1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 2: A gorgeous mom heads out to a local hiking trail 3 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 2: she's never seen alive again. At this hour, family distraught 4 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: as police confirm the body of Rachel Mourn has been found. 5 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 3: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 6 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 7 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 2: in series XM one eleven. Take a listen to our 8 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 2: friends at w j Z. 9 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 4: The sheriff said the community came together to search for 10 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 4: thirty seven year old Rachel Mooren when she was reported missing. 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 4: Now he's asking the community to help find the person 12 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 4: responsible for her death. 13 00:00:54,840 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 5: Very a quiet, popular trail in Hartford County now at 14 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 5: the center of a homicide investigation that startled the entire community. 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 2: They set up a command center here, so we figured 16 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: that it was something rather grave that has happened to 17 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: that poor one. 18 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 6: Just after one pm Sunday, someone called them saying they 19 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 6: found a body off the trail. 20 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 7: Well, we firmly believe this is the body of Rachel. 21 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 7: More in that final determination, that final shay belongs with 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 7: the medical examiner, and that has. 23 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 3: Not happened yet. 24 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 6: The sheriff says, investigators have no doubt that this is 25 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 6: a homicide. 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: Guys, you are also hearing our friends at WBAL with 27 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: me an all star panel to make sense of what 28 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,279 Speaker 2: we know right now. Before we go one step further, 29 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: let me go straight out to Vincent Hill, anchor reporter 30 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: for Fox forty five in Baltimore, former police officer and 31 00:01:55,320 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: private investigator, and author of a hit book, Playbook to 32 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: a Murder on Amazon. Vincent, thank you for being with us. 33 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: We are hearing that the police are confirming this is, 34 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: in fact thirty seven year old Rachel Morin mother. She 35 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: is absolutely gorgeous by all accounts, beautiful on the inside 36 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: and out. But I'm interested as a medical examiner has 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: not yet confirmed her death. I'm curious are they identifying 38 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: her by her clothing, tattoo, dental records? Was her face 39 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: still recognizable? How have they identified her if the medical 40 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 2: examiner has not given a firm official identification. 41 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, that's the million dollar question. And Sheriff Gaylor 42 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 8: said to me on Sunday that they are convinced it's 43 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 8: to homicide. They are convinced it's her, and he also 44 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 8: went into how physical and how brutal that crime scene 45 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 8: may have been. She was actually found inside a tunnel 46 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 8: under the mind paw trail, so something has tipped investigators 47 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 8: to believe that that is actually the mother Rachel Morin. 48 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: You know, I'm very curious about how they're doing it, 49 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: how they're making this identification to Doctor Tim Gallagher joining me. 50 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: Renowned medical examiner for the State of Florida. You can 51 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 2: find him at pathcaremed dot com. Lecturer University of Florida 52 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 2: Medical School, Forensic Medicine, and founder of the International Forensic 53 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 2: Medicine Death Investigation Conference. 54 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 3: Doctor Gallagher. 55 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: Before there was a DNA, IDs were made routinely and 56 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: fairly quickly based on what Dr Gallagher well, there. 57 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 9: Were other methods of identifying people. One of them were 58 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 9: dental records, and of course, you know, before DNA there 59 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 9: were a lot of identifications made. There are also a 60 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 9: lot of mistakes made, so DNA has certainly tightened up 61 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 9: that area of identification. But fingerprints are also a good 62 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 9: method of identification. If she is not decomposed, we can 63 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 9: get fingerprints, and there's something called a rapid I D. 64 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 9: If her fingerprints are on file, we can do fingerprints, 65 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 9: send it through the rapid IDs which goes through APIs, 66 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 9: and then then we will be able to identify her 67 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 9: that way. Certainly, tattoos would also come into effect if 68 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 9: she has any medical devices that are on her, any 69 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 9: types of identification such as a pacemaker or other medical devices, 70 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 9: perhaps a breast implants in her case, we can follow 71 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 9: the serial numbers on those and then make a notification 72 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 9: that way. So there are certain there are very many avenues, 73 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 9: dental fingerprints, unique body features if a DNA is not. 74 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: Available, as well as clothing. 75 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 9: Yeah, clothing, yes, Nancy, But you know that's also fraught 76 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 9: with its downside too, because problems. Right, So there are 77 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 9: a lot of clothing that are very similar, you know. 78 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 9: But that certainly is a secondary form of identification that 79 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 9: we can use. 80 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 3: Now you have to ask yourself. Joining me. 81 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: Ron Bateman, former sheriff Arundel County, Maryland, former homicide and 82 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: undercover narcotics officer, author of Silent Blue Tears, Voice of 83 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: the Victims. 84 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 3: Ron, let's just get real for a minute. 85 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: I believe I saw the population of bel Air, which 86 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 2: is about a thirty minute drive from Baltimore, is ten thousand, 87 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: six hundred and sixty one. As I recall, she goes 88 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: hiking on this trail, the matt and Paw Trail. A 89 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: body is found of a blonde female on this trail, 90 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 2: the Mott and Paw Trail. 91 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 3: Who else is it. 92 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 10: Going to be? Well, I can tell you that Cherless Gaylor, 93 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 10: who I know very well, would not stick his neck 94 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 10: out and say with someone else if it was in 95 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 10: fact Rachel. So I'm sure he has beyond convincing evidence 96 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 10: to say in his mind that he feels confident that 97 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 10: it is. 98 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: Rachel speaking of take a listen to what we are 99 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 2: hearing from our friends at WMAR two. 100 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 11: The Belair community is now mourning the death of thirty 101 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 11: seven year old Rachel Moren after her body was found 102 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 11: on Mott and Paw Trail Sunday afternoon. 103 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 12: And something like this should not happen in Harvard County. 104 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 11: Officers say Rachel Morn left her home around six pm 105 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 11: Saturday and went over to the mottin Paw Trail around 106 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 11: eleven pm. Officer say her boyfriend reported her missing, which 107 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 11: is when a search began for Rachel. Just after one 108 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 11: pm Sunday afternoon, police got a call saying a woman's 109 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 11: body was found on the same trail. 110 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,799 Speaker 2: Body found on same trail, and you hear them narrowing 111 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: down the likelihood of suspects, but we don't know that. 112 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: And also we're getting a glimpse into the manner of death. 113 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: Take a listen our cut eighteen. This is Sheriff Jeffrey Galler. 114 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 7: While it was all of our home, certainly mine, and 115 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 7: everyone standing up here with me, and the men and 116 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 7: women of our office and all of our citizens, that 117 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 7: Rachel will be found safe. At about one oh seven PM, 118 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 7: a citizen called nine one one to report a female's 119 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 7: body had been located off the trail. At that time, 120 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 7: it was obvious that this person was deceased. The investigation 121 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 7: was went from a missing person investigation to a homicide investigation. 122 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: Guys, I want to focus on two words we just 123 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: heard from the elected sheriff. Quote it was obvious the 124 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: person was deceased. It immediately goes from missing person to homicide. 125 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: So very clearly, Vincent Hill, this was a violent homicide. 126 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: Quote obvious the person was deceased and the victim of homicide. 127 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: No doubt that there was a suicide, no doubt that 128 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: there wasn't a natural cause of death like heat, exhaustion 129 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: or something akin to that. So, Vincent Hill, you were 130 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: there covering the case when the body was found. What 131 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: more can you tell us about this MA and Paw 132 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: trail and anything else you know about the discovery of 133 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: this female body we believe to meet Rachel Morin. 134 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 8: Yeah, Nancy, So the trail was kind of in the 135 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 8: middle of nowhere in Harford County, And of course, when 136 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 8: you're talking about jogging and hiking trails, there's not a 137 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 8: lot of cameras, but there are a lot of people. Now, 138 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 8: keep in mind, the boyfriend said she went missing or 139 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 8: she went to the trail around six. 140 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 3: O'clock, six pm. 141 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 8: Yeah, correct, And around one oh seven Sunday afternoon, a 142 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 8: female found Rachel's body under a tunnel that goes under 143 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 8: the MA and Paw Trail near high Way twenty four. 144 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 8: And when I pressed the sheriff of sheriff, you've used 145 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 8: the word homicide. How do we know this was not 146 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 8: an accident? He touched on the physicality of Rachel's body 147 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 8: when it was found, So that tells you something grusom happened. 148 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 3: Okay, when you say Vincent Hill, he touched. 149 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: He the sheriff, the elected sheriff touched on the quote physicality, 150 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? By the physicality you mean, 151 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 2: the condition of the body when discovered. 152 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying right? 153 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 8: The share said, well, I won't tell you how investigators 154 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 8: found her physically, but we have no doubt that this 155 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 8: is a homicide. 156 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 10: Is worse. 157 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: Crime stories with me? It's he Greece. 158 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: I want to go to Matthew Mangino, guy's former prosecutor, 159 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: former district attorney in Pennsylvania, author of the executioners, told 160 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: listen to this the crimes, arrest, trials, appeals, last meals. 161 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 2: I would love to read that and final words. Okay, 162 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: who cares what they said after they murdered one or 163 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 2: many more and they got the death penalty? What I 164 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: didn't do it? And executions of forty six persons in 165 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: the US. Matthew Mangino, I've got to agree with the 166 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: sheriff Galler and our current firm sheriff joining US, Ron Bateman. 167 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 2: When you see a murder, you know it's a murder. Okay, 168 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 2: here's a good one. You know, when you're walking along, 169 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: taking a walk, you're walking your dog or whatever, and 170 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: all of a sudden you smell a horrible smell. You know, 171 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: you smell dog poop, or you know you smell an 172 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 2: animal that's been run over. It's immediate, you know, nobody 173 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 2: needs to tell you. It's like when you find a 174 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 2: dead body. You know immediately they're dead and you know 175 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: they've been murdered. There's not really a question in many cases. 176 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 13: All right. And we're talking about you know, experienced law 177 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 13: enforcement officers who have, you know, investigated crimes like this 178 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 13: in the past, so they know it when they when 179 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 13: they see it. And unfortunately, in this situation, I think 180 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 13: her sister said that she didn't go down easy, you know, 181 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 13: so she may have fought for her life and there 182 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 13: would be probably considered considerable amount of bruising an injury 183 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 13: that it would make it apparent by looking at her 184 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 13: that she was deceased and was the victim of a homicide. 185 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, You're right, isn't that right? Vincent 186 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: Hill Vincent joining me from Fox forty five, Baltimore. Vincent 187 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: the sister Rachel Mooreen's sister, who, by the way, has 188 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 2: created a gofundmeate to pay for the funeral expenses for 189 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 2: this mother of five, three girls, two boys, all very young. No, mommy, 190 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 2: let's just let that sink in for a moment, and 191 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: I gotta have a shrink talk about that care and 192 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: start joining me. But Vincent Hill, Rachel's sister was very 193 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: clear that this is Rachel and that she fought for 194 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: her life. 195 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 8: Yeah, Nancy, I mean the family was notified immediately, so 196 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 8: obviously the sheriff's department knew it was Rachel. The family 197 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 8: unfortunately had to go identify Rachel at some point. So, yeah, 198 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 8: she knew it was her sister, and she probably has 199 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 8: to deal with what happened to her sister because bell Air. 200 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 8: You talked about the population, Nancy, I report in Baltimore 201 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 8: and surrounding areas, things like this they just don't happen 202 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 8: in bel Air. You may have a drunk driver, you 203 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 8: may have a domestic violence here and there, but things 204 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 8: like this don't happen in bel Air. 205 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 2: You know, that's an interesting statement. You know, Karen starting 206 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 2: joining me, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma expert and consultant. 207 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 2: You can find her at Karenstark dot com and that's 208 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 2: Karen with a C. Karen, we want to believe this 209 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: can't happen in my neighborhood, I mean at our apartment 210 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 2: in New York. I know it can happen if I 211 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: put one toe out on the street in many rural areas, 212 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 2: people think this cannot happen. I grew up thinking, well, 213 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: I wasn't even thinking about crime because it, as we 214 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: were just hearing, doesn't happen. But no one is immune. 215 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: And here's my example. I will come up with any 216 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: one one day. But the case of dealing is Shasta 217 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: grown knee in Court de Lane, Idaho. If you fly 218 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: over that and I have looked down, there's nothing but green. 219 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 2: Nothing but it looks like a lot of broccoli is 220 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: completely green. They lived there, and some perv drove by 221 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 2: on the interstate and saw Shasta the girl I believe 222 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 2: it was at an above ground pool, and went and 223 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 2: lay in wait for the family to go to sleep, 224 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: then kill the whole family, and took the boy and girl. Ultimately, 225 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: after blesting them over and over and over and over, 226 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: playing these games where you strangle the victim and then 227 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: you bring them back to life, and then you do 228 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 2: it again, the little boy Dylan died and Shasta miraculously 229 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: was saved. But they literally lived in the middle of 230 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: a forest. So no one is a mean Karen Stark. 231 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 14: No one is immune, And unfortunately Nancy. We hear about 232 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 14: stories where there are females who are jogging and somehow 233 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 14: in that situation somebody sees them or follows them and 234 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 14: winds and they wind up being dead. And that's so 235 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 14: frightening because you believe that you should be able to 236 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 14: go out and do whatever it is that you want 237 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 14: to do, and that really is in the case. You 238 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 14: have to be very cautious and aware of what's around you. 239 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 14: And unfortunately somebody took advantage of her. 240 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: They really did. They. 241 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: I don't know if she was sex assaulted yet or not, 242 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 2: but if she was or was not, either way will 243 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: give me more clues as to who the killer was. 244 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: Guy speaking of the tunnel, Seemingly someone had a premonition 245 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 2: she would be found in a tunnel. Now, typically if 246 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: you say you've got a premition about a murder and 247 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: it comes true, you become a suspect. I don't think 248 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: that's true in this case. Take a listen nowur cut 249 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: sixteen from WMAR. 250 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 11: The call came in from Michael Gabbrizeski, who says he 251 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 11: joined the search after hearing about Rachel's disappearance. He says 252 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 11: his daughter was friends with Rachel. He and his daughter 253 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 11: and a friend found Rachel's body in a drain, and. 254 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 12: I kept telling them to search the tunnels because I 255 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 12: had a feeling about those tunnels. And I walked forward 256 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 12: to search the one tunnel, and they searched the one 257 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 12: and that's where they found her. 258 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 11: Michael says the state they found her body in led 259 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 11: him to believe she was murderer. 260 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: So we know who found the body. It's Michael Gabrzeski, 261 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: a friend of the family, and he had a premonition 262 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 2: about these tunnels and felt she may be in a tunnel, 263 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 2: and in fact she was. He says, it's her and 264 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: that she was murdered. Vincent Hill, explain to me about 265 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 2: the tunnels. Let me think of a good example. When 266 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: we were little and we literally lived in the middle 267 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 2: of nowhere on a red dirt road and there was 268 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 2: a giant tunnel, a big pipe, really big, like six 269 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 2: foot circumference, and we could run under there and run 270 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 2: across the road. 271 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 3: But under the road that's a tunnel. 272 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 2: Let's say in Central Park you go under a very 273 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: short tunnel, maybe fifty feet long eighty feet and that 274 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: could be a tunnel, and it's wide enough for a 275 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 2: horse drawn carriage to go through. 276 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 3: That's a tunnel. What are these tunnels? 277 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: Keep hearing about, Vincent, And that leads me to another 278 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 2: line of inquiry, that was she killed in daylight hours, 279 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 2: as someone did it in a tunnel to obscure other 280 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: people's vision. It stays light there well into the evening. 281 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: Now a daylight savings, I mean a lot can be 282 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 2: extrapolated from the location of her being killed in or 283 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 2: near the tunnel. So tell me about the tunnels, Vincent. 284 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 8: Yeah, you described the best, Nancy. It's one of those 285 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 8: tunnels that goes under the highway Highway twenty fours right there. 286 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 8: And from what I've been told by people that live 287 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 8: in the area, they shoot a lot of music videos 288 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 8: in those tunnels. And around one oh seven, when Michael 289 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 8: found the body, his daughter Cecilia actually called nine point 290 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 8: one to say she was found and one of those tunnels. 291 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 8: But what's interesting the tunnel is not actually close to 292 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 8: where her car was found. Are close to the entrance 293 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 8: of the mon Pa trio. 294 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: Okay, hold on just a moment. That's a lot of information. 295 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: Vincent is joining us from Fox forty five Baltimore. Repeat 296 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 2: that really slowly, so we can all dissect it. And 297 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 2: let me remind everyone we're in the middle of what 298 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 2: I believe to be a murder investigation of a mother 299 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: of five. So I've got a real brain trust here. 300 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 2: Jump in people, All right, Okay, go ahead, Vince and 301 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 2: say that again, because that had a lot, a lot 302 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 2: of evidentiary issues and what you just said. 303 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean where Rachel was found in the tunnel 304 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 8: is not close to where her car was or close 305 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 8: to the entrance of the trail. And the thing about 306 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 8: the trail on Nancy, I was there at ten o'clock 307 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 8: Sunday night. It's very dark back there, so anything could 308 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,479 Speaker 8: have happened. Anyone could have come out of anywhere to 309 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 8: take this young lady and do whatever they did to her. 310 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 2: Okay, straight back out to Ron Bateman, former sheriff, What 311 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 2: do you think about that? 312 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 10: Well, you know, these opportunistic criminals strength at the strangest times. 313 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 10: I've worked cases here in my jurisdiction where we had 314 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 10: a jogger, same thing. She was a jogger an area 315 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 10: where she frequented, so she may have been stalked, but 316 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 10: same thing, just a brutal murder out of nowhere. Did 317 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 10: not know the victim. I've actually handled a case where 318 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 10: a body was actually placed in a drainage pipe that 319 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 10: wasn't big like you're describing Nancy, where you can walk 320 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 10: through it. But it's just these opportunistic criminals just blow 321 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 10: me away when they just do this out of nowhere 322 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 10: for no reason whatsoever. And I wouldn't read too much 323 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 10: into this local guy saying make sure you checked the tunnels, 324 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 10: because if you grew up in the area and you 325 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 10: frequent it when you were a little kid, and you 326 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 10: grew up there and you were always in the woods 327 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 10: or in the tunnels, I wouldn't draw too much attention 328 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 10: to that, though it still would would spark my curiosity 329 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 10: for sure. 330 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I put him in the category of a 331 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 2: great friend of the family. He goes out. He doesn't 332 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 2: just sit around going, oh no, she's missing. He goes 333 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 2: out and tries to find her with his daughter. And 334 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 2: I doubt very seriously he'd bring his daughter along if 335 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: he knew he was going to find a dead body 336 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: of a family friend. And also, I can never forget 337 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 2: Roy Kronk. Do you remember him? He was the guy 338 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: that found top Mom Casey Anthony's daughter Kelly and he 339 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: called police and call police several times for them to 340 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 2: come look at what he had found, and then he 341 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 2: came under suspicion he was completely innocent, speaking of with 342 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: her car? Will her car reveal any clues? Take a 343 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 2: listen now ur cut seven. 344 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 7: During the initial search again, deputies did locate her vehicle 345 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 7: at the William Street entrance. The vehicle during the investigation 346 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 7: was towed to our CID building up in Forest Hill 347 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 7: where it will be processed for any in all evidence 348 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 7: at this time. At that time last evening, in extensive 349 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 7: search of the trail and surrounding area followed. I noticed 350 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 7: a public was put out by this office by our 351 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 7: officer Media Communications that has had over eleven thousand shares. 352 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,959 Speaker 2: So what if anything can be gained from the car, 353 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: everyone on the panel will jump in. I think the 354 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 2: first thing I'm going to be doing Vincent Hill is 355 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 2: looking for any and all video surveillance. At a lot 356 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 2: of trailhead parking lots. You do have a camera, but 357 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: not the majority. The majority of trailheads are out in 358 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 2: the wilderness and there's not going to be a surveillance camera. 359 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,479 Speaker 3: So where do we go from there? Let me direct 360 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 3: everyone to the. 361 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: Case of Alex Murdoch when he shot himself or had 362 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 2: himself shot in the middle of a rural road. There 363 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 2: wasn't a surveillance camera there, but we said, hey, what 364 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 2: about the intersection, the closest intersection in Low and Bold. 365 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: There is a camera at the church there on the 366 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 2: corner where he turned? Who else turned in? One of 367 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 2: the cars had been there an hour before and an 368 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 2: hour after. Is there a gate to get access to 369 00:21:59,480 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: the trail? 370 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 3: Head had? 371 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: Thank Scott Peterson, the idiot that drove his boat in 372 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: and had to get a receipt when he dumped Lacey's body. 373 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: That kind of interest, and the guy remembered him. Is 374 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 2: there a gateway? 375 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 3: What? Jump in? Please help me? 376 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 13: So, Nancy, you know, I think not only do we 377 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 13: want to look at whether there are cameras directly in 378 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 13: the vicinity of that parking lot, but I'd like to see, 379 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 13: you know what video we have of her going there? 380 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 10: You know? 381 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 8: Was she by her own? 382 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 3: Yes? 383 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 6: You know what? 384 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 13: Was was she with somebody else? 385 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:36,239 Speaker 10: Was? 386 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 13: You know? So that could help in this investigation? 387 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 10: Yes, we know. 388 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,479 Speaker 3: Jump Karen start? How dare you interrupt? Vincent Hill? Go ahead? 389 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 15: Sorry? 390 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 2: Was that not Vincent who's that? Oh that was Mangino. Okay, 391 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 2: how dare you interrupt? Matthew Mangina? Please go ahead? 392 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 15: And I wanted to say something along with what he 393 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 15: had to say, which is boyfriend who reported her missing 394 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 15: and her boyfriend who said I believe that her car 395 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 15: was there. How do we know that she actually decided 396 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 15: she wanted to go jogging. Maybe he forced her if 397 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 15: he was the one that reported her. We don't know 398 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 15: that she's the one that drove up there, or even 399 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 15: that she left her car there. 400 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 3: Karen Stark, You're so right. 401 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 2: He was the last one to see her, he was 402 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: the one to find her car, he was the one 403 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 2: to report her missing. 404 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 3: So he's going to be looked at very carefully. 405 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 8: What I don't want to speculate that I will say this. 406 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 8: I went to the entrance of that park. There were 407 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 8: snow cameras, there are apartments that turn into the trail. 408 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 8: There may be ring door bells there, but there's also 409 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 8: a group hub that she would have had to pass 410 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 8: to park that car there. But I'm going to jump 411 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 8: out of reporter anchor mode and go back to cop 412 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 8: boat and investigate a motes for just a second, I'd 413 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 8: be interested to learn if her keys were found with 414 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 8: her body. If not, there's a problem, and I'd be 415 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 8: interested and learn too the position of her driver's seat, 416 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 8: because we can tell by looking at the pictures of 417 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 8: Rachel she's very fetitue, very short, and if that seat 418 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 8: is pushed forward, maybe she did drive there. But if 419 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 8: the seat is back, the one thing I do at 420 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 8: six foot one, when I get into a car that 421 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 8: someone shorter than me is driving, it's natural for me 422 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 8: to slide the seat back so I can actually fit 423 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 8: and drive. So I think the car will tell a 424 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 8: lot of clues even if there's no DNA, like just 425 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 8: by the positioning of the seat, just by the positioning 426 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 8: of the mirrors, because as drivers, even if we just 427 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 8: committed a crime, that's something we do naturally. 428 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, Vincent Hill, You're so right. And 429 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 2: a siminar case on that is Tara Grinstead, the gorgeous 430 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 2: high school teacher that goes missing. 431 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 3: I tought her home with her mother. 432 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: It was perfectly in order, except a lampshade was askew, 433 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 2: the bed had a break in it, and there were 434 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 2: pearls scattered across the floor and her seat. She was 435 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 2: one of those people that three years on the car 436 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 2: steels smells brand new, nothing is out of place, doesn't 437 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 2: smell like McDonald's or hairspray or anything like that. And 438 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 2: her car was covered in mud and the seat was 439 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 2: pushed back, just like Vincent Hill is saying, and don't 440 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,239 Speaker 2: limit to the trailhead. What about the intersection before it? 441 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 2: What about ed that brewery that's a business that's nearby. 442 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 2: Was anybody in the car. It's the car called on surveillance. 443 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 2: Think about Brian Coburger and the clerk at seven to 444 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 2: eleven or whatever the convenience store was who went through 445 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 2: reams and reams of convenience store video and sees a 446 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 2: white launch of speeding by Bam Brian Coberger, who's a 447 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: waiting trial in quadruple homicide. 448 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: Yes, that that brewery that you just had jump in. 449 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 10: I was going to say, someone addressed to you of 450 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 10: the ring cameras or various other models of cameras at 451 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 10: front doors, I would be really interested in checking out 452 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 10: that there's many cameras at Rachel's house, oh, or her 453 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 10: ex's house or a boyfriend. 454 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 2: Hold on, I. 455 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 3: Got to write that down. 456 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: That's a great idea home cams to catch her leaving 457 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 2: the house. 458 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 3: Is anybody with her you're leaving the house? 459 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 10: Also some future things to see if there's an ex 460 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 10: or a boyfriend or a coworker, you know, having a 461 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 10: disagreement on camera at the front door at any of 462 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 10: these houses. 463 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 2: You know, you should really consider going into law enforcement. 464 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 2: Former Sheriff of Aaron Delacounty, Ron Baman, Yes, the home 465 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: camera you're drawing right, Oh gosh, that's such a good idea, and. 466 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 10: You addressed it briefly there. But State Highway Administration cameras 467 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 10: are all over every intersection Maryland. And of course you 468 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 10: had the gas stations of the convenience store cameras. But 469 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 10: you've got to canas that neighborhood because those are the 470 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 10: people that use that trail, and they guarantee you there's 471 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 10: somebody that's sitting in their house that hasn't picked up 472 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 10: the phone yet. Happens all the time. They're afraid, they're 473 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 10: afraid to cute somebody. Do you knock the door? Then 474 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 10: they fill it out. 475 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 2: Here's what I saw, Ron Baateman, you're giving me a 476 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 2: memory when the last time I was in Idaho on 477 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 2: the four Beautiful University students that were slain. According to 478 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: cops by Brian Coberger, I was standing outside the house. 479 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: JACKI out if I told you about this. I was 480 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 2: standing there looking around. We were about to do a 481 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 2: shoot with you, Jack, and I looked over. I could 482 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 2: look directly into the window of somebody's department. I could 483 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: even see what their dishwashing liquid was dawn. And what 484 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: I'm saying is, if anybody lives along that route, what 485 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 2: if anything did they see? They may not even know 486 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: they saw something, But what are cops doing right now? 487 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 2: Take a listen hour cut thirteen. 488 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 3: W jay Z. 489 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 4: When asked if there was a threat to the public, 490 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 4: the sheriff told w j Z, I put. 491 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 7: The comment out there that says we don't believe there's 492 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 7: a threat to the committee. I can't do it. 493 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 4: He says there will be extra patrols along the trail 494 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 4: while the investigation continues, and reminds people to practice caution 495 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 4: and stale alert. He wants anyone with information about Warren 496 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 4: to come forward. 497 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 7: If you see something that it doesn't make you feel comfortable, 498 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 7: if you feel suspicious about it, take out your phone 499 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 7: and call nine. 500 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 8: To one one. 501 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 2: Okay, that tells me volumes. I want to say there's 502 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 2: not a threat, but I can't say that. When the 503 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 2: cops tell you there's not a threat, that means it's 504 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,239 Speaker 2: a targeted attack and they think they know who it is. 505 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 2: There's a big screw up in Coburger when the cops 506 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: came out and said there's not a threat, but the 507 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,479 Speaker 2: killer was in fact still walking free. That's when they 508 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 2: thought it was a targeted attack on these four victims. 509 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 10: I got something for you, didn't Who said. 510 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 3: Jumping in Vincent? Is that you or Bateman? 511 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 10: That was me? Go ahead, that was me. I just 512 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 10: got a question that really bothers me. Why is a 513 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 10: mother of five going out for a job without her 514 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 10: kids at six pm on a Saturday night? 515 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 3: Who is this talking? 516 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 10: Ron Bateman? I'm sorry? 517 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 3: Is this Bateman? Okay? 518 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: Ron Bateman? I need to drag you into twenty twenty two. 519 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 2: Guess what, women go jogging when they can. How do 520 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 2: I know if there was an aunt or the boyfriend 521 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 2: or whoever with the children. And guess what, Sometimes we 522 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 2: go jogging in shorts in a jogging bra I want 523 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 2: you to sit down when you're the rest of it. 524 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: And sometimes we don't worry that we're gonna get raped 525 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 2: and murdered. So at six pm, for Pete's sake, I'm 526 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 2: still going strong at six pm. To me, that's like 527 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: one pm. Please do not say that again. Bateman, Spanky, Spanky? 528 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 2: Why was she out jogging because she felt like, excuse me? 529 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 2: Are we in USA here? Or am I in communist China? 530 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 3: Oh? We're still in the USA, so I can go 531 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 3: out and jog at six pm. I think we're Jackie 532 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 3: is defending you. F yi go. 533 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 13: Saver kids with him because that's usually an. 534 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 2: Oh, so you're gonna take five children that are toddlers 535 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 2: with you when you jog? 536 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 3: Oh? Okay, Baateman, how many children do you have? 537 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 10: I have three. 538 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,719 Speaker 2: Do you ever take them jogging or walking when they 539 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 2: were two or three years old? 540 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 10: I actually did take them on at Rent Larkley. 541 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 3: So hiking, hiking, but not jogging. 542 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 2: How did you ever think this mom might want to 543 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 2: break she's got five children? 544 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, Okay, I'm going to quit beating on you 545 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 3: for just a moment, even though it's a lot of fun. 546 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: I want to talk about somebody else, not a suspect, 547 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 2: the boyfriend take a listen hour cut to our friends 548 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: at Crime online. 549 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 16: Thirty seven year old mother of five Rachel Marin and 550 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 16: twenty seven year old Richard Tobin announced they were a 551 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 16: couple via Facebook. Just four days after the relationship announcement, 552 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 16: Rachel is missing and Richard Tobin is defending his past. 553 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 16: Tobin is the one who called to report his new 554 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 16: girlfriend missing at eleven thirty pm Saturday night, and it 555 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 16: was Tobin who told police where Marin's car was parked 556 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 16: and that she wasn't in the car. Tobin is a 557 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 16: decade younger than Rachel Marin and has a lengthy criminal 558 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 16: past and felt the need to address the speculation and 559 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 16: in a Facebook post said quote, I love Rachel, I 560 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 16: would never do anything to her. Yes, I have a past, 561 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 16: but I also have fifteen months clean and have changed 562 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 16: as a person. 563 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: Please Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 564 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 3: Vincent. 565 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 2: Vincent Hill is joining me from Fox forty five Baltimore. 566 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: I did a little research on the boyfriend and what 567 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 2: I found is he doesn't just have a past. He 568 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: has fourteen arrests since twenty fourteen, including drugs, assault, disorderly conduct, 569 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,479 Speaker 2: refusing arrest. I was told domestic what do you know? 570 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 8: Yeah, Nancy, I mean just laid out his rap sheet 571 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 8: if you. 572 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 3: Will, and you know I did. 573 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 8: Yeah, to go back to my cop base. You know, 574 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 8: when you're the person to call nine on one, when 575 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 8: you're the person to find the car, when you're injecting 576 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 8: yourself in an investigation, certainly as an investigator, you want 577 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 8: to question those things. You know, like you touched on 578 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 8: her being a woman walking in running in the park 579 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 8: with shorts and a sports brawl. I mean, think about this, Nancy, 580 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 8: she was a beautiful woman. At six o'clock, the sun 581 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 8: is still up. I'm thinking one hundred people would have 582 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 8: noticed her running through that park just because eyes glazed 583 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 8: on beauty. Right, So you know, we don't have a 584 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 8: bunch of people coming forward to say, oh, yeah, I 585 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 8: saw a running in this trail at six o'clock. Then 586 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 8: there's a problem with the statements made by the boyfriend. 587 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 2: Okay, why do you say that there is a problem 588 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 2: with statements made by the boyfriend? 589 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 8: Well, I mean think about it, Nancy, she did go 590 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 8: to this trail, she was on a run. Yes, she's 591 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 8: a very noticeable person. People would have noticed. Yes, I 592 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 8: saw her. 593 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 3: An ugly bag like me. Is that where you're trying 594 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 3: to say thanks, go ahead. 595 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 8: I'm not saying that they wouldn't notice me running through 596 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 8: the I'm just saying she, well, she would probably catch 597 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 8: eyes if she was in that trail, right, So as 598 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 8: an investigator, I want people to come forward and say, yes, 599 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 8: I saw her at six fifteen. I was walking my dog. 600 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 8: She ran past me. She smiled and said hello. If 601 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 8: I don't see that, then I have to go back 602 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 8: even further than six o'clock and figure out where Rachel 603 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 8: was leading up until the time of that nine one 604 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 8: one call. 605 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 13: So Nancy, I would just comment, yeah, okay, he's the boyfriend, 606 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 13: and you're always going to look at the boyfriend the husband. 607 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 13: It's always going to be a suspect, at least initially. 608 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 13: And there are some things that really, you know, seem 609 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 13: inconsistent with someone who has nothing to do with this, 610 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 13: based on his statements and other things. But I think 611 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 13: you also can't rush the judgment and put blinders on, 612 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 13: and sometimes that happened. One of the things that I 613 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 13: would want to look into is you know what relationships 614 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 13: were either he or her in prior to this relationship, 615 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 13: because one of the things that's striking is just on 616 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 13: the first of August he puts something up saying that 617 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 13: he was in a relationship with her. Did that offend 618 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 13: a former girlfriend or offend a former boyfriend? 619 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,280 Speaker 3: Is this man Gena still speaking? Yes, it is okay. 620 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 2: Matthew Manngina joining me, former prosecutor of felonies including homicides, 621 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 2: now defense attorney and author at Mattmanngino dot com. Matt, 622 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 2: You're absolutely correct. I think the mode of homicide, cause 623 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 2: of death. Let's just say, what if somebody snapped her neck, 624 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,399 Speaker 2: we can safely assume a woman didn't do that if 625 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 2: she was bludgeoned dead by let's just say, I think 626 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 2: of Ted Bundy. He actually bludgeon people with a log. 627 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 2: Depending on the motive death, statistically, you may be able 628 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 2: to exclude a female killer. 629 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 3: I don't think this was a female killer, but you're right. 630 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 2: Typically the investigation starts with the love object, the husband, 631 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 2: the ex husband, boyfriend, ex boyfriend, stalker, co male coworker, 632 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 2: and then you move out. Of course, there's always the 633 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 2: weirdo like Lisa Nowak. 634 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 3: Isn't that her name? Jackie? 635 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 2: Literally an astronaut that traveled across country to try to 636 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 2: kill her love rival. It does happen, Doctor Tim Gallagher 637 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 2: joining US Medical examder from the State of Florida. 638 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 3: Dr Gallagher. 639 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 2: They walk upon the scene and they immediately say, this 640 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 2: is a homicide. What does that tell you, Doctor Gallagher? 641 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 9: What it tells me is that there was something at 642 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 9: the scene that was probably bloody. But you know, it 643 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 9: makes me question, you know, who is the person who 644 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 9: made that call, you know, and what are their qualifications? 645 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 9: You know, how are they able to come to this conclusion? 646 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 9: You know, a bloody scene, especially an outdoor bloody scene, 647 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 9: especially an outdoor bloody scene in an area that is 648 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 9: secreted away, such as a tunnel. You know, how do 649 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 9: we know that it's not an animal attack, a pit 650 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 9: bull attack, you know, something something of that nature. 651 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 10: You know. 652 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 9: So I think that, you know, it's a good case 653 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 9: for the medical examiner to really spend a lot of 654 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 9: time on because you know, the the nature of the killing, 655 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 9: whether it be bludgeon to death or whether it be 656 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 9: a sharp instrument being used. You know, a lot of 657 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 9: things can mimic that, especially in the outdoors. You know, 658 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 9: what's you victim of an accident? Did you get hit 659 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 9: by a golf cart? You know that may have been 660 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 9: going through that tunnel too. You know, so these are 661 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 9: questions that the medical examiner is a very qualified to answer. 662 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 3: Well, I didn't see that answer coming, but you're absolutely right. Guys. 663 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 2: We're focusing on for a moment anyway, the boyfriend who 664 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 2: announced on social media there are a couple just four 665 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 2: days before Rachel. 666 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 3: Is found dead. 667 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 2: But yes, that's standard operating procedure to look at him first. 668 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 2: That doesn't mean he's guilty, and he's not been named 669 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 2: a suspect. Can I remind everybody of Eliza Fletcher? Listen 670 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,879 Speaker 2: our cut twenty two our friends at WRG. 671 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 17: Fletcher was jogging down Central Avenue around four point thirty 672 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 17: this morning when investigators say she was approached by someone 673 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 17: who forced her into a dark colored suv and drove off. 674 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 3: You don't want to hear that that's going on. We 675 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 3: want to find her. We don't know what's going on. 676 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 17: Hart Robinson is a friend of Fletcher and got the 677 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 17: news this morning and immediately came to the area of 678 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 17: Central Avenue and Zach Curling Street where she was last seen, 679 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 17: where everybody's desperately looking for it. 680 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 2: Eliza Fletcher, loving mother teacher, was killed by a man. 681 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,879 Speaker 2: According to murdered assaulted and murdered. Cleotha Abstin, who had 682 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 2: never met her before, is like a predator. And then, 683 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,800 Speaker 2: of course I can never forget the Long Island joggres. 684 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 2: She is called Carina Vitrano. Takeolasnower, cut twenty six from GMA. 685 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 18: New York. Police are on the hunt for a killer. 686 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 3: Right now, this evidence of strangulation asphyxiation. 687 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 18: Overnight a vigil for thirty year old Karina Vitrano went 688 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 18: out for a jog around five o'clock Tuesday and never 689 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,359 Speaker 18: came home. Concerned, her father called police and went out 690 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 18: looking for her on a path they often ran together. 691 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 3: Could imagine his angst at that point. We found her 692 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 3: face down in the ground. We immediately called the MS. 693 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 18: The Toronto was found face down just a few blocks 694 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 18: away from her New York home. 695 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 2: Found by her own father. I man I now consider 696 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,280 Speaker 2: a friend Phil the Tranto. She was murdered by twenty 697 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 2: year old Channel Lewis, whom she had never met, And 698 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 2: of course Molly Tibbitts Take a List hour cut twenty 699 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 2: nine from ABC. 700 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 19: For the first time, we are hearing from the man 701 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 19: who believes he could be the last person to have 702 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 19: seen Molly Tibbitts. Before her mysterious disappearance, Devin Riley says, 703 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 19: the University of Iowa student went jogging past his house 704 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 19: about eight pm July eighteenth. 705 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,399 Speaker 3: She jogged down the street up the hill and there's 706 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 3: just nothing of it until I heard somebody was missing, 707 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 3: and then they like really hit me, and it's like 708 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,439 Speaker 3: I haven't seen that runner since then. 709 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 19: He called the police with the tip after seeing her 710 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 19: picture on the news. 711 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 2: Molly Tibbots was murdered by a man she had never met, 712 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 2: who then dragged her off and hear her body in 713 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 2: a cornfield. His name Christian Rivera. What is the truth 714 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 2: about the disappearance and death of this beautiful mom of 715 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 2: five children now sentenced to live without mom? We wait 716 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 2: as just as unfolds. 717 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 3: If you have. 718 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 2: Information, please dial for one zero eight three six five 719 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:02,760 Speaker 2: four three zero. 720 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 3: Goodbye for 721 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 10: Mhm.