1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, a gorgeous mom of two murdered, 2 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: her body folded in a fetal position in a suitcase 3 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: and dragged down the sidewalk of her high scale suburban neighborhood, 4 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: literally leaving a trail of blood from the suitcase to 5 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: her side door of her own home, a home we 6 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: learned that had a very extensive and sophisticated alarm system. 7 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: In the last hours busted, there has been an arrest 8 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: in the murder of this gorgeous mom or Sawyah gail I, 9 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being 10 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. 11 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to our friends ABC seven. 12 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: Topping our headlines of this hour, we are breaking news, 13 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: police making arrest in the gruesome murder of our Sallya 14 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: Gall and Queens David Benola facing several charges according to police, 15 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: including murder and criminal tampering. Gall was stabbed to death 16 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: in her Forest Hills home on Friday, multiple stab wounds. 17 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: After an evening out. Her body was found about half 18 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: a mile away, stuffed inside a duffel bag, and we 19 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: expect to learn more. To news conference this afternoon, stuffed 20 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: in a Duffel bag. Now, who in the world would 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: have access to that home not shipped the alarm, nowhere 22 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: to find the son, her young son's hockey bag, have 23 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: access to her phone, know her code, and take the 24 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: time to stage the scene sending some bizarre text to 25 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: her husband, who was out of town in Oregon on 26 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: a college shopping trip with his older son. Who would 27 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: do that? Who would stage the scene? Well, now we 28 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: know straight out. A special guest joining us, Stephanie Pagonas 29 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: is joining us from Fox Business Fox News Digital reporter Stephanie, 30 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Who is this guy? 31 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: So David Benola. Police say he has no unsealed criminal history. 32 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: He is a forty four year old man who lived 33 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: in Queens, not far from where the victim and her 34 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: family lived. Police said he was the family's handyman. He 35 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: had been working with the families for about two years. 36 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: He also had been in an intimate relationship with Orsolia 37 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: Goal for about two years, but the couple had broken. Stephanie, Yes, 38 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: can I tell you something? Thank you for not leading 39 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: the murder k with the fact that she had an affair. 40 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: Everywhere I turned. That's the headline she slept with a handyman. 41 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: Who gives a fig what she may or may not 42 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: have done in her life or why she did it. 43 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: We know she would call the relationship off, and we 44 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: understand from his double confession one on video that he 45 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: was trying to rekindle the relationship and she refused. I 46 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: don't want to hear any victim shaming at all, for 47 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: everybody on the panel. Just brace for that. No victim shaming. 48 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: I mean, think about it, doctor Angie Arnold, what if 49 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: the worst thing? Think about it, everybody, including you, Jackie, 50 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: who can do no wrong, Think of the worst thing 51 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: you have ever done, something you've never told a soul. 52 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: And that's gonna be on your tombstone. That's going to 53 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: be the headline on every the New York Post. That's 54 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: in the headline. Your sons, your children are going to 55 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: know that, you know, Nancy. I think I think that 56 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: the reason these things are brought up and people shout 57 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: them from the rooftops when something like this happens is 58 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: because we're also scared, like, oh my god, who's on 59 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: the loose? Why did this happen to her? And then 60 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: we have a simple people people believe that we have 61 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: a simple reason. Oh that's why it happened to her, 62 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: and if I don't, if I don't behave that way, 63 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: then that won't happen to me. Yeah. Well, I think 64 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: a lot of times women just get judged or everything 65 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: they do. Yes, but that aside, You're right, I think 66 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: it gives us everybody else other than the victim, a 67 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: false sense of complacency and safety because we think, oh, 68 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: I wouldn't do filling the blank, go jogging at night, 69 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: I go to my car in a parking deck after midnight, 70 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: go out to a bar alone, have an affair with 71 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: the handyman. You know, you're feeling the blank to make 72 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: yourself feel better like it won't happen to you. But 73 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: that is certainly no guarantee. So back to you, Stephanie 74 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: pago Us with Fox, thank you for leading this as 75 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: it should be. A mother of two, a mother of 76 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: two slaughtered in her own home. Now, I was asking 77 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: you who this guy is, and did I hear you say, correctly, 78 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: Stephanie Pagotus, that he does not have an unsealed criminal records. Well, 79 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: so that's correct, meaning though that if he does have 80 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: a criminal history, it would be sealed, and in that case, 81 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: police would not be able to discuss it or even 82 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: acknowledge its existence. Is he a Mexican national? So we're 83 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: still waiting hereback from law enforcement officers regarding his immigration status. 84 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: But police do say he moved here from Mexico twenty 85 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: one years ago. We've also heard from people in the 86 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: neighborhood that he has two children. I believe they're actually 87 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: grown now, and he was married before this. Okay, wait 88 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: a minute, we can't determine whether he's in this country legally. 89 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: I don't think it's that we can, it's that no 90 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: one has yet been willing to speak about it. I 91 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: believe every every time police have been questioned about this, 92 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: they say they can't answer the question. Our inquiry with 93 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: ICE is currently pending. And Gano, if I wanted to 94 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: find out if you were in this country legally, I 95 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: could very quickly, very quickly get you a copy of 96 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: your birth certificate. Yes, no, maybe I think you could. 97 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: You know, I think the police investigating this are probably 98 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: working to make that determination. Yeah. I don't know that 99 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: it's completely relevant to their investigation right now, but I 100 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: think ultimately they're going to want to find that out. Well, 101 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: I think it's very relevant. I think it's very relevant 102 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: because if he has a criminal history back home in Mexico, 103 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: I'd like to know about it. That said, I want 104 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: to go back, but I take your point. Your point 105 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: is well taken back to you, Stephanie forgott is how 106 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: did this whole thing go down? Stephanie So More details 107 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: actually came out yesterday during a police press conference in Queens. 108 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 1: Police day or Solia went to a show at Lincoln 109 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: Center in Manhattan and returned to Queens around eleven twenty 110 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: pm last night. She then went to a restaurant. She 111 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: returned home at twelve to twenty pm, and about ten 112 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: to twenty minutes later, prosecutors said she led mister Benola 113 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: into her home. There had originally been questioned as to 114 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: whether she let him in or if he used a 115 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: key that had been hidden in the barbecue. Now the 116 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: prosecutors says she let him in. They then go down 117 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: to the basement of the home. Her son was upstairs. 118 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: I want I hate to interrupt your incredible stream of facts, 119 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: but I want to point out something to Mona Ka. 120 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: Probably an investigator joining us from Mona k investigations in Omaha, Mona. 121 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: Think about it. She's got her son at home. Her 122 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: young son, young one, Leo, is thirteen. The older one, Jamie, 123 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: is seventeen, off on the college tour with his dad. 124 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: Think about this, Mona. It's this really ritzy neighborhood and 125 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: they're in Forest Hills. It's really pretty. I've driven through 126 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: it a couple of times. It looks like a storybook. 127 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: When you drive around in Forest Hills, it looks like 128 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: it's out of a magazine or a storybook setting. Think 129 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: about it. It's mid after midnight and you got this 130 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: guy uninvited. She's not gonna invite her former lover over 131 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: at night with her son home. I can promise you 132 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: that I don't know her, I've never met her, but 133 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: I can tell you that much. So he shows up, 134 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: and what do you think? What should she do? Let 135 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: him start screaming and causing a ruckus, or just say okay, kay, 136 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: you can come in ten minutes, we're gonna talk. I 137 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: would have I don't know what I would have done, 138 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: but I understand, Okay, why she let him in so 139 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: he wouldn't create a scene. Wake up neighbors and wake 140 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: up her son, for Pete's sake, Mona right, I agree. 141 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: I mean she probably wanted to keep things. Come talk 142 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: to him, just pacify him, you know, for a short time. 143 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: And like he said, ask him to leave, repeatedly ask 144 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: him to leave. But Mona Que, she drew the line. 145 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: He wanted to and I'm putting perfect around the big 146 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: right here. He wanted to rekindle their relationship, in other words, 147 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: have sex. Right, That's what I think. That is what 148 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: I think. And I'm sure Matthew Menjeina is going to 149 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: tell me how wrong I am. But he's a man. 150 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: He wants to rekindle their what their marriage, no, their 151 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: sex affair, and she said no, and he stabbed her dad. Right, 152 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: What do you think about that, Monique? It was a rejection. 153 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: You know, he couldn't take the rejection. He was obsessed. 154 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: He wasn't going to leave, you know, with her telling 155 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: the and she said that obsessed to show up after 156 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: midnight when a mother is time with her child alone 157 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: in the home and he comes over uninvited and tries 158 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: to restart their sex affair, I would call that obsessed. 159 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: That's a very good word. Mountiquet, Well, I think I 160 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: think he had a pattern. He stalked and women breast 161 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: at a nearby Starbucks near his home. Also, he frequented 162 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: the place several times a week. He left messages in 163 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: the tip jar he proposed to a couple of the employees. 164 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: Um I read that they filed police reports. They wanted 165 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: they wanted to keep the guy away from Starbucks. Oh, 166 00:10:44,559 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: this poor woman. Time stories with Nancy Grace. This poor woman. 167 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: Stephanie Pegona is joining me from Fox. She got entangled 168 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: with a freak and then she couldn't get rid of him. 169 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: Everything you reported about her movements that evening, Stephanie Pegona 170 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: is absolutely correct. You're backed up totally by the NYPD 171 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: Chief of Detectives, James Sig. Listen to what he's got 172 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: to say. On Friday night, April fifteenth, mithscal attends a 173 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: show at Lincoln Center. She takes the train back to 174 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: her neighborhood in Forest Hills at eleven twenty pm. She 175 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: stops in a local establishment for a short while before 176 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: returning home. We believe she returns home at twelve to 177 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: twenty am. You are hearing the Chief of Detectives, James Sig. 178 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: Take a listen to what he says. Next on Friday 179 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: Night Am. Mister Bonella is a handyman who was employed 180 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: by Missus Gall. They have been having an intimate affair 181 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: for approximately two years. He is either lead involuntarily or 182 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: he uses a key he has knowledge about hidden in 183 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: the barbecue. A heated argument ensues between the two in 184 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: the basement, a knife is brandished. A violent struggle ensues, 185 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: resulting in our victim being stabbed ruthlessly and brutally in 186 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: access of fifty five times, causing her demise. The Chief 187 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: of Detectives, James Si goes on to state that the 188 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: Duffel bag was found in the home by the by 189 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: the killer, and he dragged her body at the Metropolitan 190 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: Avenue at Jackie Robinson Parkway. Question to you, Stephanie Pagonus, 191 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: it's my understanding. And there's a beautiful park forest near 192 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: her home and he lived on the other side of it, correct, 193 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: So was this going toward his home where he just 194 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: left the body? So it does appear that way, Yes, 195 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: it appears that he would have walked these zero point 196 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: seven miles from her Juno Street home to that intersection 197 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: Metropolitan Avenue and Jackie Robinson Parkway. That would have been 198 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: directly on the way to his own home. If he 199 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: had chosen to walk that night, didn't he live in 200 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: Richmond Hills, That is correct. Okay, So if he were 201 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: walking home and I was hung up for the longest 202 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: time because the killer did not dispose of her body 203 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: in a vehicle, and I repeatedly said, well, what did 204 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: he do? Walk there? Yes, that's exactly what he did 205 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: to Doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the entire state 206 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: of Florida. You can find him at pathcaremed dot com, lecturer, 207 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: University of Florida Medical School, founder, and the International Forensic 208 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: Medicine Death Investigation Conference. All they talk about is death 209 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: investigations for days on and it's like a brain trust 210 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: of medical examiners and investigators. Doctor Gallagher, thank you for 211 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: being with us. I want to talk to you about 212 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: this frenzied attack. We're hearing fifty, we're hearing fifty five. 213 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: I think it's very difficult to tell. I learned that 214 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: from the Jodi Arias case, where she stabbed her lover, 215 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: Travis Alexander about thirty times and shot him in the head. 216 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: The stab wounds were overlapping each other, and since human 217 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: flesh obviously is movable and flexible. It's hard to tell 218 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: really how many stab wounds there are, but we know 219 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: of fifty five. What's curious to me is when you 220 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: see him wheeling her body down the street, he looks 221 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: perfectly calm. Well, true, Nancy, is very difficult to get 222 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: the exact amount of stab wounds in a body, but 223 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, once you go past a certain number, you know, 224 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: that exact number becomes less and less relevant. Um. You know, 225 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: we can see that she's been stabbed multiple times. Generally, 226 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: this is a person who has done it in a 227 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: fit of rage. This is a person who's done it, 228 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: who who's of altered mental status, who's not or we 229 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: say noncompassmentus, who is not in their right mind? Um. So, 230 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: these people generally have a tremendous amount of strength that 231 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: they exert all at once during the assault, to the 232 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: point where they actually slice themselves. They harm themselves with 233 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: the knife, but it doesn't slow them down. They continue 234 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: to stab. When you stab somebody with the knife, the 235 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: blood and the bodily fluids get on the handle of 236 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: the knife, and the person who's holding it loses grip 237 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: when they when they stab somebody and that knife actually 238 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: slices their own hand, but it doesn't stop them. So 239 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: they are filled with rage. They feel no pain, and 240 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: they are expending all of these energies. And then after 241 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: the assault, their energy is expended, so they return to 242 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: a calm state. And then that's what you see in 243 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: his public persona as he's walking down the street. He 244 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: can't be excited. He what was your last seen? Sorry? Right, 245 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: he cannot be excited anymore. His adrenaline is spent, his 246 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: rage is spent. So all he has to do now 247 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: is all The only thing that he has energy to 248 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: do now is walk calmly. And that's what was observed 249 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: after the attack. So he's exhausted after the frenzy attack. 250 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: I've got to tell you something, doctor, I've been around 251 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: on many schizophrenics that were charged with crimes, well, murders. 252 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: They are all charged with murders, the ones that I 253 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: dealt with, and it's very scary. Victims have told me 254 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: to be alone with them when they are in one 255 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: of these rages and other rage attacks. It's almost as 256 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: if the person they're not legally insane, but they've gone 257 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: wild and you can't reason with them, you can't stop them, 258 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if that is what this beautiful mom 259 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: of two encountered when she refused to rekindle her relationship 260 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:35,719 Speaker 1: with the handyman. You mentioned that very often the attacker 261 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: will get wounded. Isn't it true, Stephanie Pogonis that this 262 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: killer cut himself very seriously. He first went to city 263 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: clinic like a doc in the box. Sorry about that phrase, 264 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher. You know they were met first. Then they 265 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: sent him onto Bellevue Hospital. He needed to go to 266 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: the hospital where he was treated and released. That's correct. 267 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: He police were able to confirm that he went to 268 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: a local area hospital to have injuries to both his 269 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: hands treated, and in later surveillance footage that police later released, 270 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: you can see him walking down the street with at 271 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: least one hand bandaged up completely. So, yes, he also 272 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: incurred injuries amid all of this. But this is Matt 273 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's clear that he didn't go 274 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: there with the intent to kill. The weapon that he 275 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: used was was a kitchen knife. They argued. They went 276 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: into the basement, probably involuntarily because he had taken a 277 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: knife from the kitchen, and then he goes into this rink, 278 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: so he has some diminished capacity in this case, mays, 279 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: I was just waiting for the BS to come out. 280 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: And there it is right, because rage insanity make I 281 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: can just gun you down when you get off of 282 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: this program and go oh, I was angry because he 283 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: disagreed with me. That's not a defense under the law. 284 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: And let me remind you, Matthew Mengino, not that you 285 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: need reminding. I mean you're a veteran trial lawyer, former 286 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: district attorney Lawrence County, Foreign Parole Board member, author of 287 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: the Executioner's Toll. It goes on and on, Matthew Mangina. 288 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: Let's not mislead the listeners to think that premeditation under 289 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: the law requires a long drawn out scheme, such as 290 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: poisoning someone over a period of weeks and months, or 291 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: planning or lying in wait. Premeditation, as a matter of fact, 292 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: can be formed in the blink of an eye. The 293 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: time it takes to pick up a knife, pull it 294 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: back and stab that is long enough under the law 295 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: to form premeditation or intent. So here he stabbed or 296 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: fifty five times, he had plenty of time to form premeditation. 297 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: There's no question you're right. I mean, he used a 298 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: weapon on a vital part of her body, which is 299 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: all you need to prove first degree murder. But we're 300 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: not talking about insanity where he doesn't know the difference 301 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: between right and wrong, which could be a defense. But 302 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: we're talking about the mini's capacity is his responsibility because 303 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: he's po She want to have sex with him, with 304 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: her son and right above them. That ain't gonna work, me, Gie, 305 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: Now you got to try better than that. He shows 306 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: up after midnight. He wants to have sex with her, 307 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: rekindle their relationship, if you could call that. She's married 308 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: with children, he's got children. What else is it? She 309 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: says no, and he starts stabbing her. Wouldn't you agree, 310 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher, that there's a very strong possibility many of 311 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: these stab wounds are post mortem. She couldn't have lived 312 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: through fifty five stab wounds. She was dead and he 313 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: kept stabbing her. That's true, Nancy. And a couple of 314 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: things that we do see is not all, not all 315 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: the stab wounds on some of these victims go entirely 316 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: through their body. These are wounds that are taunting you there. 317 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: Sometimes the killer will taunted the victim with a couple 318 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: of superficial stabs, and then the stabs will get deeper 319 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: and deeper and deeper, you know, until the injury becomes fatal. 320 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: Why can you tell me? Straight back out to Stephanie Pogonis, 321 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: what can you tell me about the possibility or saw 322 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: you a Gale could have tipped off investigators as to 323 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: her killer. She posted a note on her fridge in 324 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:41,479 Speaker 1: all caps, get a new handy man. You know, police 325 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: have been scarce in what they are releasing outside of 326 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: press conferences, but information like that, information like concerns about 327 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: someone or nine one one calls place to the home 328 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: or something they would have record of, and details like 329 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: that will likely come out in future court hearing mister 330 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: Benola's back court on April twenty six, or even when 331 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: he ultimately goes to trial for this, if he does 332 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: ultimately choose to plead not guilty, Doctor Gallagher, can you 333 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: rephrase something? I want to make sure Matthew Mangina heard this, 334 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: and then I'll ask doctor Auntie Arnoll about it. I believe, 335 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: of course you're or the MD. I'm just a JD. 336 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: There's no way she could survived fifty five stab wounds 337 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: all to her torso, her face, her chest, so some 338 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: of the stabbings were after she's dead, after she's down 339 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: on the ground, right, I mean that would most likely 340 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: be the case. It's going to take a very long 341 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: time to complete fifty five stab wounds, and in that 342 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: period of time, they would most likely have died from 343 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: the wounds that were done earlier. So I would believe, yes, 344 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: that a lot of the stab wounds could have been 345 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: after she had died, and a medical examiner doing a 346 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: complete autopsy would be able to identify which ones which 347 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: stab wounds she received when she was alive and which 348 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: tab wounds she received after she had expired. Because the 349 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: stab wounds post mortem after death would not have bled, 350 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: there would not be any hemorrhaginy around them, that is correct, right. 351 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: The heart would stop beating, there would be no blood 352 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: pressure to push the blood through the wound, so there 353 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: would be no bleeding from that wound. Okay, Matthew Man, Gina, 354 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: you're talking about how he was in a rage and 355 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: the minist capacity he's got her down on the ground 356 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: after she refuses sex with him still stabbing this mom 357 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: of two with one of her boys one floor up. Now, 358 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: what were you saying? What could your possible defense be again. 359 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: You know, I think that further emphasizes the rage that 360 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: he's out of his mind. Yeah, that he has this 361 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: diminished capacity, this altered state of mind. He's just in 362 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: a rage. He doesn't really know what he's doing. He's 363 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: just acting out in this region, and I think acting out. Gee, 364 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: I think of the Kidnergartener when you say acting out, 365 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: maybe throwing themselves on the ground and kicking and screaming. 366 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: I think it was John David did that one time. 367 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: I just looked at him and walked off. It worked. 368 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: This is far from acting out. This is an evil, brutal, 369 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: vicious homicide of a defenseless, unarmed woman, and now with 370 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: her son to grow up knowing I was home and 371 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: I didn't save my mother. It's my fault. What about 372 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: that doctor, Angie, That poor child. I mean, he's going 373 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: to have to be in therapy for the rest of 374 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: his life. I can't even you know, I'm sure everybody's asking, 375 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: how didn't you hear this? Well, my kids have earbuds 376 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: in all the time. I don't know about your kids. 377 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: I could be standing in the kitchen talking to them 378 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: and they don't hear me. Well, you're right, I was. 379 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: I was questioning what happened that the sun didn't hear anything. 380 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: He's up on the second floor. She's in the abasement 381 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: and he's and he's blaring some music, playing a video 382 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: or asleep. Oh, I just had another idea. Hold on, 383 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: I'm coming right back to you. Stephanie Peguan is joining 384 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: us from Fox. Matthew Mangino not in his right mind. 385 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 1: He didn't picked up her cell phone, put in her code, 386 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: or held it up to her face evil to get 387 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: in and sent her husband a threatening text and made 388 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: up some crazy story. Your wife put me in jail 389 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: some years ago, and now I'm back. Don't call police. 390 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: Your whole family's next. He's crazy like a fox. This 391 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: guy's not crazy or diminished capacity. He thought about staging 392 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: the scene, and he did stage the scene, including that 393 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: threatening text to the dad. Yeah. I think the word 394 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: you use is crazy, and I think that feeds into 395 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: this whole situation. I mean, that's not that's not the 396 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: normal conduct of a person who's in a in a 397 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: m in the right frame of mind. That he's in 398 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: a complete panic now, which you know is a result 399 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: of this rage that he just inflicted on the Yeah, 400 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: he's in a panic because he's trying to cover up 401 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: a murder that he just did, a horribly bloody murder, 402 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: I mean, Stephanie Pogonis joining us from Fox. The police 403 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: found damning evidence at the same including a pair of 404 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: his boots soaked in blood. That's correct. Not only did 405 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: they find these boots that were soaked in blood, like 406 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: you said, but they also found a jacket that was 407 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: soaked in blood. They found tissues i believe at a 408 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: nearby park, and and they found a trail of blood 409 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: leaving leading from the home to the scene where the 410 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: body was discovered in double bag more or less ditched 411 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: along the sidewalk there. So he has quite a bit 412 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: of evidence that he has left behind, whether knowingly or unknowingly. 413 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: He left the knife as you discussed, at the crime 414 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: scene that matches the other knives used in the home there, 415 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: and he ultimately confessed to many of these crimes, including 416 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,479 Speaker 1: leaving this text message that ended up being completely bogus. 417 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting that you just said so many things, 418 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: Stephanie Pagoni's joining us from Fox. And earlier, Matthew Mangino, 419 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyer, stated that this guy David Benola had 420 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: to get the knife out of the kitchen and then 421 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: take it down to the basement, walking down with a 422 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: knife in his hand that he used to murder or 423 00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: saw you Think about that for a moment. Think about that, 424 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: mona Que, those steps. If I was prosecuting this case, 425 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: I would go down every step for the jury with 426 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: him holding the knife, every step leading him closer to murder, 427 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: a vicious and brutal murder of a defenseless, unarmed woman. 428 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: That was time to ponder and think about what he 429 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: was about to do. Mona Right, And we don't know 430 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: how many times he had approached her before this night, 431 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: if he had been calling her, following her, if he 432 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: had tried to, you know, have sex with her, you know, 433 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: before this night, he maybe knew that there was a 434 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: possibility he was going to be rejected, but he was 435 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: going to try. He was going to keep trying. You 436 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: know what I learned researching the case, Stephanie Paganis, is 437 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: that he has an odd obsession with the guns and 438 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: roses guitarist slash Yes, and he also looks you know 439 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: quite similar interestingly, mean the hair, Yeah, he's got he's 440 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: got quite a distinct appearance. You know, even neighbors in 441 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: the area said they knew him as being not only 442 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: a night owl, but someone who always was either playing music, 443 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: talking about music, or was carrying around his guitar, whether 444 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: it was around his back or in an instrument bag 445 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: of some kind. So not only does the appearance seem 446 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: quite similar, but he really had quite the interest in music, 447 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: according to neighbors who and people who lived or worked nearby. 448 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: You know what's another interesting fact to me about how 449 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: the knife was recovered at the crime scene. But the 450 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: fact that does everybody remember how could you ever forget 451 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson? Remember him when he would go back over 452 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: and over and over back to San Francisco Bay, looking 453 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: out over the water as if he expected to see 454 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: Lacy's body or the body of their unborn son, Connor, 455 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: pop up in the water. Maybe he was scouring the 456 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: beach at a distance to see if their bodies had 457 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: washed up on shore. But wouldn't you agree, doctor Angela Arnold, 458 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: that very often we see criminals returning to the scene 459 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: over and over. I don't understand why. Well I don't 460 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: really understand why either, Nancy, But there has to be 461 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: a curiosity inside of them and maybe they're perhaps they're 462 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: reliving the event. Perhaps they're looking for signs of evidence 463 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: that hasn't been found. And I truly agree with you 464 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: about Scott Peterson probably going out there and seeing if 465 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: Lacy's body was going to float up, and maybe, you know, Nancy, 466 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: maybe it also gives them some sort of some sort 467 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: of sense of something, having known that they've gotten rid 468 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: of that person, and so they revisit it and relive it. 469 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: You know what I'm wondering, Nancy, I'm wondering if this 470 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: man had been you know, she had been trying to 471 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: get rid of him, right, and she had cut things off, 472 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: and then I'm wondering if someone else had rejected him. Also, well, 473 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: you heard earlier that he had been hitting on the 474 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: baristas the Starbucks and went to exactly and maybe he, 475 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: you know, he entered her house and took all of 476 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: this out on her. I imagine that will come out 477 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace, Stephanie Pogonus. The police had 478 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: been looking for him to talk to him. I don't 479 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: know if they were tipped off by the note she 480 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: left to herself get a new handyman and all cats 481 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: on our fridge. I don't know if that tipped them off, 482 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: or if they were looking for people that had a 483 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: key or knew about the very extensive and sophisticated alarm 484 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: system in the home. But they were looking for him. 485 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: But the way that they spotted him goes back to 486 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: what I was saying about Scott Paterson. Yes, that is 487 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: absolutely correct. Explained. So police were actually canvassing the area 488 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: around the crime scene when they actually spotted him, he 489 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: willingly went with them to be interviewed, and that's how 490 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: things unfolded here where he began to incriminate himself and 491 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: ultimately confessed to one or all of the crime, according 492 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: to police. And so that's how all of this unfolded. 493 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: Days after the murder, the odd thing is that the 494 00:32:54,840 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: cops were out canvassing the neighborhood looking for more video surveillance, 495 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: in other words, people's home security systems, their ring doorbells 496 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: or devices like ring doorbells, anything anyone would have had. 497 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you could get video of this nature even 498 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: from a public bus when the doors open. We saw 499 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: that in the Connecticut missing mom of five Jennifer Dulos, 500 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: police put together based on ring doorbells traffic light cams, 501 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: home security and even a bus. When the doors open 502 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: on the public bus, you see Dulos's cargo by the 503 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: husband Photus Dulos. They put together his exact movements following 504 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: and around the time of her murder. So here the 505 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: cops are out trying to get more surveillance video of 506 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: any nature that they can find in the neighborhood and 507 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: they look over near where her body was found in 508 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: the suitcase and lo and behole there he is. There's 509 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: David Banola standing there back at the saint where he 510 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: left her body. What about it? And Gino, well, I 511 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: think that you know, the police did a nice job 512 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:25,439 Speaker 1: in investigating this. Obviously we didn't know as in terms 513 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: of the public what they were doing, but they they 514 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: had a beat on on bo right right from the start. 515 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: They went and retrieved garbage that he had left on 516 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: the curb, which resulted in finding the bloody boots. They 517 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: were able to retrieve his jacket and bandages that he 518 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: used to treat his own wounds. So the police, you know, 519 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 1: did a very good job in a very short period 520 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: of time, and that's why we have a confession and 521 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: an arrested. Okay, see I like the way you did. 522 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 1: He completely skirted my question, and my question was about 523 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: him returning back to the same which I find to 524 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: be very very damning. I'll take listen twenty again. This 525 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: is the chief of Detective is James Essig. Last night, 526 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: while detectives were canvassing for video, they observed a mail 527 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: who was wanted for questioning in a horrendous homicide. He 528 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: voluntarily came back to the one twelfth precinct and made 529 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: incriminating statements. Today, that mail, David Bonola, Mail, forty four 530 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: years old, residing at one O four eighteen one hundred 531 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: and fourteen Street in Queens, New York, is being charged 532 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: with murdering the second degree, criminal tampering in the first degree, 533 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: and criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree 534 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: in relation to the death of Ossolda Gal female fifty 535 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: one years old. You know, do you, Stephanie mcgannis. Very 536 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: often when you're dealing with New York and some of 537 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: the jurisdictions law, it said, well, why not murder in 538 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: the first degree, murder in the second In New York, 539 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: it's very similar to other jurisdictions. Murder in the first, 540 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: first degree, murder in New York, murder one can refer 541 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: to murdering, for instance, a cop, a peace officer, a 542 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: government worker. It could be someone that is incarcerated already 543 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: and then they murder the warden. So it really focuses 544 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: a good bit murder one in New York on who 545 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: the victim is. But the penalty for murder one and 546 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: murder two in New York is the same, about twenty 547 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: five to life, right, that's correct. He faces twenty five 548 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: to life. It's convicted on the highest charge, But on 549 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: top of that, he has those two other charges, criminal 550 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: possession of a weapon and tampering with physical evidence, so 551 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: he likely faces more time than that if convicted on 552 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: those other charges on top of the murder in the 553 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: second degree. Interesting, I know what tampering with evidence would be, 554 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 1: moving the body, getting rid of evidence, trying to hide 555 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: the murder weapon. But what about criminal possession of a weapon. 556 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: Does that mean he had a weapon that he used 557 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: for a crime or is there some reason it was 558 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: a crime for him to even have a weapon. So 559 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: it's my understanding in my years of doing this, that 560 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: the criminal possession of a weapon charge refers to his 561 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 1: use of the knife as a weapon to commit a 562 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: crime in this case, So, like you said, he went 563 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: into the kitchen. Police believe he used the knife from 564 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: the kitchen and he used that knife in the commission 565 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: of this murder of Ursulia Gaul. Doctor Angie Arnold, I 566 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: just hate that not only are the boys losing their 567 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: mother for the rest of their life, they're going to 568 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:03,240 Speaker 1: have their mother's repute patient dragged through the mind because 569 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: her affair with her killer is going to be forever 570 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: linked to her name. I mean, you're not going to 571 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: be able to pull her name up on Google without 572 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: that popping up. And it seems to obscure all that 573 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: she did carrying them, giving birth, going through labor, taking 574 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: care of them, getting them to school, mentoring them, all 575 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: the love she poured into her boys their whole lives 576 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: that seems to be overshadowed by this one thing. Well, 577 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: it's a shame, Nancy, because it is overshadowed by this. 578 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: And I have to wonder if the children felt some 579 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: sort of sense of abandonment of her by her when 580 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: this affair was going on. You can't be completely completely 581 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: focused on your family if you're having an affair with someone. 582 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: We've we've also determined that the family was apparently in 583 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: some sort of family therapy because they were all seeing 584 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 1: the same doctor. So you have to wonder if there 585 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: were already troubles anyway. I just hate it for the boys. 586 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: I hate it for the husband. Well, I hate the 587 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: whole thing for them, Nancy, because what if they what 588 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: if they had of course that their mother was having 589 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: an affair, and now she's been murdered, and now they 590 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 1: have to go through all of the steps. They're going 591 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: to be angry with her. They're going to be so 592 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: angry with her, They're going to be so many they're 593 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: going to be sad that she's gone. There are there 594 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: are very specific steps that they will go through. I mean, 595 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: the little boy is just thirteen. My my twins are fourteen. 596 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: I can't imagine God forbid leaving them at this young age. Well, 597 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: and that being said, it's that it's that thirteen year 598 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: old brain that lost his mother. And that's what a 599 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,399 Speaker 1: therapist will always have to work with. It's a very 600 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: it's a very underdeveloped brain that has that has to 601 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: be that has deal with this. He's been completely abandoned 602 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: by his mother now and she was murdered. The killer 603 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: is said to be back in court, we believe around 604 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: April twenty six. We wait as justice unfolds Nancy Grace 605 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: Crimes story, signing off goodbye friend,