1: you would think I was going to say. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think my favorite exchange is when Deborah says, hey, miss
Speaker 1: Tina America, here's a button I made for you. Don't worry.
Speaker 1: I didn't spit on it, and then Corey reads what
Speaker 1: it says and it just says dishonesty. So she's like,
Speaker 1: dishonesty and that passes the test. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: sinister Yeah, there's a lot of sinister passes in this movie,
Speaker 1: but it does pass, which I accept. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: didn't know that's the one I choose to like that
Speaker 1: one that looks dishadesty, and it's like, well, we passed,
Speaker 1: So we did it, ladies, we did it. Feminist win,
Speaker 1: Oh gosh. And then as far as our nipple scale on,
Speaker 1: we rate the movie based on examining it through an
Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens. I guess my takeaway from this is
Speaker 1: that I appreciate that so many people have been able
Speaker 1: to latch onto this movie for relatable premise of like
Speaker 1: misfits being represented on screen, finding a community, finding a
Speaker 1: chosen family, because not many movies were about that, especially
Speaker 1: in this era. So I understand why it was so
Speaker 1: appealing to people who had so little representation. That said,
Speaker 1: the movie is extremely white, It is extremely hetero, It
Speaker 1: is extremely like middle class. Even though some of these
Speaker 1: like it suggested that a lot of the characters are
Speaker 1: struggling financially, we don't actually see any manifestations of that.
Speaker 1: It's just like because we just see them one day
Speaker 1: in a record store and we're just kind of assuming everyone's, like,
Speaker 1: everyone's fine. So it's just it only represents a very
Speaker 1: small demographic of people. It leaves a lot of people out.
Speaker 1: It does not handle a lot of uh serious topics
Speaker 1: such as sue, subtle ideation, and addiction, does not know
Speaker 1: how to approach handling those things, executes those things not well.
Speaker 1: But it's extremely valid for you know, the people who
Speaker 1: saw themselves represented in the movie and like, well, like
Speaker 1: you were talking about Shelley, like, even though there's there's
Speaker 1: no explicit queerness, even though you know, there's you're still
Speaker 1: able to see yourself in it and and and see
Speaker 1: parts of like what you long for in it, and
Speaker 1: like that's extremely valid. And with all of that in mind,
Speaker 1: I will give the movie two nipples. Maybe is that
Speaker 1: too many? Way? I thought you were going to go
Speaker 1: lower than I thought I was too. Jamie's like, I
Speaker 1: got you, Okay, I love it. I do like that
Speaker 1: A lot of the most interesting relationships in the movie
Speaker 1: are among women, and a lot of the most interest
Speaker 1: arcs are afforded to the female characters. There's still a
Speaker 1: lot of tropes present there. But what are you expecting
Speaker 1: from guess? Um, Yeah, I think this is maybe too
Speaker 1: high and on I like, did I enjoy watching this movie?
Speaker 1: From a zero to five scale, I would give this
Speaker 1: movie zero nipples, but sorry, But from a you know,
Speaker 1: is it doing some interesting things? Sure? I guess two nipples,
Speaker 1: and I'll give one two live Tyler's crop top, and
Speaker 1: I'll give one to the line of dialogue you are six.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do something weird here, and I'm gonna give
Speaker 1: nipple rating to the actual movie and a nipple writing
Speaker 1: to the movie that I think it was going to
Speaker 1: be prior to being released. Okay, the actual movie, I'm
Speaker 1: going to give one nipple too, because it's so messy
Speaker 1: and it's like, I there are the like seeds of
Speaker 1: so many interesting things. But because of the way the
Speaker 1: movie was edited and marketed and rewritten outside of like
Speaker 1: the writer's original vision, I feel like it does miss
Speaker 1: the mark a lot of the time, and I like
Speaker 1: totally echo I mean the nineties like extreme you know,
Speaker 1: white middle class heterosexuality, which is true of basically the
Speaker 1: whole genre at this time. But even on top of that,
Speaker 1: like it's so it's like I see, I would say
Speaker 1: I had a five out of five nipple experience watching
Speaker 1: this movie because we were we were just like I
Speaker 1: was paying such close attention, waiting for something that makes sense,
Speaker 1: and like it was so fun to be like, huh,
Speaker 1: what he's got a gun? Like what is happening? Um,
Speaker 1: So healing experience was incredible. I it's it's always like,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of disappointing in a way again that
Speaker 1: it's like not the writer or director's fault to see
Speaker 1: a teen movie try to approach serious issues that could
Speaker 1: have been impactful if they had been given some room
Speaker 1: to breathe and then see a kind of undercut. So
Speaker 1: I give one nipple to the movie that came out,
Speaker 1: and I'll give that to Live Tyler's Crop Top. I'm
Speaker 1: going to give three nipples to the movie that I
Speaker 1: like think was in there, maybe even three and a half,
Speaker 1: Like if you had gotten like Debrah's you know, full
Speaker 1: backstory and like gotten to fully realize a self harm
Speaker 1: narrative that had a positive ending for the character in
Speaker 1: a teen movie. I think that that could have been
Speaker 1: a really cool, impactful storyline if it was done thoughtfully.
Speaker 1: Sam goes for the Lift Tyler storyline. Sam goes for
Speaker 1: the sludge shaming storyline with Gina like I and um,
Speaker 1: like Carol was saying in her interview with you, Shelly,
Speaker 1: like it sounds like the Gina Corey friendship was so
Speaker 1: much more integral to the movie she wanted to make.
Speaker 1: And I would have loved to have seen that. So
Speaker 1: I'll give I'll have three and a half to the
Speaker 1: movie that I that I think it was at one point,
Speaker 1: And I'll give those nipples to you are sex, I'll
Speaker 1: give them to the dirty headphones. I'll give them to
Speaker 1: the newscaster who's like the news is on live and
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, we know, uh, and I'll give my
Speaker 1: last half to the eyebrows. Yeah. I think like with
Speaker 1: everything that you were saying about, you know, the sistness,
Speaker 1: the whiteness, everything a part of it, putting on that
Speaker 1: in and also taking all of that apart and being like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's this, there was more here than meets the eye,
Speaker 1: or that's on the cuting room floor somewhere or in
Speaker 1: someone's basement and rating the movie that we actually got,
Speaker 1: I would definitely just give it like two stars and
Speaker 1: or sorry to nipples letterbox, I'm sorry, how could you
Speaker 1: cut it out? Sorry? That wasn't me. Actually that was
Speaker 1: Shreky that said stars. I would give it to nipples
Speaker 1: um and the one Nipple, of course, goes to live
Speaker 1: Tie was crap top like that will forever get one
Speaker 1: and the other one I think goes for like what
Speaker 1: it was trying to do, like everything that it was
Speaker 1: trying to do, what it could have been, all the
Speaker 1: holes in the story and stuff like that, because I
Speaker 1: think they're saying something if you can not only find
Speaker 1: the holes in the story but then be like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's more to this. I think if your mind when
Speaker 1: you're watching it is like, instead of just being like, oh,
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense and then throwing it aside, if instead,
Speaker 1: when you're watching a movie and you're like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: there was something actually there and something just got sucked up,
Speaker 1: then you can be like, you can appreciate it a
Speaker 1: little bit more. So that's what my nipple rating scale is.
Speaker 1: But in a universe where none of this happened, and
Speaker 1: I'm in middle school and I'm watching this this movie
Speaker 1: that was not meant for this, like black Girl, Midwest
Speaker 1: middle class, like Weirdo come in, I give it like
Speaker 1: five because it made me fucking happy, Like it made
Speaker 1: me happy. It made me happy, and I made memories
Speaker 1: with it. I danced around my room to it. I
Speaker 1: would like acted out in certain scenes when I would
Speaker 1: watch at different times, like and then I got to
Speaker 1: like write about it for twenty five year anniversary and
Speaker 1: stuff and talk to the person who made it. So
Speaker 1: for that, I give it five in that world. But
Speaker 1: that's it amazing. I'm thank you for bringing up this
Speaker 1: movie because it really was like, of course fun worm hole.
Speaker 1: This is like one of my favorite chaos conversations on
Speaker 1: the show. And sometimes truly, Yeah, come back anytime I want.
Speaker 1: And um, tell us where people can follow you on
Speaker 1: social media, read your writing, anything else you want to plug. Well,
Speaker 1: if you just type in Shreky on Twitter, you'll find you.
Speaker 1: Just type that in, you'll find me. It's totally fine.
Speaker 1: Um No, I'm mostly on Twitter at Hi Shelley, and
Speaker 1: then I'm on Instagram at a Yo Shelley. On Twitter,
Speaker 1: I just talked last year about movies and TV that
Speaker 1: I want people to watch that I think they should
Speaker 1: be watching. Um. And on Instagram, I'm just supposed to
Speaker 1: keep pictures of myself. But yeah, and then I write
Speaker 1: culture writer at auto Straddle and I write you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of pieces there, but I also just edit
Speaker 1: a lot of really dope new and emerging writers over
Speaker 1: there too, actually black and brown fear writers. Um. And
Speaker 1: then other than that, I writed a few other places.
Speaker 1: I just anybody that wants to let me talk about
Speaker 1: in a movie and pay me for it pretty much
Speaker 1: to do it. So I'm there. You're real good at it,
Speaker 1: Please keep doing it. Thank you, thank you. But that's
Speaker 1: a truly come back anytime. Oh dope, I love you guys.
Speaker 1: This is such a dope podcast. I remember when I
Speaker 1: found it, and I really dig it every since, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just dope. We're h and uh, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: You can follow us on social media Twitter and Instagram
Speaker 1: at Bechtel Cast. We've got our Patreon ak Matreon that
Speaker 1: gets you to bonus episodes every single month. It's five
Speaker 1: dollars a month, and you can hear such episodes as
Speaker 1: the Stewart Little one, where Steve's on who again should
Speaker 1: be in this movie? He says you with this friends
Speaker 1: there man, some of my favorite matrons. You're like, you'd
Speaker 1: think there's nothing to talk about in Stuart Little, but
Speaker 1: there's a whole Gina Davis feminism conversation to be had.
Speaker 1: So that's that's where. If you want more chaos. Uh,
Speaker 1: you can also get our merch at t public dot
Speaker 1: com slash v Becktel Cast. If you're so inclined, follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram, follow us on Twitter or don't, all
Speaker 1: right or don't or do or do? Also give us
Speaker 1: five nipples on Apple podcasts or whatever. Oh my gosh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because because people were getting really mad about the Zootopia
Speaker 1: hive came for our comments section on Apple Podcasts. If
Speaker 1: you could help out there that would actually rock because
Speaker 1: I didn't realize how much people love um animal cops anyways.
Speaker 1: All right, well that concludes rex spanning day on the
Speaker 1: Bechtel cast Let's close up. It's midnight, so we gotta
Speaker 1: go and for the fundraise their bye bye bye