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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this

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Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. As the

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Speaker 1: deadline approaches for the Trump administration to release the Epstein files,

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Speaker 1: I can't stop thinking about all the wealthy and powerful

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Speaker 1: people who are entangled with Epstein, men like Larry Summers,

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Speaker 1: former president of Harvard and a current tenured professor there. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you're thinking, wait, who exactly is Larry Summers?

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Speaker 2: Don't worry. I've got you over on the podcast Stuff

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Speaker 2: Mom Ever Told You?

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Speaker 1: I break down who Larry Summers is, his outsize influence

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Speaker 1: on tech at academia, Why is connections to Ebstein are

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Speaker 1: so dang troubling, and what it reveals about the men

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Speaker 1: currently shaping our collective future.

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Speaker 3: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.

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Speaker 4: I'm welcome to Stuff Never Told You, production by Hurt Redo,

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Speaker 4: and we are once again so happy to be joined

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Speaker 4: by the marvelous the magnificent Bridget Todd.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Bridget, Thanks for having me back. Always such a pleasure.

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Speaker 4: It is, it really is. I look forward to talking

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Speaker 4: to you every time, even though the topics we tackle

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Speaker 4: famously not not so it's not so easy.

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Speaker 1: I always say this, I swear I am a happy

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Speaker 1: person who is drawn to happy things.

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Speaker 2: Something about let's just cut let's just be real.

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Speaker 1: It's there's a lot of misery out there, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: I end up covering it on podcasts.

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Speaker 2: But I am a happy person who is drawn to

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Speaker 2: happy things.

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Speaker 3: Don't get in misted exactly.

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Speaker 5: The reality is as much as like we would love

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Speaker 5: to be happy, go lucky, all of the things that

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Speaker 5: are happening we can't ignore. And it just happens that

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Speaker 5: these things are really gross and sad. And you know,

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Speaker 5: if I have to be given sad news or really

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Speaker 5: gross information, having someone as upbeat as you bringing it

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Speaker 5: to me, Bridget is kind of nice because I am

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Speaker 5: a sad person.

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Speaker 2: I am drawn to the darkness.

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Speaker 5: I am a bit gloomy, so having your perspective which

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Speaker 5: puts it in such a very factual but also like realistic,

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Speaker 5: but like here what could be solutions, Here could be

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Speaker 5: like the good possibilities, and here are the realities. It's

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Speaker 5: nice to be given those that kind of news from

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Speaker 5: someone like you. So I appreciate that you bring this

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Speaker 5: to us.

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Speaker 2: That makes me so happy to hear.

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Speaker 1: I mean that really is what I try to do there,

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Speaker 1: Like there's no need for panic, even though things are

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Speaker 1: tough and scary, but you still need to know what's

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Speaker 1: going on. And also, I think sometimes the conversations that

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Speaker 1: are happening these days are so grim that it's tempting

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Speaker 1: to just sort of check out from them. But we

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Speaker 1: really do need to understand how these things impact things

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Speaker 1: like gender and things like identity and who gets to

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Speaker 1: show up as.

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Speaker 2: Themselves and who doesn't? You know, I think it's important.

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Speaker 4: So thank you, yes, well, thank you. You know, here's

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Speaker 4: the million dollar question. How have you been rigid?

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Speaker 2: Oh god, this is like that broad city? I mean,

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Speaker 2: how am I? No? Things are good. I actually just

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Speaker 2: came back from a trip to Spain.

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Speaker 1: I was there doing a live show for this other

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Speaker 1: podcast that I work on called IRL with Mozilla Foundation,

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Speaker 1: which was awesome.

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Speaker 2: Was my first time in Spain.

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Speaker 1: I went to Barcelona, which was lovely and wonderful.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to come back.

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Speaker 1: We was the first time it's ever happened to me.

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Speaker 1: We were supposed to land in Barcelona. We tried to

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Speaker 1: land in Barcelona through very atypical lightning storms and it

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Speaker 1: was one of those situations where you know, we everybody

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Speaker 1: on the plane looked out the window and just saw

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Speaker 1: these big bolts of lightning and we all this sort

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Speaker 1: of made a quiet peace with our gods. Then the

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Speaker 1: plane went back up in the air and the pilot

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, we can't land in Barcelona, so we're

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Speaker 1: landing in Madrid. So I got to go to a bonus,

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Speaker 1: a bonus trip to Madrid. First time I've ever experienced

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Speaker 1: that a plane landing in a different place than where

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Speaker 1: you thought it was gonna land.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I think this is the only time that would

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Speaker 5: be warranted for y'all to clap.

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Speaker 1: Somebody is sitting next to me burst into tears like

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Speaker 1: it was like unfair.

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Speaker 2: It really was a moment of like are we gonna

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Speaker 2: make it right?

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Speaker 5: Everybody's quiet and eeriness because they're like, oh god, what

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Speaker 5: do we Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That was that was the creepy part, is that people

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Speaker 1: were like gasping, and a few people like like shrieked

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Speaker 1: or screamed, But at a certain point everybody just got

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Speaker 1: very quiet, and that's when you know you're like, oh.

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Speaker 2: This we are in a situation because real. But it

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Speaker 2: ended up being fine. And I got to see Madrid

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Speaker 2: for the first time.

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Speaker 3: So I'm all good, nice, we love a good twist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how have you two?

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Speaker 5: Then?

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Speaker 4: Well, Samtha's apparently.

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Speaker 3: You know my answer was not pretty.

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Speaker 5: And for the listeners who have listened consistently and have

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Speaker 5: just recently heard my happy hour, which was thirty minutes

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Speaker 5: long of me beaching and whining about adulthood, I think

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Speaker 5: they know. But you know what, we are together, so

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Speaker 5: I am doing much better right now than I'll want

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Speaker 5: twenty minutes ago.

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Speaker 3: I will say that.

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Speaker 2: More like an unhappy hour.

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Speaker 3: It really was.

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Speaker 5: We named that specific session and wine because we have

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Speaker 5: some wine and then we and then I say things.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's a power in unloading yourself like that. I'm okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm good. I've had a lot of good times with

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Speaker 4: friends lately, and I appreciate that. That's a nice. I've

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Speaker 4: gotten to see some people I haven't seen in a while,

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Speaker 4: and it's been nice. I'm pretty tired, but it's been good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, especially as we go into the dark months.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we still have the holidays.

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Speaker 1: I feel like after the holidays is when the real

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Speaker 1: slug begins. But holding onto those small comforts like getting

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Speaker 1: to see friends, you know, I think that really is

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Speaker 1: very important.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and especially given some of the news right now

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Speaker 4: and some of the dark, dark times and dark things

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Speaker 4: we're going to talk about in this episode.

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Speaker 1: That is right, just a content warning up top because

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Speaker 1: we were talking about convicted sex criminal Jeffrey Epstein, which.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's everywhere in the news.

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Speaker 1: You really kind of can't avoid the conversation around him.

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Speaker 1: Today is November twentieth, so by the time you hear this,

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Speaker 1: there is some chance that things might have changed. But

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Speaker 1: here is the latest as of today. So yesterday, the

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Speaker 1: Senate almost unanimously voted to release the Epstein files, with

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Speaker 1: only one dissenting vote, Republican Representative Clay Higgins of Louisiana.

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Speaker 2: So curious what's going on with him? I know I

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Speaker 2: looked at it. I was like, oh, you're.

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Speaker 1: Just a major trumper, even for Republicans. See, he seems

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Speaker 1: like a quite extreme fellow. So I guess I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be surprised, but it is well to be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: even among Republicans, just one dissenting vote.

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Speaker 2: So that bill then went to Trump's desk.

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Speaker 1: There were some back and forth of whether Trump was

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Speaker 1: going to sign it, but he did. So what happens

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Speaker 1: now is the Department of Justice has thirty days to

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Speaker 1: release these files.

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Speaker 5: I'm trying not to be a conspiracist, but I swear

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Speaker 5: the more I read, especially in this specific topic, the

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Speaker 5: thirty days seems too long.

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Speaker 3: I know there has to be some jurisdiction and all.

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Speaker 5: Of that, but it feels like there's too much happening,

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Speaker 5: and thirty days is giving them too much time and

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Speaker 5: including the fight.

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Speaker 3: Are they actually going to release it? That's my question.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that seems to be the big question. I should say.

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Speaker 1: I am no attorney, so this is somewhat above my

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Speaker 1: pay grade. But here's a little bit from CNN. Despite

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Speaker 1: Trump signing the bill, uncertainty remains. Attorney General Pam Bondi

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Speaker 1: said yesterday that the Department of Justice will quote follow

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Speaker 1: the law, but some lawmakers and analysts are worried that

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration may try to hinder the process by

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Speaker 1: slowing the release or redacting information.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know, above.

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Speaker 1: My pay grade, but your worries are grounded. You're not

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Speaker 1: the only person with that question. That seems to be

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Speaker 1: the question on everybody's mind. And in any event, this

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Speaker 1: is still all like a very big reversal of the

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Speaker 1: time very recently, when Trump was calling this entire thing

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Speaker 1: a Democrat hoax, when Pam Bondy was like, oh, there's

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Speaker 1: not going to be any additional information release. We looked

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Speaker 1: into it. We don't need to release any more information.

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Speaker 1: But then Trump was also recently vowing to investigate any

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Speaker 1: Democrats accused of breaking the law and the Epstein files,

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Speaker 1: which like, if the entire thing was just a big

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Speaker 1: Democratic hoax, why would there be Democrats in the files.

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Speaker 2: I'm not fully.

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Speaker 1: Assured that he thought this one through, but there you

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Speaker 1: have it. And I do think it's this weird thing

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Speaker 1: where people, in an attempt to downplay this entire thing,

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Speaker 1: are saying, well, what if this takes down a prominent

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Speaker 1: Democrat like Bill Clinton, to which I say, great, like,

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Speaker 1: get him out of here. If Bill Clinton committed a

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Speaker 1: crime and that is revealed in the Epstein files, take

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Speaker 1: them to prison, right Like.

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Speaker 2: I don't think.

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Speaker 1: Anybody is saying, no, we need to protect prominent Democrats

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Speaker 1: like Bill Clinton from accountability if they are named as

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Speaker 1: having committed sex crimes in the Epstein files. And also,

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Speaker 1: do people really think that most leftists are like clinging

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Speaker 1: to the legacy of Bill Clinton. I saw this great

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Speaker 1: post that was like, oh no, then I would have

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Speaker 1: to take down my Bill Clinton yard sign, burn my

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton hat and T shirt, take off my Bill

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Speaker 1: Clinton car wrap. Like what are these people talking about?

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Speaker 1: This is completely like a fiction.

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Speaker 5: It really does baffle me, I guess in the sense

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Speaker 5: of like the people thinking everyone just because they have

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Speaker 5: idolized a politician into a way of being like this

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Speaker 5: is God's son, literally putting pictures of like this, He's

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Speaker 5: the new Jesus that we all think of that way

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Speaker 5: for anyone that we voted for, instead of understanding a

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Speaker 5: lot of the choices that we make is the less

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Speaker 5: are evil and hoping that we can negotiate and hold

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Speaker 5: our people accountable to follow through with the promises they made.

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Speaker 5: Like it's not like this level of like these are

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Speaker 5: people who work for us. These are people who we

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Speaker 5: are supposed to be able to like count on to

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Speaker 5: protect our rights, not people I pray to because I

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Speaker 5: think you're going to do something to other people that

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Speaker 5: I don't like or I don't agree with that. That's

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Speaker 5: the other part to that is like their worship for

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Speaker 5: him is not because they think he's going to do

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Speaker 5: something great for them, is that he's going to be

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Speaker 5: mean to other people for them exactly.

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Speaker 1: Oh, this is a bit of a non sequitor. But

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Speaker 1: over the summer, I was at Ocean City, Maryland, which

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Speaker 1: is just like a kind of a trashy beach town,

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Speaker 1: but I fully love and I go there every summer

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Speaker 1: and they have all these boardwalk t shirt shops, and

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Speaker 1: every one of them has such prominent Trump memorabilia, Trump hats,

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Speaker 1: Trump shirts.

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Speaker 2: It's like Trump Trump, Trump, Trump Trump.

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Speaker 1: And I remember thinking I want to go into one

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Speaker 1: of these stories and be like, excuse me, where's your

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Speaker 1: Hakeem Jeffrey section, Like there's not.

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Speaker 2: You're You're so right that there's.

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Speaker 1: Not an analogous thing on the left where people are

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Speaker 1: buying like, you know, Hakeem Jeffrey's car wraps and stuff

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Speaker 1: like Ocean City boardwalks are not cluttered with memorabilia about AOC.

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Speaker 3: It's just an interesting level.

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Speaker 5: Also, the again with your non sequit, I love that everyone,

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Speaker 5: and I mean everyone takes advantage of that level of consumerism,

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Speaker 5: be like, yeah, we'll buy those key products and sell

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Speaker 5: it to everybody because they all buy it.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna make money. You're gonna be that ridiculous. I'm

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna sell it to.

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Speaker 1: You get your money. I'm not even mad at it,

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Speaker 1: to be honest with you. So the thing about whether

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Speaker 1: or not prominent people, including Democrats like Bill Clinton, would

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Speaker 1: be involved in the Epstein files is that Epstein, this

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Speaker 1: is total emmo. He intentionally had deep ties to all

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Speaker 1: kinds of prominent, wealthy, powerful people on all sides of

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Speaker 1: the aisle. This is the same thing we saw from

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Speaker 1: other convicted sex criminal Sean Diddycomb's you know, surround yourself

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Speaker 1: with wealthy, prominent, powerful people and that both becomes this

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Speaker 1: shield from accountability for your crimes and then also you

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Speaker 1: can get dirt on all these other powerful people and

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Speaker 1: sort of have an extra layer of power and protection.

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Speaker 1: So it is pretty likely that it's the entirety of

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Speaker 1: who did what is released. There would be powerful people

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Speaker 1: on all sides of the political spectrum, and also just

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Speaker 1: like wealthy, famous, non political people, because that's how Epstein rolled.

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Speaker 1: But I want to talk about one prominent Democrat who

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Speaker 1: we know had a connection with Epstein and what that

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Speaker 1: says about our current tech climate.

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Speaker 2: And that person is Larry Summers.

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Speaker 4: Yep, who I did not know by name. I knew

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Speaker 4: of him. I think I just didn't know him, but

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Speaker 4: now I do, And I'm like, what a way for

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Speaker 4: people to find out?

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Speaker 2: Oh, yes, this is what we wanted to make this

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Speaker 2: episode in part.

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Speaker 1: Just as an old these names that come up, you're like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: if you're under thirty, you might not know this name,

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Speaker 1: but if you're over thirty, you might remember a lot

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Speaker 1: about this person, just from being a person who was

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Speaker 1: alive when a lot of this stuff was going on.

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Speaker 1: So Larry Summers, he might not be a flashy name

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Speaker 1: that you recognize, but if you have any cash dollar

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Speaker 1: bills that were minted from nineteen ninety nine to two

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Speaker 1: thousand and one, you are carrying around Larry Summers's signature

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Speaker 1: in your wallet because his signature is on.

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Speaker 2: The money that was mented then.

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Speaker 1: Because he was the US Secretary of the Treasury from

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine to two thousand and one under former

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Speaker 1: President Bill Clinton, and he was also the Director of

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Speaker 1: the National Economic Council under former President Barack Obama. Basically

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Speaker 1: that's just a fancy title for the fact that he

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Speaker 1: was the top advisor on economic matters for the President,

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Speaker 1: so a pretty big deal. And Anny, you actually I

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Speaker 1: think we talked about the movie The Social Network one

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Speaker 1: time on here and how much I like it. He

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Speaker 1: is actually a fictionalized version of himself is portrayed in

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Speaker 1: the movie The Social Network.

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Speaker 2: He's sort of portrayed.

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Speaker 1: As like a good guy when the Winklevoss Twins set

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Speaker 1: up a meeting with him to complain that Zuckerberg stole

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Speaker 1: their idea for Facebook while they were students at Harvard,

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Speaker 1: of which Larry Summers used to be the president of

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Speaker 1: which I will come back to. But yeah, so you

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Speaker 1: might have seen like a fictionalized version of Larry Summers

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Speaker 1: in that movie.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna have to go back and watch it now.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna be strange. Now I know all this other

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Speaker 4: stuff that has come out. Yeah, yes, yes, even about Zuckerberg.

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Speaker 4: At the time, he was bad and now I'm like, oh.

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Speaker 2: Why don't that.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the Winklevoss Twins are the kind of

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Speaker 1: the ones that history sort of is like, well, there,

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Speaker 1: I'm not reading about them like in connections with convicted

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Speaker 1: sex criminals and stuff, or you know, disrupting democracy via

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Speaker 1: Facebook and meta. I don't know, maybe they turned out

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Speaker 1: to be. Maybe history will be kinder to the Winklevoss twins,

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Speaker 1: even though they're sort of portrayed as the villains in

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Speaker 1: that movie.

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Speaker 4: I am played by not.

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Speaker 3: Who played who played?

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Speaker 2: I just put this together.

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Speaker 3: It was just Timberlake, But that's wor justin Timberlake.

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Speaker 2: Is Sean Parker the napster guy.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, okay, Wow, I'm going to rewatch this and

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Speaker 4: I think I'm gonna have a wild time.

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Speaker 3: I've never seen it.

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Speaker 2: I just know, such a good movie.

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Speaker 1: You ever want to do a rewatch? Like we all

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Speaker 1: watch it and like recap it?

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Speaker 2: You love to?

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Speaker 3: Yes, we might, we might need to do this. Oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh, my first time.

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Speaker 1: Take cast some characters and that in that hole, both

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Speaker 1: in the fictionalized version in the Sorkin film and in

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Speaker 1: real life just a real menagerie there. So folks have

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Speaker 1: probably seen or heard about some of these emails that

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Speaker 1: were newly released as part of the Epstein files, because

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Speaker 1: last week the House Oversight Committee released a new round

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Speaker 1: of twenty thousand documents and emails from Epstein's estate. And

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Speaker 1: that is how we know that Larry Summers, who is

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Speaker 1: currently a very big deal professor at Harvard University is

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Speaker 1: mentioned as somebody who had a documented, pretty uncool relationship

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Speaker 1: with convicted pedophile and wealthy financier Jeffrey Epstein. And just

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Speaker 1: in the way of disclosures, before I talk too much

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Speaker 1: about Harvard University, I should disclose that I am currently

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Speaker 1: an affiliate of Harvard University's Berkman Clin Center. So I

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Speaker 1: did want to back up and just give a bit

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Speaker 1: of a quick and dirty rundown of who Epstein is

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Speaker 1: for folks who are not myerd in this gu I

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Speaker 1: have been for the last couple of months.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 1: Epstein was a wealthy financier who threw his money all

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Speaker 1: over the place. He was convicted of sex crimes against

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Speaker 1: a minor in two thousand and eight, and famously got

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Speaker 1: off on a very lenient sentence for that crime, only

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Speaker 1: thirteen months with work release. Importantly, both before this and

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Speaker 1: notably after this conviction, a lot of influential people continued

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Speaker 1: to associate with Epstein, who by then was a convicted

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Speaker 1: sex criminal.

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Speaker 2: Ebstein died in.

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Speaker 1: Jail in twenty nineteen while awaiting trial on federal sex

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Speaker 1: trafficking charges, and the New York City Medical Examiner ruled

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Speaker 1: his death of suicide, but conspiracy theories claiming that Epstein

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Speaker 1: didn't kill himself began to spread almost immediately in the aftermath.

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Speaker 1: The idea here is that Epstein was taken out to

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Speaker 1: avoid details that might incriminate powerful people that he associated with,

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Speaker 1: And it's one of those theories that kind of works

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Speaker 1: regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, because

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Speaker 1: Epstein had ties with all the political parties, and as

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Speaker 1: I said that, ingratiating himself with like wealthy, powerful spaces

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Speaker 1: and people was just sort of Epstein's m especially in

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Speaker 1: the tech world. He gave donations to a lot of

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Speaker 1: influential tech spaces. We did an episode of my podcast

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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet about the contributions

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Speaker 1: he made to MIT's Media Lab and the Kenyan, first

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Speaker 1: year MIT grad student who called for joy Echo ahead

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Speaker 1: of the Media Lab to step down once this was revealed.

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Speaker 1: He also had some kind of a relationship with Microsoft

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Speaker 1: co founder Bill Gates. Bill Gates's ex wife, Melinda, has

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Speaker 1: given several interviews to the effect that her marriage to

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Speaker 1: Bill Gates ended in part because of Bill Gates's relationship

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Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: She does this interview with.

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Speaker 1: Gail King, where Gail is like, well, what exactly happened?

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Speaker 2: Like, can you give us more details.

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Speaker 1: About what you know made you want to leave your

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Speaker 1: husband because of Epstein?

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Speaker 2: And she was like, you're gonna have to ask Bill Gates.

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Speaker 2: That not me.

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Speaker 1: So it's like a very it seems to me she's

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Speaker 1: like you eating something and all I guess I'll just

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Speaker 1: leave it at that. So it's one of those things

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Speaker 1: where you have a lot of powerful, rich and famous

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Speaker 1: people having this connection with Epstein and that is how

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Speaker 1: he designed it. And so when the House Oversite Committee

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Speaker 1: released these emails and these documents, we got a lot

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Speaker 1: more insight into what.

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Speaker 2: That looked like.

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Speaker 1: And I just have to add as a side note,

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Speaker 1: have you all read any of these emails or exchanges?

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Speaker 3: I have not. It makes me sad.

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Speaker 5: I've seen things being posted, so I know of blips.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So this is just a side note. I guess

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Speaker 1: the way they are written is Sking insane. Like reading

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Speaker 1: these emails that some of the most prominent, wealthy, important

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Speaker 1: people in government, tech and media reading in a way

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Speaker 1: that they emailed each other has absolutely cured me of

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Speaker 1: my anxiety around needing to word my emails. Just so

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Speaker 1: I'm writing an email, I'm trying to gauge the exact

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Speaker 1: right amount of exclamation marks to use to sound enthusiastic

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Speaker 1: and easy to work with, but not too enthusiastic. Every

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Speaker 1: email is like, no worry, is it not? I'm happy

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Speaker 1: to like I go through, so I go through so

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Speaker 1: much Secon'm guessing this. Meanwhile, Jeffery Emstein was just like, Yo,

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Speaker 1: what's up.

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Speaker 2: Want to do some sex crimes later? Lol?

404
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Speaker 1: Like every word miss spell, every word mistyped, every word misspelled.

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Speaker 4: Like punctuation absent or completely inexplicable.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it's kind of like if a boomer was trying

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Speaker 5: to be cool and they're like, l ols like that

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Speaker 5: type of thing no one actually uses, but they think

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Speaker 5: that's what the kids are doing.

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Speaker 1: Truly, it is like up number four sex crime question

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Speaker 1: mark lol, small diz punctuated, insane. He put a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff in writing that. I mean, I just don't

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Speaker 1: think any of this I should have been writing. And

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Speaker 1: they're so egregiously mistyped that part of me wonders if

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Speaker 1: this was intentional, if they were trying to like evade

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Speaker 1: some sort of something.

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Speaker 2: I have no.

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Speaker 1: Idea, but I want to make it clear that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't writing these in like nineteen ninety nine or something

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Speaker 1: during a time and we didn't really have a concept

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Speaker 1: of what email was or what did or didn't belong

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Speaker 1: in emails and how to write them.

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Speaker 2: He was writing a lot of these emails in.

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Speaker 1: Twenty eighteen, right at a time when email was commonplace.

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Speaker 2: The whole thing is just very weird to me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it does get to the like plausible deniability. I

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Speaker 5: would never write it that way. That's not how I

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Speaker 5: speak type of thing.

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Speaker 4: Or just even because they tried to index. You know,

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Speaker 4: you can search how many times a name comes up

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Speaker 4: or whatever in these and so if there's like a

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Speaker 4: misspelling or if there's something that would mess up trying

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Speaker 4: to index something. So I also was kind of like,

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Speaker 4: are you trying to get around something I don't know about.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that was my big and I have no idea,

436
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Speaker 1: but that was my thought because they're so everything is

437
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Speaker 1: so egregiously misspelled that it almost is like this has

438
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Speaker 1: to be some rich guy way of not having your

439
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Speaker 1: crimes getting found out later or something.

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Speaker 2: Although wise you just really couldn't type like that. How

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Speaker 2: do you get those bottom quotation marks? I have to

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Speaker 2: go what I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we know the actual like intelligence is not

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Speaker 5: as intelligent as we think they are when it comes

445
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 5: to white men.

446
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: So hellmo hell I mean they were putting this stuff

447
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: in writing anyway, so like, yeah, don't put your crimes

448
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 1: in writing.

449
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: However, I've said this so many times.

450
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 1: There's nothing when when when it's like, oh, we've released

451
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: the emails, I'm like, well, I'm gonna read every single one.

452
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: I I there's just something about people.

453
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: Writing emails that they don't realize they're going to be

454
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: read later in a deposition or made public in a

455
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: deposition or something.

456
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I should give a big caveat that.

457
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: Just because somebody knew Epstein and associate with him and

458
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: emailed with him does not necessarily mean that they did

459
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: something criminal. When a lot of these people have been asked,

460
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: people are mostly like, oh, I didn't know him like that.

461
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it is not like what

462
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 2: Epstein was doing was a secret.

463
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: Right in twenty eleven, mind you, this is two years

464
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: after Epstein was convicted of a sex crime against a minor.

465
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: Bill Gates told The New York Times about Epstein quote,

466
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: his lifestyle is very different and kind of intriguing, although

467
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: it would never work for me. So you're not going

468
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: to ever convince me that Bill Gates had no idea

469
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: he was associating with somebody who committed sex crimes against

470
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: miners when he was saying, like, you're just not going

471
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: to be able to convince me that he didn't know

472
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: what was going on, which is what he says now.

473
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: When Epstein was donating money too, the MIT Media Lab,

474
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: for instance, the staff at MIT had a whole system

475
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: for flagging Epstein's donations using the code name Voldemort or

476
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: he who shall not be name, aimed specifically to obscure

477
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: where that money came from because he had already been

478
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: convicted of sex crimes. So, yeah, these people knew this

479
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: was not a big secret. People now who were like, oh,

480
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: I had no idea, I don't know. I have a

481
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: hard time believing some of the people who are going

482
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: out of their way to say this now.

483
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I also think some of the things we're hearing,

484
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 4: especially like Megan Kelly being like there's a difference between

485
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 4: a five year old and fifteen year old. I feel

486
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 4: like that we're also having to confront that older men

487
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 4: do this and have been doing it forever, and we've

488
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 4: kind of societally been like, Oh, that's his lifestyle or yeah,

489
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 4: that's yeah, that's what he's into. Gross.

490
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the way Bill Gates is like, Oh, his

491
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: lifestyle is certainly intriguing to me, homie. Those are sex crimes.

492
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of lifestyle choice. We're not talking about

493
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: like being vegan. We're talking about a entire network designed

494
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: to traffic children for sex crime. Like, I think you're

495
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: exactly right, and I do think we should talk about

496
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: that because I.

497
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: Think when we make Epstein into.

498
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: A solo monster, which she definitely is a monster, but

499
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: it makes it easy to not look at some of

500
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: the ways these attitudes really do show up all over

501
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: the place.

502
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 2: Right, you don't have to.

503
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: Be flying in girls on your private plane nicknamed the

504
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: Alita Express to have really messed up attitudes about young girls.

505
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: I was just reading an article about how a AI.

506
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: Company was used to deep fake.

507
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: Images of girls to make deep sake nudes and they

508
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: had used specifically yearbook pictures, and it was like one

509
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: of the headlines I'd read was something to the effect

510
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: of women's yearbook pictures used for deep fakes. I got

511
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: to thinking, I'm a grown woman. I have not taken

512
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: a yearbook photo since I have become an adult. Because

513
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: it is not grown adult women who take your book photos.

514
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: It's children because they are in school. So why did

515
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: this headline say that it was women's yearbook photos, as

516
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: if these women were adults. Anybody who's getting a yearbook

517
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: photo unless you've got some other situation going on, maybe

518
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: you're a teacher. You're usually a child. You're in school,

519
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: you're in K through twelve education.

520
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 3: Mm hm oh.

521
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was looking because I saw that headline too,

522
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 5: and some of the advertisements for those sites.

523
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 3: Did you see that it said the AI girls will

524
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: never say no to Yeah?

525
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

526
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 5: It was so disturbing that obviously there were so many

527
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 5: implications into these things in like date rape culture, but

528
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 5: also coming back to the fact that, yes, these girls

529
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 5: look like they're in school.

530
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and something about the way that the Megan Kelly thing.

531
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: You know, Megan Kelly has a daughter who is like

532
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen, and I think especially for a parent or

533
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: somebody who spends a lot of time around a fifteen

534
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: sixteen year old to make it sound like because because

535
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people will say like, oh, well she

536
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: looked older or seemed older. When you're around a fifteen

537
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: year old, you really have a front row seat to

538
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: the ways in which they are obviously very much kids.

539
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: And I just think it's just it's hard for me

540
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: to wrap my head around somebody who could be spending

541
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: time with a fifteen year old and not be like,

542
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: this is a child. You know, there's it's I just

543
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: I really can't. If you spend any time around, if

544
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: you've got teenagers yourself, you really see the ways every

545
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 1: day in which.

546
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: They are just kids.

547
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: And it really is shocking to me that someone who

548
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: is around a fifteen year old every day, but really

549
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: anybody would make it seem like somehow because they're not

550
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: a toddler.

551
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: It's it's different, you know, And I know that there

552
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: are there are.

553
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: When it comes to like, you know, professionals who study

554
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: this kind of thing, they have different designations, but really,

555
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, a sex crime against a minor is a

556
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: sex crime against a minor?

557
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and it just feels like such a if

558
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 4: you have to explain that you're already in the something

559
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 4: has gone wrong, something has gone wrong.

560
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, if you.

561
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: Find yourself saying something like that something's up, like you

562
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: need to you need.

563
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: To like run it back exactly.

564
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 4: Well, I guess we should get into Larry Summers is

565
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 4: quite pathetic, quite pathetic emails, my yead.

566
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: Pathetic is the word for it.

567
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: So in this new drop of emails we get some

568
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: more insight until the relationship that Larry Summers had with

569
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, and it's a fucking weird one. So Summers

570
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: described Epstein as his quote wingman. So from these emails

571
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: we learn that Larry Summers was really hung up on

572
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: trying to pursue a romantic relationship with a student that

573
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: he referred to as his mentee, and he consistently sought

574
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: advice from Epstein.

575
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: About how to best do this.

576
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: From November twenty eighteen to July twenty nineteen, text messages

577
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: and emails show that Larry Summers consistently asked Epstein for

578
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: advice about this relationship. Epstein responded eagerly, offering encouragement and tips,

579
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: even calling himself Somemmrs wingman in a message from November

580
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Maybe don't get a convicted sex criminal against kids.

581
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: Maybe don't seek this person out for advice on how

582
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: to get your mentee who's also a student, to have you,

583
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: especially when you are married, which, by the way, Larry

584
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: Summers was.

585
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: When all of this was going down.

586
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 4: Yes, and also just a note, he was contacting Epstein

587
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 4: until he went to jail.

588
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: Yes, guy finds so wild.

589
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: So to make it clear, this contact was happening well

590
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: after Epstein's initial conviction on sex crimes against kids back

591
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: in two.

592
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: Thousand and eight. And you are so right, Annie.

593
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: The back and forth exchanges that Larry Summers had with

594
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, they only ended the day before Epstein was

595
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: arrested again on new federal sex trafficking charges.

596
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: So that means they were like bud bud buds.

597
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: Like if the back and forth about how to get

598
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: your mentee to sleep with you only stopped because this

599
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: man got arrested on federal sex trafficking charges, y'all were

600
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: in deep. They were like thickest thieves as far as

601
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: I'm concerned.

602
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 5: Literally, like because someone was looking at the mail and

603
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 5: you would have to do it by.

604
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: Hand, like it that is insane, That is insane.

605
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: I do I want to get into the meat of

606
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: some of these messages. Because I think they're very revealing

607
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: about what kind of person was actually, you know, at

608
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: the Helm at Harvard. So at one point, Summers told

609
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: Epstein that he was worried that maybe his Minty didn't

610
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: want to pursue a romantic or sexual relationship with him,

611
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: because maybe she just wanted to keep things professional. He said,

612
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: quote think for now, I'm going nowhere with her except

613
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: economics mentor boring, Summers wrote on November twenty eighteen, I

614
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: think I'm right now in the seem very warmly in

615
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: the rear view mirror category. She must be very confused

616
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: or maybe wants to cut me off, but wants professional

617
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: connection a lot, so she holds to it.

618
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: Summers wrote in March twenty.

619
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: Nineteen, basically saying that like, oh, like I like her,

620
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: and maybe she likes me, but she just wants to

621
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: keep me around for professional reasons. Mind you this, he

622
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: self described. He is her mentor. So it's like, oh,

623
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: she only wants me to like give her economics guidance

624
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: and education lowering.

625
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: So who was this student in question?

626
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: According to the Harvard Crimson and at least some of

627
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: his exchanges with Epstein on the relationship, Summers appears to

628
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: refer to economist Ku Jin, a tenured professor at the

629
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: London School of Economics at the time, who is mentioned

630
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: in a series of late twenty eighteen messages between the

631
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: two men. So I actually knew who she was before

632
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: this all came to life, because she's a pretty prominent person.

633
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: She goes on all the big podcasts, like, she has

634
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: a pretty prominent career.

635
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: And is a I would say, a public thing here

636
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: at this point.

637
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: So I mentioned this because look how grossly Larry Summers

638
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: talks about this person who at the time was his mentor.

639
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: Larry Summers was forwarding academic work that she would send

640
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: to him to Epstein, so like, here's my paper, and

641
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: then he's like, I gotta get I gotta get Epstein's

642
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: eyes on this. So Summers forwarded Epstein an email from

643
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: Jin which she was asking for feedback on a paper

644
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: and that she had written, and then Summers used to

645
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: Epstein that it was probably appropriate to hold off on responding.

646
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: So he's really doing that thing of like, ooh, like

647
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: when should I text back? Like is it like should

648
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: I give her her paper feedback today?

649
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: Or does that look too eager?

650
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: Epstein replied quote she's already beginning spelled wrong to sound needy,

651
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: smiley faced emoji nice now Jin is Chinese, and at

652
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: one point Summers wrote quote.

653
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: Capital you lowercase are better at.

654
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: Understanding Chinese women than at probability theory.

655
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: Larry wrote to Epstein. They used to also refer to

656
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: her as this nickname peril, right.

657
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: So like when I saw this, I was like, wow,

658
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: Like where did this nickname come from? Apparently this nickname

659
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: might be drawn from the racist quote yellow peril trope

660
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: of the late nineteenth and twentieth century, which was used

661
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: to stoke fear that Asian immigrants, especially Chinese and Japanese people,

662
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: were a danger or a threat to westerners. Just real cool,

663
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: classy conversations to be putting in writing with that convicted

664
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: sex criminal.

665
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 5: Literally during that time is when they also made this

666
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 5: fear that all Asian women were prostitutes. So that that

667
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 5: was that implication of this level of Asian fetishism that

668
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 5: began in that propaganda, Yeah, and.

669
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: Was continued in these messages from twenty eight That's what I'm.

670
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 4: Saying, Like, I just like, yeah, it's just like yeah, yep, yep, yep.

671
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: So Epstein and Larry Summers were also financially entangled, which

672
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 1: is an Epstein classic. Summers traveled on Epstein's private plane,

673
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: which was nicknamed the Lolita Express, on at least four occasions,

674
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: including at least three times while Summers was the president

675
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: of Harvard. Summers also met more than a dozen times

676
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: with Epstein and solicited donations from him for his wife,

677
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 1: who was a Harvard English professor, Alisa Knew. The Messa

678
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: just released showed that Somers was trying to organize visits

679
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: to Harvard on Epstein's behalf to to discuss his wife's

680
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: poetry work.

681
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: So just really not smart. I will say.

682
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: That Harvard did put out a report about their connection

683
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: to Epstein, and it seems like before Epstein was convicted

684
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, he did donate I think

685
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: nine million dollars to Harvard, and after he was convicted

686
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 1: did visit campus quite a bit. So it does seem

687
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: like the calls were sort of coming from inside the

688
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: Ivy League university, if you know what I mean. But

689
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: having the president of Harvard associating with somebody who had

690
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: already been convicted of sex crimes against miners, it's not

691
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: a good look to say the least, it's definitely not

692
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: good judgment.

693
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 2: Now, if only there had been.

694
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: Some clue to tip us off that perhaps Larry Summers

695
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: was a creep who could not be trusted in positions

696
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 1: of authority around young women and co eds. Oh wait

697
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: a minute, because that's exactly what we fink got because

698
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: I mentioned that Larry Summers was formerly the president of

699
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: Harvard University, not just a professor.

700
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: There, lucky is.

701
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: Now, why was he forced to resign? You ask attitudes

702
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: toward women. Where there is smoke, there is fire, My friends,

703
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: this should not be surprising to anybody.

704
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, No, And.

705
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: I guess it's like why I wanted to talk about

706
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: this is like we had a whole converse. It was

707
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: a national conversation around two thousand and five, two thousand

708
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: and six about what kind of person Larry Summers was.

709
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: And it's just wild to be like, ohver, that guy's

710
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: still in the mix. We're still talking about that guy. Yes,

711
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: because these people they're never pushed out when like it's

712
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: clear something is going on. The thing that really sunk

713
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: Somers's ten year as president of Harvard remarks that he

714
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: made in two thousand and five at an economics conference.

715
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: So Summers was talking about why there are so few

716
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 1: women in STEM fields, and he wondered if the reason

717
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 1: why there aren't more women in these fields just because

718
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: women are just naturally and innately stupid and also bad

719
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: at things. Aid out three kind of potential hypotheses for

720
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: what's going on. One is that women want more work

721
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 1: life balance than men, so they can't succeed in these

722
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: fields as much as men. He was likeain, it's probably

723
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: not it. Two gender discrimination, which he basically was like,

724
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: h I don't think so. And then the one that

725
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: he really kind of double clicked on was the idea

726
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: that women are just biologically worse at the traits that

727
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: one needs to succeed in STEM, which is basically where

728
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: he landed. He argued that the gender gap in STEM

729
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: must be biological, specifically differences in intrinsic aptitude, and that

730
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: men and women might have different variabilities in certain traits

731
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: like math or science ability, meaning that more men would

732
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: just naturally occupy more top positions in those fields. He

733
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: tried to back this up with like behavioral genetics research,

734
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: claiming that some attributes once thought to come from socialization

735
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: may actually have you know, biological components.

736
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: I will say he did say.

737
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: When this kind of became a controversy, he was like, oh,

738
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 1: I thought this was meant to be kind of an

739
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: off the record safe space for bad opinions about gender.

740
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: So like, my bad.

741
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: I didn't know we were gonna be like telling everybody

742
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: about what.

743
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: It was being said here.

744
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 4: Oh that's another in the long line. We've been talking

745
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 4: a lot lately about and even with you Bridget we've

746
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 4: discussed this before, but about men using those terms like

747
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 4: safe space completely incorrectly. And also it's kind of like,

748
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 4: no wonder women might not want to work with you

749
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 4: who has the power because you treat them as a

750
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 4: dating opportunity, your chance to have sex. Guess what, they

751
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 4: don't want to be involved in that, and you're the

752
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 4: one making these decisions.

753
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: Exactly that, Like, these things are so clearly linked.

754
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: The fact that he got up on a stage and

755
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: said this, and the fact that he was creepily pursuing

756
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: his men tee and sending her fucking like academic papers

757
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: to a convicted pedophile, these things are all linked, right,

758
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: And I will just say this, he also picked a

759
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: terrible time to say these things, because he said these

760
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 1: things against the backdrop of Harvard facing, according to the Crimson,

761
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: widespread faculty criticism following reports that women received only four

762
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: of the thirty two ten year offers from the Faculty

763
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: of Arts and Sciences that year. Right, so like there

764
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: was already like a brew haha about women and whether

765
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: or not they were included and represented at Harvard.

766
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: And he gets this. Jack gets on stage and says

767
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: these things.

768
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 5: Right.

769
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: I wish that we could go back to that time

770
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: and have a different conversation about it, because I think

771
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: we'd be in a different place. Right now, I will

772
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: say that Summers apologize and clarify that he does not

773
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: believe that women are intellectually inferior. What a nice guy,

774
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: definitely a great president at Harvard. But this was also

775
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: like not an isolated thing with him. He used to

776
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: joke about women's intelligence quite often, apparently, and talked about

777
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: what he described as excessive penalties for men who hit

778
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: on women in the workplace. Surprise, surprise, he was actively

779
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: hitting on his mentee at an academic institution. I was like,

780
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: are wething too hard on men who just try to

781
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: hit on women at work?

782
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: He would think that.

783
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 5: He wouldn't me He sounds like the guy who was like,

784
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 5: we can't talk to women at all anymore.

785
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 3: I can't be like touching them though it's against the rules.

786
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: Now, Like what women, yes, how do you behave that way? Yeah?

787
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 1: Women these days can't even try to cheat on your

788
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 1: wife with them.

789
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 2: Or what a good time with them?

790
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: So I should add that when this was going on,

791
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the Harvard community did stick

792
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: up for him, but ultimately Harvard's board voted no confidence.

793
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: This controversy really lingered until eventually Larry Summers resigned from

794
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: his role as president of Harvard the next year.

795
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 2: But don't worry.

796
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: Two years later, President Obama named Somers as the director

797
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: of the National Economic Council.

798
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: Because he always on his feet, This one.

799
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 3: The like comeback of white men.

800
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 5: It really is like amazing to say, like we talked

801
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 5: about how women like the bootstrapping theory.

802
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 3: This this is why that's not.

803
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 5: A thing, Like bootstrap thing is not a thing because

804
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 5: we see this like men who should be taken down

805
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 5: always bounds back, like they always bound connections no matter

806
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 5: what happens.

807
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: And like some of the stuff that he was saying

808
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: to students and around campus, he we know from the

809
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: release of these emails that he was also saying the

810
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: same stuff to Epstein, which really isn't surprising.

811
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 2: He retread that same terrain that he got it.

812
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: Years after getting in trouble for this stuff at Harvard,

813
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: he continued to say this kind of stuff to Epstein.

814
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen, he wrote this old Jim saying.

815
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: That he had a quote observed that half the IQ

816
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: in the world was possessed by women, without mentioning that

817
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: they are more than.

818
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: Fifty one percent of the population.

819
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: Oh good, one, it's not even a good joke, Like,

820
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: if you're gonna there, you shouldn't be making jokes like

821
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:02,399
Speaker 1: this about women.

822
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: But it's not even like, in my opinion, not even

823
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 2: a very good joke.

824
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 4: No, no, and it's I I mean, all of this

825
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 4: is disgusting and horrific, but it is going back twice

826
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 4: said earlier, very pathetic that you would have to reach

827
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 4: out to a convicted sex predator to get late because

828
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 4: he's very like he has one email that says something like,

829
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 4: I just need to get horizontal help. Yeah, yes, what

830
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 4: is wrong with you?

831
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 2: Bro?

832
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 1: You are the president of Harvard show something like act

833
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: like it.

834
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: It's something.

835
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 5: You know.

836
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: A therapist once told me that men in power their

837
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: need to have sex with people that they should not

838
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: be having sex with.

839
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 2: It makes them so small.

840
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: And it's so true that like you are the president

841
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: of Harvard and you are putting in an email that

842
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: you just need to get horizontal bro to Jeffrey Epstein

843
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: about your mentee.

844
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 2: That is a problem that is not like I just yeah, And.

845
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: I think it really speaks to the fact that I'm

846
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: sure I've said this before. I don't trust any institution

847
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: where there are not women all up and through at.

848
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: The tippy tippy top.

849
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: If it's all men or mostly men left to their

850
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: own devices, I don't care if it's an ivy, the university,

851
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: the military, the Catholic priesthood.

852
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 2: The anything in the NFL.

853
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: If you don't got women all up and through at

854
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: the tippy top, I don't trust it.

855
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: Something's going on. Some shouldn't put in emails. That shouldn't

856
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: be put in any emails.

857
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 5: What and why does they sell the emails sound like

858
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five boys, Like it was really like I'm

859
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 5: just the wording, like the faces I have made throughout

860
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 5: this whole episode, Like it's just discussed and shocked because

861
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 5: I'm like.

862
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 3: Why are you saying? Why are you sounding like my

863
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 3: eighteen year old nephew right now? What is wrong with you?

864
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the same breath, it'll be like I got

865
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: to get horizontal bro.

866
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: Winki face, and then it'll be like, oh, what are

867
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: your thoughts on Trump? Don't you think he's a buffoon.

868
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: It's like, I think that might be the buffoon calling

869
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 1: the baffoon a buffoon.

870
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: All one in the saying what is happening?

871
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: It's bad.

872
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: So the fallout from Larry Summers's relationship with Epstein being

873
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 1: made clear, I actually feel like it's been pretty minimal, honestly.

874
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: Initially after making that statement, he said that he was

875
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: going to be stepping back from public roles, but continue

876
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: was going to be continuing teaching at Harvard.

877
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: So he's currently like a faculty member at Harvard. There

878
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: was a video. Maybe I'll put the audio in if

879
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: I can find it. There's a video of.

880
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: Him starting his class a couple of days ago, basically

881
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: with an apology to students, being like, Oh, I'm sorry

882
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: that I was friends with Epstein. With your permission, I'd

883
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 1: like to just like continue talking about Economics and class now.

884
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: So so after he announced that he was going to

885
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: be not stepping back from teaching, he eventually did reverse

886
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: course and said that he was going to be stepping

887
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: back for the moment. He does have ten years, so

888
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: it's not like he was fired and who knows what

889
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: will happen, you know next, but Ta's are going to

890
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: finish off the rest of his class with a semester.

891
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 2: He also resigned from the board of open Ai.

892
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: The company that makes chat GPT, and Harvard is launching

893
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 1: an investigation into his connections with Epstein, which, yeah, I'll

894
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: say they should. Elizabeth Warren, who is a law professor

895
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: at Harvard, has urged the university to cut ties with him.

896
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: And I guess the reason that I wanted to talk

897
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: about this is because, you know, when I was doing research,

898
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: one of the big pieces that I read to prepare

899
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: for this conversation was his piece in The Times about

900
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: whether or not Summers could mount a comeback since he's

901
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: bounced back so many.

902
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 2: Times in the past.

903
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 1: Now, this piece in the Time has published the day

904
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: that Summers announced that he was going to be temporarily

905
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: stepping back from his classes, and I just hated that

906
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,919
Speaker 1: the conversation was being framed just a few hours after

907
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: he announced he was just stepping down temporarily as like, well,

908
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 1: Kenna's career be saved. He's seventy years old. I don't

909
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: think that him being relieved from being in a position

910
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: to be around young you know, co eds and students

911
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: and to have this relationship where he is inherently of

912
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: an authority figure to people like that.

913
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: I don't think that's like ruining his life, you know

914
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.

915
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: Like the fact that it was even phrased that way

916
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: really bothered me. And Alejandro Carbalo, who is a clinical

917
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: instructor at Harvard Law Cyberclinic, commented online quote, it is

918
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: not normal for a professor to start a class discussing

919
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: how they regret being best buddies with a child sex trafficker.

920
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 2: And honestly, I have to agree, right like, we cannot.

921
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: This is not an apologize and move on and continue

922
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: with the economics lesson kind of thing. This is a

923
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: pretty big deal that when we should be treating it

924
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: like it's a pretty big deal.

925
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: And I think especially.

926
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: Someone like Larry Summers, who at the very least has

927
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 1: over and over again proven himself to have pretty bad

928
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: judgment when it comes to women. Having this person have

929
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: roles where he is so involved in hands on about

930
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: shaping what the future of technology looks like through things

931
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: like a board position at open AI. I just think

932
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: that we really have to think about what that means

933
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: and whether or not men like this are who we

934
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: want shaping the future of how technology shows up in

935
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: all of our lives, right, Like, I certainly do not

936
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: trust somebody like Larry Summers to be making decisions about

937
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: what our shared future is going to look Like.

938
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 5: I'm honestly so disturbed by the mere fact that people

939
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 5: are ignoring the by the heat for once, Like I'm

940
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 5: sure there's so many other instances of like sexual harassment,

941
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 5: Like she actually said, I don't want to do this?

942
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 5: Can we keep the professional? And her life is probably

943
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 5: being up ended, Like I cannot imagine, was she like

944
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 5: the trauma and the shock she's going through seeing these

945
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 5: emails of not only that having the name of Epstein,

946
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 5: like if she didn't know him, she hadn't met, and

947
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 5: knowing all the things about him, and she like, oh,

948
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 5: I literally was being trafficked. I groom trafficked kind of

949
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 5: in a way with this dude who traffics and grooms

950
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 5: women and like as his profession, Like that's what he

951
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 5: was doing. And this man who I trusted, was getting

952
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 5: like territorial slash predatorial advice for me when all I'm

953
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 5: trying to do is survive and get an education and

954
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 5: move on in this life.

955
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 3: Like there's so much to this.

956
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not like she asked to be involved

957
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: in this, And I should say, and in case it's

958
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: not clear, we don't even know that she had any

959
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: concept of the fact that this was going on, that

960
00:48:54,200 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: her mentor at Harvard was forwarding her perfectly reasonable emails

961
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: and papers and work to Jeffrey Epstein.

962
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 2: It is it just is.

963
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: Really we should be treating it as a shocking and

964
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: unacceptable thing because it is. And I guess where I

965
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: land is that we really cannot keep acting shocked when

966
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: powerful institutions protect powerful.

967
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: Men who have these like long.

968
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: And well documented histories of bad judgment, sexist thinking, and

969
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: frankly ethically grotesquees associations. Right, It's not like Summer's just

970
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: had one bad quote. He had an entire legacy of

971
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: things like minimizing discrimination, joking about women, in the workplace,

972
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: letting Epstein fund his wife's projects, and treating young women

973
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: like his mentee like a conquest that he could gain

974
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: theory his way into getting horizontal with and then describing

975
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: it in the crudest ways impossible. Right and Harvard, the

976
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: US government, tech companies, the media all kept continuing.

977
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 2: To give him power. The New York Times writing an.

978
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: Article the day that it becomes clear that he's going

979
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: to step back temporarily temporarily in teaching, asking about the

980
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: state of his career and whether or not he can

981
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: come back and bounce it back from this is exactly

982
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: what I mean.

983
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's like one of the memes that I've

984
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 4: seen going around is like something that finally brings all

985
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 4: men of any religion, of any together, is that they

986
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 4: will use young girls this way. And one of the

987
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 4: things that really frustrates me about this conversation is that, like,

988
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 4: even going back to the Bill Clinton thing, who do

989
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 4: we immediately are like, we got to protect Bill Clinton?

990
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:37,760
Speaker 3: Who are we like, oh, we got.

991
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 4: To protect Larry Summers. No, we're not talking about the

992
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 4: people who were hurt by this. You just want to

993
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,720
Speaker 4: know that this guy's career is safe. And he's fine,

994
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,280
Speaker 4: he's doing fine.

995
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 2: He is seventy years old. I don't want to sound ageist.

996
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: I just feel like at seventy years old, if you're

997
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: this kind of person, maybe we don't need you. Like

998
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: what I mean, don't say like maybe you living a

999
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,280
Speaker 1: private life with your wife who now knows all about

1000
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 1: the emails you were sending about your mentee.

1001
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 2: Maybe that is fine.

1002
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: Maybe we don't when you talk about that, like it's

1003
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: the biggest tragedy that somebody like Larry Summers doesn't get

1004
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: to have this role of authority and this role of

1005
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: influential power both over you know, Carverarde students, but also

1006
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: over all of us, right, because if you're sitting on

1007
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: the board at open AI, you do have some power

1008
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: over us. You have you you're making decisions, and you're

1009
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: you're putting out technology that is going to go on

1010
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: to shape.

1011
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 2: All of our lives.

1012
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: And I completely agree with you, Annie, I just really

1013
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: it bothers me that when the conversation is framed about

1014
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: what's going to happen to poor Larry Summers, He's gonna

1015
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 1: be fine. He's gonna be completely fine.

1016
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 3: Literally the system was built for him, like for him

1017
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 3: to be fine.

1018
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 5: The fact that he can really be like, ah, my bad, bro,

1019
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 5: we cool, like that literally was his apology, like yeah,

1020
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 5: my bad, not even like conversation about the fact that, yes,

1021
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 5: he was using his authority and power to go after women.

1022
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 5: That he's like this is this is definitely normal for me,

1023
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 5: as a professor and president of a school to try

1024
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 5: to be like intimidate women into sleeping with me. And

1025
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 5: then you know, there's so many other things, but like

1026
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 5: the fact that he can come back and be like,

1027
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 5: my bad. But you know, we're moving on, right, let

1028
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 5: me talk about economics and seems like okay, that sounds

1029
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 5: about right. This is nothing to do that doesn't affect

1030
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 5: you as a person, so it's fine as a teacher.

1031
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: And so when these rules, when people decide that because

1032
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: they are powerful or influential, these rules don't apply to them,

1033
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 1: I think it's really a problem when you get to say, oh,

1034
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: well I did this, but I too, just go on

1035
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: and continue my lesson for today, No, you don't write.

1036
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: And I think that they're saying that for a long

1037
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: time the rules did not apply to powerful people. And

1038
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: the question is whether or not we want to live

1039
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: in a world where that is the case.

1040
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 2: Right, Do we want to live in a world where.

1041
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: Someone like this gets to do things like this and

1042
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: just go on to finish their economics lesson for the day?

1043
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 2: I say no.

1044
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: And so I think, as we watch what comes out

1045
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: of this Department of Justice release with the Epstein files,

1046
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: I hope we can like resist this idea of using

1047
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: it to talk about like whether or not someone's career

1048
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: is going to be impacted or all of that. I

1049
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: think truly this will likely touch every corner of power, academia, politics, entertainment, tech, finance,

1050
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: and we should be talking about accountability, right.

1051
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:29,959
Speaker 2: We should be talking about.

1052
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: Like centering the people who were harmed, regardless of the

1053
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: resumes and power and influence of the people who were

1054
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: doing the harming.

1055
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: I think that is the bare minimum.

1056
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: And ultimately, I don't think the people shaping the future

1057
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: should be taking advice from a convicted child sex predator

1058
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: on how to pursue women at their age. I think

1059
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: that is a totally reasonable standard to set.

1060
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 2: And I will die on this hill. I don't know that.

1061
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 2: I don't care if it makes me sound like an extremist.

1062
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 2: I will die in the hill.

1063
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 5: Oh, I mean, I think a lot of pod bros

1064
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 5: are going to be mad at you about that.

1065
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 2: Come at me bros.

1066
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 4: Them in their Pizzagate and now they're like, this is

1067
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 4: no information though I know.

1068
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: It's if you go back and look at like QAnon

1069
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: and pizzagate, it's like you have emails that Hillary Clinton

1070
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 1: wrote to Podesta that are like, oh, should we get

1071
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: some pizza later? And people are like, but if you

1072
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: replaced pizza with children, think about it then.

1073
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 2: And then you have Epstein putting like up for sex

1074
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 2: crimes later and it's like, well, no, no, no, no, no.

1075
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 3: We don't know what that means, does not what that means.

1076
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 2: That's out of context exactly.

1077
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So if the Department of Justice releases these files,

1078
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure we're going to have a lot more to discuss.

1079
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 2: But that's where we're at for right now.

1080
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 5: Who yeh, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are on that list.

1081
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 5: Yeah they should also be locked up.

1082
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead.

1083
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, if anybody who is shown to have committed

1084
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: a crime should be locked up. That's the thing is like,

1085
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: I don't want abusers on my team, and I don't

1086
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: think that I think I think that we're being sold

1087
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 1: this idea of tribalism.

1088
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 2: Of like, oh, are you going to care if it's.

1089
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 1: Your favorite entertainer or your favorite you know, celebrity who

1090
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: gets taken down?

1091
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 2: No, because I don't want that.

1092
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: I don't want a person who is a criminal walking free,

1093
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: even if it's somebody who I happen to be politically

1094
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: aligned with or like enjoy their work.

1095
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 5: I mean, I haven't stopped watching many of shows because

1096
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 5: many of the celebrities have disappointed me, have shown their

1097
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 5: true color. So putting on my bane list, let's go.

1098
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, well we shall see, we shall see what happens,

1099
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 4: and I'm sure we will come back and discuss this more.

1100
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 4: And yeah, thank you so much, Bridget for breaking down

1101
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 4: such an intense topic for us.

1102
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

1103
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, you all, even though it's horrifying, you all

1104
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 1: made it.

1105
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 2: A little less.

1106
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 4: So yes, and now we might watch the Social Network

1107
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 4: together and be kind of horrified about so realities.

1108
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 2: But I'm excited they're making a sequel. They're making a sequel.

1109
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 1: Jeremy Strong is gonna play Zuckerberg like like a later.

1110
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 2: Version of Zuckerberg in the sequel. I know this sounds

1111
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 2: look it up. I read it. I read it in

1112
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 2: Deadline look it up.

1113
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 5: Are they gonna have the moments where he and Elon

1114
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 5: Musk might fight?

1115
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 2: Oh? I was just talking about that on a podcast.

1116
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 2: It I mean, say what you will about Mark Suckerberg.

1117
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg would drop Elon Musk like a sack of potato.

1118
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 2: Say what you will? You know, I hate Zuckerberg.

1119
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: I hate them both, absolutely, going Zuckerberg on this one.

1120
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 4: I hope they have the scene when he's on the

1121
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 4: wakeboard and he's.

1122
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 3: Just hal translation.

1123
00:56:58,280 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 2: I really want.

1124
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 4: That to be in the and like sad, like adult

1125
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 4: midlife crisis music playing. Yeah, that's what I want.

1126
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: My partner's mom when we showed her that picture, she

1127
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: just said, what a dweb?

1128
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 2: And I'll never forget it.

1129
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: Because I don't think I've ever heard somebody call someone

1130
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: else on dweb.

1131
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, Yesweb, but.

1132
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 4: You are correct, you are good?

1133
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1134
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, florks. Well something to look forward to. Question

1135
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 4: in the meantime, Bridget where can the good listeners find you?

1136
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: You can listen to my podcast there are no girls

1137
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: on the Internet. You can follow me on Instagram at

1138
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: bridget Ryan DC, on TikTok at bridget Ryan DC, and

1139
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: on YouTube at there are no girls on the Internet.

1140
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 4: And definitely go check that out. If you haven't already listeners.

1141
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 4: If you would like to email us, you can. Our

1142
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 4: email is Hello at Stuffmannever Told You dot com. We're

1143
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 4: on Blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast and on Instagram

1144
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 4: TikTok at stuff I Never Told You for us on YouTube,

1145
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 4: we have a book you can get wherever you can

1146
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 4: get your books, and we have new kurgaince of com Hero.

1147
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 4: Thanks as always to our superroducer Christine or executive ducer

1148
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 4: my in contributor Joey.

1149
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 3: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

1150
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 4: Stuff Never Told You hisspruction by heart Radio. For more

1151
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 4: podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out the

1152
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 4: heart Radio app podcast where if you listen to your

1153
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 4: favorite shows