1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg IHOD podcast, and 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News. 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, December four. Hey, everybody, quick housekeeping notes. This 4 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: episode was recorded before Sam bankman Fried was arrested in 5 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: the Bahamas earlier this week. SPF, as he's known, has 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: now been charged by pretty much everyone, including the Securities 7 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: and Exchange Commission and the Department of Justice, on allegations 8 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: of everything from defrauding investors to com England customer funds. 9 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: While the following episode unpacks the year's biggest stories, I 10 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: would be remiss not to admit that this is perhaps 11 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: the biggest of them all. We'll be covering spfs arrest 12 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: and these charges against him in much more detail in 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: other episodes this week. Thanks for tuning in. It's safe 14 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: to say two wasn't the best year the crypto. By 15 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: late January, bitcoin had already shed half its value compares 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: to the old times high set previously in November, and 17 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: that number, if you remember, was nearly sixty dollars. Bitcoin 18 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: prices then stayed on a downward trend. That trend accelerated 19 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: after the first major crisis of the collapse of an 20 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: algorithmic stable coin called terra USD. Now, the implosion of 21 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: what was once considered an ambitious experiment for defy sent 22 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: shock waves through the industry, triggering the collapse of a 23 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: crypto hedphone called Three Arrows Capital, which then led to 24 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: bankruptcies that companies called Voyage of Digital and Celsius, and frankly, 25 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: it was starting to feel a little bit like the 26 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: Hunger Games. Crypto CEOs and other senior executives racing for 27 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: the exit, true believers getting into Twitter fights about whether 28 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: centralization was the real enemy, all against this weird backdrop 29 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: of conferences and parties where people were trying to rekindle 30 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: enthusiasm for their board actions. It was a weird time. 31 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: And then, most recently, and for a lot of us, 32 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: most surprisingly, you had the collapse of one of the 33 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: most significant crypto exchanges in the sector FTX. Quite the 34 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: air has not even done here to break down the 35 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: year's biggest stories with me are Bloomberg Reports, has Voldona Hark. 36 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: Crypto people like the idea of becoming more mainstream or 37 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: just being able to be part of your everyday conversation 38 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,279 Speaker 1: and Emilina Cole high yields that Crypto had been advertising 39 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: during this period of low interest rates in the real 40 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: real world to entire small people into the system. Those 41 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: frequently and in a big ways, started to show cracks. 42 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: Emily Voldona, what a pleasure to have you on the show. 43 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having us. Emily. Can you 44 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: just remind everybody what your actual job is, because I 45 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 1: feel like it's it's a little complicated. Yeah, so I'm 46 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: technically the Bloomberg Crypto blogger, which is a real nice phrase, 47 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: but it basically means that, in addition to doing news 48 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: coverage on Crypto, a lot of what I do is 49 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: analysis in terms of exactly helping we just understand what 50 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: happened in this year, in particular what went wrong um 51 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: and who the players were and how that might all 52 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: be interlinked across the whole year. Basically reminding you about, 53 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: like here's the big news today and here's what you've 54 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: forgotten already happened. That should give you all the context. 55 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: Good Please remind me. But Vildonna, welcome back. What do 56 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: you do? I love to be on this podcast specifically, 57 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: that's my main job now. I'm actually a cross asset reporter, 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: which when I tell people that, they always say, what 59 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: are cross assets? And I don't have a very good 60 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: answer except that we cover all kinds of markets, including 61 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: for me, the crypto market, which has been actually very 62 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: fun and very rewarding over the last four or five 63 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: years or so, because the stuff that happened in stin 64 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: crypto is sometimes so much wilder than anything you can 65 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: find in the stock market or the bond market, and 66 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: it's sometimes very painful to go through, obviously for a 67 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: lot of people, but it's been very very rewarding to 68 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: be covering and writing stories about. And you say this 69 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: as a person who's covered some wild rides in stocks 70 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: and bonds. Right, So, and one of the things that 71 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: we're going to do in this episode is talking a 72 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: little bit about what was happening in crypto and how 73 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: that was informed by that broader macro context. But first, 74 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: let's do some like do Do Do Do Do? Go 75 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: Back in Time music. That's a really good soundtrack. Our 76 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: sound engine is gonna be mad at me, but let's 77 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: go back in time. Because I feel like to start 78 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: and to talk about what happened, we have to go 79 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: back and specifically, we need to go back to the 80 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,119 Speaker 1: coin base i p Yes, what was going on around 81 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: the time of the coin based i pod we thought 82 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: twin twenty two years. Wild one also was very wild 83 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: because we had just from the pandemic a huge stock 84 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: market rally. We had prices of all manner of crypto things, 85 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: including n f T s and stuff that we had 86 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: never heard of before, skyrocketing in value. Everybody had laser 87 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: eyes on their Twitter profiles, which they've since removed. And 88 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: with the around the coin based i p O, I mean, 89 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: there was just a lot of excitement around it's coming 90 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: out to the public, so to say, it was just 91 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: very exciting for a lot of crypto people because crypto 92 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: people like the idea of becoming more mainstream or just 93 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: being able to be part of your everyday conversation. And 94 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: coin base and obviously a lot of other developments sort 95 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: of helped that. But we we had very low interest 96 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: rates and there was just a lot of speculation, a 97 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: lot of froth, game stop and all of those sort 98 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: of meme stocks. Everything was skyrocketing, including so much stuff 99 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: in crypto mm hmm. And that was you know, April, 100 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: there was a sense of optimism. Yes to the moon. 101 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: We were like, this is everything is going great, you know. 102 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: Fast forward a couple of months or several months to September, 103 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: El Salvador starts accepting bitcoin as legal tender. More enthusiasm, 104 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, the folks who were looking at bitcoin like, 105 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: here's the first best example of an actual government, you know, 106 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: a country taking this token seriously. Fast forward another couple 107 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: of months, you have, as you mentioned, the hype around 108 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: non fungible tokens culminated in every celebrity going on whatever 109 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: nightly talk shows talking about how amazing their Ugo Labs 110 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: board ape situation is. We get to November, bitcoin hits 111 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: an all time high. Yeah, and there was one more 112 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: important thing that happened around then. In October, we had 113 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: the first bitcoin futures et F and actually there are 114 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: a couple of them, but when the first one debuted 115 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: by pro Shares, it saw so much trade eating that 116 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: it was just like for the record books basically, and 117 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: it amassed more than a billion dollars in assets in 118 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: two days, which was also a record. So that also 119 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: was you know, Bitcoin's price was hitting record highs around 120 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: that time, and then in the weeks following it kept 121 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: sort of hitting those highs until we got the almost 122 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: sixty nine thou per coin number. So we're going into December. 123 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: Everything in crypto is amazing, amazing crypto and the booming 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: interesting look at bitcoins as well in the cryptocurrency space. 125 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: Of course, this weekend, Emily, everyone paying attention to the 126 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: Super Bowl. It's super Bowl. One of the things that 127 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: was remarkable is on hindsight is everything, but it was, 128 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: you know, people were spending millions and millions of dollars 129 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: on really splashy crypto advertising and the Super Bowl. Even 130 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: if you don't care about football, American football specifically is 131 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: a vehicle for kind of cultural commentary around ads, marketing, branding, sponsorship, 132 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: and so much of that commentary was around crypto. Emily. 133 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: What happened right after that in March, I think probably 134 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: the biggest thing that happened that month was the hack 135 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: of a bridge connected to tax the Infinity, which was 136 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: responsible for making sure that all the people who played 137 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: Acts the Infinity, the boxing game could cash out their 138 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: earnings because it was at that time very popular among 139 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: people in lower income countries for earning a living, and 140 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: for a long time they couldn't get any of their 141 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: money back. So that was the first I suppose ding 142 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: on sentiment right, but it was because it was the first, 143 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't the worst. There was a sense of that 144 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: seems bad. There's always stuff like that happening exactly, you know, 145 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: it's like, well, yeah, it's a crypto hack. It's not ideal, 146 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: but we'll we'll get through it. Then we started to 147 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: have to know what an algorithmic stable coin is, and 148 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: specifically terror u s D and its associated token Lunar 149 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: terror USD and its sister token Luna lost their peg 150 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: to the dollar in the last few weeks. They had 151 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: a spectacular meltdown, sending prices to near zero and their 152 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: market value to a shadow of the combined Emily, why 153 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: did so many folks need to care about that? So, 154 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: Tara USC and Luna had been kind of the darlings 155 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: of the defise sector for quite a few months eating 156 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: up to that point, um there had been quite a 157 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: lot of noise going around about about Tara and Luna. Specifically, 158 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: Galaxy Digitals billion I CEO Michael Neverbrat's got famously got 159 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: a tattoo of a lunar wolf to show how much 160 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: he cared about the cryptocurrency, and so when the two 161 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: collapsed together in the space about a week, wiping about 162 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: forty billion dollars in value, this was a sign that 163 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: actually something in the market infrastructure in the way that 164 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: crypto was being sold to people, as this like solve 165 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: all magical financial instrument, was not okay, and not everything 166 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: was was going to be living up to the promises 167 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: that had been touted by its founders. So Terra as 168 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: an indicator of sentiment was a huge deal, But it 169 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: was also a huge deal in terms of the actual 170 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: market consequences that accrued as this thing started to collapse, 171 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: because it turned out, as we have reported, some of 172 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: the biggest and supposedly smartest players in crypto were very 173 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: very exposed to either the Terry USD stable coin itself, 174 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: to other people who were exposed to the terror USD 175 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: stable coin. Filed on and talk a little bit about 176 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: what it was like watching the collapse happen. After that, well, 177 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: two things. Just one thing to just set the scene 178 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: a little bit more. What we have happening this year, obviously, 179 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: is the FED was raising interest rates, and that's really 180 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: sort of put a damper on sentiment, not just in crypto, 181 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: but also in the stock market. The bond market also 182 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: wasn't doing well at all during and so you had 183 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: just people being very risk averse all year long, and 184 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: that in particular, I would say, hit cryptocurrencies and all 185 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: manner of cryptocurrencies and all manner of crypto offshoots and 186 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: you know whatever else. And f t S also dropped, 187 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: I mean plummeted in in value. But to to your 188 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: point about the interconnectedness and the big players that have 189 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: been involved, these are people who had huge followings on Twitter, 190 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: where a lot of crypto discourse happens, and they tweeted 191 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: quite a bit about all kinds of stuff, sometimes sometimes 192 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: at each other, and sort of started these feuds, which 193 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure we will talk a little bit more about 194 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: as regards f t X, But it sort of just 195 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: started showing people just how interconnected all of these different 196 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: companies were. Who was loaning money to whom, vice versa, 197 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: who was buying what, And then once one sort of 198 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: block in the domino fell, how it started impacting all 199 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: sorts of other companies and everything was just very to Wolf, 200 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: I can't believe you didn't go for one block in 201 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: the chain, Oh gosh, this opportunity. Gosh, I'll kick myself 202 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: forever for that. Up next, more from Bloomberg reporters Voldana 203 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: Harrig and Emily Nicole on the year's biggest headlines and 204 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: what all of this news could mean for three We'll 205 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: be right back, so, Emily, you know, to to Vldona's points, 206 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: you have this interconnected web of relationships, many of whom 207 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: are people who actively hate each other. What does that 208 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: have to do with three Hours Capital? They had made 209 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: some rather sizeable bets when it came to Tara and Luna. 210 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: So when the value of those holdings went to zero, um, 211 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: the loans that have been extended to three Hours Capital, 212 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: with which it made most of its trading, they were 213 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: no longer able to meet those loans, and so when 214 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: the margin calls came in, everything just basically collapsed and 215 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: and that went down too. But being a hedge fund 216 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: of thoughts at three hours Capital had clients. Many firms 217 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: had either lended loan money to three hours or had 218 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: invested in it. And so therefore, as fil Downa described 219 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: it as dominos, those sides fall too, and we get 220 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: to now see the beginnings of this ripple effect that 221 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: spreads out from almost like terrors the start of it, 222 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: although obviously the market had already started to show signs 223 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: of weakness before then. But as we go further and 224 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: further out, even as far as like this month alone, 225 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: we still have people saying, oh, and the knock on 226 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: the market that happened with Terror is the reason why 227 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: we have losses today. Um, and that slowly started the 228 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: web of bankruptcies that we're currently in. And when you 229 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: talk about things like margin calls, counterparties, what you're describing 230 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 1: is the fact that so many of these players all 231 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: each other money. So you know, you could be hedge 232 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: fund and you borrow money from this lender over here 233 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: in order to do a trade on this other thing 234 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: over here, and in order to do a trade on 235 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: that thing, you had to put up some collateral. So 236 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: Three Arrows Falls files for bankruptcy in their week. A 237 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: couple of other companies, one called Voyager, one called Celsius 238 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: also file for bankruptcy, Celsius being perhaps the most consumer 239 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: facing of the entities that have been caught up in 240 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: this so far, because well, what was the Celsius business model? 241 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: What did they do? So Celsius was in the business 242 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: of giving people yields if you promised to lock up 243 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: your tokens with them. So if you think about it 244 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: a little bit like a savings account, but you know, 245 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: just without any of the banking licenses or regulators or 246 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: any of the bits to protect you if the company 247 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: goes under UM. And what it turned out is that 248 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: if people had read the terms of service, they would 249 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: have seen that. And actually this is pretty common and 250 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: a lot of crypto company's terms of service as we 251 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: now know UM. If you gave your assets to Celsius, 252 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: Celsius reserve the right to do or whatever it wanted 253 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: with those assets. They no longer really belonged to you 254 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: in any sense of the word. So when what they 255 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: had done in order to generate those yields that it 256 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: could pay back out was invest those tokens elsewhere rehypothication UM. 257 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: And as a result, if some of that went in lunar, 258 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: that all went. If some of it went in something 259 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: that was called staked ether um, that also started to 260 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: show slight signs of discount from the price of main 261 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: Either I won't get into the actual mechanics of it, 262 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: but basically that was unstable too UM. And so Eventually, 263 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: the high yields that crypto had been advertising during this 264 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: period of low interest rates in the real real world 265 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: to entire small people into the system, those frequently and 266 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: in big ways started to show cracks and signs of 267 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: that they weren't able to sustain offering those yields anymore. 268 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: And now if you see platforms offering yields of I mean, 269 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: eight percent is probably about the average now, but back 270 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: then it was um that's also a massive warning sign 271 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: to consumers that this is probably not something that can 272 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: guarantee that yield for very long. And was on this 273 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: how does this fit into the rising interest rate environment 274 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: that you described? Well, I think from because I talked 275 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: to a lot of rad five people, traditional finance people too, 276 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: and all along what they sort of as onlookers into 277 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: the crypto world had been saying is these are warning signs. 278 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: You can't just earn eight, ten, twenty percent just lending 279 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: out your crypto holdings, that we're putting your money in 280 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: some of these bank like products without there being just 281 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: so much risk involved. And this sort of kept playing 282 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: out throughout the year. So we we saw it with 283 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: Celsius and Voyager. Obviously, both of them going under, but 284 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: then also later on with Gemini, and that also was 285 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: a yield earning product where people had put in bitcoin 286 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: or ether or some sort of stable coin and then 287 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: the gem it was called Gemini earned, Gemini earned, would 288 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: lend out those holdings and try to earn an interest 289 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: in return for themselves. And those also have the withdrawals 290 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: have been halted and book can't get their money back. 291 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: So another example of the ways in which the main 292 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: streaming of crypto that you referred to at the beginning 293 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: turned out to have pretty serious consequences for people in 294 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: ways that they weren't necessarily expecting or hoping for. Now, 295 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: in around October two, you know, a couple of months 296 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: after these various thirty years ago, after these bankruptcies start 297 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 1: getting filed, we published a story about the wave of 298 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: high ranking you know, executive suite departures. Vasan, I don't 299 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: even know if you even remember, but you were like 300 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: one of the people who wrote the story because like 301 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: dozens of whether they are crypto CEUs or people in 302 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: risk or heads of trading were either being downsized, right, 303 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: so there were layoffs and they were part of them, 304 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: or they were like I'm gonna go spend some more 305 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: time with my yacht. YEP, that is a real thing 306 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: that I would love to not making that up. So, 307 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 1: you know, you start to see this um sinking ship 308 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: feeling sentiments and that that in and of itself. People 309 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: are looking around and they're like, hang on a minute, 310 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: why are all these people losing their jobs? Why are 311 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: all these people quitting? There were very, very significantly off 312 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: at a lot of places. And then less than a 313 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: month later is when we perhaps get into the part 314 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: of the crisis that I'm not sure most people would 315 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: have said, this is the next shoe to drop, and 316 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: that shoe was the collapse of f t X and 317 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: it's CEO and it's CEO Sam Bankman freed emily. If 318 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: it were possible to summarize the state of things about 319 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: how we got there, what would you say? So hind signe. 320 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: So now my explanation will be covered by the facts 321 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: that we know now compared to what we knew before. 322 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: F t X had its own native token called ftt 323 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: and it appears that f t X belong with its 324 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: sister trade platform, Alameda Research had been using that token 325 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,239 Speaker 1: for various purposes, but mainly one of those was at 326 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: least at Alameda as collateral for loans that it had 327 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: taken out to fund its trading activities. There are also 328 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: some suggestions now and these are being investigated to the 329 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: present as to whether or not f t X commingled 330 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: customer assets with Alameda assets not to be able to 331 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,239 Speaker 1: fund some of these trades as well. Um But in 332 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: October some of this information was leaked into the press, 333 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: and Finances CEO shangqung Zhao said that he would sell 334 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: a very large portion of FTT because Finance was concerned 335 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: about how how stable that business was. And from there 336 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: it took oh, i'd say less than two days until 337 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: ft X then said okay, we are selling ourselves to Finance, 338 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: and then less than twenty four hours again until Finance 339 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: said sorry, no, we don't want that deal, and then 340 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: another another twenty rouse until Alamidas Sam bankmin Freed said 341 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: Alameda would wind itself down, and then another twenty four 342 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: hours until FTX was in bankruptcy. So between Sunday and Friday, 343 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: one of the largest crypto exchanges that we have was gone. 344 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: In other words, thirty years went by. That was during 345 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: that week. That was quite a week. That was quite 346 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: a week. And you know, the thing, just the gloss 347 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: I want to put on top of all of this 348 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: is like, while all of this was happening, everything that 349 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: we've just described, bank when Freed had been playing the 350 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: part of rescuer in chief, right, So when the collapse 351 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: of three Hourrows triggered the collapse of Celsius and Voyager 352 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,239 Speaker 1: and other companies, bankman Freed emerge and he's like, I 353 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 1: will buy everyone, or at least you know, he will 354 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: buy the ones that he could Abriese financing for and 355 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: be he thought was worth his and f t X 356 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: as time. This was also a period in which there 357 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: were intensive discussions around the world about how best to 358 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: regulate crypto, and various crypto ceo saying all we want 359 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: is notory clarity. Please give that to us. Here. We've 360 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: written you proposals, so you know of which exactly of 361 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: which Sam was the face. You know, obviously you also 362 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: had Brian Armstrong coin Base CEO being you know, represented 363 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: in these conversations, and in the US, you have um 364 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: CC of Finance being represented not in the US, but 365 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: certainly in conversations and many other countries around the world. 366 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: And now it's almost as if none of that happened. 367 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: I think that the sort of the strangest thing about 368 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: twenty two. It's not even that we're back where we're started. 369 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: It's like we're back into before the coin base. I P. Well, one, 370 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: there's a lack of liquidity, Like the amount of trading 371 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: that's happening in crypto has essentially fallen off a cliff, 372 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: partly because some of the places people were trading on 373 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: went bust. There is a real noticeable, shall we say, 374 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: vibe shift in the sentiment for an industry that not 375 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: super long ago was having debauched parties in Miami and 376 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: now they're worrying about being summoned in front of you 377 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: senators and other types of investigators. And we have a 378 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: definite change and tenor of the regulatory conversation because it's 379 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: gone from how can we help this industry to succeed 380 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: to how can we protect consumers? Emily, I want to 381 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: make sure that you know, we don't only talk about 382 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: what's been happening in the US. Tell us a little 383 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: bit about how some of these things played out in 384 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: the UK and Europe. Let's start with Europe because that's 385 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: the that's a little bit easier. The European Union has 386 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: been working on a comprehensive crypto regime for a long time, 387 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: and that was partly the the criticism of the EU 388 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: earlier this year was that it had taken them so 389 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: long to get here UM. But in June they agreed 390 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: the provisional steps for MIKA as it's known UM that 391 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: would put in place some level of oversight of crypto 392 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: companies and maybe a little bit of protection for for 393 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: consumers in terms of just helping make sure that companies 394 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: do as they say they do and are overseen properly 395 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: by local regulators. UM. There are things that are not 396 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: included in there, which were some of the things that 397 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: went wrong this year, like defy and staking and particular 398 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: types of crypto assets, and so that will all have 399 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: to come later, but the basics right UM, and that 400 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: is due to be going through final agreement in February 401 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: and come into force in mid four In the UK. However, 402 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: there was some echoing at the start of this year 403 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: about how, yes, crypto is going through a rough patch, 404 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: but you know there's there's still a dream to be had. UM. 405 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: So we're going to become a global crypto hub and 406 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: this was all in April under the chancellor at the time, 407 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: Rasci Studac, and probably thereafter Rashi Sack resigned because there 408 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: was a very big political the government collapse. I'm trying 409 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: to be polite about it, but basically we had no 410 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: government for most of the summer UM and that meant 411 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: that everything that had been suggested up until that point 412 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: in terms of crypto regulations, so that's things like putting 413 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 1: in place an oversight regime, UM, financial promotions rules, all 414 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: of that got kicked to the side, including an n 415 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: f T made our Royal mint who make our money UM. 416 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: And it's only now in November December time that we 417 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: are starting to get back on track with the government 418 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: that's in place, who looks to be staying around for 419 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: more than forty four days, where we might be starting 420 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: to push ahead with some of that. So by the 421 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: time this episode goes out, there will have been discussions 422 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: in Parliament about the Financial Services a Market's Bill, which 423 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: will put in place powers for our regulator to start 424 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: thinking about how it can properly overseecrypto companies more than 425 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: just checking they're not terrorist financing. And and next year 426 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: we will start getting proposes as well on stable coins 427 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: and other bits. But that's where we're at. We'll be 428 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: right back. The question that everybody asks me when they 429 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: extract the information that I cover crypto for a living 430 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: is like, what's going to happen next? My my go 431 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: to answer is if I knew that I would work 432 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: for a hedge fund exactly, we'd also be parting on 433 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: a yacht for sure, um in the Bahamas with everybody 434 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: else who's parting on the yachts before those yachts get 435 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: seized by the US government of the Singapore in the 436 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: But I do think it is it is reasonable and 437 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: Volton I will asked this, have you've just given the 438 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: work that you do on the Crossassa team, what are 439 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: like the big macro economic things that are on the 440 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: horizon ine that may inform, if nothing else at least 441 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: the overall market environment that crypto folks are about to encounter. 442 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: Well for a long time, and we've talked about this 443 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: before in this podcast, crypto and stocks basically traded the 444 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: same way, So if one went up one day, likely 445 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: the other one was also going up and vice versa, 446 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: and the correlation was extremely high, and people basically talked 447 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: about is about this all all year long, and then 448 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: what has happened with f t X and the aftermath 449 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: of that is that those correlations actually became a bit uncoupled, 450 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: so they're not necessarily eating in the same way. They're 451 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: not treating in tandem anymore. And the idea is just 452 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: that the trust within crypto has really broken. People just 453 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: have much less faith in the system. They have less 454 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: faith in I mean just about anything within crypto. They're 455 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: just less trustworthy and and potentially like going forward, people 456 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: will once again start thinking about some of the macro 457 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: forces that are impacting both markets, both the stock market 458 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: and the crypto market. But right now it seems to 459 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: be sort of on its own, as everybody's just waiting 460 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: to see what the next thing to happen will be. 461 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: If we do return to this idea that macro forces 462 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: are impacting crypto in the same way that they did 463 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: for most of two then again we'll have to go 464 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 1: back to the FED and what the FED is going 465 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: to be doing, where they've sort of signaled to markets 466 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: that they'll just be less aggressive than they've been earlier 467 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: this year, where they were doing these jumble interest eight hikes, 468 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: and that really was putting a damper on sentiments. So 469 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: if they're less aggressive, potentially you could have riskier assets 470 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: doing a little bit better. But there is so much 471 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: more that people are waiting to unfold it within crypto 472 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: itself that could really impact prices. Still, well, thank you, Emily, 473 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: Thank you Aldana. See you in another thirty years or so. Yeah, 474 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: that sounds great, Thanks so much for having it. You 475 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: can find more of Vildonna and Emily's reporting on the 476 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Terminal and on Bloomberg dot com, and definitely be 477 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: sure to check out for and subscribe to it twice 478 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: weekly news lesso, which is also called Bloomberg Crypto. This 479 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I 480 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio, visit 481 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 482 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or suggestions 483 00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The 484 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergolina. Our senior 485 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 1: producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Farouk and 486 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and Moses 487 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: on them. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original music 488 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Marie schmal We'll be back tomorrow.