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Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is drummer and composer Stuart Copeland, who

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Speaker 1: has a new book, Police Diaries. Why a book? Why now, Stuart?

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Speaker 2: Well, these diaries have been sitting in my drawer right here.

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Speaker 2: And I did a book before of all my adventures

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Speaker 2: after the police, and I discovered something very surprising, shocking

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Speaker 2: in fact, that nobody could care less about my life

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Speaker 2: after the police, no matter how amazing the adventures that

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Speaker 2: I had with royalty, with fine arts, with world travel,

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Speaker 2: you know, arrested a night in jail and Zaire who cares.

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Speaker 1: Way wait wait wait wait, wait wait wait, stop for

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Speaker 1: a second, tell us about being arrested and spending a

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Speaker 1: night in jail and Zayir Well, I was.

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Speaker 2: Making a movie, a documentary and kind of on a

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Speaker 2: shoe string budget, crossing Africa looking for the origins of

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Speaker 2: American music. And by the way, I was looking in

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Speaker 2: the wrong place. The origins of American music are New Orleans, Louisiana.

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Speaker 2: That's a whole nother rant about the origins of America's

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Speaker 2: most important and significant artistic and cultural feature. Another rant. Anyhow,

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Speaker 2: I'm there crossing Africa, and I pull into Kinshasa and

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Speaker 2: on my way across the Congo River into Brazaville and

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Speaker 2: I get out of Kinshasa just fine hit Brazaville and

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Speaker 2: the guy says, you haven't got a Zaire and entry

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Speaker 2: or exit visa, and that's a problem. And I was

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Speaker 2: with my director J. P. Douta, who is like the

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Speaker 2: genuine article Indiana Jones, man of the Jungle, and he

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Speaker 2: would not reach into his pocket give the guy ten bucks,

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Speaker 2: you know. Anyhow, they put us on a boat back

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Speaker 2: over to Zaire, back across the crocodile and fested, fast

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Speaker 2: flowing Congo River that separates these two halves of Congo.

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Speaker 2: And we got back to Kinshasa and a guy's there

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Speaker 2: and he's surrounded by people and everybody's you know, there's

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Speaker 2: not like a line or stand behind. Everybody's there throwing

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Speaker 2: their passports in his face, trying to get his attention.

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Speaker 2: And he plucks one, looks at it, Ah, that's a problem,

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Speaker 2: hands it back and he sees, you know, us two there,

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Speaker 2: the American and the Belgian, and he looks at them

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Speaker 2: and my, my, my, Indiana. Joe's started to get a

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Speaker 2: little heated and disrespectful even and so suddenly many have

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Speaker 2: like that. Suddenly weird dancing cheek to cheek with the

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Speaker 2: men with guns and they're frog marching us out of

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Speaker 2: the building and handcuffing us to a bench and where

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Speaker 2: we go, oh, well this is a fine how do

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Speaker 2: you do? Uh? And the waves of humanity and we're

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Speaker 2: watching boats come down the Congo River and pulling up

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Speaker 2: the port where they pull the convicts off. I'm digressing

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Speaker 2: a little bit here, stop me when you're bored anyhow.

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Speaker 1: Well you get in jail, how long you're in jail?

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Speaker 1: And how do you get out?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Overnight? Uh? You know, we're chained to the bench

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Speaker 2: and this is all going on eventually, you know, the

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Speaker 2: sun goes down and it's getting evening and changing the

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Speaker 2: guard and have we been forgotten or what? And I

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Speaker 2: can hear this music coming out of the guardhouse and

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Speaker 2: I sort of put my note hello, uh beau soir

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Speaker 2: uh new song e? See hello? And the guy pokes

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Speaker 2: his head obviously a different guy. What are you? What

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Speaker 2: are you doing here? Kind of thing? Is it? Well,

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Speaker 2: it's all a big mistaken Oh never mind. They took

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Speaker 2: us and they took us into a building, kind of

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Speaker 2: a building shed. I couldn't even give it the dignity

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Speaker 2: of being a proper prison, you know, but they locked

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Speaker 2: us up for the night man a few hours later,

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Speaker 2: and we saw one white guy go by. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you're in Africa, you one thing that strikes you

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Speaker 2: about Africa. There are no black people. There are old people,

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Speaker 2: young people, tall people, fat people, skinny people, colorful, rich, poor, whatever.

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Speaker 2: The blackness just you don't see that anymore until you're

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Speaker 2: in that situation. One white guy goes by, you see

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Speaker 2: one white person, and that person saw us and notified

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Speaker 2: the Belgian ambassador and who showed up with beer for

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Speaker 2: the guards and cool things out. We had to spend

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Speaker 2: the night because Ahab is going to be back in

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Speaker 2: the morning and we don't want to mess with you know. Hey, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was sort of bribery. Took care of it next morning.

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Speaker 2: Oh sorry about a little misunderstanding. We were back of

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Speaker 2: the boat up to over the bridge, to over the

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Speaker 2: river to Brazzaville and spend the next couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: in the northern jungles of the Congo up there on

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Speaker 2: the Olesso River with the.

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Speaker 1: Pygmies, Okay, so this book, did you This isn't in.

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Speaker 2: The book I wrote? Then nobody could care less about

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Speaker 2: this book. The book that we're talking about is groveling

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Speaker 2: in London as starving musicians going nowhere. And this is

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Speaker 2: the hungry years when we started to achieve success. You know,

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Speaker 2: one arena, one state. They all look alike after a while.

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Speaker 2: But that hungry part, when we were in London with

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Speaker 2: no hits, no credibility, that's the interesting part of the story.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. Your father was in

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Speaker 1: the CIA? Did you know that?

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Speaker 2: I assumed it everyone in Beyroot Lebanon if their dad

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Speaker 2: wasn't in the CIA or a spy of some kind.

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Speaker 2: The kids were bragging on that they were, you know,

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Speaker 2: and so it was sort of what bay Root is

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Speaker 2: all about. It was kind of a nexus of espionage

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Speaker 2: and intrigue in the Middle East. It was a power

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Speaker 2: place and everybody's dad was a spot. Isn't yours? And

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Speaker 2: one day my brother Miles comes home from schools is dad,

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Speaker 2: are you a spine? To which our father replied, who

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Speaker 2: wants to know?

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Speaker 1: What was his cover?

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Speaker 2: Cultural at And it was noticed by some that the

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Speaker 2: cultural attache had it as basically what I could see

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Speaker 2: of what it looks like is cocktail parties, socializing. And

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Speaker 2: at these soires thrown by my parents, my very sophisticated

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Speaker 2: mother and my fast talking father, there were playwrights and

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Speaker 2: poets and such an interesting number of men in uniform

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Speaker 2: for some reason. Amongst the poets and playwrights and tenor singers,

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Speaker 2: and the deal was is there there were cultivating and

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Speaker 2: grooming colonels who might one day be useful.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it was billed Beyroot as the Paris of the

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Speaker 1: mid East. It ultimately got bobbed out, never recover. What

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Speaker 1: was it like when you lived there.

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Speaker 2: Well, we felt under privileged. We didn't have TV. In fact,

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Speaker 2: TV did arrive while we were there. I was in

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Speaker 2: they rooted for ten years, and before that entire I

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Speaker 2: left America when I was two months old and didn't

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Speaker 2: get back till I was eighteen. So in Beirut, when

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Speaker 2: TV arrived in black and white, suddenly there were you know,

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Speaker 2: Bayot Skyline had TV antennas everywhere, but the shows were

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Speaker 2: in Arabic and French, or in American shows the Virginian

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Speaker 2: Bonanza and such dubbed into Arabic and or French with

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Speaker 2: subtitles not in English. And so I grew up on

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Speaker 2: all these American classic shows in Arabic. And the first

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Speaker 2: time I heard Bonanza in English, oh man, those voices

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Speaker 2: are all wrong. You know. Has has a high, squeak voice,

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Speaker 2: whereas in Arabic he had this low southern Lebanese Palestinian

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Speaker 2: kind of voice. It was much more, you know, guttural,

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Speaker 2: and much you know, went with that big physical statue

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Speaker 2: that he had.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so TV comes along, are you therefore addicted because

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Speaker 1: it's a new thing. Just watch an occasional program.

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Speaker 2: Well, they only had the occasional program. It wasn't like

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Speaker 2: you can watch TV all day now. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: the first television in our household was from our maid,

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Speaker 2: our nurse maid, you know, in what was then called

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Speaker 2: the Third World, because they weren't with the Ruskies and

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Speaker 2: they went with us during the Cold War, there were

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Speaker 2: the people who were unaligned in that part of the world.

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Speaker 2: A diplomat's salary could go a very very long way.

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Speaker 2: So we lived like naybobs. We had a chauffeur, gardeners, cooks, nannies,

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Speaker 2: maids and so on. But the main name Soriat, who

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Speaker 2: was alsoinion. She what she got a television and would

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Speaker 2: let us watch it if we were good boys and girls.

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Speaker 2: So the only discipline that was imposed on the Copeland

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Speaker 2: brats was by Soriah using her television, and we would

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Speaker 2: be good boys and girls for the duration of the

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Speaker 2: Virginian We didn't realize the value of it until later,

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Speaker 2: looking back at the time, we felt underprivileged over in America.

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Speaker 2: You know, we were in an American community school, the

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Speaker 2: American Community School, and people we knew vaguely that over

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Speaker 2: on the other side of lands and oceans is this

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Speaker 2: shining light on a hill where everything is new, modern

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Speaker 2: and clean. But so we aspired to America and we

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Speaker 2: dreamed of it being tried to be as American as

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Speaker 2: we could be, even though we were all a long

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Speaker 2: way from home.

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Speaker 1: Okay, would you go back and visit or you were

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Speaker 1: just there for the duration?

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Speaker 2: I would I have been back to visit the.

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Speaker 1: Reverse when you were living in Cairo, When you're living

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Speaker 1: in Lebanon, did you come back to the US or

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Speaker 1: did you stay in Europe in the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: There was one trip that we made back to Woodside.

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Speaker 2: You know, basically I was born in a suburb of

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Speaker 2: the Cia Woodside, Alexandria, Virginia, and but just young enough

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Speaker 2: that I could barely remember it. But no, the rest

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Speaker 2: of the time I was there. After Beirut, I went

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Speaker 2: to boarding school in England AND's Darkest Somerset until until

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Speaker 2: I hit eighteen, actually nineteen, when I got my draft number,

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Speaker 2: which was two hundred and eighty six or something, which

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Speaker 2: meant that I was safe. I was on the next

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Speaker 2: plane over to pick up my college education in California.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So how old were you when you left Lebanon?

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Speaker 2: Left Lebanon at fourteen?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what's the status of the Beatles in music

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Speaker 1: when you're in Lebanon?

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Speaker 2: Huge? They landed at Bayroot Airport and I have footage.

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Speaker 2: I don't know where this footage came from, but somebody

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Speaker 2: got it and sent it to me of my brother

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Speaker 2: in a Beatles wig at the Bayroot airport along with

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Speaker 2: his girlfriend, her sister and all their friends, squealing at

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Speaker 2: the Beatles who arrived on the tarmac, came out of

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Speaker 2: the thing kind of waved from the from the airplane

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Speaker 2: doorway the top of the stairs, and they had one

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Speaker 2: wrong beetle amongst them. I'll have to check the history books,

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Speaker 2: but apparently they did a tour of the Far East

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Speaker 2: or somewhere with either John or Paul missing and some

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Speaker 2: kind of replacement which is weird, which I've never read

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Speaker 2: about anywhere else. But there's one wrong beatle amongst them,

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Speaker 2: and they were on their way and just stopped off.

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Speaker 2: You know, the plane stopped. They didn't get off the plane,

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Speaker 2: but it flew through. That was a big event.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So when did you start being exposed to music?

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Speaker 2: Well, my father was a jazz player and he played

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Speaker 2: trumpet until the World War broke out and he joined

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Speaker 2: the military and became an intelligence and so on. But

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Speaker 2: my I am the youngest of four. My father filled

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Speaker 2: the house with musical instruments. There was a big grand piano,

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Speaker 2: there was guitars, there was you know, he got me

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Speaker 2: started on a trombone, and then I discovered hitting a drum.

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Speaker 2: Now this was dramatic because I was a late developer,

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Speaker 2: and uh.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean you were a laid developer.

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Speaker 2: I was the run of the litter. Everyone else, my agent,

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Speaker 2: at the age of twelve, was beginning to shave, and uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, their voices were dropping and you know, they're

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Speaker 2: suddenly becoming men. And I was still a squeaky little kid.

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Speaker 1: So how was that emotionally?

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Speaker 2: Well, I was squeaky. I was the youngest of the siblings,

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Speaker 2: which meant that I was kind of behind anyway. But

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Speaker 2: even in my age group at school, somehow I was

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Speaker 2: a little bit small or less grown up. Then I

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Speaker 2: got on a drum set and suddenly, within a heartbeat,

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Speaker 2: I am an eight hundred pounds silver back motherfucker swinging

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Speaker 2: through the trees. Kiss my ass, And that, just like

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Speaker 2: the power of the drums just suddenly gave me what

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00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,600
Speaker 2: I had been lacking. Fuck shaving. I got this drum

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00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 2: that I can scare people with.

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Speaker 1: And do you ever take any drum lessons?

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Speaker 2: Yes, my father as soon as he spotted that. You know,

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Speaker 2: any parent can look at their children and you know,

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Speaker 2: give them music lessons a song. And the clue is

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Speaker 2: that if you have to say, uh, Susan, I think

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Speaker 2: it's time for your piano practice, forget, you're wasting your time.

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Speaker 2: If it's Susan, will you just shut up for a minute. Okay, there,

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Speaker 2: you got a musician in the family, and I was

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00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,839
Speaker 2: that kid. As soon as I got a snare drum

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Speaker 2: and I'm banging on morning, day through the night and

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Speaker 2: will not shut up. Then my dad, to make matters worse,

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Speaker 2: got me the rest of the drum set, and I

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Speaker 2: would not shut up on that. And my brother Ian,

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Speaker 2: who was my agent when I was twelve, still was

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Speaker 2: my agent fifty years later and got me into a band,

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Speaker 2: the Black Knights, And we played the High We played

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Speaker 2: the American Community School, we played Manor House, the British School,

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00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 2: we played the British Embassy, Beach Club and other illustrious

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Speaker 2: venues across Bay Route.

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Speaker 1: And what did you play?

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Speaker 2: We played kink songs, We got to get animals, We

241
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 2: got to get out of this place. House of the

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00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 2: Rising Sun James Brown. In fact, I still have the

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Speaker 2: cold shakes that one song, feel Good Dead, like I

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00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 2: knew that I would. Okay, I'm getting nervous. That's coming

245
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Speaker 2: up there. Jet dun dun dun dun dun dun dun

246
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 2: dun dun dun dundun. How many duns are there? And

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00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,440
Speaker 2: I lie awake at night even now trying to count

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00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,600
Speaker 2: them out. But when I was twelve, that was the

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Speaker 2: moment of terror in the in the set.

250
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Speaker 1: What was the brand of your first set.

251
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Speaker 2: Uh? It was le Fema uh And I had I

252
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 2: know that because I had the snare je on my

253
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 2: cap for a long time. The rest of the drums

254
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 2: were rented, so but the le Fema was mine. My

255
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,840
Speaker 2: father had already invested in lots of musical instruments, which

256
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 2: didn't take with my older siblings, so he just rented

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00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 2: me a drum set until he was sure that, okay,

258
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Speaker 2: this ain't going away, Stuart, would you please stop for

259
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 2: a second. And that was when I got to London,

260
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 2: and that drum set was a premiere baby blue pearl

261
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 2: drum set.

262
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,360
Speaker 1: What brand do you play now?

263
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 2: I played Tama drums at a certain point. My first

264
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,800
Speaker 2: my first professional record company bought drum set, which was

265
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 2: a big double Ludwig Perspect's Vistaite monstrosity. Was so cool.

266
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 2: It didn't sound that great, But I was making ends

267
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 2: meet in those days by reviewing equipment for music magazines,

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00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 2: and one of the things that I reviewed was these

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00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 2: Japanese drums. Now we're talking nineteen seventy six and nineteen

270
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:37,840
Speaker 2: seventy six, Japanese meant cheap. Now it means extremely high tech,

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00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 2: high quality, you know, advanced engineering. But that was the

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00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 2: day of the Japanese knockoff. But these Japanese drums, Tama drums,

273
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 2: were not knockoffs. They were not like Ludwig Drums or

274
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,280
Speaker 2: Rogers or Premiere or any of these American or English brands.

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Speaker 2: They were bigger, stronger, higher tech, better material bills, better sounding,

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Speaker 2: just superior in every imaginable way. And so I'm reviewing

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00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,640
Speaker 2: these drums for Sounds magazine and I thought, I want

278
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 2: to get me some of these. And I at that time,

279
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 2: I was playing in Curved Air, which is a prog

280
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 2: rock band that had been successful years before I joined.

281
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,479
Speaker 2: I was one of the last rats to jump aboard

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Speaker 2: the sinking ship, and I used this credibility to contact

283
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Speaker 2: the importer and say, hey, look, I'm with this big

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Speaker 2: band and I might be inclined to use your Tama

285
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 2: drums that you're importing there. And here's the review, and

286
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 2: here's all these reviews of the band of how big

287
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:42,120
Speaker 2: they were before I joined, and hornswoggled the drum set

288
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,439
Speaker 2: out of them, and I got this drum set and

289
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,159
Speaker 2: it showed up and at my first sound check with

290
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 2: Curved Air with these drums, I pulled them out in

291
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 2: the stage and the sound engineer comes running down saying,

292
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 2: oh man, you got to keep these junk get rid

293
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 2: of those love pigs. Oh man, this you can't imagine

294
00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,440
Speaker 2: how much better these sounds. Please please throw away those

295
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,200
Speaker 2: ludwigs and play these Japanese drums. And so I've now

296
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,480
Speaker 2: been playing them for I think it's almost fifty years.

297
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Speaker 1: And have you tried any other brands at this point?

298
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of, Well, I got buddies who play other drums.

299
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 2: But you know, last time, I think at the forty

300
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 2: year mark, they persuaded Tom have persuaded me to go

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00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 2: down there and give a speech at the Non Music

302
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 2: Equipment convention, And okay, so I went down There was

303
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 2: a very short speech actually, but I thought kind of

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00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 2: hit the point, ladies and gentlemen, forty years thank you.

305
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Speaker 2: Any questions?

306
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 1: How many drums do you own today?

307
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 2: Shall we spend a moment counting them? No?

308
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 1: Well this is audio only, Steward, So you got to describe.

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00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 2: Okay, just standing here from the microphone here visible right now,

310
00:18:54,280 --> 00:19:03,080
Speaker 2: I got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen.

311
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Speaker 2: I think that's a drum. You'd probably call that a drum.

312
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 2: Sixteen seventeen timpany. I got two timpany that we'll call

313
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Speaker 2: those drums, even though Timpany players would never call themselves percussionists.

314
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 2: They're timputtists. But I will count those two timpanies to jo. Okay,

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00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,719
Speaker 2: where was I twenty seventeen? Many? That's how many drums

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Speaker 2: I have. Many.

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00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 1: Let's go back to boarding school, everybody. I know what

318
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,480
Speaker 1: the English boarding school has a bad tale to tell?

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00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 1: Was it culture shock? What was it like leaving Lebanon

320
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 1: going to boarding school in England?

321
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Speaker 2: I enjoyed it. It was a great school actually, and

322
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Speaker 2: I know that's weird. You're not supposed to enjoy school,

323
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 2: but I did. And I was the American kid, But

324
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 2: that's okay, uh. I enjoyed it. It was way out

325
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 2: in Somerset, and I had a group of friends and

326
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 2: kind of enjoyed boarding school. It's co ed and it

327
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,879
Speaker 2: had an amazing sports program that had horses. I was

328
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 2: able to. I learned how to ride horses. Never saw

329
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,719
Speaker 2: that coming, and I became quite devoted to horses, and

330
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 2: I still am, although I don't I traded all my

331
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 2: horses and for children, but I played polo there, which

332
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 2: came in handy when I was a rock star in

333
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 2: the countryside.

334
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Speaker 1: Okay, And were you playing in bands in boarding school?

335
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 2: Kind of sort of like we'd get together and give

336
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 2: her think up a cool name for the band and

337
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,479
Speaker 2: learn how to play Proud Mary. And the school wasn't hiring,

338
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 2: so we didn't play any gigs and we'd have to

339
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 2: hornswoggle somewhere to congregate to play when we'd get complaints

340
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,239
Speaker 2: about the noise. I didn't last. I didn't start. I

341
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 2: played in bands in Bay Route when I was twelve.

342
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 2: But you know, in a way, when I came back

343
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 2: to this, you know, the first world, if you like,

344
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 2: I regressed my life. I went back to being a

345
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 2: twelve thirteen, fourteen fifteen, however old I was, whereas in

346
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 2: buried I was master of the universe. My brother, who

347
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,719
Speaker 2: was a couple of years older, was stealing motorcycles and

348
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 2: we were you know, it was great coming back to

349
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 2: the world where you're not allowed to cross the street

350
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 2: without a until a machine tells you it's okay, and

351
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 2: if you're busting for a leak, you can't just like

352
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 2: pull behind a bush and unzip all kinds of constraints

353
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 2: on free life, you know, sidewalks or an imposition. And

354
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 2: so I felt kind of constrained by the civilized, developed world,

355
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 2: but somehow managed to acclimate.

356
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: And you obviously speak English, and it's interesting without an accent,

357
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: never having grown up in the US. But do you

358
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 1: also speak.

359
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 2: When I first got to England, I didn't realize that

360
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 2: half the words in my vocabulary were not English, because

361
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 2: everybody in cities like that, well we spoke Araba, franglaise,

362
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: which is Arabic, French and English. And I didn't know

363
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 2: that half the words were Arabic. And I got teased

364
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 2: about that a little bit. And well, by being the

365
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: American kid, that made me strangely very patriotic. As a

366
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 2: matter of fact. God, now, yes I am American, kiss

367
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Speaker 2: my ass.

368
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 1: And you're in boarding school with the boys. What about

369
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: the girls?

370
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 2: Oh there were girls.

371
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Speaker 1: It was co ed.

372
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 2: Oh really, Oh yeah, yeah. It was a very advanced

373
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 2: modern boarding school. It was it was a kind of

374
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 2: a new concept at the time. It was like the

375
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 2: New Age. It was a new version of boarding school.

376
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't Eton and Harrow and Stowe and Rugby. It

377
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 2: was the new face of education and It had a

378
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: very It had a robin hood policy where Elizabeth Taylor's

379
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 2: kids were there, and the potentates of Africa, the Saudi

380
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: princes were there, and they paid the bills while interesting kids,

381
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: which was I guess me, had a reduced rate, so

382
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 2: they had, you know, it was a very interesting student body.

383
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: And they poached sports stars from other schools, so we

384
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 2: had the top under twenty one tennis players and so on.

385
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: It was pretty cool concept of a school, but it

386
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 2: was not like the old fashioned boarding schools. It was

387
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 2: very modern education system and co ed right there. But

388
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: you know, the rules were if you know, a private

389
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: assignation would be you could get expelled for a private assignation,

390
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: which is just if you're alone in a room with

391
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 2: a member of the opposite sex.

392
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: Well, that didn't need stop you did it. No, So

393
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: how did you end up going to college in the US?

394
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: Well, at first I went to American College in England

395
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 2: because of the Vietnam War, and I was Draft board

396
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 2: one hundred, which means that Colorado and Arizona they have

397
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: a quota of how many eighteen year olds they had

398
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: to send to the army for the Vietnam War. The

399
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 2: draft no escape, whether you were a senator's son or

400
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 2: whatever you're going. And they had a lottery system where

401
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: every date of the year, three hundred and sixty five days,

402
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 2: every birthday, they're all thrown into a bat hat and

403
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 2: they pull them out one by one. You get a number. Okay,

404
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 2: January seventeenth, that's one, September fourteen that's two, and whatever, whatever,

405
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 2: And every birth date gets a number. And usually the

406
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: you know, in every state, Colorado would be drafting up

407
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: to you know, one hundred and fifty or something like that.

408
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 2: If you were below one hundred, you're getting drafted. Get

409
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: over it. And so I but draft Board one hundred,

410
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 2: which was expatriates Americans living abroad who turned eighteen outside

411
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: of America, that draft board had a quota of zero.

412
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 2: So as long as I stayed outside of America, I

413
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: was absolutely legally safe from the draft. At the minute

414
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: I set foot in America, I'd have to reregister in

415
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 2: whatever state that might be, and I was not prepared

416
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: to do that until I got my extremely high draft number,

417
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: which meant I was safe. So I showed up here

418
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 2: in California, Point Loma, San Diego, which turned out to

419
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 2: have the best surf on the West Coast, and all

420
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: my buddies were surfers in California. Here I come.

421
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: So you went and graduated where Berkeley.

422
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: I didn't graduate, though I went. I did four years

423
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: of college. In fact, I did four years in three

424
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: and a half years. And I was all ready to

425
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 2: come back next September to do underwater basket weaving, and

426
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: I had like three more credits to do. But as

427
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: I did every summer, I went back to London and

428
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 2: roadied for bands, and this time I went and played

429
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 2: in a band and it turned into a thing. And

430
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 2: suddenly I'm in a professional band touring Europe. And I

431
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: want to go back to Berkeley maybe next year or never.

432
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: And I never did make it back there.

433
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: And would your parents say about that?

434
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 2: Well, I was launched into life happening, that's the main thing.

435
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: And I didn't really give it any thought until years

436
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 2: later when I wrote to UC Berkeley and said, any

437
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: chance I could do those last couple of courses, just

438
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 2: to cross the T dot THEI. And they said, well,

439
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 2: that major doesn't exist anymore, and there's several other courses,

440
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 2: and no, you can't do a correspondence course from LA

441
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: you'd have to come up here and well, okay, I'll

442
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 2: a word myself a degree in life with my seven

443
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 2: kids and whatever I've small achievements I've made in a

444
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: life later for that, but I would like to go

445
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: back there and teach one day.

446
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: Did your seven kids go to college?

447
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I'm graduated from UC Berkeley.

448
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: Okay, So when you're there for three and a half years,

449
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: how involved are you in music? And are you playing

450
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: the drums? What's going on?

451
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: Well? The United States International University, which had a campus

452
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: in England, one in Nairobi, another one in Mexico City,

453
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 2: Steamboat Springs, and put Loma, California with the best surf

454
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: on the West Coast. I was there for two years

455
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: and then and majoring in music. But then when I

456
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 2: went to Berkeley, you know, applied to Berkeley. In those days,

457
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: they had over capacity. It's hard for people to imagine now,

458
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: but I just notified them of the blessing of my

459
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 2: decision to attend their university, to which they had more

460
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 2: capacity than they had students. In that era, I was

461
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 2: at the end of the Baby boom, and all the

462
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 2: all the institutions were built for the Baby boom and

463
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: they were running out of babies by the time I

464
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: came along, so it was easy to get into college.

465
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 2: But so I go to the music school there and

466
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: they gave me a test and I failed that test

467
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: miserably because I'm not a penist. I was playing drums,

468
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 2: and I knew three chords on the guitar and was

469
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 2: dedicated to music and so on. But they declined me

470
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: at the music school, so I went and studied public

471
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 2: policy and communications, communications and public policy instead, And looking back,

472
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 2: I think if they had accepted me, I would probably

473
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: be the timpanist with the Ohio Symphony now. But since

474
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,239
Speaker 2: they didn't, and the stuff that I needed to know

475
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: about being a musician I already knew from my first

476
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: All I needed was, you know, music theory, one oh one.

477
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: That's all you really need. The rest is God given.

478
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: It's talent, it's gift, it's imagination. And so what I

479
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: did learn was how media works, how promotion works, how

480
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: to communicate, you know, how to manipulate the zeitgeist, and

481
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: so that came in very handy. I could use all that.

482
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: That's what my career. Everyone else in that major, by

483
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: the way, was going to be a politician. Or in advertising.

484
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: So did you play in bands in Berkeley?

485
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: Yes, I did, you know, just jatting with people, not

486
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: playing show we you know, played the occasional kegger with buddies.

487
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: And in fact, one of my buddies in Berkeley. Uh,

488
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: did a recording. Got a lacker printed up two hundred

489
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: copies of an actual record designed the art himself, called

490
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: the Grand Zilch of Ozone, and released this record. Most

491
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: of them ended up moldering in his you know, garage. Uh.

492
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: But years later they were discovered and people have been

493
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: making it. This is like a lost relic, you know,

494
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,959
Speaker 2: the Grand Zilch of Ozone, which is barely recognizable as music.

495
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: But yep, that's me on there banging stuff.

496
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: Let's go back to your seven kids. You're a household

497
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: name in the music world. You certainly made money during

498
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: your life. How do you deal with kids and make

499
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: sure they have their own life? Or do you support them?

500
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: How do you wrestle with all that?

501
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: Well, each one of them needs different wrestling and different

502
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: encouragement and different you know, different. They're all different. They

503
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: just come out of the box completely different. Even if

504
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: they grow up in the same environment, they're different. And

505
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: what works for the goose, does not work for the gander.

506
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: And so I don't have a single formula for how

507
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: to raise successful children. My father did, or rather, he

508
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: had all kinds of books on the subject, and he

509
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: was determined and it was kind of the beginnings of

510
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: pop psychology. And he had all these books lying around

511
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: the house, you know, how to raise a genius, and

512
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: ten Steps to Personal Power and all this cool stuff,

513
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: and I kind of absorb those. I don't know how

514
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: much use they were. But the kids just have found

515
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 2: their own destiny, and you do your best to encourage

516
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: what they're good at. And you know, like my father

517
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: did when he spotted that I could actually was interested in,

518
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: he just put every resource in my path to make

519
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: it happen. And of my seven, only one of them

520
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: was born with the actual handful of gifts that it

521
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: takes to be a musician. And of course he does

522
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: something else for a living. He runs a post production

523
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: facility that he invented.

524
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: So if they're in their twenties and thirties and they

525
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: call you for money, what do you say.

526
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: They haven't really, no, they're all gainfully employed. My youngest,

527
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: he just graduated a few years ago. From Northwestern and

528
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: she was offered, you know, a six figure salary straight

529
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: out of college as a wolf on Wall Street, kicking

530
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: aid and taking names, you know, all six foot tall

531
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: of her. And she doesn't need money. She's my retirement policy.

532
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: Huh okay. So you're talking about your father and your brothers,

533
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: you're all very entrepreneurial. Where did that come from?

534
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: Well, my father was not entrepreneurial at all. He was

535
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: good at skuld duggery and the social society, but no

536
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: kind of businessman really. Later on when he left government employee,

537
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: this is what all the agents would do. By the way,

538
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: they would work for Uncle Sam, get their credibility going.

539
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: Then they would take a job. They would quit and

540
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: take the same job. But now you're working for Aramco,

541
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: the oil companies, doing the same job, the same manipulation,

542
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: the same negotiating and navigating through the political wins of

543
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: the Middle East, you know, the same basically the same

544
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: job only but for oil companies. For Uncle Sam, they

545
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: make a load of money. Then they go back to

546
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: work for Uncle Sam again where they make less money,

547
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: but would get in with who decision makers are within

548
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: the American as system. And he did that. He was

549
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 2: mostly private. By the time I was in my teens

550
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: and saw what he was doing. He ended up in

551
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 2: England as a talking head. Whenever there'd be a flare

552
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: up in the Middle East, they'd call Old Miles Copeland

553
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: and say, well, what do you think? Well, and he

554
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: didn't care about what was happening. He just wanted to

555
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: throw bombs and he would he would have some formulation

556
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: that would just get the most tongues wagging and the

557
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: most glorious outrage inspired. You know.

558
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so was your father inherently your reverend?

559
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: Yes, one time there was a huha in England about

560
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: the American embassy. Was somebody American was caught spying on England,

561
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: on our other friends. Okay, can you believe it? America

562
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: is spying on its own friends? And so they get

563
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: Old Miles Copeland on the screen to ask him, is

564
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: this true? Could this be true that the American is

565
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: spying on England? He says, of course it's true. What

566
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: do you think You're some third world country that nobody cares.

567
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: You're one of our most important allies. Of course we're

568
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: spying on you. By the way, you're not spying on us.

569
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: Call your MP he loved that stuff.

570
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: But go back to you. Why why are the three

571
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: of you so entrepreneurial. There must be something in the

572
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 1: water or something, the upbringing.

573
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: Hunger, greed, materialism, you know, usual stuff. I'm not. I'm

574
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: not I'm not not an entrepreneur at all. I just

575
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 2: bang stuff. I like to make music.

576
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but for me, so you're the drummer. The drummer

577
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: is always the business guy. Yeah, you learned the band.

578
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's because you can't send the singer in to

579
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 2: collect from the club owner. You know, you want the

580
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: band to get paid, you send in the drummer with

581
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: his knuckles dragging. Give us money now.

582
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 1: Okay, So during the summer when you're in college, you're

583
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 1: going to the UK and you're roadying. Tell us about that.

584
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: Well, I would roady for bands that Miles managed or

585
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 2: Ian was the agent of, and like Wishbone Ash. You know,

586
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: you show me a back line drum set and three

587
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: amps and I can you know an afford transit van.

588
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 2: I'll get that sucker loaded right up in a heartbeat.

589
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: You know I've got all the skill. Basically, I'm a

590
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 2: glorified roady, very proud of my roadying skills. Even today

591
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: in my studio, I do all my own wiring and

592
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: everything because I'm a gearhead like that. And then I

593
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: started tour managing, and I tour managed Joe Armor Trading

594
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,479
Speaker 2: across America for three months.

595
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: You know, not everybody is as sophisticated as we are.

596
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: Tell us what a tour manager does.

597
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: The tour manager gets the artist out of the hotel

598
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 2: into the bus, out of the bus, onto the stage,

599
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: off the stage, back into the bus, out of the bus,

600
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 2: back into the hotel, in whatever condition. And that's the job.

601
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 2: The roadie has the same job, but not for the artist,

602
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: for the gear gets the gear out of the truck,

603
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: onto the stage, sets it up, off the stage, back

604
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: into the truck. Much simpler job.

605
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: But as little sleep as the musicians get. Traditionally, the

606
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: tour manager gets even less.

607
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a trap many tour managers. You know,

608
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: high attrition rate on tour managers because they're right next

609
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 2: to the artists, and the artists can go to bed trashed,

610
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: wake up at three o'clock in the afternoon in time

611
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 2: to stagger on stage and be brilliant for an hour

612
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: and a half and then stagger back off stage, the

613
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 2: tour manager is living along that, and many think that

614
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: they too can live like that and be drinking and

615
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: carousing till late. And you know, no, they've got to

616
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 2: be They've got to be up talk, you know, talking

617
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: to New York at nine o'clock in the morning, and

618
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 2: they got to be booking those flights, and they got

619
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: to be making you know, they got plates in the

620
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: air to deal with. And many a tour manager forgets

621
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: that they are not a talent can go and live

622
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: their dissolute lifestyle. Term managers got to get up in

623
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: the morning.

624
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: Okay, So you spend three and a half years in Berkeley,

625
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: you come to the UK and then you get in

626
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: a band. How does that happen?

627
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: The band in question was a violin player named Daryl

628
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 2: Way who was starting a new band. And I came

629
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 2: over and we jammed and hey, let's do a band.

630
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 2: And we got a band together. We played a couple

631
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: of shows. We were called Stark Naked and the car Thieves,

632
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 2: which was my brother Ian's Vietnam band. Cool name, and

633
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 2: so we were just about to hit the big time,

634
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 2: or we thought we were. When curved Air, his previous band,

635
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: had a tax bill and so they figured, okay, well

636
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: they would the band would reunite for one tour to

637
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 2: pay off their tax bill and that would be that.

638
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: And okay, well that's me back on the street. Okay,

639
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 2: well wait a minute. I pull out my briefcase and

640
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 2: appointed myself tour manager of Curved Air, which I was,

641
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 2: and I was tour manager for a little while. But

642
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: the tour was a big success. The audiences raved, the

643
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: you know, the reviews were great. It was all wonderfulness.

644
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 2: But two of the guys, including the drummer, decided to

645
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: go back to their lives and didn't want to carry on,

646
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: which left the band in need of a drummer. I

647
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: know a guy, and so did their leader, the violin player,

648
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 2: and so I became. I went from being the tour

649
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 2: manager of Curved Air to being the drummer in Curved

650
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: Air and as I did many times in my life,

651
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: going from behind the camera to in front of the

652
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: camera and then back behind the camera and back and forth.

653
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: Okay, when was the dream, if ever to be a

654
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: successful musician?

655
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: Remember that story of meeting twelve Yeah, and it was

656
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: Jane McRoberts, all fifteen years old of her and at

657
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 2: the British Embassy Beach Club, and I'm playing we got

658
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 2: to get out out of this place or whatever, and

659
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: she and I'm twelve and she's fifteen, and she's dancing

660
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: to my beat. And I'm thinking, oh, Lord, thank you

661
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: for this gift that I can induce this fifteen year

662
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 2: old goddess to be grooving to my beat.

663
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: Where is she today?

664
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 2: She's in Arizona. Actually, you know, we kept in touch

665
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: like every ten years or something. She's got four kids

666
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 2: and you know whatever. Whatever, he's probably a grandmother by now.

667
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: Okay, so you get bidden by the bug. But there's

668
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: a lot of diversion. You go to boarding school, you

669
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: don't play out in band. You go to Berkeley, you

670
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 1: don't play out in bands. You're roady.

671
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, there's one one other,

672
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: one other epiphany there that I sense where you're going

673
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 2: with this here. Yes, and I may be wrong, but

674
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 2: there was another epiphany. The music part, not just the

675
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: banging stuff part, not just the eight hundred pounds silver

676
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: back part, not just the power rush, not just the

677
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 2: sex of inspiring a young girl to move in a

678
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: sexually suggestive mat which music does, by the way, only

679
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: music is the only art form which usurps motor control

680
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: of your body and makes it perfectly okay for you

681
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: to thrust your pudenda in public. Anyhow, it turned out

682
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 2: that there was more to music than that which you

683
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 2: would think would be enough. But in boarding school, the Sunday,

684
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: the Christmas service every year was in Wells Cathedral, this

685
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: gigantic Gothic cathedral. Actually it's two cathedrals stuck together, huge,

686
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 2: beautiful with a stained glass winter and everything. And the

687
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: Christmas service is a thousand students, parents, teachers, voices raised

688
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 2: and Christmas carols and the you know in the and

689
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 2: acchoir and the huge organ church organ. I mean that

690
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 2: is a musical thing. And I'm in the orchestra school orchestra.

691
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: But I only had one song to play, which was

692
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: Drummer Boy or something Dun dut dun dune, Dun dun

693
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: dun dune Da da da dun dune you know that one? Uh?

694
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: That was my only little drummer voice.

695
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, uh. And so I was a nervous, twitchy

696
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 2: kid and mister Fox, you know, annoyed with me, just

697
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: rattling and you know, waiting for my moment could then

698
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: go there and he kicked me out of the You know,

699
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: the church is the long part is full of the

700
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 2: thousand voices raised in song. One of the wings of

701
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 2: the cross is the band, the orchestra. That's me uh.

702
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 2: And the other huge part of the church was another cathedral,

703
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: stuck two together, and so I was banished alone to

704
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: that other part, flood lit from the outside with the

705
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 2: stained glass windows in a thousand voices raised in song,

706
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 2: the beautiful Christmas carols. That just oh, just the heart

707
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: soaring with the you know, I'm right now, I'm sixteen,

708
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 2: and I can't even absorb this amount of aesthetic excellence,

709
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: this beauty, this emotion, this power. Oh I'm not religious remotely,

710
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 2: but man, just lit up by that music and the

711
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: visuals and everything alone in that thing that was. That

712
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: was a moment. Then came the time, Okay, I'm called

713
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: back to the stage and okay, we're playing that song now,

714
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 2: Copeland to your station, and I'm there and I'm just

715
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 2: in the still, you know, after the last hymn, the

716
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: echo echoing through the cathedral and you can hear people

717
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 2: straining in their seats waiting for the next wave of

718
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: the Shaman's wand and that shaman is me and I

719
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: raising my stick and mister Fox is looking at me,

720
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: and it comes down dun dundune, and the thing builds

721
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: and I'm the helmsman of this gigantic ship of music. Ah.

722
00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: I still get the chills today thinking about how fried

723
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: my little brain was by that moment and that stuck

724
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: and through all the rock and roll, all the good times,

725
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 2: all the hanging around, that depth of the power of

726
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: music is something I still take very seriously.

727
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in curved air the drummer, how does

728
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:26,919
Speaker 1: that play out?

729
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: Well, it was a time of change. We were the

730
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: end of the hippie boom. I was two years too

731
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 2: young to be a real hippie. It was rancid by then.

732
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 2: You know, the waves had washed and we were swirling

733
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: in the subs on the back side and it was

734
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: kind of over. But I was playing in this prog

735
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: rock group and it was doing okay, but it was

736
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: kind of you know, the music industry was a locked door.

737
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: And then suddenly one of the sex pistols on national

738
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: TV said fuck, and the tabloid newspapers erupted in glorious

739
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 2: fury of absolute exaltation, of rage, and thus was born

740
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: the sex Pistols and the punk revolution. New you know,

741
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: short hair not long hair, sniffing, glue not smoking pot,

742
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 2: hate and war rather than love and peace. It was

743
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 2: a whole new hairdoo, same music, by the way, same

744
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 2: EA and D chords on guitar, bass and drums, not

745
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 2: a little faster okay, and the lyrics are mostly shouted

746
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: rather than sunk, and there shall be no guitar solos.

747
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: But it was a new order, a new world. And

748
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 2: these clubs started opening up in London, new bands. All

749
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: the old media radio one who could care what's getting airplay,

750
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 2: It's what's happening in the clubs. And that's where the

751
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 2: Police was born. In that world. I decided I wanted

752
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 2: a band in that world, and so I needed to

753
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: find me a guitarist and a bass player, one of

754
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 2: whom needs to sing.

755
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: Okay, before you get the people say don't quit your

756
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 1: job until you have another one. You're in curve there

757
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: and you say, fuck, this is going to end. I

758
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: got to get a new thing, or does it end?

759
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: And then you say, well I got to get a

760
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: new thing.

761
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 2: Well they both happened, they overlapped. I don't my diaries

762
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: don't tell what happened. There's the last Curved Air date,

763
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 2: which is whatever it was, and then no further mention

764
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: of Curved Air. I was already dabbling with this new

765
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: band of mine, and I don't even recall, I don't

766
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 2: make any mention in my diary of the Curved Air's demise.

767
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: I think it was an We didn't break up, it

768
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: was just there weren't any more dates. And you know,

769
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 2: without us even knowing it, we all kind of had

770
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 2: jumped ship where the ship had vanished under our feet. Anyhow,

771
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: I was on a new mission with my new band,

772
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 2: the Police.

773
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: Okay, but you need money. What are you living on?

774
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 2: I had money saved up from Curved Air, which I

775
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: was able to stretch a long way. Uh. And also

776
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: I did sessions. I did a journalism on the side,

777
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: reviewing equipment and just made ends meet. And then when

778
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: then when I met Sting, when he moved down to London,

779
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: and he was a complete stranger. Long story, you'll have

780
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: to read the book. He calls me up from a

781
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: phone booth, doown So.

782
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, let's go way way way way back

783
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: before Curve Deer ends. Are you the guy who's in

784
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: the clubs every night? Are you making this like a

785
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: science project? Let me find out everything about this scene.

786
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely, But Curved There is still going and

787
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 2: I'm already scheming that I want to do it yourself

788
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 2: banned this thing because Curvedir everything we did put us

789
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 2: deeper in debt to the man. We do a photo

790
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 2: session where you know, comes off the top, We do

791
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 2: a gig, costs money. We got three roadies, light show pa,

792
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 2: all this stuff going on, and we never saw the

793
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: money them. All money all went to the bosses and

794
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: we got a salary, and I was done with that.

795
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 2: I wanted our own band, you know, where I'm in

796
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: charge of the money and what gets spent. Of course

797
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: there wasn't any money to spend, but I was going

798
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: to do the spending my goddamn self. And so I

799
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 2: was already hatching this scheme. And one night Curved Air

800
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: was had a night off in Newcastle and the local

801
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 2: journalist Phil Suckcliffe took us to see the local hot

802
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 2: cool jazz band which is called Last Exit, and they

803
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 2: had rather a useful looking bass player whom I need

804
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 2: a base either. The guitarist basically needs to sing and

805
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: there's a guy playing pretty big, good bass and he's

806
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 2: singing too. Check and let's check. Yep, he's got an amp.

807
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 2: Very important, but better than any of that was the

808
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: obvious charisma of the guy, just this charisma flashing out

809
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 2: of every pore. And I looked at that guy and

810
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: I said, now there is a meal ticket. And so

811
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: a few weeks later I called that that journalist and said, hey,

812
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: you know, philk, can you give me that guy and

813
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 2: the last Mexican, the bass player, can you give me

814
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,879
Speaker 2: a number? And I start telling you about this cool

815
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 2: new thing happening in London, this punk thing, and you know,

816
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: it's all great, would say. But as soon as the

817
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: word punk came out of my mouth, this is from me,

818
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: I was sort of and I could sense the temperature

819
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 2: had dropped thirty degrees. And he said, no, I'm not

820
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: giving you his number. You're gonna lure the you know,

821
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: the star of our finest art band down to the

822
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 2: pit of Satan in London for a punk Are you kidding?

823
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 2: You know, because for anybody who had a job, any

824
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: adult in the music industry or entertainment, for them, punk

825
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: was the Antichrist. It was the barbarians at the gate.

826
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: It was the destruction of everything that is beautiful and

827
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 2: sacred and pure, and you know the very mentioned would

828
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: cause fistfights, you know. And so he wouldn't give me

829
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 2: the number. I hung up, and I'm kind of well,

830
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 2: what's the matter with that guy? And then walking around

831
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: in sirt will find me. I thought of a much

832
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 2: more persuasive h tank on it, you know, much better

833
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: persuasion for Phil, you know, and I call him back up.

834
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 2: You know, basically I was going to say, give me

835
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: a fucking number. Okay, uh, you know, I would have

836
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: thought that would be much more persuasive. But he didn't

837
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: pick up. His girlfriend did, and oh, hello, hi Stewart,

838
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 2: I'm in curved Aaron, I was, you know, I was

839
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 2: talking to Phil, and I says, is there anything I

840
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: can help you with the house? You know that bass

841
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: player in the last X Oh sting, Yeah, I'm looking

842
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: for his number? Hang on a tick and she goes

843
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 2: and gets Phil's phone booking seven four three, nine, one

844
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: eight five two.

845
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: Any wait, just be did you make that up? Was

846
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: that the real number?

847
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 2: Oh? You can call that today? He still picks up. Okay,

848
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: just kidding, Okay, the it's in the diary. It's in

849
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 2: the book. You can see it. Actually he had two

850
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: or three different numbers at the time. That was a

851
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 2: number of Newcastle, and he had a couple of different

852
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: numbers in London. And I'm several from you know anyway.

853
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so you got the number, then you call them.

854
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: One minute later I hear that voice that we are

855
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:27,439
Speaker 2: now also familiar with. Keep talking, and uh those two

856
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 2: words were very important. Keep talking. And because I started

857
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 2: out with I'm interested in you, not your band, I'm

858
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 2: down here in London getting something together. And are you

859
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:48,720
Speaker 2: a free agent? Keep talking? Okay? Okay? So I kept talking,

860
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: and I bent his ears with my grandiose schemes and

861
00:50:53,560 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 2: convincing certitude, and basically spent the next two years talking happening.

862
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 2: We got a photo session, we got a review coming up,

863
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: we got gigs, we got you know, basic guy to

864
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 2: keep talking because when you know, when he got down

865
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 2: to London, everybody was after him. And and I look

866
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 2: back and I wonder how did I hold on? How

867
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 2: did the police survive with everything going on around? You know? Anyway,

868
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 2: I tell you how we survived and why, because a

869
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: few weeks later, my phone rings. It's me. I'm downstairs

870
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 2: in a phone booth. I can't even begin to For

871
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: some reason, singers all have husky voices. I guess because

872
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 2: sell all that singing they do. The speaking voice is

873
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 2: very kind of husky. And come on up. And he

874
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: comes up, and I put a bass in his hand,

875
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 2: and I get behind the drums and we start playing.

876
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 2: And oh my god, we surge high. We rock it

877
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 2: forth into the outer galaxies. We dig deep into the

878
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 2: bowels of the earth. We thrust forward like an invading army.

879
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 2: We were tracked and retreat into subtle, subtle poignance, and

880
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: just like everywhere we go, it rocks and it's cool,

881
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: and we are locked at that, you know, locked at

882
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 2: the groove. And it's what's called it's this, it's the

883
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,720
Speaker 2: holy grail of all ensemble playing, which is called the pocket.

884
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 2: We had a pocket. We just had. He's a complete stranger,

885
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,280
Speaker 2: this guy, he's a complete stranger standing in my house

886
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 2: and we're playing this cool stuff, which means this is

887
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: the You know, we knew that we were in the

888
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 2: right company, and we didn't have any songs. And for

889
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 2: the next two years we stuck it out. We didn't

890
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 2: have rocks in We didn't have message in a bottle.

891
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 2: We didn't have every breath you take. We hadn't didn't.

892
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 2: He didn't even know he could write songs. He was

893
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: a jazz player, used to playing bass while somebody else

894
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: takes the solo. He wasn't a songwriter yet. And besides,

895
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 2: I had told him that I had song Yeah, I

896
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 2: got we we got a band, and we got I

897
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: got the songs, and we got gates coming up. It's

898
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 2: all going on, and so, uh yeah, I had these

899
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 2: you could call them so more like basslines. Was shouting,

900
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 2: you know. The lyrics were like I hate the world,

901
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 2: the world hates me, and you know, basically you know,

902
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 2: standard issue punk rama because that's the only work it

903
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,439
Speaker 2: was available, and uh, that's where we had to play,

904
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 2: and we had to wear the uniform and uh and

905
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 2: we'd had that incredible jam. And that night I took

906
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: him down to the Roxy Club, which is the opening

907
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: of the first proper punk club in London, and we

908
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 2: saw Generation X, which was Billie Idol in his band,

909
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 2: and and we're there looking to our left and to

910
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 2: our right, you know, thinking okay, these are the minnows

911
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 2: us sharks will devour. We're gonna eat everybody's lunch, and

912
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 2: we're still high off what we because we knew, just

913
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 2: the two of us playing together, we've got something rare here.

914
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 2: This is really cool. Uh. We knew that. Well, we

915
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 2: were arrogant, okay. Uh, And so we started. You know,

916
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,439
Speaker 2: I introduced him to Henry, my guitarist, who could play

917
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 2: three chords that I taught him. But he had the

918
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:16,439
Speaker 2: right black shades and the correctly upturned leather jacket collar. Uh.

919
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 2: And was a genuine punk, which neither Sting nor I

920
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: were genuine punks. But Henry was the real deal. And

921
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: so we uh, we were the police.

922
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 1: And uh a little bit slower. First when he came

923
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 1: to you, he was already Sting. He already had that name.

924
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. The only person who calls him Gordon is Trudy.

925
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 2: And what she's calling him Gordon, I take cover.

926
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: Okay. In the book, you constantly referred to him as Stingo.

927
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: Any particular reason you call him Stingo, Well, just.

928
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 2: To make it mine. You know, he's my buddy. Well,

929
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: you know he calls me Stewie. You know, if I

930
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 2: can suffer that indignity, then he'll put up with whatever

931
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,280
Speaker 2: I call him, that's a term of endearment.

932
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: How long after you get your buddy the guitarist in

933
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: do you play out.

934
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 2: Shows? Yeah? Well not long because arriving from America at

935
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 2: that time were a handful of American acts out of Queens,

936
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: New York, The Heartbreakers, Donny Thunder and the Heartbreakers, Blondie,

937
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 2: Wayne County and the Electric Chairs and won Cherry Vanilla,

938
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 2: and she brought her guitarist and her keyboard player and

939
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: was looking for a rhythm section. She figured she'd hire

940
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 2: a couple of guys in London, say were hotels and salaries,

941
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 2: and so I ran across them and offered our services

942
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 2: as the rhythm section and the opening act. And I

943
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 2: provided backline because I had the gear, and so she

944
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 2: got so sting and I were the bass player and

945
00:55:55,360 --> 00:56:00,040
Speaker 2: drummer in her band with her guitarist Louis Lapoort and

946
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 2: keyboard players. Zecha and the Police was the opening act

947
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: with Henry. We play our our eight songs in about

948
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 2: four minutes. We were fast and then come back on

949
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 2: the stage just Cherry Vanilla's been and they were really

950
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 2: good musicians. Actually, it was a good band. And once

951
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 2: again I'm surprised that. You know, Cherry's manager was trying

952
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 2: to steal sting as everyone else was, and I was

953
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: surprised that he stuck with me and Henry. And later

954
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 2: on one day we were doing sessions. We were the

955
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 2: happening rhythm section. That's how he paid the rent. And

956
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 2: in walks Andy Summers on this session, and he's really

957
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 2: way above us. He was you know, triple scale. You

958
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 2: know you'd pay somebody else, you pay Andy times three

959
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: and legendary player. And for some reason he latched onto us,

960
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 2: this fail fake punk band, we're going nowhere. Uh remember

961
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 2: we didn't have those songs yet, and we just had

962
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 2: my bass lines with shouting. But we were a heck

963
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 2: of a rhythm section and Andy just decided that we

964
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 2: need him in his and he accepted our non invitation

965
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 2: and was suddenly a member of the group. Uh. At

966
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 2: first we couldn't believe it. You know that session driving home,

967
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 2: this thing is seething with musicality. He had it all

968
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 2: bottled up. We've been playing our crap punk songs and

969
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 2: so on, and just but a day of actual music

970
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 2: with real musicians reminded him of his reason for living.

971
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 2: And he's driving home sething and saying we got to

972
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 2: get that guy. And I'm humoring him. We're not going

973
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 2: to get that guy. Sure, i'd be great, I'd be great.

974
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 2: We're not going to get that guy. And and he's

975
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 2: going on, he's on a rant. He got Henry's a

976
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 2: crap guitarist. You're a better guitarist than Henry And you're

977
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 2: a crap and and and I'm you know, he carries

978
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 2: on with his tire. But I'm taking aback at this

979
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 2: unexpected accolade. Really I'm better than Henry. Okay, I'm crap,

980
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: but I'm better than Henry. Uh. And So we ended

981
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 2: up doing a show with the guy who employed this

982
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 2: guy named Mike Howett and other things. So we kept

983
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: running and then there was mixing that album, and we

984
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 2: kept running into Andy and Stein and I are plotting, Hell,

985
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 2: can we get that guy? What can we offer him?

986
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 2: You know? And one day I run into him on

987
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 2: Oxford Circus tube station in London. Then he pulls me

988
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 2: into a cab and say, hey, look you and that

989
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: that bass player. I think you got something, but you

990
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 2: need me in the band. And I accept. And that's

991
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 2: very Andy, by the way, direct to the point. And uh,

992
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it, and I called Sting, I'm doing

993
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 2: done deal. That's it, that's it. We can hold on,

994
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 2: hold on, And I explained to Andy, Uh, just so

995
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 2: you know the record company, that's me on the phone

996
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: selling boxes of records to record stores in Birmingham and Manchester.

997
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 2: I am the record company. You're looking at it management

998
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: once again, you're looking at this is it. I got

999
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 2: to see this briefcase. That's my briefcase. That's the manager roadies. Yes,

1000
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 2: we do have a road crew. That would be you

1001
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 2: on one and I will take the other end of

1002
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 2: your amp. But that's you are the road crew. And

1003
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 2: basically I'm throwing all this stuff at him to kick

1004
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 2: the wheels, you know, to shake it loose, because I

1005
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 2: was sure he'd quit after a week and we'd be screwed.

1006
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 2: But he stuck to his guns and he canned all

1007
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 2: of his sessions except for one which was critical this

1008
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,959
Speaker 2: German composer. He kept that gig and brought me along

1009
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: and then Sting too, and that's another story that's in

1010
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: the book, and was determined to join the band. Okay,

1011
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 2: now we have an actual musician on guitar.

1012
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: He gives you an ultimatum, I'll come in the band,

1013
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: but it has to be a tree. You got to

1014
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 1: get rid of the other guitarists.

1015
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 2: That's right. And we said, well, well, so now Sting

1016
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 2: and I are scheming and plotting and not how do

1017
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 2: we get Andy in the band, it's how do we

1018
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 2: get Henry out of the band? And because he was

1019
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 2: our best friend, he was just the best guy. Uh.

1020
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 2: And he was very cool. He was great on stage.

1021
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 2: I mean he could only play three courts man, he

1022
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,439
Speaker 2: played them with great panache. And he was the real thing.

1023
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 2: The only reason people paid any attention to the police

1024
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 2: was because Henry was credible. The others, you know, the

1025
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 2: other two guys were obviously obviously real musicians. You know,

1026
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: fuck that. But Henry was the real thing. And it

1027
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: just had a vibe about him. And oh my god,

1028
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 2: it just you know, he was the life of the party.

1029
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 2: And you know, both of us we loved Henry. It

1030
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 2: was really hard, but we had to you know, music

1031
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 2: supersedes humanity.

1032
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: How did you tell him? What did he say?

1033
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 2: Well, he could. We went into the studio and I thought, well,

1034
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 2: let's give him one last recording here. Uh. And actually

1035
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 2: John Cale theoretically was producing the session, although he didn't

1036
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 2: really do much in the way of producing, uh, and

1037
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 2: he could send something was wrong. So he calls Sting

1038
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 2: up later and say, what's the matter with Stuart's weird?

1039
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 2: What's going on here? And and and Sting says, oh,

1040
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry Henry, thinking we decided I was going

1041
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 2: to tell Henry, but I was such a such a

1042
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 2: you know, such a pussy that I hadn't uh And

1043
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,919
Speaker 2: it was disgraceful. Uh. And he calls up and says,

1044
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 2: what's in So Sting's commiserating, and Henry got wait what

1045
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 2: what what? Uh? So he's on the phone to me

1046
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 2: and uh, what's what? The Sting says things, you know,

1047
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 2: and I had to, you know, finish the job. And

1048
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: it was terrible. The next day he was scooped up

1049
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 2: by Wayne County in the Electric Chairs, who are a

1050
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 2: bigger act than us, And within two weeks we are

1051
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 2: opening for him in the electric Chairs. Now, Henry was

1052
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 2: a great guy, and the Electric Chairs were one of

1053
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 2: the best hangs in show business. They were just all

1054
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 2: those bands, they were great fun. Uh. And there we

1055
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 2: were opening for Henry. Uh. So he was a happy

1056
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 2: guy and he did have a big career in France

1057
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 2: because he's Corsican French and h he was one of

1058
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 2: the judges on the Big Talent television talent show. He's

1059
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 2: a he's a big star in France now and he

1060
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 2: did get pretty good on the guitar while he was

1061
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 2: at it. As the year we did, we did, and

1062
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 2: Andy did us a favor because as soon as we

1063
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 2: had Andy in the band with his harmonic sophistication, now

1064
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 2: Sting's ears prick up. And he's had a couple of

1065
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 2: years of being the discipline of the punk format, which

1066
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 2: is verse chorus, verse chorus, guitarist, you know, not guitars.

1067
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 2: No guitar solo is allowed, bridge verse chorus out of course, course,

1068
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 2: chorus courus out, you know, just a simple that's the format.

1069
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 2: That's the formula of a pop song. Ram down his throat.

1070
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 2: And so now he had an actual musician, but he

1071
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: had he was writing songs for the Police book, but

1072
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 2: with only two chords. You know, they weren't the big

1073
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 2: songs that we're familiar with now, I think Visions of

1074
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 2: the Night anyway. But now with Andy, his mind just

1075
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 2: started exploding with music. And that's when he came out

1076
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 2: with those songs that you have heard of, and one

1077
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 2: by one they replaced our dumb, fake punk songs. And well,

1078
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:31,959
Speaker 2: you know, every time he said I got another song,

1079
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 2: we would leap on it like piranhas. And suddenly with

1080
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 2: every song he brought in, it was like an upgrade,

1081
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 2: and we started we started turning into an actually pretty

1082
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 2: good group with kind of a unique sound, just in

1083
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 2: the nick of time. Because Andy was we were already unhip,

1084
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 2: but with Henry and the band we had some friends.

1085
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 2: But without Henry, and everybody knew that Andy had been

1086
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 2: around the block a couple of times too many times.

1087
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 2: He was ten years older than Stuf and Sting and

1088
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 2: I were bat it up. But Andy and his first

1089
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 2: show with the band, actually well Henry was still in

1090
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 2: the band. We played two shows with two guitarists, and

1091
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 2: he comes on stage and he's now made the big

1092
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 2: step of cutting his hair, which it's hard to emphasize

1093
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 2: enough what a big deal that was. That means he

1094
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 2: exchanges one whole friend group for another group. I mean,

1095
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 2: it's like coming out as punk and all those people

1096
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 2: would close their doorst rim and all these new people are,

1097
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 2: you know, not that hospitable punks. That was his new family.

1098
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 2: So he cut his hair and he made that huge

1099
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: leap across the rubicon. But he had not yet traded

1100
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 2: in his sartorial equipment. He was still in bell bottoms.

1101
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 2: Short hair and bell bottoms busted. And that's when the

1102
01:04:56,240 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 2: last shred of credibility of the Police as punk band

1103
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 2: fell away, and we knew we better come up with

1104
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 2: some good music or we are screwed. And we did.

1105
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 1: Okay, when did you come up with the name Police

1106
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: and when did you start to use it?

1107
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 2: I had the name Police before I had the band,

1108
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 2: and I had a manifesto, which I still have, by

1109
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 2: the way. That's uh. When I when I'm in moved,

1110
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 2: when I need some light comedy, I'll pull out my

1111
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 2: vitriolic document statement of Purpose. It's quite funny, really, written

1112
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:44,919
Speaker 2: by a wild eyed twenty six year old. And yeah,

1113
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 2: it was all planned, it was. It was all on paper.

1114
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 2: In my book. I've got page of all the other

1115
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 2: band names that I was considering. You know, Artillery Teeth,

1116
01:05:55,840 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 2: London Teeth. There's a lot of a lot of orthodontic

1117
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 2: imagery in the names of this group. You know, Teeth

1118
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 2: of London, you know biting, you know, the bite. You know,

1119
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 2: actually we should have been called the bite.

1120
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: Okay, you've been living in London. But the police weren't

1121
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 1: cool in America. They were referred to as the pigs.

1122
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 1: Did you worry about.

1123
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 2: The point, that's the point. The punks were the anti hippies.

1124
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 2: They wore suits. Okay, they were fucked up, slashed with

1125
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 2: razor blade suits, but they were suits with tie, skinny tie.

1126
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 2: They had short hair, not long hair. They did not

1127
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 2: smoke pot, They sniffed glue. They did not talk about

1128
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 2: peace of love. It was war, anger and anger and anger. Uh.

1129
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 2: And so the punks were to hippies, it looked like

1130
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 2: the Man, the Revenge of the Man. You know that

1131
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 2: all the hippies rebelled against suits and short hair and everything.

1132
01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 2: Suddenly the suits and short they were peering up from

1133
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 2: the streets, wild eyed, high on sniffing glue, and uh.

1134
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 2: It was like every hippies nightmare.

1135
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: Okay, have you ever sniffed glue?

1136
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 2: I tried it. I don't get it. Uh no, don't

1137
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 2: do it. There's there's gotta be a better way of

1138
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 2: getting high.

1139
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 1: Okay, in the era, how are you with alcohol and drugs?

1140
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 2: Drugs, Yes, alcohol, not so much. We were stoner's drinkers

1141
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 2: were a different trime. And I was still leftover hippie.

1142
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 2: I guess, uh California kid, Uh still smoking pot as

1143
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 2: medication to I was. I was an anxious guy looking

1144
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 2: at these diros. The activity, I mean, unbelievable hard slog.

1145
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 2: The police was after curved Air in the lap of

1146
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 2: luxury with three roadies, light show and everything you know

1147
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 2: and a salary uh and curve in police. It was

1148
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:58,919
Speaker 2: scrabbling for every penny, carrying our gear in and out,

1149
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 2: driving the length of the nation for a gig, you know,

1150
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 2: for thirty quid? And so I forget where are we going? Oh?

1151
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 1: You gottat you covered? Let me go back. What we

1152
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: didn't mention is you end up in a relationship with

1153
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: the lead singer of Curve Deer, who also comes with

1154
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 1: a child. Yes, what is she thinking about you at

1155
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 1: this point scrounging and starting over?

1156
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 2: Well, we were both at it. She on her own,

1157
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 2: she had her solo career which she was pursuing with

1158
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 2: great energy, and we both were living parallel lives, struggling

1159
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 2: with our various bands, and she was doing a lot

1160
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 2: better than me. Because she had the momentum of being

1161
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 2: the star singer of Curved Air, and so she was

1162
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 2: doing much better than me, and I was, you know,

1163
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 2: an appendage. You know. We go places and meet people

1164
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 2: and they would be all interested in meeting her, and

1165
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 2: I'm standing there like a lunk, and who could care less,

1166
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:59,879
Speaker 2: you know, And that was sort of my social position.

1167
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 2: And one day my group kind of came out from

1168
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 2: under and overtook. But you know, we were we're very

1169
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 2: bonded and had you know, we're both working it every

1170
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 2: which way we could.

1171
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 1: And how did that relationship end?

1172
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 2: Oh? Three kids, twelve fifteen years later something I can't remember.

1173
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 2: How we eventually did get married and and my camera's

1174
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 2: running low on guests. We eventually did get married, and

1175
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 2: she came with a son, and we had two more boys,

1176
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 2: and how did it end? We eventually divorced very amicably,

1177
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 2: and we had, you know, when I was traveling the

1178
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 2: world and playing Polo and Lottie Dot and she was

1179
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 2: still you know, she didn't want to be seen in

1180
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 2: the Mercedes with her hippie friends, playing folk clubs and everything.

1181
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 2: She hated the image of being the rock star's wife,

1182
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 2: and she wouldn't be caught dead in the Mercedes. You know,

1183
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 2: only a you know, a third hand VW bus would

1184
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 2: suit her. And she's just a wonderful person. I've been

1185
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,759
Speaker 2: very blessed, fortunate and both of the women that I married.

1186
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so so far this story is about you. At

1187
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:22,799
Speaker 1: what point do your two brothers become involved.

1188
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:27,639
Speaker 2: Well, my brother Ian was my agent at the age

1189
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 2: of twelve, got me into my first band, the Black Knights.

1190
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 2: He was the coolest kid in Beirut and they really

1191
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 2: wanted him in the band because he was the fonds,

1192
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 2: but he couldn't play drums. My other brother, Miles, was

1193
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 2: kind of a music mogul and he started up the

1194
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 2: company managing bands such as Effect. He put together Wishbone

1195
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 2: Ash and other prog bands of the era that you

1196
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 2: wouldn't have heard over over here in the States, like Renaissance,

1197
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 2: Curved Air, but we are of all those, Wishbone Ash,

1198
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 2: absolutely Climax blues band, Oh I love van Al Stewart

1199
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 2: and such. And they had kind of a music empire

1200
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 2: and that's where I learned all my skills as roadies

1201
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 2: for all the groups and eventually tour manager for some

1202
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 2: of those groups. My first tour of America was but

1203
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 2: Joana Armor trading just her an acoustic guitar and me

1204
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 2: and my briefcase for three months across America, ending up

1205
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 2: in San Francisco.

1206
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 1: What point does Sting come in with roxane and you

1207
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: immediately hear it.

1208
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 2: About a year and a half in. We were struggling

1209
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 2: and starving and going nowhere for about a year and

1210
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 2: a half, and he wrote it without any agenda. It

1211
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 2: was certainly not a police song because we were still

1212
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 2: theoretically a punk band, and he wrote it before Andy joined,

1213
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 2: and he had it there in just one afternoon. He

1214
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 2: was playing it to Andy because you know, out of

1215
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 2: shot of their taliban drummer, you know, because I was

1216
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 2: the one cracking the punk whips and no, we got

1217
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:06,599
Speaker 2: to be punk, we gotta be punk, and they're saying,

1218
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 2: can't we just play, No, we can't play, just play

1219
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 2: some music. We gotta be punk, and they considered me

1220
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 2: to be the wild eyed you know, uh, morality police

1221
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 2: of the band, and so secretly thing might have played

1222
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 2: this Busanova lament to Andy, who immediately said, we got

1223
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 2: to play that, we gotta play that, which we did

1224
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 2: for every song, whatever song He pulled out. We suddenly

1225
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 2: we got to play that, and so he pulled it

1226
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 2: out in a rehearsal and I gave it a drum

1227
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 2: beat that was kind of bass awkwards uh and made

1228
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 2: it into a police song. It wasn't punk Barama, but

1229
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 2: it was still a rock song, even though it was

1230
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 2: kind of a lament. And that was about a year

1231
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 2: and a half into the band, you know. And by

1232
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 2: the way, it sank without a trace when it first

1233
01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 2: came out and can't stand.

1234
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:01,759
Speaker 1: Okay, but anybody heard in America it was one listened

1235
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 1: smash and it was played. Did you realize how great

1236
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 1: it was? Or it was just another sting song.

1237
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 2: It was a throwaway song. And it was my brother

1238
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 2: Miles who put his finger on it. That's what he does.

1239
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 2: He provides dumbass, which is forgetting musicality sophistication. He hears it,

1240
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 2: folks are going to love this, And I don't care

1241
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 2: if it's any good or not, but I do know

1242
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 2: folks are going to love this. And so we were

1243
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 2: recording our album basically on a deal with the studio

1244
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 2: owner who was just trying to get any bands in there,

1245
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 2: would make any deal just to get some albums recorded

1246
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 2: in the studio so he could establish himself.

1247
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 1: Wait wait, this is Nigel Gray.

1248
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:44,599
Speaker 2: This is Nigel Gray.

1249
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,919
Speaker 1: Nigel Gray was nobody at the time, nobody.

1250
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:50,720
Speaker 2: He just said he was a doctor. He was a

1251
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 2: family doctor who invested in some recording equipment which he

1252
01:13:54,600 --> 01:14:00,639
Speaker 2: put in this above a darry and started just recording

1253
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:02,639
Speaker 2: bands on the off chance that one of them would hit.

1254
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 2: And one of them was Clark Kent, which was me

1255
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 2: on guitar, bass and drums, singing songs that were even

1256
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:13,320
Speaker 2: too dumb for the police, but one of which was

1257
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 2: picked up by Radio one BBC and became a hit.

1258
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 2: They put it on the playlist and suddenly Clark Kent

1259
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 2: is having a hit, which was a secret identity thing.

1260
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 2: And long story short, the Police had released Rock Sand

1261
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 2: and Kanstan Losing You Sank without a Trace, but suddenly

1262
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 2: Clark Kent is having a hit. And so the record

1263
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 2: company got me and the band and signed you know,

1264
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 2: A and M Records, who had just done a singles deal,

1265
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:41,800
Speaker 2: said okay, let's get these guys, let's sign them up

1266
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:43,640
Speaker 2: for an album. And they signed us up for an

1267
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:49,760
Speaker 2: album and we were recording that album when Miles comes down.

1268
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 2: He hadn't. He wasn't officially our manager yet. He was

1269
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,720
Speaker 2: just my big brother, and I used his rolodex and

1270
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:57,679
Speaker 2: his offices and his resources and his wisdom and his vice,

1271
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:02,760
Speaker 2: but he wasn't technically our manager. And he hears all there,

1272
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 2: and you know, it's kind of it's just another rock band.

1273
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 2: Then last thing we played in was rock Sand that's

1274
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 2: a hit. And the legend is that he tore off

1275
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 2: all of his clothes and went running down Leatherhead High

1276
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 2: Street shouting eureka. Well that myth. I started that myth,

1277
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 2: so it's true, and he took it to he said,

1278
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: I'll take that to a record company and and then said, okay,

1279
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,719
Speaker 2: we'll release that as a single. And the rest is history.

1280
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 1: Okay, but let me just wrap up a couple of things.

1281
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 1: One is the album done when you tour America?

1282
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 2: Yes, And when we go to America it is. The

1283
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 2: record company is not aware of us, the American record company.

1284
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 2: In fact, there's a famous conversation where Miles calls up

1285
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 2: the American record company and says, Okay, I got this

1286
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:57,800
Speaker 2: band of the Police, I'm bringing them over and they said,

1287
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 2: don't bring them over. We're not going to give you

1288
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 2: tour support. I never heard of them. They don't mean

1289
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 2: anything but a punk band, forget it. Uh. And Miles

1290
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 2: is never mind. I bring up, well, we're not giving

1291
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 2: you any you know, and there's the famous list of

1292
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,559
Speaker 2: knots that they're not going to provide us. Uh. But

1293
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 2: we came over anyway. We came over with my drums

1294
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 2: as check, you know, as luggage, and uh pulled up

1295
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 2: to the CBGB's in New York City. And by this

1296
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:29,799
Speaker 2: time Miles and Ian had gotten a truck or actually

1297
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 2: a van, a station wagon with two amps and a

1298
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 2: drum set, and they had just brought Squeeze over UK.

1299
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 2: Squeeze who played these the circuit of clubs that my

1300
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:42,759
Speaker 2: brother Ian had found one in Philadelphia, won in Boston,

1301
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 2: Won in New York and so on, Grendel's Lair and

1302
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,760
Speaker 2: the Right Club in Boston, so on, like a circuit. Uh.

1303
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 2: And we were the second band to come over on

1304
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 2: that circuit. Unknown, but we were English and there was

1305
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:57,799
Speaker 2: a scene and you know, for kids who were thirsty

1306
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 2: for something new Thursday night at the Rat Club in Boston.

1307
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:04,040
Speaker 2: Whoever's playing, they're English cool, I'm going down and Uh.

1308
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:07,679
Speaker 2: That's how we started to actually strike a light in uh,

1309
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 2: in America.

1310
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:11,200
Speaker 1: So the legend is the album was not out in

1311
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: America when you toured. Is that correct?

1312
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 2: No, the album was. The record company wasn't aware of it,

1313
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:19,759
Speaker 2: which meant that it wasn't out, but it was available

1314
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:24,520
Speaker 2: on import and radio stations were playing it WBCN and

1315
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:28,839
Speaker 2: and Boston was playing it, uh, w MMR and Philly,

1316
01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 2: you know whatever the stations were. You know they were

1317
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 2: they were playing, particularly college stations, and so uh another

1318
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 2: long story. When I was touring Jon Armer Trading's tournament,

1319
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 2: she was on an M and I met their you know,

1320
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 2: artist relations guy. I happened to know him, and he

1321
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:48,360
Speaker 2: heard about this band and her. You know, he was

1322
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:50,680
Speaker 2: starting to hear they're starting to get positive feedback, but

1323
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 2: not even are they even on our label. They had

1324
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 2: no idea we were signed in England. And so he

1325
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 2: comes out to check out a show in Indiana or something.

1326
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 2: Calls up Jerry Moss the next day, who's the m

1327
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:04,639
Speaker 2: of A and M Records? We got to hit here,

1328
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:08,680
Speaker 2: you know, send money. We didn't need money. We were

1329
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 2: completely self sufficient, you know, two hundred dollars a night

1330
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 2: and we could get to the next city, and uh,

1331
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 2: you know that's two hotel rooms for three, you know,

1332
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 2: three in the band and one guy. Uh. So that's

1333
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 2: when record company A and M showed their true colors.

1334
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 2: They immediately they said, well, let's check this record out. Whoah,

1335
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 2: And they started coming to shows whoa. And by the

1336
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:35,679
Speaker 2: time he got to Los Angeles, the headquarters, they were

1337
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 2: out there on full parade with every resource you know.

1338
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 2: And these are all the things they're gonna do, not

1339
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 2: the knots. These were they gonna can and will do.

1340
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 2: And they really did run with it. They were absolutely

1341
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:50,519
Speaker 2: the best record company ever.

1342
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:54,719
Speaker 1: And were you ever disillusioned, especially driving in a station

1343
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 1: wagon cross country or did you always know you were

1344
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 1: gonna make it? And did you have any idea you

1345
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:01,559
Speaker 1: were going to be as big as you were?

1346
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, And that's the same answer that most musicians

1347
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 2: would give you. Bands are eternally optimistic, mutually affirming. We

1348
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 2: are the best, aren't we? We kick our ass? Don't

1349
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 2: we totally? Last night we blew us away? You know,

1350
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:24,719
Speaker 2: that's how bands work. And so yes, we were convinced,

1351
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,639
Speaker 2: absolutely certain in fact that we would dominate and rule

1352
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 2: the world. And we had that same arrogance from the

1353
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 2: moment the day Sting and I met and we went

1354
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 2: down to the Roxy Club and saw Generation X and

1355
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 2: looking around at the minnows on our left and on

1356
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:45,640
Speaker 2: our right that US sharks were going to eat. We

1357
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,479
Speaker 2: knew that we were going to rule the world, the

1358
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 2: same way Generation X knew that they were going to

1359
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:53,599
Speaker 2: Ruin rule the world, and the same way that Evil

1360
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 2: Edna's Horror Toilet assumed that they were going to rule

1361
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 2: the world.

1362
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 1: Okay, in the beginning, you're writing a lot of songs

1363
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 1: on the albums, and then as the albums go down

1364
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,719
Speaker 1: the path, you're writing fewer songs. What goes on there?

1365
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:12,599
Speaker 2: Well, most of my songs. At that time we're going

1366
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 2: to Clark Kent, and I was managing the band too,

1367
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 2: so I didn't have time. But you can see in

1368
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:25,040
Speaker 2: the book I have the set lists, and the first

1369
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:28,639
Speaker 2: set list are all my songs, one animal song, one

1370
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 2: curved air retread, and you know my handwriting, and then

1371
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 2: one by one, stings songs start appearing, Visions of the night.

1372
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 2: I can't remember whatever they were. They were not the

1373
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 2: big ones that were familiar with now, but they were

1374
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:46,680
Speaker 2: better than anything I'd written, and one by one, and

1375
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 2: then the last one that appears, and it's like now

1376
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty. But look closely and you'll see that

1377
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:57,960
Speaker 2: it's now Sting's handwriting doing the set list, because by

1378
01:20:58,000 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 2: now it's his band.

1379
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 1: Okay, you keep a diary throughout all this why.

1380
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:09,559
Speaker 2: I don't know. I keep stuff, but you.

1381
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 1: Stop keeping the diary according to the book, Well.

1382
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:17,640
Speaker 2: I got a movie camera and that story is taken up.

1383
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:20,599
Speaker 2: You know. The book kind of ends, you know, I've

1384
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:22,799
Speaker 2: got date sheets of what happened when you got to America,

1385
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:28,200
Speaker 2: but the narration really ends when we leave England and

1386
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 2: go to America, and the story is picked up there

1387
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 2: by my Super eight camera and the film Everyone Stairs,

1388
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,000
Speaker 2: which came out a few years ago, you know, which

1389
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 2: is all the Super eight footage of the Rise and

1390
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 2: the rocket ship ride of the Police, which I got

1391
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 2: all of on Super eight.

1392
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:49,160
Speaker 1: So when you go through the diaries and your other paraphernalia,

1393
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: are you reminded of what happened? Or you remember vividly? Anyway?

1394
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 2: Well, my memory is wrong in many cases, and I've

1395
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 2: learned that I've been set right by fans sometimes. And

1396
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:04,920
Speaker 2: somebody would say, when you used to play such and

1397
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 2: such a song. Did you use the such and such?

1398
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:09,559
Speaker 2: And they go, well, we never played that song, And

1399
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:12,280
Speaker 2: then another family, Oh, yes you did, and here's a recording.

1400
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:17,439
Speaker 2: So memory is a very flexible thing, very creative thing.

1401
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:21,479
Speaker 2: And the diary, you know, I read Sting's book, Andy's book,

1402
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:27,639
Speaker 2: Henry's book, Miles's book, and their memories diverged from mind.

1403
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 2: But I've got the receipts.

1404
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 1: So how did you actually assemble the book?

1405
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:36,599
Speaker 2: I didn't, Well, I did. I wrote all the commentary, uh,

1406
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 2: describing what's these mysterious because a lot of big events,

1407
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 2: you know, I met Sting, I met this bass player

1408
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 2: named Sting. I had no idea that this is going

1409
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:46,639
Speaker 2: to change my life. So it doesn't have a it's

1410
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:48,840
Speaker 2: not a red letter day. There isn't like a it's

1411
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:52,240
Speaker 2: not underlined in capital letters or anything. It's just you know,

1412
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 2: I didn't realize at the time. So there's commentary, modern

1413
01:22:55,479 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 2: commentary that goes along with it. And uh, I wrote

1414
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 2: that in the pictures and doodles and accounts. I sort

1415
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 2: of and not photoshop it in word. I just sort

1416
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 2: of plunked the images that I wanted to use, but

1417
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,639
Speaker 2: they but the publisher had an artist who really turned

1418
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:17,120
Speaker 2: it into a work of art with all his graphic design,

1419
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 2: and it's a coffee table book. It's very visual and

1420
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 2: it has all my doodles and accounts. Don't look too

1421
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:25,880
Speaker 2: closely at the numbers.

1422
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:28,759
Speaker 1: So where can people get the book?

1423
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:33,599
Speaker 2: I think it's available online. Rocket Books is the publisher,

1424
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 2: and I don't think it's in stores, and so I

1425
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:39,080
Speaker 2: think you got to buy it online.

1426
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 1: But is it going to be in stores at some point?

1427
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:44,400
Speaker 2: I hope so, yeah, I hope. You know. They did

1428
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 2: the book, which I don't know costs whatever a book costs,

1429
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 2: and then they did the deluxe version for two hundred dollars,

1430
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 2: two hundred dollars because I sign it, or some little

1431
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 2: upgrade meaningless upgrade. And then for five hundred dollars you

1432
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,240
Speaker 2: can get the same book with some other with a poster.

1433
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 2: Those went overnight. The most outrageously priced versions of the book.

1434
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:12,880
Speaker 1: Is this book a labor of lover? You actually making

1435
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:13,479
Speaker 1: money here?

1436
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 2: Well, those stupidly priced ones turn over instant moolah. But

1437
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 2: it was a labor of love. It was just fun

1438
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 2: to do.

1439
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:27,560
Speaker 1: Okay, you're very verbal with a very strong personality.

1440
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 2: Not so much at the moment and.

1441
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 1: You, well, we're reaching the end of the feeling we've known.

1442
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, and you have this charisma. How do you

1443
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 1: get along with people? People who are either in orn

1444
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:41,240
Speaker 1: or they say I can't get a word in edgewise,

1445
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:44,320
Speaker 1: or it's oil and water or it's all groovy. What's

1446
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 1: it been like during you?

1447
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 2: I'm a noisy son of a bitch and I'm the

1448
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,360
Speaker 2: epitome of the interrupting cownt.

1449
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:54,640
Speaker 1: Okay, how is that in the band? How is that

1450
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: in a band?

1451
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 2: Uh? Virtuous for the other guys? And I'm very thankful

1452
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 2: that they put up with me. I am a noisy

1453
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 2: son of a bitch And did that one of the

1454
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:10,560
Speaker 2: other guys in the band is quiet and deep.

1455
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 1: And opposites attract? And did this cause tension in the band?

1456
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 1: And ultimately was it a cause of the dissolution?

1457
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 2: No? No, we fought and there's tension. Then we've realized

1458
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 2: a couple of things. One is that that tension is

1459
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:36,600
Speaker 2: what made the band work the way it did. And

1460
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:42,439
Speaker 2: more importantly, for our souls, we understand that the cause

1461
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:45,799
Speaker 2: of the tension, which was to put it as simply

1462
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:50,639
Speaker 2: as possible, We make music for different reasons. We listened

1463
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 2: to different kinds of music. We make music different ways,

1464
01:25:55,760 --> 01:26:01,160
Speaker 2: with different intentions. Music fills a different place in our lives.

1465
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 2: And so obviously when it comes to you know, whether

1466
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 2: or not we're going to play this song is a

1467
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 2: done deal. It's a great song to listen to, that lyric,

1468
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:15,240
Speaker 2: that's a cool line. Here how we play it? And

1469
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 2: then now comes the other ingredient, which is to give

1470
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:20,839
Speaker 2: a shit, where no one wants to just be a passenger.

1471
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:22,759
Speaker 2: I don't play in a band so that I can

1472
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 2: be like a session guy in my own band. No,

1473
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:28,759
Speaker 2: I have a band so that I can express myself musically,

1474
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 2: and if I don't express myself musically, I shall go mad.

1475
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 2: And so that's because we give a shit and we

1476
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 2: have different intentions, there's going to be a clash. And

1477
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:43,160
Speaker 2: it was not a matter of ego or anything like that.

1478
01:26:43,240 --> 01:26:45,599
Speaker 2: It was just that music is real important to us.

1479
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 2: And when we came to realize that during our reunion tour,

1480
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:55,639
Speaker 2: we had band therapy and we got it all set

1481
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 2: and we couldn't believe it. We realized what it was,

1482
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 2: what was going on. But we still we clash musically,

1483
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 2: and we still the factors that cause that tension are

1484
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,719
Speaker 2: still there, but we understand that it's not evil intention,

1485
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:13,840
Speaker 2: it's not the work of Satan. And when we're not

1486
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 2: making music, we get along really well.

1487
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:19,760
Speaker 1: And everybody's been not everybody. A lot of people have

1488
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:22,240
Speaker 1: been selling their rights in the last couple of years.

1489
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:24,280
Speaker 1: Is that something you've entertained?

1490
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:31,320
Speaker 2: Not really, No, nobody's made an offer. You know. I'm retired.

1491
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:35,120
Speaker 2: I'm comfortable. I live a very simple life, and that's

1492
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:37,640
Speaker 2: really by designs so that I can be free of

1493
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 2: all such considerations. I'm I'm completely free, and as long

1494
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 2: as I don't have ten houses around the world and

1495
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:48,880
Speaker 2: twenty cars and you know, any of that, I live

1496
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 2: a simple life, which makes me free.

1497
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 1: And what might we be looking for from you in

1498
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: the future.

1499
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 2: I'm currently in gauged on a couple of very cool missions,

1500
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:04,920
Speaker 2: but I'm superstitious about talking to them until they come

1501
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:07,519
Speaker 2: to fruition. But I'm deep at it. You know. I've

1502
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:10,080
Speaker 2: been playing Police Deranged for a orchestra for two years

1503
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 2: and I'm done with that, that's for sure.

1504
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:17,600
Speaker 1: Okay, you also became a film composer. Where did you

1505
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 1: get the chops for that? And how did you get

1506
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:20,560
Speaker 1: the gigs?

1507
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 2: I didn't have the chops. I learned them on the job.

1508
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 2: It was Francis Coppola who gave me my first break

1509
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:31,439
Speaker 2: and explained to me what he needed and it just

1510
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 2: came to me. And since I was inventing the wheel,

1511
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:36,320
Speaker 2: it meant that it was different from how you're supposed

1512
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,599
Speaker 2: to do. It equals revolutionary. And I retired from that

1513
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:44,360
Speaker 2: about fifteen years ago, after twenty years. You know, the

1514
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 2: film composer is not an artist, he's an employee. And

1515
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 2: a result of that employment, under the harsh yoke of

1516
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:56,760
Speaker 2: cruel employ I learned all kinds of things that an

1517
01:28:56,880 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 2: artist would never learn. Among those things was orchestra, and

1518
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 2: so I learned. I had an involuntary education in orchestra.

1519
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:10,760
Speaker 2: And then I retired and I do the same job now.

1520
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:13,920
Speaker 2: By the way, I write opera, which is music and

1521
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:19,840
Speaker 2: storytelling with music. Only in this world, the composer is boss.

1522
01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:22,519
Speaker 2: You know, on television, the writer is boss. Everybody works

1523
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:25,600
Speaker 2: for the writer. Films, the director's boss. Everybody works for

1524
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:30,000
Speaker 2: the director. In opera, it's the composers medium.

1525
01:29:30,439 --> 01:29:32,679
Speaker 1: To what degree is there a market for opera?

1526
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 2: None? The business model is to lose money. Rich people

1527
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 2: or governments pay for it. There is an audience for it.

1528
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 2: People do love it, and people do come out and

1529
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:45,120
Speaker 2: see it. It's a very rarefied world. I'm not going

1530
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:47,880
Speaker 2: to play, say Stadium with my next opera, but I

1531
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:51,360
Speaker 2: got to play in Weimar at the National Theater there.

1532
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:54,479
Speaker 2: I got to play last summer my pieces The Witches

1533
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:57,719
Speaker 2: Seed played in Italy and by the Lakes there living

1534
01:29:57,800 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 2: the dream doing opera in Italy and the year before

1535
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:04,679
Speaker 2: that in Germany. And it's just a really fun mission.

1536
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 2: It's no way to make a fortune. It's just a

1537
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:07,960
Speaker 2: really great life.

1538
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: Okay Stewart, I want to thank you for taking the

1539
01:30:11,479 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 1: time to speak to my audience. You've been very forthcoming.

1540
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,559
Speaker 1: Until next time, This is Bob Left SAIDs