Speaker 1: When we first met, we were like very attractive to
Speaker 1: each other. It was it was our chemistry was great.
Speaker 1: But that level of attraction is more like infatuations at
Speaker 1: the beginning of a relationship, and love, when it is
Speaker 1: able to stand the test of time, it has to
Speaker 1: be deeper and more like a more real than that. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and
Speaker 1: wellness podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every
Speaker 1: single one of you that join every week to listen, learn,
Speaker 1: and grow. And I am so excited to be talking
Speaker 1: to you today. I can't believe it. My new book
Speaker 1: Eight Rules of Love is out and I cannot wait
Speaker 1: to share it with you. I am so so excited
Speaker 1: for you to read this book, for you to listen
Speaker 1: to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't
Speaker 1: got it already, make sure you go to eight Rules
Speaker 1: of Love dot com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying
Speaker 1: to find, keep, or let go of love. So if
Speaker 1: you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling
Speaker 1: with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd
Speaker 1: love to invite you to come and see me for
Speaker 1: my global tour. Love Rules Go to Jay shettytour dot
Speaker 1: com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see you this year. Now. I
Speaker 1: know you're here because you're fascinated as I am about creators, stories,
Speaker 1: people's backgrounds, walks of life, choices, they made decisions that
Speaker 1: change the trajectory of their journey, because you're trying to
Speaker 1: make the same in your life. And today's guest is
Speaker 1: someone that I had down as one of the names
Speaker 1: when I first started the show four years ago, nearly
Speaker 1: four years ago, and it was one of those people
Speaker 1: that I want to speak to you because I was
Speaker 1: a fan of his music for a long time, his journey,
Speaker 1: and I'm grateful that today we actually get to do
Speaker 1: this in person in my studio at home in LA
Speaker 1: And so I'm speaking about none other the one and
Speaker 1: only John Legend, who's garnered twelve Grammy Awards, an Academy Award,
Speaker 1: a Golden Globe Award, a Tony Award, and an Emmy Award,
Speaker 1: making him the first black man to earn an egot.
Speaker 1: During the course of John's career, he has released seven
Speaker 1: celebrated albums. His eighth studio album, Legend, which was released
Speaker 1: on September ninth, is out right now. I've been listening
Speaker 1: to it. It's beautiful. I can't wait for you to
Speaker 1: listen to if you haven't already. John recently began the
Speaker 1: second leg of his critically acclaimed Las Vegas residency, entitled
Speaker 1: Love in Las Vegas, which runs through October. So make
Speaker 1: sure you check that out. And I'm really excited because
Speaker 1: his master Class on Songwriting has just released, And if
Speaker 1: you don't already have a master Class subscription, make sure
Speaker 1: you grab one. I first got one when Bob Iger
Speaker 1: had his master class. That's what took me to the platform,
Speaker 1: and now John Legend has his own on songwriting. Sir John,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Great to see you, Great to
Speaker 1: meet you. Yeah, I'm excited for our conversation. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1: I usually know people that are on the show, and
Speaker 1: I was like, this is we've never met. Yeah, we've
Speaker 1: never crossed paths, you know, and so it's always nice
Speaker 1: to I feel like this is the best way to
Speaker 1: get to know someone deeply and intimately do a podcast
Speaker 1: with them. When else would you have a situation when
Speaker 1: you meet someone and you have over an hour to
Speaker 1: talk to them and learn about them. Yeah, when was
Speaker 1: the last time you did that? Is that? When was
Speaker 1: the last time you sat down with I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know that I ever happened. Yeah, it's it's a
Speaker 1: blessing and it's it truly is. But I mean, I
Speaker 1: remember being a kid in London. I remember when we
Speaker 1: first heard your music and we're like, who is this person?
Speaker 1: At the time, I was listening to R and B
Speaker 1: and hip hop and rap, and then it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is very different, Like this isn't you know? It's
Speaker 1: hard to kind of pin it down into one of
Speaker 1: those genres. But I want to dive into your journey
Speaker 1: today as well a little bit, and I want to
Speaker 1: start with you being homeschooled. Yeah. When I when I
Speaker 1: was researching and reading, I was like, wow, I had
Speaker 1: no idea. Yeah. I was homeschooled by my parents, particularly
Speaker 1: my mother. We grew up in a very Christian home.
Speaker 1: My parents sent us to a Christian school for a
Speaker 1: couple of years. But it was a little expensive for
Speaker 1: them to send us to private school, but they still
Speaker 1: wanted us to have a very kind of Christian education.
Speaker 1: They decided that instead of sending us to this Christian school,
Speaker 1: They would basically take the curriculum from the school, use
Speaker 1: the books from the school, and the school had this
Speaker 1: homeschool liaison as well because a lot of Evangelical Christian
Speaker 1: parents like to use this method. We would work with
Speaker 1: the school, but my mom was our main teacher, and
Speaker 1: we were home a lot with her. We had, you know,
Speaker 1: friends in the neighborhood, relatives in the neighborhood, but yeah,
Speaker 1: we were with our parents and at the house quite
Speaker 1: a bit when most of our friends were going to
Speaker 1: public school and being around a bunch of other kids.
Speaker 1: Once your strongest memory from that time or something that
Speaker 1: you took away that has kind of stayed with you,
Speaker 1: because I find that homeschooling still a fairly small population,
Speaker 1: when yeah, it's very big in the Evangelical Christian community.
Speaker 1: What I remember from it, You know, I was very precocious,
Speaker 1: so I love to read. I loved to independently do whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, I would just want to advance past whatever
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be doing at the time. I
Speaker 1: was obsessed with like encyclopedias and dictionaries. I ended up
Speaker 1: winning the City spelling be during that time. So I
Speaker 1: was very precocious, wanted to learn everything. My mom had
Speaker 1: a typing textbook and I just decided I was going
Speaker 1: to learn how to type. I was taking piano lessons
Speaker 1: during this time, too, so I just wanted to learn
Speaker 1: everything and know how to do everything. What's something that
Speaker 1: you've been trying to learn more recently or where that
Speaker 1: mindset's kind of like carried through Well, I don't what
Speaker 1: would you like to if if you had the time.
Speaker 1: I should do more masterclasses. I should be a consumer
Speaker 1: more masterclasses, But yeah, I haven't done that recently. I
Speaker 1: do like to read a lot, and I'd like to
Speaker 1: just read about how the world works. I'd like to
Speaker 1: read about policy, and I'm very interested in, you know,
Speaker 1: how to craft a better society that's more loving and
Speaker 1: more generous and more just and more equitable for more people.
Speaker 1: And so I like to read books that kind of
Speaker 1: discuss some of these policy ideas and ways of thinking
Speaker 1: about the world. Yeah. No, that's beautiful, and it's true,
Speaker 1: like I feel like we all get so busy that
Speaker 1: it's hard to find time to keep learning. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I haven't recently taken up anything where I'm like,
Speaker 1: I want to learn how to do this that I
Speaker 1: don't know how to do. I try to do it
Speaker 1: with guitar for a while, and then I just got
Speaker 1: so busy that I never like stuck with it. And
Speaker 1: I haven't had something like that recently that I've done.
Speaker 1: Maybe I should learn another language. Yeah, my friend did
Speaker 1: some DUELINGO no I worte for her. No, I'm with
Speaker 1: you too. I feel like, but it's fun looking back
Speaker 1: at like what was that in childhood that we loved
Speaker 1: and kind of reconnect it being good? You know, now
Speaker 1: that you brought it up, I'm like, why haven't I,
Speaker 1: you know, picked something I want to learn about. I
Speaker 1: always thought about should I go back to college and
Speaker 1: like take classes and just just randomly take classes where
Speaker 1: there's no pressure to get good grades, but just you
Speaker 1: want to learn something. Yeah, that'd be fun. Well that's
Speaker 1: a beautiful point that as an adult you actually get
Speaker 1: to go and learn something without the pressure of it
Speaker 1: to grades. Like my mom she's going to college right now.
Speaker 1: She never graduated and she decided she would just go.
Speaker 1: And you know, she's like almost seventy years old. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: What is what's her experience been? Like? She loves it,
Speaker 1: she really enjoys it. I think it's very like stimulating
Speaker 1: for her, and you know, she doesn't work, so it's
Speaker 1: like something to occupy her mind and to stimulate her mind,
Speaker 1: and she really is learning new things. That's amazing. So
Speaker 1: you went from being homeschooled to then being like and
Speaker 1: obviously there's many years in between, but being homecoming king, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's like yeah, prom king pro gig. Sorry, we
Speaker 1: don't have problems in London. So you know where I
Speaker 1: grew up, So yes, I always missed that. I would
Speaker 1: watch Hollywood movies and I'd be like, why don't we
Speaker 1: get to have prom? Yeah, And so we never did that.
Speaker 1: But what was that experience like if then moving from
Speaker 1: like this very specific homeschooled culture, religious culture, institutional culture,
Speaker 1: and then transitioning like, talk to me a bit about
Speaker 1: that transition as a young adult or as a child.
Speaker 1: It was interesting because at the time, the impetus for
Speaker 1: us transitioning into public school was our parents getting divorced,
Speaker 1: and that the empatus for that really was it began
Speaker 1: with my grandmother dying. So my grandmother was very important
Speaker 1: in our lives. She was very important in my mother's life,
Speaker 1: and they made music together. They ran the church choir
Speaker 1: together and were very close, and when she died, it
Speaker 1: really sent my mom into a spiral mental health wise,
Speaker 1: and she ended up abusing drugs and just really becoming
Speaker 1: distant from our family for a while. During that period
Speaker 1: my parents got divorced, our world was being shaken in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. And one of the ways it
Speaker 1: was being shaken it was We're like, oh, now we're
Speaker 1: going to public school after you know, an entire you know,
Speaker 1: ten years in my life where I didn't spend any
Speaker 1: time in public school, and you know, it was quite
Speaker 1: an adjustment coming from homeschool. And I also, because I
Speaker 1: was so precocious, I ended up being skipped two grades
Speaker 1: ahead because I tested out of the grades I was
Speaker 1: supposed to be in, And so I ended up starting
Speaker 1: eighth grade at the age of a sixth grader, and
Speaker 1: starting high school at the age of twelve, and graduating
Speaker 1: at the age of sixteen. So all of it was
Speaker 1: a bit you know, difficult, you know, socially adjusting, adjusting
Speaker 1: to my parents being divorced, adjusting to being in a
Speaker 1: public school setting when I had never been in one before.
Speaker 1: There were a lot of adjustments to make. That's why
Speaker 1: I'm always, you know, wary of the idea of homeschooling
Speaker 1: kids because the social development just isn't really there. But
Speaker 1: I figured it out. So I think music was always
Speaker 1: my way of helping me find ways to connect to people,
Speaker 1: because even though I was too shy to really strike
Speaker 1: up a conversation in person, I wasn't too shy to
Speaker 1: get up on stage. And once I got up on stage,
Speaker 1: it was my way of introducing myself to people. It
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, this is me, this is who I am,
Speaker 1: and I didn't have to break the ice with people
Speaker 1: because my music was my way of breaking the ice.
Speaker 1: It was like my social crutch, I would say at
Speaker 1: the time. It enabled me to make friends, enabled me
Speaker 1: to feel like some control over what I was doing.
Speaker 1: And I think when you feel like you have something
Speaker 1: you're really good at, it makes you feel a bit
Speaker 1: more empowered to do other things and to connect with
Speaker 1: other people, and to feel like you can take up
Speaker 1: space because you feel like, oh, I have something that
Speaker 1: I've shown everyone that I'm really good at. I think
Speaker 1: that is such a great point and I completely agree
Speaker 1: with you. I was a really shy kid growing up
Speaker 1: and massively interested and still am to this day in
Speaker 1: many circles. But my parents forced me to go to
Speaker 1: public speaking drama school, and so I would go for
Speaker 1: three hours a day, three days a week, so nine
Speaker 1: hours a week all year around. It's a lot of time.
Speaker 1: And as I improved in both those areas of my life,
Speaker 1: that's where I would feel at home. And now I
Speaker 1: started to have more confidence in different circles, and you
Speaker 1: could move that around. And I was speaking to my
Speaker 1: friend recently, one of my closest friends. His son's like
Speaker 1: ten years old, and he was saying that he's struggling
Speaker 1: with confidence, and I said, exactly what you just said.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, have you helped him get good
Speaker 1: at something? I was like, you know, what is he
Speaker 1: interested in? What's he naturally gravitating towards that he could
Speaker 1: be encouraged in further because that would empower him, as
Speaker 1: you said, And I think that's such a beautiful thing,
Speaker 1: because we don't know what to validate ourselves through whom
Speaker 1: we're kids. But hearing you reflect back couldn't make sense.
Speaker 1: But I'm guessing at that time there was a lot
Speaker 1: of stress. I mean, being a young kid whose parents
Speaker 1: are divorcing, like like you said, like your mother's also
Speaker 1: experiencing mental health and drug abuse. Like, how were you
Speaker 1: making sense of that? Like? What helped you? It was
Speaker 1: hard to make sense of it, and I parted my
Speaker 1: way of dealing with what was going on with my
Speaker 1: mother was to try to ignore it, honestly, and so
Speaker 1: I would pour myself into school, pour myself into music,
Speaker 1: pour myself into these things that kept me busy, so
Speaker 1: I didn't think about everything was happening in my family.
Speaker 1: And my dad did a great job of, you know,
Speaker 1: helping us, guiding us through it. We had a lot
Speaker 1: of extended family in our community, cousins, aunt's, uncles who
Speaker 1: helped fill in the gaps as well. And then we
Speaker 1: had people at school. I had a guidance counselor who
Speaker 1: he was one of the only black men that worked
Speaker 1: at my school, and he really like decided to take
Speaker 1: me and my older brother under his wing and just
Speaker 1: was really helpful and just figuring out school, figuring out
Speaker 1: how to get into college, all these other things that
Speaker 1: my parents didn't really know how to help us with.
Speaker 1: We just were fortunate to have other people fill in
Speaker 1: the gap. You know, they say it takes a village
Speaker 1: to raise a child. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: times when your parents aren't able to give you everything
Speaker 1: that you need, it's good to have other people in
Speaker 1: your life that can do it. Yeah, especially especially now,
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like there's so I'm not
Speaker 1: a parent yet, and of course you are, but it's
Speaker 1: like there's so much pressure on two people to be everything, yeah,
Speaker 1: to these new human beings, and what you realize is
Speaker 1: that you know, you don't have to be everything. It's
Speaker 1: great to have other people around you a village or community.
Speaker 1: That's one of the things that was so difficult about
Speaker 1: the pandemic was that feeling that you didn't have that,
Speaker 1: you know, community support that most people normally have, that
Speaker 1: feeling of being disconnected and set rating from a lot
Speaker 1: of people, despite all the technological ways that you can
Speaker 1: get in touch with them. It's nice to be in
Speaker 1: presence with people, and I think when people didn't have that.
Speaker 1: We're seeing the results of it with a lot of
Speaker 1: kids learning loss and falling behind in school. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things that you just can't do remotely
Speaker 1: that you need that community support to do. Yeah. No, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I want I want to give a shout out to
Speaker 1: our community for staying with us through the pandemic because
Speaker 1: for me, sitting with someone like this face to face,
Speaker 1: even for an interview, it's like the connection that you
Speaker 1: have with someone as opposed to through a screen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just incomparable. It's different, and we made the most
Speaker 1: of what we had to do during that time, but
Speaker 1: clearly it's preferable to be in person. And I think
Speaker 1: particularly for kids as they're trying to learn, they need them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: did you have to? You said? Then? I think you're
Speaker 1: so right. Like as kids, we ignore stuff like that,
Speaker 1: We try and avoid it. We try, and you know,
Speaker 1: we have to. And I loved where you said you
Speaker 1: poured yourself into you music and hold yourself into school.
Speaker 1: And that's why outlets, artistic outlets are so fantastic to
Speaker 1: have as young people. Did you ever have to revisit it?
Speaker 1: Did you feel like it naturally just improved, there were changes,
Speaker 1: or did you ever have to revisit that as an
Speaker 1: adult to be like I, did you ever feel the
Speaker 1: need for any healing or did you feel that just
Speaker 1: naturally kind of came to a question. So we needed
Speaker 1: to heal. We needed to forgive our mother because we
Speaker 1: felt abandoned by her. Well, she eventually got sober, came
Speaker 1: back to her family, she healed in a lot of
Speaker 1: ways as well, and you know, recovered in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. And we still had to deal with forgiving
Speaker 1: her though, because I think when you feel let down
Speaker 1: by your parents, part of what you need to do
Speaker 1: for your own growth is figure out how to forgive
Speaker 1: them and how to love them and not be held
Speaker 1: back by whatever resentment or anger disappointment you might feel,
Speaker 1: because if you continue to hold on to it, it
Speaker 1: actually hinders you as much or more than it hinders
Speaker 1: anyone else. The person that may be the object of
Speaker 1: your forgiveness, that's great to forgive them, but it's just
Speaker 1: as important for you because that's the best way for
Speaker 1: you to go on and live the best life that
Speaker 1: you can live, is to get that weight off of
Speaker 1: your shoulder that you're holding on too. Did you know
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Speaker 1: hardest doing that with our parents because when we're young,
Speaker 1: you kind of see them as the person who is
Speaker 1: meant to be the caregiver and the sit think the
Speaker 1: letdown is bigger romatic. Yeah, it's dramatic because you expect
Speaker 1: them to, you know, they're supposed to have all the answers,
Speaker 1: they're supposed to do the right things, they're supposed to
Speaker 1: show you the way to do it. And then when
Speaker 1: they when we realize they're not infallible, and then they
Speaker 1: fall from grace in our eyes, I think the disappointment
Speaker 1: is even greater. Yeah, but I love that point you're
Speaker 1: making that there's there's two sides, and you got to
Speaker 1: experience the beauty of your mother's growth and transformation and change.
Speaker 1: But it's like that person's like I'm back, yeah, and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh okay, you don't know, like you've gotten
Speaker 1: used to dealing with not being with them and not
Speaker 1: having them in your life. And my parents got remarried
Speaker 1: during this time and that was weird. Um, So it
Speaker 1: was like a lot of dealing with all those feelings,
Speaker 1: dealing with forgiveness, wondering how to adjust to having that
Speaker 1: person back in your life, all of that. It was
Speaker 1: It was very interesting. Yeah, mine was kind of the
Speaker 1: the opposite, where like I was encouraging my parents as
Speaker 1: a ten year old to get a divorce. So I
Speaker 1: was seeing and experiencing, and they would both tell me
Speaker 1: about what was going on. I'd be like, I think
Speaker 1: you guys should separate because I want you both to
Speaker 1: be happy. Yeah, and we'll be happy. And then they
Speaker 1: stayed together until like three years ago. Okay, they never
Speaker 1: separated until now, and I feel like there's so much
Speaker 1: happier and fulfilled because of it. But they were thinking
Speaker 1: they were staying together for the kids. Yeah, and as
Speaker 1: a kid, I was like, no, no, no no, no, no, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's so interesting. Well, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: when my parents got divorced both times it was the
Speaker 1: right thing. They got divorced twice, so they're not together now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my dad's remarried and my mom hasn't. But both times
Speaker 1: I think it was the right thing to do. I
Speaker 1: wasn't actively encouraging it when I was younger. It was
Speaker 1: traumatic for me when I was younger, but it was
Speaker 1: the right thing to do. Yeah, how are you finding
Speaker 1: that now being a parent yourself? Like, are the what
Speaker 1: are the parts of this journey that kind of influence
Speaker 1: your approach now? Because you are aware that we are
Speaker 1: not perfect, any one of us. Yeah, I'm aware we're
Speaker 1: not perfect, but I do feel I think and I
Speaker 1: both really believe in the idea of creating like stability
Speaker 1: in our home for our kids, showering them with love
Speaker 1: and encouragement, teaching them about what it means to be kind,
Speaker 1: what it means to be loving, what it means to
Speaker 1: be generous, what it means to be passionate about something
Speaker 1: and pursue it. All those things we want for them,
Speaker 1: and we want them to see in us a loving
Speaker 1: relationship that teaches them what love is supposed to feel
Speaker 1: like and what it's supposed to be like. I want
Speaker 1: us to be a great example of what love means
Speaker 1: for them and how they should expect a partner to
Speaker 1: treat them, how they should treat their partner. I want
Speaker 1: to be a good example for them, and I think
Speaker 1: Chrissy does too. And yeah, I don't want to get divorced.
Speaker 1: I know that, Yeah, I really truly you know, And
Speaker 1: you've come from a situation where you're like, well, they
Speaker 1: should have gotten divorces, the right thing for them to do.
Speaker 1: But also I'm like, oh, I really want a stable
Speaker 1: home for our kids, and I want them to be
Speaker 1: surrounded by love and to see in us an example
Speaker 1: of what love means, and hopefully we can maintain that
Speaker 1: for decades and decades to come. Like I want to
Speaker 1: ask to be grandparents, having them over for Sunday dinner,
Speaker 1: and like I want that for us. Yeah, I wish
Speaker 1: that for you too. Definitely, that's beautiful and I don't
Speaker 1: disagree with you. I think the point you made this
Speaker 1: is so clear that you want what stability means. And
Speaker 1: I think what sometimes I don't don't recognize as staying
Speaker 1: together is unstable. Sometimes it is sometimes yeah, but there's
Speaker 1: always gonna be some unstability instability, of course. But I
Speaker 1: think that's the challenge. Like we usually see togetherness as
Speaker 1: stability and breaking up as instability, but often if two
Speaker 1: people are together but it's causing more stress for everyone else,
Speaker 1: that's true. And there's definitely circumstances like that. Yeah, God
Speaker 1: forbid that happens to us. No, no, no, yeah, definitely know.
Speaker 1: And by the way, it's so interesting what you're saying,
Speaker 1: because I literally just spoke. I just interviewed doctor Gaba Matte,
Speaker 1: and he's like a healing and trauma expert and researcher.
Speaker 1: He's like in his seventies, I think, right, And so
Speaker 1: he's been doing this his whole life, like looking at trauma,
Speaker 1: looking addiction, looking at children, and he literally just said
Speaker 1: what you just said where it's like you can't love
Speaker 1: your kids too much, like you know, giving them a safe,
Speaker 1: loving environment. And I think for a long time I
Speaker 1: confused love and safety and I realized like safety was
Speaker 1: really what you needed as a child. Yes, you really do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really truly believe that. And we want to have
Speaker 1: them feel safe and surrounded by love and care. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you don't want to allow them to make mistakes,
Speaker 1: but you do want them to feel like they can
Speaker 1: make mistakes in safety. And I think when people feel unsafe,
Speaker 1: it contributes to fear, contributes to trauma, and a lot
Speaker 1: of things that make their responses unhealthy as they get older,
Speaker 1: because if they're dealing with so much fear and danger
Speaker 1: in their lives, it affects the way they respond to stimuli.
Speaker 1: It affects the way they deal with fight or flight
Speaker 1: and all these things that kind of these mechanisms at
Speaker 1: your body has to deal with trauma and fear, Like
Speaker 1: if they get activated too much, then it's hard for
Speaker 1: them to cope with life. Yeah, absolutely, When when someone's
Speaker 1: as exceptional as you are, what you do I want
Speaker 1: to hear about, like what was the hardest part about
Speaker 1: getting that good? Like what was the When was it
Speaker 1: challenging to pick up an instrument or learn an element
Speaker 1: of music? Like what was the was there ever or
Speaker 1: what did it? Just? Was it just so natural and
Speaker 1: effortless that it's always been that way? There's always effort,
Speaker 1: And I think part of it is like figuring out
Speaker 1: what you want to specialize in, what you want to
Speaker 1: do really well. Like I played the piano pretty well,
Speaker 1: but I'm not like an expert concert pianist, Like I've
Speaker 1: seen what they can do and I can't do it.
Speaker 1: And I got good enough at the piano to accompany myself,
Speaker 1: to accompany others to write and to perform live. But
Speaker 1: people that focus on playing the piano are much better
Speaker 1: at playing the piano than I am. What I've chosen
Speaker 1: to focus on is being the best singer songwriter that
Speaker 1: can be. So I spend a lot of time focusing
Speaker 1: on my voice, focusing on songwriting. So those are the
Speaker 1: two most important things for me, and those are the
Speaker 1: things that I spend the most time and energy on
Speaker 1: and it's not easy to write songs and it doesn't
Speaker 1: come automatically. But I've developed ways of getting getting to
Speaker 1: that point where I'm pretty good at writing a song
Speaker 1: and even my worst songs are pretty good. That didn't
Speaker 1: come automatically, though. It came through like just writing a lot,
Speaker 1: listening to a lot of music, but also writing a
Speaker 1: lot of music and trying different ideas, seeing them work,
Speaker 1: and collaborating with other people who push me and bring
Speaker 1: out the best to me and give me new ideas.
Speaker 1: All of that made me a better writer. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't easy and it wasn't automatic. Yeah, there's often a
Speaker 1: perception that people have that the way you write songs
Speaker 1: or whatever is that when someone's going through emotional turmoil,
Speaker 1: their artistic expression is heightened, and then when their external
Speaker 1: circumstances are less stressful, it can be harder to find creativity.
Speaker 1: Is that true? Is that accurate? Or have you found
Speaker 1: that you can always or you have a method to
Speaker 1: always tap it? Because your songs are like your lyrics
Speaker 1: are highly emotive. Your songs are about real issues in
Speaker 1: your life. It doesn't matter whether your external life has changed.
Speaker 1: How have you continue to be able to access that
Speaker 1: because I think some people think, oh, when my life
Speaker 1: was hard, I wrote my best music, and now that
Speaker 1: my external life is simpler. Because there's no easy life.
Speaker 1: My external life is simple. I kind of find it
Speaker 1: hard at access. I've gotten so experienced at writing that
Speaker 1: I can turn it on pretty much at any point.
Speaker 1: But one of the ways I do that is by
Speaker 1: bringing other people in the room, and so that way
Speaker 1: you're not always relying on your own inspiration, which may
Speaker 1: be hard to summon sometimes. And I think because I've
Speaker 1: been such a promiscuous collaborator, it enables me to stay
Speaker 1: refreshed as as a creative person, because even if I
Speaker 1: don't immediately have an idea, I could be in a
Speaker 1: room with someone who does, and then I can bounce
Speaker 1: off of that, build on that, and we can create
Speaker 1: something together. And then also have quite a bit of
Speaker 1: methodology around my songwriting that makes it easier for me
Speaker 1: to tap into my creativity and tap into that inspiration
Speaker 1: so that when I have it, I'm able to go
Speaker 1: from inspiration to completion in a way that's tried and
Speaker 1: true for me. And that's why I spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time on in the master classes, just explaining, you know,
Speaker 1: like this is my methodology for writing a song. The
Speaker 1: inspiration is going to come from different places. Sometimes it
Speaker 1: comes just from I dream about a song and I
Speaker 1: sing it into my phone and and remember it that way,
Speaker 1: record it for later, and then go to completion when
Speaker 1: I go back to the studio and like sit down
Speaker 1: to write. But either way, the inspiration is going to
Speaker 1: come at some point. Sometimes it's just a riff that
Speaker 1: somebody else plays or a beat that someone else plays,
Speaker 1: and then it leads me into a vocal melody, and
Speaker 1: the vocal melody leads me into like a feeling of like,
Speaker 1: this is what this song feels like to me, This
Speaker 1: is what the story is that I want to tell.
Speaker 1: And then I know how to build a song pretty
Speaker 1: easily from those kind of seeds of ideas. And yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I spent a lot of time on the
Speaker 1: master classes, just teach that once you get this seed
Speaker 1: of an idea, here's how you take it to a
Speaker 1: complete song. And it works really well for me because
Speaker 1: it makes it so that I can write once I
Speaker 1: have the idea right pretty quickly. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: I want to unpack that for everyone because I think
Speaker 1: from anyone that I've sat down with who I believe
Speaker 1: is extreme high, extremely high performing in their space. Obviously
Speaker 1: everyone on a masterclasses at that level in their field.
Speaker 1: And then when I've sat down with people like Kobe
Speaker 1: Bryant as well, or like Novak Djokovic or Jennifer Lopez,
Speaker 1: is like everyone always talks about this balance with what
Speaker 1: you're saying perfectly is like there's inspiration and then there's regulation,
Speaker 1: there's like actual methods, processes, structure. It's like we all
Speaker 1: think that there's a magic moment, which it sounds like
Speaker 1: there is, then that magic needs to turn into a method, yes,
Speaker 1: in order to actually turn into something beautiful. Absolutely, And
Speaker 1: the people that you were referring to, like Kobe, he
Speaker 1: was so naturally gifted, so he had this god given
Speaker 1: gift to be this amazing athlete. But he took the
Speaker 1: gift which some people have and don't maximize it like
Speaker 1: he did. He took that gift and worked so hard,
Speaker 1: practice so hard, It spend so much time in the gym,
Speaker 1: Like there needs to be more to your your ability
Speaker 1: than this natural ability. It needs to be cultivated, it
Speaker 1: needs to be honed, it needs to be practiced, and
Speaker 1: with songwriting, I've gotten to that point where it's not
Speaker 1: just oh I have a gift for music, Oh I
Speaker 1: can sing, Oh I have a good ear, it's oh
Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time honing my craft as
Speaker 1: a songwriter, and it helps me figure out how to
Speaker 1: take this idea and make it a song that works. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I love how everyone's different, Like I completely agree
Speaker 1: with you. Like when I'm doing this, it's like, even
Speaker 1: though I'm not in the same field as you, you
Speaker 1: could say something, I'm like, oh that I need to
Speaker 1: do more of that. I think I mean and when
Speaker 1: you when Kobe passed, I spend a lot of time
Speaker 1: just thinking about just like what it takes to be
Speaker 1: someone like him, and I think it really inspired me.
Speaker 1: It's like you really like, if you want to be great,
Speaker 1: if you want to be like world changingly great at something,
Speaker 1: you got to put in the time and energy to
Speaker 1: do that, and it can be inspiring to see examples
Speaker 1: of that in the world and then say, yeah, I
Speaker 1: want to be more like that. Yeah. Well, even when
Speaker 1: you're giving the example of when you're in the studio
Speaker 1: and you're bringing people in, like for me, the podcast
Speaker 1: is like that like, I sit down with people that
Speaker 1: I'm not in the field of a tool, yes, and
Speaker 1: I get to do I'm like, oh, that's how they
Speaker 1: do in their field. How can I apply that yes
Speaker 1: to mine? And I think that's what Moss class does great.
Speaker 1: But because we had Russ on the wrapper and he
Speaker 1: was talking about the opposite where he was like, I
Speaker 1: don't like having anyone in the room with me because
Speaker 1: if people are in the room with me, then I
Speaker 1: don't get to be silly or I don't get to
Speaker 1: be totally expressive. So he said to us, he was like,
Speaker 1: I get rid of everyone and then I make weird
Speaker 1: sounds into the microphone to see what works for me.
Speaker 1: Whereas if my boys were that he would saying if
Speaker 1: my boys were there, he was like, they're all laugh
Speaker 1: at me. Yeah. And so I'm wondering, who do you
Speaker 1: like having around you that could you give us an
Speaker 1: example of some people that you've sat with it you're like,
Speaker 1: and they don't have to be even people that we know.
Speaker 1: They could be other people behind the scenes, but someone
Speaker 1: that you're like, oh yeah, when they're in the room,
Speaker 1: they kind of sparked me this way or that way. Well,
Speaker 1: I take his point as saying, you don't want people
Speaker 1: around that aren't totally bought in creatively, because you want
Speaker 1: people in the room that are in there to create
Speaker 1: something beautiful with you, and if they're there to be like,
Speaker 1: you're kind of what my senses, I don't know him,
Speaker 1: and I don't know his friends, but what I'm my
Speaker 1: senses that he's saying like he might want to be
Speaker 1: too cool around them, and if he's too cool around them,
Speaker 1: he may not come up with the best art. And
Speaker 1: I think it's important to have I don't have a
Speaker 1: random people in the studio when we write, Like I
Speaker 1: have only writers in the studio and we just sit
Speaker 1: there and vibe off of each other and see where
Speaker 1: the vibe take says, and hopefully everybody's bought in to
Speaker 1: the idea that we just want to make something amazing
Speaker 1: and something beautiful and something interesting and something that's a
Speaker 1: great song. And they're not worried about being cool, not
Speaker 1: worried about anything else other than let's make this great.
Speaker 1: That idea of being around people that you're okay to
Speaker 1: make mistakes around, fearless around, Like that's the kind of
Speaker 1: people you want in the room. And we just try things,
Speaker 1: and I try not to have an ego about my ideas.
Speaker 1: So that means if like I do a thing called
Speaker 1: a mumble track, usually where I just mumble a melody
Speaker 1: and see if we like it, and some of the
Speaker 1: other writers in the room may do the same thing,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I like their idea better than mine.
Speaker 1: And I think you need to have that openness to
Speaker 1: other people's ideas, that humility when you're a collaborator. And
Speaker 1: so I think part of what I'm really good at
Speaker 1: is that spirit of collaboration. So I understand that all
Speaker 1: the great ideas don't need to come from me, and
Speaker 1: that I can benefit from this other energy and creativity
Speaker 1: in the room and be open to it, you know,
Speaker 1: be humble enough to receive it and not think that
Speaker 1: it all has to come from me. Yeah, egolesseness is
Speaker 1: hard though, Like that's like especially as you become more successful,
Speaker 1: Like I think that's something people struggle with because you
Speaker 1: have to trust yourself to some degree. So how did
Speaker 1: you well? I think So the interesting about ego is
Speaker 1: like the people that you think of that have big
Speaker 1: egos also very insecure. So it's like it's a very
Speaker 1: interesting thing about that combination of the inflated ego and
Speaker 1: the heightened insecurities at the same time, and it can
Speaker 1: be very debilitating when that's the issue, because a lot
Speaker 1: of times when you hear, well, this artist, whenever they come,
Speaker 1: they won't let you look at them. They want this
Speaker 1: and that. And what I hear when I hear that's
Speaker 1: not although they think so much, so highly of themselves,
Speaker 1: I think all they're pretty insecure probably, and so it's
Speaker 1: interesting thinking about that and what that means and what
Speaker 1: they kind of I don't know what the psychology is
Speaker 1: behind that, but it's an interesting combination that I've observed
Speaker 1: in the world is that people that are seen as
Speaker 1: having big egos and being difficult to work with are
Speaker 1: also usually pretty insecure exactly. I think you're spot on.
Speaker 1: When I started the show, when I started interviewing people,
Speaker 1: I noticed that too, where there was natural social anxiety
Speaker 1: and a lot of people were just so used to
Speaker 1: being on when the camera was on that that's when
Speaker 1: they came into full force. But then when the camera
Speaker 1: was off, it's not that they didn't care, it's that
Speaker 1: they didn't even know how to connect because they've been
Speaker 1: so trained in that way, and so you're right. I
Speaker 1: think it's so interesting that from the outside we could
Speaker 1: be that all that person as an ego or they're
Speaker 1: being arrogant, or they you know, they have a they're braggadocious,
Speaker 1: or they have a bravado, but it's not that it's Yeah,
Speaker 1: my assumption is that they're probably insecure. That's usually my assumption. Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: that's what I said. I'm going to give you a
Speaker 1: bit of context before this next question because I so
Speaker 1: my wife been married for ten years now, sorry, married
Speaker 1: for six he has been together for ten years, and
Speaker 1: she my team was looking at the other day she
Speaker 1: was reading a book and they were like, oh, what
Speaker 1: are you reading because she'd taken the cover off and
Speaker 1: they can tell. And she's like, oh, I'm reading my
Speaker 1: husband's book. Is in my book, which I wrote two
Speaker 1: years ago now two and a half, two years ago,
Speaker 1: And they were like, what have you not read it?
Speaker 1: Like most of my teams read the book and she
Speaker 1: had it and they're like no, no, she was like, no,
Speaker 1: I never got around to it, you know, I read bits.
Speaker 1: So like, so my question is I heard Chrissy said
Speaker 1: something similar where like she sees the name of a
Speaker 1: song and then she's like wondering, like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: how did he call that the name of the song?
Speaker 1: Is she a number one? Five? Does she listen to
Speaker 1: everything or do you often find that like she's catching
Speaker 1: up with everyone else. Well, she doesn't love hearing like
Speaker 1: demo versions of songs, so she doesn't like to kind
Speaker 1: of be in the sausage making part of the album,
Speaker 1: and so she'd rather hear it once everything's done. And
Speaker 1: so that ends up meaning that she's like learning about
Speaker 1: things when you know, close to win, a lot of
Speaker 1: other people are learning about them too, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: there are times where she's like, oh news to me. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: she just doesn't like to be in early on the
Speaker 1: process because she's found I think from when we first
Speaker 1: started dating that when she fell in love with the
Speaker 1: demo versions, that we changed them so much that she
Speaker 1: didn't like, you know, kind of falling in love with
Speaker 1: the early versions because it kind of almost disappointed her
Speaker 1: when the finished version was out because she felt like
Speaker 1: less connection to it. So she decided she just didn't
Speaker 1: want to be involved early on in the sausage making
Speaker 1: or she has good reasoning. My wife didn't have time
Speaker 1: for me. But I find that's interesting in couples, right,
Speaker 1: the idea of like we were talking about being a
Speaker 1: good example as a couple and trying to build that
Speaker 1: loving relationship. Like I find that in an immature stage
Speaker 1: in my relationship, I constantly wanted my wife to be
Speaker 1: my number one fan. Uh, Like there was a time
Speaker 1: where I was like I wanted to read everything and
Speaker 1: listen to everything and one everything and share everything and
Speaker 1: like this I'm talking about like maybe like seven eight
Speaker 1: years ago. And then as time went on, I just
Speaker 1: started to realize I was like, well, she's not with
Speaker 1: me for those things, right, Like she can support them
Speaker 1: and appreciate that, but she's living with the real me
Speaker 1: and is experiencing that. Like I guess my question is like,
Speaker 1: how do couples appreciate and admire each other in an
Speaker 1: effective way when often we just lead on our partner
Speaker 1: for validation and glorification often. Yeah, I still really want
Speaker 1: Chrissy to be into my work. I love it, and
Speaker 1: I think more so because like it just feels good
Speaker 1: to know that she has good taste and she loves
Speaker 1: music and that she likes something I did, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like that's awesome, and I want her to love it.
Speaker 1: And I respect her a lot and I trust her
Speaker 1: a lot, and I feel like she has good taste.
Speaker 1: So if she likes something I did and she especially
Speaker 1: likes it, then that's a really good sign for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it feels good. Like it's not that I'm insecure
Speaker 1: about it, is that, like I really want her to
Speaker 1: love it, and I want everyone to love it, but
Speaker 1: I want her to love it more. I know I'm
Speaker 1: the same I was doing something recently, but but my
Speaker 1: wife's was the persson that will give you the most
Speaker 1: honest feedback. Yes, Like I will practice a presentation or
Speaker 1: whatever I'm doing in front of and she will just
Speaker 1: pick it apaw. But I know she's doing it. I
Speaker 1: love because she also wants me to be incredible at
Speaker 1: what I do. And we help each other so much,
Speaker 1: and we believe in each other and we support each
Speaker 1: other so much. So you know, when she's working on
Speaker 1: a cookbook, I'm you know, helping her, I'm tasting stuff,
Speaker 1: I'm doing whatever I can to help. And you know,
Speaker 1: we collaborate on a lot of business things together. So
Speaker 1: there's a lot we do together. But she doesn't like
Speaker 1: to be in the weeds of my music creating career,
Speaker 1: but she goes a lot of my shows. She always
Speaker 1: has feedback form you know, how we can put the
Speaker 1: show together better and be more effective, you know, set
Speaker 1: list and arrangements and different things like that. She has
Speaker 1: ideas about how it should look, and she's giving me
Speaker 1: great feedback over the years on that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm always happy when she's proud of me, and
Speaker 1: when she's excited. That's when you know, I feel very like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're doing something right here. Yeah, No, I feel them.
Speaker 1: I can relate to that too, Like like if I
Speaker 1: do something and my wife's happy, it's a different it's
Speaker 1: a different form of like my Vega show, like I'm
Speaker 1: so proud of it. But um, it was especially good
Speaker 1: for me to hear that she was so proud of
Speaker 1: it and and so excited to show her friends and
Speaker 1: you know, tell people about it, because that just it
Speaker 1: was like, it's a it's an extra good feeling when
Speaker 1: when she says that, Yeah, definitely, no, I relate. And
Speaker 1: I think the question came from I think it was
Speaker 1: when she said something about when she sold a song
Speaker 1: title I Don't Love You like I used Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's an interesting song, great song. It's for a couple
Speaker 1: because it's like, um, when you go through things together,
Speaker 1: you learn more about each other, you grow, and it's
Speaker 1: not the same kind of love you had when you
Speaker 1: first met. When we first met, we were like very
Speaker 1: attracted to each other. It was it was our chemistry
Speaker 1: was great. But that level of attraction is more like
Speaker 1: infatuation at the beginning of a relationship, and love, when
Speaker 1: it is able to stand the test of time, it
Speaker 1: has to be deeper and more like a more real
Speaker 1: than that. We've been through enough to gather where it's
Speaker 1: like really fortified us and made us stronger, and those
Speaker 1: tests have made us grow together and and you know,
Speaker 1: realize things about each other that we didn't know. And
Speaker 1: going through all of that makes you be able to
Speaker 1: write and sing a song called I Don't Love You
Speaker 1: like I used to. It's it's different now, but it's better. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that song because I felt the same way.
Speaker 1: I was. Just like that is such a great title
Speaker 1: because you're like, oh, no, what's going on And then
Speaker 1: you're like, no, actually, it's true. And I think the
Speaker 1: challenge with love is that we we've been programmed to
Speaker 1: believe that it should stay the same. Yeah, we've been
Speaker 1: programmed to believe that you should go recreate your first
Speaker 1: date and everything should feel like your first date. And
Speaker 1: it's almost like, well, what if it got better? You know,
Speaker 1: what if there's more? What were you like when you
Speaker 1: met Chrissy? And how have you evolved you think, as
Speaker 1: a as a man, as a human, as a person, Like,
Speaker 1: what has evolved and grown about you in a positive way? Well?
Speaker 1: I think I was more selfish than like, I wasn't
Speaker 1: a great partner at the beginning of our relationship, even
Speaker 1: though I was very into her and very excited to
Speaker 1: be with her, Like, I was still selfish. I was
Speaker 1: in my you know, mid twenties, still like, you know,
Speaker 1: not ready to fully be like the committed partner that
Speaker 1: I am now. But you know, once you really figure
Speaker 1: out that you love someone and you're really like, love
Speaker 1: so much about them and you really want to make
Speaker 1: it work with that person, like you have to decide
Speaker 1: like I'm going to do the things I need to
Speaker 1: do to be a good partner in this relationship. And
Speaker 1: I've just grown as a person because of that too.
Speaker 1: Because when you stop being so selfish, when you think
Speaker 1: about not only the joy you get from a situation
Speaker 1: and the pleasure you get from it, but also think
Speaker 1: about your responsibility and your commitment in that situation. I
Speaker 1: think you just grow and you're mature, and that's you know.
Speaker 1: I think part of it's just a matter of time.
Speaker 1: You need time to become that person that you want
Speaker 1: to be. Think in your mid twenties, you're still dealing
Speaker 1: with impulse control, you're still dealing with selfishness, you're still
Speaker 1: figuring out what you want to do in your career.
Speaker 1: All these things are happening. But when you figure those
Speaker 1: things out, you can just be a better person in general.
Speaker 1: And I think it makes you better at other things too,
Speaker 1: when you're when you're able to understand that balance between
Speaker 1: what you're trying to get from a relationship but also
Speaker 1: what you need to give to make it work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what did you think that you didn't value about her
Speaker 1: in the beginning? But today, like you're like, oh, I
Speaker 1: noticed that more now, Like I didn't even get that
Speaker 1: at that time because of my immaturity or earliness. Well,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've just learned so much about her personality,
Speaker 1: how she reacts to stress, how she reacts to life,
Speaker 1: how she can find a joke even in the craziest
Speaker 1: even in grief, like she's able to find humor, And like,
Speaker 1: I feel like you see so many things about your
Speaker 1: partner as you grow together and as you experience adversity together.
Speaker 1: And what I've seen from her just made me love
Speaker 1: her more and value her more. Like I think she's
Speaker 1: cooler now than I've ever thought she was. Like I
Speaker 1: just really have seen her in all kinds of situations.
Speaker 1: I just value her more and in awe of her
Speaker 1: more than I ever have been as beautiful. That's great.
Speaker 1: I wish the same for my marriage too. It's uh,
Speaker 1: I wish for everyone. Honestly. I love love. I went
Speaker 1: to two weddings this weekend. Wow, And and like I
Speaker 1: truly like I can when I'm at these weddings, Like
Speaker 1: I genuinely get emotional, and I genuinely feel like joy
Speaker 1: for this couple in embarking on this journey together. And
Speaker 1: I love celebrating that. I love um seeing it flourish
Speaker 1: and seeing people who are committed to each other make
Speaker 1: it work like I love it. Yeah, No, me too,
Speaker 1: I love love too. And I've just written a whole
Speaker 1: new book about Love. Yeah, it comes out next year.
Speaker 1: But it's like I officiated two weddings in the last
Speaker 1: twelve months, and the difference, the pressure and the honor
Speaker 1: of doing that. My whole thought person in my head
Speaker 1: is don't cry. Don't cry, because I love love so
Speaker 1: much and all I want to do is like cry
Speaker 1: and just like appreciate. I haven't had to officiate any
Speaker 1: weddings quite a few. Yeah, but yeah, I got emotional
Speaker 1: this weekend. And I think part of it as being
Speaker 1: a dad too now, because when I watched the bride's
Speaker 1: dad walk her down the aisle, I got super emotional.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about my daughter and thinking about
Speaker 1: my son, and just thinking about, you know, just what
Speaker 1: it means to pour all this love into these little
Speaker 1: people and then to watch them grow up and experience
Speaker 1: life and find love. It was beautiful. That's amazing. I
Speaker 1: love that. I love that you mentioned grief, and then
Speaker 1: you the song pieces in the new album. There's there's
Speaker 1: the beautiful lyric let your Broken Heart Learn to Live
Speaker 1: in Pieces, and I just I literally just haven't stopped
Speaker 1: thinking about that because I think that there's so much
Speaker 1: about us that's constantly trying to get everything to fit
Speaker 1: and even with the heart, we're trying to become whole again.
Speaker 1: Like there's always that concept, but you're like, let your
Speaker 1: broken heart learn to live in pieces, Like where did
Speaker 1: that come from? Like that? Well, the idea of the
Speaker 1: song is that we never completely shed or forget this
Speaker 1: trauma that we may go through in life, this loss,
Speaker 1: this heartbreak, Like we'll remember it. There will be times
Speaker 1: when we'll feel those pangs of memory that it'll come back. Um.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you can't heal, it doesn't mean you
Speaker 1: can't recover, but it does mean that that grief will
Speaker 1: will still be a part of who you are, a
Speaker 1: part of your story. Effectively recovering from that means not
Speaker 1: forgetting it, not that it didn't happen, but learning to
Speaker 1: live with it and learning to continue to live with
Speaker 1: it and and and experience life and joy and pain
Speaker 1: and all the things that come in life afterwards. Um,
Speaker 1: continue to like live on, um, despite the fact that
Speaker 1: this grief won't ever leave you completely. Yeah, it's almost
Speaker 1: it's almost like we're asking the wrong question, where it
Speaker 1: was like how do I move on? How do I
Speaker 1: get over this? And you're saying, well, you're saying you're
Speaker 1: gonna I'm saying you're gonna carry it. It's it's it's
Speaker 1: part of your life now, it's part of your story,
Speaker 1: part of who you are, like I said with Chrissy,
Speaker 1: like I've seen so much growth through our grief and
Speaker 1: through our tragedy. It's always going to be part of
Speaker 1: who we are. And I'm fine with that. Like it's
Speaker 1: part of who we are, it's we carry it with
Speaker 1: us and it's okay. Yeah, and that and I'm sorry
Speaker 1: for your loss and I'm let you know that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's pretty much anything harder to go
Speaker 1: through than Yeah, I've never been through anything harder. But
Speaker 1: it just means you know, when you live long enough,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go through something like that. And figuring out
Speaker 1: how to continue to live as you carry that with
Speaker 1: you is um is what the song's really about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And often we find that those traumatic and difficult experiences
Speaker 1: can break people apart. But you you you focus on
Speaker 1: growing closer together. What do you think is that difference?
Speaker 1: Like you your values are so clear, I can tell
Speaker 1: this interview like values of children and a family, of love,
Speaker 1: of kindness, of connection, Like how do you and moments
Speaker 1: like that, is it that your values drive you forward
Speaker 1: or like how do you make sure? Because I think
Speaker 1: sometimes people just have experiences that derail the everything else
Speaker 1: that's going right. Yeah, And I don't know, because, like
Speaker 1: I think part of it is just we are We
Speaker 1: were already on a great foundation where we really respected
Speaker 1: and loved and enjoyed being with each other, respect to
Speaker 1: each other's values and the ways, you know, well, the
Speaker 1: things that we saw in each other's character that we
Speaker 1: fell in love with or still there. But I think
Speaker 1: you also have to like commit to working through pain,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, and I think we both committed to
Speaker 1: doing it, like doing the work that we needed to
Speaker 1: do to get through it. Yeah. No, I'm happy to
Speaker 1: hear that. And you know, my present thank you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because yeah, And I think having already had two kids
Speaker 1: together was definitely helpful because they just bring so much
Speaker 1: joy into our lives and laughter and fun, and they
Speaker 1: they're a great focus for our energy. And so even
Speaker 1: when you're going through deep grief on losing and pregnancy,
Speaker 1: you still have these two beautiful babies that you love,
Speaker 1: and I think that was certainly helpful. Yeah. Now now
Speaker 1: the questions are moving into a selfish space where I'm
Speaker 1: asking just for me now, So how have you managed?
Speaker 1: Like what if you know you've abus said this beautiful
Speaker 1: relationship you've got, You've got two beautiful children that you
Speaker 1: both love, and you know, when I think about me
Speaker 1: and my wife, like, we also spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time saying, look, let's stabilize our relationship first before we
Speaker 1: think about having kids, because we don't want to invite
Speaker 1: beautiful new souls into a relationship where we're not sure
Speaker 1: where we're going or how we're working together. How have
Speaker 1: you managed to be so career focused and successful and
Speaker 1: keep relationship successful with this? Because I find a lot
Speaker 1: of people having children can be the most stressful time
Speaker 1: of their life. It's stressful. I mean, first of all,
Speaker 1: we're very fortunate. We have lots of people around us
Speaker 1: to help us. We can afford, you know, childcare, We
Speaker 1: can afford a lot of things that there are plenty
Speaker 1: of families that can't afford having that is no small thing,
Speaker 1: like those having help, having my mother in law around,
Speaker 1: having you know, grandparents around to help is like all
Speaker 1: these things are very helpful and they alleviate some of
Speaker 1: the stress and make it easier for parents to balance it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do think you have to be ready
Speaker 1: to take on that responsibility. I think a lot of times,
Speaker 1: you know, it's about figuring out is at the right
Speaker 1: time in both of your careers to do it, particularly
Speaker 1: for the woman, like, it can be very difficult to
Speaker 1: figure out when that can be because, particularly in America,
Speaker 1: we don't have a lot of leave that's available for
Speaker 1: maternal or paternal leave that's available for a lot of families,
Speaker 1: and there's all kinds of obstacles in the way that
Speaker 1: make it harder for people to be working parents. And
Speaker 1: so I think a lot of people are making decisions
Speaker 1: about when I have kids based on that, And that's
Speaker 1: a real, like practical consideration that needs to be figured
Speaker 1: out for you to be able to handle it, because
Speaker 1: a lot of the stress around parenting is around having
Speaker 1: the resources and the childcare that you need, and when
Speaker 1: that's not right, it can be stressful. It can be
Speaker 1: stressful in your marriage, it can be stressful in so
Speaker 1: many other things. And so yeah, it and and my
Speaker 1: prescription that all those things need to be in order
Speaker 1: is like a hard prescription to feel though, because it's
Speaker 1: like it takes resources it takes family, it takes you know,
Speaker 1: everything being aligned, and everything's not going to be perfect
Speaker 1: for so many families, and they're still going to want
Speaker 1: to bring a life into the world. And yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's a challenge. Yeah, no, absolutely, And I think those
Speaker 1: things changing. I mean, yeah, when I was I was
Speaker 1: born and raised in London, and so when I worked there,
Speaker 1: like the maternity even the paternity was fantastic. I mean
Speaker 1: it could be even better, but it was great. It
Speaker 1: was like at least six months and then you could
Speaker 1: extend for another six months if you needed it. And
Speaker 1: it was not to be nerdy, but like, these are
Speaker 1: policy things that can affect people's decisions. You know, we're
Speaker 1: having a lot of conversation around reproductive rights and whether
Speaker 1: the state can force people to have kids. And what
Speaker 1: I think our conservative fellow citizens should realize is that
Speaker 1: people sometimes would like to have kids, but they're not
Speaker 1: in a place to be able to afford it or
Speaker 1: take care of it. And so if there are policy
Speaker 1: solutions like child tax credits, free childcare that would make
Speaker 1: it more likely that people would choose to have kids.
Speaker 1: And I think there's so many families that could use
Speaker 1: that kind of support, And I feel like one way
Speaker 1: that we could come together, conservatives and progressives to say,
Speaker 1: if you really believe in this idea that families are
Speaker 1: important as like a foundation for our society, and you
Speaker 1: want to do things to support people having children in
Speaker 1: their lives and building families, like, one way to do
Speaker 1: that is make sure they have the resources to make
Speaker 1: that choice in a way that they can handle it
Speaker 1: and their family can handle it. Yeah, is that one
Speaker 1: of the areas that you've been focused on, as you
Speaker 1: were speaking about earlier with has that been an area
Speaker 1: of focus for you? Well, this is something I think
Speaker 1: about all the time. So I think about it when
Speaker 1: it comes to our schools, making sure our schools have
Speaker 1: the resources that they need, making sure our communities have
Speaker 1: the resources they need. And it's kind of the impetus
Speaker 1: behind my entire political kind of inclination is how do
Speaker 1: we make our society more livable, more loving, more just,
Speaker 1: more equitable, And how do we support folks who don't
Speaker 1: have the resources they need right now? How do we
Speaker 1: make sure they get those resources? And so a lot
Speaker 1: of times my work has been about the criminal justice system,
Speaker 1: but what I like to do is point out the
Speaker 1: choices that we make around criminal justice, and how they
Speaker 1: are resource choices as well connected. Yes, they're more connected
Speaker 1: because because when we spend so much of our societal
Speaker 1: energy and resources and budgets on policing and locking people up,
Speaker 1: that necessarily precludes us from investing that money in other things.
Speaker 1: And so my advocacy work has really been around let's
Speaker 1: invest in these things that are edifying, that are building,
Speaker 1: that are productive, that are loving, that are just, and
Speaker 1: not invest as much as we have in the things
Speaker 1: that are more destructive and more about the state monopo
Speaker 1: realizing force and violence through policing and jailing people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for going to nerdy on us.
Speaker 1: It was good. We had to. No, it's important, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it is important to see
Speaker 1: the interconnectedness of a value of you know, family, man, children,
Speaker 1: and then how that actually scales up to an economy
Speaker 1: in a society, because we can have these in all
Speaker 1: small units, but it needs to change it. And I
Speaker 1: get into arguments, you know, with friends of mine who
Speaker 1: are I'm close with, and you know, they they'll see
Speaker 1: these news stories about crime going up and robberies going up,
Speaker 1: and and and they always kind of default to what
Speaker 1: we just got to punish people more like make them
Speaker 1: scared to do these kinds of things. And what I'm
Speaker 1: always thinking about is, well, how do we create a
Speaker 1: society where just less of that is happening. How do
Speaker 1: we create a society where people are healthier, they have
Speaker 1: the resources they need, they're not homeless, they're not addicted
Speaker 1: to drugs, and when they are, they're being treated and
Speaker 1: not punished. Like, how do we create society like that?
Speaker 1: And then a lot of these issues with violence and
Speaker 1: with property crimes and all these other things, they'll go
Speaker 1: down if we're investing in the kind of preventative measures
Speaker 1: that would make us healthier in general. Yeah. Absolutely, you
Speaker 1: were speaking about, you know, the journeys of people, like
Speaker 1: from everyone that you are homeschooled around or in your community,
Speaker 1: Like the journey that you've taken is that I'm guessing
Speaker 1: obviously that's very unique. It's very different when you when
Speaker 1: you look back on your life now, it's like a
Speaker 1: what's there? Like what keeps you going? And when you
Speaker 1: look back, what do you look back at and go?
Speaker 1: That was really special and that was beautiful, and that
Speaker 1: was something that I always cherished. What keeps me going well,
Speaker 1: part of it is just the joy I get from
Speaker 1: creating new things. It's a very like amazing sense of
Speaker 1: gratification that you get when you walk into a room
Speaker 1: and nothing exists except you know, loose ideas in your head,
Speaker 1: and then a few hours later, like you walk out
Speaker 1: with this new thing that exists. It's a song, And
Speaker 1: like that song could be the one that changes your life,
Speaker 1: it could mean something to all kinds of other people.
Speaker 1: I just at the wedding I went to one of
Speaker 1: the weddings I went to this weekend. Some guys said,
Speaker 1: I went to your show and it actually saved my marriage,
Speaker 1: and like, I could be writing that song then save
Speaker 1: someone's marriage tomorrow. And the fact that I get to
Speaker 1: go to work and create something brand new that didn't
Speaker 1: exist before is such a joy and I truly like
Speaker 1: I want to do it all the time. That keeps
Speaker 1: me going, And then being on stage is really exciting
Speaker 1: for me and fun. I love the connection I feel
Speaker 1: with the audience. I love when the show just feels
Speaker 1: like everybody's clicking on all cylinders. We're doing this together.
Speaker 1: We've got band members, dancers, singers, every body came together
Speaker 1: to put the show on, and we get it right,
Speaker 1: and we feel the energy from the crowd, and we
Speaker 1: feel the love from the crowd, and we're giving it
Speaker 1: to them, they're giving it back, and we feel this
Speaker 1: connection and this chemistry, this energy that we're all creating together.
Speaker 1: I love it. I truly love it, and I want
Speaker 1: to do it as long as as long as people
Speaker 1: will listen to me. Well, it's gonna be a long time.
Speaker 1: So who's someone that you spoke about collaborations. Who's someone
Speaker 1: that's no longer with us that you would have loved
Speaker 1: to have collaborated with in person or do you think
Speaker 1: it'd have like brought something out of you that Nina Simone.
Speaker 1: I'm a big Nina Simone fan. I named my daughter
Speaker 1: Luna Simone after her, and I have always loved her
Speaker 1: artistry and I would just love to jam with her.
Speaker 1: It would be so fun. She's such a great musician
Speaker 1: and had such a cool approach to arranging songs. She
Speaker 1: always did such interesting covers of songs too, like she
Speaker 1: would do like the definitive cover of so many songs,
Speaker 1: just because her musicianship and her point of view is
Speaker 1: so interesting. I would love to just soak in that
Speaker 1: for a little while. Yeah, And what about someone who's
Speaker 1: alive that you haven't collaborated with it yet, someone that
Speaker 1: you find inspiring in any field of music or anything.
Speaker 1: Kendrick Lamar I just hasn't happened yet. Like I've worked
Speaker 1: with almost every rapper in history, but Kendrick I'm truly
Speaker 1: a fan of. And I went to go see a
Speaker 1: show this weekend and love his new album, love all
Speaker 1: of his albums. I just think the lovel of artistry
Speaker 1: and care that he puts into everything is just so impressive.
Speaker 1: He's one of my favorite artists in any genre right now.
Speaker 1: I think he's just incredible. I love that when when
Speaker 1: you're working on an album, like how much? Because you're
Speaker 1: someone who works consistently on an album for a long
Speaker 1: amount of time before it comes out, right, there's not
Speaker 1: always new music all the time. What kind of in
Speaker 1: that creative process? Like how do you stay inspired in
Speaker 1: the ups and downs and the ebbs and flows of
Speaker 1: her long creative process which is ran now days? Like
Speaker 1: when you got someone like Kendrick, right, like everyone talks
Speaker 1: about Kendrick is someone who work on an album for
Speaker 1: a couple of years, which used to be the norm,
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, it's still a norm for me, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I mean. Yes, Yeah, I feel like making
Speaker 1: an album is about a two year process for me,
Speaker 1: and I try to put them out every two or
Speaker 1: three years. But you're not always gonna be inspired every day,
Speaker 1: but there's always another day. And you know, most albums,
Speaker 1: you know, around an hour, a little bit less, a
Speaker 1: little bit more. I did a double album this time,
Speaker 1: it's an hour twenty minute. But like, over a two
Speaker 1: year period, I'm going to have enough inspiration to make
Speaker 1: an hour. Yeah that's right. So there will be days
Speaker 1: when you know you don't feel it. And like I said,
Speaker 1: one of my best ways of combating any kind of
Speaker 1: writer's block is having other energy around me and other
Speaker 1: creative people in the room so that I feel like
Speaker 1: I can get inspired by things that are outside of
Speaker 1: my own head. And so I think that's important. Scheduling
Speaker 1: the time to write, I think it's important rather than
Speaker 1: just kind of waiting around for inspiration randomly to hit
Speaker 1: because you need I think you need to actively summon
Speaker 1: that rather than just kind of hoping it'll you're gonna
Speaker 1: knock you over the head every once in a while. Yea,
Speaker 1: you need to actively summon it, and so for me,
Speaker 1: scheduling the time is important too. Yeah, do you have
Speaker 1: any like weird quirks or habits to help summon that moment,
Speaker 1: or like some kind of things that you need around
Speaker 1: you or any items or things you need to see
Speaker 1: or is it more like just scheduling, planning, structure. And
Speaker 1: then you want the inspiration to come, and like it
Speaker 1: could come from a movie you saw just a line
Speaker 1: from the movie. Inspiration could come from a song you
Speaker 1: listen to in the car on the way to the studio.
Speaker 1: Inspiration could come from just a random conversation you had
Speaker 1: where just this line like stuck out to you. And then,
Speaker 1: like I said before, a lot of us do collaboration.
Speaker 1: So a producer may come in and he have a
Speaker 1: track or she'll have a track and play it for
Speaker 1: you and it's just music, but it speaks to you
Speaker 1: and you'll feel something from it and then build a
Speaker 1: song from that. And so those are different ways the
Speaker 1: inspiration comes. Yeah, what's been the difference about the first
Speaker 1: day when you stepped into a studio like two now
Speaker 1: when you step in, like what were the emotions and
Speaker 1: the feelings. Then what's changed? What stayed the same? Well,
Speaker 1: I think I have a better understanding of what I
Speaker 1: want to do now when I go into studio. I
Speaker 1: think before I just had less creative confidence, I think,
Speaker 1: and I've earned it through just working. Yeah, like time, work, repetition.
Speaker 1: Like I've just written a lot, and when I walk
Speaker 1: into the studio now, I just feel like I know
Speaker 1: how to write a song. I knew how to write
Speaker 1: a really good song, and I just need to like
Speaker 1: work on it. I need to spend the time, spend
Speaker 1: the energy, and do all those things to get inspired,
Speaker 1: like I said before, and then I'll figure it out. Yeah, John,
Speaker 1: You've been so gracious with your time and energy. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I've loved this conversation. It's it's fine. We've gone everywhere,
Speaker 1: like we just we talked about relationships, to talk about children.
Speaker 1: Were talking about your childhood, Like it's been so beautiful.
Speaker 1: We end every episode with two segments. One's a fast
Speaker 1: five quick questions so one word to one sentence answers Max,
Speaker 1: and then I'll tell you a boy the other one,
Speaker 1: So John Legend, these are your fast five all right,
Speaker 1: questionable one. What's the best advice you've ever received. I
Speaker 1: love Quincy Jones advice, he says, still from the best. Nice.
Speaker 1: That means, you know, be open to being influenced and
Speaker 1: like take some of that. Listen to different artists that
Speaker 1: you love and like think about how to incorporate their
Speaker 1: artistry into what you do. And I think the more
Speaker 1: I know this is longer than a sentence, it's good.
Speaker 1: It's a good thing. The more the more you do it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just start to develop who you are. But it's
Speaker 1: informed and inspired by all your influences. Yeah, I love
Speaker 1: that answer. You're you're allowed. It's good, you're allowed to go.
Speaker 1: Question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever heard
Speaker 1: or received? I don't know. I don't really catalog bad advice.
Speaker 1: One thing we laughed about was Kanye didn't like the
Speaker 1: title ordinary People for a song. Wow. Yeah, of course
Speaker 1: he changed his mind after while. Yeah, at first he
Speaker 1: was like, can you come up with a better But
Speaker 1: it went out that way. He never got changed, never changed, Yes,
Speaker 1: never got changed, but it was his He was like,
Speaker 1: can you come up with something better to say than that?
Speaker 1: But uh, eventually he fell in love with it and
Speaker 1: ended up directing the video for it, and uh and
Speaker 1: uh it became you know, obviously in a very important
Speaker 1: song at the beginning of my career. But we always
Speaker 1: thought it was funny that he was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: solding this ordinary people idea. I love that. Question number three,
Speaker 1: what's something that you used to value that you don't
Speaker 1: value anymore? Oh, I don't know. Well, I mean we
Speaker 1: just go through different phases in life. And I think
Speaker 1: I wanted like a certain kind of freedom when I
Speaker 1: was younger, Um, when I was a bachelor, and you know,
Speaker 1: you like treasure this kind of freedom and living like
Speaker 1: without as many commitments. But then you fall in love
Speaker 1: and you have kids with someone, and then like the
Speaker 1: commitment and the and the responsibility is like it's like
Speaker 1: it's life defining in so many ways, and you don't
Speaker 1: value that that kind of freedom that you thought you
Speaker 1: wanted before. Yeah, that's a beautiful answer. We've never never
Speaker 1: had that answer before. That's that's a special one. All right.
Speaker 1: Question or before the podcast is called on purpose? So
Speaker 1: how would you define your current purpose in life? My
Speaker 1: purpose is to bring love into the world. Um, it's
Speaker 1: so much the core of who I am artistically but
Speaker 1: also politically. I think love is like, I'm not religious.
Speaker 1: Love is my religion. That's beautiful. And fifthy final question
Speaker 1: for the fast five is if you could create one,
Speaker 1: one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
Speaker 1: what would it be one law? We asked this to
Speaker 1: every guess. You're getting us the same questions as every guest. Oh, well,
Speaker 1: to love one another, yes, let's love yes. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a very Christian. It's like the part of our Jesus's
Speaker 1: uh two commandments were that you would love God and
Speaker 1: that you would love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Speaker 1: And if you think about that idea of loving your
Speaker 1: neighbor as yourself, um, it's a pretty powerful idea. And
Speaker 1: if that were to guide our behaviors and our politics
Speaker 1: and and and just the way we treated each other,
Speaker 1: it would be, you know, pretty good world to live in.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely all right. And these these ones are going
Speaker 1: to be shorter. This is a segment called the Many
Speaker 1: Sides to Us And so again this can be one
Speaker 1: word for each one, literally one word. So what is
Speaker 1: the word to describe what someone would say about you
Speaker 1: me in you for the first time? Calm? Definitely, you
Speaker 1: were very calm when you came in today, would I
Speaker 1: would have to agree with it. We walked over, you
Speaker 1: were very calm. I don't have a lot of like
Speaker 1: highs and lows. I'm very even keel through life, which
Speaker 1: can be frustrating, like as a partner like Chrissy would
Speaker 1: like for me sometimes to be a little more dynamic.
Speaker 1: But I think you know, it's also like it's a
Speaker 1: gift and a curse because when you're going through like
Speaker 1: tough times and you need stability and you need a
Speaker 1: rock around you, I can be a rock. Well, that's
Speaker 1: why you need the humor in this spontane exactly. That's
Speaker 1: why we're good together. Yeah, that's my wife to my
Speaker 1: wife's the spontaneous one. I'm the even gil Well that
Speaker 1: works for us, all right. Question number two, what's a
Speaker 1: word to describe what someone would describe you that knows
Speaker 1: you very well? I think, honestly, so much much of
Speaker 1: how my friends will describe me as that I'm an
Speaker 1: even kil person, that I'm a calming presence, and that
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of highs and lows. So
Speaker 1: I think people that first meete me, think that people
Speaker 1: that love me for a long time think that as well.
Speaker 1: That's good. That's not a bad thing, all right. Question
Speaker 1: number three, what is the word this time? You can't
Speaker 1: say the same one, okay, because you're gonna have the
Speaker 1: same one that the first two made sense? What is
Speaker 1: the word you'd used to describe yourself creative? I love
Speaker 1: I love to create and I love putting new things
Speaker 1: out into the world. Ye. What's the word that someone
Speaker 1: that maybe doesn't agree with you would say about you? Well,
Speaker 1: let me think with you, let me go to my
Speaker 1: Twitter mentions. Well, I think people that don't know me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they know me. You know, they know that I called
Speaker 1: myself John Legend. That was assumed stage name. I wasn't
Speaker 1: born that, so they probably think I'm pretty arrogant. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think I am, but you know
Speaker 1: I could give off that sense that you know, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty arrogant, right, okay, all right? Question number five, the
Speaker 1: last one. What's the word that you're trying to embody? Love? Love?
Speaker 1: I love it Legend everyone. The master Class on Songwriting
Speaker 1: John Legend teaches Songwriting is available right now. I hope
Speaker 1: you go and subscribe to master Class. Genuinely, it is
Speaker 1: a phenomenal platform when you get access to all these
Speaker 1: incredible thinkers, leaders, teachers, guides when you sign up. As
Speaker 1: I said, I've been a subscriber since Bob Igers and
Speaker 1: I cannot wait. I can I become a good songwriter? John,
Speaker 1: That is the question, Even though that's a good question.
Speaker 1: I did Grael theory. I feel like there has to
Speaker 1: be some level of foundational musical understanding. Yeah, to use
Speaker 1: my class, but I think if you have that it
Speaker 1: can be really helpful. Well, I did grade five theory.
Speaker 1: I played piano up to grade four. Yes, and I
Speaker 1: used to play percussion, but I haven't done it since
Speaker 1: I was twelve. And you may need it like a collaborator,
Speaker 1: like an instrumentalist, like a guitarist or a pianist with
Speaker 1: you to help you kind of have some music theory
Speaker 1: because I can't in my class. I don't teach you
Speaker 1: a lot of like how to play the instrument, of course,
Speaker 1: but I teach you how to take the knowledge that
Speaker 1: you have and build a song from it. Absolutely, I
Speaker 1: love it, John Well. I hope we get to bump
Speaker 1: into each other again. Assure, Thank you man, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, great time energy, great to meet you. Thank you,
Speaker 1: And everyone's been listening watching back at home or wherever
Speaker 1: you are. If you're on the move, make sure that
Speaker 1: you tag John and I on Instagram, on Twitter, on TikTok.
Speaker 1: Let us know what stood out to you, what you learned,
Speaker 1: what you gained. Maybe there were some amazing experiences that
Speaker 1: you didn't know anything about. I love seeing what you
Speaker 1: take away, what you learn. Make sure you share that
Speaker 1: with both of us and I'll see it the next episode.