WEBVTT - Molly Bloom 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.960 I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.600 Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:15.400 about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.200 we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.840 of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday or 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.880 join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.680 Molly Bloom turned the high stakes poker world upside down 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.199 and shared her story as the author of the memoir 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.800 Molly's Game, which was later adapted into an Academy Award 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:48.200 nominated film. So, Molly, you arrived in Los Angeles really 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.959 with just the promise of a couch to sleep on, 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.840 and it seems like within a year two you were 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:59.400 running the most powerful poker game in l A. How 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.360 did that happen? In It was one of those I 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:08.320 think scenarios where it's kind of random luck and then 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:14.319 also more profoundly like a girl on a mission, you know, 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.600 because I had this whole idea of how I was 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.240 going to make my life work. And from an early 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.120 age I grew up with two incredibly high achieving brothers. 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.600 One brother was number one in the world and skiing 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.080 at eighteen years old, went on to win a bunch 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.000 of world champs, two time olympian, played in the NFL. 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:39.160 I think he was an Abercrombie model at some point. 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.760 This was little brother and my middle brother, Harvard educated 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.560 cardiothoracic surgeon. So and these two were just their life 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.280 and their path was established from from the get go. 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.440 And I didn't know who I was going to be, 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:58.480 and so fumbling around and in this family was super painful, 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.760 you know, because I have a father who is larger 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.640 than life, and when he's proud of you, the sunshines. 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.640 And so I had this this life mapped out. I 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:10.920 was gonna go to the Olympics for skiing, and I 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.040 was going to check that box. And then I was 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.519 going to go to law school, preferably in Ivy League 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.640 law school, because you know, then I would have a 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:23.560 seat at this proverbial table. And I put literally everything 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.359 I had into it. I was by no means as 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.960 talented as my brother and skiing, and then I had 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:34.640 a complete spinal reconstruction. And I was also I had 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.480 to study ten times as hard as my brother Jordan 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.760 in school. But you know, but I gave it all 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.040 I had. And then at the Olympic qualifiers, I skied 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.720 over this little stick, my ski pre released, I crashed, 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.280 and you know, I was I was ready for a 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:56.120 rebellion because my life didn't work out this conventional sort 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.280 of path that I had set and and there's there's 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:04.080 this deep, deep need to be accepted in my family, 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:08.320 to be somebody, to have the significant life. And so 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.960 you know, I really the l A trip was just 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.320 I wanted to take a year off. I wanted to regroup. 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.519 I wanted to just sort of, you know, take a breather. 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.600 But when I got there and I saw how big 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.080 life is in Los Angeles, and I saw how quickly 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:30.519 your life can change, and I saw this overnight success thing. 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.080 You know, my eyes were open to a different way. 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:39.040 And then when I, by pure accident, was asked to 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.160 serve drinks at a poker game, you know, it was 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.240 kind of off to the races. Did you know how 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.680 to play poker at the time? You know what my 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.680 best kept secret, worst kept you guys still don't. I'm 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:54.880 still not great at poker. I think it's an amazing game. 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.119 What was the reaction of your family when you left 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:01.040 for Los Angeles, and how did you react to the reaction. Yeah, 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.120 they were certainly not on board for it. They really 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:08.120 wanted me to go straight to law school. They didn't 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.040 understand why I wanted to take a year and just 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.040 basically go be a kid and you know, go be 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.280 in some warm weather. I mean, I think they understood it. 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.320 I just don't think that they have approved of it. 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.360 And so you know, they're like, you're on your own financially, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.480 which was fair, but there's there is certainly an air 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.919 of disapproval. You had said that some girls have hearts 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.080 and stars in their eyes, and you had dollar signs. 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.479 I'll never forget being sixteen years old and falling in 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:40.839 love as much as the sixteen year old falls in 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.479 love for the first time. In getting my heart just eviscerated, 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:48.040 you know, And I just remember making this choice at 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.960 that point that was like, I'm going to put my 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.960 energy into things that can make me powerful and not 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:59.080 make me weak. Um. And you know, there's been some 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.720 softening of that for sure as an adult. But in 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:08.120 my early twenties, in my late teens, I wanted to 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.880 be powerful and I wanted to make money, and I 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:15.080 wanted to put myself in a position where I was 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.360 dependent on no one or nothing, and that was the plan. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.680 Can you walk us through the story of how you 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.520 ended up working for the guy and what do you 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:29.240 call him? In the book Reared In? But do you 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.039 publicly say his name in real life? Because it is 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.160 pretty google able who he is. It is google able, 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.039 and I don't say his name in real life. And 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:39.280 it's also like not a name that people would recognize. 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.320 So I feel like there's no you know, there's really 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:46.560 no point. Yeah. So I got to Los Angeles. I 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:48.560 had to get a job right away. I got a 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:52.920 job initially at this restaurant in the heart of Beverly Hills, 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.040 and I was waiting tables and there was this older 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.840 gentleman that came in and completely hit on me. And 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.279 I kind of told my manager and they're like, he's 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.200 a regular hair You're just going to have to deal 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.719 with it, you know. And I was young, and he 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.159 was like very old and coming on to be very 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.400 hard and making me very uncomfortable. And I was like, 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.720 well if this and I just walked out, you know, 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.680 and I'm like, so piste off and I'm stomping down 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.480 the street and this guy almost runs over me and 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.840 his mercedes. He's completely obnoxious, and he has this fine 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.720 dining restaurant in Beverly Hills and he's like, do you 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.239 know anything about fine dining? And I was like sure, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.279 and I knew nothing. So, like, I got fired pretty 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.360 quickly as a waitress. Um, you know, as soon as 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.200 he saw that, Like I couldn't even open a bottle 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:45.680 of wine, but he hired me as his personal assistant. 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.960 And it was his poker game at the time, and 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:54.719 he had all these very famous, very wealthy friends, and 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.760 you know, I found myself one night at the Viper 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:02.200 Room serving drinks to people that I had only seen 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:07.360 on television, seen on the news, heard about in magazines. 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.720 You know. It was it was quite an introduction to 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:16.280 that world. So once the game launched, you were really 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.200 at first just kind of the server and the concierge of, oh, 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.480 you need a restaurant reservation, I got this for you. 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.400 You want caviare, I'll bring this to you. And then 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:29.120 you had this incredible orchestration where it went from being 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:34.200 Molly as the assistant to Molly's game. I knew pretty 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:40.920 quickly early on that I wanted to have my own games. Um, 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.160 there was so much opportunity because it was it was 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.360 this opportunity to get in front of really successful people, 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:52.160 to have access to this very sort of rarefied air 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.840 and all this interesting information, and to have access to 0:07:55.880 --> 0:08:00.800 this network of people who really um move the needle 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:06.840 on the world stage. And I was just so fascinated. 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.440 And it was also really lucrative because when people are 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:16.080 using an economic system in which chips denote dollars, they're 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:17.960 super free with it, you know. So I mean I 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.920 remember I would waitress at the games and I would 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:22.920 get paid in chips, and by the end of the night, 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.200 I would make like three to five thousand dollars and 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:29.400 I was serving drinks. So just imagine if I was 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.319 it was actually my game, et cetera. So I knew 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.680 early on that I wanted to start my own game, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.320 but I was super loyal to my boss. And then 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:44.440 as I became more committed and more fascinated with this role, 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.960 I allocated more of my time and resources to the game. 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.480 And he said, this doesn't work. You're gonna I'm taking 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.560 the game away from you. You're coming back to the office. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.960 This was eight months later after I had, you know, 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:00.160 really started to establish myself, and he wouldn't reason with me, 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:03.319 and so I went out on my own and I 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.840 organized this game for the following week and I invited 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.840 everyone except for him, and that was how it started. 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.200 And his reaction was to say, I taught you well, 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:18.679 you earned this. I support you. It was crazy because 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:23.960 he was a terrifying individual. I mean, I was very 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:28.679 afraid of him. That is a very interesting lesson that 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.880 that I've learned um and that I've taken too far 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.160 at times in my life. But it started with my 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.480 sports career because I was a mobile skier and I 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.400 was a really scared little girl. Like I was real 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.640 scared of things. I wasn't super brave or fearless or anything. 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.600 And what I was taught was you can be afraid 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.000 of something and you can do it anyway. And there's 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:55.000 something very exhilarating about that, to walk through your own fear, 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.439 to walk to the other side of that. And so 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.800 that was something that I took directly from my sports 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.040 career and I applied it to business and I applied 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:06.120 it to life and I'll never forget he called me 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.320 at five am. Then the day after the game and 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.720 he was like, get over here, and I went, and 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.160 I thought he was gonna I didn't know what he 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.480 was gonna do, run me out of town. I really 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:21.240 didn't know. Um. I thought he was capable of dark things, 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:23.960 and instead he just kind of got this look on 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:25.680 his face and he's like, I'm proud of you. Could 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.480 you know? Because from the time I started working for him, 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.480 he always told me you're too soft or too nice, 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.760 You're too you're too much of a pushover. And so 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.640 it was almost like I graduated and I didn't know 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.960 exactly how to feel about that. So that period after 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.560 you had your own game, it was kind of like 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:49.040 the glory days. I mean, you were the girl in Hollywood, 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:53.160 you were known on both coasts, you had an entourage, 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.400 you had tons of helpers. Everyone wanted to get into 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.559 Molly's game. And then it kind of all came crashing down. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:06.079 How So, the first sort of crash was um when 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.880 I lost the game in l A. And that essentially 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:15.280 happened because I wouldn't acquiesce to one of the very 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:20.520 famous celebrities in the game, who really wanted to be 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.440 kind of like a silent partner in the orchestration of 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.520 the game because he was I think looking back, I 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.480 think he was addicted to the game, and he knew 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.679 how to leverage his celebrity power, and he was winning 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.679 a bunch of money, and it was it was checking 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.120 some box deep within him that was giving him an 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.679 almost like pathological obsession. And in the beginning days when 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.079 I was a cocktail waitress for the game, and even 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.000 early on when I was when I was the owner 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.040 of the game, when I started my own games, I 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.080 really I pandered to him a bit, you know, I 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.199 catered to him a bit, and then I stopped, and 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.760 he didn't like that and sort of had this strange 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.080 demand for complicity and I didn't. I didn't do it, 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.160 and and so I lost the game. He took the 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:13.160 game in a power move. And that was a terrifying 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.560 moment for me because I had finally felt like I 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.200 had something I was good at. I had something that 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:25.400 was giving me the external validation that I still wanted. 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.720 At that time. This was I was making so much money, 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:33.240 which was also like a drug, you know, and I 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.200 was so scared to lose that game. So I decided 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:39.360 I was going to go to New York City, and 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.560 I was going to build an even bigger game than 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:43.640 I was going to build an empire. You know, I 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.439 wasn't just going to have this one game like and 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.319 New York City was pretty scary and I didn't really 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:55.080 know that many people. But it was another great lesson 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.240 in you can look at something and you can see 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.920 all the reasons why they're stacked against you, why you 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.200 probably won't succeed, or you can just look at it 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.040 and go, I refuse to fail, you know. And it 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.319 was two thousand and eight, so the economy was and 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:16.920 it was disastrous, and there are all these game male 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:21.000 game runners that had run these games for twenty years 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.440 who were kind of really did not want me to 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:27.959 come to town. But I just you know, I kind 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:29.480 of put my mind to it and I got creative 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.320 and I and I did it. And you know, I 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:35.120 talked about running one of the biggest poker games in 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.560 the world in New York City, you know, people losing 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.920 a hundred million dollars in a night, like just insane, 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:49.679 not healthy, but you know, and and overcoming nonetheless. And 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:54.200 then something started to change in me in New York. 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:55.720 And I think it had been coming for a while. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.880 But New York was really where it really took its 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.400 full form, and and that is you know, I started 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.480 to get that more disease, and it was never enough, 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.840 and I wanted more power, and I wanted more money. 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:13.839 And I also the games would go for sometimes two 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.960 days at a time, and I was up for days. 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.720 So I started taking pills. I started taking adderall, you know, 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.440 in excess, and then I started taking zan X to 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.840 to take the edge off. And by this time I 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.720 was the bank for these games, so I was on 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.640 the hook of people didn't pay, and you know, then 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.560 organized crime got involved, and I was just in way, 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:44.360 way over my head. But again because I was so 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:49.400 beholden to this external world, this world of money and 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.920 validation and status and power, you know, I placed it 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.240 over my own life. Did you feel validated within your 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.880 family while all this was your life? No, my family, 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:05.280 you know, my my mom her soapbox, her platform. What 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.160 she wanted most from us was to be kind and 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.840 to do the right thing, and my dad wanted us 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.680 to be legitimate and excellent. So this thing that I 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:19.720 was doing didn't necessarily check any of those boxes. And 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.840 my family, they're real people, you know, they're not like 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.520 these sort of affected like they're not affected by like 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.720 the celebrity or the you know, they're real people with 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:33.240 real values, so this was not appealing to them. Now, 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.920 my brothers enjoyed it when they would come to visit me, 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.480 because it was you know, it was a life of 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:44.360 heathenism and excess, and but I definitely didn't feel accepted 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:50.560 by my family. And now a quick break. We can't 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.360 brush past the part where you mentioned that you got 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.360 involved with organized crime. What did that mean? You know, 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.920 I've been running these games for a while. I was 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.680 making a lot of money. Um, I became the game 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.800 to play in New York City, and I expanded. You know, 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.120 I had tons of games going all the time. So 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.320 I guess, knowing what I know now, it was inevitable 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:17.200 that organized crime was going to hear about this and 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:23.680 and want some involvement. So these two guys got to me. 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:28.400 They had to sit down. They made this proposal that 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.680 sounded friendly at the time, but I knew what was 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.040 behind it. You know. They basically said, like, we want 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:35.760 to be partners, and we want to piecy your game 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.080 and we'll help you collect and you know, basically like 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.520 going into business with the Russian I mean, with the 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:45.520 Italian mob, and so I tried to explain to them 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.440 why exactly why that wouldn't work for me, and etcetera. 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.320 And then I just started evading their calls and ignoring 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.920 their calls, and they didn't go away, you know, And 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:02.160 they sent someone to my apartment and I mistakenly thought 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.639 it was my doorman bringing up some packages. And I 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.400 opened the door and there was this face, this guy 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.520 I'd never seen in my life, and he came in 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:14.760 and he put a gun in my mouth and he 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.359 beat me up, like pretty badly, and you know, I 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:21.800 basically I was like, I have money, I have money, 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.600 you know. I opened my safe and he took everything 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:30.760 that was in their family jewelry, whatever, money, even some photographs. 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.639 And then he said, the deal that we made you 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.400 wasn't optional, you know, and if you tell anyone about this, 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.400 we know where your family lives in Colorado. And then 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.919 he left, and UM, I guess that was one of 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.760 those moments where I knew that what I was doing 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:56.440 was it was so far from center. Because I couldn't 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:01.080 call law enforcement. I didn't tell my parents, I didn't 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.960 tell anything. I was terrified. I was terrified, and I could, 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.200 you know, I just couldn't believe that now my family 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:12.080 was in danger. And and so I just waited for 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.440 the phone call. And I honestly I had no idea 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.600 what I was going to say, because this last meeting had, 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.720 you know, they had sent a pretty clear message that no, 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.199 it wasn't an answer. And so I just waited for 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.080 their call. And I was in my apartment for you know, weeks, 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.560 just getting delivery food and you know, the newspaper and 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:37.199 that's that's it, and and just trying to trying to 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.960 figure my life out. And and then then on the 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.760 on the cover of the New York Times about three 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.040 weeks later, it said ad arrested in the biggest modulated 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.840 takedown in New York City history. And so I guess 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.520 that was the answer why I hadn't heard from them 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.480 and in those weeks and and so um, you know, 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:59.280 I never heard from them again. But there were there 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.440 were other things is going on as well, wait here 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.639 are we at now when this happens? That was so 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.679 there are other things happening. And so in twenty eleven 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.240 you became embroiled in legal drama. So there were some 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:17.720 guys playing in the game. They were Russian American businessmen, 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:23.199 super sophisticated. Said they were Ivy League like, totally played 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.520 pulled that off. Um might have even been I'm not sure, 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.240 But it turns out that they were running the biggest 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.480 insurance forrod scheme in New York City history, and they 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.440 had alleged tied to the Russian mob. So the FEDS 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.600 are listening to their phones and then they start to 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:39.920 hear about these games, these hundred million dollar poker games 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.919 run by this girl. Up until that point, around that point, 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.760 I had been doing it legally. And then two things changed. 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:52.600 One I changed that I started to get very sloppy. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.560 You know, substance abuse had become a problem. Stress had 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.640 become a problem. I was getting sloppy. I like I said, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:01.920 I was the bank and I was accruing a pretty 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.000 big debt sheet. So on some of the games where 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.240 I had more exposure, I started taking a rake, which 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.400 is what every other game runner in New York City did, 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.239 but up until this point I hadn't done that. And 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.840 then there was a new precedent set under this law 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.840 that I got indicted for in the Eastern District. Now, 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.520 for the first time, poker running a poker game is 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.000 included in this federal statute. Up until that point, it 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.000 hadn't been, so even though I was taking a rake, 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.119 it was still my My attorney said, like, this is 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.600 a miste meanter, you know, And that's not to excuse it, 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:37.880 but that's just to give you some context. And where 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:39.959 my thought process was, you didn't think you were committing 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.080 a federal felony. I did not. Um, And then there's 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.840 this new precedent set in the Eastern District, and that 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.159 sort of set off a series of events. The Feds 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:54.280 put in a confidential informant into my poker game, and 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.919 then they were able to have a you know, a 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:02.000 c I witnessed me taking and then UM, I got 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.240 a text message from one of my poker dealers saying 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.720 that the Feds are here looking for you. And in 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:11.040 that moment, I knew it was finally finally game over. 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.919 And all I can tell you is that I just 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.439 wanted I just I wanted my mom, you know, I 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.080 wanted to go home to Colorado. I wanted my mom. 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.600 So I tried to like go straight to the airport. 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:25.679 I tried to book a ticket to Denver out of 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.240 JFK and my credit card got declined, and then my 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.240 next card got declined, and I logged into my bank 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:36.959 accounts and it showed an account balance of negative nine million, 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:42.359 and the Feds had taken everything. And I got home. 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.200 I made it home to my mom's and basically that 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:48.560 after my attorney spoke to them. They said, you know, 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:52.200 in this country, your your property, unlike your personhood, doesn't 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:54.840 have the presumption of innocence. So if they believe you're 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.360 making your money illegally, they can seize it without without 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.640 proving their case. And and then they said to my attorney, 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:03.920 she's not a target of our investigation right now, but 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:06.000 you know, if she wants her money back, she can 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.000 come in and go on record and talk about how 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.919 she was making that money and the world that she 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:14.439 was navigating. And you know, I didn't have that. I 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:17.680 didn't have that freedom anymore because I had been taking 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.480 a break. I had been breaking a low. So I 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:23.399 had no choice but to just go away, you know. 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:25.840 And I moved back in with my mom and my 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.760 grandmother at like nine thousand feet in the mountains, and 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:35.159 it was really depressing and really quiet and beautiful, you know. 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.919 So beautiful up there, but lonely scary. Where do I 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.200 go from here? But while you were in the mountains, 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.439 you wrote your story. I did, so you know, I'm 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:48.760 in the mountains. I'm I'm making phone calls. I'm trying 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:50.560 to get a job. I'm trying to reach out to 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:54.840 my network, and nobody wants to take my call. And 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:56.800 in some ways I understand that, and in some ways 0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:59.479 it's not what I would have done, you know. And 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.600 so I I tried to get as First of all, 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:05.520 I got clean. I went to rehab, and I got sober, 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.040 and then I got I tried to get real clear, 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.159 like I don't want this to be the end of 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:13.760 my life, you know, I don't want to just like 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:18.560 give up. And so I said, the story is unique. 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:23.560 Most of the time we hear about this story with 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.719 a with a mail as the lead, as the main character. 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:31.480 And I'm really interested in stories that allow women to 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:36.439 be dimensional and not just the stereotypical thing that we 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:39.159 see over and over and over, and so like, it 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:41.959