1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:20,316 Speaker 1: Pushkin ladies and gentlemen. 2 00:00:20,916 --> 00:00:25,436 Speaker 2: Give it up for the greatest capitalists in the history 3 00:00:25,876 --> 00:00:27,836 Speaker 2: of the United States of America. 4 00:00:28,596 --> 00:00:29,836 Speaker 3: Elon Musk. 5 00:00:30,996 --> 00:00:34,596 Speaker 1: In October twenty twenty four, nine days before the US 6 00:00:34,716 --> 00:00:39,196 Speaker 1: presidential election, Elon Musk, the world's richest man, took to 7 00:00:39,276 --> 00:00:42,276 Speaker 1: the stage at a rally for Donald Trump in New 8 00:00:42,396 --> 00:00:47,676 Speaker 1: York City. He wore black jeans, a black T shirt, 9 00:00:48,036 --> 00:00:51,716 Speaker 1: black blazer, and a black baseball hat. Had red in 10 00:00:51,876 --> 00:00:54,956 Speaker 1: dark gray embroidery Make America great Again. 11 00:00:55,436 --> 00:01:02,436 Speaker 4: I'm not just maga, I'm doc Gothic maga. 12 00:01:03,236 --> 00:01:07,956 Speaker 1: Elon Musk, an American oligarch and entrepreneurial genius, had stood 13 00:01:08,036 --> 00:01:11,596 Speaker 1: on many stages before he sees the podium at Madison 14 00:01:11,676 --> 00:01:17,916 Speaker 1: Square Garden. Ted talks, Tesla product rollouts, SpaceX launch pads. 15 00:01:18,436 --> 00:01:21,396 Speaker 1: He also owns a stage a platform ever since he 16 00:01:21,436 --> 00:01:24,676 Speaker 1: bought Twitter and renamed it x, and he owns a 17 00:01:24,716 --> 00:01:28,916 Speaker 1: sizable portion of the global communications infrastructure through his satellite 18 00:01:28,996 --> 00:01:33,756 Speaker 1: company Starlink. But this Madison Square Garden gig was part 19 00:01:33,796 --> 00:01:38,196 Speaker 1: of a different endeavor. Entirely, Musk spent a staggering amount 20 00:01:38,236 --> 00:01:42,316 Speaker 1: of money to help get Trump and Republicans elected. The 21 00:01:42,356 --> 00:01:45,396 Speaker 1: world's richest man, spent more than a quarter of a 22 00:01:45,516 --> 00:01:49,116 Speaker 1: billion dollars on the return to power of the world's 23 00:01:49,396 --> 00:01:55,756 Speaker 1: most powerful man, like some kind of superman or supervillain. 24 00:01:59,996 --> 00:02:02,956 Speaker 1: Returning to the White House, Trump promised to bring Musk 25 00:02:02,996 --> 00:02:07,116 Speaker 1: with him. You guys are awesome, And once Musk got 26 00:02:07,116 --> 00:02:09,316 Speaker 1: a taste for this kind of thing, he began to 27 00:02:09,396 --> 00:02:13,196 Speaker 1: involve himself in politics of other nations, in Germany, in 28 00:02:13,276 --> 00:02:16,636 Speaker 1: the UK. What does Musk's reinvention of himself as a 29 00:02:16,756 --> 00:02:20,556 Speaker 1: king maker mean for the United States and for the world. 30 00:02:21,076 --> 00:02:23,676 Speaker 1: How long will it last? No one knows what's going 31 00:02:23,756 --> 00:02:29,676 Speaker 1: to happen next, But what happened before in twenty twenty one, 32 00:02:29,956 --> 00:02:33,436 Speaker 1: before Musk joined forces with Trump, before Musk bought Twitter, 33 00:02:34,036 --> 00:02:37,276 Speaker 1: before Musk was in the news every day, He was 34 00:02:37,276 --> 00:02:40,796 Speaker 1: in the news every other day, with headlines that sounded 35 00:02:41,076 --> 00:02:45,556 Speaker 1: ripped from science fiction super fast underground trains, rockets to 36 00:02:45,636 --> 00:02:50,116 Speaker 1: Mars brain control implants. I made a BBC series in 37 00:02:50,156 --> 00:02:52,516 Speaker 1: which I tried to explain Musk by way of the 38 00:02:52,556 --> 00:02:56,316 Speaker 1: science fiction he grew up with, tales of superheroes with 39 00:02:56,396 --> 00:03:00,476 Speaker 1: origin stories that seemed to influence how he understands his 40 00:03:00,556 --> 00:03:04,236 Speaker 1: own life. But so much has happened since then that 41 00:03:04,316 --> 00:03:07,276 Speaker 1: we decided to update that series from four years ago, 42 00:03:07,756 --> 00:03:12,396 Speaker 1: rename it, and add new episodes because Musk keeps changing, 43 00:03:13,356 --> 00:03:25,236 Speaker 1: and so does his origin story. Welcome to X Man, 44 00:03:25,556 --> 00:03:29,676 Speaker 1: The Elon Musk Origin Story. I'm Jill Lapour. I'm a 45 00:03:29,676 --> 00:03:33,276 Speaker 1: professor of history and law at Harvard. I'm interested in 46 00:03:33,316 --> 00:03:36,796 Speaker 1: the past Musk. He's interested in the future. 47 00:03:37,196 --> 00:03:42,436 Speaker 5: The future is gonna be amazing or is he? 48 00:03:42,916 --> 00:03:46,636 Speaker 1: Is Musk really a futurist or is he maybe an 49 00:03:46,716 --> 00:03:50,836 Speaker 1: antique a throwback. I don't mean the retro vibe of 50 00:03:50,916 --> 00:03:55,636 Speaker 1: the amazing extraordinary gadgets, the Tesla cyber trucks and Starlink 51 00:03:55,676 --> 00:04:00,516 Speaker 1: satellites and SpaceX rockets. I mean Musk's ideas about politics 52 00:04:00,556 --> 00:04:06,796 Speaker 1: and economics. I mean Muskism, extravagant extreme capitalism, a political 53 00:04:06,836 --> 00:04:10,196 Speaker 1: economy with origins in the universe of comic books and 54 00:04:10,276 --> 00:04:14,476 Speaker 1: science fiction that has fired Musk's imagination since he was 55 00:04:14,516 --> 00:04:22,596 Speaker 1: a boy. In this series, I'm going to blast off 56 00:04:23,076 --> 00:04:30,476 Speaker 1: not to the future, but to the past. Part of 57 00:04:30,636 --> 00:04:34,916 Speaker 1: Musk's stick is that he's still boyish bit of a lad. 58 00:04:35,396 --> 00:04:41,156 Speaker 1: Plays video games, has smoked pot, watches superhero movies, talks 59 00:04:41,156 --> 00:04:43,236 Speaker 1: about testosterone. 60 00:04:42,636 --> 00:04:43,156 Speaker 3: Word has it. 61 00:04:43,196 --> 00:04:46,836 Speaker 2: Billionaires Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg possibly have now formally 62 00:04:46,876 --> 00:04:48,996 Speaker 2: agreed to a cage match face off. 63 00:04:49,436 --> 00:04:53,596 Speaker 1: He once changed his name on X to Kechius Maximus, 64 00:04:54,076 --> 00:04:56,716 Speaker 1: which is a joke about on the one hand, the 65 00:04:56,796 --> 00:05:00,796 Speaker 1: movie Gladiator and on the other hand, a cartoon frog 66 00:05:01,116 --> 00:05:04,676 Speaker 1: named Pepe. Musk does this kind of thing so often 67 00:05:04,996 --> 00:05:08,796 Speaker 1: people barely even notice it anymore. The tech bro va 68 00:05:09,676 --> 00:05:13,716 Speaker 1: men will be boys, Boys will be gladiators. Trump has 69 00:05:13,716 --> 00:05:17,396 Speaker 1: gotten into this too, tweeting during the campaign a picture 70 00:05:17,436 --> 00:05:20,716 Speaker 1: of himself as Superman with J. D. Vance as his 71 00:05:20,796 --> 00:05:26,236 Speaker 1: Batman and Musk as Cyborg. Why in grown men is 72 00:05:26,316 --> 00:05:30,876 Speaker 1: this kind of thing? Okay, honestly, it's a little bewildering. Anyway, 73 00:05:31,316 --> 00:05:36,396 Speaker 1: the stories Musk likes and the characters he identifies with matter. 74 00:05:37,236 --> 00:05:39,956 Speaker 1: He used to talk a lot about The Hitchhiker's Guide 75 00:05:39,996 --> 00:05:42,836 Speaker 1: to the Galaxy. Then he used to think of himself 76 00:05:42,876 --> 00:05:47,276 Speaker 1: as Tony Stark, a do gooding superhero from the Marvel comics. 77 00:05:48,076 --> 00:05:52,036 Speaker 1: Musk has always loved the Dark Night movies, which are awesome. 78 00:05:52,956 --> 00:05:57,716 Speaker 1: About two years ago, he likened himself to Batman, a brooding, angry, 79 00:05:57,876 --> 00:06:02,916 Speaker 1: fabulously wealthy vigilante. After he bought Twitter, he posted a 80 00:06:03,036 --> 00:06:05,556 Speaker 1: drawing of the dark Night standing on top of a 81 00:06:05,556 --> 00:06:12,916 Speaker 1: Gothic church, watching over Gotham, Musk wrote some nights online, 82 00:06:12,996 --> 00:06:15,316 Speaker 1: a lot of people started arguing about whether or not 83 00:06:15,436 --> 00:06:18,756 Speaker 1: Musk is a real life Bruce Wayne, And then two 84 00:06:18,796 --> 00:06:21,676 Speaker 1: when the cyber truck came out, people said, it looked 85 00:06:21,916 --> 00:06:25,076 Speaker 1: like the batmobile. Is that Batman? 86 00:06:26,476 --> 00:06:28,076 Speaker 6: Unless you're trying to be Batman? 87 00:06:28,956 --> 00:06:33,156 Speaker 1: Why isn't that out of my crown? I happen to 88 00:06:33,196 --> 00:06:36,076 Speaker 1: be pretty interested in Batman. I once wrote a book 89 00:06:36,116 --> 00:06:40,476 Speaker 1: called The Secret History of Wonder Woman. So this episode 90 00:06:40,716 --> 00:06:43,196 Speaker 1: I want to look at the original Batman to see 91 00:06:43,196 --> 00:06:47,396 Speaker 1: what he tells us about Elon Musk. Batman made his 92 00:06:47,476 --> 00:06:51,276 Speaker 1: debut in the nineteen thirties, and fairly soon he was 93 00:06:51,316 --> 00:06:51,916 Speaker 1: on the radio. 94 00:06:52,396 --> 00:06:55,236 Speaker 7: The whole masked figure wearing a bright blue hood and 95 00:06:55,316 --> 00:06:56,796 Speaker 7: cape approaches Listen. 96 00:06:57,836 --> 00:07:00,276 Speaker 1: It turns out that a whole lot of Elon Musk's 97 00:07:00,356 --> 00:07:03,756 Speaker 1: vision for the future, his ideas about politics and governments 98 00:07:03,796 --> 00:07:07,876 Speaker 1: and economics, come from the nineteen thirties, nearly a century ago. 99 00:07:08,636 --> 00:07:11,236 Speaker 1: They're old ideas, and a lot of them I think 100 00:07:11,556 --> 00:07:15,116 Speaker 1: are failed ideas, but they're also bound up with Batman. 101 00:07:15,356 --> 00:07:19,596 Speaker 1: That Dark Knight, a guy dark Maga really likes to 102 00:07:19,636 --> 00:07:20,196 Speaker 1: talk about. 103 00:07:20,836 --> 00:07:23,676 Speaker 4: It's like Dark Knight, like the friggant joker is in charge. 104 00:07:24,036 --> 00:07:27,236 Speaker 4: The criminals run free and the citizens are arrested. 105 00:07:27,556 --> 00:07:31,476 Speaker 1: That's Musk on The Joe Rogan Experience, the most popular 106 00:07:31,516 --> 00:07:35,076 Speaker 1: podcast in the US. They're talking about life and Democrat 107 00:07:35,196 --> 00:07:38,636 Speaker 1: run New York City and complaining about how authorities in 108 00:07:38,676 --> 00:07:43,476 Speaker 1: New York had seized and killed some guy's pet squirrel. 109 00:07:43,996 --> 00:07:46,756 Speaker 4: Still pretty suke about the freaking squirrel thing. It's like, meanwhile, 110 00:07:46,996 --> 00:07:49,076 Speaker 4: you know, violent falons are running free? 111 00:07:49,676 --> 00:07:54,756 Speaker 1: Is a joker, It's the Joker, Batman's arch nemesis, a madman, 112 00:07:55,156 --> 00:08:00,196 Speaker 1: a sadist, an anarchist. It's Mayhem? And who can save 113 00:08:00,396 --> 00:08:08,076 Speaker 1: the people of Gotham? If Elon Musk were Batman, what 114 00:08:08,236 --> 00:08:11,596 Speaker 1: would he intend to answer that question? I want to 115 00:08:11,636 --> 00:08:14,516 Speaker 1: go back to that night at Madison Square Garden, smack 116 00:08:14,596 --> 00:08:17,756 Speaker 1: in the middle of Gotham, nine days before the election. 117 00:08:18,476 --> 00:08:21,636 Speaker 1: The arena was sold out. Twenty thousand seats were filled 118 00:08:21,876 --> 00:08:25,236 Speaker 1: with Trump supporters dressed in red, white and blue, caring 119 00:08:25,276 --> 00:08:29,356 Speaker 1: signs that read Fight, Fight, Fight, and Trump can Fix It. 120 00:08:30,036 --> 00:08:33,436 Speaker 1: They had a lot to celebrate Trump was making the 121 00:08:33,476 --> 00:08:38,276 Speaker 1: most impressive comeback in American political history. Critics had been 122 00:08:38,316 --> 00:08:43,596 Speaker 1: calling Trump a fascist Hulk Hogan, the flamboyant former wrestler, 123 00:08:44,156 --> 00:08:45,236 Speaker 1: had an answer to that. 124 00:08:45,876 --> 00:08:52,636 Speaker 8: This is Donald Trump's house, brother Ilesino staking Nazis in here. 125 00:08:53,356 --> 00:08:58,236 Speaker 1: Musk didn't speak for long. Mainly he rallied Trump's troops. 126 00:08:58,316 --> 00:09:03,236 Speaker 4: USA, USA, USA. 127 00:09:02,556 --> 00:09:05,756 Speaker 1: And then Donald Trump. In a preview of his inauguration 128 00:09:05,956 --> 00:09:10,276 Speaker 1: rally promised to usher in a new golden age. 129 00:09:10,956 --> 00:09:14,876 Speaker 8: I'm here today with a message of hope for all Americans. 130 00:09:15,556 --> 00:09:19,316 Speaker 1: Trump spoke for more than an hour. He mocked journalists, 131 00:09:19,756 --> 00:09:23,556 Speaker 1: talked about fake news, made a promise about immigration. 132 00:09:24,276 --> 00:09:27,916 Speaker 8: On day one, I will launch the largest deportation program 133 00:09:27,996 --> 00:09:29,156 Speaker 8: in American history. 134 00:09:29,276 --> 00:09:32,076 Speaker 3: But to get the criminals out, I. 135 00:09:32,076 --> 00:09:35,236 Speaker 8: Will rescue every city in town that has been invaded. 136 00:09:35,316 --> 00:09:38,276 Speaker 1: In concorde, he denounced in doctrination, we. 137 00:09:38,276 --> 00:09:42,996 Speaker 8: Will get critical race theory and transgender insanity the hell out. 138 00:09:42,796 --> 00:09:43,476 Speaker 9: Of our school. 139 00:09:44,316 --> 00:09:48,116 Speaker 1: And he pledged himself to a policy of isolationism. 140 00:09:48,356 --> 00:09:51,156 Speaker 8: It's called America First. 141 00:09:51,436 --> 00:09:55,836 Speaker 1: When Trump finished, a crooner in a black tux sang Sinatra, 142 00:09:56,516 --> 00:10:08,036 Speaker 1: but it was a big, bold, glamy, star studded night 143 00:10:08,156 --> 00:10:11,156 Speaker 1: in Gotham with a lot of talk about crime, and 144 00:10:11,196 --> 00:10:13,876 Speaker 1: Elon Musk dressed as if he were Batman on a 145 00:10:14,036 --> 00:10:18,436 Speaker 1: casual Friday. But it all reminded me of a very 146 00:10:18,476 --> 00:10:20,596 Speaker 1: different night at Madison Square Garden. 147 00:10:21,756 --> 00:10:27,876 Speaker 10: Ladies and gentlemen, fellow American American patriots. I'm sure I 148 00:10:28,036 --> 00:10:32,356 Speaker 10: do not come before you tonight as a complete strange shot. 149 00:10:33,636 --> 00:10:38,436 Speaker 10: You all have heard of me through a Jewish control press. 150 00:10:39,516 --> 00:10:43,956 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty nine, the German American bund An organization 151 00:10:44,156 --> 00:10:48,036 Speaker 1: of American Nazis held a sold out rally in Madison 152 00:10:48,076 --> 00:10:53,356 Speaker 1: Square Garden. They wore swastikas as armbands, raised their arms 153 00:10:53,356 --> 00:10:56,476 Speaker 1: to Hyle Hitler, and in front of a giant portrait 154 00:10:56,556 --> 00:11:03,116 Speaker 1: of George Washington, celebrated him as America's first fascist. Here's 155 00:11:03,156 --> 00:11:07,596 Speaker 1: Fritz Kuhnn, the bund Feurer, warning about a Jewish conspiracy 156 00:11:07,916 --> 00:11:09,116 Speaker 1: against the United States. 157 00:11:09,316 --> 00:11:15,196 Speaker 2: Unless you Aliens nor the ten Christians wigap and speak 158 00:11:15,236 --> 00:11:18,356 Speaker 2: out to the men that our go women, how be 159 00:11:18,556 --> 00:11:21,316 Speaker 2: returned to the American people who founded it. 160 00:11:21,956 --> 00:11:25,236 Speaker 1: These American Nazis were searching for someone to blame. 161 00:11:25,596 --> 00:11:29,916 Speaker 5: The people far and wide feel that somebody must have 162 00:11:30,156 --> 00:11:31,116 Speaker 5: fallen down. 163 00:11:30,956 --> 00:11:31,516 Speaker 4: On the job. 164 00:11:32,036 --> 00:11:33,956 Speaker 1: They were denouncing the press. 165 00:11:34,276 --> 00:11:36,836 Speaker 5: The whole country now must see that there is no 166 00:11:37,036 --> 00:11:38,556 Speaker 5: free radio for white. 167 00:11:38,356 --> 00:11:41,876 Speaker 1: Men campaigning to cut government spending. 168 00:11:42,036 --> 00:11:46,716 Speaker 5: Who is not familiar with a billion dollar yardstick that 169 00:11:46,876 --> 00:11:51,716 Speaker 5: is required to measure this stupendous total of our national 170 00:11:51,836 --> 00:11:52,596 Speaker 5: public debt. 171 00:11:53,116 --> 00:11:54,876 Speaker 1: They're demonizing immigrants. 172 00:11:55,156 --> 00:11:58,236 Speaker 7: Great bloods of tears were a few hundred thousand job 173 00:11:58,356 --> 00:12:00,716 Speaker 7: taking so called poor Jewish refugees. 174 00:12:02,076 --> 00:12:06,956 Speaker 1: And here's Fritzkun again. They were fighting in doctrination weed 175 00:12:07,796 --> 00:12:08,836 Speaker 1: I see, will. 176 00:12:08,636 --> 00:12:13,876 Speaker 7: Not you when called upon the gate ed will law 177 00:12:13,996 --> 00:12:17,196 Speaker 7: all support in our power in the fire to break 178 00:12:17,316 --> 00:12:20,676 Speaker 7: the trip and the power size ten of Jewish communism 179 00:12:20,836 --> 00:12:24,956 Speaker 7: in our schools, our university is our very homes. 180 00:12:27,556 --> 00:12:30,916 Speaker 1: History often sounds like a broken record, but it would 181 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:33,276 Speaker 1: be easy to make too much of the echoes between 182 00:12:33,316 --> 00:12:38,116 Speaker 1: these two Madison Square Garden rallies, separated by decades, the 183 00:12:38,156 --> 00:12:42,076 Speaker 1: whole calling people Nazis because you disagree with them. I'm 184 00:12:42,116 --> 00:12:44,796 Speaker 1: sick of it, You're sick of it. So let me 185 00:12:44,796 --> 00:12:47,636 Speaker 1: be clear. The nearly eighty million Americans who voted for 186 00:12:47,676 --> 00:12:51,276 Speaker 1: Trump in twenty twenty four were sick of Democrats, unhappy 187 00:12:51,276 --> 00:12:55,996 Speaker 1: about inflation, annoyed by progressive purity crusades and unimpressed by 188 00:12:56,036 --> 00:12:59,476 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, I get at Hull Kogan. I don't see 189 00:12:59,516 --> 00:13:05,716 Speaker 1: no stinking Nazis here. Still. Look, I'm a historian, and 190 00:13:05,796 --> 00:13:10,156 Speaker 1: there is history here. Fascism has a history, and it 191 00:13:10,316 --> 00:13:15,436 Speaker 1: casts a very long shadow. And there's another, very particular 192 00:13:15,476 --> 00:13:18,916 Speaker 1: reason to spend a little time thinking about the year 193 00:13:19,436 --> 00:13:25,916 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine. Right after that Boone rally, maybe even 194 00:13:25,956 --> 00:13:29,196 Speaker 1: the very next day, in an office building just a 195 00:13:29,316 --> 00:13:33,236 Speaker 1: few blocks away, and out of the same political tensions, 196 00:13:33,316 --> 00:13:37,276 Speaker 1: the rise of fascism, the fear of fascism, some guys 197 00:13:37,556 --> 00:13:40,836 Speaker 1: at a little New York comic book publishing house decided 198 00:13:40,876 --> 00:13:44,076 Speaker 1: to create a new superhero Atman. 199 00:13:44,596 --> 00:13:45,396 Speaker 3: What are you doing here? 200 00:13:45,676 --> 00:13:53,116 Speaker 1: I enter the caped crusader. Superman had only just made 201 00:13:53,116 --> 00:13:56,436 Speaker 1: his debut, a wild success. Pretty soon he was on 202 00:13:56,476 --> 00:13:56,956 Speaker 1: the radio. 203 00:13:57,236 --> 00:13:59,276 Speaker 5: I still on a bullet. 204 00:14:00,436 --> 00:14:02,236 Speaker 1: It took the writers a few weeks to come up 205 00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:05,676 Speaker 1: with a new superhero, but he made his debut that 206 00:14:05,836 --> 00:14:10,356 Speaker 1: spring nineteen thirty nine, and now it is my brand. 207 00:14:10,396 --> 00:14:12,156 Speaker 3: Bruce Wayne of a wide. 208 00:14:11,956 --> 00:14:16,916 Speaker 1: Known as the Batman. Superman comes from another planet. Batman's 209 00:14:17,036 --> 00:14:19,636 Speaker 1: just a guy with a cape, but he does have 210 00:14:19,716 --> 00:14:23,036 Speaker 1: a lot of money. Bruce Wayne is a millionaire head 211 00:14:23,076 --> 00:14:27,316 Speaker 1: of Wayne Enterprises. He's also pretty nifty with a pistol, 212 00:14:27,796 --> 00:14:32,556 Speaker 1: which soon became a problem. At the time, the publishers 213 00:14:32,596 --> 00:14:35,036 Speaker 1: of comic books were taking a lot of heat for 214 00:14:35,116 --> 00:14:39,156 Speaker 1: glorifying violence. The month that Batman made his debut, the 215 00:14:39,276 --> 00:14:43,916 Speaker 1: US Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of two new firearms 216 00:14:43,996 --> 00:14:48,836 Speaker 1: laws that, among other things, outlawed machine guns. Then that 217 00:14:48,956 --> 00:14:51,556 Speaker 1: September Hitler advanced. 218 00:14:51,876 --> 00:14:53,676 Speaker 10: Germany has invaded Poland. 219 00:14:54,156 --> 00:14:57,236 Speaker 7: France has decreed general mobilization and martial law. 220 00:14:57,716 --> 00:15:01,836 Speaker 1: Europe was going to war and Americans were sick of guns. 221 00:15:02,556 --> 00:15:05,316 Speaker 1: The publisher of DC Comics told the guy who wrote 222 00:15:05,356 --> 00:15:09,996 Speaker 1: Batman to lay off the guns. Batman on mister Cannon, 223 00:15:10,956 --> 00:15:15,476 Speaker 1: and I'm afraid we'll never see him again. Well, only 224 00:15:15,516 --> 00:15:19,156 Speaker 1: the original Batman was gone, replaced with a new one. 225 00:15:19,316 --> 00:15:22,276 Speaker 1: This Batman hates guns, and you know what, he also 226 00:15:22,356 --> 00:15:27,876 Speaker 1: hates fascists. Right after Germany invaded Poland, Batman got an 227 00:15:27,916 --> 00:15:31,516 Speaker 1: origin story. As a kid, Bruce Wayne had watched his 228 00:15:31,636 --> 00:15:34,756 Speaker 1: parents get gunned down on the streets, and so now 229 00:15:34,796 --> 00:15:38,116 Speaker 1: here he was in nineteen thirty nine fighting an organization 230 00:15:38,196 --> 00:15:43,876 Speaker 1: of American fascists, a thinly disguised American bund known as 231 00:15:43,916 --> 00:15:45,036 Speaker 1: the Scarlet Horde. 232 00:15:45,276 --> 00:15:48,916 Speaker 3: I must stop the Scarlet Hoard before they become dictators 233 00:15:49,036 --> 00:15:49,716 Speaker 3: of the world. 234 00:15:50,196 --> 00:15:52,956 Speaker 1: At the time and over the next few years, critics 235 00:15:52,956 --> 00:15:55,876 Speaker 1: of the comics would argue that they glorified strong men. 236 00:15:56,756 --> 00:16:01,676 Speaker 1: Time Magazine published a story called are Comics Fascist? To 237 00:16:01,676 --> 00:16:05,116 Speaker 1: defeat the argument that comics were too violent? Batman gave 238 00:16:05,196 --> 00:16:08,836 Speaker 1: up his gun. To defeat the argument that comics were fascist. 239 00:16:09,476 --> 00:16:12,876 Speaker 1: Batman took on this new enemy, the Scarlet Horde. 240 00:16:13,396 --> 00:16:17,636 Speaker 6: American nazis Hi Karl Kruger will be dictatle of the world. 241 00:16:18,116 --> 00:16:21,836 Speaker 1: The Scarlet Hords leader is pretty recognizably Fritz Kuhn, the 242 00:16:21,916 --> 00:16:24,636 Speaker 1: leader of the Bund, America's top Nazi. 243 00:16:25,156 --> 00:16:29,876 Speaker 7: Tell me, is our army ready, two thousand strong, waiting 244 00:16:29,996 --> 00:16:31,036 Speaker 7: for your command. 245 00:16:31,836 --> 00:16:39,156 Speaker 1: Batman defeats him, and without a gun, saves Gotham from fascism. 246 00:16:39,476 --> 00:16:42,076 Speaker 1: During the twenty twenty four election, there was a lot 247 00:16:42,116 --> 00:16:44,756 Speaker 1: of talk about fascism in the United States. 248 00:16:44,916 --> 00:16:47,196 Speaker 9: Let me ask you tonight, do you think Donald Trump 249 00:16:47,396 --> 00:16:48,036 Speaker 9: is a fascist? 250 00:16:48,076 --> 00:16:48,236 Speaker 10: Yes? 251 00:16:48,276 --> 00:16:49,676 Speaker 1: I do, Yes, I do. 252 00:16:50,116 --> 00:16:54,956 Speaker 8: Joe is surrounded by fascists surround the ovalas I've said. 253 00:16:54,836 --> 00:16:57,996 Speaker 1: It before, but I'll say it again. Everyone's tired of 254 00:16:58,036 --> 00:17:01,996 Speaker 1: everyone calling everyone else a fascist. But with everything that's 255 00:17:02,036 --> 00:17:05,076 Speaker 1: going on the rise of far right parties across Europe, 256 00:17:05,356 --> 00:17:09,516 Speaker 1: including one in Germany endorsed by Elon Musk, I can't 257 00:17:09,516 --> 00:17:13,476 Speaker 1: not talk about fascism, and Batman's whole origin story is 258 00:17:13,556 --> 00:17:17,716 Speaker 1: bound up with fascism. Every time Musk is compared to Batman, 259 00:17:18,316 --> 00:17:23,316 Speaker 1: it raises an old question, is Batman fighting fascism? Where 260 00:17:23,396 --> 00:17:28,796 Speaker 1: is Batman somehow himself a fascist? That was actually a 261 00:17:28,876 --> 00:17:31,676 Speaker 1: question in the nineteen thirties, and over the last decades 262 00:17:31,716 --> 00:17:34,436 Speaker 1: it's been a question again ever since a trilogy of 263 00:17:34,556 --> 00:17:38,756 Speaker 1: Dark Night films came out, directed by Christopher Nolan, the 264 00:17:38,756 --> 00:17:41,156 Speaker 1: movies that shaped Musk's view of Batman. 265 00:17:41,556 --> 00:17:46,436 Speaker 6: I did think that there is a strong fascist current, 266 00:17:46,796 --> 00:17:50,516 Speaker 6: certainly in the look and mood and the sort of 267 00:17:50,596 --> 00:17:53,836 Speaker 6: just Wagnerian atmosphere of those movies. 268 00:17:54,356 --> 00:17:58,236 Speaker 1: That's Ao Scott, longtime critic from the New York Times, 269 00:17:58,596 --> 00:18:02,796 Speaker 1: talking about those Nolan films from Warner Brothers Pictures, the 270 00:18:03,036 --> 00:18:07,556 Speaker 1: very very dark Dark Night series. It starts with Batman 271 00:18:07,676 --> 00:18:09,796 Speaker 1: begins in two thousand and five. 272 00:18:10,676 --> 00:18:11,996 Speaker 8: What are you? 273 00:18:12,596 --> 00:18:13,356 Speaker 6: I'm Batman? 274 00:18:15,476 --> 00:18:18,876 Speaker 1: Nolan's films brought forward in time the fascist themes and 275 00:18:18,916 --> 00:18:21,956 Speaker 1: concerns of the original nineteen thirties Batman. 276 00:18:22,516 --> 00:18:28,836 Speaker 6: There is a very not entirely coherent, but strongly kind 277 00:18:28,876 --> 00:18:35,716 Speaker 6: of authoritarian political bent, and one that takes some interesting forms. 278 00:18:36,036 --> 00:18:38,356 Speaker 1: A lot of characters in these movies say a version 279 00:18:38,396 --> 00:18:43,116 Speaker 1: of democracy has failed. We need a strong man. Take 280 00:18:43,156 --> 00:18:45,876 Speaker 1: this scene from the two thousand and eight film The 281 00:18:45,996 --> 00:18:46,756 Speaker 1: Dark Night. 282 00:18:46,956 --> 00:18:49,476 Speaker 9: When their enemies were at the gates, the Romans would 283 00:18:49,476 --> 00:18:52,476 Speaker 9: suspend democracy in a point one man to protect the city, 284 00:18:52,716 --> 00:18:54,636 Speaker 9: and it wasn't considered an honor, it was considered a 285 00:18:54,636 --> 00:18:55,396 Speaker 9: public service. 286 00:18:55,636 --> 00:18:55,996 Speaker 6: Harvey. 287 00:18:56,116 --> 00:18:58,716 Speaker 1: The last man that they appointed to protect the republic 288 00:18:58,756 --> 00:19:01,356 Speaker 1: was named Caesar, and he never gave up his power. 289 00:19:01,596 --> 00:19:05,516 Speaker 9: Okay, fine, you either die a hero or you live 290 00:19:05,636 --> 00:19:07,236 Speaker 9: long enough to see yourself become the villain. 291 00:19:08,076 --> 00:19:10,316 Speaker 6: The people need a he. The people need here that 292 00:19:10,356 --> 00:19:12,756 Speaker 6: the people can't take care of themselves. That in a way, 293 00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:16,676 Speaker 6: the sort of the democratic institutions that might have met 294 00:19:16,716 --> 00:19:20,556 Speaker 6: the people's needs and kept them safe have failed, and 295 00:19:20,756 --> 00:19:24,076 Speaker 6: what they need is a strong figure from outside of 296 00:19:24,076 --> 00:19:27,196 Speaker 6: the political system. There's no sense of any kind of 297 00:19:27,236 --> 00:19:30,116 Speaker 6: democratic participation in the Batman world. 298 00:19:30,196 --> 00:19:32,396 Speaker 1: Oh my god, No, they're all dupes. Everybody's a dupe. 299 00:19:32,396 --> 00:19:36,396 Speaker 1: Every Gothamite is a dupe, right Aoscott has a theory that, 300 00:19:36,516 --> 00:19:40,916 Speaker 1: unlike the Dark Knight films, the Marvel Universe films, Iron Man, 301 00:19:41,156 --> 00:19:45,596 Speaker 1: Captain America, ant Man, the Avengers, a team of do gooders, 302 00:19:46,356 --> 00:19:49,956 Speaker 1: these films represent an Obama Biden view of the world. 303 00:19:50,036 --> 00:19:53,716 Speaker 6: He says, It's just like this kind of weird global 304 00:19:53,836 --> 00:19:57,916 Speaker 6: committee of superheroes who are going to go around solving problems, 305 00:19:58,396 --> 00:20:02,556 Speaker 6: who put their own kind of personal feelings and motives 306 00:20:02,596 --> 00:20:06,276 Speaker 6: and vendettas aside to kind of to work for the 307 00:20:06,316 --> 00:20:08,916 Speaker 6: common good in a way that like a committee of 308 00:20:08,956 --> 00:20:13,196 Speaker 6: the in Brussels might try to solve supply chain issues. 309 00:20:13,516 --> 00:20:17,236 Speaker 6: That's a bureaucratic, technocratic idea of heroism. 310 00:20:17,596 --> 00:20:20,756 Speaker 1: But the Dark Knight films, which come not from Marvel 311 00:20:20,956 --> 00:20:25,516 Speaker 1: but from DC, those movies are about the failure of 312 00:20:25,596 --> 00:20:30,156 Speaker 1: Obama Biden politics, the failure of the liberal democratic state, 313 00:20:30,556 --> 00:20:34,836 Speaker 1: the failure of liberalism itself. And this is true most 314 00:20:34,876 --> 00:20:36,596 Speaker 1: of all of Batman. 315 00:20:37,316 --> 00:20:43,836 Speaker 6: His own personal story, his own kind of grievance and grief, 316 00:20:44,236 --> 00:20:48,356 Speaker 6: gets mapped on to the political situation and becomes kind 317 00:20:48,396 --> 00:20:51,676 Speaker 6: of evidence of just the rottenness and untenability and corruption. 318 00:20:51,796 --> 00:20:57,316 Speaker 6: So he doesn't assume power, but he represents a non democratic, 319 00:20:57,396 --> 00:21:01,196 Speaker 6: non state, extra legal, extra judicial form of power. 320 00:21:01,556 --> 00:21:09,316 Speaker 1: Nolan's Gotham is how the right understands San Francisco, Go 321 00:21:09,436 --> 00:21:14,716 Speaker 1: or Portlands seeah, Right, it's always a nighttime in Gotham, 322 00:21:15,076 --> 00:21:21,956 Speaker 1: people marching to their doom, being beaten up on the streets, homeless, bedraggled. 323 00:21:23,116 --> 00:21:26,556 Speaker 1: Because in all of the DC movies, right, Gotham is America. 324 00:21:26,716 --> 00:21:29,516 Speaker 6: Right, there's predators and prey, and then there are some 325 00:21:29,556 --> 00:21:33,236 Speaker 6: people who might, for their own reasons or motives, you know, 326 00:21:33,516 --> 00:21:36,596 Speaker 6: protect some of the prey from the from the predators. 327 00:21:37,356 --> 00:21:41,636 Speaker 6: But there is strength and there is power, and to 328 00:21:41,716 --> 00:21:45,076 Speaker 6: be a hero, to be kind of righteous, is to 329 00:21:45,236 --> 00:21:47,316 Speaker 6: understand that and to be able to use it. 330 00:21:47,596 --> 00:21:50,596 Speaker 1: For Scott, this view is maybe Musk's view of Twitter, 331 00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:53,036 Speaker 1: of politics of everything. 332 00:21:53,596 --> 00:21:56,676 Speaker 6: So you know, you could see like getting rid of 333 00:21:57,316 --> 00:22:00,036 Speaker 6: content moderate sort of opening up Twitter to what he 334 00:22:00,156 --> 00:22:02,956 Speaker 6: likes to call free speech, is a way of saying, look, 335 00:22:03,156 --> 00:22:06,436 Speaker 6: you know, stop kidding yourself that people are going to 336 00:22:06,476 --> 00:22:09,596 Speaker 6: come here and be nice and behave themselves. Nobody does that. 337 00:22:09,836 --> 00:22:12,756 Speaker 6: Nobody believes that we'd be better off if we got 338 00:22:12,916 --> 00:22:14,756 Speaker 6: rid of the idea that people. 339 00:22:14,596 --> 00:22:18,156 Speaker 1: Would Batman might have given up guns. 340 00:22:18,196 --> 00:22:19,436 Speaker 10: No guns, no killing. 341 00:22:19,476 --> 00:22:24,396 Speaker 1: Where's the fun in that? But deranged Dark Knight fans 342 00:22:24,556 --> 00:22:28,676 Speaker 1: have used guns, and they have killed. In twenty twelve, 343 00:22:28,876 --> 00:22:31,996 Speaker 1: a twenty four year old PhD student named James Holmes 344 00:22:32,316 --> 00:22:34,516 Speaker 1: went to a showing of a Batman movie at a 345 00:22:34,556 --> 00:22:36,356 Speaker 1: theater in Colorado. 346 00:22:36,196 --> 00:22:38,996 Speaker 3: As though re enacting a scene from a Dark Knight comic. 347 00:22:39,276 --> 00:22:43,076 Speaker 3: Witnesses say Holmes fired into the air and then started 348 00:22:43,076 --> 00:22:44,236 Speaker 3: shooting into the crowd. 349 00:22:44,356 --> 00:22:48,716 Speaker 1: He killed twelve people. At his apartment, police found more 350 00:22:48,756 --> 00:22:51,276 Speaker 1: guns and Batman masks. 351 00:22:51,716 --> 00:22:56,956 Speaker 3: Holmes immediately surrendered. Police observed his hair was dyed orange. 352 00:22:57,156 --> 00:22:59,556 Speaker 3: He told them I am the joker. 353 00:23:00,196 --> 00:23:02,996 Speaker 1: The Dark Knight might not have guns. But in twenty 354 00:23:03,036 --> 00:23:08,236 Speaker 1: twenty four, campaigning for Donald Trump, Elon Musk Dark Maga 355 00:23:08,476 --> 00:23:11,436 Speaker 1: became an advocate for an armed citizenry. 356 00:23:11,676 --> 00:23:14,156 Speaker 4: The other side wants to take away your freedom of speech. 357 00:23:15,196 --> 00:23:17,236 Speaker 4: They want to take away your right to bear arms. 358 00:23:17,596 --> 00:23:21,636 Speaker 1: He'd begun defending the Second Amendment of the US Constitution. 359 00:23:21,916 --> 00:23:27,316 Speaker 4: Free speech is the bedrock of democracy. That's why it's 360 00:23:27,356 --> 00:23:32,916 Speaker 4: the first Amendment and the second Amendment is there to 361 00:23:33,036 --> 00:23:36,636 Speaker 4: ensure that we have the First Amendment Free speech. 362 00:23:37,076 --> 00:23:41,236 Speaker 1: Musk seem to be saying must be defended if necessary 363 00:23:41,516 --> 00:23:46,716 Speaker 1: by force. Some people think of Elon Musk as a superhero. 364 00:23:47,556 --> 00:23:50,636 Speaker 1: Some people think of him as a super villain trying 365 00:23:50,676 --> 00:23:53,756 Speaker 1: to take over the whole planet with a style that 366 00:23:53,916 --> 00:23:55,236 Speaker 1: comes from the movies. 367 00:23:55,716 --> 00:23:58,116 Speaker 6: You can have ambition without limits, and you can do 368 00:23:58,196 --> 00:24:01,316 Speaker 6: whatever you want. There's a kind of freedom and glee, 369 00:24:01,356 --> 00:24:04,156 Speaker 6: and like, I'll say anything to anyone, I'll do anything. 370 00:24:04,236 --> 00:24:06,636 Speaker 6: I'll say, you know, we're going to invade Greenland. I'm 371 00:24:06,676 --> 00:24:10,396 Speaker 6: gonna mess with everybody's elections. Just this is the behavior 372 00:24:10,436 --> 00:24:12,156 Speaker 6: that we've seen before in movies. 373 00:24:12,396 --> 00:24:16,156 Speaker 1: Aoscott has another theory, a theory about how, in both 374 00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:19,716 Speaker 1: the movies and in American politics, a lot of people 375 00:24:19,716 --> 00:24:23,956 Speaker 1: have started rooting for politicians of all political stripes who 376 00:24:23,956 --> 00:24:27,876 Speaker 1: seemed to style themselves as the bad guys. You wrote 377 00:24:27,916 --> 00:24:31,116 Speaker 1: this long piece called the Supervillain is the Hero Now 378 00:24:31,196 --> 00:24:34,436 Speaker 1: and it had a tagline how Americans learned to root 379 00:24:34,476 --> 00:24:37,196 Speaker 1: for the dark side from the Joker and Wicked to 380 00:24:37,276 --> 00:24:40,036 Speaker 1: Elon Musk. So how did they? 381 00:24:40,756 --> 00:24:42,716 Speaker 6: I mean, the way the piece came about was sort 382 00:24:42,716 --> 00:24:46,916 Speaker 6: of just noticing that something had shifted, and Musk was 383 00:24:46,956 --> 00:24:50,596 Speaker 6: an important case study that he and Trump, the way 384 00:24:50,636 --> 00:24:55,996 Speaker 6: that they were acting, the sort of transgressive, aggressive energy 385 00:24:56,076 --> 00:24:58,796 Speaker 6: that they were projecting and that their followers seemed to love, 386 00:24:59,436 --> 00:25:02,636 Speaker 6: seemed like a supervillain vibe. You could say, and I 387 00:25:02,676 --> 00:25:05,556 Speaker 6: didn't mean that people who don't like them think of 388 00:25:05,596 --> 00:25:08,076 Speaker 6: them as supervillains, you know, because they're so bad, but 389 00:25:08,196 --> 00:25:11,276 Speaker 6: rather that the people who do like them are kind 390 00:25:11,356 --> 00:25:15,556 Speaker 6: of intrigued and seduced and excited by the villainy. 391 00:25:15,596 --> 00:25:18,996 Speaker 1: This is the logic of the Dark Night movies. Batman 392 00:25:19,236 --> 00:25:21,996 Speaker 1: is the bad man, but you should root for him. 393 00:25:22,276 --> 00:25:27,796 Speaker 1: Don't trust the state, liberalism democracy. You need Batman, the 394 00:25:27,836 --> 00:25:32,236 Speaker 1: brooding vigilante and his batmobile, a character who's so unhinged 395 00:25:32,276 --> 00:25:36,316 Speaker 1: and tormented that he essentially collapses into his arch nemesis, 396 00:25:36,436 --> 00:25:40,596 Speaker 1: the Joker. Late last year, a delusional version of this 397 00:25:40,676 --> 00:25:44,556 Speaker 1: plot took form in the mind of a decorated American serviceman. 398 00:25:45,316 --> 00:25:48,716 Speaker 1: He rented a Tesla cyber truck and texted his girlfriend 399 00:25:49,036 --> 00:25:53,236 Speaker 1: that driving it made him feel like Batman. He parked 400 00:25:53,236 --> 00:25:55,836 Speaker 1: it in front of the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas 401 00:25:56,276 --> 00:25:59,436 Speaker 1: and shot himself in the head. Just before a bomb 402 00:25:59,436 --> 00:26:03,956 Speaker 1: that he'd planted blew up. He loved a note saying 403 00:26:04,036 --> 00:26:11,716 Speaker 1: only Trump and Musk can save America. After the election, 404 00:26:12,076 --> 00:26:15,996 Speaker 1: in his victory speech, Trump called his comeback the greatest 405 00:26:16,076 --> 00:26:20,756 Speaker 1: political movement of all time. He credited Musk. 406 00:26:21,356 --> 00:26:22,916 Speaker 3: Let me tell you, we have a new star. 407 00:26:23,756 --> 00:26:25,756 Speaker 1: Trump had a lot of people to think, but the 408 00:26:25,756 --> 00:26:29,716 Speaker 1: person he talked about the longest was his own personal Batman. 409 00:26:29,996 --> 00:26:31,476 Speaker 3: The star is born Elan. 410 00:26:32,316 --> 00:26:35,076 Speaker 1: Trump told the story of watching a SpaceX rocket land 411 00:26:35,476 --> 00:26:39,636 Speaker 1: an amazing feat of engineering. Said he'd called Musk afterward. 412 00:26:40,076 --> 00:26:41,876 Speaker 3: I said, that's why I love you, Elon. 413 00:26:42,036 --> 00:26:44,956 Speaker 1: That's grab He talked about calling On Musk the way 414 00:26:45,036 --> 00:26:48,036 Speaker 1: Gotham's police commissioner uses the bat signal. 415 00:26:48,276 --> 00:26:53,676 Speaker 8: I said, Elon, you have something called starlink? Is that right? 416 00:26:54,396 --> 00:26:57,036 Speaker 3: He had that there so fast, it was incredible. 417 00:26:57,316 --> 00:27:00,396 Speaker 8: What is the characters especial guy as a super genius, 418 00:27:00,396 --> 00:27:00,876 Speaker 8: we have to. 419 00:27:00,836 --> 00:27:05,516 Speaker 1: Bring Elon Musk, the Dark Knight, head of Wayne enterprises 420 00:27:05,996 --> 00:27:10,076 Speaker 1: a super intelligence and quite possibly the only person on 421 00:27:10,156 --> 00:27:14,076 Speaker 1: the planet more powerful than the President of the United States. 422 00:27:18,316 --> 00:27:21,996 Speaker 1: Batman is the creation of a world that witnessed the 423 00:27:22,076 --> 00:27:25,836 Speaker 1: rise of fascism. The way I read it and you 424 00:27:25,876 --> 00:27:30,916 Speaker 1: can read it differently. Whatever Batman intends, he can't ever 425 00:27:30,996 --> 00:27:36,196 Speaker 1: really save Gotham because as a vigilante, Batman is part 426 00:27:36,196 --> 00:27:42,876 Speaker 1: of what went wrong with Gotham. But Batman's only one 427 00:27:42,916 --> 00:27:47,356 Speaker 1: of Muskism's touchstones. What came before the Dark Knight and 428 00:27:47,396 --> 00:27:51,316 Speaker 1: the rise of Dark Maga. To answer that question, we've 429 00:27:51,316 --> 00:27:54,716 Speaker 1: got to go back to the beginning of Elon Musk's life, when, 430 00:27:55,116 --> 00:27:58,756 Speaker 1: as a boy in South Africa under apartheid, he read 431 00:27:58,916 --> 00:28:03,036 Speaker 1: The Hitchaker's Guide to the Galaxy had discovered an origin story. 432 00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:05,876 Speaker 1: That's the next time on x Man