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Speaker 1: Calm your Mind, Change your Life.

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Speaker 2: We don't really have a self. The self is a

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Speaker 2: construction of our minds. There actually is nothing there, and

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Speaker 2: last twenty years, Robert Green. If you're dealing with your

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Speaker 2: own weaknesses and your own emptiness inside, you're going to

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Speaker 2: be drawn to people who fill that up. People's perception

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Speaker 2: of you can almost become how you perceive yourself if

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Speaker 2: you're not careful.

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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, I've got some huge news to share with you.

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Speaker 1: In the last ninety days, seventy nine point four percent

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Speaker 1: of our audience came from viewers and listeners that are

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Speaker 1: not subscribed to this channel. There's research that shows that

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Speaker 1: if you want to create a habit, make it easy

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Speaker 1: to access. By hitting the subscribe button, you're creating a

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Speaker 1: habit of learning how to be happier, healthier, and more healed.

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Speaker 1: This would also mean the absolute world to me and

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Speaker 1: help help us make better, bigger, brighter content for you

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Speaker 1: and the world. Subscribe right now.

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Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast.

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Speaker 1: Jay Sheety Jay Sheety Sly Jay Sheet. Hey everyone, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to on Purpose, the place you come to become

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Speaker 1: a happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is one

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Speaker 1: of your favorites, someone who's been on the show before.

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Speaker 1: You absolutely loved our first episode together, and so I

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Speaker 1: had to have him back. He's also one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite authors, someone that I've been rereading recently, especially when

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Speaker 1: I fell out of love with learning. And I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you about that in a second. Today's guest is Robert Green,

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Speaker 1: the author of the New York Times bestsellers, The forty

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Speaker 1: Eight Laws of Power, The Art of Seduction, The Thirty

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Speaker 1: three Strategies of War, The fiftieth Law Mastery, The Laws

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Speaker 1: of Human Nature, and most recently, of The Daily Laws.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to welcome back to the show, Robert. Robert,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me you, thanks for

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Speaker 2: that great introduction.

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Speaker 1: Of course, grateful to have you back in the sea.

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Speaker 1: And as I was just saying to you offline over Christmas,

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Speaker 1: I spent last year touring. I was on stages. We

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Speaker 1: did nearly forty cities across ninety days. My book had

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Speaker 1: come out. I was really pouring out externally, and whenever

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Speaker 1: that happens to me, I always kind of after that

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Speaker 1: get a feeling of I need to grow again, I

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Speaker 1: need to learn again, I need to nourish myself. And

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Speaker 1: I really believe that last Christmas, The Daily Laws of

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Speaker 1: Power became my daily read and I have recommended it

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Speaker 1: to so many people. My wife started reading it, my

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Speaker 1: closest friends have started reading it, and it was just

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Speaker 1: such a great book for anyone who's either stuck with reading,

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Speaker 1: someone who's kind of like not sure what to read,

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Speaker 1: someone who's trying to figure out their direction in life.

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Speaker 1: The Daily Laws of Power is a great starting place.

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Speaker 2: I'd say, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: I've always been a fan of your books, and you

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Speaker 1: send me this beautiful limited edition version which I'm getting

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Speaker 1: to show off on the show by the forty eight Laws.

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Speaker 1: What a phenomenal book. So thank you for being such

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Speaker 1: a big part of my learning journey.

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Speaker 2: For having me. You're a rock star. But what a

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Speaker 2: tour You've been on. A tour like that that sounds

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Speaker 2: like fun.

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Speaker 1: It was fun. It was fun. We went to Sydney

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Speaker 1: and Melbourne and Brisbane, and we went all over India.

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Speaker 1: I went to Dubai, I went to Whoa Paris, Berlin.

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Speaker 1: It was phenomenal. It was amazing.

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Speaker 2: But you could see yourself more of an extrovert or

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Speaker 2: an introvert.

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Speaker 1: So that's a great question, and I'm going to let

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Speaker 1: you define the two for me, because you'll probably have

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Speaker 1: some wisdom to share with us. I energize alone, but

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Speaker 1: I enjoy connecting with small groups of specific people. So

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Speaker 1: I assume I'm overall and introut. But nine nine percent

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Speaker 1: of people would say, Jay, you're an extrovert. But if

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Speaker 1: I was in a big group of people, I would

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Speaker 1: find the one person who I share values with to

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Speaker 1: have a deep conversation. I wouldn't be milling around into

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Speaker 1: do using myself to everyone. So if that makes any.

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Speaker 2: Sense, But do you need to be alone?

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Speaker 1: Do you feel I crave alone time A lot? Yes,

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Speaker 1: a lot.

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Speaker 2: So you're a mix.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you're under that. Yeah, yeah, that's what it's called. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: But I have so many questions for You're over that

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Speaker 1: I got into and I'm really coming to you with

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Speaker 1: questions that I know a lot of my community and

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Speaker 1: audience repeatedly ask and I think your specifically position to

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Speaker 1: answer a lot of these. The first one I have

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Speaker 1: is one of the biggest things I get asked is Jay,

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Speaker 1: how do I deal with negative people? How do I

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Speaker 1: deal with negative people in my family? How do I

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Speaker 1: deal with negative people in my friends circle? How do

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Speaker 1: I deal with negative people at work? In close intimate circles.

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Speaker 1: I feel a lot of people feel they're dealing with negativity.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, it all depends on the details, the

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Speaker 2: kind of negative person you're dealing with. There are several

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Speaker 2: kind of ways of looking at it's some kind of micrones,

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Speaker 2: some kind of much larger. The larger picture is, we

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Speaker 2: all have negative traits, we all have dark traits, right,

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Speaker 2: and so you kind of if you have this idea

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Speaker 2: that it's just humans, human beings are like this. It's

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Speaker 2: like a flower or a rock or a tree. It

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Speaker 2: has its nature. You know, I just accept it. I

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Speaker 2: accept people for who they are and I deal with

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Speaker 2: them on that level. I don't judge them, et cetera. Now,

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Speaker 2: of course, when you're dealing with negative people, it can

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Speaker 2: be very difficult because negative people like to stir up

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Speaker 2: a lot of drama around you, around them, and that's

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Speaker 2: the kind of power that they get. They like the

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Speaker 2: attention that they get from making people upset, from pulling

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Speaker 2: on your emotions. Right, So you have to have you

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Speaker 2: have to have this kind of larger look at them

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Speaker 2: where it's not about me, right, They're dealing with their

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Speaker 2: own issues, their own problems. There's a history behind it.

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Speaker 2: It could be their parents, it could be their family,

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Speaker 2: it could be their spouse, their children, whatever, and they're

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Speaker 2: venting it on me in this particular moment. But it's

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Speaker 2: not personal. I tell people, don't take everything so personally, right,

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Speaker 2: But then you know, so there's all these different levels

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Speaker 2: and it all really depends on the specifics because a

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Speaker 2: lot of people come to me for advice, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of times you're enmeshed with a negative person, like

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Speaker 2: it's your boss, it's your spouse, et cetera, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: And it's very difficult to do what I'm talking about, right,

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Speaker 2: And so you have to try and get a little

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Speaker 2: bit of distance from them. You have to be able

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Speaker 2: to say to yourself, they're not me, right, they have

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Speaker 2: their own problems. I'm separate from them. The sense of

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Speaker 2: being separate from them is very liberating, right. So they

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Speaker 2: have issues and they're trying to drag me into it,

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Speaker 2: and they're trying to drag me down. But them, I

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Speaker 2: have my own life and I'm not going to get involved.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you need to have empathy, but sometimes you need

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Speaker 2: to shut that off. And so the best thing in life, though,

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Speaker 2: is That's why I say, there's just so many angles

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Speaker 2: to approach this from is if they're like a deep narcissist,

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Speaker 2: and that's probably the most common type of negative person

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Speaker 2: you deal with in the world today and we all

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Speaker 2: have come across this. The power that you have is

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Speaker 2: to recognize people like that before you get involved with them,

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Speaker 2: and to not get involved with them, right, And so

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Speaker 2: they have signs things that you can pick up in advance.

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Speaker 2: People who are toxic. I don't know if we're toxic

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Speaker 2: and negative are the same here. They don't show it immediately.

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Speaker 2: They're good at deceiving you. They can be very charming,

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Speaker 2: they can be very dramatic. They pull you in with

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Speaker 2: their great stories they have. Sometimes they're even charismatic. A

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Speaker 2: lot of important CEOs in the world, people like Elon Musk,

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Speaker 2: are raging narcissists. They appear very exciting and you want

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Speaker 2: to get to know them, but you have to recognize

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Speaker 2: that these are people that are probably going to use you. Right.

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Speaker 2: They don't see you as an individual, and the people

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Speaker 2: you associate with were very as humans, we're very open

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Speaker 2: to the emotions of other people, right, And so the

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Speaker 2: people you associate with have a huge role on who

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Speaker 2: you are and the energy you have, you know, your

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Speaker 2: daily life, et cetera, et cetera, And so you have

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Speaker 2: to be very very careful who you let into your life,

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Speaker 2: right and God, Jay, I don't know, there's so many

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Speaker 2: different angles to approach it from. I tell people that

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Speaker 2: don't judge people as far as who you're going to

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Speaker 2: let into your life. Don't be deceived by the appearances.

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Speaker 2: Don't judge people based on their intelligence, on their charm,

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Speaker 2: on whether they're good or bad, et c. Judge them

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Speaker 2: on their character, whether they have a weak or a

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Speaker 2: strong character.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the signals the signs we can

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Speaker 1: look out for, because I think what you just said

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Speaker 1: is so true that we naturally get attracted to people's appearance, intelligence, charisma,

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Speaker 1: access because we haven't really been trained to view character.

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Speaker 1: So I remember when I lived in the monastery, the

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Speaker 1: highest quality or character trait that was considered the epitome

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Speaker 1: of internal emotional evolution was humility. And so when you

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Speaker 1: met someone who is humble, and you met someone who

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Speaker 1: didn't have false ego, they were considered a high character

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Speaker 1: and we were trained in order to understand that. But

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Speaker 1: in the modern world, that isn't how the material world works.

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Speaker 1: We're almost attracted to people who can come off arrogant

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Speaker 1: and show boats. And even if we sense we don't

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Speaker 1: like that, we still believe that person has power. And

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Speaker 1: so what are things that we have to look out for?

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Speaker 2: Well, Also, there are people who appear to be humble,

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Speaker 2: but they're not really humble. There's a lot of people

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Speaker 2: now who feign humility because it's seen as a positive trait.

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Speaker 2: So humans are born actors and you have to kind

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Speaker 2: of look behind the mask. So I tell people I

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Speaker 2: view it as strong or weak character. A strong character

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Speaker 2: is a person who can take criticism right, who can

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Speaker 2: work with other people right, who can deal with stressful situations,

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Speaker 2: who can handle responsibility, and if there's something goes wrong,

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Speaker 2: they take I am to blame for They don't look

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Speaker 2: at other people. There's somebody who can rely on you

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Speaker 2: lean on them, and there's something there to lean on.

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Speaker 2: You can rely on them in situations. A weak character

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Speaker 2: is somebody who cannot take criticism. That is probably the

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Speaker 2: number one characteristic. The worst trait I think in people,

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Speaker 2: and a definite trait of negativity is somebody who can't

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Speaker 2: take any kind of criticism right. They're so defensive, So

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Speaker 2: that means they can get away with anything, They can

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Speaker 2: say anything they want, and there's just like a wall

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Speaker 2: of shell around them. Right. So, the ability in a

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Speaker 2: work situation, in a relationship to take criticism and not

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Speaker 2: be able to use it constructively is an incredibly useful

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Speaker 2: and powerful trait to me that reveals strong character. How

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Speaker 2: people handle stress is a really good sign of their character.

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Speaker 2: So in a work situation, people are good at faking

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Speaker 2: it and pretending that they're very strong. But when it

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Speaker 2: gets really stressful and there's a lot of pressure on it,

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Speaker 2: the mask falls off and they reveal that they can't

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Speaker 2: handle it. They're too weak. They're reacting to everything, they

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Speaker 2: can't get out of the moment. They're so impatient, you know,

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Speaker 2: and fragile. And so the ability to handle stress shows

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Speaker 2: that somebody has something strong inside of them, right. How

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Speaker 2: they handle power, Right, So, when people are kind of

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Speaker 2: climbing up the ladder in a group or in a

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Speaker 2: job they generally were, they generally try and pretend like

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Speaker 2: they're they're work with the group. But once they have power,

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Speaker 2: that all falls off and they can become abusive and

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Speaker 2: they feel like they can get away with any things

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Speaker 2: that they couldn't get away with before, they treat people

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Speaker 2: below them miserably, et cetera. So when people have power,

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Speaker 2: how do they handle it? Are they responsible? Do they

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Speaker 2: suddenly become somebody different or do they maintain the character

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Speaker 2: that they had beforehand? Right? What kind of partners do

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Speaker 2: they choose? Do they choose a spouse, a husband, a girlfriend,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, somebody that they can push around, somebody that's

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Speaker 2: inferior to them so that they can feel better about themselves.

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Speaker 2: How do they look when they're playing like a game,

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Speaker 2: or they're in outdoor activities or something that has nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with work. Are they so competitive they have

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Speaker 2: to win it everything, even when it's like outside of

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Speaker 2: that kind of environment. You know, these are kind of

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Speaker 2: traits that help me sort of judge a person's character.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and these are often the things that we either

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Speaker 1: ignore or we actually let them kind of fall by

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Speaker 1: the wayside or don't pay enough attention to them because

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Speaker 1: we think, oh, no, but they're so smart and they're

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Speaker 1: so this, And I wonder how much of guys also, like,

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Speaker 1: what does that say about us that we often get

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Speaker 1: attracted to the wrong things within people? What does that

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Speaker 1: say about us? Does that make us a stronger weak character?

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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Jay Shatty and I'm throwed to announce

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Speaker 1: my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can

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Speaker 1: me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations

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Speaker 1: with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness

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Speaker 2: I know that I tend to be I tend to

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Speaker 2: get involved with narcissistic people. It's a weakness of mine, right,

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Speaker 2: And maybe it's because of my upbringing, and maybe it's

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Speaker 2: because I feel a kind of emptiness inside of me,

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Speaker 2: and that their charm and the attention that they tend

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Speaker 2: to they pretend to give you is kind of enchanting

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Speaker 2: or casts a spell on you and it draws you in. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so if you're dealing with your own weaknesses and your

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Speaker 2: own emptiness inside, you're going to be drawn to people

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Speaker 2: who fill that fill that up. Are you going to

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Speaker 2: be drawn to causes and charismatic leaders that pretend to

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Speaker 2: give you a purpose in your life because you don't

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Speaker 2: have a purpose, but have it for you kind of things.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of it has to do, yeah, with ourselves,

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Speaker 2: and we're attracted to We're even attracted to negative people.

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Speaker 2: And there are people who have patterns in their life

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Speaker 2: where they deliberately choose the worst kind of person for them,

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Speaker 2: right and over and over and over again, because at

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Speaker 2: least that makes them feel alive. At least the pain

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Speaker 2: of it, you know, gives them a sense of something,

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Speaker 2: have something dramatic, and so they deliberately bring on those

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Speaker 2: kind of that kind of pain. So it's complicated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, when you said that, often we feel an

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Speaker 1: emptiness inside and you were saying maybe because if you

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Speaker 1: are bringing you felt that emptiness inside as well, have

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Speaker 1: you tried to fill that emptiness or is there another solution?

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Speaker 2: Well, to me, it's why I wrote the book Mastery.

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Speaker 2: The way I fill my emptiness and how I've done

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Speaker 2: it since I was a kid is through my work

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Speaker 2: and through my ideas and my thinking, and how I'm

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Speaker 2: constantly looking for new thoughts and new ways of looking

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Speaker 2: at the world. So I find that if I don't,

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Speaker 2: if I didn't have my work as kind of some

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Speaker 2: people think of work as something that you just have

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Speaker 2: to do, right, it's just a way to get money.

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Speaker 2: But for me, it's a way to feel like I'm

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Speaker 2: a human being, that I am who I am. I

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Speaker 2: was destined to write these books, and it gives me

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Speaker 2: every day I wake up and I know this is

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Speaker 2: what I need to accomplish, et cetera, et cetera. And

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Speaker 2: so that's why I read so many books. That's why

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Speaker 2: I'm so intrigued by ideas. That's why I'm writing a

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Speaker 2: book right now about a subject that very much captivates

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Speaker 2: me because it does feel that inner kind of emptiness.

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Speaker 2: But on the other hand, as someone who meditates and

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Speaker 2: practices a form of zen meditation, there is a purpose

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Speaker 2: to emptiness right there. It's not necessarily good to be

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Speaker 2: always having to fill things up in your brain like

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Speaker 2: you're just pouring food into your system. You know, there

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Speaker 2: is something actually kind of intrinsically beautiful about the idea

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Speaker 2: that there that there is emptiness, that that I don't

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Speaker 2: really have a self, that there is actually not that

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Speaker 2: there is no such thing as a mind. Actually, it's

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Speaker 2: it's an illusion that we create, right, It's something that's

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Speaker 2: it's something through words that we have. So that sense

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Speaker 2: of emptiness that you know, I'm I don't have an ego,

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Speaker 2: or that I'm confronting the world, that I'm just hearing

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Speaker 2: and seeing things as they are, it is actually a

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Speaker 2: beautiful thing. So you have to kind of have to

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Speaker 2: kind of struggle against this idea of always having to

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Speaker 2: fill myself up.

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Speaker 1: What's something you're saying you like observing humans and humanity.

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Speaker 1: What's something that you've observed about humans over time that

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Speaker 1: surprised you.

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Speaker 2: Well, nothing really surprises me because I read a lot

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Speaker 2: of history and I see that things just keep repeating

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Speaker 2: over and over and over again. I know though, since

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Speaker 2: I had my stroke, and since I've physically weak and

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Speaker 2: there are things I can't do anymore, I've actually noticed

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Speaker 2: that people respond to me differently, and it's actually very positive.

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Speaker 2: So sometimes I can be very negative about people. That's

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Speaker 2: kind of my inclination. That's how my mind tends to work,

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Speaker 2: which is not necessarily a good thing. We all have

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Speaker 2: these attitudes that make us look at the world a

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Speaker 2: certain way. I tend to have a negative bent towards

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Speaker 2: human nature. But I must say people have been very

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Speaker 2: very kind to me since I've had my stroke, and

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Speaker 2: it's sad that you have to have an accident like

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Speaker 2: that to be able to perceive it. But I've seen

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Speaker 2: another side where everyone wants to help me. They kind

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Speaker 2: of empathize with the fact that I'm a little bit

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Speaker 2: helpless in these situations. And it's also made me kind

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Speaker 2: of feel differently about other people who have disabilities with

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Speaker 2: things that they can help in their lives. But the

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Speaker 2: sense of I'm a little bit helpless and people are

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Speaker 2: really eager to try and help me actually is something

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Speaker 2: that has kind of surprised me in a way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I liked what you said there that it's sad

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Speaker 1: that someone has to go through something for us to

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Speaker 1: then show that sides of ourselves, which means that it's

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Speaker 1: always there. It means that it exists inherently within us.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's because why do you think that is?

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that is that if it's inherently there,

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Speaker 1: we don't display it at all times to all people.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, we're all born with the

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Speaker 2: capacity for empathy. It's something that It interests me a

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Speaker 2: lot because the feeling that I'm connecting very deeply to

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Speaker 2: another person, let's say my wife, et cetera, is a

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Speaker 2: very overpowering emotion. It gets me out of myself and

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing the world through her eyes as opposed to

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Speaker 2: me always projecting myself onto her. It's a very moving experience.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes you go to a movie and you find

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Speaker 2: yourself getting inside the characters. You're getting outside of yourself

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Speaker 2: and you're feeling this empathy for them, you're identifying with them.

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Speaker 2: These are all very powerful emotions, right, and we all

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Speaker 2: have the capacity for that, But the world we live

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Speaker 2: in is actually a machinery to deaden those emotions, that

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Speaker 2: sense of empathy. Right. It's just puts so much emphasis

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Speaker 2: on ourselves, on our individuality, on who we are, Our needs,

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Speaker 2: you know, are the attention that we want, that we deserve.

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Speaker 2: We're so focused on ourselves that that natural feeling of

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Speaker 2: wanting to get inside of another person. And you know,

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Speaker 2: it's very strange, Jay, because if you think about it,

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Speaker 2: our inner lives are actually quite boring, the same thoughts

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Speaker 2: repeat over and over and over again, the same emotions,

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Speaker 2: the same preoccupations, the same anxieties and other people. They're

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Speaker 2: so different. They have their own worlds, right, They're like,

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Speaker 2: it's like traveling to another country. So we should actually

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Speaker 2: be much more oriented towards other people. We should have

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Speaker 2: a natural interest in their world because it takes us

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Speaker 2: out of ourselves. It's like therapy. But it's been deadened

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Speaker 2: by so many things in our world, by social media,

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Speaker 2: by the pressures we're under, by just modern lifestyle, and

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Speaker 2: so that empathetic muscle that everybody has is kind of atrophying.

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Speaker 2: And yet there'll be moments where it kind of sparks

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Speaker 2: to life and you feel like, God, I want that.

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Speaker 2: I want more of that in my life, more of

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Speaker 2: that in my world. How do I get it?

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Speaker 1: What would you say is you're most repeated thor on

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Speaker 1: a daily basis.

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Speaker 2: Like what do I need to do today? What's on

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Speaker 2: my schedule? You know? So, like I'm meditating in the

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Speaker 2: morning and I'm trying to empty my mind and I'm

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Speaker 2: going into what's known as a co aan, right, and

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Speaker 2: then these thoughts keep bubbling up and they're so annoying,

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Speaker 2: and it makes you aware of the machinery of your

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Speaker 2: own mind. And so to answer your question, it's always like, oh,

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Speaker 2: did you remember that you have to call this person

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Speaker 2: this afternoon? Did you remember you have to change that reservation?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember that you have to do this? At

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Speaker 2: the scheduling things so unimportant, so trivial, Where I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to open my mind up to something vast and important,

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Speaker 2: it's little things like scheduling and stuff like that. Then

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Speaker 2: there will be other thoughts that we repeat, you know,

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Speaker 2: like if I saw a movie from images will keep

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Speaker 2: popping up from that and such. It makes you aware

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Speaker 2: that you're not in control of your own mind. Right.

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Speaker 1: How have you found over time with meditation and other practices,

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Speaker 1: what have you used in order to start quietening, emptying,

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Speaker 1: whatever the right word is for you releasing those thoughts

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Speaker 1: so that you can connect with vastness, be creative or

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Speaker 1: self express.

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Speaker 2: Wow, it's not easy, and it's an ongoing process, and

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Speaker 2: I could say I'm maybe ten percent of the way

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Speaker 2: where I'd like to be. But first of all, you

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Speaker 2: recognize you go through a thing where a thought pops

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Speaker 2: up and it's like why am I thinking about that?

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Speaker 2: I don't like it. You realize that it's just a thought,

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Speaker 2: and what is a thought? Now? I know We're getting

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Speaker 2: really weird and metaphysical here it. But it's not real.

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Speaker 2: It's a phantom, right, it has no reality. Reality is

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Speaker 2: your body, the present moment, the birds outside the sky

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Speaker 2: where you are sitting, the fact that you're alive, that

430
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: your blood is pumping. These are real. But that thought

431
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: in your mind is a shadow. It's a phantom. It

432
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: doesn't exist. It has no reality. And so I go

433
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: through this process where don't engage with it, and it's

434
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: really weird because then my mind plays tricks on me

435
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 2: and it pulls up a thought that's definitely going to

436
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 2: engage me, right because it wants that. It's like a

437
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 2: sugar rush, and so I go, okay, no, I'm not

438
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: going to engage with it. And it made me realize

439
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 2: as I went through that process that this is what

440
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 2: social media is based on. Social media has mirrored the

441
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 2: human brain on a large scale. We have thoughts that

442
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 2: are designed to grab our emotions and make us think

443
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 2: about them repetitively, over and over again, compulsively. Right, And

444
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 2: there's probably a purpose behind that, but social media is

445
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 2: actually a genius at that. It picking out putting up

446
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,959
Speaker 2: things up there. They're going to engage our emotions, so

447
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: we have to pay attention. So I always try, and

448
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 2: every time that happens, I withdraw and I say, it's

449
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: just a thought, it's not real, it's not who I am.

450
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 2: This is a very important part of meditation. Your thoughts

451
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: are not who you are. They're a separate part of yourself.

452
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: You are something different from your own thoughts. I don't

453
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 2: know if that means anything to you.

454
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: It does, it does definitely. And while we are not

455
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: our thoughts and we are not our mind, our thoughts

456
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: become our reality. We find that a repetitive thought turns

457
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: into a habit, that turns into a pattern, that turns

458
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: into an action, becomes our reality. For example, I am

459
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: an unorganized, lazy individual usually translates into oh I forgot

460
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: to send that it didn't happen, because now it's a

461
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: belief that's built up. And so it's so fascinating that

462
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: something that's so so not real becomes so real. And

463
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: I've been really into seeing how thought editing is so

464
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: useful as an activity and an exercise, because I've sound

465
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: so many of my thoughts become my beliefs that become

466
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: my life. And I think a lot of people don't

467
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: realize because they don't realize that their thoughts are like

468
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: clothes that you can change. We do believe that our

469
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: thoughts are real and our reality and whatever we're hearing

470
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: in our head is exactly what is, and we don't

471
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: realize that. Oh it's like looking in your wardrobe and saying,

472
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: I don't like the color green anymore. I'm going to

473
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: change it for blue. It's as simple as that.

474
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: Well, there was something I read recently in one of

475
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: the Buddhist books I like to read, that said our

476
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: minds are basically topsy turvy. They're upside down. So the

477
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: reality is we don't really I don't want to get

478
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: too deep into this, but we don't really have a self.

479
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 2: The self is a construction of our minds. There actually

480
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: is nothing there, and that kind of emptiness, like egolessness

481
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 2: is Enlightenment is a beautiful feeling and maybe in your

482
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: life you've touched upon it briefly. I know I've touched

483
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 2: upon it briefly. It's not the reality I have every day,

484
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 2: but that's the real that's real, and what's not real

485
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 2: are the thoughts. But everything is turned upside down in

486
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: our worlds, and so these delusionary thoughts of about people,

487
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: about who I am, about my habits, et cetera. They

488
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: become our reality when it's exactly the opposite, right, you

489
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: have to be able to be aware of that. And

490
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: so you know, meditation is all about being aware of

491
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: is becoming aware of these things because we walk around

492
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: like automatons. You know, I'm very into this writer named Gerjeff.

493
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever heard of Gerjeff. He

494
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: was this He's basically from Armenia. He was in the

495
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: beginning of the twentieth century. He was this man who

496
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: was very interested in mysticism, and he traveled throughout Asia

497
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 2: trying to find the essence of all the different esoteric philosophies,

498
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: and he created his own philosophy and it's very interesting,

499
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: very exciting stuff. He wrote a book called In Search

500
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: of the Miraculous that I highly recommend people, and it's

501
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: not wooh wo stuff. He was a very very practical man.

502
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: He puts it in very practical terms. But his idea

503
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: is that we walk around asleep. We're on automatic pilot constantly.

504
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: We're not really aware that we're breathing, that we're existing,

505
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: We're not aware where our thoughts come from. We're not

506
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 2: aware of how our body moves, et cetera, et cetera,

507
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: et cetera. And so it's a process of slowly becoming

508
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: aware of these kinds of things that is really kind

509
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: of I've been doing this fourteen fifteen years now, really

510
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: really kind of changed the course of my life.

511
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: I have to say, Yeah, I love that, and I

512
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: can't wait to read that book now. And I couldn't

513
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: agree more. I feel we're so disconnected from our mind

514
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: and body that we constantly believe that someone outside of

515
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: ourself has the answer for how we feel. And while

516
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: that may be true when you're seeing a doctor or

517
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: a dentist or something of that professional nature, we don't

518
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: really know how our body's been feeling for weeks or

519
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: months until it crashes, and then we've realized that we

520
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: haven't paid enough attention to X or yoz or a

521
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: relationship in the same way has to end in order

522
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: for us to realize that he had lost investment and

523
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: energy or whatever it may be. And we're so far

524
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: away from the self, or at least this version of

525
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: the self, that yeah, we're not really aware. I love

526
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: what you just said. About the idea of how conscious

527
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: are we of the fact that we're breathing, we're here,

528
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: we're present, we're together, versus how much are we living

529
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: up here? Yeah, and it's really interesting, isn't it, Because

530
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: there's almost two realities that we're always dealing and if

531
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: we're getting too heavy, I'm happy to move away from it.

532
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: But it's almost like I've been thinking a lot about how,

533
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,479
Speaker 1: in one sense what's out here is real and in

534
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: one sense what here is in and at the same time,

535
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: actually what's going on here is the real because it

536
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: defines how I interact with everything else, and it can

537
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: help me be a better filter, a bit of a

538
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: chooser selector of the people I'm around and the places

539
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: I visit.

540
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: So you say you have to kind of use the

541
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: mind to be able to become president. It's a process.

542
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: I would say, I'm alluding to that in discovery, not

543
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: in pushing it. If that makes sense.

544
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense to me. I agree with

545
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: that definitely.

546
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've been reflecting a lot recently about how most

547
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: of what's happening is in the invisible world, and.

548
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: That that's very interesting. Tell me more about that.

549
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: So I've just been. I was thinking that in one sense,

550
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: you have reality externally the visible world, but how I

551
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: make sense of that visible world is all in the

552
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: invisible space, and ultimately, how I make sense of it

553
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: is the reality that I experience regardless of what's happening

554
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: around me, Which is why we realize that people who well,

555
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: we all are telling ourselves stories and narratives all day long.

556
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: But how we're processing what we're experiencing is our reality

557
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: as opposed to the event or what someone said or

558
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: social media, as you gave an example, like I can

559
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: either sit here and say like, I know that when

560
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: I wake up in the morning and I start scrolling

561
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: on social media, my mind is now moving ten times

562
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: one hundred times faster than if I don't do that.

563
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: And I know that brushing my teeth and showering is

564
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: a much more peaceful process if I haven't looked at

565
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: my phone then if I do. And so that choice

566
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: is being made in the invisible world, and the visible

567
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: world is simply something I'm interacting with and taking from

568
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: or being affected by it.

569
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: Well, so we mostly live in things that are invisible. Yes, right,

570
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: symbols et cetera. Yes, language is a symbol it's not reality.

571
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: And so things like government and social behavior, they are

572
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: rules and codes that we abide by, but they're not visible.

573
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: They're invisible, right, Yeah, definitely, and we're not aware of that.

574
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: And so we're trying to raise our awareness of the

575
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: invisible world. I'm always trying to raise my awareness of

576
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: why do I process this way? Where does this come from?

577
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: Where's this idea taking root?

578
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: That's a very yeah, it's a very interesting process to

579
00:33:59,520 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: go through.

580
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: It's hard, it's yeah, it's not clear. It's not like

581
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: I here's the step by step process. It's just something

582
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: I've been engaging with a lot.

583
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I like to try and go through a

584
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: thing where I question all of my beliefs and things

585
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: of why, where does that come from? Why do I

586
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: believe that? Why has that become something that's so hardened

587
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 2: into my brain? I believe that about myself and who

588
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 2: I am about other people. I continually try to challenge

589
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: it and look at what might be the source of it,

590
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: and then maybe say it could be the opposite, right,

591
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 2: and it actually it can lead to a lot of

592
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 2: problems because it's like my mind is always swimming and

593
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 2: I never really think anything is certain I'm always you know,

594
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: seeing the opposite side of it, but I think it's

595
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: in the end, it's a very healthy process.

596
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: How do you I love where we're going because it

597
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: kind of comes back to your same point early, sorry,

598
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: your earlier point about how someone of strong character knows

599
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: how to take criticism, which means they know how to

600
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: deal with the opposite of what they think, call feel.

601
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: And so this idea that you're sharing now that it's

602
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: healthy to be able to question, to evaluate, to assess

603
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 1: our beliefs and values. But like you said, it's one

604
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: of the hardest things to do because you get into

605
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: a space of uncertainty, you question your identity, you lose

606
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: a sense of direction.

607
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 2: How do we.

608
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: Question ourselves without losing ourselves and actually realize that that

609
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: is the process of discovering and building ourselves?

610
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 2: You know, like, who really are you? In the end?

611
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 2: You know what constitutes you? The essence of you? What

612
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: were you meant to accomplish in this world? Right? Your

613
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: sense of purpose? You know, to use the title of

614
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: your show, What is it that makes you an individual?

615
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: Makes you unique? That you alone are meant to accomplish

616
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 2: in life? Well, it's not given. We don't know it,

617
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: And a lot of people really really struggle with trying

618
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: to figure that out, right, because they've been programmed by

619
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: their parents, by their siblings, by the culture, by their

620
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: teachers to say, this is who you are, this is

621
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: what you should believe in, this is what you were

622
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: meant to accomplish in life, this is what's cool and

623
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 2: what's not cool, okay, And so you have to question yourself.

624
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: You have to say, is this really who I am?

625
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 2: Am I really interested in this subject? Am I really

626
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: interested in this kind of person and getting in a

627
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: relationship with this kind of person? And so question yourself

628
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: on that level, you're getting at a deeper and deeper

629
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: core of maybe who you are. At essence, you're cutting

630
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: away all of the social stuff that's been foisted upon

631
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 2: you that it has nothing to do with you, Right,

632
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: So in some ways you're kind of a mystery to

633
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: yourself and you're sort of trying to solve that puzzle,

634
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 2: and you have to ask these questions, is this something

635
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 2: I'm actually really interested in? Is this an intrinsically important

636
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: thing to me? Or is it something that's in the

637
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: culture or something that other people have told me? And

638
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 2: questioning that over and over and over again. Is not

639
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 2: to lead you into this abyss where there's nothing real.

640
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 2: It's to get you closer to who you are, to

641
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: what really matters, to what that essence of you is,

642
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: to what you were meant to accomplish in life. And

643
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 2: once you reach that that inner kind of gold, then

644
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 2: you have a degree of certainty. So I know, I

645
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: knew from a very young age that I wanted to

646
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 2: be a writer. Right, I had to struggle to figure

647
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: out what kind of writing I wanted. But knowing that

648
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 2: that's who I am, probably at the age of eight,

649
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: it allowed me to go I'm not interested in that.

650
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that. This isn't important. Why

651
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 2: am I following this career path? Why am I wasting

652
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: my time here? And then, so, knowing that kind of core,

653
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: you don't have to keep questioning yourself. So I'm never

654
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 2: going to question myself. Why are you a writer? Why

655
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 2: are you writing books? You should have been a pop star.

656
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: I should have been a rock singer. You should have

657
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 2: written poetry, you should been a lawyer. No, I'll never go

658
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: there because I have that firm ground beneath me, and

659
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: that's what your questioning is supposed to lead to get

660
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 2: to the essence of who you are, and once you're there,

661
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 2: you have a degree of certainty in your life.

662
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does, It does. And I feel like a

663
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: big challenge something that I've been thinking a lot about

664
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: lately is a big challenge. Of where that comes from

665
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: is because we care so much about what people think,

666
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: and we're scared of being an unsuccessful version of ourselves

667
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: because we'd rather be a successful version of what someone

668
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: else wants us to be.

669
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

670
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so we're scared of being an unsuccessful writer

671
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: if we could be a successful accountant. We're scared of

672
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: being an unsuccessful artist because we'd rather be a successful

673
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: tech person whatever else it may be. Fill in your blank.

674
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: And because what we think people think of us has

675
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: such a stronghold on us that we can't pivot to

676
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 1: our passions, we can't maneuver to our purpose, we can't

677
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: accept that maybe I'm not what this person wants me

678
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: to be. And I've been spending a lot of time

679
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: in this to try and figure out and I'll and

680
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: we'll let's dive into it from different perspectives. But I

681
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: guess how much, Robert, do you care what people think

682
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: of you, and how have you made sense of that

683
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: over your time as someone who obviously writes that a

684
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: lot of people enjoy your reading. People may disagree with you,

685
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: they may agree with you. People, as you said, debate, discuss,

686
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: But how have you made sense of that? And what's

687
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: been your process of dealing with how you think people

688
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: think about you.

689
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: This is how people think about me who know me personally,

690
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: and it is how people think about me in the

691
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: social realm who don't know me personally and who have

692
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 2: an idea of who I am just often very different

693
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: from the reality. But naturally, as a human being, I

694
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: care that people understand that I'm a certain way, that

695
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 2: I have a certain character, that I actually love jokes

696
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 2: and silly bathroom humor, and that you know I like

697
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 2: stupid movies, and that I'm not always you know, reading

698
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 2: heavy philosophy. You know, my wife can tell you all

699
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: about this childish side of my personality. So you know,

700
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: it's always been important to me to feel kind of

701
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: authentic and sincere, and I've always hated and it's probably

702
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: why I wrote the forty eight Laws of Power. I

703
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,439
Speaker 2: hate people who are pretending to be something that they're

704
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 2: not deeply, deeply wounds me. And I don't know why.

705
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: I don't know why it's been like that because I

706
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: was a child. Maybe I suspected that in my parents,

707
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: the kind of falseness that upsets me deeply. And so

708
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: I wrote the forty eight Laws of Power because I

709
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 2: felt people are such hypocrites. They pretend that they're not

710
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 2: interested in power, but that's all they're interested in, right.

711
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,919
Speaker 2: They wear this front, Oh, I just want to help people.

712
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 2: I just want to make movies and culture, and arn't

713
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 2: know you're interested in power. So it's always been deeply

714
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 2: important to me to kind of reveal what's really going

715
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: on in someone and to sort of feel that way

716
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: about myself. So when I don't feel like I'm myself,

717
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 2: when I feel like I'm faking it, and sometimes to

718
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: be honest with you, Jay, being a kind of quote

719
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 2: unquote self help, gurup, it feels false. It doesn't feel

720
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 2: like who I am. I feel like a bit of

721
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 2: an impostor. It's not really what I wanted to be.

722
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: I just wanted to write books. I love ideas, I

723
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 2: love thoughts, I love expanding my consciousness. Right, So the

724
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: feeling that I'm not being who I am, and that

725
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 2: other people are kind of glomming onto that is upsetting

726
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 2: to me. I don't know if I'm answering your.

727
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's I mean, that's resonating so deeply with me.

728
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting, isn't it How your self

729
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: perception is so different from people's projection onto you, And

730
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: so I can identify with that. I do what I

731
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: do because I'm just sharing what I love. So I

732
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: love meditation, I love wisdom books, I love traditions, I

733
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: love ancient wisdom and modern science and seeing the parallels

734
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: between the two, and I just love talking about that

735
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: and sharing that. And I don't think I've ever thought

736
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: of myself as a guru or a guide or a

737
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: or that kind of individual. But we in society, if

738
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: someone shares or teaches or gives insight or advice, we

739
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: box them or bucket them as that's the same as you.

740
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: We'd go in the same bucket, even though we kind

741
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: of do similar things about very different things, and we

742
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: probably have some similar interests in some different interests. And

743
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: it's interesting how there isn't a space. Like I often

744
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: say to people, I'm just trying to be everyone's spiritual friend.

745
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: Like that's my goal. Like I'm that guy who's introducing

746
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: my friends to cool things that they may not have

747
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: come across, whether it's Eastern spirituality or wisdom or whatever

748
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: it may be. Like, I'm that guy, and that's all

749
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: I want to be. I don't want to be anything else, right,

750
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: But it's hard when you almost get put on a pedestal,

751
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: even though you didn't ask for that. I didn't want that.

752
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 2: Well, people's perception of you can almost become how you

753
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: perceive yourself if you're not careful for sure, you know.

754
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 2: And so that's why I keep coming back to myself

755
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: and going, is that really who I am?

756
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: Yes?

757
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 2: I don't think so, Robert, you know. And also I

758
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 2: actually I have a flawed individual. I'm a flawed human being.

759
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: I have, you know, blind spots in my nature. I

760
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: have compulsions that I wish I didn't have. And I

761
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 2: don't like this idea that people think I'm this powerful

762
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: person who's figured everything out because I'm not. I have

763
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 2: That's why I write wrote the book The Laws of

764
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 2: Human Nature. It was because I understand that I shared

765
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 2: the same flaws that I have. Narcissistic tendencies that I

766
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: too can feel envy that I have moments of grandiosity.

767
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: So I'm not comfortable with the idea like that I'm

768
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 2: this somebody that I'm not that the perception of me is.

769
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: But that's what happens to a lot of successful, famous people.

770
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: They become trapped in what other people are thinking about them.

771
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: They become trapped in that image. And I honestly think

772
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: I could be way off base, but I'm thinking of

773
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 2: somebody like Anthony Bourdain who committed suicide. I think he

774
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 2: was burdened and weighed down so much by how people

775
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: thought of himself and it wasn't who he was, and

776
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 2: it kind of made him feel deeply uncomfortable. And I'm

777
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: sure there were many other issues going on, but a

778
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: lot of times it can make you uncomfortable in your

779
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 2: own skin, the way people perceive you, and it can

780
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 2: lead to deep feeling links of depression and I and

781
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 2: a loss of who you are.

782
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean could write a new book

783
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: called the Flaws of Human Nature.

784
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: It's like, thank you, that's what the book is. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

785
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: it's eighteen dark corners of human Nature. But yeah, that's

786
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: a good idea.

787
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's no it's just, you know, I thought of

788
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: like it is true. It's there's a seeking of perfection,

789
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: and there's a sense that we've created in the world

790
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: of before and after, in the sense that if you

791
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: look at like a workout program, and there's nothing wrong

792
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: with this because it makes sense, but there's a before

793
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 1: picture and there's an after picture. And if someone's wealthy,

794
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: it's like they were poor and now they're rich, and

795
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: everything's a linear before and after journey. And what we're

796
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: talking about, and I fully agree with you on this,

797
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: is that actually all of my challenges are cyclical and

798
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:00,720
Speaker 1: they're different. So it's not that I never feel anymore.

799
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: It's that I feel it differently to how I felt

800
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 1: it ten years ago, and hopefully I'm a bit better

801
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: at dealing with it and understanding it and engaging with

802
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: it than I was ten years ago. But it's not

803
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: that it doesn't affect me anymore, right right, And same

804
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: with spiraling thoughts. It's not that I don't have anxious

805
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: or negative thoughts anymore because I'm enlightened. I still have

806
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: those thoughts. I just deal with them better than I

807
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: did ten years ago, and I probably have more tools

808
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: to help.

809
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 2: Me engage with that's true, that's free.

810
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 1: And I think that cyclical nature is a wonderful thing

811
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: to accept as an individual and as someone who's learning,

812
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 1: because you then don't fool yourself to think, oh, there

813
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: will be one day where I will no longer have

814
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: a negative or anxious thought like Jay and Robert, like

815
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: you know, they probably never have it. It's like, well, yeah,

816
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: you probably have less, but it's not that I never.

817
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 2: Have done exactly right. Yeah yeah.

818
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: And so that kind of idea of this before and after,

819
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: I think is what confuses so many people because it

820
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: feels like, oh, there is a point at which I

821
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: never have to go back to being this version of myself.

822
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: Well, that life isn't like that, you know. It's weird

823
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 2: sometimes because before the forty eight Laws of Power came out,

824
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 2: I was just this nobody living in a two one

825
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: bedroom apartment in Santa Monica, rent controlled, you know, never

826
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: really made any money, never really had any success in life,

827
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 2: and I was constantly giving people advice, but nobody would

828
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: listen to me because I hadn't written the book. And

829
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: suddenly the book comes out and I'm supposed to be

830
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: a different person. It's very strange. But I'm actually the

831
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: same person that I was when I was living in

832
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 2: that miserable one bedroom apartment, you know, and giving out

833
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: my advice that nobody listened to. Now people listen to it.

834
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: But the only difference is because suddenly I have this credential,

835
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: which is very strange.

836
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can relate to that so many ways. I

837
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: used to be mentoring, coaching people in my community. I

838
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: would do these little events in London ten eleven years

839
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: ago now where like five people would show up and

840
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: it was, you know, I was just doing it. I

841
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: would speak at universities for free for years, like I was.

842
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: It was, you know, It's been such a big part

843
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: of my life to just do this. I've always wanted

844
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: to be someone who's learning and sharing. That's what I enjoy.

845
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: I enjoy learning, and I enjoy sharing, and I enjoy

846
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: synthesizing and making things simple and practical for other people's

847
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: That's what I get my joy from. And I was

848
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: always inspired by two quotes. One is Ivan Pavlov where

849
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: he said, if you want a new idea, read an

850
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: old book. And so that's always been something that my

851
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: work has been inspired by. It's always based on ideas

852
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: that seem timeless, but they're.

853
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 2: And old, very beautiful. Yeah.

854
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then there's another thought from Einstein, which is

855
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: another part of what inspires my work, which is if

856
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough.

857
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: And so these are the two kind of tenets that

858
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: what I enjoyed doing in the world. And again, I

859
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: don't think they're magnificent, miraculous or brilliant. They're just what

860
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: I'm meant to do. And there's such a beautiful significance

861
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: and insignificance in that very understanding, Like it's really significant

862
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: building because I'm like, I know what I have to do,

863
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: and it's really insignificant because I'm like, it's just what

864
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: I have to do. It it's not the best or

865
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: the worst, or it's not comparative, right, And I think

866
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: that's how when you're talking in the daily Laws of Power,

867
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of how, in different words, how you

868
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: describe like your life's you know, your life's gifts, your

869
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 1: life's work, your life's path.

870
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 2: I've always liked all books myself, so you know, I

871
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 2: read a lot of books of philosophy, et cetre history,

872
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 2: but I also read books of famous zen classics, the

873
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 2: twentieth century books, I'm not so sure, but I'd read

874
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 2: like something from the eleventh century, where the thought process

875
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 2: is so different, but it's timeless, it's human. Man, it

876
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: is so beautiful. It so sparks these ideas that he

877
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 2: or this writer, this thinker was dealing with the same

878
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: things now a thousand years later. But they still strike

879
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 2: a truth. But it's in this language that's very weird

880
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: and primitive and barbaric. I don't know why that excites

881
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 2: me so much. It's the same idea that a modern

882
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 2: writer might write, but put in the words of seventy

883
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 2: thousand years ago, it suddenly touches me.

884
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

885
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: Can you explain that, Jay?

886
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if I can, apart from

887
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: the fact that you've reincarnated and you had some connection

888
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: to it. But can I explain it. I can't explain it,

889
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 1: but I can I can reflect on it. I mean,

890
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: I find that there's a part of it that that

891
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: right or creator may never have known if anyone would

892
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: ever read it. Yeah, And so that privacy and that

893
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: secrecy and that intimacy with their work, not knowing that

894
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: it would ever be viewed seen read broadcasted. That has

895
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: some power to ask.

896
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a humility to that, whereas now people right

897
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 2: were expecting all these people to be reading it. We

898
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 2: do it for the attention. Yeah, it was much different

899
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 2: back then. Yeah, that's very interesting. I ever thought of that.

900
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've I've definitely found that. I try and wreath. Yeah,

901
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: I try and sit with ideas for longer now and

902
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 1: try and kind of I'd love to know your process

903
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: for that. However you managed that since that moment of

904
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: where you became quote unquote successful because externally because of

905
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: forty eight laws, how did that change your creative process?

906
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: How did you hold on to the roots of this

907
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: kind of thinking.

908
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 2: So, after the forty eight Laws of Power came out

909
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 2: and it was successful, I was at a turning point

910
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 2: in my life, and it's a turning point that a

911
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: lot of people I think have faced, was to I

912
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 2: just can continue redoing the forty eight Laws of Part

913
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 2: It was successful, it worked. Well, why don't I just

914
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 2: write the forty eight Laws of Power Part two. It'll

915
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 2: bring in money, it'll bring in attention. I'll just riff

916
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 2: off what I wrote there. And something about me was

917
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 2: not comfortable with that it seemed cheap, it seemed easy,

918
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: and it seemed lazy. And I know myself that if

919
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 2: I'm not challenged by something different, I grow bored. So

920
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 2: I have to write something that feels like there's energy

921
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 2: behind it, there's anger, there's love, there's something powerful behind it.

922
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 2: I have to feel it or it won't be in

923
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: the words. So if I'm just doing the forty eight

924
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 2: Laws of Power Part two, it won't be there. It'll

925
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 2: have an emptiness, and damn it. A lot of artists

926
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 2: and writers fall into that trap, and it's why their

927
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 2: books kind of have this sort of hollow ring to them, right,

928
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 2: They're just going through the motion. It's just repeating what

929
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 2: worked before, and I can't stand that feeling. I have

930
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 2: to feel like I'm off into a new land if

931
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: with this new book. So each book has to represent

932
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 2: a challenge, right, And so the one I'm writing now

933
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 2: is completely different from all seven of the other books,

934
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,280
Speaker 2: and it's an incredible challenge. But it makes me excited

935
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 2: about every day because I know I cannot repeat the

936
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 2: same kind of books over and over and over again.

937
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: My soul becomes dead and I have to feel alive

938
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: with each projects.

939
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,720
Speaker 1: I'm loving these personal answers. No. No, I can resonate

940
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: very deeply with that as well. I always try and

941
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: write about something that I'm working through or struggling with,

942
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: whether it's personal, whether it's with clients, whether it's with

943
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: someone in my life, friend's family, Like it feels alive.

944
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: It needs to feel alive. I can't write from a

945
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: point of theory or knowing, like the book has to

946
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: be a discovery exactly. And I've only just started my job.

947
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: I've only written two books. But as I'm hearing you,

948
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: I'm happy to that I feel that I'm thinking about

949
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: it in a healthy way, because yeah, I was. I

950
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: was about to write my third book and the topic

951
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: everyone wanted was so predictable and expected and it made sense,

952
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't want to write about

953
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: something that makes sense, Like that's boring. Like it's like,

954
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 1: I want to write about something that feels like alive

955
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: in my life and electric it makes me. I'm like,

956
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: now that I've chosen, I will tell this to you later,

957
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: but I've chosen my next topic and I'm just been

958
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: like writing notes about it. I'm reading about it. I'm

959
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: seeing connections out.

960
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: That means it's going to be a great book.

961
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just it feels. I mean it's harder. It's

962
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,919
Speaker 1: harder because you don't know. So you're spending more time,

963
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: Like we said earlier, you're spending more time with emptiness

964
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: because there's a sense of, well, I don't know which

965
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 1: direction this book's going to go in.

966
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

967
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: So it's it's that comfortable with discomfort and uncertainty.

968
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's a joy in that, yeah, very much so.

969
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're when you're discovering your process through a

970
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: book or or work, how have you learned to become

971
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: comfortable when the discomfort of creativity in that, like you

972
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: don't know where the path's going to take, You don't

973
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: know if it's going to land or not. You don't

974
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: have it, Like, how are you grappling with that process

975
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: of what we're discussing.

976
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's very strange because I'm dealing with it right

977
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: this very moment. I'm writing something that's driving me crazy

978
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,879
Speaker 2: and it's this and the very subject I'm writing about

979
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 2: is about what I'm going through. So I'm writing it.

980
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 2: This is in my book on the Sublime, and I'm

981
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 2: writing about the concept of the damon are you familiar

982
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 2: with that? It's the idea, it's an ancient Greek idea,

983
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: but it's in many other cultures that we have a

984
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: second self, that there's something, there's a voice inside of

985
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: us that is guiding us to something higher or better,

986
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 2: but it can also lead us to something lower and worse.

987
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,359
Speaker 2: It can be demonic, which is where the word comes from,

988
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 2: or it could be something. And Socrates had his dameon

989
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 2: there's a voice in soide of him, and it said

990
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 2: it always just said this is the right way to go,

991
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 2: or this is the wrong way to go. Nothing more

992
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: than that right. And so when I'm writing, it doesn't

993
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 2: feel right, and it's driving me crazy. And I'm going

994
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: through this right now. It doesn't feel right, it doesn't resonate.

995
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 2: It's not truth, it's not real. You got to start over,

996
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 2: you got to do it again. And in the back

997
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 2: of my mind, I'm thinking, God, I've lost it. I'm

998
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 2: getting old, and I just don't have my mojo anymore.

999
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 2: But then I realized I've gone through this like eighty

1000
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 2: five times every single book. It'll come to you, it'll

1001
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 2: come back. It isn't right because it doesn't feel right,

1002
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: it doesn't resonate, it doesn't have a reality to it.

1003
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 2: So I have to go through this process where I

1004
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: write something and it excites me and it interests me,

1005
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 2: and it just flows out of me, as opposed to

1006
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 2: like I have to pull every word out, And so

1007
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: I learned to trust myself that eventually I'll figure it out.

1008
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 2: But each time I hit that while I go, this

1009
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 2: is it. You're finished. The book isn't going to come out.

1010
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 2: You're done. The wells are dry, you know.

1011
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting. I feel like that is every

1012
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: creative's journey, like it has to go through that the

1013
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 1: wells are dry, as you just said, that kind of

1014
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: experience of that's it, it's over, there's nothing else coming

1015
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: out now. I'm you know, and and it's almost like

1016
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: we as we know, like the cliche of like it's

1017
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: on the other side of that feeling. Yeah, but it's true.

1018
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: There is a sense of when everything is just or

1019
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: not making sense. How have you learned the sense whether

1020
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: something feels true to you because it obviously felt true

1021
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,439
Speaker 1: to someone. How do you decipher between this feels true,

1022
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: It feels real to me even if people don't agree.

1023
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 2: With it, because it just feels that way.

1024
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: It's purely just a feeling.

1025
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 2: First of all, it it like I'm always trying to

1026
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 2: get at what's real and not what's theoretical. I have

1027
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 2: a real dislike of abstraction for its own right. It

1028
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 2: feels like it's a way of eluding something. It's an evasion.

1029
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 2: I want to get at the core and the reality

1030
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: of what I'm trying to write about, and so when

1031
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: I get it, I feel it and I know that

1032
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: I've done that, and I have the reader in my mind,

1033
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 2: and I know the reader can connect to it. It's

1034
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 2: going to have a personal appeal. Whereas I have a

1035
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 2: tendency to be abstract and professorial and theoretical, I cross

1036
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 2: all of that out. If you saw my notebooks, ninety

1037
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: five percent of it's crossed out. And I don't let

1038
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 2: the public ever see that side of me because I

1039
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 2: don't like it. I want my books to feel like

1040
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 2: I'm hitting something that's actually truthful and real that people

1041
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 2: don't like to talk about. Kind of thing, you know.

1042
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 2: So right now I'm writing about what is our self?

1043
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 2: What is the sense of self that we have in

1044
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 2: our world? It's a very limited idea of the self.

1045
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 2: We have a very limited idea of our consciousness, very

1046
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 2: limited idea of what it means to be a human

1047
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: being in the twenty first century. We're actually much more

1048
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 2: immense and much more interesting than we think we are.

1049
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 2: We have these possibilities, these connections because we're a part

1050
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 2: of something incredibly vast, and to have consciousness is absolutely

1051
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 2: an astounding thing, right, So I want to sort of

1052
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 2: expand what you the reader thinks of who you are,

1053
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 2: what yourself is. It's much larger than you imagine. But

1054
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 2: I have to convey that in language that feels right

1055
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 2: to me, that feels authentic, that feels like everybody in Africa,

1056
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 2: in China, in India, in Idaho is going to be

1057
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 2: able to relate to it, you know.

1058
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, for sure. And that's I think that's

1059
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: what I was alluding to with that invisible world point

1060
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: of like how that's what we don't see, Like there's

1061
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: so much to ourselves that we don't see that we're

1062
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: fully unaware of that we don't have, we don't realize

1063
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: we have act access to. And Yeah, finding the right

1064
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: terminology I find to be such a There's there's one

1065
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: word that I love, which is a bit more etherial,

1066
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: but I guess an astronomer could find some beauty in it.

1067
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: But there's a term in the Vedic literature is called

1068
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: unto akash, which means inner sky. Again, unto akash inner

1069
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,439
Speaker 1: and akash means sky, inner sky. Yeah, in a sky.

1070
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: And it's this idea of how, you know, we're so

1071
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: fascinated by outer space, but there's that same inner sky

1072
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: that exists, so just that like the galaxy and the

1073
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: planetary systems and everything else that exists internally too, But

1074
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: there has to be a just as we have to

1075
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: go and do space exploration, you could do the same internally.

1076
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: You discover so much.

1077
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm writing about. That's very interesting.

1078
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: And and and it's yeah, it's fascinating and so yeah,

1079
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: I find language is what I find vocabulary so needed.

1080
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: And I feel like I grew up with the smart vocabulary,

1081
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: but not the biggest and I feel reading, of course

1082
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: expands that, and especially when you read history and other books,

1083
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: and I found that its language is just so powerful.

1084
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:16,919
Speaker 1: And I worry that social media exposes us to such

1085
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 1: limited language that the brain and the mind and the

1086
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: consciousness doesn't have the opportunity to be expansive because the

1087
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: words don't allow for it. If we're all reading the

1088
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 1: same memes and the same trends and the same hashtags,

1089
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: and it kind of just creates this very very limited

1090
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: space of consciousness.

1091
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I like looking at other languages. I've

1092
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 2: speak several other languages and I'm constantly learning them. And

1093
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 2: right now I'm reading a lot about an African culture

1094
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 2: called the Akhan in West Africa and Ghana and their

1095
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 2: concepts of the soul, the spirit, and the body. And

1096
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 2: they have a word in there called sun zoom and

1097
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 2: we translated to spirit. But then I'm reading the African

1098
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 2: philosophers who actually know that word, and they go, it's

1099
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 2: not the same as the word spirit, and then they

1100
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 2: go out and describe it, and that one word contains

1101
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 2: all of these other worlds that are so weird and

1102
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 2: interesting that the word spirit in English does not convey, right,

1103
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 2: you know, And other languages have that sense, and so

1104
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 2: language can have that possibility where it opens up. It's

1105
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 2: not just this unior this one track meaning. It has

1106
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 2: other balances, other possibilities to it, right, And so yeah,

1107
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 2: we're kind of deadening our language in a way. And

1108
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 2: you know, if you study like other cultures, you know,

1109
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 2: Eskimos had like a thousand words for snow and we

1110
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 2: have one word. You know, Russians have like forty words

1111
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 2: for the color blue and we have one word. Kind

1112
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 2: of thing. As the language gets smaller and smaller and

1113
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 2: more uniform, our thoughts become more and more limited in uniform.

1114
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 2: So to no here a word like inner sky, it

1115
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 2: opens up all these other ideas in your mind, whereas

1116
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 2: we don't have a word like that in English, you know.

1117
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 2: And then because I'm doing things for Zen, Japanese language

1118
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 2: is so rich with things that we can't possibly even

1119
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 2: begin to express in English, you know.

1120
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, what have been other ways of people opening

1121
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: up their minds? This has been something one of my

1122
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: favorite things to do. I remember reading a quote from

1123
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: Robin shar My years ago that said ordinary people have

1124
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: big TVs. Extraordinary people have big libraries. And it was

1125
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: one of those, you know, little dreams I had that

1126
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 1: was I want to I have a home, I'm gonna

1127
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 1: have a big library. And that was one of my

1128
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: most favorite things to kind of put together when I

1129
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: moved here and started spending more time in when I

1130
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 1: would travel, I've always collected books. I've always and I

1131
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 1: started collecting expanding my audio library. I realized as I

1132
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 1: grew When I was growing up, we listened to a

1133
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: very limited form of music in my home, and even

1134
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: I was growing up as a teenager, I listened to

1135
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 1: like one genre of music, rap and hip hop, like

1136
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: that was. And again, I love rap and hip hop.

1137
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: I love rap and hip hop history. It's super cool.

1138
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: I have no issues with it. I just think that

1139
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 1: my audio library was so limited in my teens that

1140
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: now that I'm in my thirties, I'm now listening. I'm

1141
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: trying to listen to so many random, different things, which

1142
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: again inspire different thoughts, different feelings, different emotions. And so

1143
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: I've realized that vocabulary was one thing, audio has been

1144
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: another thing. What are other things that you've discovered that

1145
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: help open up that consciousness of mind, because, as we

1146
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: both keep referring to social media, technology is almost making

1147
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 1: us more limited, more singular, more one dimensional.

1148
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 2: Well, as I said, it's something I'm writing about right now.

1149
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 2: So music and the audible stuff is very, very interesting

1150
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 2: and very exciting. So this is new phenomenon where musicologists

1151
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 2: have been able to recreate music from eras that we

1152
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 2: never could listen to before. So I was writing at

1153
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 2: one point about a festival in ancient Greece, and to

1154
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: put me in the mood, I wanted to hear ancient

1155
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 2: Greek music. Well that doesn't exist, having no recordings of it,

1156
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 2: but sure enough there are, and the rhythms and the

1157
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 2: sound is so weird an alien that it makes it

1158
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 2: music captures the spirit of a time, right. So if

1159
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 2: we're only hearing these same melodies, you hear cards going

1160
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 2: by with that same kind of pop song, it's such

1161
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 2: a limited circle of harmony, such a limited circle of

1162
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 2: what music can be. But when you open up to

1163
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 2: African music, to music from ancient Babylonia to Greece, to

1164
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 2: music in South America, other rhythms, other poetry in music

1165
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 2: and sounds, it's mind blowing. It's interesting. So that's what

1166
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 2: I'm saying, that the human animal is much more interesting

1167
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 2: than we think it is. Reading about ancient cultures is

1168
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 2: a very mind expansive project. You can go on because.

1169
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: Books you'd recommend in that regard.

1170
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 2: You know what's so exciting now is they have these

1171
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 2: books called The Daily Life in the Daily Life in

1172
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 2: Ancient Babyloni, the daily life in I forget which city

1173
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 2: in India, the daily life in ancient Greece, etc. And

1174
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 2: you get to feel for not just the grand philosophical issues,

1175
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 2: but how people ate, what their houses were like. And

1176
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 2: so so I was writing. I just wrote a chapter

1177
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 2: about our relations shift to time and history, and I

1178
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 2: was trying to take the reader in my new book.

1179
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 2: I'm giving them exercises and I'm saying, try to imagine

1180
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 2: yourself in a world a thousand years ago, and you

1181
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 2: walk out your front door. There's no mechanical sounds. There's

1182
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 2: no airplanes, there's no cars, there's no machines. It's just birds.

1183
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 2: Maybe a saw and a hammer is the most you're

1184
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 2: going to hear. That's a strange thing. There are no signs,

1185
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 2: there are no advertisements, there's no words. Everywhere. It's kind

1186
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 2: of empty, right, you're just wandering around. There are all

1187
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,959
Speaker 2: these kind of rants and weird, horrible smells because people

1188
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 2: aren't bathing, there's no but they're very human smells. Right,

1189
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 2: Your whole sensory experience is on another level. But when

1190
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 2: you live in this twenty first century world where things

1191
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 2: are so sanitized, but we don't smell these things. We

1192
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 2: only hear these packaged mechanical sounds. Your sensory world is

1193
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:00,040
Speaker 2: shrinking down and down and down, and you realize the

1194
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 2: ancient world they had some bad stuff. They weren't very good.

1195
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 2: You know, they had slavery. I understand all of the negatives.

1196
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 2: So I'm not painting this portrait. But on another level,

1197
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 2: their realm of senses, their realm of language, their internal

1198
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:19,680
Speaker 2: worlds were far richer than ours. And by connecting to

1199
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 2: them by reading these books, by reading books, not just

1200
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 2: the daily life thing I said, but actually text from

1201
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,799
Speaker 2: those times. As I was mentioning, when I read a monk,

1202
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 2: a zen monk from the eleventh century, and the different

1203
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 2: thought processes, It opens my mind to a different way

1204
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,680
Speaker 2: of thinking, to a different way of accessing reality. But

1205
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 2: like I'm reading a lot about Aztecs because I'm sort

1206
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 2: of obsessed with the Aztecs. I don't know why. And

1207
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 2: they had these amazing spectacles. That was the thing about

1208
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 2: the ancient world, these festivals and spectacles that are far

1209
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 2: beyond burning Man or any rock concert, right, you know,

1210
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 2: I could describe the fire ceremony in Astec culture that

1211
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 2: only occurred every seventy years. There is nothing you can

1212
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:07,640
Speaker 2: ever imagine in your life that would be like that.

1213
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 2: It is so utterly spectacular. And so I have this

1214
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 2: eight hundred page book called as Tech Philosophy, and it's

1215
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 2: very theoretical, but God, it gives you an entree into

1216
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 2: a totally different way of thinking about the world. Right

1217
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 2: where they have these metaphors that the universe has this energy.

1218
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 2: Some of the energy is like stream that's being wound

1219
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 2: around in a certain way. It's like weaving, like other

1220
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 2: other things like that. This kind of energy that the

1221
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 2: world has. Wow, this is fascinating. You know, our ancestors

1222
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 2: were actually thinking, but they're not. Aren't there us? It's

1223
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 2: a human being. We're all human. We all have those

1224
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 2: same kind of consciousness.

1225
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. I love also finding things in coaches

1226
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: that match in different languages, and so so I went

1227
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 1: to Hawaii a few years ago, which obviously for someone

1228
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: who grew up in London, it's not normal. People in

1229
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: America or La traveled to Hawaii fairly often. I went

1230
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: to Hawaii, and well, not often, it's more accessible, but

1231
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: I went recently and my wife and I went on

1232
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: one of the tours there and they showed us the

1233
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 1: peraglyphs which are there obviously like markings and storytelling technique

1234
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 1: and tool. And they were showing us how when a

1235
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 1: child is born, they used to place the umbilical cord

1236
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: on the ground and they would then draw a spiral

1237
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: around it and that would be seen as a place

1238
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 1: that the child could always come back to to feel

1239
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 1: the energy and reconnect with the earth. Oh exciting, and

1240
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 1: I was thinking, that's spectacular. I wish everyone felt disconnected

1241
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 1: to the earth. And then we would go out every

1242
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: morning on a canoe. I forget their name for it,

1243
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: but they had their version for it, and they would

1244
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: pay respects to the Sun and the ocean and we

1245
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 1: would take part in this ceremony with them. And in

1246
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: India there's something known as Suria Namashkara, which it translates

1247
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: to sun salutation, which again I've talked to Andrew Huberman

1248
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 1: about This is like kicking off the Circadian rhythm. But

1249
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: the goal is you pay your respects to the sun

1250
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:14,600
Speaker 1: for everything it offers to you and the energy that

1251
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: it provides. And so to see that in Hawaiian culture,

1252
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: Indian culture, and then I was in Bhutan recently I

1253
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 1: went on a trip to Bhutan, which I'd always wanted

1254
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: to visit, and this is a culture that really feels

1255
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: like you're going back in time. You walk out there

1256
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:32,879
Speaker 1: and it feels like what you just described a thousand

1257
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 1: years ago, landlocked between Indian China.

1258
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,799
Speaker 2: Indian China, so right in between where they're having their tensions,

1259
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:43,640
Speaker 2: the kind of wars that's going on a little bit.

1260
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 1: Bhutan doesn't have a war. No, they don't even have

1261
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:47,799
Speaker 1: a military. It's not part of their culture.

1262
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 2: Wow.

1263
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: They believe in their Buddhist nation, yes, yes, and their

1264
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 1: practices are very protected. Their culture is very protected. Like

1265
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: everyone's really still wears the cultural dress. It was spectacular.

1266
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 1: There's no there may be a couple of these now,

1267
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:13,480
Speaker 1: but until very recently, there's no mals, no cinemas, no restaurants,

1268
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 1: like completely, and it's beautiful because it's just hills and mountains.

1269
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:22,639
Speaker 1: They believe that the forest will always be seventy percent

1270
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: of the land mass because they believe they're sacred. You

1271
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 1: can't trek up to or ski on any of their

1272
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 1: mountains because they're sacred. They protect them. So there's a

1273
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 1: really and you almost I almost felt like what you

1274
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:36,679
Speaker 1: just said there's no signs, you can't hear anything, there's

1275
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 1: no machinery like it really does feel like that, and

1276
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: we all, all of us who are there, experienced this

1277
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:49,760
Speaker 1: sense of slowness that you don't experience anywhere else, not

1278
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 1: in a bad way in the mind. The gravity almost

1279
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 1: of the space was really really powerful to experience.

1280
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 2: That's very exciting because you know, you can go out

1281
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 2: into nature, into the mountains and you can feel that

1282
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 2: and you can feel like this is what it was

1283
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 2: like two thousand, one hundred thousand years ago. But we

1284
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:14,639
Speaker 2: don't have that feeling with human things because every city

1285
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 2: has its Starbucks, it's malls, it's generic culture that we've

1286
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 2: transported throughout the world. So to have a place where

1287
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 2: you can actually go back in time is fantastic. But

1288
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 2: I wish it wasn't so far away.

1289
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's worth

1290
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 1: visiting for anyone who wants to do. It was a

1291
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 1: really special trip. But you're right, the generic culture is

1292
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: the right word. Actually, there's there's every street looks the same,

1293
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 1: every area looks the same, you do. I know there's

1294
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 1: a lot of passion behind local businesses, and it's healthy

1295
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:51,240
Speaker 1: people want to support local business. We need more of

1296
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: that because the generic culture really takes away from like

1297
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:57,719
Speaker 1: you expect. I mean, I was an Indian just recently

1298
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 1: on the way back, and it's like there's a Tim Hawtons,

1299
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:03,840
Speaker 1: like right there, Tim Hortons, which I think is like

1300
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 1: popular in Canada or something like that. Is it popular

1301
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 1: in the US Tim Hortons, it's Canada or my wife

1302
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 1: was telling me about it, but it was just one

1303
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:12,679
Speaker 1: of these it's it's And then there was a Starbucks

1304
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 1: and then it was the same, the same thing, and

1305
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm in India, like you know, like

1306
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 1: I don't not expect it, but it's yeah, it's the

1307
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 1: generic that's what's made the brain so dull it has.

1308
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we're becoming homoginized. I mean I like going

1309
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:31,759
Speaker 2: to countries like Mexico because there's still pockets in Mexico

1310
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:35,719
Speaker 2: where you can feel something of another of a very

1311
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:39,879
Speaker 2: different culture. You know, it's only in small, little areas,

1312
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:43,720
Speaker 2: but it's very excited. Nothing like Boots Hahn, but you

1313
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 2: can still get it a little bit, you know.

1314
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's been such a joy talking to you today,

1315
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:49,880
Speaker 1: and as always, I love how we just get lost,

1316
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: and this is what I wanted.

1317
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 2: I was.

1318
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 1: I was craving a authentic, real connection where both of

1319
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: our minds were in this moment.

1320
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:57,680
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but.

1321
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: I want to end with a few h so fast

1322
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 1: paced questions. We call this the fast five, and I

1323
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:06,720
Speaker 1: probably did it with you last time, so I'm going

1324
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 1: to change it up this.

1325
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 2: Time for you. My mind is fast enough to up

1326
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 2: with you.

1327
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 1: So you have to answer the questions. It's more like

1328
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 1: the Final five. You've got to answer the questions in

1329
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 1: one word to one sentence maximum. So Robert Green, these

1330
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: are your final five. The first question is what is

1331
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:26,759
Speaker 1: something you had wish you'd learned earlier?

1332
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 2: The piano? I mean, I know you were probably thinking

1333
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 2: about something about life, but I love music and I

1334
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 2: wish I had learned the piano when I was young.

1335
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 1: Do you still play? Do you plan that?

1336
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 2: And no?

1337
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 1: No? Okay. Second question, what is something that you used

1338
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: to be sure about that you now are less sure about.

1339
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:54,639
Speaker 2: I guess a sense of right and wrong, or good,

1340
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 2: good and evil. When I was young, I had a

1341
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 2: very strong sense of it it's and now I'm not

1342
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 2: so sure about what it is.

1343
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 1: Answer question number three, If you could go back and

1344
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 1: live in any age. I'm thinking you going to say

1345
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 1: the Aztecs. But where would you like to go and

1346
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:16,759
Speaker 1: where would you want to live and what would you ask?

1347
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 2: I would go back to the Paleolithic era and our

1348
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 2: earliest ancestors because I'm fascinated by their world and what

1349
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 2: they were like. So the Paleolithics twenty thousand years ago, okay,

1350
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:40,280
Speaker 2: And I would like to know about their religion, their spirituality.

1351
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,440
Speaker 2: I'm interested in origins of human consciousness?

1352
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:45,640
Speaker 1: So have you read any books on that? Then?

1353
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,680
Speaker 2: Yes? What would write about if someone the subject? I

1354
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 2: was just my last chapter I was writing about the

1355
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:57,200
Speaker 2: origin of language is the origin of human consciousness. It's

1356
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 2: the same time that there were the cave paintings, right,

1357
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 2: famous cave paintings in France, but they're all over the world, Aborigines,

1358
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 2: et cetera. And that was the beginning of symbolic consciousness. Yeah,

1359
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 2: there are all sorts of books written on that subject.

1360
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:18,040
Speaker 1: Amazing. Question Number four. If you could have three people

1361
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 1: over at your dinner party, any three people you choose,

1362
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: living or dead, who would they be?

1363
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 2: What would be Friedrich Nietzsche? Because I'm reading a biography

1364
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 2: of his right now, that's unbelievable. The other would be

1365
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 2: Buddha why not, And then the other would be a

1366
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 2: very odd mix of people. So I don't know if

1367
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:46,680
Speaker 2: they're going to get a good Yeah, I'd say I'll

1368
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 2: maybe Socrates and let the fur fly.

1369
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 1: Fifth and final question, Robert.

1370
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:59,600
Speaker 2: I finally stressful.

1371
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: They are something you're trying to learn right now.

1372
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 2: To be more forgiving about myself because I'm extremely unforgiving

1373
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 2: with yourself. Yeah, not easy. It's not been my life pattern.

1374
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:16,559
Speaker 1: Where did the pursuit begin and why is it a

1375
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:17,439
Speaker 1: worthy pursuit?

1376
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:21,639
Speaker 2: Well, I think because of my upbringing, I always had

1377
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 2: a feeling of never good enough. I'm never smart enough,

1378
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,880
Speaker 2: I'm not doing enough. I'm not a good enough person,

1379
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:36,920
Speaker 2: and I internalize that and so it's probably partially led

1380
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:40,960
Speaker 2: to my stroke. Probably let me drive makes me drive

1381
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:45,680
Speaker 2: myself too hard, and so sometimes I just have to

1382
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 2: be more forgiving. So instead of thinking, God, I'm never

1383
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:52,960
Speaker 2: going to write anymore at the well is dry, the

1384
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 2: forgiving aspect is, Robert, you're tired, you're exhausted, You're doing fine,

1385
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:01,760
Speaker 2: It's going to come. It will come, just trust it.

1386
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:07,520
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like, you know, being indulgent towards yourself.

1387
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:10,400
Speaker 2: I can be indulgent towards other people, but I can't

1388
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 2: be indulgent towards myself. So just learning to forgive myself

1389
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 2: for not being perfect, if for not getting exactly what

1390
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,600
Speaker 2: I want in life, does the hardest thing for me,

1391
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:24,559
Speaker 2: that's beautiful. It'd be very good for my health if

1392
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,360
Speaker 2: I could, if I could ever get there, that's beautiful.

1393
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 1: Thank you, Robert. You're welcome everyone, Robert Green. I hope

1394
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode of me and Robert truly just

1395
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: having a genuine, passionate conversation about things we love. Please

1396
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 1: share on TikTok, on x, on Instagram, on Facebook, whatever

1397
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:46,240
Speaker 1: platform you use. In the YouTube comments section, what resonated

1398
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 1: with you, What books you're going to read, what you

1399
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 1: connected with maybe some of the creatives out there who

1400
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:53,639
Speaker 1: want to shift the way they think, or whether you've

1401
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 1: got some great insights on what are strong and weak

1402
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 1: character points. I want to know what hit you, what

1403
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:00,759
Speaker 1: resonate with you? And thank you so much for listening

1404
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 1: and watching, And thank you again Robert for your time.

1405
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 2: Thank you so much so as usual, I really enjoyed it.

1406
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:07,679
Speaker 1: Thank you. That means a lot.

1407
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:09,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, we go on for hours.

1408
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:12,679
Speaker 1: I know, truly. If you love this episode, you'll love

1409
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 1: my interview with Dr Gabor Matte on understanding your trauma

1410
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 1: and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on

1411
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:21,839
Speaker 1: from the past.

1412
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 2: Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a

1413
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 2: tree doesn't go o where it's hard and thick, does it.

1414
01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:29,640
Speaker 2: It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.