WEBVTT - How The New York Times Backed An Anti-Trans Liar 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:09.320 It. It could happen here. It's the podcast that's called it 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.239 Could Happen Here. Things fall apart and put them back 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.640 together again, etcetera, et cetera. We're slightly rushing this intro 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.400 because Garrison had to leave in like ten minutes, not 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:22.880 ten minutes. But yeah, yeah, so we've spent a lot 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.800 of time covering the sort of various aspects of the 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.440 transgend aside we haven't The aspect of the angle we 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:32.159 haven't covered that much is The New York Times. And 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.800 partially that's my fault because if I every time I've 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:37.760 tried to write something about New York Times, it's devolved 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:40.319 into about seven hours and be reading every single time 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.440 The New York Times wrote an article that was pro Hitler. 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.680 So you know, it's it's difficult to be what you 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.720 would describe is reasonably objective when you're talking about these 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.760 people and not just start yelling about the Iraq War. However, 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.160 coma other people have done a very very good job 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.320 about this, and things have developed in the sort of 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:05.480 world of the New York Times printing just incredibly bizarre 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:11.880 transphobic articles and to talk about one of these things, 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.840 and some developments on one of their stories. We are 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.160 talking to Evan erk Hard of Assigned Media, who has 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:23.840 published a very very good story about some real nonsense 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.600 that The New York Times in their journalists have gotten 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:28.680 up to. So Fa, welcome to the show. 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:31.479 Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm always glad to talk 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:32.200 about nonsense. 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.440 Yeah, it's been it's it's been a real time. Also 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:42.880 here is Garrison. Yeah. So I guess, okay, I think 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.880 the place to start with this is getting people caught 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.320 up with the incredibly bizarre story of Jamie Reid. So 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.720 I guess I wanted to start there. Can you talk 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.480 a little bit about who Jamie Reid is and how 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:56.520 the New York Times and a bunch of other very 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.840 less reputable somehow newspaper has got involved with this. 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.760 Yeah, so, I mean there are certainly reputable newspapers that 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:09.440 have looked into the allegations of former gender clinic staff 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:16.040 member in Saint Louis, Jamie Reid, and those organizations, including 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:21.200 local papers, have found that her allegations didn't hold up. 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:23.960 This was. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.600 Months ago, kind of the beginning of the year. I 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:31.840 believe she kind of came forward with great fanfare and 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:38.640 an alliance defending freedom lawyer and said that the gender 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:43.160 clinic she once worked at was harming children. They weren't 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.840 engaging in informed consent. They were pressuring parents to go 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:53.000 along with these harmful treatments, horrifying stuff that if true, 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:59.000 would be just a major major scandal if true, and 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:04.079 the allegations all part pretty quickly. Numerous parents and patients 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.960 came back, came, you know, forward saying this is nothing 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:11.480 like what we've experienced. Some of that was pretty directly 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:15.120 refuting things that she said, such as, you know, kids 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.840 never got any therapy. They just saw a therapist for 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.040 an hour and an undercanologist for an hour and were immediately. 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:22.960 Approved for hormones. 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.280 And so people came forward saying I did six months 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:26.880 of therapy, I did nine months of therapy. 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.960 I wish you could do that. Like no, like right. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:37.720 I mean, it was very wild and very discredited. And 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:42.240 then for some reason, apparently back in May, as En 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.640 Graaschi of the New York Times started looking into this story, 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.400 and she didn't find anything different. I mean, if you 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.760 look at her reporting, if anything, she found even more 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.320 evidence that Jamie Reid is not accurate and not on 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.200 the up and up. But the story that she came 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.080 out with is really really weird. 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.160 And I think the thing, the thing that that is 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.720 the most at least before before the most recent round 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:12.680 of incredibly bizarre stuff, The thing that's the most infuriating 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.120 to me about the sort of Jamie Reid's story is. 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.800 That the thing that had come out by the time 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:20.560 The New York Times was writing about it was that 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.760 it looked a lot like if you look at the 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:26.760 stuff that Jamie Reid had been doing and people talking 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:28.800 about their experiences with her, it looked like she was 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:33.040 trying to sabotage kids getting healthcare because she personally didn't 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:33.680 believe in it. 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.919 I talked to a parent, a parent who was also 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.560 talked to by The New York Times, who had really 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.479 just wanted like an educational visit for her like eight 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.760 year old, and Jamie Reid said, we can't do anything 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:48.160 for you. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:50.280 Sorry. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.000 Uh, you know, we can only bring you in if 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.240 your child is an adolescent ready to go on hormone therapy. 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.560 And so after the allegations came out, this parent got 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.920 in touch with the clinic Jamie Reid had left, and 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:04.400 they were like, what are you talking about. We do 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:06.160 educational appointments all the time. 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:06.600 Come in. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.880 They spent you know, almost two hours talking to the 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.479 family about the different you know, medical possibilities in the 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.559 far future and just you know, trying to help educate 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.240 the kid about their body and their options years and 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:19.760 years before they never need anything. 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.520 Yeah, which is really infuriating because like the actual story 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.840 here is that you know, even even clinics that are 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.560 like trying to do the right thing wind up with 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:34.480 just incredibly deranged CIS people who basically can at every 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.840 point in the process act as a gatekeeper and decide 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.159 that like you don't get to get treatments, and that's 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.160 awful and is one of them. I mean, you know, 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.839 even even in place, even even in parts of the US, 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.200 at clinics that are good, that is a thing that 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.240 can just happen to you, is you get these sort 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:56.480 of gatekeeper stuff. But instead of doing that, instead of 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.840 again covering the story they had been handed about someone 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.479 trying to keep kids from getting health care. 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:04.200 They did this. 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.440 They you know, this this turned into this like like 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:12.839 full court press against Wait, Gary, you you're right. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.520 I closed my door because the air conditioner is way 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:17.960 too loudly. 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:19.680 There's cats. 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.520 But now the cats start screaming at the door. But 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.520 now I open the door, they and they don't want 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.200 to come in. They're just like all the threshold, just 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.840 like staring at me, like make a choice, come in 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:30.599 on them out. 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:32.840 And I believe we're leaving this in. 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:34.159 This is great content. 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:42.800 They're out, They're gone. They had their chance. They blew it. 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:45.840 Yeah, what happens instead is this is this sort of 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.640 like full court press with a bunch of you know, 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.200 starting in sort of conservative media and then moving into 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.240 sort of liberal media, like using this story as an 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.520 example of like why why we have to like stop 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.239 like we have to shut down clinics and stuff while. 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:07.360 Children's hospitals are getting bomb threats, yeah, constantly, mostly mostly 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.840 due to kind of prodding by ghouls the Daily Wire 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.840 who are hunting for clicks. And yeah, there's also a 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:18.280 big part of this is like this tactic of attacking 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.600 like healthcare centers and clinics proved to be a pretty 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.720 good recipe to go viral. That's what the Daily Wire discovered. 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.200 And that's something that New York Times certainly took notice 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.600 of as well, is that, hey, this is this is 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:36.160 a way to drive a lot of attention towards our website. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.680 That is just another another angle about this, this sort 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.920 of thing, which also, like it leads to real world consequences, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.040 not just in terms of healthcare getting restricted, but also 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.880 like threats of violence against doctors. The right has historically 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.480 been completely willing to carry out acts of violence against 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:57.040 healthcare workers and let alone you know, trying threatening to 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:58.160 bomb a children's hospital. 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.840 Yeah, and the exact allegations were, We're really devastating. 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:04.800 For these families. 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:09.320 I mean, I love to Heidi, who's you know, her 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:15.320 daughter's personal medical history was misrepresented, shared with the world, 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:21.040 shared in a million articles, and used to fuel gender 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.560 firming care bands, you know, I mean that is like 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.840 really damaging for a like seventeen eighteen year old who's 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:29.800 just trying to like live her life in kind of 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:30.720 a conservative town. 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.880 Which also and this is an another aspect of this, 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.440 is like she is sharing the private medical history of 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.400 patients at a clinic, which you are not allowed to do. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.480 That is a which is very funny for people who 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.720 rant about these all of these people all the time. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:51.319 Only we finally got one. 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.440 We finally got an actual hippo violation. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.120 And uh yeah, I. 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.800 Think the Hippa thing has been I mean, you know, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.760 as Zingeration could have gotten that story, I feel, I mean, 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.240 I think it's been really undercovered. My understanding is that 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:09.240 healthcare workers are not supposed to have to share information 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.280 that's identifiable to the patient. And we have a patient 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.320 saying I can tell this was my story. And so 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.000 again I'm not a lawyer, but I think that people 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.120 have underestimated the extent to which real families could look 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:26.840 at these allegations and say, this is me, twisted, distorted, 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.280 used to hurt my family and other families like mine, 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.319 And there's kind of no outrage about that. It's kind 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.440 of this neglected backwater of this story. 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:38.160 Yeah, and I mean, I mean, the thing it reminds 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.400 me the most of is the is the original like 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.160 vaccines cause autism story where you have someone who is 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:50.319 incredibly politically motivated, who is incredibly unreliable, who's demlishrably unreliable, 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.839 who is not someone who's you know, who's someone who 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.160 in the field, Everyone's like, what is going on here? 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.040 This is complete nonsense, who like misrepresents and just straight 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.960 up lies about about like about about their patients. And 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.600 then also it turns out like has abused their patients, 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.240 or in this case is not has abuse of patients, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.439 and in this case case like has successfully like stopped parents 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.800 from being able to talk to the clinic about what 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.800 the options for their kids are. But the media sort 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.160 of doesn't care about that all. All they all they 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.480 see is sort of this story and they they just 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:24.600 sort of latch onto it, and then they spread all 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:26.840 of this stuff and it's like, you know, it reminds 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:28.720 it reminds me a lot of that where like, wait, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.600 we're still dealing with the consequences of just the completely 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:36.080 fake bullshit about like vaccism, vaccines supposedly causing autism, which 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.360 and again like that that's stuffing that never that never 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.120 would have gotten mainstreamed if the media hadn't picked it 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.200 up and ran with it. And yet you know, every 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.520 single time one of these absolute like politically motivated frauds 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.720 like gets up on the stands, like there there's the 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.360 New York Times doing doing their article about it, and 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:55.280 and like. 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.240 This used to be like Glenn Beck's territory, who would 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.800 like bring out like a chocobar didn make like a 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.520 make like a crazy wall with you like yarn and 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:08.240 string and now it's it actually has been relegated to 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.520 the New York Times, the sort of the sort of 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.600 coverage that they're doing over these types of like moral 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.240 panics around healthcare. I think, like if if you look 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.280 at like Fox News twenty years ago, this was the 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.560 type of stuff that they did for a long time 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.440 before it was actually a little bit too insane and 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.880 they had to like fire Glenn Beck, and it's it's this. 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.679 It's the same sort of stuff now that's propagated by 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.120 people like The Daily Wire and then picked up on 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.440 by even more kind of mainstream publications. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.840 I mean, I think what's so insidious about this story 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.120 in particular and some of the other New York Times 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.719 stories is that they represent this as being their deep 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.080 investigative journalism. They represent this as being the finest that 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.840 the Times produces. And here is you know, the mother 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.679 of a trans girl who went to the reporter and said, 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.240 I can prove to you I have medical records, I 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.400 have emails to prove to you that what is in 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:17.600 this allegation is about my family and isn't true. The 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.520 reporter takes that and kind of sticks it in at 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.080 the end, you know, like that it's not lying, but 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:27.040 it is so totally distorting the truth that it feels 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:27.600 like lying. 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:28.959 It feels worse than lying almost. 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.880 Yeah, especially because there's like like thousands of people who 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:33.800 will just read the headline. They're not going to scroll 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:35.600 to the bottom of the thing and read a little 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.080 disclaimer and be like haha, jakay lie. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.680 Not everything that's not good enough. Yeah, and I think 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.800 this gets into the party. So you very recently talked 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.160 to the mother of one of the girls who was 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.480 you know, who who read has been lying about and. 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.760 To three of the parents who who Zine had talked to. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.920 Yeah, and you discovered some very disturbing and incredibly bizarre 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:08.560 stuff that a Zene was doing to get parents to 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.600 stay in the story. After reads and like this was 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.040 in your follow up story, after a bunch of people 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:20.000 came out and were like, Hey, this is like not correct. 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.520 This person has in fact been lying about this. Yeah, 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.760 So you could you go into what you found about this? 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.319 Yeah, it was truly truly bizarre. I mean I going 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.480 in There were some parents that contacted me because they'd 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.280 spoken to a Zene Grayishi and they were really upset 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.040 about the story. And you know, I went into it 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.480 thinking I'm going to do them a favor, I'm going 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.200 to let them feel heard. They feel disappointed about the story. 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:47.719 This kind of happens in journalism. 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.760 I was not expecting what I got. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:56.720 So this parent had been very suspicious of a Zene 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:01.280 because of Azine's previous writing about trans issues, and so 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.199 I think she and her family kind of were very 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.360 cautious and very savvy, and they said, we don't want 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:08.960 to be part of a story that's going to be 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.680 negative on this clinic that we feel saved our daughter's life. 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.520 So you know, I'm willing to talk to you, I'm 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:17.840 willing to give you this information about this person who 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.200 lied about our daughter's history, but if you're going to 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.200 turn that into a hit piece on the clinic. 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:23.520 We don't want to be part of it. 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.600 And A Zene, you know, reassured her, calmed her fears, 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.080 and so you know they were going forward but cautiously. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.600 And then this mother sees a zine at a courthouse 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:40.840 where Jamie Reid was testifying about the allegations in Missouri 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:47.280 and just sees the warm relationship between A Zene and 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.760 Jamie Reid, and she thinks something isn't right here. I 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.160 helped her catch this person in a lie. But they're all, 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.520 you know, buddy, buddy, that seems weird. So she, you know, 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.520 she first went up to Jamie Reid and confronted her. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.520 She said, I'm liver toxicity mom, and you know, she 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.120 again noticed that Jamie Reid is kind of saying how 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:09.680 can I help you? What do you want and like 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.320 looking to a Zine like save me from this crazy person. 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.320 And so that's when the mother said, we're out. We're 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.000 not We're not going to be part of the story. 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:26.120 And a Zene did not take that for answer. Yeah, 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:31.080 it's nuts. She followed them to their car. As they're 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.040 trying to leave, she stood in the car door so 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.480 they couldn't drive away, saying, you know, please keep talking, 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.880 to keep talking. You know, I need I don't know 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:41.680 exactly what she's saying, but like I need you in 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.960 the story. And you know, the mom says, like, no, Zine, 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.400 we're out. Could please step away from the car, and 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.720 they drove away, and then Azine called them and called 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.480 them and they picked up, and a Zine managed to 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.520 convince them to let her come over to their hotel room. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.920 This is the night before the New York Times article published, 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:06.960 and so now Heidi and her husband and Zene are 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.920 in this hotel room and a Zene is going paragraph 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.880 by paragraph telling her everything that's in the story, trying 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:14.840 to convince her that it's not a hit piece on 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.200 the clinic, and the family isn't buying it at all. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.800 The family is like, no, you're describing a hit piece 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:20.400 on the clinic. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.320 Where Yeah, But. 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:26.920 They're left with this horrible, horrible conundrum because if they 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.800 actually pull out of the article, which as far as 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.440 I can tell, they really did have this agreement. Again, 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.440 azine wouldn't talk to me, so like it's a little 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.280 unclear what the agreement was or exactly what's going on here. 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.120 But in the end they decided, you know, there's no 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.760 evidence that this woman lied if we pull out of 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.640 the story. So they felt that they had kind of 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.600 no choice. Even though they felt completely betrayed, completely devastated 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.760 that their story was going to be used in this way, 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:53.920 they felt they had no choice but to stay in. 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:57.880 Yeah, and then like the and the way that like 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.040 it ends, the article like is is basically like the 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.359 article is like completely supportive of Jamie Reid, even though 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.359 again demolishrably in the article she is lying. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:09.080 Such a weird article. 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.520 You find someone's lying, but you're still spending all of 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.159 your words saying, well, so she's say she lied this 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:15.600 one time, but she's basically credible. 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:16.320 Just bizarre. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.399 Yeah, and then you know, and the New York Times 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.439 is response to this is like the piece you're referring 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.840 to was rigorously a reporter and edited and thoughtful and 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.280 sensitive to the moment. The Times stands behind his publication imberservely. 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.520 It's like, well, yeah, of course, of course it meets 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.480 the New York Times like incredibly demanding standards for journalism. 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.080 These are the people who published like these are the 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.880 people who published the yellow Cake Uranium story, like these 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:43.600 people like these people have published things that like a 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.520 a like these are these people have published off about 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.520 the Iraq War that like British tabloids wouldn't publish. So like, yeah, 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.159 it's it's not it's not I don't I don't think 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.600 it's that surprising to me that, like the New York 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.639 Times was like this passion editorial standards. But that's because again, 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:04.280 the New York Times backed Hitler and like deliberately go 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.639 forth the entire country. You're starting a war by straight 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.280 up lying about a bunch of stuff they do was fake. 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.000 Let me take a moment and say, there are a 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.159 lot of reporters who work for the New York Times 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.040 who do really great work, very very occasionally it's even 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.720 about trans issues. But like it is certainly not a 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:26.840 monolith of ridiculous nonsense. It's just all of the good 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.960 work kind of camouflages the ridiculous nonsense and lets them 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.360 get it through when they when they go on a tear, 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.159 when they go on a crusade against you know, against someone. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.680 Yeah, And I mean it's it's they. I don't know, 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:47.760 The New York Times, they they pick, they pick their 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:52.000 moments to get incredibly ideological about this, and then they 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.400 hide behind the more normal reporting they do in order 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.480 to sort of like disguise the fact that again there's 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.720 sort of this person knows that their sources lie, is 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.200 demonstrably lying to them. I just I don't know, it's 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.800 it's the thing that was interesting to me about the 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.239 story too, is that as zen As, someone who up 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:14.080 until this point like seems to it like like from 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:18.840 everything I had been aware of a zine from. 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.560 Asinine did really good me too, reporting. I believe, yeah, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.040 science any commany. 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:27.479 In astronomy, which I like. The thing I don't talk 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.320 about enormously was that I did astronomy for a little bit. 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.800 I didn't do very much astronomy, but there was a 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:34.600 there was a small amount of time where I wanted 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.320 to do astronomy, and so, like I knew a bunch 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.919 of the people like in that scene a zine had 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.679 a very very good rep there as like the person 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.280 you could go to to talk about, like like to 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.560 do a B two story, which makes it even more 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.320 weird that, you know, I guess this is just I 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:55.479 don't know. I'm hesitant to just brush this off as 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.800 sort of like trans brain where like some like a 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.920 sister reporter starts covering trans stuff just completely loses their mind. 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.360 But you know, it's it's a really startling and disturbing 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.400 like shift from this person who had a very very 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.679 good rep on yes, like as someone you could go 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.439 to to, like her standing in someone's car door trying 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.480 to stop a family from driving away because they want 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.280 to because they don't want to be involved in a 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.080 story where she's lying about them. 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.000 Who could have thought that a radical feminist could be 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:28.360 trans exclusionary. 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:35.720 It's just crazy. People are complicated. 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:37.920 It I think has to do with who she feels 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.600 sympathy for, and women in science are maybe people that 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.600 she feel sympathy for and who she or I have 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.199 no idea what reason doesn't And like innocent parents of 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.200 trans youth are apparently people she doesn't really have that 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:52.640 empathy for, have. 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.200 That ability to, or the kids themselves apparently. 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.600 I mean, as a transperson, I never expect a reporter 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:04.120 to for me. But these white parents, these middle class 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.679 white parents, please, you must take them seriously. 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.280 The other thing I think I wanted to talk about 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.720 was the impact that this reporting has had on the 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.280 broader So we we alluded to this a little bit, 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.040 but yeah, I wanted to talk a little bit about 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.000 the way that right wing sort of right wing lawyers, 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.879 like right wing politicians have been using like specifically this 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:44.720 coverage and also sort of like the fear mongering around 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.359 gender clinics as something they're using to support, like health 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:50.880 to support healthcare bands on trans youth. 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:57.119 Yeah, Jamie Read's allegations directly resulted in a ban on 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:02.399 gender affirming care in Missouri. You know, there were families 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:06.320 that were going to the legislature week after week, and 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.640 we're keeping it at bay, and then these allegations came 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:13.520