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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know from House Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles Seby, Chuck Bryant, sons out. Jerry's over there.

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Speaker 1: It's the end of July. There's a son out. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell him this tone? I can see I have

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Speaker 1: a window. I can look out behind you over your shoulder.

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Speaker 1: You must I mean this. I can't imagine you're not depressed,

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Speaker 1: just staring at foam. Yeah. When I look behind me,

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Speaker 1: it's like, jeez, but you're the light. Thanks. That just

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Speaker 1: makes everything. Okay. That's so nice of you. You're making

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Speaker 1: me blessed. I know. So how are you doing? Oh

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Speaker 1: I'm sleepy? Okay, well, well let's get this over with.

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Speaker 1: So sucking. Let good ticking naps and I guess we

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Speaker 1: have those like Japanese style nap rooms here. We're very forward. Thing.

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Speaker 1: That would be wonderful House the Works. Yeah. I don't

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Speaker 1: think i'd be able to do that at work take

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Speaker 1: a nap, no, no way, No, I don't think I

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Speaker 1: would be able to either. But I would think it'd

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Speaker 1: be wonderful just because it would show how progressive how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works is. We should have nap um cubbies that

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Speaker 1: are like plexi, so you can just watch people nap.

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Speaker 1: How uncomfortable would that be? Or yeah, it would be

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Speaker 1: very uncomfortable. There's probably one or two weirdos here that

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Speaker 1: would love to do that. Yeah. Jonathan Strickland sucks is

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Speaker 1: thumb not a surprise. Um? Yeah, this was cobbled together,

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Speaker 1: this one, which is unusual. Yeah. Where where did you

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Speaker 1: get some of the information? One was the International Southern

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Speaker 1: Cemetery Gravestones Association, and the other was the U S

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Speaker 1: Department of Veterans Affairs, definitive sources. You know all about

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Speaker 1: headstones and grave markers and tombstones yea by any name. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the professionals who make headstones or grave markers

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Speaker 1: or tombstones call them funeral markers, are grave markers. That's

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Speaker 1: the lingo of the jargon of the industry. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: this pairs nicely with our Coffins podcast. Dude, it pairs

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Speaker 1: nicely with a bunch of them. This is part of

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Speaker 1: the Dying Suite. Will never end until we die. Here

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Speaker 1: lies Josh and Chuck the death Swite. Um, So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: you want to talk a little bit about the history

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Speaker 1: of this stuff. I've got a little bit of history.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you have or not about how

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Speaker 1: long humans have been burying the dead. Let's hear it,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty old. As a matter of fact, there's evidence

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Speaker 1: of like weird funeral rights kind of at least an

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Speaker 1: assemblage of people acting differently, or an assemblage of primates

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Speaker 1: acting differently, um around a recently deceased member of their

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Speaker 1: group in bunabo um apes. So they'd like to poke

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Speaker 1: it and think it's not moving. Um. I don't think

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Speaker 1: they were poking it, but the way that they were

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Speaker 1: interacting with one another, like those with the highest rank

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Speaker 1: had the most access to the body. Um, they were

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Speaker 1: kind of guarding it from being disturbed. Uh, like early

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Speaker 1: signs of respect. Interesting and apparently Neanderthals as well, UM

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Speaker 1: used to as as as far back as two fifty

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Speaker 1: years ago. There's evidence that parts of the dead Neanderthals

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Speaker 1: were put away from the rest of the group in

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Speaker 1: what you could consider like a resting place like a

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Speaker 1: cave or something like that. I wonder if that started

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Speaker 1: because of just obvious things like smell and rotting bodies,

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Speaker 1: or if it was just or maybe both. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're hard wired for disgust to experience disgust, and disgust

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Speaker 1: warrns is like, don't eat that poop unless it's a

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Speaker 1: fecal transplant. Um, don't eat that vomit under any circumstances.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff that you shouldn't do, like

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Speaker 1: don't don't um eat that dead body. It's turned Um,

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Speaker 1: it's not a nice fresh dead body. So I would

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Speaker 1: guess that funeral rites grew out of the our sense

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Speaker 1: of disgust. Like you're saying, um, the that's just kind

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Speaker 1: of ambiguous stuff. Though the Neanderthals like they they de

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Speaker 1: fleshed bones and then place the bones in separate places.

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Speaker 1: Some people are like, well, it's evidence of cannibalism. Other

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Speaker 1: people are saying, that's a funerary practice. The unambiguous evidence

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Speaker 1: of burials comes I think about eighty thousand years ago,

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Speaker 1: between forty thousand and eighty thousand years ago in Egypt,

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Speaker 1: child was buried um next to a cobble pit. What's that?

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Speaker 1: It's where you like, you excavate stone to like pave

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Speaker 1: roads or something with although forty tho years ago they

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Speaker 1: weren't making roads. I'm not sure what a cobble pit

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Speaker 1: is nothing to do with it's an excavation pit. Um.

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Speaker 1: I guess that they were excavating stones to make tools.

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Speaker 1: I would guess rather them roade. But there was a

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Speaker 1: child buried by anatomically modern humans between forty thousand and

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Speaker 1: eighty thousand years ago, so we've been doing it for

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Speaker 1: a very long time. Yeah, but this is just burial. Right. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about our headstones and they didn't come along

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Speaker 1: until far after that, right. Uh, Well, there weren't well

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Speaker 1: let's go back and them further to Roman and Celtic times. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they had headstones that there were kind of it seems

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Speaker 1: like they were pretty advanced for the time. And then

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Speaker 1: there was a period where they weren't so um detailed,

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Speaker 1: but early on they were super detailed. They would have pictures.

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Speaker 1: They would describe things that happened, these battles that took place.

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Speaker 1: If they died in battle and uh, Salmon's in Scotland,

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Speaker 1: they would describe the profession maybe uh if sometimes it

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Speaker 1: was pictorial, like if someone was a carpenter, they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say here lies a carpenter. They would just have a

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Speaker 1: hammer maybe, um, like a saw. Yeah, that's a that

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Speaker 1: giveaway that it was a carpenter. Uh. Scotland was very descriptive.

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Speaker 1: Apparently in their early days of headstones too, they would

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Speaker 1: describe professions. So like early on it seems just like

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Speaker 1: the profession was a big deal, right, like this is

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Speaker 1: what they did here on earth. And in other cultures too,

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Speaker 1: there was this idea that you could erect a memorial

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Speaker 1: to somebody by placing a stone or something, an upright stone,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily at their grave, but like there's things called

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Speaker 1: stella um that are basically just markers that say like

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Speaker 1: this person did this um, or this person fought this

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Speaker 1: battle in one or lost, or this person was great

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Speaker 1: for some reason that makes us want to memorialize it

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Speaker 1: by carving this into a stone and placing it upright

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Speaker 1: and never said this person didn't do so much. Not really,

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Speaker 1: that came later in the twentieth century. But the idea

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Speaker 1: of stones period was before gravestones even. I think the

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Speaker 1: term headstone from what I gathered, is from the Jewish

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Speaker 1: custom of marking graves with stones and then um. I

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Speaker 1: think the other cultures did that too, like uh, supposedly

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Speaker 1: to keep the dead from rising, they would I thought

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Speaker 1: that was cool. But I've also heard and I think

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Speaker 1: it makes sense that they didn't want the bodies to

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Speaker 1: be disturbed by, you know, packs of wild coyotes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so to combat that, and if you were lazy and

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Speaker 1: didn't feel like burying, or you lived in a place

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Speaker 1: where the dirt was just too hard, you could make

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Speaker 1: something called a cairn or carn. Yes, c A I

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Speaker 1: r n and right, yeah, I'm not sure I was pronounced,

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Speaker 1: which is basically like you lay the body on the ground,

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Speaker 1: maybe you dig out a little bit of a shallow pit,

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Speaker 1: and then you place rocks around and on top of

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Speaker 1: it so that no, not even like the hungriest coyote

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Speaker 1: is not going to be able to get through this

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Speaker 1: pile of rubble. And then you may also erect like

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Speaker 1: a marker at the head of it. Sure, and these

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Speaker 1: I think at this point pre nineteenth century, I don't

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Speaker 1: even think there were cemeteries. It was just you would

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Speaker 1: be buried near your family plot, near your home with

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Speaker 1: your family. Um, but they weren't all gathered together a

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Speaker 1: bunch of dead people in one area. Uh well, it

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Speaker 1: was the whole family, was there, Yeah, but not like

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Speaker 1: a cemetery. And then depending um, on where how how

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Speaker 1: many people lived in a village, say, eventually that morphed

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Speaker 1: into a churchyard. The graveyard was moved to the church

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Speaker 1: because the church was so intertwined in people's everyday lives

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Speaker 1: that it just made sense that that's where you would

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Speaker 1: go to be buried. The thing is these were almost um,

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Speaker 1: purposefully gloomy places. They were um reminders. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a reminder that you're gonna die a memnto maori. The

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Speaker 1: churchyard itself was a reminder that you're gonna die. Um.

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Speaker 1: And they were not landscaped. They were usually they had

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Speaker 1: a fence around him maybe, and there were the markers,

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Speaker 1: but that was about it. It wasn't meant to be

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Speaker 1: a place of solace or peace or meditation. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: one over in my neighborhood. There's a churchyard. Uh cemetery,

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Speaker 1: and it is it feels a little different than just

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Speaker 1: your average cemetery. It is, it looks a little different,

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Speaker 1: and it's does seem a little like I don't know. Well,

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Speaker 1: the reason why is because you and I are used

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Speaker 1: to what's called the Rural Cemetery Movement, the the RCM. Right,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have that T shirt but that that

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Speaker 1: was that came out of the nineteenth century. The I

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Speaker 1: think um the early mid nineteenth century where this idea.

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Speaker 1: As cities built up and people became further and further

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Speaker 1: removed from nature, and you also had less and less

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Speaker 1: space to just bury somebody in a churchyard, they started

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Speaker 1: moving the dead slightly to the outskirts of the city

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Speaker 1: and also put some thought into landscaping the area as well.

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Speaker 1: So what you have is what you and I think

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Speaker 1: of as a modern cemetery, very park like, nice shrubbery

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Speaker 1: um paved roads that that allow people to go through

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Speaker 1: a nice place for visitors. So much so that very

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Speaker 1: early on in the rural cemetery movement, for a while

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Speaker 1: families would go picnic there on Sundays. It was like

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Speaker 1: a park, but you also plant you're dead there too.

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Speaker 1: It was a little bit of both, but it and

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Speaker 1: also during this time that's not very surprising because during

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Speaker 1: this time death was so much more fully intricate, integrated

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Speaker 1: into the life of the average person that um having

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Speaker 1: a picnic there on a Sunday it didn't seem at

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Speaker 1: least bit bizarre. Macaw. Yeah, there weren't the hang ups

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Speaker 1: like we have these days. It seems like right, because

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Speaker 1: nowadays it's sterilized and removed. Death is Yeah. Back to

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Speaker 1: the headstones the Celts started using once Christianity came to Ireland,

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Speaker 1: they started using the the Celtic cross, which was originally

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Speaker 1: the I think called the sun cross, which was a

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Speaker 1: pagan symbol. But then um, I think St Patrick and

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Speaker 1: put the Christian cross over the sun cross and we

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Speaker 1: now had our Celtic cross and they started using that

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Speaker 1: became kind of a common but again not um specific,

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Speaker 1: just sort of like an unmarked grave still with the

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Speaker 1: Celtic cross, no inscription, right right, Yeah, that didn't come

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Speaker 1: until later. But like you said, there was um, there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of symbology or symbols attached, and then

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Speaker 1: over time it evolved to include things like date of birth,

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Speaker 1: date of death, the person's name, um, and then inscriptions

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Speaker 1: later on. Yeah, and thanks also to the Irish um.

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Speaker 1: They were the first ones I believed to get a

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Speaker 1: little cheeky with their uh sense of humor um And

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but well they probably yeah. But one

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Speaker 1: example that in the article I read said I think

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Speaker 1: of me as you walk by where you now stay,

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Speaker 1: and so once did I, which is you know for

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Speaker 1: the eighteenth century. That's that's a big time funny, right

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Speaker 1: because it rhymes yeah exactly. But again that's what's called

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Speaker 1: the memento More. It's like a reminder that you're gonna die,

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Speaker 1: so don't get too big for your breeches or don't

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Speaker 1: forget to go live your life. There's all sorts of

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Speaker 1: reasons for that. Uh. And America and the colonies, um,

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Speaker 1: colonial times, it wasn't super fancy um, and they used

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Speaker 1: they started to use things like limestone and marble instead

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Speaker 1: of wood, which would last longer in sandstone. But then

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen sixties they moved to igneous rock. Which

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Speaker 1: always want to say ignacious because of I always want

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Speaker 1: to say because Confederacy dunces. I think was it the

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Speaker 1: name of one of the characters. Yeah, the main guy,

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Speaker 1: Ignacious Riley was. It's igneous. What about saying ignacious who?

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Speaker 1: I don't know who was? If there was ever a

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Speaker 1: name for a saint, it's ignacious saying ignacious? But what

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Speaker 1: was he? The saint? I don't remember, just his name

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Speaker 1: always stood out to me like that is a saints name,

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Speaker 1: patron saint of podcasting? All right, Um. In the six

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Speaker 1: so they started using the igneous rock, which is underground

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Speaker 1: cooled rock, and that was much more permanent because other

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Speaker 1: stuff crumbled and you know the sandstone. Yeah, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about weathering, shall we. Um And in colonial times too,

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Speaker 1: when they were using these markers and headstones. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: symbology has been a part of headstones for a very

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Speaker 1: long time, whether it was the Celtic cross or a

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Speaker 1: saw to indicate a carpenter or whatever. And in the colonies, apparently,

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Speaker 1: um they like to remind everybody that only the most

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Speaker 1: pious select few we're going to go to heaven. The

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Speaker 1: rest of you are going to hell. Like, no bones

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Speaker 1: about it, buddy, you are going to hell. Sorry, And um,

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Speaker 1: I would like to use my headstone to remind you

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Speaker 1: of it. So I'm gonna put a sculling crossbones on it,

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Speaker 1: the death's head. They carved the death head, the death's

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Speaker 1: head onto the gravestone to remind others that they were

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Speaker 1: going to hell. That's what the Puritans did. Yeah. The

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Speaker 1: Victorians were fancy and always so they had really elaborate

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Speaker 1: headstones and tombs, and they were also big on like

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Speaker 1: the really nice park atmosphere. Well that's what that's what

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Speaker 1: it grew out of, was the Victorian era. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you sent a link to about some what some of

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Speaker 1: the Victorian symbols mean, right, Yeah, they had some there's

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Speaker 1: weren't quite as they weren't intended to be a reminder

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Speaker 1: that you're going to hell. They were a lot more

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Speaker 1: hopeful and a lot of these you still see on

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Speaker 1: tombstones today, headstones like modern ones and people who are

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Speaker 1: buried today, Like you'll see a bundle of wheat gathered together,

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Speaker 1: and that's the indicate that somebody lived a nice, long

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Speaker 1: life and and they were harvested and they will go

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Speaker 1: on and into the next life. A gateway might be

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Speaker 1: nice because that means sure, that's the gateway to heaven. Yes,

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Speaker 1: any kind of arch or gate Yeah, butterfly is the

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Speaker 1: symbol of resurrection. That's very nice. Um, if you have

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Speaker 1: a broken column, it indicates that you were cut down

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Speaker 1: in the prime of life, taken too young. Um. If

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Speaker 1: you have a flower that's broken, have you ever seen that?

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Speaker 1: Uh No, it's like it's it's it'll be like a

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Speaker 1: rose or something and then it's like snapped into That

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Speaker 1: indicates that, um, you were you died suddenly and if

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Speaker 1: it's a bud, if it's not an open flower, it

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Speaker 1: indicates it was a child. So there's like all this code. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: an hourglass is the transience of this life, right, or lamp,

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Speaker 1: the light of truth. Clasped hands, you know where there's

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Speaker 1: like somebody holding somebody else's hand that means like take care,

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Speaker 1: I'll see you in a few years. Or the saddest

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe the willow tree. That's just morning and that's

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Speaker 1: just really sad. It is sad, but there's none of

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Speaker 1: these are reminders that you're going to You're gonna go

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Speaker 1: to hell when you die. It's gonna be bad. The

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Speaker 1: Victorians were a little more uplifting. If anybody had their

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Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of death, it was the Victorians.

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Speaker 1: They just knew what they were doing. Another thing human

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Speaker 1: beings did in the eighteenth century was more safe. These cages,

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Speaker 1: iron cages they would put over um. But the Victorians

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Speaker 1: were like, no, that's really untoward. Well get rid of those.

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Speaker 1: Part of the reason why is because there wasn't that

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Speaker 1: need for it anymore. It was remember the cairns or

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Speaker 1: the carns me to stay carns. And it's probably wrong,

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Speaker 1: but that was to protect from coyotes disturbing the grave.

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Speaker 1: He also said Morls, yeahs and Kama Jacoma. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what I said, Laura said Jacama. The more safe were

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Speaker 1: to protect the body from being dug up by people

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Speaker 1: who were robbing graves to sell the body to anatomists. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or I imagine, you know, maybe loot the body as well.

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Speaker 1: On your way, like here's your body. Um, disregard where

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Speaker 1: that wedding gold wedding band was on the finger right?

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Speaker 1: Remember Mr Burns has um the suit that Charlie Chaplin

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Speaker 1: was buried in in a shadow box on it. That's

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Speaker 1: a good one. Uh. And that kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: brings us I guess, I mean that's skipping forward though.

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Speaker 1: But the modern era, the last hundred years has been um,

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Speaker 1: I mean headstone. The headstone industry is a big deal.

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Speaker 1: It's it's you know, people put a lot of thought

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Speaker 1: into what goes on their headstone or their family's headstone,

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Speaker 1: and cost a lot of money. And you can be

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Speaker 1: as ornate as you want to, or you can do

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Speaker 1: like in Royal Tannin bombs and invent your own fake headstone,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty good. You wanting to talk about some

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Speaker 1: of these ones. Yeah, some of these epitats. We have

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Speaker 1: the slide show on stuff you Should Know dot Com

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Speaker 1: called the twenty one remark Coble Epitaphs, and it is

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Speaker 1: definitely worth checking out. Um, and this one's my favorite.

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Speaker 1: Chuck Charleskowski, Yeah, Fewkowski's don't try that on. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: he has a little pugilist too. Yeah. Well, he was

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Speaker 1: a huge boxing fan. I think he might have been

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Speaker 1: a boxer himself. He died, yeah, crazy. Yeah, for some reason,

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Speaker 1: I thought he was like in the eighties or something. No,

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Speaker 1: he's still working in the eighties. Yeah. Boy, he didn't

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Speaker 1: look good there at the end. Well, he pretty much

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Speaker 1: drank him to death, I know, but he Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: looked really bad. I remember seeing a documentary I think

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Speaker 1: from the eighties or not early nineties. Is that the

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Speaker 1: one where he like kicks his wife off of the

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Speaker 1: couch or something. He's like being physically abusive in the documentary.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't a nice fellow. No, he really wasn't. No,

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Speaker 1: he's not at all. You saw bar Flat, right, That's

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Speaker 1: one of my all time favorite movies. I figured it's

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Speaker 1: a good one. Who's that one? Mitchell's Oh, it's just

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Speaker 1: a person. Yeah, these are just like no worthy. Well

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Speaker 1: this sucks that awesome, Yeah, that seems like something I

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Speaker 1: might do. Actually, well this sucks on your grace stone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because this got me thinking of what I would want,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, And I mean I didn't come up

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Speaker 1: with anything, but I think I would just want something

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Speaker 1: sort of like humble, like, you know, he tried his best,

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Speaker 1: but you know, maybe he didn't do such a good

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Speaker 1: job all the time. Yet more, I wouldn't want to

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Speaker 1: like flout, like to out anything or trump up in

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Speaker 1: a life, you know, like he was a simple dude

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Speaker 1: who tried to not be such a jerk. How's that?

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Speaker 1: That's a good one. What about mel Blanks? Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: all folks, that's a good one. Man. Of one thousand voices,

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Speaker 1: that's very nice. Some of these are a little smallsey

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Speaker 1: and sweet. This one was good. Robert Klay Allison his tombstone.

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Speaker 1: He died in seven at the age of forty seven.

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Speaker 1: His epitaph says he never killed a man that did

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Speaker 1: not need killing. That's pretty good. That's a gun slinger

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Speaker 1: right there. Did you know that only like four or

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Speaker 1: five times in the history of the United States, where

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Speaker 1: was there an actual gunfight in the center of town. No,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a good don't be dumb. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: make a mental note. I think it's verified like five

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Speaker 1: times or something. It's very much a movie thing. I

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Speaker 1: mean there were plenty of gun you know, people shooting

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Speaker 1: in gunfights, but but like the whole like, hi, yeah,

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Speaker 1: come out in the middle of town and draw your

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Speaker 1: guns at the tick of the clock or whatever. You know.

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Speaker 1: Whaticed was a surprisingly good movie Three o'clock High. Did

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Speaker 1: you ever see that Richard Tyson and Casey Samasco. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I saw that when it came out and thought, man,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of a different movie. And then years

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Speaker 1: later it's sort of a cult favorite. Uh. That guy

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Speaker 1: what was his name in the movie The Bully but

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Speaker 1: his real name, No, his name in the movie, I

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Speaker 1: don't remember. It was like he had like a scary

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Speaker 1: first name or something, and he went on to a sale.

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Speaker 1: Arnold Schwartz and anger in Kindergarten Cop. I didn't see

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Speaker 1: Kindergarten Cop. Really, Yeah, you should see it? All right,

358
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Speaker 1: you want to do anymore? We should we just tell

359
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Speaker 1: everybody to go check these out. I think we should

360
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Speaker 1: just near let's see this one more raised four beautiful

361
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Speaker 1: daughters with only one bathroom, and still there was love.

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Speaker 1: That's nice, It is nice. He wants to be morbid,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I think there's something to

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Speaker 1: be said. You're just gonna be some morbids. Mine will

365
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Speaker 1: probably say boom, I'm coming to get you right and chuck.

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Speaker 1: One more thing about um epitaphs and gravestones before we

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Speaker 1: move on. UM. There was this thing. Remember why two

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Speaker 1: K y two K bug I wasn't sold on that

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Speaker 1: to begin with, Well, there are a lot of potential problems.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't just with computer programs. One of them was

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Speaker 1: the grave marker industry. A lot of people by their

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Speaker 1: headstones ahead of time, and they had nineteen and then

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Speaker 1: nothing after the date because they expected to die in

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Speaker 1: the twentieth century. Well, a lot of people had to

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Speaker 1: have this filled in and re etched because they lived

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Speaker 1: into the two thousand's. There was a big problem, and

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Speaker 1: apparently a lot of long standing UM gravestone makers around

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Speaker 1: the sixties or seventies started really trying to persuade their

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Speaker 1: customers did not etch that in. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: didn't listen, some people did, some people didn't. Why would

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Speaker 1: you get that done ahead of time? I understand picking

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Speaker 1: out your plot and you're what you wanted to say,

383
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Speaker 1: but the actual etching, like who cares? I guess these

384
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Speaker 1: people really didn't want their families that have to do

385
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Speaker 1: almost anything. I get that, like, just put nine nine

386
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Speaker 1: in there, like I'm alive, it's two thousand. I gotta

387
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: call that guy. Yeah exactly. I mean, what a what

388
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Speaker 1: a thing to have on your to do list. You

389
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Speaker 1: need to get my epithelf filled in and recarve, drink

390
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Speaker 1: ovaltee and get epithets carve um. All right, So we'll

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Speaker 1: move on here after this message break and talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about military graves and government funded headstone Okay,

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Speaker 1: so government furnished headstones and this is from the Veterans

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Speaker 1: Affairs website. But I thought that's pretty interesting. They also

395
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Speaker 1: call them Obama stones. That was off the cup. That

396
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: was good originally. UM. I found it interesting that standard

397
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Speaker 1: grave markers were even before the national cemeteries were established

398
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Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty two, and they had, like you know,

399
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Speaker 1: prior to the Civil War, they had all these frontier

400
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Speaker 1: armies and they would just bury you in uh, don't

401
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Speaker 1: bury me on the open prairie. Basically they would bury

402
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Speaker 1: you if you died in battle, not a mass grave

403
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Speaker 1: as in they would dump everyone in there, but um

404
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Speaker 1: a mass grave site. Yeah. Initially, like they would just

405
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Speaker 1: bury everyone together, or and they wouldn't even market yeah,

406
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Speaker 1: or you were just buried in battle like where you

407
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Speaker 1: died if things were really tough, yeah, if yeah, if

408
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Speaker 1: you were lucky. I'm quite sure there are plenty of

409
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Speaker 1: soldiers who were not left on the frontier to basically

410
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Speaker 1: be picked off by vultures sky burial sky burials on

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Speaker 1: the on the American front here. Um, yeah, you're exactly right,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure. It wasn't until like the nineteenth century that

413
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Speaker 1: they started even marking these mask grades. It was like, oh,

414
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Speaker 1: a bunch of soldiers died here, let's take a pit,

415
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Speaker 1: fill it in and just forget about it. Then in

416
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Speaker 1: the mid nineteenth century, like the Crimean War, for example,

417
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Speaker 1: they would raise a monument saying, there's a bunch of

418
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Speaker 1: guys buried here who fell in this battle. And it

419
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Speaker 1: wasn't until World War One that they started to really

420
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Speaker 1: try to individually bury men who fell in battle. Yeah. Initially,

421
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Speaker 1: in the Civil War days, they would um used a

422
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: wooden board, UM, and it would have a registration number

423
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: and some sort of inscription. But they didn't keep any

424
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: kind of records of burials at that point. That came

425
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: along later as well. But once the Civil War happened

426
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: after the Battle of Manassas, they were like, a lot

427
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: of people are dying here. This is becoming a problem,

428
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: Like we need to find a way to respect these soldiers.

429
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: And oh, the Quartermaster General Um from the General's Orders

430
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: in September eighteen sixty one was directed to finally start

431
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: keeping records and provide headboards headboards in blank forms to

432
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: all of the commanders around the country so they could

433
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: just keep track of everything at least, right, And this

434
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: is the first time that anybody ever made a coordinated

435
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: effort to track burials ever. Apparently. Yeah, and after the

436
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: Civil War they made an effort for the first time

437
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: to relocate um people that were buried in battle and

438
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: have them relocated to an official grave. Yeah. After the

439
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: Civil War. Oh yeah, because they had a bunch of

440
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: Confederate dead that the Southern States reclaimed and moved down

441
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: south to bury so that they wouldn't have to be

442
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: buried in any Yankee earth. Yankee dirt. Uh. In eighteen

443
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: sixty five is when they started thinking, hey, these wooden

444
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: burial markers are not lasting very long. No, they were

445
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: expected to last about five years. They each cost at

446
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: the time a dollar twenty three, which is not cheap.

447
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: And so when you suddenly multiplied that by the three

448
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 1: hundred thousand expected dead from the Civil War that you

449
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: had to bury and then maintain their their headboards every

450
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: five years, they suddenly were like, this is gonna go

451
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: well into a million dollars over the next twenty years.

452
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: Maybe we should come up with something a little more

453
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,239
Speaker 1: permanent than popsicle sticks. It was the economics of it,

454
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: and the public sentiments started growing to um to hey,

455
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: maybe we should memorialize these soldiers in a more permanent way. Yeah,

456
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: because a little wood thing that's rotting after a few

457
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: years is pretty kind of a disrespectful thing. And apparently

458
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: there was a huge and um vigorous debate over what

459
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: we should use as a headstone. Should we use like

460
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: something like marble, or should we use something like galvanized

461
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: iron coated in zinc, which I wasn't even familiar that

462
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: was the thing until today. Yeah, I've never heard of

463
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: it either. And I guess over the course of like

464
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: seven years there was a lot of debate and angry

465
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: words flying, and and um, I'm sure the marble industry

466
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, yeah, Marble, and the galvanized iron industry

467
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: was like, you better get in there and get this passed.

468
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: And then finally the marvel people won. Yeah. And in

469
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy three, Secretary of War William W. Bell nap

470
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: Um said, you know what we're gonna design. These stones

471
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: are gonna be in national cemeteries, are going to be permanent,

472
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: but they're only gonna be for the known dead at

473
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: this point. The unknown came about later as well. And

474
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: not only that this is just for Union soldiers. Yeah,

475
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: that we're not providing for the Confederate soldiers was a

476
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: bit of a slap in the base. I believe they

477
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: reversed that position later on, and they did. And then

478
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: anybody who'd ever fallen in battle in the United States

479
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: got a marker, and they made different markers for the

480
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: unknown dead. They were basically just blocks of stone, and

481
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: then it had the grave the burial plot carved into

482
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: the top of it. And then eventually they said we're

483
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: gonna make all of them the same everybody gets the

484
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: same marker. Yeah, and they made it retroactive to and

485
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: started started including past wars, Revolutionary War, War of eighteen twelve,

486
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: Mexican War, and Indian campaigns, and then eventually the Spanish

487
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: American War. So a lot of thought went into it.

488
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: I thought it was just kind of never really think

489
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: about that kind of thing. You just see like Arlington,

490
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: and you don't think about all the behind the scenes

491
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: work and decisions that need to be made on exactly

492
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: how to do that. Yeah. And they even did a

493
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: study in nineteen two to find out how the the

494
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy nine markers were holding up, and they said,

495
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: we need to change these a little bit. So if

496
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: anyone ever asks you what the official military um headstone

497
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: in the US dimensions are, this would be the most

498
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: arcane piece of trivia anyone would asked. It's pretty arcane,

499
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: but you could probably impress some weird uncle or your

500
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: grandpa or something like that with this one. Uh. The

501
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: height of the stone is thirty nine inches tall, twelve

502
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: inches wide, and the thickness is four inches and apparently

503
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: the height extends twelve inches above the ground, so you

504
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,239
Speaker 1: have twenty seven inches Bury below the ground. You've been

505
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: to Darlington, m hm, it's pretty neat. It is really something.

506
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: You go to Oakland Cemetery here in Atlanta, Yep, I've

507
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: been there too. Yeah, it's pretty nice. It is really something. Yeah.

508
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: And they Oakland even has and I've always felt I

509
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: don't think I have death hang ups, but they have

510
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: like concerts there and stuff like that. Yeah. And I

511
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: think they show movies there, yeah, I think so. Like

512
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: in the outside, um, there's some really neat mausoleums. There's

513
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: like a miniature, uh, statue of Liberty. There's some really ornate,

514
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: beautiful mausoleums. Bobby Jones, the famous golfer, is buried there,

515
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: and there's a putting green on his graves. I've never

516
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: seen that one. Yeah, if you if you, there's usually

517
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: golf balls there. I think if you bring your own

518
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: putter you can just sit there and put on his grave. Interesting. Yeah,

519
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: well I just recently saw Washington and Mrs Washington's grave

520
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: at Um up there in d C. Which was cool. Um,

521
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: but they were moved as well. That one's really kind

522
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: of when you go there to Mount Vernon, you know

523
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: you see them Bury. Oh yeah, we saw that recently too. Yeah,

524
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: you see, they were moved from their original one, but

525
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: the original tomb is still there and they made a

526
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: nicer one. And then there's the slave burial ground, which

527
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: is just a really kind of a sad place to

528
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: visit because it's not I mean, they've done something now,

529
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: but um, I don't know, it's just sort of a reminder, yeah,

530
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: of what went on, which, um, you know, speaking of

531
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: that Washington, it was like, you know, he's lauded for

532
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: freeing his slaves, but it was after he he freed

533
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: them after he died, and then in his will it

534
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: was after Martha Washington was to die. Um, then they

535
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: would be officially freed. And you know that's that's great. Whatever,

536
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: he still held slaves until he died. At least Martha

537
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: Washington did something remarkable though. Um. She gave the slaves

538
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: that she inherited from her husband their freedom within a

539
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: year of his death. She didn't wait until she died.

540
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: She was like, you guys, be free, and I mean

541
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: in Washington's favor for sure. He also provided a substantial

542
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: amounts of money for their for them to just start

543
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: a new free life. It wasn't just like your free

544
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: good luck. It was you guys are free, like, here's

545
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: here's a new life for you. Did you go recently? Yeah? Yeah,

546
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: pretty neat it is. It's like really well done. I

547
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: guess Living Museum. Yeah. I went last year with just

548
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: my sister and then went again. Actually, you and I

549
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: probably went within the last like a few weeks of

550
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: each other. It's funny, yeah, because I went with my

551
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: niece and Emily and um highly recommend going to melt Burnon.

552
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: It's and Monicello too. I still haven't been there. That's amazing.

553
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Both of them are just really great spots to go

554
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: check out. It's pretty cool. I mean you can stand

555
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: there and look at the bed where he died. Yeah,

556
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: it's you're like five ft from it. Yeah. I try

557
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: to get in and lay down, and they did. I

558
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: got some. I got smacked on the wrist. Um. All right,

559
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: after this break, we're going to talk a little bit

560
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: about unmarked graves. Chuck. Yeah, I am interested in learning

561
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: the definition of an armarked grave, as per say someone

562
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: named Joe len uh, Well, it means it's a great

563
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,239
Speaker 1: that's not march right. Pretty much, it's almost exactly what

564
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: you think it is. Is if somebody is buried in

565
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: a grave. And this is according from this article from

566
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. According to um Joelene Mason, who's the

567
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: general manager of Pierce Brothers Westwood Village Memorial Park, which

568
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: is where a lot of celebrities are buried in Los Angeles,

569
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: it's really one of the most useless quotes I've ever seen.

570
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: She says, quote, if there's no marker, headstone, or nameplate

571
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: and there's someone in the grave, it qualifies as unmarked.

572
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: She was probably like, yeah, she hung up, just shaking

573
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: her head. Uh, there are many reasons. There's a lot

574
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: of reasons why you might want your grave unmarked. Um man,

575
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: that was so caddy of us. Just then to make

576
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: fun of that lady, well, to make fun of the quote,

577
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Yeah, that's sorry. Sorry everyone. I didn't

578
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: think it was that caddy. I was moved to say something, right, Um,

579
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: Like I said, there's a lot of reasons you might want,

580
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: uh or not want. There's all the reasons you might

581
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: have an unmarked grave. Historically, you might have an unmarked

582
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: grave if you are a really bad person. Um like Himmler.

583
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: Oh his grave isn't mark That makes sense, Yeah, pretty

584
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: bad persons, bad person, good example of a bad person. Hey, thanks,

585
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: you're welcome. Um executed criminals a lot of times have

586
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: unmarked graves a lot of times the show like you know,

587
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: contempt for what they did on Earth, but a lot

588
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: of times too. It's also so it doesn't draw people

589
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: there to you know, go do bad things to face

590
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: the grave in any way, um, family victims or whatever.

591
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: It's also if families. If you die of pauper, you

592
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: will be buried in what's called the potter's field. And

593
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: Oakland Cemetery has a potter's field. Yeah, like one next

594
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: to the theater to the drive in theater. Is there

595
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: a potter's field there? Oh yeah, I know that right

596
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: next to it. But basically it's just a plot of

597
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: unmarked graves and the state still does that. Yeah. The

598
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: one next to uh starlight drive in is um, like

599
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: a lot of bad stuff goes on over there. Apparently

600
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: it's like prostitution and drugs and yeah, um, what else

601
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: could you do? You could scatter the remains of a

602
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: bad person and not even have a grave at all.

603
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: And that's what some of the Nazi war criminals that

604
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: was their fate. Like I commend and Guring were just

605
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: scattered and like, so no one would know where they were.

606
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't around then, but today it would

607
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: seem like if you came up against the Nazis again,

608
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: the best way to dispose of their body would be

609
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 1: something we mentioned in our episode, what are different ways

610
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: to dispose of a body? And remember the auto licens

611
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: one where you turned into a biscus goo that can

612
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: be poured down the drain. That's what you should do

613
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: with Nazis these days. Put it in the toilet and

614
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: flush it. Yes, yes, heads up Nazis. Yeah, but in

615
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: some cities don't they treat waste water for eventual drinking

616
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: water That the process of auto licens renders it um sterile,

617
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: So you can just pour it down the drain. But

618
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: would you want to drink it? Tho? I can't imagine

619
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: the molecules that we drink, the things that we drink

620
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: what they used to be. Yeah, that's still make it

621
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: into our body on a molecular level. I'm sure it

622
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: would be revolting to know. As a matter of fact,

623
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: if anybody out there does know, if you work in

624
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: like wastewater treatment or something, share some stories. Yeah, that'd

625
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: be a good podcast. I don't know if I want

626
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: to know. Do you remember the story of that poor

627
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: girl in Los Angeles who um went missing? She was

628
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: on a trip there by herself for a few days

629
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: from Canada in the last couple of years. Oh, the

630
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: one in the tank. Yeah. They found her in the

631
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: drinking and the hotel water tank on the roof after

632
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: like I think a week or two. Yeah, because people

633
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: said the water tasted funny, yeah, and looked funny. Yeah.

634
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: She was the one that did the strange stuff with

635
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: the elevator, right, Yes, yeah, she was. She was mentally ill.

636
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: That was really sad. Wasn't mental illness or was she

637
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: on drugs? I don't believe she had a history of

638
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: mental illness. Did Yeah she did? Oh she did. Yeah.

639
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: It is sad. I mean it's sad either way. Yeah,

640
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: But at first it's like, oh my gosh, it's the

641
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: creepiest thing I've ever seen, because her behavior was so weird. Yeah.

642
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 1: If you look on line, there's a lot of sixteen

643
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: year olds, they're like stoof that she was possessed by

644
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: a demon, and they actually mean it, chuck, they mean it.

645
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: Come on, sixteen year olds, get tracked together all right,

646
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: And now to close, we're gonna go over some famous

647
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: people with unmarked graves, because sometimes if you're famous, your

648
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: family might want to unmark graves so your grave site

649
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: doesn't become a tourist stop. Um, that's one reason, I guess,

650
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: because you've ever been to like, No, I haven't, but

651
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: I've seen pictures. Yeah. I went, of course, because I

652
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: was just out of college, way into the doors, and

653
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: you didn't. No, I went and looked at it. You

654
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: don't like the doors anymore, there, do you it? Um?

655
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 1: It was a passing fancy, but I don't like dislike

656
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: the doors. But I was like really into him for

657
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: a while, and then I now I'm coming to Morrison

658
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: was not much of a poet. I bought his poetry

659
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: books back then, and I was all into the Lizard King.

660
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: I think it's something that happens when you're twenty. Yeah,

661
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: what's good music. I still like him. Um. I was

662
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: into Pink Floyd for a while too, but I don't

663
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: listen to them much anymore. They have a new album

664
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: coming out, from what I understand, Yeah, I did hear

665
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,959
Speaker 1: that old material that they've is gonna be awesome. Yeah,

666
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: I still love Pink Floyd, but not like I did

667
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: when I was fourteen. Yeah, alright, Mozart, he's in an

668
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: unmarked to him. Um, because even though we see him

669
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: as a big shot, he at the time was not

670
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,439
Speaker 1: in the upper Echelona society. No, you had to be

671
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: pretty high falutin in the eighteenth century in Vienna to

672
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: get a grave marker. Yeah, so he's buried. They now

673
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: have an In the eighteen fifties, they built a monument

674
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: over where they think he was buried. Um. And then

675
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: that was later moved to a space where they just

676
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: had honored various musicians that were buried there. And they

677
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: put up another monument near his original assumed or prison

678
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: grave site at Marks Cemetery St. Mark's m r x UM.

679
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: And it has an angel leaning up against the broken column, which,

680
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: as you remember, indicates someone who has cut down the

681
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: prime of life. And Mozart died at age thirty five

682
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: suddenly of rheumatic fever. The vapors he had the vapors,

683
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: So that that's what I call the Enna's nice ever

684
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: been there? Uh? No, lovely? Uh it is John Wayne.

685
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: He is buried in his family gives his reason for

686
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: his unmarked grave for just not wanting to be uh,

687
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: disrespectful to others that are also buried there, which I

688
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: think is a pretty nice thing. That's kind of a

689
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to say a trend, but a lot

690
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: of celebrities families do that they they're buried in unmarked

691
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: graves either because they have the same thought that you have,

692
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: Like you want to be humble. You can't be much

693
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: more humble than being buried in an mark grave. Yeah,

694
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: I want to be marked at least, so like George C. Scott,

695
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: Frank Zappa, they're both buried in on Mark graves. Roy Orbison.

696
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: Roy Orbison is um because apparently his family never got

697
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: around to putting a headstone on his grave. They were

698
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: planning on moving him and never have, so he's been

699
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 1: laying in on Mark Graves since Yah Bessie Smith famous

700
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: blue singer. She was big in the vaudeville scene in

701
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties and like a lot of the siren

702
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: singers of the day, I had a problem with alcoholism

703
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: and died in a car crash in ninety seven. And

704
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: she didn't have a grave because her husband apparently the

705
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: rumors didn't want to pay for it, and years later

706
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: Janice Joplin was such a fan she had moved to

707
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: pay for and commission a headstone for her um and

708
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: I didn't see if it was ever done. It says

709
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: she died shortly thereafter, but I don't know if that

710
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: project was ever completed. It was okay, it went through

711
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: all right. Mike Tyson did that too. His mother was

712
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: died very poor and I think had an unmarked grave

713
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: or a very small marker. And after he hit it big,

714
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: one of the first things he did was get this huge, gaudy,

715
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: elaborate headstone erected for Belushi has been uh. They've had

716
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: some problems with fans of Belushi's partying at his grave,

717
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: so they moved him from his UH grave and Martha's

718
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: vineyard to a spot that only the family knows. But

719
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: they have two uh cinotaphs, which are empty tombs, one

720
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: at Martha's vineyard, one at his family plot in Chicago

721
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: where you can go visit, but apparently only like his

722
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: family knows where he's truly buried. Now. Um, and you know,

723
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: I hung out in the room where he died a

724
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: couple of times. Yeah, and the in the Belushi Cabana

725
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: at the Chateau Marmott. Oh yeah, I always think he was.

726
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,240
Speaker 1: It was it was Chicago, but that was um Chris Farley,

727
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: who died in exactly the same manner that Belushi did,

728
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: just in Chicago. Yeah, it's a little weird. I mean

729
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: you're sitting there and you're you know, I was having

730
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 1: a good time and having a few drinks, and it's

731
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: like John Belushi died right here where I'm standing, and um, yeah,

732
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 1: bad way to go. What speedball? And then chuck out?

733
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: Got one more? Remember the movie Peter Pan, the Disney

734
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: movie The Cartoon. Yeah, a little boy who voices who

735
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: voiced Peter Pan. He is buried in an unmarked Popper's grave.

736
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: That is sad. Yeah, he was in. His name is

737
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: Bobby Driscoll. He was in not just Peter Pan, but

738
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: also um Treasure Island movie called The Window. And he

739
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: was a child star and after he hit puberty he

740
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: was apparently discarded by Hollywood and hit the skids and

741
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,919
Speaker 1: he actually died. The guy who the kid who voiced

742
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: Peter Pan died at age thirty one in an abandoned

743
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: apartment in New York City. Um, not even of a

744
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: drug overdose, but of a whole bunch of drug overdoses

745
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: that finally led to catastrophic heart failure. Um and his

746
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: mother started looking for him a year after he died

747
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: and found that he died because I guess the police

748
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: printed him. He was just a John Doe until his

749
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: mother started looking for him. But he's still buried in

750
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: an omark grave from what I understand. Yeah, and it's

751
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: not just like, oh, he was famous, and it's so

752
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: sad he died that way because thousands of people die

753
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 1: every day in this country, homeless people that died with

754
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: no family and no one that cares about burying them. Well,

755
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 1: there's also a lot of people who have family, whose

756
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: family don't have enough money to do anything. And I

757
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: have no choice but to allow the state to handle

758
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 1: the funeral. And it is not an elaborate funeral. State

759
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: state run funerals are not elaborate, I'm sure. Unless it's

760
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: ahead of state, then there wizz bangs in salute. I

761
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: got nothing else, I don't either. Go to our website

762
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know dot com and check out twenty

763
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: one remarkable epitaphs. It's pretty good, if I say so myself. Uh,

764
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: you can um read the let's see what is it?

765
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: Ten famous people buried in unmarked graves that articles on

766
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com? And since I said how

767
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, it's time for listener now. I'm

768
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: gonna call this branical illusion, okay. And this is something

769
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 1: that we hear about a lot, and UH as fans

770
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: of radio and podcasting myself. If you've never seen someone

771
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: that you've always heard, it's always jarring to see what

772
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: they look like. And some people still don't even want

773
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: to know what we look like, which you know, I get.

774
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: I don't blame you, man, I've seen Kiris Doll before. Yeah,

775
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: it's just fun to look at the NPR people like

776
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: Lois writes, as I expected to be three years old,

777
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: And Lois writes, this looks exactly like I would have

778
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: thought she did. She looked younger than I thought, Um,

779
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: but not much. All right, Hey, guys, uh, Josh, Chuck

780
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: and Jerry and again Jerry spelt correctly. People are really

781
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: getting with it. Man. I've been an avid listener uh

782
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: to your podcasts and the sister podcasts since two thousand nine.

783
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 1: Never thought I'd have anything interesting enough to write in about.

784
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: But it finally happened, and it was so perception altering,

785
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: so randomly odd. I thought you should know. All these

786
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: years I had an inner podcast movie playing of YouTube

787
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: bantering going through my head. All was good. I could

788
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: see Chuck laughing, I could see Josh studiously explaining things,

789
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: and I stayed in podcast land, never having ventured out

790
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: to see your shows or videos. Yet I would enjoyed

791
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: them in time as well. But what turned my world

792
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: upside down and seemed like a brainical illusion was that

793
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: I finally did see a video of the two of you,

794
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: and Josh's voice was coming out of Chuck's face, and

795
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: Chuck's voice had a beard on it. All this time

796
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: I had thought of each of you was the other person,

797
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: and this is after he had already seen pictures, so

798
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 1: that must be really weird. Um, seeing those voices coming

799
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: on different faces has done my head in. I think

800
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: the culprit is how your pictures are situated on the

801
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: podcast immans, with Chuck on the left and Josh on

802
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: the right. But since Westerners read from left to right

803
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: and the show always starts with Josh and Chuck and

804
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: then Chuck, that's the order of my brain. Put you

805
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: in I now have to fight with my inner podcast

806
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: movie to correct which face the voices are coming from,

807
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: and it causes constant bewilderment. Uh, you guys sent me

808
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: to my dreamland every night with your friendly voices. Thanks

809
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: a lot. Perhaps I would just follow the advice of

810
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: one of those funny T shirts, I reject your reality

811
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: and substitute my own, because no matter how hard I try,

812
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: I always see Josh with a beard and Chuck with

813
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: a buzz cut. You got it wrong, pal, and that

814
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: even though I did have a buzz cut recently. It's

815
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: from Avalon. Thanks a lot of Avalon. We appreciate you writing,

816
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: and we do hear that a lot. So for everybody

817
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: who that's ever happened to. Um, I'm sorry, I guess,

818
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: but not really, because there's something we could do about.

819
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 1: It's your brain. You look like what we look like.

820
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: If you want to share something from your brain with us,

821
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: you can tweet to us at s Y s K podcast.

822
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff

823
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: you Should Know. You can send us an email to

824
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: Stuff Podcasts at how stuff Works dot com, and as always,

825
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: check us out at our home on the web. Stuff

826
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com for more on this and

827
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it How Stuff Works dot

828
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: com