WEBVTT - HOOTIE & HEALING: JIM SONEFELD

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<v Speaker 1>Swimming with the Blowfish, Hoody Healing, and One hell of

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<v Speaker 1>a Ride. That's a great title. It's the book by

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<v Speaker 1>Jim Sonefeld. Everyone calls him Sony, the drummer for Hoody

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<v Speaker 1>and the Blowfish, a songwriter and now also a solo artist.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I've known Sony for more than twenty five years.

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<v Speaker 1>Hoody and the ESPN squad were closely connected in the nineties.

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<v Speaker 1>To quote his bandmate Darius Rucker in the books Forward,

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<v Speaker 1>Sony has lived a life that is rife with fun

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<v Speaker 1>and pain, light and darkness, but always with an amazing

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<v Speaker 1>amount of love. We talk about all kinds of things.

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<v Speaker 1>How soccer dreams led him to South Carolina where he

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<v Speaker 1>connected with Hoody. That's an incredible story that started with

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<v Speaker 1>a devastating fire. Sony tells rock and roll tales, from

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<v Speaker 1>the early struggles to selling more than ten million records,

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<v Speaker 1>winning two Grammys. We have plenty of laughs, but Sony

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<v Speaker 1>also really opens up about his addiction and recovery and

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<v Speaker 1>his faith. Our conversation is honest, authentic, and inspiring. Well, Sony,

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<v Speaker 1>It's awesome to reconnect with you after more than a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of decades. Podcasts can serve that purpose too, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's great to see your smiling, bald headed face. And

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<v Speaker 1>we've got a lot to talk about, a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>ground to cover, So thanks for coming on.

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<v Speaker 2>So glad to reconnect. And it's a funny world that way.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, then you look up and you're maybe

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<v Speaker 2>a little older, but we have great memories.

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<v Speaker 1>We hope wiser too. Yeah, well you're a very funny guy.

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<v Speaker 1>There is the funny, there is the heavy, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>everything in between the cover. But first off, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to start with a decision that you made when you're young.

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<v Speaker 1>And so often our lives, the course of them, is

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<v Speaker 1>changed by a decision that is to many others ill

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<v Speaker 1>advised along and you're a young soccer player from the

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<v Speaker 1>Midwest and you decide that you're good enough to go

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<v Speaker 1>down to South Carolina and walk on to a very

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<v Speaker 1>elite soccer program against the odds, and just by going

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<v Speaker 1>to that school and that state and following that path,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like so many other things in your life,

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<v Speaker 1>your music career, the loves of your life, all of

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<v Speaker 1>that came from that one decision to jump in a

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<v Speaker 1>car with your brother and drive from Illinois to South

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<v Speaker 1>Carolina to try to make the soccer team.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well it shows I am nothing if not a

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<v Speaker 2>host of human contradictions in my life. Many before that

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<v Speaker 2>decision and many more after, But that was one where

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<v Speaker 2>I sort of followed a gut instinct which I have

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<v Speaker 2>not always done, and said, I think I can do

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<v Speaker 2>this thing. I've played amongst all state players in Illinois,

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<v Speaker 2>and there were many, I wasn't an All state player

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<v Speaker 2>and in that award, and I look at the rosters

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<v Speaker 2>in the Southeast where there were some big teams like

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<v Speaker 2>NC State, Clemson, and South Carolina was on the rise,

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<v Speaker 2>and I thought, that's the place I want to do

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<v Speaker 2>something different.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to get out of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Cold, and I want to try it. Honestly, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe the best plans, when they work, are the ones

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<v Speaker 2>that don't have a backup, because they look very courageous

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<v Speaker 2>and brave. I didn't have a backup besides being a student,

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<v Speaker 2>which would never have suited me enough compared to soccer,

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<v Speaker 2>which had drawn me my whole life. So I had

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<v Speaker 2>a little roster of picture back in the eighties and

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<v Speaker 2>it was the team, the South Carolina team from the

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<v Speaker 2>previous year, and I had xed out. Okay, he's a senior,

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<v Speaker 2>he's graduating, he's leaving. Oh, he's transferred. And I had

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<v Speaker 2>like it narrowed it down to these guys and I

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<v Speaker 2>saw where they were from and what their stats were.

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<v Speaker 2>I had dreamed up this dream based on a piece

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<v Speaker 2>of paper and a promise from our coach to get

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<v Speaker 2>a try out, a fair tryout. It was thinly advised,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, again, one of those things that looks

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<v Speaker 2>pretty cool when you achieve it. I would have probably

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<v Speaker 2>looked like it wasn't very well thought out if I

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<v Speaker 2>had not achieved it.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, man, looking at the looking at the

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<v Speaker 1>roster and the calculating what your chances were, that's that's

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<v Speaker 1>more than most walk ons do. But I love the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that you said you followed your gut, your instinct,

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<v Speaker 1>and to do that you got to clear out the static.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know later in your life it was harder

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<v Speaker 1>to clear out the static and listen to your gut.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's the same thing for all of us, whether

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<v Speaker 1>it's static from within or static around us. Clearing that

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<v Speaker 1>away and making this choice that ended up working out

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<v Speaker 1>great and led to so many other things. Although your

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<v Speaker 1>soccer career, you write in your book about the ups

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<v Speaker 1>and downs within that career, which kind of mirrors some

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<v Speaker 1>of the ups and downs in your larger life. What

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<v Speaker 1>does the number one point one signify oring that part

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<v Speaker 1>of your life, And we're not talking about lad alcohol

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<v Speaker 1>content at this point, that's later one point one.

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<v Speaker 2>It probably would sounds like it was around my grade

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<v Speaker 2>point average my freshman year. And that was the other

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<v Speaker 2>part that was not well thought out. Oh, college is

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<v Speaker 2>to get a degree. It's not to run around a

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<v Speaker 2>soccer field. I hadn't thought much about the books and

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<v Speaker 2>the time it would take to get proper grades to

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<v Speaker 2>be a student athlete. So if that's what you're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about that one point one, that's what I remember.

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<v Speaker 1>You cock to that in your book and it's like

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<v Speaker 1>almost a blue Tarski GPA. But the happy thing is

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<v Speaker 1>you came back and you ended up turning that around,

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<v Speaker 1>turning your career around. But music at this point, you right,

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<v Speaker 1>You weren't in a band until you're twenty one, which

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<v Speaker 1>is really late for a lot of people that listeners

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<v Speaker 1>here playing music. Generally, they were in bands from a

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<v Speaker 1>much younger age. I know you were drumming from a

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<v Speaker 1>younger age, but you finally get music, passion kind of

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<v Speaker 1>begins to take more charge. And although you did want

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<v Speaker 1>to go to a grateful dead show, I think you

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<v Speaker 1>said it was it was two days after for a

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<v Speaker 1>soccer game, and all you want to do is drop

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<v Speaker 1>acid and go to a dead show and not play soccer.

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<v Speaker 1>But that thankful that that plan didn't end up happening.

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<v Speaker 2>The wiser voices prevailed, thankfully.

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<v Speaker 1>But but not getting around you know in bands just

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<v Speaker 1>you know, playing for the fun of it, playing for

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<v Speaker 1>the love of music. You talk about that because that's

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<v Speaker 1>a part of the development of so many musicians. And

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<v Speaker 1>when you did get into a band, and back in Colombia,

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<v Speaker 1>Toody in the Jones was one of the early bands,

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<v Speaker 1>right tout in the Jones to Hoody and the Blowfish.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what the odds are going between two

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<v Speaker 1>bands with those names.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah I didn't. I was not blessed with being in

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest band named bands. There are many bad, dumb names,

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<v Speaker 2>but I had the only Hoodie Toody that I ever

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<v Speaker 2>canna remember in life. And you know, part part of

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<v Speaker 2>my journey was like sports. I had a period where,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I was born a drummer, so I could

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<v Speaker 2>drum on my own and I had that that is

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<v Speaker 2>was in my blood from a young age and it

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<v Speaker 2>was always going to be there. But it was picking

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<v Speaker 2>up an acoustic guitar in college and then a piano

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<v Speaker 2>and having fun with it to say this is an

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<v Speaker 2>interest of mine. I'm under no pressure. I'm not you know, travel,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not being forced to do this. I'm enjoying it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm growing and developing as I went. That was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of an important part of my journey, even for

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<v Speaker 2>my sport of soccer, because I played other sports, and

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<v Speaker 2>back in that year, I don't think there was as

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<v Speaker 2>much pressure on athletes at a young age to be

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<v Speaker 2>in a system, to be on a club, to be

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<v Speaker 2>signed in, signed up, and you got to play seven

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<v Speaker 2>days a week and you can't play other sports. Music

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<v Speaker 2>for me was that thing that was an interest that

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<v Speaker 2>I needed time to develop and realize.

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<v Speaker 3>No one's putting this on me.

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<v Speaker 2>There's not a coach above me, there's not a parent

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<v Speaker 2>looking over my shoulder, there's not an expectation. Music was

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<v Speaker 2>this love in my heart that developed when I picked

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<v Speaker 2>up a guitar and melodies came out, and when I

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<v Speaker 2>picked up a piano. I didn't pick up a piano,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I sat down in front of it technic

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<v Speaker 2>and realized, there's a beautiful thing that's connecting me to

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<v Speaker 2>all the music I've listened to as a child.

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<v Speaker 3>So I liked that I had that.

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<v Speaker 2>Period of time to just enjoy something before it became serious.

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<v Speaker 2>And maybe kids today, because I've raised a handful of

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<v Speaker 2>student athletes, that's too much. We get them so serious

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<v Speaker 2>so early in their sport, in their singular lane, that

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<v Speaker 2>it takes some of the joy away. And so music

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<v Speaker 2>was never taken away from me as a joyful interest.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm thankful for that.

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<v Speaker 1>Was it love of the process more than concern about

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<v Speaker 1>fortune and fame that obviously you came later in a

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<v Speaker 1>different band. Was it just playing music brought you joy

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<v Speaker 1>and you weren't trying to get somewhere with it, you

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<v Speaker 1>were just trying to enjoy it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was. I was very much in the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>I was training on the job, I was seeing the results.

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<v Speaker 2>For making music is first in your own heart. You

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<v Speaker 2>make a song, you're amused, you're delighted by a rhyme

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<v Speaker 2>you've come up with with that you sound a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit like a good song that you've heard on the radio.

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<v Speaker 2>You feel that little self accomplishment. But then getting in

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<v Speaker 2>front of people in bars at twenty one for the

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<v Speaker 2>first time to see the reaction, that was kind of cool.

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<v Speaker 2>It was similar to sports and getting a round of applause.

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<v Speaker 2>But it was also never competition, and I'm thankful that

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<v Speaker 2>that music has never felt like a competition for me

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<v Speaker 2>or my bandmates's we.

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<v Speaker 3>Get to do it, we love doing it. Let's do it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. There was no we're beating them, or we

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<v Speaker 2>have to compete against some other band. We never looked

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<v Speaker 2>at it that way, and there are bands, there are

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<v Speaker 2>artists who do and take it rather seriously.

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<v Speaker 3>We never had that.

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<v Speaker 2>We knew we get to be on stage. This is fun,

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<v Speaker 2>this is you know, what we were meant to do.

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<v Speaker 2>So sports was different that way. Music was just wow,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm coming up with melodies. You know, I'm starving, I

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<v Speaker 2>can't pay rents, But those seem to be less of

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<v Speaker 2>a worry than the joy we got on stage.

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<v Speaker 1>Speaking of rent, you writing your book about one of

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<v Speaker 1>those events in life that is horrible at the time

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<v Speaker 1>but creates an experience in growth you lose I guess

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<v Speaker 1>almost everything you have in a fire in your apartment building,

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<v Speaker 1>and at that point your parents had gotten divorced. I

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<v Speaker 1>believe you really had no home to go back to.

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<v Speaker 1>You had nowhere to go and not much to your name.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was through that experience that you got connected

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<v Speaker 1>with Mark Bryant, the guitarist in Hoodie, and you talk

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<v Speaker 1>about your first connection with that band was an act

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<v Speaker 1>of love and generosity on your behalf, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>very cool origin story.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and honestly, I didn't connect that until I sat

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<v Speaker 2>down to start writing the book and looking at the

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<v Speaker 2>greater the picture from above, like, wait, the thing that

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<v Speaker 2>connected us was, you know, I remember auditioning for the band,

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<v Speaker 2>but really, when I went back further, it was the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that I was found myself homeless, and I went

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<v Speaker 2>instinctively to the place where I would go for some

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<v Speaker 2>solace in college, a bar, right, That's where you go

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<v Speaker 2>to to meet someone that you can tell your story

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<v Speaker 2>to or maybe get a free drink. And I was

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<v Speaker 2>down and out. I wasn't feeling too great at that moment.

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<v Speaker 2>But when I walked in, it was a guy I

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<v Speaker 2>knew from audio production class, Mark Bryan on stage and

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<v Speaker 2>his act in the middle of his band's rock and

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<v Speaker 2>roll show to stop the show, recognize me and know

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<v Speaker 2>that there was a fire on campus, and stay hold up, everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>I want you to know there was a fire on campus.

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<v Speaker 2>You've probably heard about it. But I'm gonna take my

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<v Speaker 2>sweaty Maryland ball cap off and pass it, and you're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna put money in it for my buddy Sony, who's

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<v Speaker 2>walking up to the stage right now. And I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>what kind of like outrageous love is this? It just

0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.880
<v Speaker 2>felt good. Of course, I was happy to be in

0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:51.960
<v Speaker 2>the moment and have thirty four bucks stuffed in my

0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.400
<v Speaker 2>pocket a few minutes later. But I thought, a few

0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.000
<v Speaker 2>months later, as I'm getting an audition for that band

0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.199
<v Speaker 2>which ends up being hooting the Blowfish, these are good guys.

0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:05.120
<v Speaker 2>These aren't just guys who were striving to get to

0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.240
<v Speaker 2>the top of music. They're having fun on stage. They're

0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.240
<v Speaker 2>willing to use their influence on that stage for good,

0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.960
<v Speaker 2>which I didn't forget. And when I joined the band,

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.800
<v Speaker 2>I felt I was probably in the right place because

0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:25.520
<v Speaker 2>of what they brought, not just musically but in their hearts.

0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'd have a real tragedy. That is one of

0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 1>the coolest joining of band stories. I've ever heard thirty

0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.280
<v Speaker 1>four bucks in a condom? You wrote it?

0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was luckily not used. It was just still

0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.440
<v Speaker 2>the wrapper and I probably never got to use it.

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:49.000
<v Speaker 2>But the moment was not lost on me. And that

0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:50.720
<v Speaker 2>was the fun of writing a book is I got

0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.200
<v Speaker 2>to go back to some moments that were vague to

0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.960
<v Speaker 2>me or I remember them.

0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:58.640
<v Speaker 3>But when you sit down and you want to write

0:12:58.640 --> 0:12:59.439
<v Speaker 3>a riveting.

0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Story about the moment, you got to think of what

0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.000
<v Speaker 2>actually happened there. And the more I thought, the more

0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.480
<v Speaker 2>I remembered, Oh my gosh, this was kind of a

0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.520
<v Speaker 2>cool connection to my new band. And I wouldn't find

0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.000
<v Speaker 2>out for six months, but eventually I'd be in that

0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.200
<v Speaker 2>band that was on stage, and yeah, what a crazy

0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.560
<v Speaker 2>thing to be homeless and then find a home.

0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.520
<v Speaker 1>It's one of the great stories in the book. You

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.000
<v Speaker 1>talk about kind of two worlds intersecting that the very

0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.560
<v Speaker 1>first Hootie show you play, what were you doing earlier

0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:32.960
<v Speaker 1>on that Saturday? Because I get a kick out of this.

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, I had a good work ethic and I joined

0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.719
<v Speaker 2>a couple bands, so I was, you know, scrambling. I

0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:44.560
<v Speaker 2>worked forty hours at the University TV department, which and

0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:46.920
<v Speaker 2>then had two bands I was in. A part of

0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.240
<v Speaker 2>my job at the USC was to cover the Sparky

0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Woods Football Show, and I was an assistant to one

0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.280
<v Speaker 2>of the cameramen, running up and down the field, you know,

0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.000
<v Speaker 2>every third down for the punt and just hustle. And

0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.520
<v Speaker 2>that's what a youthful guy like me was built to

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:03.559
<v Speaker 2>do at the time. And so I was in Athens,

0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Georgia watching the game Cocks take one to the Bulldogs

0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 2>that day, which was pretty sweet, and I knew I

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.480
<v Speaker 2>had to drive my dumpy little car another couple hours

0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.439
<v Speaker 2>to meet my bandmates at a local small college where

0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.480
<v Speaker 2>we had my first gig with the band at a

0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 2>fraternity mixer. And so it was a typical day that

0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, I didn't I didn't ever worry about sleep

0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.440
<v Speaker 2>or you know, any of that stuff. So I was

0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.360
<v Speaker 2>happy to go work my butt off in Athens and

0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 2>then go to another town and then.

0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure I got home at three in the morning.

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 3>You know, pretty happy.

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Brother, That's no typical day. That's an amazing difference of

0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 1>all South Carolina winning between the Hedges and Athens didn't

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.320
<v Speaker 1>happen anymore. But that was in the late late eighties,

0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 1>it was possible. And you do that, and then you

0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.560
<v Speaker 1>go play your first gig with this band that's going

0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.400
<v Speaker 1>to be an ultra massive that's a pretty damn good Saturday.

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:56.600
<v Speaker 2>It was. I mean, you can appreciate it when you're

0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.360
<v Speaker 2>hustle around and you are happy and you're in and

0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.600
<v Speaker 2>your love and life and you're doing things you get

0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.600
<v Speaker 2>that you love a sports. I mean, suddenly a twelve

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.200
<v Speaker 2>hour day doesn't seem like that that much work. And

0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 2>I know I've listened to your thoughts after long days

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.400
<v Speaker 2>and long games, and you guys are on the way home.

0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a delight to have to get to do something

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 2>you love. And from that moment, I knew I could

0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.000
<v Speaker 2>be in this band. I could do this.

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 1>You were four really hard working dudes. You're not the

0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.880
<v Speaker 1>only band that was playing one hundred and fifty shows

0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.840
<v Speaker 1>a year, but talk about that grind. You're going around.

0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 1>You're writing some songs that would later become globally famous

0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:43.360
<v Speaker 1>and successful, but you're also playing covers. Rim was a

0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.880
<v Speaker 1>band you guys looked up to. I'm a massive Ram

0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.400
<v Speaker 1>fan back from that same era, but you're playing Rim,

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Police Clash, Smithereens you wrote in the book about covering

0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.920
<v Speaker 1>all these different songs, working in your originals, and kind

0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.240
<v Speaker 1>of just doing what young, tire least musicians do right,

0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 1>going around in a vand playing almost every night.

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think we would have probably played

0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.520
<v Speaker 2>three hundred shows a year had we been able to

0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 2>book them or get clubs that were interested in us.

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 2>We didn't know any better. But on the days that

0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 2>we weren't working, we were rehearsing and writing. You know,

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>there's not a playbook for musicians. There's not or how

0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.680
<v Speaker 2>to be in a band. So we used our sort

0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 2>of intellect, a little bit of it, some bravery to

0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>go long distances, or just the hope the chance of

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.760
<v Speaker 2>getting seen by a record company. We had a good

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.400
<v Speaker 2>work ethic, and we had a talented singer, which at

0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.600
<v Speaker 2>the time we probably had no idea how iconic Darius's

0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.720
<v Speaker 2>voice would become. But we only knew to work, you know,

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.400
<v Speaker 2>and when you're having fun, like you said, the twelve

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 2>hour days, no matter, driving six hours to play forty

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 2>minute set for fifty dollars in a twelve pack didn't

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.320
<v Speaker 2>seem like a losing proposition. It felt like opportunity, and

0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 2>so we always took opportunities, and finally we got lined

0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:04.760
<v Speaker 2>up with a manager, Rusty Harmon, who you know, who

0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.320
<v Speaker 2>was able to get us a little organized, and he

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.400
<v Speaker 2>was great at that time for stern up business, which

0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.359
<v Speaker 2>we needed to do because we were busy writing songs,

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 2>we shouldn't be managing and booking. And so we worked

0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:22.320
<v Speaker 2>great together, and you know, slowly, surely we got the

0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:27.240
<v Speaker 2>attention of Atlantic Records. And I've mentioned recently to someone

0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.119
<v Speaker 2>else that, you know, they said, you guys were so

0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 2>lucky to do this. I said, but luck, according to

0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 2>the sign in my weightlifting room in high school, said

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.439
<v Speaker 2>luck is where preparation meets opportunity. So I felt like,

0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, yeah, we were lucky. We had to work

0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 2>to put ourselves in a position to win, and then

0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.520
<v Speaker 2>the opportunity came along, and maybe that is luck.

0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.840
<v Speaker 1>I do want to talk about the business part of

0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.560
<v Speaker 1>the music business, but you mentioned songwriting, and you end

0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:00.159
<v Speaker 1>up being the main songwriter on hold my hand, a

0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.919
<v Speaker 1>song that is again globally famous. You've got tens of

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.680
<v Speaker 1>thousands of people kind of singing along to this song eventually,

0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 1>and you talked about the process of writing a song

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.200
<v Speaker 1>and for those of us that will never experience that.

0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.280
<v Speaker 1>Take us inside the head of a songwriter. When things

0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:20.480
<v Speaker 1>are sort of flowing and it seems effortless. You say,

0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.720
<v Speaker 1>it's almost zen like, when the words and the chords

0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.520
<v Speaker 1>are all kind of just come in together for something

0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.080
<v Speaker 1>that ends up being so massively popular.

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's again. I often parallel the mind of an athlete,

0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.240
<v Speaker 2>or the action of throwing a ball or receiving a ball,

0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.439
<v Speaker 2>and the action of trying to put together words and

0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:45.560
<v Speaker 2>melodies and notes. When you catch yourself not having to

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.080
<v Speaker 2>think about it, that's when you're actually doing the thing

0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 2>in a zen like fashion, where in a sport it's

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.280
<v Speaker 2>the guys that are in the zone. The zone means

0:18:56.320 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 2>you're not thinking about all the details, it's just happening.

0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.640
<v Speaker 3>And so the zone happened for me when I wrote

0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:03.240
<v Speaker 3>hold my Hand.

0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Of course, it was propelling itself forward in a way

0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.680
<v Speaker 2>that the melodies were coming. The idea that I had

0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:10.800
<v Speaker 2>in my heart I wanted people to know about was

0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 2>coming at the same time, and the right chords were there.

0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.359
<v Speaker 2>And man, it doesn't always happen that way. We can

0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:20.960
<v Speaker 2>get so overthinking in our heads. We complicate things, say

0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.639
<v Speaker 2>I want to make this sentence, the perfect sentence, Well

0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:27.879
<v Speaker 2>do you have to or can you just say what

0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:29.720
<v Speaker 2>you want to say and hold my hand? Was me

0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.399
<v Speaker 2>spontaneously saying something I had been feeling for years. I

0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.120
<v Speaker 2>didn't like the heartache around me. I didn't like the oppression.

0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:42.439
<v Speaker 2>I didn't like that people were voiceless and struggling. And

0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.920
<v Speaker 2>that's exactly what I said in the song. So there

0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.160
<v Speaker 2>were moments like that with Hoody. Since we were all

0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:52.199
<v Speaker 2>novice songwriters that we didn't have to overthink it. We

0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.720
<v Speaker 2>didn't know what a radio song sounded like. We'd never

0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 2>been on radio, but we knew what was in our hearts,

0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.080
<v Speaker 2>so we worked that sort of angle and eventually we

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:01.879
<v Speaker 2>got to radio.

0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:07.159
<v Speaker 1>You wrote that that song, which is very hopeful and upbeat,

0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.280
<v Speaker 1>and you wrote songs across the spectrum as a band,

0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:12.439
<v Speaker 1>but a lot of them were very hopeful and upbeat,

0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.119
<v Speaker 1>and you said that you wanted to help ease some

0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 1>of the ugliness and the hopelessness that you had witnessed

0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 1>and lift people up, and it raised hurt. Your band

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.639
<v Speaker 1>would get shit, I think from people unfairly for trying

0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:28.359
<v Speaker 1>to write happy songs, but you know you were seeing

0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.639
<v Speaker 1>one thing, but sort of trying to write about a

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:32.800
<v Speaker 1>different side of the world.

0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:38.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so when you're writing just from your hearts

0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.080
<v Speaker 2>and you're not interested, as we were not interested about

0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.800
<v Speaker 2>image or what the clothes we wore, or what would

0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.800
<v Speaker 2>people think about our music, there's also a chance to

0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 2>go deep in authenticity at that moment, which I think

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:53.600
<v Speaker 2>is really gives any song of personality.

0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.480
<v Speaker 3>I don't care who you are, what genre you're in, if.

0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:00.040
<v Speaker 2>You can be authentic. You know, there's only one original me.

0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.920
<v Speaker 2>There's only four of us original sort of hoody guys

0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.000
<v Speaker 2>that make up that the ingredients that are necessary. And

0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.959
<v Speaker 2>so we were okay with being ourselves. And yeah, eventually

0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.199
<v Speaker 2>we weren't cool. Grunge was We came out of the

0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.639
<v Speaker 2>grunge here where it was the opposite of cool. You

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:21.320
<v Speaker 2>wanted to wear something neat or be rebellious. We weren't

0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.200
<v Speaker 2>quite ever that. You know, we had heartache and we

0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.720
<v Speaker 2>live lives like everybody. It's disappointing at times, it's unfair

0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:31.520
<v Speaker 2>at times, but you go through and our influences, I'll

0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:33.280
<v Speaker 2>tell you, we're all over the map. That was maybe

0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.600
<v Speaker 2>the funniest part that I always look back and go

0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.960
<v Speaker 2>We had Darius, who you know, was raised by mainly

0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.520
<v Speaker 2>his mom, who sang gospel in church.

0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 3>But Darius liked Kiss, Darius liked Merle Haggard. Darius had

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.639
<v Speaker 3>all these weird interests. I was the same, you know,

0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.040
<v Speaker 3>my first concert Kiss and Judas preached.

0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.960
<v Speaker 2>I love hard rock. I loved ac DC, but I

0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.479
<v Speaker 2>also loved Barry Manilow. I also love the cheesy stuff.

0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.040
<v Speaker 2>So by the time we get to what do us

0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.440
<v Speaker 2>four want to sound like? It could have gone anyway

0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.119
<v Speaker 2>in the world. The fact that we were able to

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:12.239
<v Speaker 2>manage to sound like anything is sometimes surprising because and

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.680
<v Speaker 2>then you add in Dean and Mark's influences, which were

0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:16.560
<v Speaker 2>again all over the place.

0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.400
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how we ever landed where we did.

0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:23.199
<v Speaker 1>You know, that's what was cool about music in the nineties, though,

0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:27.520
<v Speaker 1>when you write about eventually a crack review, the debut

0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.879
<v Speaker 1>album blows up and sells more than ten million, then

0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.560
<v Speaker 1>you win a couple of Grammys, and the people that

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:37.240
<v Speaker 1>presented you those two Grammys that night, speaking all over

0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 1>the spectrum, just shows that, you know, something was present

0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:43.520
<v Speaker 1>in that era in music that it's tougher to achieve now,

0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:47.640
<v Speaker 1>where everybody's so splintered. Everybody's in lanes and silos and

0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:50.840
<v Speaker 1>who passed those two Grammys to you the night that

0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:52.000
<v Speaker 1>you guys won them.

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was not very manlow, but it was Kiss

0:22:57.119 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 2>in their full makeup, which was insane because we didn't

0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:01.639
<v Speaker 2>see it coming. We did weren't even to wear that

0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:04.479
<v Speaker 2>was that they were going to be the guys giving

0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:06.879
<v Speaker 2>a trophy. We didn't think we'd win it anyway. But

0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 2>and then Tupac, So we've got just the moment where

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:13.359
<v Speaker 2>you want to freeze yourself in time and say, what

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:16.479
<v Speaker 2>am I doing here? I get they're there, but how

0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:19.760
<v Speaker 2>in the world did we achieve this this place? And

0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, like I said, you know, having Kiss be

0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:28.439
<v Speaker 2>my heroes growing up musically, and the imagery before they

0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:32.640
<v Speaker 2>took their makeoff makeup off to have Gene Simmons leaning

0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:35.000
<v Speaker 2>over my shoulder handing me a Grammy. He was like,

0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:38.240
<v Speaker 2>I almost, you know, pee myself. I was just like,

0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:41.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it was joy, fear or thought

0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:44.680
<v Speaker 2>he might I don't even know, but.

0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:46.879
<v Speaker 1>It's so cool to have different tastes. I mean, I

0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:49.600
<v Speaker 1>was at a Kiss show and mcnichol's arena Denver, Colorado,

0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:51.520
<v Speaker 1>and an older friend got me into Kiss. I really

0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:53.480
<v Speaker 1>wasn't into them. I wass into a lot of other

0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:56.200
<v Speaker 1>kinds of metal, and here I was like first row

0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:58.560
<v Speaker 1>of the balcony leaning over watching these guys on stage,

0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:00.840
<v Speaker 1>and you know, there was sort of, I don't know,

0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:03.840
<v Speaker 1>maybe more open mindedness. I think to people how they

0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:06.600
<v Speaker 1>could could dip in and out of really different kinds

0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:08.880
<v Speaker 1>of music back then that I don't know if it's

0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:11.199
<v Speaker 1>harder now. Maybe I'm just older, but it seems that

0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.320
<v Speaker 1>the same kind of climate doesn't quite exist anymore as

0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:15.480
<v Speaker 1>it did back in those days.

0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't think, I mean, there was some of it,

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:20.400
<v Speaker 2>but I don't think there was as much a need

0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:23.520
<v Speaker 2>to declare that I am this music, all right, this

0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:26.359
<v Speaker 2>is what represents me. Surely there were niches, you know,

0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:29.240
<v Speaker 2>kids that listened to hard rock, or when new wave

0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:31.840
<v Speaker 2>came around that was the thing, and or if you

0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:34.640
<v Speaker 2>listened there listen to country, which I don't think any

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:37.800
<v Speaker 2>kids did back then. It was not cool. It was

0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:40.160
<v Speaker 2>what your granddaddy listened to on the farm or something.

0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:44.159
<v Speaker 2>But I've tried to push to my kids, you know,

0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:47.760
<v Speaker 2>who are between nineteen five, kids between nineteen and twenty

0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:53.160
<v Speaker 2>five to keep open minded. You know, we've shown them

0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:58.520
<v Speaker 2>now that through politics and all this divisiveness, that you

0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 2>have to declare what you are and that's your lane,

0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:03.840
<v Speaker 2>and don't go into anybody else's lane. And that's the

0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:05.840
<v Speaker 2>guy you don't want to like because he's not in

0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:08.720
<v Speaker 2>your lane. I don't like that, BS. And I've told

0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:11.480
<v Speaker 2>my kids from a musical perspective that the more you

0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:14.960
<v Speaker 2>keep your ears open, lower those walls of judgment, you're

0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:17.520
<v Speaker 2>gonna be gifted with so many different styles, whether it's

0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:20.720
<v Speaker 2>jazz or hip hop or country.

0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:25.159
<v Speaker 3>Don't set boundaries. Don't like think that just because you don't.

0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Understand it today, that it's not a great song or

0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 2>artistry or attempt at art. Open your mind. I don't

0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:34.280
<v Speaker 2>know how my mine was not always open. I had

0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:37.920
<v Speaker 2>some prejudices. Dance music is something I could never stand

0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:40.760
<v Speaker 2>because I couldn't dance. I was probably jealous of all

0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:44.520
<v Speaker 2>the guys that got to dance with the scantily clad girls.

0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:49.440
<v Speaker 2>And I didn't like the digital feeling that new music

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:53.159
<v Speaker 2>was rolling into. But I've gotten over a lot of

0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:55.440
<v Speaker 2>those prejudices, and because of that, I can listen to

0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:57.480
<v Speaker 2>the music my kids listen to. I can go back

0:25:57.520 --> 0:25:59.880
<v Speaker 2>and listen to my hard stuff. I can even listen

0:25:59.920 --> 0:26:02.479
<v Speaker 2>to some modern country. Darius is one of my favorite

0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:04.919
<v Speaker 2>country artists. But I don't appreciate all of it. But

0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:08.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, open mind, man. I just love trying to

0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:10.080
<v Speaker 2>teach that to my kids.

0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Heymen, spread the word. There's still amazing music being made

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:19.439
<v Speaker 1>today in all genres, all types, across the spectrumen and

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:22.120
<v Speaker 1>very readily available. Unlike in the days when you guys

0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:25.199
<v Speaker 1>were scratching and clawing and trying to get a label

0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:28.280
<v Speaker 1>to sign on. You mentioned Atlantic Records. Yeah, eventually they

0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:32.720
<v Speaker 1>were your label, but you were I guess, sort of deceived,

0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:36.720
<v Speaker 1>strung along before that. And you write in your book

0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:42.159
<v Speaker 1>about the music business, you know, just being it's not

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:44.840
<v Speaker 1>your words of mind a shitty place, but you talk

0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 1>about deception, greed, backstabbing, ego. Why does it have to

0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:52.720
<v Speaker 1>be that way? Music is such a beautiful thing, but

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:56.679
<v Speaker 1>the business surrounding it doesn't seem to be that very often.

0:26:57.400 --> 0:27:02.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's not a great awakening here. We are all

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:05.119
<v Speaker 2>as musicians and songwriters. We're trying to get up. We

0:27:05.160 --> 0:27:06.840
<v Speaker 2>would like to have a few more fans and a

0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:09.320
<v Speaker 2>few more streams. That's what we're all trying to do

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:11.520
<v Speaker 2>and whether we can admit it or not, that's what

0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:14.719
<v Speaker 2>we want a little more reception to our art. And

0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:18.239
<v Speaker 2>eventually you get up into an area where there you

0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:19.960
<v Speaker 2>know there it is a business.

0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:24.440
<v Speaker 1>And but it's a nasty business, right. I mean, David

0:27:24.440 --> 0:27:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Crosby comes and talks to you, guys that you've got

0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 1>a rock legend, giving you some advice as you're just

0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:35.480
<v Speaker 1>beginning to smash it with Hoodie, and his words were,

0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 1>as you quoted in the book, the music business is

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:44.439
<v Speaker 1>a monstrous operation and an evil like shit storm, is

0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:46.560
<v Speaker 1>what he said. I mean, this is what you're hearing

0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:48.639
<v Speaker 1>from this icon is you guys want kind of launch

0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:51.400
<v Speaker 1>into this and you've tasted some of that, but you're

0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:52.639
<v Speaker 1>about to taste even more of it.

0:27:53.520 --> 0:27:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, and his point was the one I took

0:27:56.680 --> 0:27:59.840
<v Speaker 2>through our career and saved me when I would have

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:04.160
<v Speaker 2>just been going the saying I quit or this is BS,

0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:07.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't like it. He saved me because he said,

0:28:07.320 --> 0:28:10.320
<v Speaker 2>it's okay that there's the business. There has to be

0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:12.919
<v Speaker 2>the business, so let's not try and pretend there's not

0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:16.000
<v Speaker 2>a business because somebody's counting money. If there's money coming

0:28:16.000 --> 0:28:18.320
<v Speaker 2>in somebody's gonna be counted and somebody's gonna be trying

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:18.840
<v Speaker 2>to steal it.

0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:21.400
<v Speaker 3>So let's acknowledge there is a business.

0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:24.480
<v Speaker 2>But let's acknowledge why we're sitting in a room together

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:27.720
<v Speaker 2>making a record with a budget from Atlantic Records is

0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:30.399
<v Speaker 2>because of what it has done to your hearts. You know,

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 2>you guys sit as musicians, We stay up late trying

0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:36.679
<v Speaker 2>to configure chords and lyrics and it's all in our

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:40.320
<v Speaker 2>heart and it's all mushy. Just be willing to acknowledge

0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:42.440
<v Speaker 2>these two things have to meet at some point if

0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:46.560
<v Speaker 2>you want to have a music career, but be able

0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:50.959
<v Speaker 2>to see that dissection that the business is a yucky

0:28:51.000 --> 0:28:54.840
<v Speaker 2>thing because it's dollars and cents and your music is

0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:58.000
<v Speaker 2>in your heart, and don't let it get far away

0:28:58.040 --> 0:28:59.960
<v Speaker 2>from that. There's a place where there we'll have to

0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:02.720
<v Speaker 2>meet and hopefully you'll have an honest manager who can

0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:05.520
<v Speaker 2>guide you through that and an honest attorney like we've

0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:06.360
<v Speaker 2>had both of those.

0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:11.080
<v Speaker 3>But he was warning us that don't let them get diluted.

0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:14.040
<v Speaker 3>And that's the problem is that some people do.

0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:17.920
<v Speaker 2>They get screwed over in business, or they're not wise

0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:21.320
<v Speaker 2>in business, or they don't want there to be business,

0:29:21.400 --> 0:29:23.040
<v Speaker 2>so they say, screw it, I'm just going to do

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:26.720
<v Speaker 2>art for art's sake. Well, that might last year, that

0:29:26.760 --> 0:29:29.960
<v Speaker 2>might get you somewhere. But it's okay that there's a

0:29:30.000 --> 0:29:33.600
<v Speaker 2>business in music. But it's eh, it's yucky. You don't

0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:34.840
<v Speaker 2>want to get it too sticky.

0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 1>But not just external sony. I mean bands fall apart

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:42.840
<v Speaker 1>from the inside because success can create you know, jealousy.

0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:46.479
<v Speaker 1>You get huge amounts of money and fame involved, and you, guys,

0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:49.680
<v Speaker 1>I always admire when I was hanging about a little

0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.760
<v Speaker 1>bit in the periphery, how much love and respect and

0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:56.320
<v Speaker 1>how unchanged you guys seem to be, at least from

0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:59.479
<v Speaker 1>the outside. Despite this massive success. You go on Letterman

0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 1>at Sullivan Theater, the same place where the Beatles broke big.

0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:05.720
<v Speaker 1>You talked about that Dave appearance being massive. If you

0:30:05.760 --> 0:30:07.520
<v Speaker 1>get in a private jet, go down and play a

0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:09.960
<v Speaker 1>show in front of thirty five thousand in your home statement,

0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:14.400
<v Speaker 1>that's a snapshot in the early massive success of Hoodie.

0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:17.880
<v Speaker 1>And yet sometimes you guys, just we're navigating it like

0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:20.600
<v Speaker 1>you're still back in the early days driving around in

0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:24.120
<v Speaker 1>a van. Do you not find that remarkable that you

0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:24.800
<v Speaker 1>kept it together.

0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, maybe it's the Crosby's words, you know, seeped

0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:33.600
<v Speaker 2>in enough to say, protect that good thing, but protect

0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:35.920
<v Speaker 2>not only the music and the argu make, but the

0:30:36.000 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 2>friendships there within a band, because those.

0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:40.240
<v Speaker 3>Are the first that start showing cracks.

0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Typically, because if your band is lucky enough to get big,

0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:46.080
<v Speaker 2>believe me, the first thing is going to be happening

0:30:46.160 --> 0:30:49.080
<v Speaker 2>is there's going to people be people in this lead

0:30:49.120 --> 0:30:52.760
<v Speaker 2>singer's ear telling him how great he is and that

0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:55.720
<v Speaker 2>maybe he should dodge those other guys and do something

0:30:55.760 --> 0:30:58.720
<v Speaker 2>better over here and he could make more. So that's

0:30:58.760 --> 0:31:01.640
<v Speaker 2>the first possible things that are going to break down.

0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:05.560
<v Speaker 2>And maybe Crosby was saying, you know, don't forget that either.

0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Don't forget that there's a love there for four guys

0:31:09.000 --> 0:31:11.760
<v Speaker 2>that have driven around in a van together, smelling each

0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:15.959
<v Speaker 2>other's feet, sharing couches, chairs, hotel rooms. If we were lucky,

0:31:16.880 --> 0:31:20.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, protect that thing too, and remember that's valuable

0:31:20.360 --> 0:31:24.680
<v Speaker 2>and remembering what you've worked, how hard you've worked, if

0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:28.880
<v Speaker 2>you get lucky enough to be on radio, finally, remember that.

0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:30.560
<v Speaker 2>And I think we did. I think we did a

0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:33.680
<v Speaker 2>good job. Upbringing was super helpful. Our parents all along

0:31:33.720 --> 0:31:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the way made us believe or remember that you family

0:31:41.520 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 2>is important. So the four of us were, you know,

0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:48.959
<v Speaker 2>step brothers from another mother. We were nothing short of

0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:51.479
<v Speaker 2>brothers the amount of time we spent together. So we

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:54.240
<v Speaker 2>treated each other as family. We treated our crew that

0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:58.040
<v Speaker 2>we were eventually able to hire as family, and our

0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:00.960
<v Speaker 2>friends out on the road you included. You saw as

0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:05.280
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned how we treated our backstage area. We protected

0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:07.760
<v Speaker 2>that that was very important to us. We didn't let

0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:11.680
<v Speaker 2>some people just bust in there and start defiling it.

0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:16.080
<v Speaker 2>We could defile it plenty of it ourselves as well.

0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:19.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we'll get to the part of your life

0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:23.200
<v Speaker 1>where or partying and alcohol sort of control who He

0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:26.080
<v Speaker 1>was a party band, though that the crowds were celebratory

0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:30.320
<v Speaker 1>having a tremendous time partying. You guys were frankly doing

0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:33.000
<v Speaker 1>that too, which was not unique to your band in

0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:35.600
<v Speaker 1>the world of rock and roll. I don't know how

0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:38.240
<v Speaker 1>I speaking of backstage, I got dragged out on stage

0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:42.480
<v Speaker 1>on my birthday and drank a birthday tequila shot for

0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:44.520
<v Speaker 1>you guys, As probably most of the crowds are, who

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:46.240
<v Speaker 1>the hell is this guy? Game day wasn't very big yet,

0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:49.080
<v Speaker 1>and I was just hanging out there. Who is it

0:32:49.240 --> 0:32:51.640
<v Speaker 1>that guy? Get him off there, get back to the music.

0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:54.080
<v Speaker 1>But it was a fun moment for me, and that

0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:56.800
<v Speaker 1>ended up. I think that was the night I believe

0:32:57.040 --> 0:33:02.000
<v Speaker 1>your manager Rusty's brand new suv and that it partially submerged,

0:33:02.640 --> 0:33:04.840
<v Speaker 1>not in a river, that water was flowing across the

0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:08.160
<v Speaker 1>road as one of those Carolina flash floods that happens,

0:33:08.200 --> 0:33:10.960
<v Speaker 1>and somehow I ended up behind the wheel and it

0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:14.320
<v Speaker 1>never ran again that vehicle. After that fateful night. I

0:33:14.360 --> 0:33:16.680
<v Speaker 1>think Dan Patrick was in there. We might have been

0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:18.720
<v Speaker 1>going to Charles Barkley's party. This was like a v

0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Foundation event. I think it's all a little foggy, I

0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:23.000
<v Speaker 1>have to admit.

0:33:23.760 --> 0:33:26.920
<v Speaker 2>No, those are great fun situations you're happy to have

0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:30.640
<v Speaker 2>lived and lived through because they can go bad, believe me.

0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:33.440
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, that was another great night. We just loved

0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:35.760
<v Speaker 2>the party. We just never really wanted that to end.

0:33:35.840 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 2>So we ushered friend new friends in and Chris follow

0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:41.400
<v Speaker 2>on our stage and yeah, why not.

0:33:42.680 --> 0:33:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, partying was a part of your life way before

0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Hoody in your book, which is very raw and very

0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:52.880
<v Speaker 1>honest and also very inspiring and a great show of

0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:55.680
<v Speaker 1>strength in your part in resilience. But you said that

0:33:55.760 --> 0:34:00.479
<v Speaker 1>alcohol was always a place of peace for you at

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:04.760
<v Speaker 1>first when you were a young person, and it brought

0:34:04.760 --> 0:34:06.960
<v Speaker 1>you for you when you were insecure and when you

0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:10.160
<v Speaker 1>had doubts. Alcohol kind of at first kind of made

0:34:10.160 --> 0:34:13.400
<v Speaker 1>them go away. To talk about sort of your early

0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:16.399
<v Speaker 1>experiences with alcohol and how it became more and more

0:34:16.960 --> 0:34:20.000
<v Speaker 1>a force, a dark force in your life.

0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, it signified from age fourteen some sort of

0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:28.480
<v Speaker 2>maybe a couple of things that we're getting away with something.

0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:31.919
<v Speaker 2>So I liked that thrill seeking aspect of it, that hey,

0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 2>look at me, look at us. We're doing something illegal

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.800
<v Speaker 2>or unlawful, and we're getting a good feeling and we're

0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.319
<v Speaker 2>stealing something from the universe in some way.

0:34:40.400 --> 0:34:42.760
<v Speaker 3>So we like that deviant sort of aspect.

0:34:42.760 --> 0:34:45.879
<v Speaker 2>But for me, over time it became something and our

0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:49.520
<v Speaker 2>society upholds this to a degree. It means we're celebrating

0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:52.720
<v Speaker 2>something right. Maybe it's a hard work day, a hard

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:55.799
<v Speaker 2>work week, maybe it's an accolade or an achievement. But

0:34:56.560 --> 0:34:59.600
<v Speaker 2>in our society, through ages you to hold up that

0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:01.680
<v Speaker 2>glass sort of the shot, even before our show is

0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:05.040
<v Speaker 2>doing shots, it means we're having a success here in

0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:09.400
<v Speaker 2>this moment. So that was fine through many years to

0:35:09.560 --> 0:35:12.239
<v Speaker 2>have it represent that, and it was accurate, especially when

0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:16.000
<v Speaker 2>we got big and we had dreams that were being

0:35:17.920 --> 0:35:21.320
<v Speaker 2>experienced like we never thought they would be. At those times,

0:35:21.400 --> 0:35:24.839
<v Speaker 2>it was a celebration. And my problem came is when

0:35:24.880 --> 0:35:28.480
<v Speaker 2>things started going downhill, as our career naturally sort of

0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:32.840
<v Speaker 2>descended as the next new band with tighter jeans and

0:35:32.920 --> 0:35:37.200
<v Speaker 2>cooler hair that took our place. I held on to

0:35:37.320 --> 0:35:41.399
<v Speaker 2>the thing that represented celebration and success, which was the Booze.

0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:44.440
<v Speaker 2>And as we went downhill, I think my bandmates were

0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:50.720
<v Speaker 2>able to either accept or sort of develop, and I wasn't.

0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:54.840
<v Speaker 2>So I kept grabbing onto that thing that told me

0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:58.520
<v Speaker 2>we're good, right, we're celebrating, we're at we're still living,

0:35:59.040 --> 0:36:00.399
<v Speaker 2>and we weren't. The true was.

0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:04.120
<v Speaker 3>Our best years of record sales were obviously behind us.

0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:08.799
<v Speaker 2>The empty seats in the auditoriums were growing, and I

0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:11.640
<v Speaker 2>was starting a family and probably a little nervous about that,

0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:14.879
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't know to do that. So I held

0:36:14.920 --> 0:36:17.359
<v Speaker 2>on and I was always the one to bring people

0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:19.799
<v Speaker 2>out and say on our off night, let's go the

0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:22.640
<v Speaker 2>whole crew and the band were bowling, or we're going.

0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:24.480
<v Speaker 3>Out to this place, so let's go to a ball game.

0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:29.320
<v Speaker 2>I never wanted that celebration to end, and so I became,

0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:33.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, what was recreational at some point in my

0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:38.759
<v Speaker 2>life became habitual, which became medicinal, which ultimately became alcoholic.

0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:43.600
<v Speaker 1>You said that you believe that alcohol help you get

0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:46.800
<v Speaker 1>more out of life. Usually it's the exact opposite that

0:36:46.840 --> 0:36:49.400
<v Speaker 1>people come to find out. But you joked about it.

0:36:49.440 --> 0:36:51.840
<v Speaker 1>You're a very funny guy, so you make the jokes,

0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:55.839
<v Speaker 1>you deflect it. You kid yourself that your bandmates, your

0:36:55.880 --> 0:36:58.160
<v Speaker 1>loved ones, your people are not hip to what's going on.

0:36:58.760 --> 0:37:02.520
<v Speaker 1>But actually it becomes more and more obvious to more people,

0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:06.880
<v Speaker 1>and to you as well, and the people that you

0:37:07.160 --> 0:37:10.719
<v Speaker 1>love the most, that this was more than just something recreational.

0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:12.719
<v Speaker 1>This wasn't about fun anymore.

0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it got dark, and the sad thing was And

0:37:16.440 --> 0:37:21.520
<v Speaker 2>this probably tells my ism, my alcohol ism a little bit,

0:37:21.600 --> 0:37:24.160
<v Speaker 2>is that when I first found out that people were

0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:26.319
<v Speaker 2>onto me, I had heard a few people that were

0:37:26.920 --> 0:37:30.800
<v Speaker 2>thinking about intervening when I realized that they were talking

0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:32.960
<v Speaker 2>about me, and they were worried. He's hanging out with

0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:36.839
<v Speaker 2>some odd hours. He's hanging out with a different group

0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:41.880
<v Speaker 2>of people. He's prone to temper, and it's usually related

0:37:41.920 --> 0:37:44.120
<v Speaker 2>to drugs or alcohol. When I found out that there

0:37:44.120 --> 0:37:47.200
<v Speaker 2>were people around me that were thinking that way, I

0:37:47.239 --> 0:37:51.160
<v Speaker 2>didn't do what a normal person might do, which is say, yeah,

0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:53.120
<v Speaker 2>maybe you're right, maybe I need to look at this

0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:56.160
<v Speaker 2>because it could hurt not only me but my family

0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:57.239
<v Speaker 2>or this organization.

0:37:58.120 --> 0:38:00.600
<v Speaker 3>Instead I went the other way. I said, oh, oh

0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:02.040
<v Speaker 3>my god, they're on to me.

0:38:02.200 --> 0:38:04.759
<v Speaker 2>I've got to hide this better. I've got to have

0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:07.319
<v Speaker 2>some secrets. I gotta hang out with people that are

0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:10.319
<v Speaker 2>even further away that they can't see, because I need

0:38:10.360 --> 0:38:12.200
<v Speaker 2>to do the things I need to do, whether I'm

0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:14.680
<v Speaker 2>putting it down my throat or up my nose or

0:38:14.719 --> 0:38:19.399
<v Speaker 2>wherever that chemical was being inserted. And so I did

0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:23.360
<v Speaker 2>the opposite, and it would take me four darkening years

0:38:23.880 --> 0:38:26.840
<v Speaker 2>to come to understand what that was. That was me

0:38:27.440 --> 0:38:31.200
<v Speaker 2>in denial. It's me not listening to the truth, not

0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:35.080
<v Speaker 2>being self honest. These are basic life principles that as

0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:39.200
<v Speaker 2>a guy in his late thirties, was not accepting. And

0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:43.480
<v Speaker 2>I chose the alcohol because it meant celebration, it meant

0:38:43.880 --> 0:38:47.000
<v Speaker 2>we're okay. And even when it was just me alone,

0:38:47.040 --> 0:38:50.440
<v Speaker 2>in a room. I couldn't give that idea up. And finally,

0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:53.919
<v Speaker 2>you know, I finally had to. But for the most part,

0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:57.600
<v Speaker 2>everyone else seemed to develop into better, more mature thinking,

0:38:57.760 --> 0:38:58.320
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't.

0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:02.799
<v Speaker 1>In the book about the descent, you just said it's

0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:04.759
<v Speaker 1>about a four year period, and you do that in

0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:06.959
<v Speaker 1>great to day and it's very powerful and encourage people

0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:09.640
<v Speaker 1>to read or listen to it. And I enjoyed you

0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:12.920
<v Speaker 1>reading your book because it's covered there just a couple

0:39:12.920 --> 0:39:15.879
<v Speaker 1>of things that everybody wants to know. Sony, with someone

0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:20.680
<v Speaker 1>who has a story like yours, what was the low point?

0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Where where do the spiraling kind of hit rock bottom?

0:39:24.400 --> 0:39:27.479
<v Speaker 1>And you finally had to look yourself in the mirror

0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:29.839
<v Speaker 1>and not punch the mirror, which I know you said

0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:31.680
<v Speaker 1>you did a few times, and punch some walls and

0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:35.640
<v Speaker 1>sort of figure out, Hey, no one's going to come

0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:37.600
<v Speaker 1>save me. I've got to do this myself, and I've

0:39:37.640 --> 0:39:38.479
<v Speaker 1>got to start now.

0:39:39.239 --> 0:39:44.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, desperation is an interesting concept that I.

0:39:44.719 --> 0:39:47.480
<v Speaker 3>Think is where I where I was my turning point.

0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:53.840
<v Speaker 2>I got desperate enough after repeated, repeated failures and disappointments

0:39:53.920 --> 0:39:57.600
<v Speaker 2>and hurting people trying to deny it or make it

0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:02.120
<v Speaker 2>seem smaller than it was hurting myself. Eventually, it is

0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:06.160
<v Speaker 2>actually frustrating and confusing to have to keep up this

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:09.600
<v Speaker 2>facade in my life of lying about where I was

0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:12.560
<v Speaker 2>or how many drinks I had, or who I was with.

0:40:13.239 --> 0:40:15.880
<v Speaker 2>It becomes too much, and I get desperate for peace,

0:40:16.360 --> 0:40:19.080
<v Speaker 2>and I come to a place where I can't take

0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:21.759
<v Speaker 2>it anymore. And I know that people at that point

0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:24.440
<v Speaker 2>in their lives with addiction, we'll seek other answers. And

0:40:24.440 --> 0:40:27.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm thankful that I didn't think suicide was something I

0:40:27.239 --> 0:40:32.319
<v Speaker 2>would shoot for, because I was frustrated enough that I

0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:36.799
<v Speaker 2>didn't know what to do with myself. And so I

0:40:36.840 --> 0:40:41.840
<v Speaker 2>got one last intervention from an unlikely source, which is

0:40:41.880 --> 0:40:44.680
<v Speaker 2>my four year old daughter at the time. And you know,

0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:49.280
<v Speaker 2>you get intervening, interveent interventions from bandmates and loved ones

0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:52.120
<v Speaker 2>and you just look at them like a few You know,

0:40:52.320 --> 0:40:54.759
<v Speaker 2>I got this, I'm under control. But when your four

0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:58.719
<v Speaker 2>year old daughter says, you know, one morning dead, you

0:40:58.760 --> 0:41:02.480
<v Speaker 2>know what are you doing? And she means it purely

0:41:02.520 --> 0:41:04.840
<v Speaker 2>and sort of innocently, Dad, You know what are you

0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:08.640
<v Speaker 2>doing sleeping out here in the not in our house,

0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:13.000
<v Speaker 2>in the studio you've built and you're not inside with

0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:16.680
<v Speaker 2>mom and my brother and having pancakes and watching the

0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Mickey Mouse Club. What are you doing? And that pierces

0:41:20.480 --> 0:41:23.960
<v Speaker 2>you so directly in your heart that you can't even

0:41:24.320 --> 0:41:28.600
<v Speaker 2>give her some BS answer. I became desperate. I couldn't

0:41:29.120 --> 0:41:31.480
<v Speaker 2>manage my way out of a conversation with a four

0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:35.040
<v Speaker 2>year old because the truth was the answer to the question.

0:41:35.320 --> 0:41:38.799
<v Speaker 3>When she left and I was left with some idea.

0:41:38.480 --> 0:41:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Of the universe or God and myself, I said, I

0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:43.799
<v Speaker 2>don't know what I'm doing. And that was the first

0:41:43.880 --> 0:41:46.239
<v Speaker 2>time I'd said I don't know what I'm doing. I'm

0:41:46.239 --> 0:41:49.479
<v Speaker 2>not in control anymore. I don't like it. I don't

0:41:49.520 --> 0:41:53.239
<v Speaker 2>know where to go. And as a forty year old

0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:55.319
<v Speaker 2>man with an inflated ego.

0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:58.000
<v Speaker 3>I was burdened with what the hell am I going

0:41:58.040 --> 0:41:58.279
<v Speaker 3>to do?

0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:01.520
<v Speaker 2>And luckily I had one sort of scratch piece of

0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:05.520
<v Speaker 2>paper that a guy had given me previously, a guy

0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:08.760
<v Speaker 2>I used to party with who was willing to extend

0:42:09.200 --> 0:42:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the offer to me, who he saw me declining rapidly,

0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:15.040
<v Speaker 2>he said, you know, call me when when you're ready,

0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:18.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, big wink wink there like, call me when

0:42:18.480 --> 0:42:20.960
<v Speaker 2>you're ready to get some help. And I did. I

0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:22.680
<v Speaker 2>got I found that little piece of paper and call

0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:25.560
<v Speaker 2>that that guy that morning, and that was the beginning

0:42:25.600 --> 0:42:29.120
<v Speaker 2>of you know, surrendering and at least saying I don't

0:42:29.280 --> 0:42:31.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't have enough to do this on my own.

0:42:31.239 --> 0:42:34.120
<v Speaker 2>I need help. And I didn't want to.

0:42:34.480 --> 0:42:36.280
<v Speaker 3>I didn't want to have to do that because society

0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:39.160
<v Speaker 3>was telling me I am successful. I have two Grammys,

0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:40.200
<v Speaker 3>I have a house.

0:42:40.000 --> 0:42:42.560
<v Speaker 2>That I own, I have sports cars in my driveway

0:42:42.560 --> 0:42:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and a family that looks happy.

0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:46.439
<v Speaker 3>Why should I need to ask somebody else for help?

0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:49.640
<v Speaker 2>It's it's an ego issue. It's a power trip. So

0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:51.480
<v Speaker 2>I asked and I received.

0:42:54.120 --> 0:42:56.720
<v Speaker 1>For so many people, you write about it being daunting

0:42:56.840 --> 0:43:01.000
<v Speaker 1>because everything in your life that you had built was

0:43:01.040 --> 0:43:04.239
<v Speaker 1>some way connected to alcohol. So to suddenly break away

0:43:04.239 --> 0:43:08.960
<v Speaker 1>from that grip and obviously was going to be difficult.

0:43:09.200 --> 0:43:12.799
<v Speaker 1>You you talk in the book about another moment where

0:43:13.120 --> 0:43:16.320
<v Speaker 1>you found. This was a Tiger Woods wedding, I believe

0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:20.040
<v Speaker 1>in the Caribbean, and after a bender you found a

0:43:20.120 --> 0:43:25.120
<v Speaker 1>note apparently you had written to yourself, get help today,

0:43:25.560 --> 0:43:29.160
<v Speaker 1>And something that obviously was written in a fog with

0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:32.200
<v Speaker 1>a lack of clarity, was a moment of clarity for

0:43:32.239 --> 0:43:35.560
<v Speaker 1>you when you look back at that, and that's that's powerful.

0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:37.799
<v Speaker 1>You don't even remember writing the note, just just finding it.

0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Huh, well, your life. I was getting wet brained, a

0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:47.040
<v Speaker 2>term that is used when someone is either in a

0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:52.040
<v Speaker 2>NonStop you know, besides sleep situation with either drugs or

0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:56.240
<v Speaker 2>alcohol or both, and not taking in enough good nutrition

0:43:56.920 --> 0:44:00.200
<v Speaker 2>mentally and physically. I was getting a little wet and

0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:02.439
<v Speaker 2>so an example of as to what you just said,

0:44:03.000 --> 0:44:07.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm writing myself a note late night, probably drunk and

0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:11.160
<v Speaker 2>frustrated and foggy, and not finding it later and not

0:44:11.280 --> 0:44:14.480
<v Speaker 2>remembering exactly when I wrote it or what I knew

0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:16.560
<v Speaker 2>what it meant it meant. I must have been in

0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:19.520
<v Speaker 2>a real bad state that I don't remember, but I

0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:23.360
<v Speaker 2>was desperate enough and had some outs of desire to

0:44:23.719 --> 0:44:27.520
<v Speaker 2>try and remember that this hurts or this isn't great,

0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:30.520
<v Speaker 2>so I could find this piece of paper later maybe

0:44:30.560 --> 0:44:34.239
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I look at that, like what is who

0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:36.960
<v Speaker 2>is that? Or who am I even? You know, it's

0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:40.600
<v Speaker 2>distressing in some way, and I think that's one of

0:44:40.640 --> 0:44:42.840
<v Speaker 2>the ingredients that leads to, like I said, the ultimate

0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:46.040
<v Speaker 2>feeling of desperation. I don't know what to do and

0:44:46.080 --> 0:44:48.840
<v Speaker 2>this is just more evidence that I need someone.

0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:49.080
<v Speaker 3>To help me.

0:44:50.840 --> 0:44:52.840
<v Speaker 1>And fast forwarding. I don't want to give the impression

0:44:52.840 --> 0:44:56.120
<v Speaker 1>this was quick or easy. You do decide to go

0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:57.880
<v Speaker 1>to an AA meeting, but you write that on the

0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:00.400
<v Speaker 1>way to the AA meeting you had a couple drinks

0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:02.680
<v Speaker 1>and a couple of lines of coke, which is not

0:45:02.800 --> 0:45:07.560
<v Speaker 1>the textbook way to begin sony a career of sobriety.

0:45:07.600 --> 0:45:11.160
<v Speaker 1>But I guess that was just sort of a last

0:45:11.239 --> 0:45:13.399
<v Speaker 1>hurrah and then before you could kind of step into

0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:17.319
<v Speaker 1>this new world. I'm only laughing because you're laughing at

0:45:17.360 --> 0:45:19.040
<v Speaker 1>the screen in front of me. I know it's not

0:45:19.080 --> 0:45:20.759
<v Speaker 1>really to a lot of people funny at all, but

0:45:20.840 --> 0:45:22.319
<v Speaker 1>I recognize that.

0:45:23.040 --> 0:45:26.880
<v Speaker 2>No, I can look back after some time now and

0:45:27.239 --> 0:45:29.080
<v Speaker 2>writing the book, I was already at a place where

0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:32.240
<v Speaker 2>I could look back and say that looks really dumb

0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:35.680
<v Speaker 2>to say. I'm you know, I've woken up, and I

0:45:35.960 --> 0:45:38.719
<v Speaker 2>called the guy, and I'm going to make this sort

0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:43.400
<v Speaker 2>of obligatory surrender in concept and principle and try and

0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:45.800
<v Speaker 2>find out what people do that are in my situation.

0:45:46.520 --> 0:45:50.120
<v Speaker 2>And you know, fear of being a big driver of

0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:52.680
<v Speaker 2>my life at that time, fear of people knowing who

0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:55.359
<v Speaker 2>I really was, fear of people finding out where I've

0:45:55.400 --> 0:45:57.920
<v Speaker 2>been and the deviant things that I got into as

0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:02.000
<v Speaker 2>the alcoholism progressed a big thing. And my fear, i think,

0:46:02.080 --> 0:46:04.520
<v Speaker 2>honestly in that moment, was what if I go to

0:46:04.640 --> 0:46:07.920
<v Speaker 2>this group of people who were practicing these twelve steps

0:46:07.960 --> 0:46:12.359
<v Speaker 2>and I decide I'm like them and I can't drink anymore. Well,

0:46:12.360 --> 0:46:14.640
<v Speaker 2>that would mean last night was my last drink. I

0:46:14.800 --> 0:46:17.880
<v Speaker 2>can't have that. I've got some jagger master in the

0:46:17.920 --> 0:46:20.560
<v Speaker 2>fridge in the garage. I think I'll see what that

0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:23.000
<v Speaker 2>tastes like. So yeah, and I think I went to

0:46:23.600 --> 0:46:27.600
<v Speaker 2>sort of confess to my buddies that you guys will

0:46:27.640 --> 0:46:29.800
<v Speaker 2>never believe where I'm going. Right now, let's have a

0:46:29.880 --> 0:46:33.920
<v Speaker 2>drink to this. And yeah, it's backwards, asked, thinking for

0:46:34.000 --> 0:46:38.680
<v Speaker 2>sure again evidence that what was my mind? What kind

0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:40.560
<v Speaker 2>of shape was my mind? And at that time to

0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:43.680
<v Speaker 2>think that on my way to receive help, I'm going

0:46:43.760 --> 0:46:46.000
<v Speaker 2>to do the exact thing that has gotten me in

0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:49.440
<v Speaker 2>this terrible situation. That doesn't make sense to anyone that

0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:53.520
<v Speaker 2>doesn't think like the alcoholic and hearing laughter behind it

0:46:53.560 --> 0:46:57.600
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make sense either. Ironically, you know, I got in

0:46:57.680 --> 0:47:00.239
<v Speaker 2>front of a group of people who were laughing. That's

0:47:00.239 --> 0:47:03.600
<v Speaker 2>where I learned that, you know, once we heal in

0:47:03.840 --> 0:47:07.839
<v Speaker 2>any aspect of life, and mental illness is a hot

0:47:07.880 --> 0:47:10.319
<v Speaker 2>topic now too. When there is healing, there can be

0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:14.080
<v Speaker 2>laughter again. And I had forfeited my laughter. I was

0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:17.040
<v Speaker 2>too into deep for too long. And to get laughter

0:47:17.120 --> 0:47:21.000
<v Speaker 2>back and to hear people expressing gratitude in the form of,

0:47:21.880 --> 0:47:25.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, poking fun at one of another and themselves

0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:29.239
<v Speaker 2>was a great release for me. I thought, I think

0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:31.279
<v Speaker 2>I am definitely in the right place because I would

0:47:31.320 --> 0:47:33.960
<v Speaker 2>like to go back to life being fun and silly.

0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:38.319
<v Speaker 1>There's so many layers of the story among them. You

0:47:38.360 --> 0:47:41.160
<v Speaker 1>write in the book about getting divorced to your wife Debbie,

0:47:42.000 --> 0:47:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Mark Brian, your buddy and the guitarist, and Hudie has

0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:48.239
<v Speaker 1>also gotten divorced, I believe, prior to your divorce, and

0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:52.439
<v Speaker 1>his ex wife Laura, and then you guys fall in love,

0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:57.120
<v Speaker 1>and that's an interesting thing, whether or not your your

0:47:57.200 --> 0:48:01.399
<v Speaker 1>rock stars or old friends or not. You do write

0:48:01.400 --> 0:48:04.799
<v Speaker 1>about some awkwardness, some tension and having to work through

0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:06.880
<v Speaker 1>that as you sort of embrace a new love in

0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:07.520
<v Speaker 1>your life.

0:48:07.920 --> 0:48:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, did we miss a moment there for

0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:12.920
<v Speaker 2>a reality TV show. Chris, I feel like we probably

0:48:12.960 --> 0:48:14.919
<v Speaker 2>just should have got the camera crew in the living

0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:17.200
<v Speaker 2>room and said, let's roll. This thing is going to

0:48:17.280 --> 0:48:17.760
<v Speaker 2>be huge.

0:48:18.040 --> 0:48:20.000
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like the Brady Bunch. Eventually we end

0:48:20.080 --> 0:48:24.240
<v Speaker 1>up having five kids under one roof, so it's but

0:48:24.239 --> 0:48:25.160
<v Speaker 1>but no, I mean.

0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:28.719
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's one of those things that it's as

0:48:28.800 --> 0:48:33.440
<v Speaker 2>you might imagine. You know, two grown men, and you know,

0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:36.680
<v Speaker 2>an ex wife and now Laura, my new wife, trying

0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:41.480
<v Speaker 2>to negotiate how to raise five kids together in some ways,

0:48:41.760 --> 0:48:44.680
<v Speaker 2>and we all you hear, we've got to do this

0:48:44.719 --> 0:48:46.560
<v Speaker 2>for the kids, or let's put the kids first. But

0:48:47.080 --> 0:48:50.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's an easy word to say, but it's

0:48:50.520 --> 0:48:53.920
<v Speaker 2>harder in practice to decide what everyone's new roles are.

0:48:53.960 --> 0:48:56.520
<v Speaker 2>And for Mark and I I think as friends and bandmates,

0:48:56.560 --> 0:48:58.120
<v Speaker 2>we wanted to continue being bandmates.

0:48:58.160 --> 0:49:00.880
<v Speaker 3>We all felt hooting the Bluefish is worth everything.

0:49:00.920 --> 0:49:04.120
<v Speaker 2>Why should we stop our art and our ability to

0:49:04.200 --> 0:49:06.879
<v Speaker 2>raise money for charities and do something we love? Why

0:49:06.880 --> 0:49:07.600
<v Speaker 2>should we stop that?

0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:10.680
<v Speaker 3>Because relational difficulties are changes.

0:49:10.760 --> 0:49:13.840
<v Speaker 2>So I think we never felt like the band would

0:49:14.840 --> 0:49:17.600
<v Speaker 2>fall apart, but we had to decide who we were

0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.600
<v Speaker 2>for each other you know, it's one thing to do

0:49:20.640 --> 0:49:25.640
<v Speaker 2>with ex spouses that is difficult, but as friends, I

0:49:25.640 --> 0:49:27.400
<v Speaker 2>don't think a lot of people have to go through that.

0:49:27.440 --> 0:49:31.600
<v Speaker 2>And Mark and I have had to negotiate those those roles.

0:49:32.040 --> 0:49:34.799
<v Speaker 2>Who are we now Okay, now you're step fathering, or

0:49:35.600 --> 0:49:38.359
<v Speaker 2>now we're living in different towns and we're trying to

0:49:38.840 --> 0:49:44.160
<v Speaker 2>do school function and sports events and you know, drivers

0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:48.280
<v Speaker 2>license and kids like it's a mess on some levels

0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:52.879
<v Speaker 2>unless everybody that's in there cooperates and says, well, let's

0:49:52.880 --> 0:49:55.080
<v Speaker 2>answer this question. What's the best thing for that kid

0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:58.400
<v Speaker 2>at this moment. Is it for one of us to

0:49:58.400 --> 0:50:01.719
<v Speaker 2>stand up, as you know, in this time, to be

0:50:01.840 --> 0:50:04.239
<v Speaker 2>the leader. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it meant I had

0:50:04.239 --> 0:50:07.120
<v Speaker 2>to sit back and say I'm just a stepdad. I

0:50:07.200 --> 0:50:09.720
<v Speaker 2>got to sit back and let Mark be the dad.

0:50:10.120 --> 0:50:14.439
<v Speaker 2>And you negotiate all those things in real time through

0:50:14.480 --> 0:50:17.560
<v Speaker 2>the years, and then the next thing, you know, kids

0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:21.200
<v Speaker 2>are having girlfriends and boyfriends and like I said, learning

0:50:21.280 --> 0:50:24.160
<v Speaker 2>to drive cars and then going to college, and we're

0:50:24.160 --> 0:50:27.200
<v Speaker 2>at a place now in hindsight that it's kind of beautiful.

0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:29.000
<v Speaker 2>We all feel like we've.

0:50:30.480 --> 0:50:33.160
<v Speaker 3>Accomplished a thing, you know, to raise kids up to

0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:36.839
<v Speaker 3>certain points where they're out of the house and look

0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:42.280
<v Speaker 3>back and say, man, that worked. Somehow, that insanely crazy

0:50:42.320 --> 0:50:43.200
<v Speaker 3>thing worked.

0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:46.480
<v Speaker 2>And so I think we both have a gratitude for

0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:49.960
<v Speaker 2>each other and for the band and the greater, weirder

0:50:50.000 --> 0:50:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Hooty family.

0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:56.560
<v Speaker 1>That's beautifully put. I mean, it's an evolution process, Thank goodness.

0:50:56.560 --> 0:51:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Perhaps the kids welfare was a factor and decisive one

0:51:00.880 --> 0:51:02.120
<v Speaker 1>of you guys might have come to blows. It might

0:51:02.120 --> 0:51:03.440
<v Speaker 1>have been a different situation if you didn't know the

0:51:04.440 --> 0:51:07.520
<v Speaker 1>welfare of kids in there. But it's awesome. I know

0:51:07.560 --> 0:51:10.560
<v Speaker 1>it took time, it wasn't easy, but you guys seem

0:51:10.600 --> 0:51:12.239
<v Speaker 1>to be in a good place. And you know, back

0:51:12.239 --> 0:51:14.480
<v Speaker 1>in the music front, I mean, Hoody is still together.

0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:17.440
<v Speaker 1>You guys still play big shows. There was a massive

0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:20.800
<v Speaker 1>tour in it was the twenty nineteen which is the

0:51:20.840 --> 0:51:23.919
<v Speaker 1>twenty fifth anniversary of Crank p review the Monster album.

0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:26.560
<v Speaker 1>And you guys do still come together for Hoodie Fest

0:51:26.640 --> 0:51:31.800
<v Speaker 1>and for amazing charity causes and admits Darius's Monster solo

0:51:31.880 --> 0:51:36.160
<v Speaker 1>country Careerly, it's just so there's still plenty of music

0:51:36.400 --> 0:51:39.600
<v Speaker 1>and you still do see your bandmates I guess pretty regularly.

0:51:39.640 --> 0:51:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Then, yeah, you know, life develops and changes and are

0:51:44.200 --> 0:51:47.560
<v Speaker 2>we move and we move on, but there's always an

0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:53.239
<v Speaker 2>understanding that we started this thing as a band for

0:51:53.280 --> 0:51:56.440
<v Speaker 2>a damn good reason because we liked making music and

0:51:56.480 --> 0:52:00.840
<v Speaker 2>we liked each other. And the question came over the years,

0:52:00.920 --> 0:52:03.680
<v Speaker 2>how can you sustain that when you grow in different

0:52:03.680 --> 0:52:06.640
<v Speaker 2>ways and you have families, and then the families become

0:52:06.680 --> 0:52:10.080
<v Speaker 2>broken and then intertwined again, and then Darius has start

0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:12.520
<v Speaker 2>them in country is just another thing along the way

0:52:12.560 --> 0:52:16.799
<v Speaker 2>that what do you do with these changes? And that's

0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:19.719
<v Speaker 2>what it all ends up. The question that we get

0:52:19.760 --> 0:52:22.239
<v Speaker 2>to keep answering or is that what do you do

0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:25.080
<v Speaker 2>with change? It becomes a big theme. I go and

0:52:25.160 --> 0:52:27.759
<v Speaker 2>do a lot speaking and corporate speaking now and it's

0:52:27.800 --> 0:52:32.359
<v Speaker 2>about adapting to change because change keeps happening. And it's

0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:35.759
<v Speaker 2>a great question as we older men get into and

0:52:36.040 --> 0:52:38.800
<v Speaker 2>maybe are more successful at doing, is that you can't

0:52:38.800 --> 0:52:41.560
<v Speaker 2>stop change, so you better figure out how you're going

0:52:41.600 --> 0:52:45.120
<v Speaker 2>to adapt when you have changed that you didn't sign

0:52:45.160 --> 0:52:49.640
<v Speaker 2>up for, maybe change that you caused, maybe things you

0:52:49.719 --> 0:52:51.080
<v Speaker 2>just can't even control.

0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:53.800
<v Speaker 3>Because we want to live happy lives.

0:52:53.800 --> 0:52:56.320
<v Speaker 2>We're here to laugh and smile and have some joy,

0:52:56.840 --> 0:52:59.759
<v Speaker 2>and what do you do when you're handed, you know,

0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:04.120
<v Speaker 2>cards that aren't great. So I've enjoyed learning just enough

0:53:04.160 --> 0:53:06.640
<v Speaker 2>to put a microphone in front of my mouth and

0:53:06.880 --> 0:53:08.960
<v Speaker 2>talk to people like I know what I'm doing.

0:53:10.360 --> 0:53:11.759
<v Speaker 1>None of us know what we're doing. None of us

0:53:11.800 --> 0:53:13.960
<v Speaker 1>really know what's going on and what we're doing. But

0:53:14.320 --> 0:53:17.160
<v Speaker 1>I think you can make a convincing case that you've

0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:19.760
<v Speaker 1>learned some things. And I think one of the powerful

0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:25.799
<v Speaker 1>things about your message is that, Okay, you you keep

0:53:25.880 --> 0:53:28.400
<v Speaker 1>alcohol at bay. Many people out of humility when not

0:53:28.440 --> 0:53:31.440
<v Speaker 1>say beat it, but you keep alcoholism at bay. But

0:53:31.520 --> 0:53:33.600
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't solve all your problems, right, because that was

0:53:33.680 --> 0:53:35.759
<v Speaker 1>covering up some of the things that was numbing you

0:53:35.800 --> 0:53:37.280
<v Speaker 1>to some of the things. I think it's very powerful.

0:53:37.280 --> 0:53:39.000
<v Speaker 1>In your book you talk about this is important for

0:53:39.040 --> 0:53:44.200
<v Speaker 1>anybody confronting addiction, that just getting past that will not

0:53:44.400 --> 0:53:46.960
<v Speaker 1>fix everything. You had to do a lot of hard work, right.

0:53:47.719 --> 0:53:49.600
<v Speaker 1>You wondered if you could write a song. You wondered

0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:52.239
<v Speaker 1>if you could perform while sober, because it had been

0:53:52.280 --> 0:53:53.680
<v Speaker 1>so long since you've been sober.

0:53:54.000 --> 0:53:57.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and yeah, fear again, a lot of fear.

0:53:58.440 --> 0:54:00.319
<v Speaker 2>How am I going to do that? Or all the

0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:02.280
<v Speaker 2>things that I've been doing. Do I have to stop

0:54:02.360 --> 0:54:02.839
<v Speaker 2>doing them?

0:54:03.320 --> 0:54:08.200
<v Speaker 3>Or do they become boring? What happens here, Because if you've.

0:54:07.920 --> 0:54:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Centered everything around the party, and the party has to

0:54:11.120 --> 0:54:15.279
<v Speaker 2>dissolve your face with some real questions. And you know,

0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:21.240
<v Speaker 2>I was able to the obsession for alcohol started lowering

0:54:21.760 --> 0:54:26.120
<v Speaker 2>in correlation to me doing sort of a personal house cleaning,

0:54:26.440 --> 0:54:29.600
<v Speaker 2>a personal inventory of you know, really getting honest with

0:54:29.640 --> 0:54:33.879
<v Speaker 2>what my thoughts and my ideas and my fears meant

0:54:33.920 --> 0:54:38.239
<v Speaker 2>to be and how they drove me to bad outcomes.

0:54:38.280 --> 0:54:41.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, honestly, our problems are all the same, Chris right.

0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:45.240
<v Speaker 2>We have fears and doubts, and there's unfairness, and we're

0:54:45.360 --> 0:54:48.680
<v Speaker 2>self centered sometimes and we're prideful. We all have the

0:54:48.680 --> 0:54:52.239
<v Speaker 2>same problems. So when I started looking, I realized, yeah,

0:54:52.239 --> 0:54:54.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how to drink successfully, but mainly my

0:54:54.360 --> 0:54:58.040
<v Speaker 2>problems are just like everybody else's. I'm not that unique

0:54:58.040 --> 0:55:00.759
<v Speaker 2>as I thought I was. But the thing was, I said,

0:55:00.840 --> 0:55:03.879
<v Speaker 2>you want to see, uh, you think my problems are bad,

0:55:04.000 --> 0:55:06.279
<v Speaker 2>you ought to see my solutions, and this is one

0:55:07.000 --> 0:55:10.480
<v Speaker 2>and that really sums up what I got to, which

0:55:10.560 --> 0:55:13.279
<v Speaker 2>was like I have the same problems as everybody. My

0:55:13.360 --> 0:55:17.040
<v Speaker 2>solutions are really crap. I and mostly for many years

0:55:17.040 --> 0:55:20.120
<v Speaker 2>when they got bad, I drank because it temporarily eased them.

0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:25.160
<v Speaker 2>But as anyone is developing figure out what your solutions are,

0:55:25.280 --> 0:55:29.120
<v Speaker 2>it's about how do you face these life things that

0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:33.400
<v Speaker 2>are going to happen? People dying, people disappointing you, you

0:55:33.480 --> 0:55:36.239
<v Speaker 2>disappointing them. How do you face What are you going

0:55:36.320 --> 0:55:39.000
<v Speaker 2>to use as a solution Because we all have the

0:55:39.040 --> 0:55:40.239
<v Speaker 2>same damn problems.

0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Faith has become a very powerful part of your life.

0:55:44.480 --> 0:55:49.000
<v Speaker 1>Your music is largely faith based people. You have a

0:55:49.080 --> 0:55:52.080
<v Speaker 1>terrific EP at Remember Tomorrow, which I enjoy listening to.

0:55:52.400 --> 0:55:54.759
<v Speaker 1>And there's a song Sony called Unafraid and one of

0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:57.080
<v Speaker 1>the lines is you want to fight the fear and

0:55:57.160 --> 0:56:02.200
<v Speaker 1>live my life unafraid? And are you able to live

0:56:02.239 --> 0:56:07.120
<v Speaker 1>it free of fear that those old demons might come

0:56:07.160 --> 0:56:09.560
<v Speaker 1>back and try to take control or is there still

0:56:09.920 --> 0:56:12.759
<v Speaker 1>is that what you're trying to be unafraid of at

0:56:12.800 --> 0:56:13.720
<v Speaker 1>this point in your life?

0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, like was mentioned before, the moment that an athlete

0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:21.840
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have to think about the technique or the moment,

0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 2>the songwriter doesn't have to think in a complex way

0:56:26.040 --> 0:56:28.520
<v Speaker 2>about a lyric. It just is flowing out. In a

0:56:28.560 --> 0:56:31.880
<v Speaker 2>similar way, my life today is free of the obsession.

0:56:32.000 --> 0:56:34.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't have to worry about the details of Oh,

0:56:34.560 --> 0:56:36.960
<v Speaker 2>there's a bar down the street, or there's a liquor

0:56:37.040 --> 0:56:39.360
<v Speaker 2>store there, or I'm hanging around the people that I

0:56:39.440 --> 0:56:41.959
<v Speaker 2>used to party with. I don't have to worry about

0:56:42.000 --> 0:56:44.239
<v Speaker 2>those that I can be more in the moment as

0:56:44.239 --> 0:56:48.320
<v Speaker 2>a result of having solved some of my solution difficulties,

0:56:48.680 --> 0:56:51.520
<v Speaker 2>so I get to be free to a large degree.

0:56:51.680 --> 0:56:54.560
<v Speaker 3>If my motivation is right, I can go anywhere I want.

0:56:54.640 --> 0:56:57.280
<v Speaker 2>I can go to the concert where people are partying

0:56:57.280 --> 0:57:01.520
<v Speaker 2>and going next level. I can go backstay to shows

0:57:01.560 --> 0:57:04.319
<v Speaker 2>where people are doing crazy things. I can be in

0:57:04.320 --> 0:57:07.600
<v Speaker 2>a bar, I can do tailgating. And that's the result

0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:11.840
<v Speaker 2>of being free. I've got a serenity that is higher

0:57:12.120 --> 0:57:15.799
<v Speaker 2>and unafraid means that I'm not afraid of going back there.

0:57:16.080 --> 0:57:19.240
<v Speaker 2>There's a mention in a book that says we recoil

0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:22.800
<v Speaker 2>from something from alcohol like a hot flame, like and

0:57:22.840 --> 0:57:25.560
<v Speaker 2>I know today to drink or to pick up a

0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:28.160
<v Speaker 2>drug or a chemical is like it would be like

0:57:28.240 --> 0:57:31.240
<v Speaker 2>grabbing a hot flame. So I'm not too worried about

0:57:31.920 --> 0:57:35.160
<v Speaker 2>that hot flame anymore. I've got that much sense. The

0:57:35.200 --> 0:57:37.320
<v Speaker 2>way I solve it is trying to share it with

0:57:37.360 --> 0:57:41.200
<v Speaker 2>other guys. Who are you trying to get in on

0:57:41.240 --> 0:57:43.919
<v Speaker 2>this journey? And that helps me remember who I've been.

0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:47.600
<v Speaker 2>That helps me remember what the solutions are and unafraid

0:57:47.640 --> 0:57:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a song I'm so happy to sing at all of

0:57:49.920 --> 0:57:53.880
<v Speaker 2>my events reminds people that we do have to get

0:57:53.920 --> 0:57:57.280
<v Speaker 2>through some things. We do have to find better solutions.

0:57:57.400 --> 0:57:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Some of our ideas that we've been in love with

0:57:59.760 --> 0:58:02.640
<v Speaker 2>that thought works so well, may not be great ideas.

0:58:03.120 --> 0:58:05.520
<v Speaker 2>But when we can find the better solutions, we don't

0:58:05.560 --> 0:58:07.200
<v Speaker 2>have to live in fear. We can live in a

0:58:07.760 --> 0:58:10.280
<v Speaker 2>higher piece and on a higher plane. And that's what

0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:14.560
<v Speaker 2>my spirituality is today, finding out what piece means, how

0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:17.480
<v Speaker 2>I can achieve it. That I can't live a fully

0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:21.800
<v Speaker 2>peaceful life, that's unrealistic too. We do have suffering as humans,

0:58:21.840 --> 0:58:25.760
<v Speaker 2>but I'm afraid I want to give people an ounce

0:58:25.760 --> 0:58:29.280
<v Speaker 2>of courage to say, you take that leap, even if

0:58:29.320 --> 0:58:32.360
<v Speaker 2>it's facing something you've been trying to ignore, you know.

0:58:33.160 --> 0:58:35.840
<v Speaker 2>So that's one of my favorites. I'm glad you lashed

0:58:35.840 --> 0:58:38.280
<v Speaker 2>out of that one. It's been a fun one for me.

0:58:40.160 --> 0:58:41.680
<v Speaker 1>I like one of the things you say you'll live

0:58:41.720 --> 0:58:44.600
<v Speaker 1>by now feel it and heal it. In other words,

0:58:44.600 --> 0:58:46.840
<v Speaker 1>don't try to push it aside, don't try to deny

0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:50.520
<v Speaker 1>those things, whatever lightness or darkness they bring, and then

0:58:50.560 --> 0:58:55.120
<v Speaker 1>heal it. But the process of working your way to

0:58:55.160 --> 0:58:58.120
<v Speaker 1>a place where that's possible has been It has been

0:58:58.160 --> 0:59:00.840
<v Speaker 1>cool to hear you read about and and talk about here.

0:59:01.320 --> 0:59:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're not you know, we men are not gifted

0:59:04.160 --> 0:59:06.760
<v Speaker 2>unfortunately with feeling things and healing things. We don't want

0:59:06.800 --> 0:59:08.720
<v Speaker 2>to even talk about them. And I think that's part

0:59:08.720 --> 0:59:13.360
<v Speaker 2>of our unfortunate nature is compared to the females, is

0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:15.920
<v Speaker 2>that they're willing to talk. Let's be honest.

0:59:15.920 --> 0:59:17.840
<v Speaker 3>They can talk through some things, and they can get

0:59:17.840 --> 0:59:20.400
<v Speaker 3>things up. They're willing to feel it and talk about it.

0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:22.280
<v Speaker 2>And we, as men, and I talk to a lot

0:59:22.280 --> 0:59:25.520
<v Speaker 2>of men's group, aren't quite wired that way.

0:59:25.720 --> 0:59:27.080
<v Speaker 3>And so I think we have to work a little

0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:29.600
<v Speaker 3>extra hard to say, gosh, Chris.

0:59:29.920 --> 0:59:32.400
<v Speaker 2>What are your feelings now? And you know, are you hurt?

0:59:32.920 --> 0:59:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Are you afraid? We don't want to do that, but

0:59:35.520 --> 0:59:38.760
<v Speaker 2>we need to do that. And so the speeches I

0:59:38.800 --> 0:59:42.320
<v Speaker 2>get up to give, or the moments I get with

0:59:42.360 --> 0:59:45.960
<v Speaker 2>a microphone are to encourage a lot of the men, especially,

0:59:46.520 --> 0:59:48.680
<v Speaker 2>come on, guys, we got to learn to talk. This

0:59:48.760 --> 0:59:50.640
<v Speaker 2>is a skill we might have to learn.

0:59:50.480 --> 0:59:53.440
<v Speaker 3>Late in life, but when do need to grab hold of.

0:59:53.480 --> 0:59:58.720
<v Speaker 1>It, that's powerful the course of your life. I don't

0:59:58.720 --> 1:00:01.000
<v Speaker 1>know if you're a reflective person. All the different chapters,

1:00:01.000 --> 1:00:03.120
<v Speaker 1>all the different piece of the tapestry that we all have,

1:00:03.600 --> 1:00:07.320
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty remarkable. I would like to end with a

1:00:07.360 --> 1:00:09.000
<v Speaker 1>funny story that you tell in the book. I mean,

1:00:09.080 --> 1:00:14.360
<v Speaker 1>you talk about during those those amazing years of the

1:00:14.440 --> 1:00:17.920
<v Speaker 1>rise of hoodie, you're playing a gig while watching a

1:00:18.040 --> 1:00:21.560
<v Speaker 1>US soccer game against Columbia. You've got a monitor there

1:00:21.600 --> 1:00:24.080
<v Speaker 1>that Clintons are in the house. You're playing this gig

1:00:24.200 --> 1:00:27.120
<v Speaker 1>while watching soccer. That's a very faithful game that the

1:00:27.240 --> 1:00:30.360
<v Speaker 1>US soccer fans might remember. We won the game over Columbia.

1:00:30.600 --> 1:00:33.240
<v Speaker 1>It was an own goal by Andres Escobar, who ended

1:00:33.320 --> 1:00:36.040
<v Speaker 1>up going back to Columbia and being murdered because of that.

1:00:36.360 --> 1:00:39.040
<v Speaker 1>But this is the idea that that and sports and

1:00:39.120 --> 1:00:41.439
<v Speaker 1>music we're always intertwined. For you guys, you're playing a gig,

1:00:41.520 --> 1:00:46.160
<v Speaker 1>you're watching soccer game, and then after that, years later,

1:00:46.360 --> 1:00:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Alexi Lalas, who was part of that group ends up

1:00:49.240 --> 1:00:52.560
<v Speaker 1>opening for your band in Europe. Yes, he's a pretty

1:00:52.600 --> 1:00:54.880
<v Speaker 1>damn good musician actually, as well as being a Fox

1:00:54.920 --> 1:00:59.120
<v Speaker 1>broadcaster and an ex soccer and and practical jokes are

1:00:59.160 --> 1:01:02.440
<v Speaker 1>a part of of the end of tour rituals, right

1:01:02.480 --> 1:01:05.120
<v Speaker 1>with the opening band and the headliner. I've seen I've

1:01:05.120 --> 1:01:08.800
<v Speaker 1>seen a few of them unfold. We we don't have

1:01:08.880 --> 1:01:10.680
<v Speaker 1>time to get into it. But Radiohead and Ram played

1:01:10.720 --> 1:01:13.920
<v Speaker 1>jokes on each other. So Alexi's band opens for you guys,

1:01:13.960 --> 1:01:16.400
<v Speaker 1>and then ends up pranking you pretty good. It's one

1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:17.360
<v Speaker 1>of the better ones I've heard.

1:01:18.120 --> 1:01:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they really thought it out. It took a little

1:01:21.400 --> 1:01:24.560
<v Speaker 2>bit of work as well. Sometimes you don't have to

1:01:24.600 --> 1:01:28.840
<v Speaker 2>do much, it's just running on stage and being disturbing,

1:01:28.960 --> 1:01:33.880
<v Speaker 2>but sometimes it includes outfits or bigger pranks that need

1:01:34.240 --> 1:01:37.680
<v Speaker 2>some thinking. And theirs was great because they wanted to

1:01:37.680 --> 1:01:39.800
<v Speaker 2>come out and interrupt our song.

1:01:39.600 --> 1:01:43.000
<v Speaker 3>Which is a typical way to to uh do it.

1:01:43.320 --> 1:01:45.520
<v Speaker 2>But and so they do a little cute little dance

1:01:45.640 --> 1:01:47.560
<v Speaker 2>that's during the only one to be with you, And

1:01:47.800 --> 1:01:49.600
<v Speaker 2>there's sort of two of them on either side of

1:01:50.120 --> 1:01:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Dean and Mark and I'm back there laughing. Oh, they're

1:01:53.080 --> 1:01:55.720
<v Speaker 2>doing another kind of stripping. They're stripping down. Well, they're

1:01:55.760 --> 1:01:59.040
<v Speaker 2>doing little stripped easier people. This is getting interesting. They're

1:01:59.040 --> 1:02:02.080
<v Speaker 2>in their boxers and they're continuing to dance, and the

1:02:02.120 --> 1:02:05.440
<v Speaker 2>crowd is now really drawn in. They're like, oh, this

1:02:06.000 --> 1:02:09.080
<v Speaker 2>is going to be a good prank. And as they

1:02:09.360 --> 1:02:12.560
<v Speaker 2>do a sort of coordinated dance move, they turn around

1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:17.520
<v Speaker 2>with their backsides to the audience and drop trial and

1:02:17.560 --> 1:02:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I can't see that they have written across all of

1:02:19.920 --> 1:02:25.560
<v Speaker 2>their arses only want to be with you in It's

1:02:25.600 --> 1:02:29.200
<v Speaker 2>one of those times where you're thankful to be not

1:02:29.240 --> 1:02:36.200
<v Speaker 2>in the audience being the drummer. And this moment is

1:02:36.320 --> 1:02:41.920
<v Speaker 2>even made better imagining later, which Alectui recounted tom when

1:02:41.920 --> 1:02:45.120
<v Speaker 2>they realize, oh, we've written sharpies on our asses. Now

1:02:45.160 --> 1:02:47.919
<v Speaker 2>we have to get this off. And that's what true

1:02:47.960 --> 1:02:50.760
<v Speaker 2>friends and bandmates are for, ladies and gentlemen. Is who

1:02:50.800 --> 1:02:53.480
<v Speaker 2>is willing to scrub the title of a hoodie the

1:02:53.480 --> 1:02:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Buffers song off? Your bandmates?

1:02:55.200 --> 1:03:01.280
<v Speaker 1>But your life has been filled with the silliness and

1:03:01.360 --> 1:03:06.320
<v Speaker 1>fun but also some seriousness and deep power. And thanks

1:03:06.360 --> 1:03:08.920
<v Speaker 1>for bringing all of it, Sony and delivering the message.

1:03:08.960 --> 1:03:12.120
<v Speaker 1>And it's great to see in a great place. I'd

1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:14.880
<v Speaker 1>love to see you actually in person and reconnect because

1:03:15.800 --> 1:03:18.200
<v Speaker 1>we do share some common things. But you're out there

1:03:18.240 --> 1:03:21.000
<v Speaker 1>doing some great, great stuff and inspiring people and delivering

1:03:21.040 --> 1:03:23.040
<v Speaker 1>that message. So thanks for sharing it with me today.

1:03:23.680 --> 1:03:24.680
<v Speaker 2>Thanks so much, y'all.

1:03:26.120 --> 1:03:29.520
<v Speaker 1>I really enjoyed that conversation. You know, one of the

1:03:29.600 --> 1:03:32.640
<v Speaker 1>joys of a podcast is, besides getting to know new people,

1:03:33.040 --> 1:03:35.800
<v Speaker 1>once in a while, if you're lucky, you can reconnect

1:03:35.800 --> 1:03:38.640
<v Speaker 1>with a very old acquaintance. I know, you know the

1:03:38.640 --> 1:03:41.480
<v Speaker 1>feeling maybe you haven't talked to him in many years,

1:03:41.960 --> 1:03:45.160
<v Speaker 1>but you just start talking and it clicks and it

1:03:45.160 --> 1:03:49.840
<v Speaker 1>feels great. Please check out Sony's book Swimming with the Blowfish,

1:03:50.160 --> 1:03:53.840
<v Speaker 1>and his EP is called Remember Tomorrow. You can follow

1:03:53.920 --> 1:03:57.360
<v Speaker 1>him on Instagram at Sony Time sixty four and it's

1:03:57.440 --> 1:04:02.080
<v Speaker 1>s O Ni Time sixty four. As always, grateful to

1:04:02.120 --> 1:04:05.640
<v Speaker 1>my co executive producer Jennifer Dempster and other folks on Octagon.

1:04:05.840 --> 1:04:06.720
<v Speaker 1>I'll talk to you soon.