1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarcklay and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is Thursday, thanks for being here, twentieth of November. 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio Satellite Radio Channel one twenty one, streaming live 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: right now on YouTube. And if you've got YouTube TV, 9 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: by the way, they've got us up there as well. 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: Watch Bloomberg originals if you want to see the radio 11 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 2: on TV. So it's all about numbers here, right. You've 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: got a White House talking about the strength in the 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: job market. You've also got a market worried about strength 14 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: in the job market keeping the FED from cutting. But 15 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: let's see what we have here. Unemployment highest level in 16 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: four years. Now again, this is September, right, this is 17 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: when the government was shutting down and they didn't put 18 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: out all the data that was had. So we're going 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: back in time here. Positive dynamic as I read on 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 2: the terminal of more Americans participating in the workforce, and 21 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: as well the gloomier reality of more people losing their jobs. 22 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: Payrolls today coming in one hundred and nineteen thousand, it's 23 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: more than twice the estimate, but it depends on the 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 2: estimate because Bloomberg Economics saw a net gain of one 25 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 2: hundred thousand jobs, and that's why we thought we'd spend 26 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: some time with the face of Bloomberg Economics. Anna Wong 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: is with us, chief used economist at Bee. 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 3: Great to see you, Anna. How come you were closer 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: than everybody else? 30 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 4: Well, So the way we forecast is that we look 31 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 4: at home Base, which is a small business centric private payrolls, 32 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 4: and what we have noted is that small businesses have 33 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 4: improved hiring since I would say the middle of this year. 34 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 3: So I think for. 35 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 4: That segment of the job market, there's some job openings 36 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 4: that's going on. But I think at the end of 37 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 4: the day, what's worrisome, as you mentioned, Joe, is the 38 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 4: unemployment rate that we are seeing that the permanent job losses, 39 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 4: the U two unemployment rate, which tends to capture more 40 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 4: of the cyclical dynamics, show that the number of job 41 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 4: losses in terms of permanent job losses is almost back 42 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 4: to where it was last year. So July twenty twenty 43 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 4: fourth was a very weak moment in the labor market 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 4: and that was what prompted the FED to cut by 45 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 4: fifty BIPs in September last year. And we're almost close 46 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 4: to that now, so I think there is a case 47 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 4: for the FED to cut in December. 48 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 3: All right, there you go. 49 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: Now, the word in our headline on the terminal is fragile. 50 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: That the fragility under the hood is what this market 51 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: is concerned about, and you're reflecting that in your statement. 52 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 2: What is this going to mean for a month from now? 53 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: Is this the beginning of a longer term trend? 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 3: Yeah? 55 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 4: So, so you know, there are a little bit of 56 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 4: good news in the in I mean not a little. 57 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 3: Bit, a lot of good news in this jobs report too. 58 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 4: For example, the strength on the headline payroll one of 59 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 4: the reasons was the construction sector. And you would think 60 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 4: it's surprising because the housing sector is definitely cooling data center. Yes, 61 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 4: so it is a specialty trade construction workers that are 62 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 4: in high demand. So the AI is showing up even 63 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 4: in the payrolls data. And also you have leisure hospitality 64 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 4: increasing and because I think the weather was great in September, 65 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 4: and also the dollar depreciation from earlier this year is 66 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 4: supporting foreign tourism. However, it is just but if you 67 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 4: think that AI is ultimately going to improve productivity, and 68 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 4: as I do, I do think that AI will be 69 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 4: boosting productivity growth into twenty twenty six, this weakness in 70 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 4: hiring will continue because that's how the productivity. 71 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 3: Games come where they come from. So I do think 72 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: that we are. 73 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 4: Going to continue to see a lot of payrolls that 74 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 4: could be fluctuating between ten k to eighty K. 75 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 3: I want to hear from the Labor Secretary. 76 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 2: We spoke earlier today with Thri Chavez Dreamer on Bloomberg 77 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: TV and Radio. 78 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 3: Here's how she reflected these results this morning. 79 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 5: This was a solid report for the September numbers. We'll 80 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 5: have to see how November numbers come out in mid December. 81 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 5: But I think that this is good for the American people. 82 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 5: We know that more people are wanting to work and 83 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 5: they're actively seeking those jobs, and so it is my 84 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 5: responsibility to make sure that we have that skilled workforce. 85 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 2: So talk to us in this case about participation and 86 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 2: how that played into the unemployment rate. 87 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 4: Recall that earlier this year, we had three consecutive months 88 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 4: of drop in labor participation, and that was one reason 89 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 4: why unemployment rate was stable. 90 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: But suddenly today we. 91 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 4: See this for four hundred thousand increase in population growth 92 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 4: and over I think two hundred thousand in labor force increase, 93 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 4: and that was one reason why the unemployment rate increase today. 94 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 4: I think that this might be an anomaly. I just 95 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 4: I am not at all confident that labor force participation 96 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 4: is improving. 97 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: Because if you think that. 98 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 4: The AI trend is going to happen, that should lead 99 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 4: to decreased hiring amongst college graduates, the people from in 100 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 4: twenties to early thirties, as we have seen in China, 101 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 4: because China's AI adoption is faster than the US, and 102 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 4: I think that society provides a little glimpse of what 103 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 4: the labor market could look like once it's faster at 104 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 4: AI adoption. 105 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 3: That's fascinating. 106 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 2: I would love to hear more about that, because this 107 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: is what we're hearing that jobs, for instance, new college 108 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: graduates are just falling off a cliff right now. The 109 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: push and pull here in Washington about how to regulate 110 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: this to protect the job market is a difficult one, 111 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: because no one knows exactly what it's going to look like. 112 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: Do we each get a digital twin or are we 113 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: replaced by a bot? What's China teaching. 114 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: Us about that? 115 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 4: I think China is teaching us that AI is deflationary. 116 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 4: And in fact, Jansen Haun's presentation yesterday and they're earning transcript, 117 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 4: I was surprised that they actually mentioned how AI is deflationary. 118 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 4: It is talking about they were talking about how AI 119 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 4: is reducing costs in all these other areas they named, 120 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 4: like a whole bunch of companies that are buying in 121 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 4: video chips and from a range of industries from healthcare 122 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 4: to low's helping with the supply chain. 123 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: And that's by simply increasing productivity or what's the contoring costs? 124 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: But how do you lower costs through AI? By increasing 125 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: productivity or eliminating labor. 126 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 3: It's the same thing. 127 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 4: Productivity is exactly the flip side of the coin is 128 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 4: just a better way to say, limiting labor. 129 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 3: So what's already happening. 130 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: Then that means some of people's fears are being realized here. 131 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 3: So I think so. 132 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 4: But that view is quite polarizing because I think if 133 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 4: you survey like economists. 134 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 3: You will see half of them saying. 135 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 4: That there's no evidence at all of productivity from AI, 136 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 4: because I think generally arrogant labor productivity takes about two 137 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 4: or three years before it shows up clearly. Like in 138 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 4: the nineteen nineties, the statistics didn't show any sign of 139 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 4: productivity boom until nineteen ninety seven. Then they revise all 140 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 4: the data and suddenly nineteen ninety five when it's our boom. 141 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 4: May however, the evidence of productivity starts at firm earning, 142 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 4: at the micro level, and we are seeing that right now. 143 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: Incredible, So you know, you start thinking about the near 144 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: term boost in hiring that you point out construction workers, 145 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: the data center expansion, so it puts everybody to work 146 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: to build this whole thing out. 147 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: Also, we can end up without a job by the 148 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: time it's over. 149 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 4: Well, I think that, I think, I think two things 150 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 4: are happening at once. You have this uh labor demand 151 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 4: generating from building out the infrastructure you require for broad 152 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 4: based productivity gains because because right now the productivity gains 153 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 4: from AI is really concentrated in it or sales or 154 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 4: legal white collar sectors. But for it to generate broad 155 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 4: based against you, everybody needs to be adopting it. And 156 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 4: in the Nvidia earning yesterday, Jensen's AI is everywhere and 157 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 4: he like named all these sectors that is using AI. 158 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 3: So we're in the beginning of that. 159 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 4: And I think in a year or two, once this 160 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 4: infrastructure is build out, in the meantime getting like a 161 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 4: lot of labor demand in those uh, then we'll see 162 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 4: more productivity gains. But in the meantime, in the transition phase, 163 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 4: I do think that the slow down and labor demand 164 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 4: as a result of adoption of AI with more than 165 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 4: offset the increase in demand from like building data center 166 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 4: in the construction sector or HVAC or the specialty trade. 167 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: We better figure out a way to retire here pretty soon. 168 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: I know producer James is working on it. And thank 169 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: you so much. I learned something every time I talk 170 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 2: to Anna Wong, and I think you probably do every 171 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: time you listen to her. And it's a great pleasure 172 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: to spend time with the chief US economist at Bloomberg 173 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 2: Economics on a job's Thursday. 174 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 3: Still getting used to that. 175 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew and Washington Cliff Young from IPSOS on 176 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 2: the way in next as we turn to polling on 177 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: the economy on Bloomberg. 178 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 3: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much 179 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 3: more coming up after this. 180 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch 181 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 182 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 183 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 184 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: New York station. 185 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 3: Just say Alexa, play Blue eleven thirty. 186 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: We've got concerns about a slowdown in jobs, although that 187 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 2: seems to be helping people get their heads around another 188 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: interest rate cut. 189 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 3: I don't know. 190 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: Look, you can find a way to make good news 191 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: bad news and make bad news good news when it 192 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 2: comes to the Fed pretty easily, So we'll put that 193 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: down for a moment. The issue of affordability is very 194 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: real for many Americans. And when you think about what 195 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: Anna Wong just talked about, the permanent job losses that 196 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 2: we're seeing, for instance in the September data, put against 197 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 2: the prospect of rising prices once again, or at least 198 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: stubbornly high prices, and we've got some issues here. This 199 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: is why the White House has been talking about so 200 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 2: called affordability or dare I call it inflation? For weeks now, 201 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: the President has been saying in interviews and speeches that no, 202 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: prices are lower. And he got to this yesterday during 203 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 2: the big Saudi investment conference that took place at the 204 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 2: Kennedy Center. 205 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 3: That was a heck of a speech. 206 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 2: We could do a lot of different cuts on this, 207 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: on a lot of different topics, but he got to 208 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 2: this issue. Let's call it inflation for a moment, or 209 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: or just prices for that matter. 210 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 3: Cost. 211 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 2: I think we heard a lot about costs. 212 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 3: In the election the other day. 213 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 2: And I know this is a game of semantics, but 214 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 2: the President seems perplexed by the changing rhetoric here around 215 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: this very stubbing issue. Listen to what he said about affordability. 216 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 6: Don't make it incredible, strives to make America affordable again. 217 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 6: That's a new word that they're using, affordability. We're bringing 218 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 6: prices down. But they came up with a new word, affordability. 219 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 6: And they look at the we were all about affordability, 220 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 6: and everyone assumes that that meant said, no, their prices. 221 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: Were high there being I guess democrats affordability. It is 222 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 2: a term that we used pretty often in the American lexicon, 223 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: just like the word grocery, which the President has also 224 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: wrestled with. He was grinding through that term grocery for 225 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 2: some time on the campaign trail, and it still comes up, 226 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 2: grocery and the things it represents. 227 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 3: Here. 228 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 6: You remember a simple word like that, groceries. It was 229 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 6: like almost a strange word. I hadn't heard the word 230 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 6: in so long. But what could be more beautiful than 231 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 6: the word groceries. It's just an old fashioned term, but 232 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 6: a beautiful term. Groceries. It sort of says a bag 233 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 6: with different things in it. 234 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: It's a bag with different things in it. As he 235 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 2: said a couple of times as well. B lt right, grocery, bacon, lettuce, tomato. 236 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: We wonder again how much time the president has spent 237 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: in a grocery store. And you have to consider the 238 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: origin of the term. I'm you know, he is right, 239 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 2: it is. It's an old word. You might think it's beautiful. 240 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: Comes from the old French grocery, meaning wholesaler. Did you 241 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 2: know that yeah, was used to describe merchants who sold 242 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: goods in large quantities by the gross. I get it now. 243 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that something is gross. The earliest use 244 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: of grocery in English around the fourteenth century referred to 245 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 2: a wholesaler or the goods they sold in bulk were, 246 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 2: in the words of the President, everything. 247 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 3: That you put in a bag. 248 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 2: Now I fast forward to the numbers that they're churning 249 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: out at IPSOS here because I'll put this all together 250 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 2: for you in a minute. Affordability, grocery, and the headline 251 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: from Cliff Young Trump's inflection point, the economy rears its 252 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 2: ugly head. Cliff is the US Public Affairs Chair at 253 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 2: ipso's professor at Texas A and M University's Bush School 254 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: of Government and Public Service. Cliff, it's great to have 255 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: you back. What do you think of when I use 256 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: the term grocery. 257 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, well, at first and foremost, I think that the 258 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 7: president there's a bit of disconnect there between what real people, 259 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 7: real Americans in the day to day lives are are 260 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 7: experiencing and how you call it. Right, that doesn't matter 261 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 7: whether you call it groceries or affordability or a banana. 262 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 7: The problem is if you talk to people, you talk 263 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 7: to the average person, they can't make ends meet, they 264 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 7: don't have as much money at the end of the month, 265 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 7: and they're scared because it's not just about the present problems, 266 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 7: it's also about future anticipation. There's trepidation about tariff, there's 267 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 7: trepidation fear about AI, and you put that all together 268 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 7: and Americans, I would say, are in a surly mood. 269 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 2: So if I say grocery, that doesn't help. If I 270 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: say it different, affordability, cost inflation. Do people care about this? 271 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: Are you doing like word bubbles on this stuff? 272 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 4: No? 273 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 7: You know, US analysts called it affordability. US analysts call 274 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 7: it inflation inflation rate. They average America is talking about 275 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 7: making ends meet, how much money is left over at 276 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 7: the end of the month. They're worried about their kids 277 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 7: that are coming out of college that can't find jobs. 278 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 7: These are very practical, very real issues. 279 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 3: And indeed, just. 280 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 7: To emphasize again the disconnected that you just showed with 281 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 7: the President, Biden committed the same area the Body administration 282 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 7: as well by saying that the economy was doing well 283 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 7: when it wasn't doing well. It's very important for decision 284 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 7: makers to understand that Americans truly don't feel like they 285 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 7: can make ends meet today. 286 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 2: Well, I wonder what people make of this rhetoric. Obviously 287 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: that some of that was from the campaign trail, and 288 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 2: he was obviously elected after that. Mike Walsh used to 289 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: make fun of the whole grocery thing on the trail. 290 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: But you remember a time when George hw Bush was 291 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 2: mocked for not knowing the price of a gallon of milk. 292 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 3: Right, he didn't know what the scanner was. 293 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: At the grocery store, and people said, my god, he 294 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 2: doesn't even know what it's like to live in this country. 295 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 3: That doesn't seem to be an issue for. 296 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, but his approval ratings when it comes to 297 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: the economy are not good. 298 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 3: Cliff, what are you learning? 299 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I think it's showing by the way I 300 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 7: think that the economy is having impact. People are feeling it. 301 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 7: Donald Trump obviously start off as this second term in 302 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 7: a lower place relative to historical averages, but in a 303 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 7: pretty good place. He's been outstripping for a big chunk 304 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 7: of this year twenty seventeen. Right now, he's at forty 305 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 7: two percent approval rating. That is the average of all 306 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 7: the polls out there, not just IPSOS. 307 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 3: Is that good or bad? 308 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 7: While I would say it's trending negative, if you put 309 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 7: that into historic context, the decline over this year for 310 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 7: Donald Trump is about eight or nine. 311 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 3: The historic average is five. 312 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 7: And when you get close to forty, that's like the 313 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 7: inflection point. That's the moment when administrations really have to 314 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 7: worry about things. Going below forty is a really negative 315 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 7: signal to the markets in general and more specificates in 316 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 7: the political market. So, no, he's not in a good place. 317 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 7: And the primary driver of this is the economy. It's 318 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 7: how people are feeling day to day. 319 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 3: Look no further than Walmart. 320 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 2: I don't know if President's been inside of Walmart lately, 321 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 2: but number one, we know a lot of people are 322 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 2: trading down So Walmart's pretty crowded place these days. And 323 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 2: we got earnings from the company this morning. It was 324 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 2: a beat and raise, but the company warned that higher 325 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 2: costs are coming. Walmart's been eating the tariffs largely, and 326 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 2: we're about to start getting shipments of goods that have 327 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 2: higher tariffs on them from different parts of the world. 328 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 2: Here the stock is higher at the moment, but separately 329 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 2: announced this concern about the quarters ahead. Cliff what would 330 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 2: that mean for the president if this story continued to 331 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: get worse. 332 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, retail writ large, including Walmart, have been trying 333 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 7: to manage the inflationary aspects of tariffs in the short term. 334 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 7: They can't keep a rain on that forever. You know, 335 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 7: if you look at chief economists, whether at associations or banks, 336 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 7: they're basically saying saying that the impact, that is the 337 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 7: tariff inflation impact will hit in the fourth quarter and 338 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 7: the first quarter. That is not good for Donald Trump 339 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 7: and administration. And inflation has a negative impact. Now it 340 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 7: won't be huge probably, we're not talking about five points 341 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 7: five percent greater inflation or ten percent. We're talking a 342 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 7: few points. But even then that will affect his approval ratings. 343 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 7: Our estimate here is ips es between one and three points. 344 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 7: So if he's at forty two, that takes him down 345 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 7: the forty or thirty nine. So again it's a they're 346 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 7: difficult headwinds right now presently, not a good place looking 347 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 7: forward because of inflation. A pretty negative scenario from a 348 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 7: political perspective. 349 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, President's been talking about Thanksgiving at Walmart a lot. 350 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 2: He actually referred to it as a study at one point. 351 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 2: It's basically a promotion, right, It's a coupon you get 352 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 2: this bundled meal that is according to Walmart and the President. 353 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 3: It's true. 354 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 2: I think it was twenty five percent cheaper or something 355 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 2: like that than last year, but it also includes a 356 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: lot less food, So it's maybe no wonder. Would sending 357 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 2: two thousand dollars checks to everybody in the country help, Well, it. 358 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 7: Wouldn't hurt, right, And I think that at the very 359 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 7: least give the Donald Trump administration credit for trying to 360 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 7: align with the problem with the scenario, that is, people 361 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 7: are feeling the pin to the squeeze of affordability. I 362 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 7: think it speaks to it, but I think the problems 363 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 7: are greater than just that. Ultimately, our experience with this 364 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 7: sort of pump priming done not just the United States 365 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 7: but around the world is that it has a temporary impact, 366 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,719 Speaker 7: but the macro conditions tend to swamp them out. So 367 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 7: I would say, yes, it's not bad. It's it's directionally correct, 368 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 7: but probably too little, too late to have an impact 369 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 7: from a public opinion standpoint. 370 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 2: Always great to spend some time with you, Cliff. Thanks 371 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: for coming back to see as Cliff Young ipsos. Of 372 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,959 Speaker 2: course you can also, if you're lucky, sit in his 373 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 2: class at Texas A and M University's Bush School of 374 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 2: Government and Public service. 375 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 3: Pretty interesting story. 376 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: I guess the President will continue talking about affordability and 377 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 2: grocery and if you think about the two thousand dollars checks, 378 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 2: so you could buy a lot of groceries with that, right. 379 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: I mean, as the President says, bacon, lettuce, tomato, eggs, 380 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 2: prices are down on eggs. He talks about that a lot. 381 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 2: I'm getting hungry around here. Stay with us on Balance 382 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this. 383 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 384 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 385 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You 386 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon on Alexa from our 387 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 388 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: So this is a curious moment, and maybe if you're 389 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 2: a member of Congress, you would have felt a little 390 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 2: bit better at this time if you were paying attention 391 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 2: to the new stock trading ban that has yet to materialize. 392 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 2: This is a big story in Washington this week that 393 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: you probably haven't heard a lot about, with the Epstein 394 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: stuff happening on one end of Pennsylvania Avenue and the 395 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 2: Saudis on the other. 396 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 3: Stock trading ban. 397 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: We've had this conversation before in Republicans, as we read, 398 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 2: are putting pressure on the Speaker to advance legislation that 399 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 2: would make it. Well, it would prohibit the idea of 400 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 2: insider trading for lawmakers, which has a different wrinkle. On 401 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 2: Capitol Hill, they're in hearings that involve a lot of 402 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 2: different companies and a lot of different policy that impact companies, 403 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 2: and you obviously don't want your government representative trading on that. 404 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: Didn't think it was that controversial, but it was a 405 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 2: big deal when this piece of legislation finally got a 406 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: hearing this week in front of the Admin Committee, and 407 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: Tim Burchett, the Republican from Tennessee, spoke to reporters when 408 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: it was done. 409 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 8: Listen, everybody talks about this place being a dad gum swamp. 410 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 3: It's not a swamp. A swamp is something cool God created. 411 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 8: It's a It filters water, animal life lives and flourishes 412 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 8: around it. 413 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 3: This is a sewer. 414 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 8: This is created by man and it needs to stop. We've, 415 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 8: you know, for years Congress has been using hard work 416 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 8: in American taxpayers money to get rich dad gum it's 417 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 8: got to stop. America knows what the heck's going on. 418 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 8: Everybody wants to knock Pelosi. Heck, she's not even in 419 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 8: the top ten. 420 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 3: Wow. 421 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know there's a whole eats f trek in 422 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 2: the Pelosi trades. So I thought this was a swamp. 423 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 2: It's not a swamp. 424 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 9: Now. 425 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 2: I was feeling good about being in a cool place. 426 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 2: God created that filters water and allows animal life to flourish. 427 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 3: Let's see how the panel feels about this. Rick Davis 428 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 3: is with. 429 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: US Bloomberg Politics contributor, Republican strategist and partner at Stone 430 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: Court Capital, and look at that. Kristen Hawn is here 431 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 2: as well, Democratic strategist and partner at Rock Solutions. Great 432 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 2: to have you both here, Ricky, can't you can't beat 433 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 2: a good Tim Burchett line like that. But I'm just 434 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 2: curious your thoughts on this and why it is so 435 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 2: controversial on Capitol Hill. 436 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 10: Nice to hear a Southern accent on the show every 437 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 10: now and then. 438 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 3: And Tim's right, I mean, mompster nice. 439 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 10: This used to be one in Washington and we built 440 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 10: a sewer right on top of it, and that's called 441 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 10: Capitol Hill. 442 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 3: Look this is a bipartisan thing. 443 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 10: Democrats and Republicans have been complaining about this, the lack 444 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 10: of implementation of the current ethics rules governing stock trades, 445 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 10: and yet leadership, whether it was Pelosi or Johnson or 446 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 10: any of his predecessors, have really ignored this, not taken 447 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 10: it seriously. But the door is get busted down. I mean, 448 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 10: like these Republicans and Democrat backbenchers, non leadership types, have 449 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 10: taken control of the Chamber. 450 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 3: They shoved over a huge. 451 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 10: Bill to release the Jeffrey Epstein files, and now they're 452 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 10: on a warpath and they're even talking about doing a 453 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 10: discharge petition on this one. 454 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 3: If they aren't given a vote on the floor. 455 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 10: So my guess is that Johnson's picked a few fights 456 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 10: too many to control this Congress, and now he's got 457 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 10: a divided Congress and it's not ours versus D's, it's 458 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 10: leadership versus everybody else. 459 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow. 460 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 2: By the way, I believe it's Ana Paulina Luna who's 461 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,719 Speaker 2: behind that discharge petition. So the walls may be closing 462 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 2: in here for Speaker Johnson. Kristen, we're going to try 463 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 2: to play a Tim Burchett cut like that every day 464 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 2: just to make everybody smile. But while we're sitting here 465 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 2: in the swamp or sewer, depending on what you want 466 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 2: to call it, Speaker Johnson withstand the forces of nature here. 467 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 11: I think it's really interesting. You know, Rick, I'm from Texas. 468 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 11: I can bust out of Texas Oxon if you'd like. 469 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 11: Everyone tell them we're all together. But no, I think 470 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 11: you know, they got a taste of what it's like 471 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 11: to be successful with a discharge petition and Congression Man 472 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 11: Luna has has this one. I will add a few 473 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 11: little nuances here. This is hugely popular with the American people. 474 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 11: I think it pulls at like ninety percent across the board, 475 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 11: Republicans and Democrats. There are some complications though, and I 476 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 11: can tell you that a lot of the members really 477 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 11: don't like it. And you know, if you're looking at 478 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 11: this from you know when you when you decide to 479 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 11: run for Congress, and there are a lot of restrictions 480 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 11: what you can and can't do. 481 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: This is one more of those. So you know, say, 482 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 3: if if you have. 483 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 11: A child, you're a member of Congress and their grandparents 484 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 11: passed down some stocks to them, they have to sell 485 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 11: those within one hundred and eighty days. It's another barrier 486 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 11: to entry. Not to say that nothing should be done, 487 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 11: but I think that there are a lot more mixed 488 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 11: feelings behind the scenes about this. Then a lot of 489 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 11: the members are saying out loud because they know how 490 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 11: popular it is with the American people. 491 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,479 Speaker 2: Well, that's true, and boy, we should note there was 492 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 2: a Stock Act already. There is a set of rules 493 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: here for lawmakers to follow. Rick, how come that's not enough. 494 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 10: Well, they held a hearing on this yesterday. That's part 495 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 10: of what has percolated all the press interest in this hearing. 496 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 10: By the way that Johnson was not allowing anybody to attend. 497 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 10: I mean he was trying to stop the hearing until 498 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 10: he finally let you know, Fitzpatrick and Burshett and others, 499 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 10: you know, take take it on and and basically it's 500 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 10: it is a set of ethics regulations that are really 501 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 10: not effective. And what they really want to do is 502 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 10: just basically say you can't trade individual stocks. You want 503 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 10: to ETFs, you know, you want to trade on the 504 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 10: pull CETF, no problem. But when you start picking stocks, 505 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 10: you betray the fact that every major issue, and some 506 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 10: in a confidential nature, pass through that Chamber, and you 507 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 10: can't refuse yourself on everything, because that's basically what you 508 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 10: would have to do if you see the kinds of 509 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 10: confidential information, it goes through the Congress. And so rather 510 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 10: than worry about the conflicts, just take them out, take 511 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 10: out individual stock trades. The current ethics regulations do not 512 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 10: require that, and that's really the key crux of this bill. 513 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 2: There is something called the Unusual Wales Subversive Democratic Trading ETF. 514 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 3: This is real. The ticker symbol is NANCE NA n C. 515 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 2: This is for Nancy Pelosi, Christen, this is actually, this 516 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 2: is real. It mirrors trades that have been recorded by Democrats, 517 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 2: the trading activities of Democrats members of Congress in the 518 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 2: last year. It is up twelve percent in the last 519 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 2: five years. If you followed the trades of Nancy Pelosi 520 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 2: and Democrats in the House, you would be up seventy 521 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 2: eight percent. It's now trading above forty four dollars. This 522 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 2: is obviously some kind of a game here, Kristen, that 523 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 2: people are having fun with, and you know the NANCE 524 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 2: ticker symbol and all that, but a lot of stock 525 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 2: investors in the Capitol members themselves say this is part 526 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 2: of their income because they don't make as much money 527 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 2: in some cases as they think they should. What do 528 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 2: members actually think of this? 529 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 11: I mean, I think i've there's been a lot of 530 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 11: coverage of that, you know, I think you know, members 531 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 11: of Congress it is, you know, the the level that 532 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 11: they make, it's in the high almost two hundred thousand, 533 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,959 Speaker 11: which is a lot of money. But they also have 534 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 11: to you know, pay for out of their own pocket 535 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 11: places to stay in Washington, d C. Now, I don't 536 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 11: want to be a you know, an apologist for everybody 537 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 11: there there. It's very difficult to figure out, you know, 538 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 11: the rules and the ethics violations, and a lot of 539 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 11: times they're not enforced. So, you know, I understand that 540 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 11: something needs to be done with these members as far 541 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 11: as enforcing all of this. But there are challenges to 542 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 11: being a member of Congress if you're not independently wealthy already, 543 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 11: which is a problem. 544 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 545 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 2: CC just put up the Nance chart in the clutch incredible. 546 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: Ed reminds us this compares with an eleven percent one 547 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 2: year gain in the S and P five hundred. You 548 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 2: would have beat the market, rick if you followed nance 549 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 2: up twelve percent. 550 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 3: Is this the problem? Yeah? I think it is part 551 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 3: of the problem, and. 552 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 10: Members tend to look the other way when you know 553 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 10: some of the more scandalous things happen where you have 554 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,719 Speaker 10: a committee member who's seeing confidential information, trades on it, 555 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 10: and you know it tends to get swept under the 556 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 10: ethics rug. I think one of the tactics that Brian 557 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 10: Fitzpatrick's talking about is actually, since we know it, start 558 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 10: listing all the members' trades when they happen. I mean, 559 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 10: you know, so if you really want to make a 560 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 10: living at it and you need extra capital, then you 561 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 10: won't mind all the taxpayers seeing. 562 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 3: Exactly what you're up to. 563 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 10: So those guys who walk out of hearings great on 564 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 10: the information. 565 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 3: Just make it public. No problem. 566 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 2: Here you go, rip the covers off the bed Rick Davis, 567 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 2: Kristen Hahn. This was a great conversation and one that's 568 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 2: right down the middle on Bloomberg, the true intersection here 569 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 2: of Washington and Wall Street. We'll let you know what 570 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 2: happens to that legislation as it makes its way potentially 571 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 2: to the floor. 572 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. 573 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us a great hour on Balance 574 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 2: of Power only on Bloomberg Radio. Stay with us on 575 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 2: Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this. 576 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance Power podcast. Catch us 577 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 578 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen 579 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us 580 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: live on YouTube. 581 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 2: One of the big questions we've had about Nvidia this 582 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: week is the transfer of its technology to not only 583 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 2: Middle Eastern nations, but of course. 584 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 3: Eventually or not, China. 585 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: The company's earnings report did not show sales of the 586 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 2: H twenty chips in China, and we knew that would 587 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 2: be the case because there have been no export licenses 588 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 2: talked about here. When it comes to advanced chips like 589 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 2: Blackwell chips, which the president had floated at one point 590 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 2: potentially selling to China, Michelle, this is something that's not 591 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 2: going to go away anytime soon. The President is selling 592 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 2: these chips to Saudi Arabia, and there are concerns, of 593 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 2: course about them getting into the wrong hands. 594 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 12: Right and while these chips and F thirty five technology 595 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 12: and everything that else, everything else that came up this 596 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 12: week as we're looking at these Saudi TI Absolutely. 597 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 2: We talked about it with the Denver Riggleman just yesterday. 598 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, the former Republican congressman has 599 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 2: his eyes on this creep of technology. 600 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 3: Here's what he told us on Bloomberg. 601 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 13: Regardless of the relationships you have to have for certain 602 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 13: strategic goals or objectives, you have to look at the 603 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 13: government itself, but you also have to look at what 604 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 13: happens with something called FM foreign material exploitation. And the 605 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 13: fact is, if we're providing chips or F thirty five's, 606 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 13: we're providing technology, advanced technologies, and the Russians are there 607 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 13: also with their technologies, they can exploit what we have 608 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 13: without us having insight into that. 609 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 2: It's a concerning prospect, and it's where we start our 610 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 2: conversation with Congressman Andrew Garbarino, the Republican from New York's 611 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 2: second District, who serves on not only financial services but 612 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 2: also homeland security or in fact he is chair and 613 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 2: that's why this is central to the conversation that we're having. 614 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 2: Mister chairman, welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. It's 615 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 2: great to see you. Do you share Denver Riggleman's concerns 616 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 2: when we talk about multi billion dollar deals with the 617 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: likes of Saudi Arabia, knowing that China built a good 618 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: amount of Saudi Arabia's Internet infrastructure, and there are worries 619 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 2: about this getting into the wrong hands, do you share them. 620 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 3: Well, absolutely. 621 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 9: It's always a concern when we develop great technology here 622 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 9: and then we export it, it's always a concern that 623 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 9: it gets into the wrong hands, because that's what the 624 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 9: bad guys do. So I'm always concerned that the good 625 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 9: work work that we do here falls in the wrong hands, 626 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 9: which is why we have to be extra visil in 627 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 9: making sure that we protect our critical infrastructure here at 628 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 9: home to protect against these foreign actors they get if 629 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 9: they get access to this technology. 630 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 12: Mister Sherman, I know among the things that you're working 631 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 12: on in this space is looking at Anthropic and their 632 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 12: concerns that there was a Chinese hack of their AI technology. 633 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 12: I'm wondering where do we stand on that. Have you 634 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 12: seen the evidence of that case? 635 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 9: Well, we haven't. The federal government has not determined FBI, 636 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 9: since they have not determined if it is a if 637 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 9: it was a Chinese back back to attack, anthropic did 638 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 9: come out and it's report saying that China was behind it. 639 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 9: What I do know is it was the most aggressive 640 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 9: use of AI in a cyber attack. We've seen AI 641 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,879 Speaker 9: being used by the bad guys and these in cyber 642 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 9: attacks for for years now, but this was the most 643 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,439 Speaker 9: aggressive use and it is very concerning that it could 644 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 9: just get worse. H So, one thing I've been talking 645 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 9: about with with the private sector. You know, eighty five 646 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 9: percent of our critical infrastructure is held by the private sectors, 647 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 9: controlled by the private sector, is if the bad guys 648 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 9: are going to be using AI to attack us, we 649 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 9: should be we should be using AI implementing that in 650 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 9: our cyber defenses, because you know it is gonna it's 651 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 9: gonna be impossible to fight this aggressive use of AI 652 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 9: and cyber attacks by just human intervention and defense alone. 653 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 9: So we have to we have to step up. 654 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 3: Our game aned AI. It's a b AI. 655 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 2: It brings us to, speaking of cyber and AI, some 656 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 2: of the legislation that you're putting forth, mister Chairman. The 657 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 2: Pillar Acts supports state and local cyber programs as well 658 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 2: as strengthening cyber resilience against state sponsored threats. Act that 659 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 2: would create a joint task force focused on external threats, 660 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 2: the likes of which we're discussing right now. Does this 661 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 2: argue with the type of deal that we were just 662 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 2: discussing between the US and Saudi Arabia or help to 663 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 2: make it possible? 664 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 9: Well, I think the second bill you mentioned, the one 665 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 9: dealing with the foreign state actors, is hugely important because 666 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 9: it's actually going to help us streamline our response to these. 667 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 3: Attacks by other our foreign adversaries. 668 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 9: You know, we kind of did this after nine to eleven, 669 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 9: where we had intelligence agencies that were not talking to 670 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 9: each other, and then after nine eleven, we made them 671 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 9: so they had to talk to each. 672 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 3: Other and they had to share information. 673 00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 9: Now, our cyber border is a new battlefield, and making 674 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 9: sure that the FBI, CIS, other federal agencies are sharing 675 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 9: information and sharing it also with the private sector, you know, 676 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 9: so we can we can protect against these foreign adversaries, 677 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 9: especially when it comes to attacks on our critic critical infrastructure. 678 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 9: That is that is something that why we're I'm so 679 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 9: proud this bill passed. Hopefully the Senate moves it, uh 680 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 9: so you know, we can streamline our response to the 681 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 9: thousands and thousands and thousands of attacks that we see 682 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 9: every day from foreign actors in the likes from the 683 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 9: likes of China, Russia, you know, North Korea, UH, and 684 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 9: the other the other bill, the Pillar Act. You know, 685 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 9: federal government has a lot of money, they have a 686 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 9: lot of expertise. But our our state local governments, municipalitalities, counties, mayors, 687 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 9: the cities, UH, they don't have the money, they don't 688 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 9: have the expertise, even though they also control a lot 689 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 9: of critical infrastructure. So this this grant program is a 690 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 9: continuation of one that's been going on. 691 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 3: Will help these uh, these. 692 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 9: Local governments state protected because they need it. And I 693 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 9: think this year we've said forty four states have been 694 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 9: hit by cyber attacks, so we need to prepare them 695 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 9: so they can defend against these cyber attacks as well. 696 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 3: So very proud of the two pieces of legislation past 697 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:19,439 Speaker 3: the House this week. 698 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 12: Well, mister Sherman, let's talk about the other side of 699 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 12: the equation too. Of course, as you're aware, the debate 700 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 12: has been raging this year between the strict national security 701 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 12: hawks and those who are taking kind of a more 702 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 12: protecht stance. Some of the White House kind of are 703 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 12: trying to find that nice middle ground there. You mentioned 704 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 12: protections earlier. I'm wondering how does this apply to the 705 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 12: TikTok case. We haven't heard movement on that. The Chinese, 706 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 12: of course, said that they're ready to resolve help resolve 707 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 12: the issue. 708 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 3: Where do you think that will fall. 709 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 12: I know you voted for the divestor van so called bill. 710 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's again, you know, we're waiting for information. 711 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 9: Like you said, it's kind of be aaching to see 712 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 9: who's controlling the algorithm, who's controlling the data. This is 713 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 9: all questions that we haven't gotten the answers to yet. 714 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 9: And I understand that a lot of people want TikTok 715 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 9: to TikTok to continue, but I have major concerns over 716 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 9: what happens with that data. So I'm going to save 717 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 9: judgment on what I think of the final deal until 718 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 9: I get some more information on it. But I am 719 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 9: very concerned about who controls the data, who controls the algorithms, 720 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 9: and it's something that myself and my colleagues are keeping 721 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 9: a close eye on. But you know, data protection across 722 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 9: across the board, all these new technologies that are coming 723 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 9: a the use of AI, I am a major proponent 724 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 9: of including when Congress acts, when the federal government acts 725 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 9: on laws or regulations, there should be some sort of 726 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 9: cybersecurity protections built into UH, into these regulations, into these requirements, 727 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 9: into the language, so we have that extra protection for 728 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 9: our people. 729 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 2: Conderson, Tomorrow's a big day for New York here in Washington. 730 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 2: As you well know, the mayor elect, uh Zoron Mamdani 731 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 2: is going to be in the Oval Office for a 732 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,760 Speaker 2: meeting that he requested. The President has been talking about 733 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 2: this on Truth Social and just now the Press Secretary 734 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 2: Caroline Levitt said that a communist is going to be 735 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 2: coming to the White House tomorrow. 736 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 3: What do you hope comes from this meeting? What's this 737 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 3: all about? 738 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 9: Well, you know, I appreciate the President taking the time 739 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 9: to meet with the new mayor, the mayor elect, But 740 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 9: my main focus is as a New Yorker and chairman 741 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 9: of the Homeland Security Committee, is that New York remains 742 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 9: a safe place to live, visit and work and UH 743 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 9: and I hope the President makes clear to the mayor 744 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 9: that his past anti police comments, pass anti police rhetorick. 745 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,879 Speaker 3: Is not gonna it's not gonna last. It's not gonna exist. 746 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 3: He can't act this way. It's mayor uh. 747 00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 9: And if and if he does anything that makes New 748 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 9: York less safe, the President is my support in doing 749 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 9: what he needs to do and making sure it stays safe. 750 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 9: You know. 751 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 3: The next year's the twenty fifth anniversary school tomorrow. Yeah, 752 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,720 Speaker 3: I look at you know, this is an important topic. 753 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 3: Next year's the twenty fifth anniversary. Nine to eleven. 754 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 9: You know, this was you know, Department of Homeland Security, 755 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 9: the Committee of Homeland Security. This started after nine to eleven. 756 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 9: So I'm not gonna sit by, and the President's not 757 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 9: gonna sit by. If the mayor decides that his policies 758 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 9: are going to make New York less safe, you know, 759 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 9: we're not gonna We're not. 760 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 3: Gonna put up with it. 761 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 9: And you know, I hope the President makes that painfully 762 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 9: clear tomorrow in the meeting. You know, I'm sure they'll 763 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 9: discuss other things, but my number one concern is making 764 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 9: sure New York City remains a safe place. 765 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 3: We'll be keeping our eyes and ears on this. 766 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 2: Congressman Andrew Garbarino, Republican from New York, second Chair of 767 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 2: the Homeland Security Committee, it's great to have you with us. 768 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 2: Mister chairman, Thanks for your insights today on Bloomberg TV 769 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:54,800 Speaker 2: and radio. 770 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 771 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,839 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 772 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 773 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at Noontimeeastern at 774 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com.