WEBVTT - Snow White/Brown/Black

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, folks, do you have a problem. Hey, if

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<v Speaker 1>snow White is not white, welcome to this episode of

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<v Speaker 1>Amy and TJ. What is the big Well, Robes, this

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<v Speaker 1>is a huge, big production this week, the big movie

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<v Speaker 1>coming out Snow White with a character that is not

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<v Speaker 1>white as the lead.

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<v Speaker 2>You had a problem, And do you know what? I

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<v Speaker 2>hesitate because I feel like, yes.

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<v Speaker 1>And no, it's not black or white.

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<v Speaker 2>That is actually the truth, you know, because it isn't

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<v Speaker 2>that simple, and a lot of it for me is

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<v Speaker 2>the why behind it. And yeah, yeah, and also look,

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<v Speaker 2>I think we all agree, everyone agrees there needs to

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<v Speaker 2>be more stories with people of different races and religions

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<v Speaker 2>and creeds and background so that people can look to

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<v Speaker 2>and have characters to rally behind and see themselves in.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm all for creating these new stories. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you want to tell stories of female empowerment and showing

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<v Speaker 2>girls and boys with different backgrounds succeeding and winning and thriving,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's awesome. Who wouldn't love that? But rewriting and

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<v Speaker 2>changing and you're just going to cause controversy, You're going

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<v Speaker 2>to piss people off. And I just don't know why

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<v Speaker 2>it's necessary to retell old stories and change them and

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<v Speaker 2>then expect people to embrace them.

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<v Speaker 1>See that is where okay to that point, So let's

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<v Speaker 1>just stick with snow White. We have, there's plenty to

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<v Speaker 1>get there. Let's just stick with the beloved snow White.

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<v Speaker 1>If you change and again, Rachel Zeckler is the lead

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<v Speaker 1>character here. She's playing snow white, young lady of Polish

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<v Speaker 1>and Columbian descent. I got that right, But no, her

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<v Speaker 1>skin is not white as snow. This has been going

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<v Speaker 1>on for years. When he announced she was the lead character,

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<v Speaker 1>people took issue with Disney. People took issue with her.

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<v Speaker 1>She was the lot of hate was directed her way,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly unfairly.

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<v Speaker 2>She was a breakout star, a young star for being

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<v Speaker 2>cast in Steven Spielberg's rendition remake of West Side Story,

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<v Speaker 2>where she played Maria, a girl of Hispanic descent. That

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<v Speaker 2>makes perfect sense. She was perfectly cast for that role.

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<v Speaker 2>She's an amazing talent, incredible voice, and she fit the

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<v Speaker 2>role as it was traditionally written. And that works.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So she comes along. Of course, a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people just upset, why do you have to take this story?

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<v Speaker 1>And when Disney announced they're doing a live action version.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do you have to take this lead character and

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<v Speaker 1>make her something other than what we know her as

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<v Speaker 1>remember her as, and she historically was a character who

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<v Speaker 1>had skin as white as snow now, so let me

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<v Speaker 1>just stick with that initial thing. Should snow white ever

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<v Speaker 1>be played ever by anyone other than someone who looks

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<v Speaker 1>like they have white skin?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know the answer to that. I really don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I just I don't like the idea of them doing

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<v Speaker 2>it deliberately to be woke. That is annoying to me.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there was incredible success. We talked about this

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<v Speaker 2>with what Linn Manuel did with Hamiltons. I thought that

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<v Speaker 2>was so cool. You made history interesting when you only

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<v Speaker 2>have a bunch of white men, and now you make

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<v Speaker 2>them cool honestly by giving a different kind of music,

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<v Speaker 2>a different kind of reflection on history. That all made

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<v Speaker 2>brilliant sense to me. This feels contrived and like almost

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<v Speaker 2>deliberately controversial and woke it. They had plenty of people

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<v Speaker 2>they could have.

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<v Speaker 1>Chosen deliberately placating. Is that yes?

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that is what's irritating.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, plenty of people they could have chosen. Here'sn't a

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<v Speaker 1>thought what if she was the best.

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<v Speaker 2>Then that's different.

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<v Speaker 1>What if they were I don't know this, No one

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<v Speaker 1>has said that. But what if they were able to

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<v Speaker 1>look through all of their options and she actually crushed

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<v Speaker 1>it and was the best option for this role. I

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<v Speaker 1>do not know that. I don't know when Disney first

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<v Speaker 1>set out to do a remake, if they said we

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<v Speaker 1>don't want snow White to be white, I don't think.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't know that was said. Was it open to everybody?

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<v Speaker 1>I certainly would embrace if they open casting for snow

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<v Speaker 1>White and they said everybody's welcome. Sure, that's a good thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have a problem with that either. I really don't.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think if she is, and she may have

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<v Speaker 2>been the absolute best person for the role, it just

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<v Speaker 2>no one's said that. And I just wonder how deliberate

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<v Speaker 2>it was to find someone specifically who was not white

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<v Speaker 2>because they thought that would be cool. And that is

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<v Speaker 2>at this point, that is I don't know how to

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<v Speaker 2>feel about that. Look. I don't think that we have

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<v Speaker 2>to stick to exactly look castings. We know from movies.

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<v Speaker 2>You have a role, whoever wrote the role or wrote

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<v Speaker 2>the screenplay has an idea of who the character is,

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<v Speaker 2>and oftentimes if you look at scripts, they have a

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<v Speaker 2>description of what the character looks like, so I don't

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<v Speaker 2>obviously we know this was a character that was specifically

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<v Speaker 2>written for a specific looking person, and therefore her character's

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<v Speaker 2>name is snow White because as you pointed out, her

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<v Speaker 2>skin was as white as snow. So this was a

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<v Speaker 2>role that was written for that look. I can see

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<v Speaker 2>why some people would take issue with it, because is

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<v Speaker 2>this going too far? I think there is oftentimes when

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<v Speaker 2>there is a need for diversity and a need for

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<v Speaker 2>bigger and better and more interesting and more complete stories

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<v Speaker 2>to be told, that's so true. But when you feel

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<v Speaker 2>like it's an overcorrection, or if it's a decision made

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<v Speaker 2>to be woke, that's when it feels inauthentic and a

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<v Speaker 2>little icky. But I don't know. I don't know what

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<v Speaker 2>the decision was behind it.

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<v Speaker 1>Having a non white snow and white does it? No

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<v Speaker 1>matter what? Is it ultimately going to do more good

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<v Speaker 1>than it does harm in that there are going to

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<v Speaker 1>be a lot more little girls looking at snow White

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<v Speaker 1>and seeing themselves in this character, seeing themselves reflect it.

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<v Speaker 1>Does this widen that full of inspiration? I think a

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<v Speaker 1>little girl of color can certainly be inspired by seeing

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<v Speaker 1>a white character and in the reverse, of course, but

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<v Speaker 1>does that it help in that way? It can't hurt, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>but does it take away from is anybody turned off

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<v Speaker 1>because snow white skin isn't white as snow in a

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<v Speaker 1>movie opening this week?

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<v Speaker 2>I think some people are turned.

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<v Speaker 1>Off, I mean to be upset by I think so far. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously they are, and that controversy has been out there

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<v Speaker 1>now we're talking about just going back and forth on

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<v Speaker 1>just what they call, I guess race switching, race swapping

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<v Speaker 1>or something in Hollywood. But this movie has been in

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<v Speaker 1>trouble for a number of reasons. Now Rachel Zegler and

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<v Speaker 1>Gal Goadote, who stars in the movie as well. Look,

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<v Speaker 1>they are worried now about this movie because these two

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<v Speaker 1>actresses have said some things that have turned some people off.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess Robes, as you have gotten more into it,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess Rachel Zegler has more of a history of

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<v Speaker 1>some comments that really turned people off.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's interesting. Recently we've been hearing all about Gal Gadot,

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<v Speaker 2>so that is what I know. She is an Israeli actress,

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<v Speaker 2>and she has made pro Israel comments, which actually isn't

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<v Speaker 2>that to me controversial. Given where she is from and

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<v Speaker 2>where she was raised, it's not surprising her allegiances would

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<v Speaker 2>be to her home country. However, that of course has

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<v Speaker 2>brought the ire from Palestinian folks who say, hey, you

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<v Speaker 2>need to also show some empathy and show some concern

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<v Speaker 2>for the Palestinians in this conflict. So I get that controversy.

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<v Speaker 2>What I hadn't realized until I really started digging a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit deeper is Rachel Zegler's comments that have caused

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<v Speaker 2>controversy have dated back since I believe many many years,

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<v Speaker 2>because this has been a film in the work since

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<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, she's twenty three, is you know, so a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the stuff she was a very old.

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<v Speaker 2>She was young, and so she has put some things

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<v Speaker 2>out on what's now known as X and then had

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<v Speaker 2>to delete them. But yes, she has made some comments

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<v Speaker 2>that have drawn ire in reference to modernizing the story

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<v Speaker 2>of Snow White, and in reference to her political beliefs

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<v Speaker 2>in this country and to her feelings on the Middle

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<v Speaker 2>East conflict. So she's got a trifecta of comments that

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<v Speaker 2>have caused some controversy.

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<v Speaker 1>First of all, those are the three things your publicists say,

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<v Speaker 1>don't touch these three things.

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<v Speaker 2>So where do you want to do? You want to

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<v Speaker 2>start with.

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<v Speaker 1>What, you know, what I was the comments. Let me

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<v Speaker 1>let me go with the specifically about the movie. First

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<v Speaker 1>of all. Okay, and so if people didn't already give

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<v Speaker 1>her much favor and our snow white fans, this didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Help correct So she well, first of all, the first

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<v Speaker 2>tweet that I know that she had to delete on

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<v Speaker 2>X was when she said, yes I am snow white. No,

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<v Speaker 2>I am not bleaching my skin for the role. She

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<v Speaker 2>had to delete that. That brought a lot of hate

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<v Speaker 2>her way, as she said. Then she said, speaking of

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<v Speaker 2>the original film, she said they were going to modernize it,

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<v Speaker 2>but she said, but our version is a refreshing story

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<v Speaker 2>about a young woman who has a function beyond someday

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<v Speaker 2>my principle come. She's dreaming about the leader. She knows

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<v Speaker 2>she can be all right. But then she went to

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<v Speaker 2>go on and say that the nineteen thirty seven original

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<v Speaker 2>version had a big focus on her love story with

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<v Speaker 2>a guy who literally stalks her. Weird, weird, So we

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<v Speaker 2>didn't do that this time. She also said she was

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<v Speaker 2>scared of the original film. She watched it once, but

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<v Speaker 2>she could never watch it again. So she for people

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<v Speaker 2>who love the film, who grew up with the film,

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<v Speaker 2>who feel a real sense of nostalgia about the film,

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<v Speaker 2>she just kind of spit in their faces.

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<v Speaker 1>So Prince Charming is his name? Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>Correct?

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<v Speaker 1>Is this the right guy?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, he's a stalker, That's what she said. We have

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<v Speaker 1>all come up with this dude, and he was a stalker.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know what? This reminds me of a beloved

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<v Speaker 2>Christmas song that people now call a rape song. It's

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<v Speaker 2>you know in I think we have to at least

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<v Speaker 2>give some of these stories, even that song, a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of perspective that those times and look, even as

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<v Speaker 2>someone my age I was, I grew up looking for

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<v Speaker 2>Prince Charming. I understand why that narrative is outdated. I

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<v Speaker 2>understand I have two daughters where we want to empower

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<v Speaker 2>our young girls. But what's is it something so terrible

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<v Speaker 2>to dream about a prince? Is it so terrible to

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<v Speaker 2>have a prince kit with a kiss? Wake you up?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, I get we're all trying. Like

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<v Speaker 2>even Frozen went on to say that the love story

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<v Speaker 2>was between sisters, not about a guy, and we're doing

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot. We're seeing that a lot, and that's wonderful.

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<v Speaker 2>But is it so wrong for a girl to fall

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<v Speaker 2>in love with a guy and to be happy. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. I just feel like sometimes we go too

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<v Speaker 2>far in the other direction. So that upset a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people.

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<v Speaker 1>So now those were tough, Well, those were tough. It

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<v Speaker 1>almost sounds as if and you and I have been

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<v Speaker 1>watching this a lot recently, guy, in anticipation. We've been

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<v Speaker 1>watching some of the comments and the updates and the

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<v Speaker 1>interviews she's been given, and it's one of the things

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<v Speaker 1>she does was make sure she gives absolute respect to

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<v Speaker 1>that previous version. Now she does, Now she does. She's

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<v Speaker 1>so careful in what she says, and that poor thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I know she's got to be terrified at

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<v Speaker 1>this point because this is a two hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 1>million dollar movie. Yes, that is possibly in a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of trouble because of controversy.

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<v Speaker 2>So she had all of that controversy right, and then

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<v Speaker 2>when the elections were held just a few months ago,

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<v Speaker 2>after November, she went back on to X and she

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<v Speaker 2>had to delete this tweet. But I'm going to go ahead.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I just say the expletive I'm sure they'll just

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<v Speaker 2>leap me out.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if you have to ask, yeah, I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Gonna say so. After the election, she put this out

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<v Speaker 2>on x She tweeted, this is Rachel Zegler Trump and

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<v Speaker 2>made Trump supporters and Trump voters and Trump himself never

0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:45.680
<v Speaker 2>know peace.

0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:52.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all those Trump supporters are moviegoers. You can't turn

0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.240
<v Speaker 1>off half the country by Okay, maybe she made a mistake.

0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:57.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what she was in her moment, but

0:11:57.960 --> 0:11:59.160
<v Speaker 1>obviously she knows that was a.

0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.679
<v Speaker 2>Bad she did oologized later. She deleted the post and

0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.959
<v Speaker 2>said she let her emotions get the best of her. However,

0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.920
<v Speaker 2>it's really hard to unsay some things like that. And

0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.520
<v Speaker 2>to your point, more than half the country voted for

0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.560
<v Speaker 2>President Trump. And now you're asking the entire country and

0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.240
<v Speaker 2>frankly the world to come to your movie.

0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what's the last one on the Then? Yes?

0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:28.120
<v Speaker 2>And so. Then she also posted this on X She posted,

0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.679
<v Speaker 2>free Palestine. I can't watch children die. I don't think

0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:33.760
<v Speaker 2>that should be a hot take.

0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Did she take that one down?

0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see that she took that one down. And yes,

0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.640
<v Speaker 2>she doubled down when asked about it to a magazine.

0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 2>That's when she said I can't watch children die. I

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 2>don't think that should be a hot take, but yeah,

0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:54.599
<v Speaker 2>she posted free Palestine.

0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.400
<v Speaker 1>So as much was we talking about the movie. Getting

0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:03.040
<v Speaker 1>back to what our debate really is about, is is

0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:07.600
<v Speaker 1>it okay if snow White ain't white? And I don't

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.880
<v Speaker 1>know if it's gotten hotter because of her, not because

0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.320
<v Speaker 1>she's non white, but because she's all right, we already

0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.840
<v Speaker 1>don't like that you got the role, but now you're

0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.120
<v Speaker 1>just giving us easy little bait to take here. Is

0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 1>it hotter because of some of that stuff?

0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely? And I think you know you pointed out her age.

0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I have a daughter who is one year younger than her,

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.680
<v Speaker 2>and she's also very passionate about her beliefs. And I

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.440
<v Speaker 2>just think especially this younger generation. I sound old now,

0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.400
<v Speaker 2>but with the empowerment of social media and TikTok and

0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 2>just feeling like you are protected by others who think

0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.440
<v Speaker 2>like you and you don't recognize that there are so

0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.439
<v Speaker 2>many others who don't think like you, and the backlash

0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.360
<v Speaker 2>that that can create. I think there's a I don't

0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.160
<v Speaker 2>want to be patronizing to say that she's naive, but

0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.600
<v Speaker 2>she's twenty three and aren't you just inherently naive, even

0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.760
<v Speaker 2>if you've been a movie star, and even if you've

0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:02.080
<v Speaker 2>been in the public eye, you don't really understand fully

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.640
<v Speaker 2>the weight of your words. Perhaps, and maybe she is

0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 2>learning that the hard way, But I think there's this

0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.240
<v Speaker 2>sense of empowerment. I can say what I want. It's

0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.120
<v Speaker 2>my voice needs to be heard. I need to speak up.

0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.760
<v Speaker 2>And so I'm sure she felt passionate and felt like

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.080
<v Speaker 2>she was doing something and speaking on behalf of people

0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.880
<v Speaker 2>in her generation who aren't afraid to speak out.

0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.200
<v Speaker 1>So to this point, with her as a lead character,

0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.280
<v Speaker 1>we've seen this several times in some very famous and

0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.600
<v Speaker 1>very controversial cases. But I asked that question at the top,

0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.440
<v Speaker 1>is that, okay, if snow white isn't white? And I

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.560
<v Speaker 1>don't think this is a blanket question either, as I

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.360
<v Speaker 1>ask it, can anyone play anyone? Can any actor no

0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 1>eligibly play anyone? No, that is no a question? But

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.480
<v Speaker 1>why right? Based on I don't want to go with age,

0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:48.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, just.

0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:49.359
<v Speaker 2>Take marginalized communities.

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, where right Johnny Depp played Tanto?

0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:55.440
<v Speaker 2>How long ago was that?

0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 1>Ten plus? I mean what was that? Probably fifteen?

0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Exactly? The world has changed significantly when it comes to wokeism.

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.480
<v Speaker 1>In the last wint And played the ancient one in

0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Strange that wasn't that long ago. What I'm saying is,

0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.400
<v Speaker 1>when we go, when we think about it, sometimes there

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.600
<v Speaker 1>is a whitewashing that takes place that we don't necessarily

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.040
<v Speaker 1>get the same screaming and yelling about when it But

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.800
<v Speaker 1>when it's a white character, a famous white character that

0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 1>they tweak, there is a different type of backlash. I

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:27.160
<v Speaker 1>think folks would really understand why.

0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Certainly, well, you've got snow white, then you've got like

0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:34.080
<v Speaker 2>black Panther, right, so obviously it would never be okay

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.080
<v Speaker 2>if there was any kind of a remake where a

0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.280
<v Speaker 2>white person would play anyone in Black.

0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Panther, I would watch that show.

0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.800
<v Speaker 2>But let me, what do you think about it? You know,

0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 2>do you feel like there is that anyone can play

0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 2>any role?

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let me throw a couple of factors in for you.

0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Does it matter if it's a fictional or a real character.

0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Does that actually make a difference? Possibly it does. Do

0:15:59.920 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 1>you care if the race has changed if that character

0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 1>is a fictional character, a Superman, a whatever it may be,

0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:13.680
<v Speaker 1>an Ariel, yeah, okay, versus a real person like Thomas Jefferson,

0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:15.960
<v Speaker 1>George wash Ch Hamlin, that kind of a thing. It's

0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.240
<v Speaker 1>tough to I hate to put Hamilton into this conversation

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.080
<v Speaker 1>because even Lynn Manuel admited this was a They weren't

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.920
<v Speaker 1>playing the guys necessarily. They had the names, but they

0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 1>were new, totally new iterations, so it was hard to

0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.880
<v Speaker 1>just say he's You're not given Thomas Jefferson's words. So

0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.640
<v Speaker 1>that's a hard comparison. But we saw an easy switch,

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 1>and plus you had hip hop. That's kind of a

0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.720
<v Speaker 1>different beast. But does it make a difference, Right, nobody's

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 1>gonna a white guy's not gonna play Malcolm X, right,

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 1>and that kind of a thing.

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.040
<v Speaker 2>Use we're talking about race right now. But you can

0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 2>also now there is a huge, huge push in Hollywood

0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.800
<v Speaker 2>that a gay person should play a gay character, and

0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.840
<v Speaker 2>a trans person should play a trans character, and you

0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.320
<v Speaker 2>should not. You know, a deaf character should be played

0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.720
<v Speaker 2>by a deaf actor. So I guess there is a

0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.560
<v Speaker 2>question about art too, because aren't actors. Isn't that this

0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.040
<v Speaker 2>whole point that you step into the role or into

0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.199
<v Speaker 2>the world of another person and you learn it and

0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.200
<v Speaker 2>you craft it. It's not about playing someone like you,

0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.560
<v Speaker 2>or someone who looks like you, or someone who acts

0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.080
<v Speaker 2>like you, but actually someone who's completely different than you.

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.439
<v Speaker 2>That's part of the craft, that's part of the skills.

0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.959
<v Speaker 2>So we're getting into a point and I'm some of

0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.119
<v Speaker 2>this is necessary, and so I'm not. But you do

0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:32.240
<v Speaker 2>get to a point where who can play what roles?

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.600
<v Speaker 2>And why I don't I don't know the answer.

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:36.160
<v Speaker 1>You hadn't made a good You made a good point

0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 1>on earlier about the motivation matters, right, if it's coming

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.640
<v Speaker 1>from a good place, there's thought put into it, and

0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.080
<v Speaker 1>even the appearance or the background of the character is

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.640
<v Speaker 1>put into the story, woven in some way. That's one thing.

0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.760
<v Speaker 1>It's another of just let's make a black just because,

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.360
<v Speaker 1>and we're trying to appear to be more diverse.

0:17:55.560 --> 0:18:01.159
<v Speaker 2>That's a different feeling as a Black American. Would you

0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:07.840
<v Speaker 2>prefer to have new stories told with black characters or

0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 2>people from different colors and backgrounds, or is it the

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:18.040
<v Speaker 2>same to take old stories and retell them using like

0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Does one make a bigger difference than the other. Because

0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.399
<v Speaker 2>I have read online that there are plenty of black

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.639
<v Speaker 2>people who are offended by this, saying don't throw us

0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 2>a bone or placate us, or say you're showing diversity

0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:36.200
<v Speaker 2>by taking a white story and just putting black actors

0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.359
<v Speaker 2>in there? Is that offensive in any ways?

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.240
<v Speaker 1>It depends certainly on how it's done. I was saying earlier,

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.720
<v Speaker 1>but I don't think it's done well. We have too often.

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.879
<v Speaker 1>But Black Panther, right, that was a phenomenon, and a

0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.399
<v Speaker 1>lot of folks didn't get why that was such a

0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.600
<v Speaker 1>big deal to us. But for some a black, certainly

0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.240
<v Speaker 1>a man, to get superhero treatment in that way is

0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.640
<v Speaker 1>just unheard of. Look, I'm sitting here at forty seven now,

0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.360
<v Speaker 1>but I was into my thirties before I ever dreamed

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.000
<v Speaker 1>that this country could have a black president. I grew

0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:15.880
<v Speaker 1>up not looking at a Barack Obama. I didn't have

0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:20.159
<v Speaker 1>that as an example. So I love the original and

0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 1>the idea of possibility of black stories. Black Panther is

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.479
<v Speaker 1>the best example you can come up with in recent history.

0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.640
<v Speaker 1>But Jesus' criminy. The problem is that was twenty sixteen.

0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:31.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm sitting here with you at twenty Yes, it was

0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 1>that long.

0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.520
<v Speaker 2>Ago, but it was more impactful for you to have

0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:35.960
<v Speaker 2>a black panther.

0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Looking at that that that's me a reflection. It is

0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.479
<v Speaker 1>not just putting my skin tone on somebody you created

0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:43.200
<v Speaker 1>to be white.

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 2>Right, so if you made a Superman is black, it

0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 2>would not have had I don't think the same impact

0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:51.960
<v Speaker 2>as Black Panther.

0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.560
<v Speaker 1>No, I just don't want to see a black Superman

0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.879
<v Speaker 1>flying a while around just because now I think that

0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.159
<v Speaker 1>could be a great film and and it's done well.

0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.439
<v Speaker 1>If we get to a point that him being black

0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.199
<v Speaker 1>has nothing to do with the story, that he's not

0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.480
<v Speaker 1>asked a single question during the press junket about being

0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:15.440
<v Speaker 1>a black man. If we get to that point, hell, yes,

0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:19.520
<v Speaker 1>But until we get there that yes, to your point,

0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Black Panther meant more to me because it is a

0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.760
<v Speaker 1>black story versus just throwing my skin tone on somebody

0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.800
<v Speaker 1>you have always imagined to be white. Now there is it? Okay?

0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.199
<v Speaker 1>We talk about Ari's album is a good example of

0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.359
<v Speaker 1>people really thought it was a possibility he could be

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.959
<v Speaker 1>the next James Bond. You know I Love Me from

0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.760
<v Speaker 1>James Bond. Does that character matter? He was fictional in

0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:46.120
<v Speaker 1>the British Secret Service, always been depicted as white. Does

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.520
<v Speaker 1>it change a thing to see a black man or

0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:50.960
<v Speaker 1>any other color man playing that role? To me?

0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 2>I would just want that man to play that role

0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:55.400
<v Speaker 2>to be British.

0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:57.400
<v Speaker 1>That's it, That's all with you right there.

0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.720
<v Speaker 2>For me, that keeps true to the character. His skin

0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.160
<v Speaker 2>color or skin tone doesn't matter too much as much

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.119
<v Speaker 2>to me as the fact that he's British.

0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.560
<v Speaker 1>That's a very good point, So Zendaia, I think you

0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.120
<v Speaker 1>mentioned her here at the beginning, played MJ and Superman.

0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:15.560
<v Speaker 1>MJ was traditionally but pale skin, redheaded. Yep, right, yes,

0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.119
<v Speaker 1>did that make a difference at all in that movie

0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.360
<v Speaker 1>To not see a white, redheaded MJ didn't mix.

0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:21.680
<v Speaker 2>To me at all.

0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:22.000
<v Speaker 1>No.

0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.640
<v Speaker 2>So, and this is where we get Halle Bailey.

0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Some different territory, Halle Bailey, ariol that was all she

0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:29.879
<v Speaker 1>got so much.

0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.440
<v Speaker 2>So much because there's a oh, you know, white skinned

0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:37.200
<v Speaker 2>mermaid Ariel, who is this famous iconic and yes she

0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.679
<v Speaker 2>was animated, but even in Broadway, you know, anytime anyone

0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 2>wore an Ariel costume to school, which I think my

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.720
<v Speaker 2>girls might have one time for it was the red

0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.920
<v Speaker 2>wig and the so yes, it was such an iconic girl.

0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:53.080
<v Speaker 2>People really had a hard time wrapping their heads around that.

0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at another one here. There's a lot of redheads. Annie.

0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.359
<v Speaker 1>There was a remake not too terribly long ago, probably

0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:06.160
<v Speaker 1>past ten years, Black Girl play Danny. Does that character

0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:11.520
<v Speaker 1>need to keep that red hair and that pale, freckled face.

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:14.440
<v Speaker 2>Right, I mean, it's just so iconic with the role.

0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:19.920
<v Speaker 1>That the look of that character goes with that. Yeah. See,

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:26.080
<v Speaker 1>that's the question. If the race plays you being, whatever

0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:31.240
<v Speaker 1>ethnicity plays, is a factor in the identity of that character,

0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 1>then it needs to stay in that race.

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.800
<v Speaker 2>I would say, I feel like it's just it doesn't

0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.160
<v Speaker 2>feel like what is the reasoning behind it that again,

0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 2>if you can tell me why, then that's fine.

0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 1>But not just a reimagining. Is that enough?

0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.959
<v Speaker 2>I just would prefer another story to be told, a

0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:52.119
<v Speaker 2>different story to be told. I don't know why we

0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:54.640
<v Speaker 2>have to to rewrite.

0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Was that one different enough? It was Jamie Foxx playing

0:22:57.119 --> 0:22:58.320
<v Speaker 1>the billionaire in town.

0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Daddy Warbucks. I actually so, I saw that on Broadway

0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:03.680
<v Speaker 2>and I thought it was amazing. So I was actually

0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.439
<v Speaker 2>gonna say Daddy Warbucks didn't. But Annie and her iconic

0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.680
<v Speaker 2>red hair with a there's just something about that look,

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:13.800
<v Speaker 2>you know what. I did see it on Broadway and

0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.720
<v Speaker 2>it didn't bother me at all. But I can understand

0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:19.560
<v Speaker 2>why it sometimes rubs people the wrong way because they're

0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.720
<v Speaker 2>wondering if you're doing it just to do it, just

0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.520
<v Speaker 2>to get the controversial comments, just to get people to

0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:27.760
<v Speaker 2>watch it. But if there's good that comes from it,

0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:31.159
<v Speaker 2>what harm did it actually do? Not very much? You know,

0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:32.439
<v Speaker 2>That's how I look at it.

0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Y Are Shahiti played tinker Bell in a recent Peter

0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Pan and Wendy, a remake of a classic. Michael B.

0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Jordan played Johnny Storm Fantastic Four, historically been a white character. Now,

0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:48.000
<v Speaker 1>there was an updated Scooby Doo that was on HBO

0:23:48.160 --> 0:23:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Max that Minnie Kling was behind and it was called Velma,

0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:55.040
<v Speaker 1>and so it was the whole crew together, but the

0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:57.240
<v Speaker 1>crew did look like the crew that we grew up

0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:01.959
<v Speaker 1>with on Scooby Doo. Velma is act actually bisexual and

0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:07.120
<v Speaker 1>of South Asian descent. Shaggy is now a black man,

0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:11.240
<v Speaker 1>and then one other character is Asian, I believe as well.

0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:16.359
<v Speaker 1>Now to diversify that crew, that's an iconic crew for

0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:20.240
<v Speaker 1>all of us coming up, Scoofy, Shaggy for that crew,

0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:23.640
<v Speaker 1>love Love Love. Do you update it for a new generation?

0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:26.439
<v Speaker 1>Does it matter? I haven't seen the show so I

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:29.080
<v Speaker 1>can't say what those roles play into their characters.

0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:31.600
<v Speaker 2>And the way for me, having a new round, a

0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:35.240
<v Speaker 2>new generation love the same type of goofy storytelling that

0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:37.320
<v Speaker 2>was silly, family fun does not bother me at all

0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:40.800
<v Speaker 2>of the If the new characters, yeah they're not going

0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:43.520
<v Speaker 2>back and doing the same episodes and redoing them, but

0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:46.480
<v Speaker 2>just switching out skin tones. That feels strange, but yeah,

0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:49.200
<v Speaker 2>when you're retelling it and you've got it, so you're

0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:53.760
<v Speaker 2>getting an entire new generation to see different stories. I'm

0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:58.520
<v Speaker 2>sure there are slightly different scenarios. If it weren't for

0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:01.840
<v Speaker 2>those what are they meddling kids, I would have gotten

0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:04.040
<v Speaker 2>away with it. I'm sure hopefully they can. Honestly, I'd

0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:06.120
<v Speaker 2>be more upset if they somehow took that line out.

0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:09.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure that it is. So if you close

0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:11.959
<v Speaker 1>it to your point, it just closed your eyes and

0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:16.440
<v Speaker 1>everybody can imagine the crew from Scooby Doo yep, now

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:20.359
<v Speaker 1>Shaggy just make them black, Just color them in black

0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:25.000
<v Speaker 1>and give them a fade like that type of thing.

0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Just putting the color on top, doesn't it feels inauthentical.

0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:30.280
<v Speaker 1>You have to have a good story. So yes, it

0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:32.720
<v Speaker 1>was a retelling to your point, which makes more sense

0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:32.960
<v Speaker 1>to you.

0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:34.960
<v Speaker 2>And so I think that is what Disney was trying

0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:39.280
<v Speaker 2>to do with this snow White, because they did change

0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:42.800
<v Speaker 2>the story slightly. They did take out snow White and

0:25:42.840 --> 0:25:45.240
<v Speaker 2>the Seven Dwarves, which is what it was originally called,

0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:48.080
<v Speaker 2>correct and now it's just snow White. So they did

0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:50.640
<v Speaker 2>say it was a retelling, and perhaps in that vein

0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 2>with exactly the argument we are making, I guess they're saying, see,

0:25:54.320 --> 0:26:05.560
<v Speaker 2>that's what we were doing. That's what we are doing.

0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So yes, if that is what they're doing, and

0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:12.680
<v Speaker 1>they're trying to open this up and show change the

0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:16.240
<v Speaker 1>story a little bit and have it more about empowerment

0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:18.320
<v Speaker 1>and female empowerment and not having to be saved by

0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:21.200
<v Speaker 1>a prince and all these things, and they're going to

0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:27.160
<v Speaker 1>make no ideaverse. But Peter Dinkledge says, wait a minute, Disney,

0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:31.000
<v Speaker 1>then why the hell did you do this to the

0:26:31.480 --> 0:26:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Seven Dwarfs.

0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:35.440
<v Speaker 2>So there are two issues with the Seven Dwarfs. First,

0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:40.120
<v Speaker 2>they didn't use little people, so they didn't use actual actors.

0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:44.400
<v Speaker 2>They used CGI. So there are plenty of little people

0:26:44.480 --> 0:26:49.119
<v Speaker 2>who are in acting who are available. You couldn't find

0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:55.120
<v Speaker 2>seven amazing little people who can act to actually give

0:26:55.160 --> 0:26:59.639
<v Speaker 2>them roles, iconic roles that they were literally meant to play.

0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:02.359
<v Speaker 1>You just broke my heart. I didn't think about it

0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:06.600
<v Speaker 1>that way. There's gotta be a shortage of roles already

0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:09.720
<v Speaker 1>for them. Yes, this is one where there are seven

0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:13.480
<v Speaker 1>there are star seven starring roles, and we don't want

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:16.159
<v Speaker 1>you all for any of them. I'm thinking about it

0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:18.439
<v Speaker 1>that way. This would not just because those are a

0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:21.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of options, seven roles available, but it's on the

0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:24.920
<v Speaker 1>biggest stage possible. What that could have meant exactly?

0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:27.879
<v Speaker 2>So that was to me, that's a huge missed opportunity,

0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:31.560
<v Speaker 2>and that was a huge part of Yes, some of

0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:35.000
<v Speaker 2>the criticism, but it's not just that. And Peter Dinklage,

0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:37.720
<v Speaker 2>I love this man. I mean he is one of

0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:41.520
<v Speaker 2>the most brilliant actors ever, I believe, not just because

0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:44.480
<v Speaker 2>I love Game of Thrones, but he's just please, elf,

0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:46.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't even get me started. I love Peter ding.

0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:48.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm never gonna get you started on that man.

0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:52.399
<v Speaker 2>Oh he's an angry ye okay, sorry, what's the one

0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 2>about the meat in the chair. He's like, you're not Santa,

0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:56.840
<v Speaker 2>you smell like meat.

0:27:56.880 --> 0:27:59.640
<v Speaker 1>And cheese, you sit on a throne. That's the one.

0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes. Anyway, I sorry that will say that for a

0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Christmas episode. But so the other thing is, this is

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:08.719
<v Speaker 2>what Peter Dinkliche said. He said, you know, so if

0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:12.000
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about the film and it's heroin being modernized,

0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:15.280
<v Speaker 2>the fact that you still have seven dwarves with names

0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:18.560
<v Speaker 2>like Dopey, you know that has to be questioned as well.

0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:21.080
<v Speaker 2>So I'm going to quote Peter Dinklisch there. He said,

0:28:21.280 --> 0:28:24.679
<v Speaker 2>I was a little taken aback. They were very proud

0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:27.880
<v Speaker 2>to cast a Latina actress a snow White, but you're

0:28:27.920 --> 0:28:30.880
<v Speaker 2>still telling the story of snow White and the seven Dwarves.

0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Take a step back and look at what you're doing there.

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:36.200
<v Speaker 2>It makes no sense to me. You're progressive in one way,

0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:40.640
<v Speaker 2>but you're still making that looking backward story about seven

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:43.600
<v Speaker 2>dwarves living in a cave together. Have I done nothing

0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 2>to advance the cause? From my soapbox? I guess I'm

0:28:46.480 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 2>not loud enough.

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:53.240
<v Speaker 1>Wow, I mean from him, Okay, I mean, how you

0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:55.719
<v Speaker 1>take issue with that? And I didn't think about it

0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:58.480
<v Speaker 1>that way until I actually ended up seeing his comments.

0:28:58.760 --> 0:28:59.960
<v Speaker 1>That's devastating.

0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:03.360
<v Speaker 2>You can't modernize one group and say we're woke on

0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:07.600
<v Speaker 2>this issue. But you know what, the other big part

0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:11.000
<v Speaker 2>of this story, we're not even gonna give you acting roles,

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:15.160
<v Speaker 2>and we're gonna still have you called dopey and grumpy

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:17.880
<v Speaker 2>and so like. If you're gonna change the story, it's

0:29:17.880 --> 0:29:20.240
<v Speaker 2>a slippery slope because if you're gonna try to make

0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:24.600
<v Speaker 2>one character or some characters look better in the world

0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:27.720
<v Speaker 2>we live in and empower them, but you don't do

0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:31.479
<v Speaker 2>that for another huge part of the story, which happens

0:29:31.520 --> 0:29:34.960
<v Speaker 2>to be a very marginalized community who has overlooked in

0:29:35.040 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 2>so many ways and completely overlook them while making this film.

0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:41.200
<v Speaker 2>That's hard to defend.

0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:44.760
<v Speaker 1>You to that even I think they did. I can't

0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:47.200
<v Speaker 1>remember the actors. I'm trying to look it up here,

0:29:48.440 --> 0:29:51.040
<v Speaker 1>but he is a little person who did some voice work.

0:29:51.040 --> 0:29:52.680
<v Speaker 1>I believe you know what I'm talking about, all I do.

0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:56.400
<v Speaker 1>He was upset about a lot of the premieres and

0:29:56.440 --> 0:29:59.040
<v Speaker 1>a lot of things being canceled because of controversy, and

0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:02.000
<v Speaker 1>again they didn't get the role in the movie. But

0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:03.920
<v Speaker 1>now here's an opportunity to walk a red carpet, to

0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:05.520
<v Speaker 1>be out there to talk about it and they're not

0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:11.959
<v Speaker 1>getting that opportunity either. That's that's Peter Dinklis. He is

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:13.840
<v Speaker 1>he is, Yes, he is the one. He has been

0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:17.440
<v Speaker 1>out there. But to his point, are certain people screaming

0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:21.280
<v Speaker 1>louder than others? Are certain people's voices being value? The

0:30:21.320 --> 0:30:22.400
<v Speaker 1>answer is yes.

0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:25.200
<v Speaker 2>The answer is yes, and certain voices are heard more

0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:29.760
<v Speaker 2>than others, and you are. I mean, I think that

0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:32.240
<v Speaker 2>he just nailed it when he said that.

0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:35.440
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know before all of this we've been

0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:38.280
<v Speaker 1>talking about several weeks. Now that's coming out. I don't

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:40.440
<v Speaker 1>know if it would have been on my list of

0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:43.440
<v Speaker 1>things to watch, but it might be now out of

0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:46.440
<v Speaker 1>curiosity and quite frankly, I hear the movie is good,

0:30:46.720 --> 0:30:49.840
<v Speaker 1>like it's a great Disney spectacle. They know how to

0:30:49.880 --> 0:30:50.800
<v Speaker 1>put on a movie like.

0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:54.320
<v Speaker 2>This, and Rachel Zegler can sing, oh there's talent, she

0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:56.440
<v Speaker 2>can say beyond how did you find? Oh? Yes, I

0:30:56.480 --> 0:31:00.240
<v Speaker 2>do so. The little person who he was on one

0:31:00.240 --> 0:31:03.640
<v Speaker 2>hand defending Disney because he said it gave him his life,

0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:05.880
<v Speaker 2>it gave him his career and he was able at

0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:12.840
<v Speaker 2>least to voice grumpy. His name is Martin Klebba and

0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:14.880
<v Speaker 2>he was in the Pirates of the Caribbean. So he's

0:31:14.920 --> 0:31:17.040
<v Speaker 2>done a lot of work with Disney, so he didn't

0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:20.720
<v Speaker 2>want to throw them under the bus, so to speak.

0:31:20.840 --> 0:31:22.840
<v Speaker 1>But and folks, you know his face. As soon as

0:31:22.840 --> 0:31:25.080
<v Speaker 1>you see him, you say, oh, yeah, you can't remember

0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:27.040
<v Speaker 1>what he was in, but he was very prominently featured

0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:27.840
<v Speaker 1>in the.

0:31:27.840 --> 0:31:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Parts of the Caribbean. Yes, so you know, he just said, yeah,

0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:33.800
<v Speaker 2>you could have tried to find seven little people, and

0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.480
<v Speaker 2>he you know, so it's hard to not say you

0:31:37.520 --> 0:31:39.560
<v Speaker 2>can't say that they couldn't have. Of course they could have,

0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:42.480
<v Speaker 2>and they chose not to. That was a decision. So

0:31:42.520 --> 0:31:46.320
<v Speaker 2>that's you know, there are just we were starting down

0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:50.840
<v Speaker 2>this podcast path by saying, okay, wow, is it okay

0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:53.240
<v Speaker 2>to have snow White not be white? And then you

0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:56.360
<v Speaker 2>start looking at all the other controversies. This has been

0:31:56.400 --> 0:31:59.320
<v Speaker 2>a lightning rod and it's coming at it from so

0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:03.120
<v Speaker 2>many different places. I have a question for you. It

0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:05.320
<v Speaker 2>just dawned on me while we were talking snow White

0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:09.800
<v Speaker 2>being played by a Latina actress, and people are that's controversial, right,

0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:12.840
<v Speaker 2>Could snow White be played by a black actress?

0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Would it be? Would the controversy be any different?

0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:24.400
<v Speaker 1>I very similar? Certainly intense, but I think it would

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:32.280
<v Speaker 1>be intense from two sides, right. I think we are

0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:35.160
<v Speaker 1>just there's a dearth of roles for black folks in

0:32:35.200 --> 0:32:39.960
<v Speaker 1>these very prominent ways. Now, I am I would be

0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:42.160
<v Speaker 1>more on board if it was a black actress and

0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:46.160
<v Speaker 1>there's a retelling I am putting a black one. I

0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:48.720
<v Speaker 1>am very glad it's not a black woman that's being

0:32:49.080 --> 0:32:51.320
<v Speaker 1>put in this role right now. A retelling. And we

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:53.160
<v Speaker 1>were talking about this earlier. We haven't said it yet

0:32:53.400 --> 0:32:57.760
<v Speaker 1>before we started Brandy Cinerelli playing Cinderella. Yes, it was

0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:00.320
<v Speaker 1>a black Cinderella, but the whole story.

0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:05.160
<v Speaker 2>Rudy Houston was the fairy Godmother and they retold it

0:33:06.480 --> 0:33:08.440
<v Speaker 2>and it came from a black lens, and so it

0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:09.920
<v Speaker 2>made sense to cast.

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Black brothers Wizard of the Wiz the Wiz best favor

0:33:14.200 --> 0:33:18.200
<v Speaker 1>again telling it's a retelling of the story. So no,

0:33:18.320 --> 0:33:20.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't just want to see a black actress there.

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:23.479
<v Speaker 2>The music was changed, the cultural significance of it all

0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:26.680
<v Speaker 2>a shame, so it made sense. It didn't feel inauthentic.

0:33:26.840 --> 0:33:30.800
<v Speaker 2>It was an authentic retelling of a parallel story. And

0:33:31.160 --> 0:33:34.080
<v Speaker 2>I think that's super cool, and I think that's an

0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:36.240
<v Speaker 2>awesome thing for everyone to see and witness.

0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.640
<v Speaker 1>There's a do you know there was a Rapunzel coming,

0:33:39.680 --> 0:33:43.240
<v Speaker 1>There's a Tangled. They're doing a live action version, and

0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:47.480
<v Speaker 1>this young lady just believe Indian actress in the American

0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:50.840
<v Speaker 1>I believe I have that right. Just her being rumored,

0:33:52.120 --> 0:33:55.320
<v Speaker 1>everybody came after her, just being rumored possibly to be

0:33:55.360 --> 0:34:00.240
<v Speaker 1>a part of Rapunzel Entangled. People came after her.

0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's not kind or fair at all. That's terrible

0:34:04.920 --> 0:34:07.520
<v Speaker 2>and awful. Again, I do believe that is the role

0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.680
<v Speaker 2>of an actor to assume different characters and different roles

0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:12.359
<v Speaker 2>and make them your own. And I think that's one

0:34:12.360 --> 0:34:15.640
<v Speaker 2>of the cool things about the art and craft of acting.

0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:18.399
<v Speaker 2>But I do think that when you do and when

0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:22.640
<v Speaker 2>you're a company and you make a choice to remake

0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:27.839
<v Speaker 2>a traditional story, and especially something like snow White, you're

0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:32.200
<v Speaker 2>going to have to expect people to be upset when

0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:34.720
<v Speaker 2>you change it so much that it doesn't even maybe

0:34:35.000 --> 0:34:37.040
<v Speaker 2>feel like the original, and yet you're trying to tell

0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:41.480
<v Speaker 2>an original story. It's not the Whiz, it's not Brandy sindirect.

0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:44.359
<v Speaker 2>It's that those are yes, those are very different. Now

0:34:44.360 --> 0:34:48.200
<v Speaker 2>we haven't seen snow White and we were going to

0:34:48.200 --> 0:34:50.040
<v Speaker 2>see it correct. I think we have to know.

0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:52.919
<v Speaker 1>This has nothing to do about a criticism of the movie,

0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:56.719
<v Speaker 1>nothing at all. This is just this debate that continues

0:34:56.760 --> 0:34:59.680
<v Speaker 1>to happen and probably will continue to happen, that it's

0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:02.400
<v Speaker 1>okay we hate to leave a white character white, and

0:35:02.440 --> 0:35:05.600
<v Speaker 1>it's also sometimes okay to make that white character not

0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:08.760
<v Speaker 1>white anymore. It really is a case by case basis,

0:35:08.760 --> 0:35:12.759
<v Speaker 1>but sometimes it feels like forced diversity. You don't like that.

0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:16.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't like that. I don't like this push. And

0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:19.319
<v Speaker 1>if you're just putting a black character up there, and

0:35:19.320 --> 0:35:22.640
<v Speaker 1>then every producer, every writer, every grip guy, everybody on

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:26.680
<v Speaker 1>set is still majority white, you're not diversifying anything. You're

0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:28.640
<v Speaker 1>just trying to make people out there think you're diverse.

0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:29.719
<v Speaker 1>I ain't on board with that.

0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:30.520
<v Speaker 2>It's patronizing.

0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that doesn't feel good, but this will continue to

0:35:33.840 --> 0:35:34.200
<v Speaker 1>come up.

0:35:35.120 --> 0:35:38.919
<v Speaker 2>And who Like we were just in La we saw

0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:43.440
<v Speaker 2>the protests around the you know, the skilled back.

0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:45.960
<v Speaker 1>We didn't need Opening night.

0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:47.960
<v Speaker 2>We didn't even know because.

0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:50.840
<v Speaker 1>It was blocked off with these huge bushes. You couldn't

0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:53.759
<v Speaker 1>even tell that there was a premiere happening. Yes, all

0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:56.400
<v Speaker 1>the stars we walked right past where it was happening.

0:35:56.560 --> 0:35:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Had no idea.

0:35:57.360 --> 0:35:59.279
<v Speaker 1>Because the only reason we had a general idea is

0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:01.960
<v Speaker 1>because there were protess on the corner.

0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 2>So it's been you know, massively scaled back. And then

0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:10.200
<v Speaker 2>we saw gal Gado getting her star. We saw them

0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:13.520
<v Speaker 2>literally buffing it. We were walking by, and then we

0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:15.280
<v Speaker 2>saw them set up the tents as we were leaving

0:36:15.880 --> 0:36:19.480
<v Speaker 2>for her big moment, her big star on the Hollywood

0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:23.239
<v Speaker 2>Walk of Fame. But so that controversy was so fresh

0:36:23.280 --> 0:36:25.399
<v Speaker 2>in my mind because we were hearing about the Palestinian

0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:30.919
<v Speaker 2>conflict with Hamas and Gaza. But when you really start

0:36:30.920 --> 0:36:33.239
<v Speaker 2>taking a look at this movie, it has It has

0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:36.719
<v Speaker 2>been under fire for years now.

0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:39.279
<v Speaker 1>And that's too bad because a lot of people did

0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:43.000
<v Speaker 1>good work on this movie for sure, and again from

0:36:43.080 --> 0:36:45.600
<v Speaker 1>all accounts, it is a good movie.

0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:48.920
<v Speaker 2>It'll be interesting to see how it does.

0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Go up for it is the thing. It's gotten me interested.

0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:53.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious to see it now. I wouldn't have gone.

0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:55.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm just not my jam.

0:36:56.440 --> 0:36:58.279
<v Speaker 2>I am so excited. You're gonna go see it with me?

0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness, No, we're in Okay, call him up.

0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:05.080
<v Speaker 1>Everybody wants to go see it. But are people going

0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:07.080
<v Speaker 1>to now go see it because of the controversy. Are

0:37:07.239 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 1>people going to sit out because of the controversy? Do

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:13.000
<v Speaker 1>you think any little white girl is looking at this now? Oh,

0:37:13.040 --> 0:37:14.840
<v Speaker 1>she's not white anymore. I'm not interested.

0:37:15.040 --> 0:37:17.120
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't think so. I don't think that's going

0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:20.360
<v Speaker 2>to stop any little girl. And frankly, as a mom

0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:24.080
<v Speaker 2>my girls are grown, but that would never ever say

0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:27.279
<v Speaker 2>they aren't telling the story right, Nah, But I think

0:37:27.320 --> 0:37:31.680
<v Speaker 2>there is some eye rolling and we'll know how people

0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:35.760
<v Speaker 2>feel when we see what this opening weekend ends up being.

0:37:36.239 --> 0:37:39.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, we've had actually all day today as we're recording here,

0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:42.839
<v Speaker 1>we're in the living room and we have had Snow

0:37:42.880 --> 0:37:46.560
<v Speaker 1>White on, had it playing on the original y is

0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 1>the original just during the day. There's still something about it. Yes,

0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:53.280
<v Speaker 1>obviously there were issues with it, but there's still something

0:37:53.320 --> 0:37:56.120
<v Speaker 1>nostalgic about it. It makes you go just ah, I just

0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:58.720
<v Speaker 1>look up and see grumpy and whistle.

0:37:58.760 --> 0:37:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Why you work?

0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:05.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there's something about it that still brings true

0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:06.280
<v Speaker 1>to your heart, makes you smile.

0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:10.440
<v Speaker 2>It's nostalgia. It's your childhood's We all grew up watching

0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:14.480
<v Speaker 2>it and singing it. And you know what, maybe this

0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:19.080
<v Speaker 2>new movie will have a whole new generation loving it

0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:22.279
<v Speaker 2>for lots of different reasons, and us old people can

0:38:22.400 --> 0:38:24.160
<v Speaker 2>just go away.

0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:29.560
<v Speaker 1>And shut up. Old people go away to shut up.

0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Now we will go see it, probably won't come back

0:38:32.160 --> 0:38:33.560
<v Speaker 1>and do a review, but we kind of want to

0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:36.160
<v Speaker 1>intentionally talk about this before we went to see it,

0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:38.440
<v Speaker 1>so we wouldn't have been because we're gonna love Rachel

0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 1>in it, and then we would come back and say, well,

0:38:40.640 --> 0:38:43.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure she didn't mean to sing that, okay, but

0:38:43.960 --> 0:38:46.000
<v Speaker 1>we wanted to get this out ahead of time, so

0:38:46.560 --> 0:38:48.879
<v Speaker 1>enjoy it. Watch it if you want to enjoy it.

0:38:49.960 --> 0:38:51.239
<v Speaker 1>But for now I'm teaching.

0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:52.800
<v Speaker 2>And I'm Amy. Thanks for listening.

0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:02.799
<v Speaker 1>Put the Guts