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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff Mom

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Speaker 1: never told you. Alright, So Halloween is upon us, which

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Speaker 1: means candy Jack Lanard's and costumes and unfortunately, offensive costumes.

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Speaker 1: This is something that comes up every year, and with

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Speaker 1: all of the news around us Senator Elizabeth Warren's DNA

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Speaker 1: test showing she had a Native American ancestors somewhere along

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Speaker 1: the line, and the problematic news coverage around to that.

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Speaker 1: Another related news item Megan Kelly's comments on the NBC

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Speaker 1: Today Show suggesting blackface is acceptable on Halloween. Her comments

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Speaker 1: were swiftly and pretty much universally condemned, and her show

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Speaker 1: was cance old. So we present to you this handy

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Speaker 1: guide what not to wear on Halloween. Welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: Mom Never told You from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline,

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Speaker 1: and this kicks off one of two Halloween themed episodes

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Speaker 1: that we're doing this year. And in this installment, we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about costumes. But we're not going to

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Speaker 1: talk about sexy costumes. Now, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: racist costumes people, Yeah, which sometimes take a turn for

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Speaker 1: the sexy and racist costumes if you can. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you can get both of those and one, you've become

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Speaker 1: a terrible Halloween costumes stereotype. Yes, and this is a

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Speaker 1: listener request that came from Facebook and it got a

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Speaker 1: lot of likes, so we said, hey, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: this costume issue, because Caroline, I remember distinctly when I

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Speaker 1: was in college, it was Halloween and you know, everybody

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Speaker 1: was out and I saw a guy dressed up as

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Speaker 1: a member of the Taliban and he was in brown

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Speaker 1: face and it was appalling. I mean, like, obviously he

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Speaker 1: was trying to make a terrible nine eleven joke and

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Speaker 1: being horribly racist about it. And that was my first

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Speaker 1: direct experience with the racist Halloween costume. Now, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: usually myself. I'm usually some sort of female cartoon character.

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Speaker 1: I've I've been uh, April O'Neil, and I've been Leela

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Speaker 1: from Futurama. But no, I can't say I've ever been

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Speaker 1: something like a member of a particular culture. That's a

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Speaker 1: really good thing because it happens a lot, and it's

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Speaker 1: become this issue where it's almost the annual conversation of

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Speaker 1: Halloween goes either the route of why are women's costumes

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Speaker 1: so super duper sexy? Or what's up with all of

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Speaker 1: these racially insensitive and flat out racist and cultural appropriation

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Speaker 1: ng costumes going on? Yeah? And I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it's good that we're talking about this, because it seems

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Speaker 1: like the overwhelming response anytime you see anything online or

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Speaker 1: hear about it on the radio or anywhere, people's overwhelming

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Speaker 1: response tends to be, oh, get over yourselves, right, why

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Speaker 1: are you so politically correct? Come on, like my family

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Speaker 1: didn't own slaves. I mean, it's like this, this whole,

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Speaker 1: very expected, predictable argument that people make for being able

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Speaker 1: to wear very culturally insensitive costumes, right, as though Halloween

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Speaker 1: is some special day where not only did children get candy,

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Speaker 1: but adults can get a free pass for wearing black

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Speaker 1: face if they're white. Um. So, in case you were

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Speaker 1: wondering some examples of costumes that are not okay, the

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Speaker 1: the blogs, The Root and color Lines did a large roundup,

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Speaker 1: and this first one I actually saw a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago when I was shopping for a costume for

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Speaker 1: a stuff I've never told you video. It's the ghetto

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Speaker 1: fab wig, the oversized afro, and I it stopped me

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Speaker 1: in my tracks when I was shopping, because not only

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Speaker 1: is it called the ghetto fab wig, but it was

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Speaker 1: also a white woman modeling it. Yeah, I when I

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Speaker 1: was when I saw that online, that picture that uh,

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Speaker 1: that wig. I don't understand why they couldn't Why do

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Speaker 1: they have to call it ghetto fabulous? You know? Like

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Speaker 1: part of the issue was the naming. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of people point this out on some of these blogs

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Speaker 1: where it's like, Okay, so you have, um a a

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Speaker 1: wig ahead of hair that is like more traditionally African American,

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Speaker 1: but you're naming it something like ghetto fabulous. Tacking the

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Speaker 1: fabulous on is supposed to make it okay or what exactly? Um? Well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of the hair issue, they're also gangster braids, which

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Speaker 1: look like Coolio on the cover of that album they

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Speaker 1: do from a long time ago. They do um. And

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Speaker 1: then there's the one that I have not seen before,

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Speaker 1: but it's called bighood of Fat Tribal Tiki Warrior, which

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Speaker 1: might sound hilarious but yet again, no, you're putting on

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Speaker 1: the costume of a Samoan man, right, Yeah. And then

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Speaker 1: you have one that is terrible, and I've seen several

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Speaker 1: inexplicably several iterations of this, which is the illegal alien

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Speaker 1: commentary on immigration. Uh. And usually it's like an a

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Speaker 1: literal like alien like from outer space face with either

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Speaker 1: a mustache or one particularly horrendous one had a like

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Speaker 1: prison uniform, an orange prison uniform. Yes, similarly to that,

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Speaker 1: you have the hay amigo, where it's just the typical

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Speaker 1: sombrero poncho, oversized mustache get up. And then there are

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Speaker 1: chop suey glasses, which your glasses that you can wear

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Speaker 1: that have eyes already in them that are slanted unlike yours.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, what are you doing right? And then of

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Speaker 1: course the Japanese geisha, which is chuck full of meaning

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Speaker 1: that we will talk about as we go on, but

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Speaker 1: just the whole as we will talk about also the

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Speaker 1: appropriation of other people's cultures, shrinking them down into something

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Speaker 1: kind of cheap and tawdry for one night of entertainment

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Speaker 1: and drinking, and then you get to go back to

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Speaker 1: being your privileged self the next day. Exactly. Um. So, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned how a lot of times when this conversation

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Speaker 1: of racial and cultural appropriation in Halloween costumes comes up,

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Speaker 1: the typical refrain from white people. We have to just

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Speaker 1: say flat out because that's who it's coming from a

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Speaker 1: lot of times, is you're being way too politically incorrect.

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Speaker 1: Can it just stop at some point? Can we just

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Speaker 1: have one night. I mean, it's not like I own slaves, okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and those arguments are are kind of ridiculous when

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Speaker 1: you I mean, let's just take a moment. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: the whole argument of I didn't own slaves or my

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Speaker 1: family didn't do that or whatever, Like, let's just think

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Speaker 1: back a minute through our nation's history and the fact

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people seem to just want to

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Speaker 1: forget what happened in this country with slavery. And so

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Speaker 1: when you fast fast forward to Halloween and people wanting

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Speaker 1: to adopt costumes that mock African Americans or just Africans, um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not okay. And your your joke that you're

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Speaker 1: trying to make is not funny. Yeah. Leslie Picka, who

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Speaker 1: is the associate professor of sociology at the University of

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Speaker 1: Dayton in Ohio, told the Route that when it comes

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Speaker 1: to just wanting to make those jokes, say we're just

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Speaker 1: kidding around about some stereotypes. She says It's especially insidious

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Speaker 1: because it shuts down future conversations about the real, very

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Speaker 1: unfunny issues, because oh, you're just making a joke out

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Speaker 1: of it, right, And so it puts the blame on

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Speaker 1: the person who's offended instead of the person who's doing

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Speaker 1: the offended. And so you know, if I if you're

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Speaker 1: if you're wearing a costume or or doing anything or

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Speaker 1: saying something that I find offensive, suddenly I'm the bad

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Speaker 1: guy because I'm offended because you're saying something about me

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Speaker 1: or my culture or my background or whatever. Um. And

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Speaker 1: that does, like, like uh Pia says, it does shut

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Speaker 1: down the conversation because it's like, well, if you're just

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Speaker 1: going to make me feel doubly bad, then I don't

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Speaker 1: even want to have this conversation with you. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: in the process of that, there's this factor of normalizing

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Speaker 1: whiteness that scholars talk about in terms of how those

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Speaker 1: racial and ethnic lampooning costumes only reinforce inaccurate ideas about

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Speaker 1: totally distinct racial and cultural communities because you are boiling

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Speaker 1: down all of the different variations or different ethnicities, different languages,

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Speaker 1: different traditions into one hilariously stereotypical costume. Yeah, and you're

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Speaker 1: just pretending that real people are fictional characters. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing to dress up like a person, like

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Speaker 1: a politician, like a character out of stories or mythology.

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Speaker 1: It's another thing to dress up as Mexican guy or

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Speaker 1: Geisha girl things like that, because then you are you're

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Speaker 1: taking you know, a whole entire culture with all of

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Speaker 1: its facets and varied elements, and you're reducing it too,

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Speaker 1: Like I said, something kind of cheap and tawdry. And

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Speaker 1: speaking of cheap and tawdry, I hate that we even

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Speaker 1: have to address the fact that black face still happens

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Speaker 1: routinely in Halloween costumes. And please, I really hope that

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Speaker 1: there isn't a listener out there who thinks that, oh

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe is that okay? Is that just? I mean,

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Speaker 1: come on, that's okay? Right now? We've all seen that

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Speaker 1: Designing Women episode, right which one is that? Just me?

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Speaker 1: The Designing Women episode where they want to I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's a charity function, but the girls want

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Speaker 1: to perform at a at a charity event maybe and

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Speaker 1: they're going to perform as the Supremes. Well, so they

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Speaker 1: decide to just dress up in the fancy glittery gowns

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Speaker 1: with feather bows or whatever. But Delta Berk's character gets

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Speaker 1: it into her head that she is going to wear

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Speaker 1: black face, and they won't let her on stage because

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Speaker 1: because that's horrible, because that's ridiculous. Yeah. David Leonard, who

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Speaker 1: is the associate professor and chair of the Department of

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Speaker 1: Critical Culture and Gender and Race Studies at Washington State University,

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Speaker 1: said that black faces quote a part of history of demonization, mothering,

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Speaker 1: denying humanity, and imagining blackness through racist caricatures. Just just

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Speaker 1: say no, people, Yeah, and you're not by by dressing

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Speaker 1: up in this way, you're really not honoring anyone. You're

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Speaker 1: not celebrating a culture. You are failing at being ironic.

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Speaker 1: Like none of this, none of this is a joke.

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Speaker 1: But what if someone says, well, hey, listen, my my

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Speaker 1: black friends, don't mind my Indian friends, don't mind my

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Speaker 1: Asian friends. You know, there are people who say that too.

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Speaker 1: Of like they they're not uncomfortable, but you are still

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Speaker 1: dressing up as that character or that person or that

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Speaker 1: cultural stereotype from a position of privilege, a different position,

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Speaker 1: a position of other and so from that position, you

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Speaker 1: are still able to offend a whole of people. Just

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Speaker 1: because your friend, your black friend, or your Asian friend,

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Speaker 1: or whoever says that they're not bothered by it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that a whole host of others are not. Well.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like, in the same way that wearing

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Speaker 1: those costumes collapses an entire ethnicity into that one stereotype.

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Speaker 1: Relying on maybe that one friend opinion sort of does

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Speaker 1: the same thing of collapsing it all into one person.

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Speaker 1: But it's also convenience. I think it's laziness. I think

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Speaker 1: you know when you say, oh, my one black friend

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Speaker 1: is okay with me wearing black face, I think you

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Speaker 1: know that that's sort of a lazy excuse and a

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Speaker 1: lazy way to, you know, be able to wear this

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Speaker 1: dumb costume that you're committed to wearing for some reason. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I liked how Leonard said that. Listen, we aren't living

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Speaker 1: in some sort of post racial by referendum society because

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Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is, while jokes are great,

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Speaker 1: humor is fantastic, racism is obviously still alive. Well when

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Speaker 1: you look at things like the criminal justice gap, poverty

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Speaker 1: and education gaps, stopping frisk policies, controversy over voter ID laws.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff that has been in the

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Speaker 1: news this past year that's clear evidence that we are

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Speaker 1: not living in some post racial utopia. It would be

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Speaker 1: great if we were, but we aren't. Yeah, we're not.

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Speaker 1: And people are still being judged by the way they look.

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Speaker 1: I mean, a friend of mine was just telling me

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Speaker 1: that his son walked up to the teacher to turn

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Speaker 1: in an assignment early in high school and the teacher

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Speaker 1: looks at him and it's like, oh, well, you don't

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Speaker 1: look like the type to turn in an assignment early. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And my friend and his son are African Americans. So

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Speaker 1: we're definitely not in any sort of safe post racial zone. No.

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Speaker 1: And if you if you want evidence too of that,

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Speaker 1: Chescale is a prominent YouTube vlogger and she did a

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Speaker 1: video on costume fails about this kind of racial and

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Speaker 1: cultural appropriation in costumes. And if you just go on

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Speaker 1: that video and read through the comments section, actually just

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Speaker 1: don't do it. Never read the comment If you have

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Speaker 1: blood pressure issues, don't read the comments. But the evidence

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Speaker 1: is right there in the anger that people have of

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Speaker 1: just watching this one video of someone saying intelligently. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I would really appreciate it if you didn't wear a

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Speaker 1: black face this year. And in addition to for instance,

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Speaker 1: CHS Gale video, there are other people who are starting

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Speaker 1: awareness campaigns about this kind of stuff too, including a

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Speaker 1: group of students at Ohio University. Yeah there. Their group

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Speaker 1: is called Students Teaching against Racism in Society or STARS,

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Speaker 1: and they launched a campaign a few years back called

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Speaker 1: We're a Culture, Not a Costume. You've probably seen these

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Speaker 1: posters around floating around the Internet. You've also probably seen

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Speaker 1: the really jerk g um meme versions making fun of them.

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Speaker 1: But basically it's pictures of kids um from different ethnicities

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Speaker 1: holding pictures or next to pictures of people in costume

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Speaker 1: imitating their ethnicity. So there's an Asian girl next to

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Speaker 1: someone dressed up as a geisha, you know, Or there

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Speaker 1: is an African American girl next to a picture of

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Speaker 1: someone in black face. Yeah, and when I've I first

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Speaker 1: saw these a couple of weeks ago, and they're really

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Speaker 1: powerful because it does put what we're talking to in

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Speaker 1: two visual perspective. But yet again, if you want evidence

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Speaker 1: that there is still a problem, that this is a

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Speaker 1: valid point for us, to talk about, are the those

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Speaker 1: meme responses that blew up in these kids faces where

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Speaker 1: you have, uh, a mocking thing of a picture of

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Speaker 1: a dog next to a costume of a person dressed

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Speaker 1: up like a dog, right right exactly. And uh, writer

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Speaker 1: Whitney over at Auto Straddle talks about this. She is Asian,

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Speaker 1: and she was sort of taken aback, you could say,

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Speaker 1: by the response that these kids got for their campaign.

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Speaker 1: And she discusses what we mentioned earlier, which is that,

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Speaker 1: you know the problem with these racial stereotypes is that you,

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Speaker 1: from a position of privilege and other get to take

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Speaker 1: the costume off and you're not worried so much about

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Speaker 1: you know, stereotypes getting frisked for no reason, things like that,

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Speaker 1: But people who are minorities, ethnic minorities cannot do that.

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Speaker 1: And so she says that the resonance of everything from

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Speaker 1: a geisha to a terrorist stereotype persists long after the

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Speaker 1: end of October, basically saying, and the kids who started this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this poster campaign, we're kind of saying the same thing,

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Speaker 1: which is that every time images like this are perpetuated,

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Speaker 1: you know, people in cartoony geisha costumes, people in black

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Speaker 1: face it perpetuates the day to day stereotypes to the

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Speaker 1: actual humans have to live with, right, And the fact

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Speaker 1: of the matter two is I think you mentioned the

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Speaker 1: word laziness earlier, or it's like saying these kinds of

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Speaker 1: things is not an attempt to take the fun out

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Speaker 1: of Halloween. Halloween is so much fun. Halloween is one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite holidays, even though I usually leave by

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Speaker 1: costumes until the last minute and I end up looking

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Speaker 1: like a hot mess. But that's part of the fun

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Speaker 1: of it. And part of the fun of it too,

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Speaker 1: is trying to be creative because there are so many

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Speaker 1: options out there. Like why you would feel so compelled

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Speaker 1: to have to dress up as a Pocahontas like princess

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Speaker 1: in a buckskin costume? You got it, Halloween express, No,

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Speaker 1: you don't know, you don't have to. Well, I mean exactly,

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Speaker 1: but speaking of the Pocahonas Prince Si, I mean that

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Speaker 1: things like that, costumes like that are a huge, huge

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Speaker 1: market that the sexy lady costumes. You know, everything from

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Speaker 1: the sexy cheeseburger to the sexy nurse. But you also

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Speaker 1: have the double terrible of playing off of racial and

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Speaker 1: ethnic stereotypes. In addition, to sexualizing yourself and sexualizing that

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Speaker 1: entire ethnic group. Um. The geisha again is a perfect example, uh,

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Speaker 1: the Indian princess, And one of these blogs points out

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Speaker 1: the fact that when you dress up like an Indian

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Speaker 1: princess or a sexy Eskimo, you're ignoring the facts of

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Speaker 1: sexual abuse that Native women in America face. One in

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Speaker 1: three are raped, and seventy of the sexual violence against

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Speaker 1: Native American women is by non Native men. So the

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Speaker 1: more you perpetuate these not only sexy stereotypes, but the

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Speaker 1: stereotypes of submissiveness and you know, constant sexual availability, you

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Speaker 1: are not helping matters. Yeah, I mean it's the whole

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Speaker 1: factor of fetishizing the other the exotic. Oh look at

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Speaker 1: these these otherworldly creatures where they just turn in so

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Speaker 1: quickly to objects that you can pursue at your leisure,

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Speaker 1: which is which is not right. Um, But moving away

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Speaker 1: from Halloween a little bit, we've used the term appropriation

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Speaker 1: number of times already. What are we really talking about, though,

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Speaker 1: nuts and bolts wise, when we're talking about appropriation, because

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Speaker 1: this is not just something that happens in the Halloween

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Speaker 1: costumes that we might choose to wear. Well, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: we will talk about what appropriation means on a bigger scale,

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Speaker 1: right when we get back from a quick break, and

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Speaker 1: now back to the podcast where we're talking about cultural

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Speaker 1: appropriation beyond Halloween costumes. Right, So let's look look at

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Speaker 1: the definition from Fordham University law professors Susan Skiffiti, who

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Speaker 1: wrote the book Who Owns Culture, Appropriation and Authenticity in

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Speaker 1: American Law. She says that while it is very complicated

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Speaker 1: and complex, it's basically taking intellectual property, traditional knowledge, cultural expression,

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Speaker 1: or artifacts from someone else's culture without permission. This can

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Speaker 1: include the unauthorized use of another culture's dance, dress, music, language, folklore, cuisine,

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Speaker 1: traditional medicine, religious symbols, et cetera. And she says it's

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Speaker 1: most likely to be harmful when the source community is

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Speaker 1: a minority group that has been oppressed or exploited in

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Speaker 1: other ways, or when the object of appropriation is particularly sensitive,

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Speaker 1: such as sacred objects. And so I know that, she

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Speaker 1: and therefore I just listed a lot of things, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, well, what does I mean? I can't make

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Speaker 1: spaghetti because that's Italian food, right, right? Can't eat? Do?

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Speaker 1: She calm down? A lot of this has to do

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Speaker 1: a lot of this discussion about cultural appropriation and appropriating

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Speaker 1: other people's beliefs, way of dressing, religious items, all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's about respect and it's about the way that you

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Speaker 1: obtain these things and about the way you use them exactly.

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Speaker 1: And joking examples like eating spaghetti, eating sushi, I mean

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Speaker 1: that those are forms of a globalization. And also you

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Speaker 1: could interpret it as well as for appreciating the products

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Speaker 1: of other cultures. Right, Like one of the bloggers that

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Speaker 1: we were reading posted about how she likes dream catchers,

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Speaker 1: Native American dream catchers, and she's fretting because she's like, well,

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Speaker 1: here I am preaching against cultural appropriation, but am I

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Speaker 1: appropriating them? And she talked to some sociologists, she talked

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Speaker 1: to some actual members of the Native American community, and

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Speaker 1: they hammered home that whole idea of how are you

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Speaker 1: using it? Is it in a respect way? Do you

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Speaker 1: understand when you purchase a Native made item from a

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Speaker 1: Native American individual, do you understand the culture behind it?

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Speaker 1: Do you respect it? Do you appreciate it? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not like it's different if you're urban outfitters

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Speaker 1: and their Navajo underwear exactly. And this comes up a

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Speaker 1: lot in fashion and in trends, and in how a

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Speaker 1: company like in urban outfitters might pluck from a culture,

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Speaker 1: from their handiwork, from their their crafts that they have

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Speaker 1: developed painstakingly, and then slap it on a T shirt

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Speaker 1: and sell it to a bunch of white kids for

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Speaker 1: way too much money. Right, But there's also a difference

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Speaker 1: too between this appropriation and also mythology, and this is

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Speaker 1: something that might be more tied to the Halloween aspect. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, speaking of I mean white kids, I'm

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Speaker 1: not you know, we're not trying to make anybody feel

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Speaker 1: bad about being white necessarily. It's just that white quote

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Speaker 1: unquote white Caucasian ends. Uh, we are the dominant culture here.

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Speaker 1: White people, white Europeans came to this country, We colonized

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Speaker 1: this country and pretty much forced our culture onto everyone else.

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Speaker 1: So is it too much to ask for a little

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Speaker 1: cultural sensitivity? Yeah, I mean, and also in the process

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Speaker 1: obviously of colonizing this country, there was a bit of

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Speaker 1: genocide involved in that. And in the words of my

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Speaker 1: culture is not a trend tumbler. You can't appropriate the dominant,

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Speaker 1: especially if it was forced upon you. The term just

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Speaker 1: doesn't apply because of the power imbalance. Yeah, so that's

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Speaker 1: an answer to, well, what about if you're appropriating my whiteness, like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe you shouldn't wear polo shirts and it's

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Speaker 1: like all right, y'all. But there was um one thing

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Speaker 1: that came up in the discussion of Halloween costumes of

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Speaker 1: the white trash stereotype, which I say is also no, oh,

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Speaker 1: don't do that. You're also, I mean, you're saying hideous

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Speaker 1: statements about other people as well who are of a

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Speaker 1: different socioeconomic status or Southern just Southern in general. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you how often, as someone who grew

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Speaker 1: up in the South lives in the South, still, I'm

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Speaker 1: commonly frustrated by portrayals of Southern people. It is frustrating

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Speaker 1: to see often Hollywood portrayals of being Southern, or Halloween

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Speaker 1: portrayals of being Southern as being incredibly stereotypical, as if

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Speaker 1: we're all just in breeding idiots for lack of a

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Speaker 1: better phrasing, not not eloquent podcast ors as some of

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Speaker 1: us all. You know, But what are a few non

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Speaker 1: Halloween examples of appropriation, just to just to round out

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Speaker 1: this podcast, Caroline, Yeah, well, I mean we did dig

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Speaker 1: up a lot of great examples of terrible stuff when

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Speaker 1: looking at Native American cultural appropriation. One huge when they

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Speaker 1: got a lot of attention in a really weak, pointless,

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Speaker 1: stupid apology was when Carly Class walked down the Victoria's

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Speaker 1: Secret runway wearing a massive headdress. Yeah. Over the Native

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Speaker 1: Appropriations blog, Adrian K writes that playing Indian has a

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Speaker 1: long history in the United States, all the way back

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Speaker 1: to those original tea partiers in Boston, and in no

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Speaker 1: way is it better than minstrel shows or dressing up

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Speaker 1: in blackface. You're collapsing distinct cultures and doing so, you're

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Speaker 1: asserting your power over them. It's that power issue over

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Speaker 1: and over and over again. And laziness too, because you're

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Speaker 1: showing you don't care. Right You're you're wearing this headdress

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Speaker 1: which is traditional you know, regalia in various cultures that

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Speaker 1: are foreign to you, and you're just showing that you

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Speaker 1: don't really care about it. And then Victorious Acrew was

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Speaker 1: an offender yet again with its Go East lingerie line

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Speaker 1: that it came out with I think a couple of

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Speaker 1: years back, and it portrayed one blonde, busty model in

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Speaker 1: its Geisha teddy and she had a little fan and

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Speaker 1: everything as well, and it was quickly removed from the

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Speaker 1: website because as soon as some Asian bloggers picked up

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Speaker 1: on it and expressed some outrage, Victoria's Secret yet again

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Speaker 1: tried to cover up their trail. And I'm not anti underwear.

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Speaker 1: And someone else who was definitely not anti underwear was

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Speaker 1: one of the commenters under the story about this Go

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Speaker 1: East sexy Geisha underwear. This guy was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: all these people have been saying, oh, you're too politically correct,

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Speaker 1: you know, get off of it. You're too sensitive. And

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Speaker 1: this guy comes on and he's like, you think he's

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Speaker 1: about to defend the blogger for for thinking the costumes terrible,

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Speaker 1: but instead his comment is like, well, I, for one,

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Speaker 1: when I see a Geisha costume, fully expect to see

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Speaker 1: an Asian woman. Come on, who wants to see a

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Speaker 1: blonde woman in a Geisha costume? And you're like, my brain,

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Speaker 1: it is breaking. And it broke Nina Jacento's brain over

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Speaker 1: at racial issues as well. She said that it's just

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Speaker 1: another example of taking a culture and stripping it of

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Speaker 1: its realness in order to fulfill fantasies of a safe

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Speaker 1: and non threatening, mysterious East and similarly to that point

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Speaker 1: on native appreparations about playing Indian in its long history

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Speaker 1: of another fashion blogger and Cornell University academic, min Ha

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Speaker 1: fam said that playing Oriental in quotes, can be traced

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Speaker 1: back to nineteen hundreds vaudeville stages. We're playing out fantasies

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Speaker 1: of racial exoticism as a way of dealing with racial

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Speaker 1: anxieties was a wildly popular cultural activity. And she also

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Speaker 1: is one of these people who says, and also it's

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Speaker 1: just a glaring example of laziness. Is this really what doing?

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Speaker 1: You know? We have all these resources, all this creativity,

425
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: all these cool things that we could be doing. Are

426
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: we really just going to harp on that? Yeah? I

427
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: I do think. I do think it's a good point

428
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: to bring up that it really is dealing with anxieties

429
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: and making something that you don't know about completely one dimensional. Yeah, completely,

430
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: not only taking away its otherness and installing this like

431
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: exoticism onto it, but just not even trying. I mean,

432
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: correct me, listeners if I'm wrong, And you have done

433
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: a lot of research about Geisha culture or or any

434
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: other culture out there, but it does seem to be

435
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: a lazy form of entertainment for privileged people who think

436
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: that because they are in a position of power and

437
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: that we are in some sort of post racial utopia,

438
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: that they can just dress up in black face or

439
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: a Geisha costume and call it a day. And let

440
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: me under score the fact that we are not anti

441
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: sexy costume in this podcast. This has nothing to do

442
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: with the amount of skin that you want to show

443
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: on Halloween. If you want to be a sexy hamburg

444
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: you be that sexy Hamburger. But rather, if you are

445
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: thinking about pretending to be someone from another ethnicity, I

446
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: think twice, please, Well, do you know what you're gonna

447
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: be for Halloween? I think I am going to be

448
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg because I have everything

449
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: I need for it. I think I am going to

450
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: be a silent movie star. Yeah. I really liked your

451
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: idea for that. And you don't have to talk to

452
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: anyone all night if you don't just hold up cue

453
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: cards that say give me another Vodkatonic exactly. And if

454
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: you are looking for Halloween costumes, I am going to

455
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: shamelessly plug the stuff mon never told you. Video five

456
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: having as Halloween costume ideas that does include my Ruth

457
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: Bader Ginsburg, which you've seen the picture Caroline fantastic. It's

458
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: pretty good, I gotta say so. You can head over

459
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: to YouTube dot com slash stuff Mom Never told You

460
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: and check that out. And we want to hear what

461
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: you're gonna be for Halloween as well, and what you

462
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: think about our conversation about racial appropriation and Halloween. And

463
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this after Halloween and you saw

464
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: some horrible violations of everything we've been talking about, let

465
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: it all out to us Vent mom Stuff at Discovery

466
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: dot com, or you can also head over to Facebook

467
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: or tweet us set Mom's Stuff podcasts. And we got

468
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: a couple of letters to share with you when we

469
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: come right back from a quick break and now back

470
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: to our letters. So I've got a let her here

471
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 1: from Heather about endometriosis podcasts, and she writes, when I

472
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: was thirty three, I began to experience intense pain during

473
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: my menstrual cycle. It was so bad that I would

474
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: feel like I was being stabbed in either my lower

475
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: back or my right lower front, almost like appendicitis. It

476
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: would be so intense that I would get lightheaded and

477
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: feel nauseous or vomit every single month, but I always

478
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: went in for my annual paps, mayors, and pelvic exams,

479
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: and each one would come back with a clean bill

480
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: of health. Even though I was in my early thirties

481
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: not a teenager. My O B G, y N s

482
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: were women, and I knew that there had to be

483
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: more going on than just something I had to live with.

484
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: I didn't push the subject because I figured that they

485
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: were the doctors. They had the degree, so they must

486
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: know what they're talking about, and continued suffering for several years.

487
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: Just before my thirty eight birthday, I experienced the worst

488
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: pain I ever felt. The symptoms presented themselves like I

489
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: had appendicitis, and I ended up in the emergency room. Luckily,

490
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: the doctor on call in the er happened to not

491
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: only be an O B G, I M, but actually

492
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: taught other doctor is how to reform laparoscopic hits directomys,

493
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: which I eventually had to have done. Unfortunately, there were

494
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: so many large cysts in both ovaries that she was

495
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: unable to save either. And I have a son, so

496
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: I wasn't concerned about not being able to have another child.

497
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: I later found out that my mom suffered the same

498
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: thing when she was younger, and my only sister ended

499
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: up having the same symptoms later on that I first

500
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: started having when she was around the same age. The

501
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: doctors were trying to pawn it off on her as

502
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: if it was just a painful period or something she

503
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: was going to have to deal with. We need to

504
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: tell women it's okay to raise their voice if they

505
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: don't feel they're being heard. While doctors do have the degrees,

506
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: we know what is normal and not normal when it

507
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: comes to our bodies. Also, just because your doctor has

508
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: ovaries doesn't mean they're better at their job than someone

509
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: who doesn't. All my doctors were women, and they all

510
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: told me the same thing until I ended up in

511
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: the e er. Keep up the good work, ladies. Well

512
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: thanks Heather, and here's wishing you good health. And I

513
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: have a letter here from Meg also about our endometrius.

514
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: This episode, she says, I'm twenty years old and have

515
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: been suffering from chronic period pain and horrific PMS symptoms

516
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: for the last ten years. Ever since I got my

517
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: first period at age ten, being on the pill for

518
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: about nine years and trying to manage these symptoms. Like

519
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: many young women, I was too embarrassed to talk to

520
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: my doctor about just how bad it was until about

521
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: five years ago. Despite having been seen by a gynecologist

522
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: for many years prior, I was only diagnosed by accident

523
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: while having a lapper scopy. This was five years ago,

524
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: and because of my age, the doctors were hesitant to

525
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 1: operate on me for the indometriosis. We tried managing it

526
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: with stronger doss at the pill and dietary changes. However,

527
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: my symptoms got so bad that the specialist told me

528
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: it was time to operate. This time last year, I

529
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: had my surgery, and when I came to after my operation,

530
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: my doctor informed me that it was far worse than

531
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: he thought it would be. You are a nineteen year

532
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: old woman with endometriosis, worse than I've seen in any

533
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: of my forty year old patients, he said. I am

534
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: now a year down the track and still managing these

535
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: horrific symptoms with only the pill. In a few weeks,

536
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: I'm going back to plead my case to be fitted

537
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: with an i U D in the hopes that this

538
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: will prevent any further damage and hopefully preserve what little

539
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: chance I have left of being fertile. Well, thank you

540
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: Meg for sharing your story, and I also wish you

541
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: the best of luck with your health journey. And thanks

542
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: to everybody who's written in mom Stuff at Discovery dot

543
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: com is where you can send your letters. You can

544
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: also follow us on Facebook and on Twitter at mom

545
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast, and you can also follow us on Instagram

546
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: at stuff mom Never Told You. And you'll want to

547
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: be sure to start following us because Caroline and I

548
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: will be posting photos of our Halloween costumes there. And

549
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: of course don't forget to head on over to YouTube

550
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: and check out our channel where at YouTube dot com

551
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: slash stuff mom Never Told You, And don't forget to

552
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics.

553
00:34:51,680 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com? No,