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Speaker 1: Rude forms. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails. I'm

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Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on. It is a beautiful day and

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Speaker 2: another great episode of soft Rep Radio and I am

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Speaker 2: your delightful host rad Thank you for tuning in. If

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Speaker 2: you've listened before, thank you for tuning in again. And

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Speaker 2: to those of you who are new, welcome, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the show. But first let me introduce you to Software

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Speaker 2: dot Com Forward slash Merch. So we have a merch store.

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Speaker 2: It helps to keep the fireplace going. That's a real thing.

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Speaker 3: That is gas.

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Speaker 2: I know you want to know I'm hardcore mountain man

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Speaker 2: and I am, but that's gas and that's got a run.

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Speaker 2: like the shirts and the hats and things. We appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Second is our book club, and that is soft Rep

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Speaker 2: dot Com Forward slash book hyphen Club, and we have

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Speaker 2: a curated library of books for you to read through

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Speaker 2: and enjoy. And that's put together by the team here

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Speaker 2: at soft Rep with the guys behind the scenes from

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Speaker 2: the Special Operations community. Now speaking of Special Operations Community.

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Speaker 2: You guys already know who I have because you've clicked

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Speaker 2: on the link to listen to this episode. So without

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Speaker 2: further ado, I have retired Army Cia James stage cool.

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Speaker 2: So welcome to the show.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for inviting me, and it's great to be here

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Speaker 4: and I.

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Speaker 3: Love your intro. Oh thanks.

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Speaker 2: I should also give a shout out to our editor

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Speaker 2: guy who kind of hooked us up and said, rad

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Speaker 2: I want you to meet James and have him on

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Speaker 2: your show. We could talk about, you know, eagle Claw,

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Speaker 2: and I just want to kind of point out something

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Speaker 2: real quick. I had a friend of mine, Colonel Nightingale,

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Speaker 2: on the show. Familiar with Colonel Nightingale.

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Speaker 3: I do know Nightingale.

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Speaker 4: He was working on the Joint staff when when this

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Speaker 4: whole thing went dumb.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so tell me about eagle Claw. For someone who

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Speaker 2: doesn't know too much about Eagle Claw, let's just jump

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Speaker 2: into it and your role in that.

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Speaker 3: Well, as we have a tendency to do.

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Speaker 4: The Americans are spread out all over the world. In

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Speaker 4: nineteen seventy eight seventy nine, Iran, which had been an

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Speaker 4: alias with the Shah of Iran, who we put in

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Speaker 4: the power in nineteen fifty three, decided that they wanted

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Speaker 4: to have a new form of government.

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Speaker 3: A theocrasy.

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Speaker 4: By an Islamic cleric by the name of comite Atola

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Speaker 4: pushed the shop out.

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Speaker 3: The government changed and with the enthusiastic.

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Speaker 4: Non help of the government, the students that ran decided

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Speaker 4: that they were going to punish the United States and

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Speaker 4: they took over the American embassy in Tehran.

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Speaker 3: That was the.

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Speaker 4: Fourth of November nineteen seventy nine, just forty five years ago,

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Speaker 4: at the beginning of last week. So when they took

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Speaker 4: over the embassy, they captured.

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Speaker 3: About sixty Americans.

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Speaker 4: They released all the local nationals who were working there,

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Speaker 4: but they held on to the Americans and basically they held.

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Speaker 3: Them hostage and would not release them.

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Speaker 4: The government would not step in to help us out

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Speaker 4: because they were basically tacitly supporting the studio students. So

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Speaker 4: the president at the time said, well, hell we got

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Speaker 4: we have to get our brethren back. So we began

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Speaker 4: to plan a hostage rescue mission, which was initially called

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Speaker 4: Operation Rice Bowl. In the planning base, they said that

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Speaker 4: was to confuse the enemy, like it was supposed to

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Speaker 4: be in the Far East or something I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: it did. And then it was renamed later on something

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Speaker 4: a bit more aggressive, and it became Operation Eagle Claw.

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Speaker 3: So I think we all know how the story of law,

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Speaker 3: at least part of it.

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Speaker 4: A certain Normy unit downe Fort Bragg was involved. There

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Speaker 4: was a so called open force. The Army rangers were involved,

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Speaker 4: of course, maybe helicopters and Marine Corps pilots, which actually

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Speaker 4: turned out.

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Speaker 3: To be.

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Speaker 4: Probably the weak point in the mission, the Navy helicopters

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Speaker 4: and Marine war bats, but I'll get into that. And

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Speaker 4: then a smaller unit in Germany was involved. It was

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Speaker 4: called Special Forces Forlin. It was a clandestine, a secret

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Speaker 4: special Forces unit. It's covered name was Detachment A Berlin.

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Speaker 4: It's real name was thirty nine Special Forces. And I

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Speaker 4: was part of that unit, and I was there at

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Speaker 4: this time, so it was a very formative part of

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Speaker 4: my career.

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Speaker 3: I've been in the Army for graphs six years when

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Speaker 3: I was into not too long working with a whole

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Speaker 3: bunch of you get.

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Speaker 2: Into really what was the I know you're telling us

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Speaker 2: about that, but how did you wind up getting into

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Speaker 2: Delta in just six years? You know, how old were

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Speaker 2: you when you enlisted?

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Speaker 3: Well, I was not in Delta. I was in Berlin.

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Speaker 2: Excuse me, yes, yeah, uh.

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Speaker 3: That was a long That.

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Speaker 4: Was a long process because it was completely different from

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Speaker 4: all the other units. We did not wear uniforms. We

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Speaker 4: were stationed inside Berlin, inside East Germany.

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Speaker 3: We had to speak a foreign language. I spoke German

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Speaker 3: and some Greek.

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Speaker 4: And it was a unit there was given very specific tasks,

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Speaker 4: both intelligence collection and also the standard and Special forces

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Speaker 4: kind of direct action unconventional warfare missions. So it was

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Speaker 4: a hell of a place to be and I served

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Speaker 4: with probably some of the best people in the army.

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Speaker 4: There a number of Vietnam veterans, a number of former

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Speaker 4: members of Eastern European forces that joined the American military,

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Speaker 4: and some Lajack soldiers if you've heard about them. Just

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Speaker 4: a fantastic place to be. But because the unit had

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Speaker 4: such specialized skills, especially working undercover overseas, the unit was

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Speaker 4: chosen to help out on the Iran mission. So the

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Speaker 4: Iran Mession basically at two parts. One was to go

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Speaker 4: in and pick out and pick the hostages and bring

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Speaker 4: them out.

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Speaker 3: But the first part was a bit more squarely.

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Speaker 4: We had to go in and find out the indeligence

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Speaker 4: needed to pull off that rate, and so members of

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Speaker 4: Detachment they were chosen for that operation. A guy from

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Speaker 4: Delta Force joined them later on, a guy by the

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Speaker 4: name of Richard Meadows. He's quite well known in the

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Speaker 4: Special Forces community. He was also one of the plank

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Speaker 4: holders for Delta Force, underneath Charlie Beckwith And so these

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Speaker 4: guys were the precursor of the operation. And that's really

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Speaker 4: what I write about in my book Mission Iran, of which.

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Speaker 2: Right is your most recent book that you've written. Among

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Speaker 2: all of your books, you have Special Forces Berlin Special

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Speaker 2: operations in World War Two, you know Mission Iran, which

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Speaker 2: is going on right now. And like you said, you know,

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Speaker 2: everybody was kind of enjoying the discotheque of the seventies

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Speaker 2: in Iran. Everybody was having a good time and that

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Speaker 2: was happening right There's like video of what was before

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Speaker 2: the Iatola came in and uh forced the you know,

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Speaker 2: ideals of the what's going down there right now, which

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Speaker 2: is what we see today.

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Speaker 4: A very strict theography, thank you, which just been yeah,

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Speaker 4: very much so. No, the people Iran, they have always been.

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Speaker 2: Very h beautiful.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean with the Americans and the Arabians

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Speaker 4: have always gotten along pretty well, not so much with

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Speaker 4: the with the government nowadays.

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Speaker 2: Right, even back in the day in the eighties, I

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Speaker 2: remember my dad always not there was like this movie

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Speaker 2: with Charlie Sheen and they're driving through the town and

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Speaker 2: he shoots the machine guns called Navy seals and he

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Speaker 2: shoots the picture of aatolea comane down. Okay, like they

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Speaker 2: put that in the movie. And my Dad's like, yep,

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Speaker 2: that's about right. And my dad never really talked like

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Speaker 2: that as a Green Beret, but he had two people

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Speaker 2: that he just didn't like, and one was him and

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Speaker 2: uh And I was like, okay. And now that I'm older, though,

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Speaker 2: I understand because you know, he was full on in

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Speaker 2: the eighties and the s right, so as like you

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Speaker 2: and he was seventies, seventies, eighties, you know, nineties guy.

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Speaker 4: So well that this this nineteen seventy nine was my

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Speaker 4: introduction to the Atola. Before that, my whole, my whole

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Speaker 4: army career was oriented on one thing, the warsaw pack

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Speaker 4: to the Soviet Union, right, and that's.

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Speaker 3: Why we were in Berlin.

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Speaker 2: Holy yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 4: The permission in Berlin was if there was a war,

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Speaker 4: we would be supposed to go out there and create

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Speaker 4: as much hammock as we possibly could slow the Russians.

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Speaker 3: Now then the bark Cliff for the Air Force. So

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Speaker 3: this this.

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Speaker 4: New mission was very very a very quick switch. But

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Speaker 4: you know, the special forces are pretty adaptable. So we said, oh,

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Speaker 4: they moved a couple of doors over, but we know

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Speaker 4: where the target lives, so let's go get them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Really, you know, Warsaw pack so true and it's still today.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's like it's never been given up on

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Speaker 2: their side, you know, Russia never gave up like He's

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Speaker 2: They're like, well, we don't really want to give up

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Speaker 2: that Warsaw.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think what moving moving on in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 4: or nineteen ninety, I should say, I think we made

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Speaker 4: a bit of a tactical error and believing that the

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Speaker 4: Russians were not interested in moving west.

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Speaker 3: Right by we're still doing it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, by having the accord signed where they would get

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Speaker 2: rid of the nukes for Ukraine, and Ukraine said okay,

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Speaker 2: we want to be our own somber state. And at

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Speaker 2: the time Russia was like.

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Speaker 3: All right, cool, yeah, cool cool.

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Speaker 2: But that all changed, you know, someone got the lust

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Speaker 2: for the property lines, and uh, you know, we'll call

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Speaker 2: him Putin.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the I think the Ukrainians might be

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Speaker 4: regretting the fact that they gave up their nukes.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they had the majority of them. But did they?

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Speaker 3: But did you know?

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Speaker 2: I lay in bed thinking did they?

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Speaker 3: Though? Have you read my other book? Which one it's

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Speaker 3: called Dead Hand. It's a fiction novel, dead Hand.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna write that down. Dead Hand.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it takes place oddly enough, it takes place

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four, and it's about what happens when

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Speaker 4: the Ukrainians nuke the Rotians.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm just you know, I mean, you can only

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Speaker 2: poke the bear so much, you know, and uh, supersonic

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Speaker 2: missile the kmart gets old. Okay, so you know, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, yeah, but you know, there's Jiva, there's the

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Speaker 4: Geneva and Hague conventions, and then there's Putin's rules of combat.

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Speaker 3: So they're kind of different.

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Speaker 2: Right, And now the he's integrating you know, their top

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Speaker 2: North Korea has been found to be now on the

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Speaker 2: on the lines with Russia fighting against but they're getting

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Speaker 2: slaughtered in from what I'm hearing, it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're turning up bodies.

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Speaker 4: Well, depending on whose numbers you believe, we're talking as

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Speaker 4: far as the Russians, we're talking between five hundred and

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Speaker 4: seven hundred thousand casualties the Ukrainians have lost, with a

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Speaker 4: few also probably closer to two fifty three hundred.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's an amazing loss.

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Speaker 4: Of life for what they are doing with a small

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Speaker 4: state about the size of Texas. You know, they're fighting

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Speaker 4: is more than just.

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Speaker 3: Whacking the hell out of each other.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm I'm concerned to see how this is going to.

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Speaker 3: Carry out, carry on through the next year.

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Speaker 4: Basically, I think we've been with the previous administration, well,

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Speaker 4: the current administration has basically been giving Ukraine a lifeline

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Speaker 4: but not pulling it in. We've given them enough that

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Speaker 4: they can hold off the Russians to prolong their defeat,

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Speaker 4: depending on how the Russians react. So now we'll see,

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Speaker 4: we'll see how and how our own government reacts in

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Speaker 4: the next year.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, your book's gonna you're gonna have to

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Speaker 2: have a new book.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So with Mission Iran, that's very like kind of current,

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Speaker 2: that's very current today, you know, because what's going on

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Speaker 2: over in the Middle East, and you know how they

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Speaker 2: are at arms with each other, Israel and Palestine and

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Speaker 2: going into Iran and you know, getting into it with

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Speaker 2: you know, do we need to see regime change? Do

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Speaker 2: the people of Iran want this to happen? Is this

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Speaker 2: something that was a stepping stone to moving the Iatola

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Speaker 2: out of the situation and taking him out of the

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Speaker 2: you know what you said, the theocracy.

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Speaker 5: I'm if we're talking about current day politics, I'm not

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Speaker 5: sure I can see it because the Iranian Revolutionary Guard

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Speaker 5: and all the members of the theocracy are no so

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Speaker 5: well established and so powerful.

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Speaker 4: You know, They've got their secret services and their their

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Speaker 4: guns and everything else.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be extremely difficult to get them out.

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Speaker 3: We are going to be able to do it.

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Speaker 4: It's going to be the people around. We may give

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Speaker 4: them some consistence, but without there or without their efforts,

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Speaker 4: it will be it will end up being the same

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Speaker 4: way as it ended up in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 2: Right, they need to take on the fight and stand

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Speaker 2: fast and hold the line and not just and we

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Speaker 2: can help that and support a positive outcome, but they

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Speaker 2: have to do the majority of all of that, is

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Speaker 2: that what you're kind of.

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Speaker 3: Getting at absolutely, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think we're just gonna sit there and go yep, yep, yeah, agree.

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Speaker 3: With what you said.

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Speaker 2: This podcast is called YEP sponsored by YET and we

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Speaker 2: are just going to sit here agree to agree on things.

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Speaker 2: But you know the books that you have out there, Uh,

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Speaker 2: that's doing well for you being an author. Transitioning from

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Speaker 2: CIA from Special Forces to author. Did you ever think

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Speaker 2: that you'd be doing that.

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Speaker 4: I actually started to write when I was in the

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Speaker 4: Army and when I was stationed in Berlin, so I

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Speaker 4: was always going to doodle.

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Speaker 3: In these things.

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Speaker 4: And I decided after I got out and retired that

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Speaker 4: I could actually try it on for size and start

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Speaker 4: telling some of these stories.

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Speaker 3: So I started out in nonfiction. My first will.

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Speaker 4: Probably the book that is doing the best is My

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Speaker 4: History of Special Forces. Let It's a thirty year history.

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Speaker 4: Was not very well known, so when I got it published,

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Speaker 4: I had to break some rules.

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Speaker 3: Actually I didn't. It was all.

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Speaker 4: Reviewed by the Army and everything and it got cleared,

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Speaker 4: so that was sort of the start. It came off

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Speaker 4: with this, and then I told a bit of the

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Speaker 4: Rand story in that book, but not all of it

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Speaker 4: because some of my friends that some of my friends

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Speaker 4: were still serving and I could not tell their stories.

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Speaker 4: So about two thousand eighteen, twenty nineteen, it became clear

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Speaker 4: that they were all free and clear of everything, and

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Speaker 4: I can start telling their stories. So it's a result

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Speaker 4: of about interviews with about forty people that I undertook.

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Speaker 4: Some of the guys are from Delta, of course, but

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Speaker 4: most of them are guys I served with in Berlin.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: I think that's so neat and so intriguing about what

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Speaker 2: your mission was and in Berlin, and you know, growing

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Speaker 2: up with my dad going over to Thailand and all

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Speaker 2: these different places, Cobra, gold and you know, all this

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Speaker 2: stuff in my as a young kid, I never put

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Speaker 2: two and two together, you know, I just always thought,

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Speaker 2: that's dad. You're so cool, bro, You're I mean, you

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Speaker 2: did such a crazy gig. You saw the Berlin Wall, Like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. People, you know people they always say thank you

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Speaker 4: for your stars and oh god, you must.

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Speaker 3: Be some sort of the hero or something rock star.

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Speaker 3: I was lucky. I survived.

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Speaker 4: I was I was a witness to all the really

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Speaker 4: cold people. Some of the names I could drop some

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Speaker 4: of these guys are just.

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Speaker 3: You know, alievable, but.

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Speaker 4: For me, the cool part was being in Berlin, you know,

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Speaker 4: the Divine to Cety. After I had read you know,

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Speaker 4: a number of nonfics in the histories of World War

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Speaker 4: two and everything. My father was a soldier in World

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Speaker 4: War Two, and then also some of the movies or

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Speaker 4: some of the fiction I had read, you know, like

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Speaker 4: jehan Lecerrey, There's Fight who Came In from the Cold,

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Speaker 4: Lynn Dayton Funeral in Berlin, and some of these really.

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Speaker 3: Cool fiction books.

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Speaker 4: So when when I got to Berlin, it was actually

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Speaker 4: on the street, wandering around in civilian clothes, talking to

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Speaker 4: people living with these people across the walking along the wall,

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Speaker 4: knowing across the wall in a completely different place, you know,

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Speaker 4: two completely antagonistic political systems, And there were guys with

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Speaker 4: guns that's what I call him. Gwg's all along the wall.

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Speaker 4: And I'm kind of looking at these guys and they're

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Speaker 4: looking at me, and I'm going, you probably don't know

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Speaker 4: what I'm here for. I'm not gonna tell you, but

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Speaker 4: I kind of look forward to the day when we meet.

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Speaker 3: Europe.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, no, no, So my father in law was serving

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Speaker 2: a religious mission in Germany Switzerland area, and somehow he

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Speaker 2: told a story of going through the wall east to

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Speaker 2: east to west to go meet somebody on the other

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Speaker 2: side of in East Germany. I'm like, it's got to

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Speaker 2: be a girl.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: And at the time, I was like, he just talks

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Speaker 2: about it. We're gonna see him at Thanksgiving coming up here,

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Speaker 2: and we're I'm gonna ask him and say, so, Elliott,

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Speaker 2: tell me more about how you went over East German's

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Speaker 2: Wall and whatnot. And I'm curious because back then man

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Speaker 2: in the sixty eight, sixty six, sixty eight, because then

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Speaker 2: he went after he got out of the religious mission

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Speaker 2: for his church, he joined the Marine Corps and went

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Speaker 2: to Vietnam as an older dude twenty five is twenty

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Speaker 2: four to twenty five. But yeah, he was going back

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Speaker 2: and forth the wall, sneaking across as a missionary.

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Speaker 3: You could do that.

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Speaker 4: They had between the East and West Berlin or about

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Speaker 4: nine I believe, I can't remember exactly crossing points, and

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Speaker 4: some points were designated for only Westperlinters to go in

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Speaker 4: the East Berlin or for Easter Litters.

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Speaker 3: To go into West Berlin.

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Speaker 4: There were a couple of slots places there were designated

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Speaker 4: only for foreigners and West Germans, you know, from further out,

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Speaker 4: and there.

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Speaker 3: Were other places you've go ahead.

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Speaker 4: If you had an American passport, the civilian passport, you

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Speaker 4: could cross a couple.

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Speaker 3: Of rip places.

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Speaker 4: But if you're in the military, we were supposed to

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Speaker 4: use checkpoints Charlotte, which is the most favorite, most famous

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Speaker 4: crossing point. So that was that was a bizarre thing

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Speaker 4: in itself. More bizarre was crossing end when you were

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Speaker 4: using your US passport or a different pashport going through

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Speaker 4: one of the other checkpoints there you saw the difference.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you're going through Checkpoint Charlie, it's basically the.

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Speaker 4: East Germans can't touch the Americans or any of the

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Speaker 4: breads of the French, especially the military.

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Speaker 3: But when you're going through.

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Speaker 4: Any of the other checkpoints, you're a fair game. It's

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Speaker 4: like crossing the border between warhead and in the United States. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it was a bizarre place.

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Speaker 3: To live in.

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Speaker 4: Some people didn't like it at all because you're you're

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Speaker 4: in a city about the size of Manhattan.

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Speaker 3: Well New York City, but you're ringed by a wall.

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Speaker 4: After nineteen sixty one, you know, the whole city is

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Speaker 4: closed in and some people got basically cabin fever from

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Speaker 4: being in that location. Some of the guys preferred to

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Speaker 4: be in southern Germany where they.

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Speaker 3: Could ski and go out into the woods.

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Speaker 4: So for us to do that, we had to pick

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Speaker 4: up a move, you know, either by error or by trade,

388
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Speaker 4: and so a lot of the guys didn't like it.

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Speaker 4: For me, it was cool, but other people liking to

390
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Speaker 4: be like in the zoo, to be in the cage

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Speaker 4: in the zoo, and.

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Speaker 3: Other other folks said, well, you know.

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Speaker 4: The war kicks off, this is gonna be the largest

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Speaker 4: pow camp in.

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Speaker 3: The world immediately ye has to manage to get out

396
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Speaker 3: and cause trouble. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, really, they just because they're they're trapping. They're kind

398
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Speaker 2: of like they're just pacing like the lion at the zoo.

399
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Speaker 2: And they say that the zoo is the only jail

400
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Speaker 2: where everybody is innocent.

401
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Speaker 3: Yeah.

402
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we weren't so in innocent.

403
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Speaker 2: No, no, no operation of Berlin Man Warsaw packed. I

404
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: just grew up with a whole closet at the armory

405
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Speaker 2: that my dad worked at with warsaw pack cards. There

406
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Speaker 2: was like this monitor that he'd have me go sit

407
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Speaker 2: in the closet. He's like, just go sitting there and

408
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: look at the stuff. And I'd pull film off of

409
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Speaker 2: a shelf and I'd put it on and I just

410
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Speaker 2: there to scroll these dials and just see like T

411
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Speaker 2: ten tanks and RPG seven's, but then the rockets and

412
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Speaker 2: all the different rockets and all the different rockets rockets,

413
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Speaker 2: and then there'd be like these models, and I remembered

414
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 2: all these warsaw packed stuff, right. I think I even

415
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 2: have a pack of cards still somewhere that are a

416
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 2: full deck of cards for Warsaw packed equipment.

417
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Speaker 3: That was one of the most boring classes. We had.

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Speaker 3: The models.

419
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Speaker 2: Somebody in the military or contracted through the military to

420
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Speaker 2: make these specific, perfect models and then photograph them, to

421
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 2: make them into films so that they could be scrolled

422
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: and be trained and uptrained to guys like yourself or

423
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Speaker 2: my dad or somehow. I saw it, you know, and

424
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: sat there. It was just like it was like the

425
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: iPad of the SF I's here, go use your iPad aaron.

426
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Speaker 3: For us.

427
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 4: That was part of the job because you had to

428
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 4: identify not only the vehicles, but you had to identify

429
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 4: how they were grouped, because you could tell by the

430
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 4: type of vehicle because there are variants that everyone there

431
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 4: was one type of truck, but they had thirty different

432
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 4: kinds of variants of that truck. You can tell what

433
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 4: unit it belonged to based on the extraneous equipment they had.

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00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we had to learn.

435
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 4: All those so we could say, okay, that belongs to

436
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 4: a Russian Strategic Rocket Army, or that's part.

437
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: Of an armored division, or that's an engineer unit. And

438
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 3: you had to know which which tank blown where, which which.

439
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 4: Radar system below where, and what missile it went after,

440
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 4: so that we could tell the air force this is

441
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 4: where you want to come anyway.

442
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 2: That's all the silhouettes, you know, all the different silhouettes

443
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: of the sideways of it or the front forward version

444
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: of it, like, oh, you're looking directly at it. Oh,

445
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: you're looking at the side of it. This is the same.

446
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: This is how it looks.

447
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 4: The really different this was we actually got to go

448
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 4: out and seen it. Uh as part of as part

449
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 4: of the mission, you're going out looking at these things,

450
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 4: and the East Germans and the Russians weren't really keen

451
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 4: on that, but we sent teams out to find these things,

452
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 4: to locate them and be able to identify them one

453
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 4: by one.

454
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was another one part of the mission.

455
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: What was your original MOS military occupation specialty on a

456
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: eight on the team? Were you like an eighteen echo

457
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: or Charlie.

458
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 4: Or I started out as the one to one problem

459
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 4: dionuh so I was an infantry one. I went to

460
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 4: one one hotel, which was a one O six recoil

461
00:26:54,440 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 4: less rifle uh crew one O six recoilers tell in

462
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 4: the eighties. Second, and then when I managed to escape

463
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 4: the eighty second, which is another long story, I went

464
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 4: to Special Forces and trained initially as a one to

465
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 4: one BROVO for Sierra, which was light weapon the leader

466
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 4: I see, and I cross trained in a number of

467
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 4: other MOS.

468
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very cool, very cool. And did you what

469
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: was your favorite MOS within the teams.

470
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 4: What eventually became eighteen boxtrot the intel sergeant. And part

471
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 4: of that was because of my time in Berlin, just

472
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 4: the intelligence trade craft, the kind of things you.

473
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 3: Were doing, working on your own.

474
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 4: Cultivating assets, looking for people that can tell you the

475
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 4: information you wanted, looking for things, and I think that

476
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 4: the finding the best part. You're looking for it can

477
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 4: be boring, but when you actually find something that you're

478
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 4: looking for, That's always cool being able to talk to people,

479
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 4: finding the right one that's going to answer your questions.

480
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 4: The recruit assessment and recruitment process. Yeah, so that's that's

481
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 4: the part I enjoyed.

482
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm just sit here thinking you're talking about,

483
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 2: you know, the timeframe, and there's just no GPS. You know,

484
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: like there's no there's no you know, Google Maps for

485
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: you to get around, be like, we got to go

486
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: over here over there. You're literally using some type of

487
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: like you know, folding map from like a like a

488
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: tourist pamphlet or something from the area of that that

489
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: somebody's drawn, right, and like there's you're really just seriously

490
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: in it, like moving street to street house. No cell phones, right,

491
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: you have to go to a phone and be like, hey,

492
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: it's me she and I got the information over here,

493
00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: you see, Okay, I'll talk to you at three o'clock.

494
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, paper maps, magnetic compass or two.

495
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 3: You generally carry two.

496
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 4: A number two lead pencil with an eraser because bopoy

497
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 4: pins couldn't be trusted, you know, a cat very old

498
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,239
Speaker 4: school I had the first time I saw GPS was

499
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 4: the Golf War, when we started feeling fielding the new garments,

500
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 4: and that was wow.

501
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: We were using those things in the desert. And you know,

502
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 3: before you had to use the map, and.

503
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 4: If you were lucky, if you're driving a vehicle, you're

504
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 4: driving with one over two hundred and fifty thousand map,

505
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 4: which is, you know, not too much detail.

506
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 3: But with the garment you could use your map and

507
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: you could.

508
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 4: Use the GPS to tell you were where you were

509
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 4: on the map, which was which was real cool. I mean,

510
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 4: it was a very simple reado. It was all in

511
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 4: geographic Gorton's.

512
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 3: No picture or anything like that. It was just telling

513
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 3: you where you were at and you could reference that

514
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 3: to the map.

515
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 4: Problem was and says you're driving along and the GPS

516
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 4: is saying this is how you get from here to

517
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 4: there straight line. You have to look at the ground

518
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 4: while you're drivings is not showing you a picture, and

519
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 4: all of a sudden you come up on a very

520
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 4: large hole in the ground, but the GPS does not

521
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 4: show you.

522
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: But they're a lot better than that now.

523
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: Well, I still hear about people getting stuck on dirt

524
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: roads trying to get using their GPS, so you know,

525
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: not everything's still mapped out, so some old school ingenuity

526
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: is still probably needed in this day and age. I

527
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: think it's still good to learn how to drive a

528
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: stick shift that kind.

529
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 4: Of thing, absolutely, because a lot of places in the

530
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 4: world you can't get in automatic, or if you do

531
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 4: have an automatic, you'll get stuck in the heard.

532
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

533
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 4: The Special Forces school stopped teaching map using regular maps

534
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 4: a while back, and they've only recently brought it back

535
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 4: in because they found out that exactly what you're saying,

536
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 4: the GPS is gonnot be trusted. They're gonna be bespoofed.

537
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 4: And then you have this issue of batteries. Right, half

538
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 4: the equipment we carry a required battery. We used to

539
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 4: complain about the radios because they had these bricks of

540
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 4: a battery and besides that, in your flashlight that was

541
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 4: the only batteries you had to carry. Nowadays you have

542
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 4: to carry one forever.

543
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 3: It's true.

544
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: You know, my dad was the eighteen echo and he

545
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: said that allowed him to be in charge of everybody

546
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: for five minutes when they had to crank the He's like,

547
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: everybody cranks, yeah, and if you and.

548
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 4: They and they never carried the generator the lieutenant. The

549
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 4: lieutenantually had stuck with.

550
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: Anyway.

551
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he would be a crank crank away.

552
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

553
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: I remember playing with his Morse code device. Did it

554
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: did that whole?

555
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's another thing we had to learn. Worse works

556
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 4: I work. So that's why the trendees are still uses,

557
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 4: but we're not.

558
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: So it got the three Amigos to go down and

559
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: save Santa Poco and the three Amigos they used Amigos

560
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: please come.

561
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: Down and save us.

562
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so really yeah, it's it's kind of like you know,

563
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: caveman technology, right, it's been around for so long. The

564
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: telegraph is Morse code.

565
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah.

566
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 4: If I go back to where we were in nineteen

567
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 4: seventy nine, and we have been given.

568
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 3: The mission for counter terrorism in.

569
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 4: Nineteen seventy five, and basically they said this was when

570
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 4: all the skyjackings, the aircraft hijackings were taking place in

571
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 4: Europe and became it was getting to be worries. So

572
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 4: the American commander in Europe, the four star, said what

573
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 4: do we have to handle this? And the bad the

574
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 4: guy said basically nothing, uh, And so they Special Operations Command,

575
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 4: which was down in stute Cart at the time, came

576
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 4: to our units, do you think you could work up

577
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 4: an operations plan of how you could do this uh

578
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 4: counter terrorism stuff, and that was not far off from.

579
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: What we were doing anyway. I mean, basically, if you're

580
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: you have a terrorist, what you're dealing with is the

581
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 3: same thing as I'm gonna use this loosely a commando.

582
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: You know, a guy that's taught to go.

583
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 4: Undercover and blows something up or kill someone. So what

584
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 4: better unit, it said, out against them than the exact

585
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 4: kind of unit that you are fighting. So they said,

586
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 4: your special Forces, you guys can figure this out.

587
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 3: So we did.

588
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 4: But we were starting out from basics, none of this

589
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 4: high speed black bel grow gortex stuff.

590
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 3: You know. We were taking what we had had to

591
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 3: go from there.

592
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 4: But you go back in history, you go back in

593
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 4: history also, and we were studying the manuals from the

594
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 4: OSS and World War two and the Special Operations.

595
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: We had some guys that.

596
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 4: Had trained with the sas the sis is probably the

597
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 4: first counter terrorism No, the first counter terrorism unit was

598
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 4: actually the Shangheim muniial place in nineteen twenties, basically an

599
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 4: anti riots one. But we took all that old information

600
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 4: and said this is what we need to do. And

601
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 4: then we looked at the what was happening? Aircraft jects, Well,

602
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 4: what do you do against? We found an airplane and

603
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 4: we started practicing a trade a building and that's.

604
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 3: That's how we build up our skills.

605
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 4: And everybody's going whateff, and then well then or what

606
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 4: about this?

607
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 3: And it was.

608
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 4: All you know, hunting Pack tried different things out. So

609
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 4: by nineteen seventy nine we are fully trained as a

610
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 4: counter terrorism for Europe. But back in the States, we

611
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 4: had decided the Army had decided they.

612
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: Needed a full time, big counter terrorism that only had counter.

613
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 4: Terrorism as its primary measurement, and that was this outfit

614
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 4: called Delta. So when it came down for the Iran thing,

615
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 4: they said, okay, Delta Force, you're going, but we need

616
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 4: the intelligence to figure out how to hit this target.

617
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 4: So the only people that can do that are people

618
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 4: that know how to work undercover, and then people who

619
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 4: know Special Forces operations so they know what information to

620
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 4: look for. And they said the only place we can

621
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 4: get that was Detachment A. So our guys were chosen

622
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 4: to go in the Tehran and collect that. This is

623
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 4: the only probably the only successful part of.

624
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 3: That mission was the guy that went in and came

625
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 3: out with that interval, But then about a couple of

626
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 3: weeks into the operation, Charlie Beckworth.

627
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 4: Realized that he had to take down the US embassy

628
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 4: to get the hostages out of the hembasphere. It's about

629
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 4: a twenty three acre site, big site, and about I

630
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 4: can't remember how many buildings, but you know, like twenty

631
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 4: five different buildings on this site.

632
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 3: So he had one.

633
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 4: Hundred guys to go do this. The problem was there

634
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 4: were three other hostings being held in the Foreign Ministry,

635
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 4: the Iranian Foreign Ministry, and.

636
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 3: He said, I can't handle it. I'm fully occupied for this.

637
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 4: So our commander who was in the in the planning

638
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 4: stages from the beginning, and we'll do it. And we

639
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 4: got the target, We got the mission to take down

640
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 4: the Foreign Ministry. So at Desert One, you've got all

641
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 4: those planes coming in, all eleicatters, there are delta forests

642
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 4: on the airplanes, there are rangers who secured Desert one,

643
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 4: and then there are our guys mixed in there. So

644
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 4: we've got our team in.

645
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 3: There as well. And that's that's how things went down.

646
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 2: That's how things went down, he says, that's how things

647
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 2: went down.

648
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 3: Like a cowboy.

649
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I think when the whole thing was concluded.

650
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 4: One of our guys, really a former officer who had

651
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 4: been rifted in the nineteen seventies and came back into

652
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 4: Special Forces as a sergeant, became a medic. When they

653
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 4: told us the whole thing was cut off. This was

654
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 4: December of nineteen eighty, after a Rigan had been lected.

655
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 4: He was just shaking his head. He was cleaning his

656
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 4: machine gun, and it goes, it would have been glorious.

657
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,919
Speaker 2: It would have been glorious, just clean.

658
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 3: It would probably will be dead, but whatever.

659
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you just got the hindsights twenty twenty right.

660
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 4: Well anyway, but Desert one to knock him off, obviously,

661
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 4: primarily because the helicopters were.

662
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 3: Well anyway, primarily because of the headquarters.

663
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 4: But after that we began blending in a second mission,

664
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 4: and that if Carter had been re elected, we might

665
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 4: have done that one.

666
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 3: But Reagan got elected, and for obscure reasons, probably left

667
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 3: in the New York Times, the.

668
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 4: Vision was canceled. So the second one would have been

669
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 4: much larger. The Air Force or the Marines in the

670
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 4: Navy were out. It would have been just the Air

671
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 4: Force and the Army Air Force flying airplanes, big aircraft

672
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 4: the Army with the ground wars is obviously, but then

673
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 4: also army helicopters.

674
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 3: Blackhawks eight six is. I talked about that at great

675
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: deal in the in the book, and it.

676
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 4: Was basically the origin of the Knights Talkers, a Special Operations,

677
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 4: the Asian Squad what was known then that day as

678
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 4: task Forces won't get Time, and then they cleverly changed

679
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 4: the name the Dash Force one six.

680
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, that's right. And I and Colonel Nightingale,

681
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: you know, he just said that. I said, what's the

682
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 2: difference between you and you know? How come we saw

683
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: Oliver North get kind of put in front of Congress

684
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 2: and all this kind of stuff and how that went down?

685
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: And he's like, rad I kept my receipts. Yeah, And

686
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: that's on a soft reap episode. So if you go back,

687
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 2: if you want to go find me interviewing Colonel Nightingale

688
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 2: from the same thing that you know, a living Ranger

689
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 2: founder I think the Second Rangers or the First Rangers.

690
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: He's like a living member of that, the sixtieth, the

691
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: one sixtieth, and they made numbers, so you think there

692
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 2: was more. I love that part of the group I

693
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 2: love you Special Forces guys. You know, it's like Dad

694
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: all over.

695
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 3: Thank you.

696
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 2: I just want you to know, from me to you,

697
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: I know you got so much that you're going to

698
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 2: take with you, and that you've been a part of

699
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 2: that well ever ever know, and you've kept that oath

700
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: and I just want to commend you on the oath

701
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: keeping for our nation. Uh And I want to say

702
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: thank you for me to you to that thing.

703
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate that a lot, Rad, But what you

704
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 4: really have to know is that you have no idea

705
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 4: how much fun we had to all this stuff. So

706
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 4: it's really probly for us. And like I said, I

707
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 4: didn't do.

708
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 3: Anything radical when I was in the military, but I.

709
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 4: Got I had the chance to work with some of

710
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 4: the like I said, the greatest guys I've never had

711
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 4: the optunity to work with, and they're all over the military.

712
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 4: But yeah, so being a being a witness to this,

713
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 4: and that's part of the reason why I became a writer.

714
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 4: I'm also was a historian. I actually went to school,

715
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 4: and now that I'm officially certified, I can write books

716
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 4: and say I'm historicorian.

717
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: Congratulations on that. That's a big deal to go to

718
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: school yes.

719
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 4: But but part of the reason I wrote the first

720
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: book about Berlin was we were at a reunion, and

721
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 4: this was about twenty twelve or so, and so Berlin

722
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 4: had been closed down since the Berlin Wall. The unit

723
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 4: was shut down and you know, the benefits of peace,

724
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 4: which we may.

725
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 3: Be regretting here before too long.

726
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 4: But anyway, we were sitting around and saying, well, you know,

727
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 4: we had to get somebody to write this stuff down

728
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 4: because we're all going to be.

729
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 3: Gone before too long. And my thought was, well, you're

730
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 3: certainly not.

731
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 4: Going to get the army to do it, because A

732
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 4: they don't have anybody that knows what the unit was

733
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,879
Speaker 4: up to, and B they're going to write when they

734
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 4: want the bad birds, well the good bards. And I

735
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 4: had already written one soul history about World War.

736
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 3: One in Africa, and somebody from across the room goes, hey,

737
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 3: he wrote a book, And so that's how I was volunteer.

738
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 4: Anyway, So the next three and a half years I

739
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 4: spent interviewing guys.

740
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 3: From the union. In other places.

741
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 4: I think I managed to interview about sixty five people

742
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 4: as inbut from others. No more than eight hundred people

743
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 4: served in Berlin. From nineteen fifty six to nineteen ninety,

744
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 4: so those eight hundred people was my pool. Some of

745
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 4: the guys had passed on, and some of the guys

746
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 4: didn't want to talk to me. I respect that, and

747
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 4: some of the guys told me the stories that I

748
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 4: had to get cross checked and write. Some of those

749
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 4: went out the window. But and it was quite a

750
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 4: revelation for me to be able to write this. I

751
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 4: talked to some of the very first guys that have

752
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 4: been in the Union nineteen fifty six and onwards, and

753
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 4: being able to do that, you know.

754
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 3: Brought gave me a new appreciation for the unit over

755
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 3: the years.

756
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 4: And then then I called up the Pentagon and said, hey,

757
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 4: I got this book, and I understand I'm supposed to

758
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 4: have it checked out by you folks.

759
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 3: And they said, well, normally you go to your proponent,

760
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 3: and in my case it would have been the Army.

761
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 4: But the lady must have figured out something and she goes, well,

762
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 4: first tell me what it's about. And I told her,

763
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 4: I said, it's about a classified it's apecial forces unit

764
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 4: that existed in Berlin, and she goes, you better send

765
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 4: me the magistript.

766
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 3: So sixteen months later I got the clearance to write it.

767
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 3: I told the Army about this and so the guys said, no,

768
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 3: you can't write this, it's classified.

769
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 4: And I said, that's how this publication clearance brought us works.

770
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 3: The Army told me what's good to go and what's not.

771
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 3: So that's what we did.

772
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 2: So that did they redact things that you did put

773
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: in there that you thought you wanted out there?

774
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 3: Ashley? Surprisingly, not very much.

775
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 4: They talk about you've burned the special atomic demolition ammunition,

776
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 4: the device to the suitcase nuke.

777
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 3: Yes, I talked about that some and I had a specific.

778
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 4: Number in there, and it went off to the Defense

779
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 4: Nuclear Agency and they said, well, don't put that in

780
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 4: and put this in. So and a few other small

781
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 4: details like that, you know, really mid noise stuff.

782
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 2: But whatever, I forgot all about the suitcase. I keep

783
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 2: thinking about submarines. Jez it's gonna left that one off there.

784
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was, it was. It was part of

785
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 3: the job.

786
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, that's great, And that's Special Forces Berlin

787
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: and my listener, our viewer can go and find that

788
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: anywhere that books are being sold online, and if you

789
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: do buy his book, you should leave a review on

790
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: the site. That you bought it from. Help bring that

791
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: up for James so that it could rise into searches

792
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 2: and you know, he can just have more opportunity to

793
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: tell these stories, because I mean, really, you're telling like

794
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 2: espionage like cool. I love it. I think it should

795
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:34,760
Speaker 2: be Have you had a movie made.

796
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:40,959
Speaker 4: I wish. I think my fiction series, which is called

797
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 4: The Snake.

798
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 3: Eater Chronicles Love Love It.

799
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 4: A new one was coming out, which is actually the

800
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 4: origin story before I had started about nineteen seventy nine

801
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 4: so that I could write about the time I was there.

802
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 4: So this is going to carry the unit from the

803
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 4: very beginning till the end of some further bits. Because

804
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 4: so your your point about reviews is very much appreciated.

805
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 4: You don't even have to buy the book from Amazon

806
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 4: to right read to review on it now, so that's

807
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 4: that's key. But you know, being being able to put

808
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 4: down the nonfiction history is one thing. But then some

809
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 4: of the stories I have to adapt to protect the

810
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 4: guilties of the speech because like I said, I served

811
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 4: as very interesting people and being able to tell their stories.

812
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 4: Some of these stories are coupled together. When I write

813
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 4: my fiction, I will take an incident that happen there,

814
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 4: when it happened over here. Put them all together and

815
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 4: tell the story. So if I told it as nonfiction,

816
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 4: I'd have to get it well, I have to get

817
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 4: them cleared anyway.

818
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 3: But if I told it as non fiction, then people

819
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 3: can out assuming. But I don't know.

820
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you're trying to just get it

821
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 2: out there, like you know now, without any issues. You're

822
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 2: just like, Okay, if this is how it's supposed to

823
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 2: go out there, then this is what can go out there.

824
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to make anybody else mad. You're respecting

825
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: your guys and gals that you worked with, and if

826
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 2: they don't want to tell you something, there's they're they're cool.

827
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 2: That and the guys that you said you cross checked, Hey,

828
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 2: you're in it for it seems like the right reasons.

829
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 2: And and again I like that, that's cool.

830
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 3: You're cool. Yeah, and it's fun for me too. It

831
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 3: keeps keeps me busy and it gets me out of

832
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 3: my wife's there, So that's that's good.

833
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 4: The only r part about looking for my name on

834
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 4: Amazon or anywhere is being able to get some spelly right.

835
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 4: So you know, if my my name was Jack Carr.

836
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 3: It would be easy. C A R C A R R.

837
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 3: But anyway you're out.

838
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: It's like your last name is maybe Norwegian or something

839
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: along those lines.

840
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 3: Your last name.

841
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: It's check, Check's lockey in.

842
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 3: Check because it's that's.

843
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 4: And the basic translation comes up from something like which

844
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 4: I think is very appropriate.

845
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 3: Grumpy old man, grumpy old.

846
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: Only if you say so. Well, listen, you've been wonderful

847
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 2: on the show, and you've really been telling us some

848
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 2: insightful things. I've really been just kind of captivated by

849
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: you and just haven't even really spoken. This will probably

850
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: be my best episode ever because you just take it.

851
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 2: You just take the cake for your stories about Berlin

852
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 2: and about what you've done and who you've served with. Uh,

853
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: so many things I could probably go into with you.

854
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 2: And with that said, I'd like to open up an

855
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: invitation to have you back on the show if there's

856
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,399
Speaker 2: ever another book or anything that you want to talk about.

857
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: You're like, hey Erin or hey Rad. Yes my name

858
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:58,919
Speaker 2: is Erin, but I also go by Rad.

859
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 3: Now I'm confused, but I appreciate that.

860
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: Aaron Raddred, It's.

861
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, we we did not talk about a lot of things,

862
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 4: and I could ramb along for a lot longer.

863
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 3: But yeah, But like.

864
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 4: I said, I've got my next fiction book is coming

865
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 4: out in the spring, and that's the origin story of

866
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 4: Special Parsons in Berlin. I'm also doing a guide book

867
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 4: to Berlin, a guide to Golden War Berlin, and that's

868
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 4: going to be done in pictures and words.

869
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 3: The story is about things that happened there, both fiction

870
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 3: and not fiction. Oh yeah, that'd be real.

871
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 2: That's really cool. Do you go back and visit Germany

872
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: since you speak it and you.

873
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 3: Know it, well, I went.

874
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 4: I went back there in June, spent about ten days

875
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,919
Speaker 4: recounting old sites. I'm going back in two weeks. I'm

876
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 4: actually going over and talk to the German schedule operations around.

877
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, about stay behind forces and Russians.

878
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 2: I don't know what I wonder. I wonder, you know, Uh, yeah,

879
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 2: I wonder. I got some friends over there right now

880
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: in the army, just you know, training.

881
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 3: So that's what you do. Train.

882
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just training.

883
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 3: Boredom punctuated by moments.

884
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 2: Of sure terror, yes exactly. And so you know, blessings

885
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: to them over there and their safety and yours as well.

886
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 2: When you go to travel, you know, et cetera, to

887
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: go over there and thanks for still being you. And again,

888
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 2: I know there's a lot more to talk about, like

889
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 2: your years in the CIA and everything, and so like

890
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 2: I would love to have you back on the show,

891
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 2: uh you know, and we can get that out and

892
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 2: talk about it and talk about your new book, et cetera.

893
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: So I just want to.

894
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 3: Say, make it happen.

895
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 2: I will make it well man, Kay, So it's in

896
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 2: my core. I got you, I got you, I got it.

897
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 2: It's not a few album. The fire is always on

898
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 2: for you. As long as you buy our merch. People

899
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 2: out there, buy the merch, keep it going.

900
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 3: Can I send you a bubble of gas for you? Please? Please? Please?

901
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for being on the show, James.

902
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,280
Speaker 2: You've been a pleasure and just a very cool, entertaining,

903
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 2: captivating guest. And I'm sure my listener out there would

904
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 2: love to have you back on and listen some more. Again.

905
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 2: Go check out his books Special Forces, Berlin Special Operations,

906
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 2: World War Two Mission A Run, which is his latest

907
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 2: book for twenty twenty four.

908
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 3: You heard him.

909
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: He's a historian, a novelist, a human US American Special Forces.

910
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 2: So let's just keep it real and say on behalf

911
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: of everybody here at soft REP. And James, I'm gonna

912
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: say peace.

913
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: You've been listening to self repla