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Speaker 1: Why does the brain so easily form in groups and

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Speaker 1: therefore out groups, And what differences do we see in

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Speaker 1: the brain's circuitry when it thinks about the members of

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Speaker 1: one group or the other? Does dehumanization have a basis

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Speaker 1: in the brain, and are there any ways to rehumanize

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Speaker 1: And in this context of human behavior, what do heroes

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Speaker 1: look like? Welcome to Inner Cosmos with me David Eagleman.

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Speaker 1: I'm a neuroscientist and an author, and in these episodes

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Speaker 1: we launch from the brain to understand why and how

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Speaker 1: our lives look the way they do. Today's episode is

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Speaker 1: about conflict and in groups and outgroups and dehumanization, and

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Speaker 1: I want to take this on in a very human

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Speaker 1: way by talking with two people who I have come

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Speaker 1: to admire greatly because they are living deep in the

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Speaker 1: middle of terrible conflict and they find themselves on opposite sides,

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Speaker 1: but they're striving to do something rare, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to meet them.

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Speaker 2: In just a moment. The first I want to set

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Speaker 2: the context.

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Speaker 1: The difficulty that we always see with human societies is

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Speaker 1: that we are all strapped to our most basic neural

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Speaker 1: drives like anger and fear and suspicion, and an appetite

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Speaker 1: for revenge.

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Speaker 2: And the question that I want.

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Speaker 1: To wrestle with today is whether there's a pathway to

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Speaker 1: rising above that, Is there a higher level of rationality

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Speaker 1: by which we could operate? Are there roads to get

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Speaker 1: ourselves out of the networks in our brains that care

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Speaker 1: only about short term things and somehow allow the long

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Speaker 1: term thinking networks in our brains to gain a foothold,

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Speaker 1: because I suspect that humans getting better at this is

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Speaker 1: probably our only meaningful solution to all the conflicts that

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Speaker 1: constantly convulse our world.

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Speaker 2: Now, if you've been listening.

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Speaker 1: To this podcast for a while, you know that I

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Speaker 1: speak often about in groups and outgroups. Specifically, brains seem

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Speaker 1: to be highly predisposed to form these. We attach to

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Speaker 1: particular groups, whether by accident of birth, or by political momentum,

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Speaker 1: or just from the preferences of our circle of friends

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Speaker 1: or mentors or neighbors or parents or whatever. Now, neuroscience

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Speaker 1: works to understand how individual brains work, but what we

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Speaker 1: summarize as the field of social neuroscience works to understand

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Speaker 1: what happens when you get a bunch of brains interacting,

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Speaker 1: and things are always more complex than you would predict

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Speaker 1: from looking at single brains, in part because of issues

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Speaker 1: that emerge, like the spontaneous formation of in groups and outgroups,

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Speaker 1: and by the way we find this among other species

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Speaker 1: as well. For example, some of my colleagues study this

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Speaker 1: kind of fighting in monkey troops. What you'll find is

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Speaker 1: that two different troops of monkeys will hate each other

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Speaker 1: and fight viciously, sometimes to the death. But every once

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Speaker 1: in a while a monkey will get excluded from his

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Speaker 1: troop and he'll end up switching sides and he'll get

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Speaker 1: accepted in by the other troop, and then he'll fight

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Speaker 1: just as hard on the other side. So the details

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Speaker 1: of in groups and out groups are malleable. But what

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Speaker 1: we find is that primates like us love fighting and

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Speaker 1: dying for whichever side we're on, And it's easy enough

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Speaker 1: to see this in ourselves, whether with politics or sports

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Speaker 1: teams or religions. We tend to have the side that

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Speaker 1: we're on and then the wrong side or sides, and

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people it gives meaning to their

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Speaker 1: lives to fight for their side. And this is all

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Speaker 1: possible because of the very limited borders of our internal models,

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Speaker 1: which allows each of us to so strongly believe in

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Speaker 1: our truths. So behavior becomes complex when you get thousands

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Speaker 1: of humans in the same place, or hundreds of thousands,

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Speaker 1: or millions. And different research groups, including my lab, have

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Speaker 1: done studies on how we perceive pain in another person,

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Speaker 1: say a member of your in group versus a member

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Speaker 1: of your outgroup. Collectively, we've studied this across religion, race,

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Speaker 1: country membership, even things like which sports team you root for.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to link a number of those studies in

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Speaker 1: the show notes, but for now, the b line is

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Speaker 1: that your brain does not care about everyone equally, but

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Speaker 1: instead cares much more about those people whom you consider

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Speaker 1: part of your in group. If you see pain in

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Speaker 1: another person, your brain cares a lot more. It has

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Speaker 1: a much bigger reaction if it is a member of

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Speaker 1: your in group, and what this translates to is really

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Speaker 1: quite shocking. A study from my colleagues, Assana Harris and

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Speaker 1: Susan Fisk at Princeton looked at the issue of how

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Speaker 1: our brains understand about other people. So if you put

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Speaker 1: people into the brain scanner and you show them photographs

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Speaker 1: of other people, there's a region of the brain that

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Speaker 1: becomes very active, called the medial prefrontal cortex. This is

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Speaker 1: an area involved in social cognition. It comes online when

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with another person as opposed to an object

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Speaker 1: like your phone or laptop or car that.

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Speaker 2: Does not activate this region.

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Speaker 1: So the medial prefrontal cortex is specific to thinking about

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Speaker 1: other people.

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Speaker 2: Now, what happens when I.

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Speaker 1: Show you pictures of groups of people that maybe you

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Speaker 1: don't like very much, maybe you envy them or you

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Speaker 1: pity them, Well, you still get medial prefrontal cortex activation.

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Speaker 1: You still see them as humans. But if I go

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Speaker 1: even further out on the spectrum to extreme out groups,

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Speaker 1: that region decreases in its activation to the point where

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Speaker 1: it can't even be measured anymore. And what that means

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Speaker 1: is that people can look at another human being, but

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Speaker 1: it's not like they're viewing another human. Instead, they're viewing

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Speaker 1: an object. And by the way, viewing these photos of

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Speaker 1: extreme outgroups also activates other brain areas like the insulin,

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Speaker 1: the amygdala, which is consistent with disgust. And this kind

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Speaker 1: of dehumanization is the standard in warfare because of the

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Speaker 1: pain of what some group has done unto you, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps because of ubiquitous propaganda, you lose the ability to

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Speaker 1: see members of that group as other humans. Your medial

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Speaker 1: profneral cortex just doesn't come online, and the areas involved

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Speaker 1: in disgust do. And we onays see this in warfare

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Speaker 1: from the descriptions that get used for the enemy. They're

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Speaker 1: described as viruses or cockroaches or rats or whatever, but

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Speaker 1: they're not people anymore, and that's why they can be

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Speaker 1: slaughtered with rifles or bombs. You're just taking care of

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Speaker 1: a cleaning problem with the brain areas involved in humanization

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Speaker 1: out of the equation your moral decision making about other people,

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Speaker 1: the people in your outgroup, it just doesn't have the

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Speaker 1: normal pro social mechanisms steering your behavior. So it's not

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Speaker 1: just that we talk about dehumanization from the point of

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Speaker 1: view of politics or psychology.

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Speaker 2: We can understand it from the point of view of

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Speaker 2: the brain. Now, the reason this is so tragic that

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Speaker 2: human brains do this is because when you look at

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Speaker 2: people of whatever group, you find that everyone loves their

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Speaker 2: families and wants to laugh, It wants to live a

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Speaker 2: good life.

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Speaker 1: It presumably goes without saying that all people are equipped

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Speaker 1: with the same biology on the inside. What pits people

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Speaker 1: against one another are local societal issues, and then they

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Speaker 1: lose the ability to see one another as humans. Now,

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Speaker 1: one way to see how local these issues are is

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Speaker 1: to flip open any history book and ask yourself whether

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Speaker 1: you would have gotten all worked up over the conflicts

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Speaker 1: of previous societies. Does it seem worth it to you

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Speaker 1: to fight and die over deities that no one even

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Speaker 1: remembers anymore, or whether you think Xerxes should or shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be king, Would it be worth it to lose all

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Speaker 1: your children over the position of a border between two

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Speaker 1: countries that don't even exist anymore, Or just take as

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Speaker 1: an example that the history of Europe has been defined

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Speaker 1: by the bloody wars between Catholics and Protestants. Now, for

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Speaker 1: the majority of the world, which is neither Catholic nor Protestant,

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Speaker 1: this seems very difficult to understand why, because Catholics and

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Speaker 1: Protestants seem really similar, They have the same deity, They

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Speaker 1: just have minor differences in how they perform rituals. But

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Speaker 1: that was enough to turn the soil red all over

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Speaker 1: Europe for literally hundreds of years. So you look back

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Speaker 1: at these historical conflicts where thousands or millions of people died,

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Speaker 1: and we find ourselves hard pressed to feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was totally worth it for people to give up

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Speaker 1: their one shot at existence and happiness. With a little

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Speaker 1: bit of historical distance, it seems tragic that a person

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Speaker 1: gave up a life with his family as parents, his

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Speaker 1: children because he was so suffused in the moment with

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Speaker 1: the notion that he was right and the other group

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Speaker 1: was wrong. Now, I'm not making light of these kind

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Speaker 1: of decisions, because if we were there, we would presumably

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Speaker 1: understand and be fueled by these local reasons, like your

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Speaker 1: older brother died from being beaten to death by soldiers

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Speaker 1: on the other side, or your parents were murdered by

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Speaker 1: the other side, and we can easily understand the way

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Speaker 1: that boiling blood can take over your mental landscape and

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Speaker 1: define your life trajectory from that moment. I find that

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Speaker 1: very easy to understand. I get those feelings. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, let's just note that essentially every action movie

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Speaker 1: in our diet uses revenge as the plot engine because

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Speaker 1: it's so easy for us all to resonate with that.

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Speaker 1: So it's not to say that people didn't feel that

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Speaker 1: they had good reasons to fight to their mutual deaths,

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Speaker 1: but it's critical to assess what turns things around? What

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Speaker 1: is required for an entirely different level.

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Speaker 2: Of societal maturation.

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Speaker 1: Is it possible for individuals in a society to somehow

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Speaker 1: override this fundamental instinct for vengeance and to instead bridge

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Speaker 1: differences and rebuild a new level of society, a society

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Speaker 1: where a generation later the wounds start healing, and a

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Speaker 1: generation after that the scars start fading, and at some

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Speaker 1: point the anger and the hatred can't even be revivified.

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Speaker 2: What is required for that kind of bridge building to begin?

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Speaker 1: And what kind of people begin this process by reaching

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Speaker 1: their arms precariously across the chasm?

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Speaker 2: And this question I've been wondering about.

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Speaker 1: Led me recently to two extraordinary people who embody this

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Speaker 1: longer term thinking. One is Israeli, the other is Palestinian.

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Speaker 1: They both have extraordinary pain in their lives and they

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Speaker 1: are fighting, but they are fighting together for the next level,

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Speaker 1: for the level of recognizing the common humanity of each other.

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Speaker 1: They are coming at the situation with pain and love

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Speaker 1: and hope and a mission. They are fighting for the

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Speaker 1: future of the region instead of the past. Here are

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Speaker 1: Maoziinone and Aziz Abusera. So please tell us about your

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Speaker 1: personal stories and how you got to now.

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Speaker 3: A mesuelede and fody and years old. I live my

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Speaker 3: life in Israel, and I have my life before Tobel

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Speaker 3: seventh and after October seventh, I lost both my parents

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Speaker 3: and many many of my childhood friends, the parents, the

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Speaker 3: children that were killed okay up to Gaza. And since

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Speaker 3: then I began from a tour regime entrepreneur into a

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Speaker 3: piecing entrepreneur. I've been dialect dialogue in partnering, creating and

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Speaker 3: strengthening a new and old friendship with Palastinians from Gaza,

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Speaker 3: from Israel, from the West, back with Israelis from the

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Speaker 3: dispoa And like I'm saying now, which is completely the

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Speaker 3: opposite of what I said in the first few weeks,

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Speaker 3: in the first three few weeks after October seventh, I

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Speaker 3: said that nothing, nothing can prepare you for losing both

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Speaker 3: your parents, so many of your childhood friends. Nothing can

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Speaker 3: prepare you doing what to say and out what after

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Speaker 3: such an enormous loss and a tragedy. But then I

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Speaker 3: realized that all my life was just a preparation. I

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Speaker 3: was prepared. I was prepared for tobe the seven, and

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Speaker 3: sadly and ironically, I was prepared mostly by my parents.

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Speaker 3: My parents prepared me to the moment of the death,

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Speaker 3: and I've been going through its spiritual and mind transformation

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Speaker 3: in the last it's nearly eight months, and as reason,

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Speaker 3: I began partners and very close friends. It's a very

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Speaker 3: powerful at least in my eye. And I was in

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Speaker 3: for us, for us, very powerful relationship and friendship. And

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Speaker 3: I I've been learning three lessons that hopefully we'll have

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Speaker 3: time that we I will be able to share the

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Speaker 3: three of them and hear it today. And also thank

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Speaker 3: you David for evingus. You cannot believe how important our empowering,

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Speaker 3: meaningful and supportive it is for us to be here

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Speaker 3: with you. I learned about hope, I learned about the future,

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Speaker 3: and I learned the importance of forgiveness. So that's on

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Speaker 3: a Natchell about myself and as ease.

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Speaker 4: I've heard my host tell this story multiple times and

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Speaker 4: it's always as powerful to hear it again. So I'm

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Speaker 4: from Jerusalem and Palestinian. I grew up in Jerusalem and

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Speaker 4: I lost my brother who was killed when I was

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Speaker 4: ten years old and he was nineteen years old. He

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Speaker 4: was arrested and suspicion of throwing rocks, and he was

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Speaker 4: beaten up by soldiers until he would confessed, which resulted

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Speaker 4: in his death after he was right after he was released.

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Speaker 4: And so I, unlike my Os, I wasn't ready. I

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Speaker 4: was ten years old. I wasn't prepared, and I didn't

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Speaker 4: know I even had a choice other than if somebody

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Speaker 4: kills your brother, you go after them. If somebody hurts

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Speaker 4: your family, you go after them. And for the next

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Speaker 4: eight years that was my life. I was very angry,

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Speaker 4: I was very bitter, and all I saw it was revenge.

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Speaker 4: It almost felt like if somebody punches you in the face,

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Speaker 4: your first reaction is to punch back. And mine unlike Moos,

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Speaker 4: which in a couple of weeks, he was able to

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Speaker 4: before even a couple of weeks, within a few days,

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Speaker 4: he was able to speak about peace and to speak

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Speaker 4: about you know when we talk together after and he said,

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Speaker 4: I'm still I'm crying for kids in Gaza, like I

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Speaker 4: am crying for my parents right now, saying I don't

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Speaker 4: want people to revenge. I didn't have it in me

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Speaker 4: for eight years to come anywhere close to that. And

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Speaker 4: so I'm always amazed by Maos's bravery and ability to

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Speaker 4: do that. But yeah, eight years after, I went to

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Speaker 4: study Hebrew in an open not by choice, but because

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Speaker 4: if you live in Jerusom don't speak Hebrew, you really

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Speaker 4: can't get to work. You can study, you can do anything.

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Speaker 4: And I was eighteen, and in that classroom I first

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Speaker 4: met Israelis and Jews who were not soldiers. And as

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Speaker 4: nice as a soldier could be, he can tell me

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Speaker 4: to pass or not, they're carrying a gun. You can't

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Speaker 4: really have a dialogue with a soldier. And in that

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Speaker 4: classroom I had my first meaningful conversations with people you know,

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Speaker 4: see on the other side. And in those conversations, I

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Speaker 4: realized that I do have a choice, that actually the

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Speaker 4: person who killed my brother was not just killing my brother.

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Speaker 4: It was controlling my life for the last eight years.

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Speaker 4: And I've let him make the choices for me. Every

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Speaker 4: time I chose to be angry, every time I chose

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Speaker 4: to hate, every time I chose revenge because of him,

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Speaker 4: and I let that anger make me want to do

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Speaker 4: something bad. I was being his slave. I was being

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Speaker 4: following his choices, not mine, and realizing that I wanted

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Speaker 4: to free myself and make my own choices and go

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Speaker 4: on a path that is stay is different, that brings

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Speaker 4: down those barriers that divide us, the barriers of hate,

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Speaker 4: the barriers of anger, the barriers of fear, the barriers

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Speaker 4: of you know, all those things, and to reach out

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Speaker 4: to people on the other side and realizing we're not

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Speaker 4: really unopposite sides, that we can be on the same

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Speaker 4: side together. And that's how I see my relationship with Mouths.

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Speaker 4: Were not an Israeli and a Palestinian. Yes we are,

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Speaker 4: but we're not really an Israelian a Palestinian in a

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Speaker 4: nationalist term. We are both together working for the same

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Speaker 4: vision and the same mission.

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Speaker 1: Why do you suppose it's so rare what you guys

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Speaker 1: are doing? And I hope this picts up momentum, this

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Speaker 1: bridge building, but at the moment, it's not common.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think that is?

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Speaker 3: I think it's more common than the media or the public.

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Speaker 3: Is a way of especially the public and the discourse,

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Speaker 3: the international discourse in Palestin, in Israel, between the rivers

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Speaker 3: to the sea, there are so many organizations an individual

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Speaker 3: that walking on the ground to create a shared future.

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Speaker 3: As this was a co chairman of the Family Circle,

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Speaker 3: a group of believed families from both sides in Soneties

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Speaker 3: and Plastidia. And there is the competitor for peaces, people

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Speaker 3: who decided to choose a different way, not a violence resisted,

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Speaker 3: but a non violence resistance. And there is the Women

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Speaker 3: of the Sun and Women Watch Peace is Read in

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Speaker 3: Palestinian women movements. And we have standing together a Jewish

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Speaker 3: arable organization when with Israel that is now protecting humanitarian

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Speaker 3: aid trucks that are going to Gaza. So on the

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Speaker 3: ground there are so many. But and this is why

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Speaker 3: we're so thankful to your David and to do the

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Speaker 3: TED organizers for inviting us to open the TED twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four. Because we must have not just our voices

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Speaker 3: to be heard and to be amplified and using our

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Speaker 3: easier votes, we must be on the table where the

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Speaker 3: decisions are being made because we have been overlooked. The

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Speaker 3: civil society between the rivel to the to the sea

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Speaker 3: has been overlooked for so many years, too many years,

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Speaker 3: and we need to be there the decision are being

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Speaker 3: made in order to make this the last one. It's

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Speaker 3: as simple as that. So this is the journey. It's

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Speaker 3: not just the two of us, our coalition. Our partners

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Speaker 3: decided to take and to use our thorough our pain,

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Speaker 3: our orgony to dialogue, to partner for a better future.

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Speaker 4: I agree. I think there's many of us. We might

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Speaker 4: not be necessarily the majority right now, but that's because

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Speaker 4: right now people are hurt and people are in pain,

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Speaker 4: and not everybody. When people are afraid, and when people

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Speaker 4: are in pain and when people are suffering, it's hard

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Speaker 4: for us, you know, as a humans, to make to

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Speaker 4: make rational decisions. That's not only in our case. I

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Speaker 4: think that's everywhere in the world. People can cannot think

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Speaker 4: rationally in these times. And that's why our voices are

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Speaker 4: important this time, me Mas and many others like us

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Speaker 4: who are really trying hard. But I'll just agree with

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Speaker 4: MOUs it's not easy to get our voices across, whether

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Speaker 4: it's in the media, and so we need all the

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Speaker 4: help we can to amplify voices like ours. We need

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Speaker 4: all the help we can to let the world know

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Speaker 4: that we exist, and to let world leaders know we exist,

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Speaker 4: and to make sure, like Moos said earlier, we are

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Speaker 4: not sidelined. We look every peace agreement and the negotiations

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Speaker 4: that have happened beween Israelis and Palestinians so far with

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Speaker 4: the US, with Europe, peacemakers like us were not part

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Speaker 4: of it, and I think that's one of the reasons

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Speaker 4: things havn't worked out well so far. The stuff we

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Speaker 4: know about how to build relationships, the stuff we live,

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Speaker 4: and we know each other way better than anybody else

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Speaker 4: in this country know each other. We spend so much

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Speaker 4: time together. We talk, we don't always agree, we work

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Speaker 4: through disagreements. We know how to talk through tough communication stuff.

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Speaker 4: You know, we were in an event was a nine

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Speaker 4: and we've had not the two of us, but the

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Speaker 4: group of Palestinians of Israelis at disagreements, had hard moments

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Speaker 4: that or even tears, and that's fine. But we know

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Speaker 4: how to work through it, and our politicians don't know

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Speaker 4: how to work through it. And so if you know,

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Speaker 4: I don't want to sound a little too arrogant, but

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Speaker 4: if the experts on this are not invited to the

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Speaker 4: table when these conversations are happening, we shouldn't be surprised

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Speaker 4: that we are where we are today.

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Speaker 1: You guys are, of course correct that there are other

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Speaker 1: groups on the ground and that we don't hear about

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Speaker 1: them very much. One of the other organizations that we

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Speaker 1: met at TED this year was an Israeli Palestinian choir

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Speaker 1: of children who sing together.

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Speaker 2: That was extremely moving.

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Speaker 1: But why do you suppose that so many people are

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Speaker 1: interested in widening the gap as opposed to bridging the divide.

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Speaker 1: I can understand, and in the sense that, for example,

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Speaker 1: as he's with your story about the anger, or my

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Speaker 1: oles with your story, so many people feel an anger

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Speaker 1: that they can never let go. So what can we

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Speaker 1: do as a society to bring people from the widening

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Speaker 1: divide camp over towards the bridging camp.

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Speaker 4: I think I understand people anger. We have to relate

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Speaker 4: to people, not to attack them. I you know, somebody

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Speaker 4: asked me today, a journalist, how do I call somebody

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Speaker 4: in Gaza now and tell them about peace? And I said,

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Speaker 4: if I call someone in Gaza right now, I don't

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Speaker 4: start lecturing them about peace. If I do that, I'm

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Speaker 4: out of touch. I am, I'm being ridiculous If I

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Speaker 4: do that. The first thing is starts with listening to

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Speaker 4: people paint, listening to where they're coming from, crying with them,

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Speaker 4: feeling what they feel. That's very If we not with

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Speaker 4: people in their hard moments, then I'm gonna listen to us.

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Speaker 4: So that's that's I think a major part. You know,

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Speaker 4: one of the stories that was most touching to me.

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Speaker 4: I always like to share is this friend of mine

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Speaker 4: named antone goodman who works for Rabbis for human rights,

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Speaker 4: and right after October seventh, where he had friends being killed,

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Speaker 4: and he would go to the funerals and he will

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Speaker 4: leave the funerals and drive to the West Bank where

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Speaker 4: Palestinians he knew there were being attacked by settlers and

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Speaker 4: he would bring them whatever they need because they weren't

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Speaker 4: able to buy supplies. They didn't have food, they didn't

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Speaker 4: have water, and they were in terrible situation. He was

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Speaker 4: leaving a funeral of one of his friends and driving

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Speaker 4: into the West Bank and being with these people. And

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Speaker 4: that's how you really beat that hate and that fear,

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Speaker 4: and that you know, that divide by being there, by

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Speaker 4: being with people, by showing that you care. You mentioned

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Speaker 4: I always mentioned earlier, standing together and being out in

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Speaker 4: the streets. You know, peacemaking isn't just in a room,

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Speaker 4: isn't just in a comfort. You're out with people in

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Speaker 4: the streets, You're out with them, seeing where the need

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Speaker 4: is and saying we will do action together, when when

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Speaker 4: Mahos says hope is an action. I look at these

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Speaker 4: people and I send those videos to friends of mine, Palatinians,

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Speaker 4: friends of mine, and they see it and they they

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Speaker 4: are amazed.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: I had one Palacinian friend come at ted to the

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Speaker 4: meeting with standing together, and I had to convince him

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Speaker 4: to come. I was like, come on, it will be

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Speaker 4: really good, and this is I don't know if I

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Speaker 4: want to hear another.

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Speaker 3: Is right now.

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Speaker 4: And I kept pushing him and he came with me

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Speaker 4: and halfway through Uri was speaking from standing together, and

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Speaker 4: halfway through the talk he leansward me and he goes,

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Speaker 4: I want this guy to be our president, the Palestinian president.

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Speaker 4: And he was amazed by the conversation. He's like the

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Speaker 4: way he speaks, the compassion he has, the empathy he

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Speaker 4: has so to me, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: being with people, crying with them, being there, helping wherever

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Speaker 4: there is need, but also telling people's stories. You know,

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Speaker 4: people who listening to us right now might not be

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Speaker 4: able to be underground, but they can pass these stories

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Speaker 4: and nothing changes who we are, Nothing really moves us

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Speaker 4: more than stories. And John Paul Ledrac, one of the

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Speaker 4: fathers of conflict resolution, Field used to say, when you're

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Speaker 4: in an intractable conflict and feel nothing is working, you

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00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 4: still have the stories that you can share and those

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Speaker 4: stories will eventually make Those stories will eventually reach people

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Speaker 4: hearts and make a change. So people can take my story,

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Speaker 4: they can take Masa's story, they can take Antone story,

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Speaker 4: they can take standing together stories, they can take there

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Speaker 4: are so many of these stories. If they share them,

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Speaker 4: we can bring that divide much much less and understand

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Speaker 4: that there is a way to work together. And as

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Speaker 4: I must say, he's also walking the walk. He's not

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Speaker 4: just talking the top because as he approached me on

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00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 4: the oktob eight sending me a message on my Facebook

438
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 4: and we ever met before, we met only for two minutes,

439
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 4: maybe a decade ago, and we knew each other since

440
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 4: being in the same industry in tourism. But as this

441
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 4: approached me on What'sapp and said, I'm sending my condolescence

442
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 4: and I just want you to know that I'm with you,

443
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 4: and I immediately reply with a broken art And two

444
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 4: days after, I think we spoke for the first time

445
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 4: ever one on one on WhatsApp or Google me, and

446
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 4: then we've done a webinar together, And you cannot believe

447
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 4: it's very difficult to pay condolescence in general. Okay, if

448
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 4: it's for your neighbor, a class and made friend, it's

449
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 4: very difficult to go to a wet ceremony or pick

450
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 4: up the phone and send your condolescence. So can you

451
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 4: imagine how difficult I knew how difficult it is for

452
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 4: a Palestinian to pay its convalescence to me. And the

453
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 4: only npiece ignested members in Israel that caught my family

454
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 4: well Arab parliament members.

455
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: None of the Jewish Israeli parliament members ever called us.

456
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 3: He didn't send us a letter, nothing, what's up message? Nothing,

457
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 3: So it's this is bravery. This is bravery, and I

458
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 3: must match it. I just must as a human as

459
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 3: I had to match it. And of course to start

460
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: this dialogue, very difficult dialogue. And and that's a reason

461
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: I get connected. And we are brothers in pain, in sorrow,

462
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: and and we also brothers in in the know how

463
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 3: the importance of dialogue, the importance of knowing the other

464
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 3: side negative, not necessarily agreed not to agree on the

465
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: other side, negative, but just a way that there is

466
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: another narrative. And then together we are building a new narrative,

467
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 3: a narrative of the future. And this is what we

468
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 3: are focusing all our energy.

469
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: Now, Moos, you mentioned earlier that you had learned three lessons.

470
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: Tell us about that.

471
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 3: So the first two lessons I learned from our mutual thread.

472
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: Now Ramsi a Palestinian peace activist and peacemakers, and he

473
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 3: was interviewed with my brother again to the CNN with

474
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: Christian Aman Paul, and Christian asked him Ramsey, well do

475
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: you find hope? It was after October seven when the

476
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: war on Gazza wage in a dramatic and castostophic numbers

477
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 3: and news arrived any old there, I don't find it.

478
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 3: I created hope is an action, and together with hamsi

479
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 3: as It and others, we came out with a formula.

480
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 3: A simple formula might be difficult to execute by very simple.

481
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: For how we are creating hope, it's starting that we

482
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 3: create up together. You can never create up on your own,

483
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: Just like love, you must have partners. And then we

484
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 3: must envision a better future and act to make this

485
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 3: future into reality and prove ourselves that our actions are effective.

486
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 3: That's it. That's how you create hope, because if our

487
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 3: actions are effective, it means we're going to reach this

488
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 3: envisioned future. So this is what we are doing now,

489
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 3: and we help others frame the work and their efforts

490
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 3: und the notion that they are creating hope. They are

491
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 3: not coming to us or speaking to us to find

492
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 3: to look or that will give it them hope. They

493
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 3: are creating hope the oralization we may, but also so

494
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 3: many others, and this is our hope is being created.

495
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: This second lesson I let from Ramseh. It was when

496
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 3: he said that he's willing to forgive about the past,

497
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 3: he's willing to forgive about the present, but he won't forgive,

498
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: not to himself and to no one else about the future.

499
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 3: And this is a very fundamental sentence and phrase. What

500
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 3: does it mean forgive and to whom about the past

501
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 3: and the present? That's what I ask myself, and I

502
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 3: realized that in order to build the future, I must forgive.

503
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: The easy answer was I need to forgive. Hamas Hamas

504
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: push the trigger in my narrative, Hamas kill my parents.

505
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 3: Hamas is a fundamentalist extusimist organization that is oppressing and

506
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 3: killing his own people and innocent people in general. And

507
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 3: it was my parents' misfortune and bad luck that Hamas

508
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 3: kill them. But all my anger, I was seeking revenge.

509
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 3: I wanted to punish. I was blaming those who I

510
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: held accountable for the killing of my parents and my friends.

511
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: And this is the Israeli government. This is raally government

512
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 3: has promised us, the Israelis, the Jewish is realiest again

513
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 3: and again, security and safety, and they didn't do to

514
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 3: the promise. So I want to punish them. But those

515
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: feelings were destroying me from the inside. I stopped. I

516
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 3: literally stopped functioning as a father, as a husband. I

517
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: become sick physically and mentally. But after listening to Hamsey,

518
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 3: I said, maybe I need to forgive them in order

519
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 3: to cure myself not to be sick. So I've decided

520
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 3: it's a decision forgiveness. Unlike reconciliation, forgiveness is something you

521
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 3: can do on your own. It's not a dialogue. You

522
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 3: can make a decision to forgive. Reconciliation is a process

523
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: which we must choose as people. I've decided to forgive

524
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 3: this is Raelic government, which was for me a breakthrough

525
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 3: and when I'm telling it to Israelis Jewish Israelis, they

526
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 3: cannot believe it. They cannot believe it. Like when I'm

527
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 3: speaking to my friends in Gaza, they say, we will

528
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 3: never forgive Ramas, we will never forgive from us, but

529
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 3: we must. We must in order to build the future.

530
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 3: And the third lesson is about the future. The gap

531
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 3: between as this story and my stories, this Israeli is

532
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 3: as Palestinian, has never been as wide as today. It's

533
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 3: never as been as white. The gap is huge, but

534
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 3: and it's the biggest but I ever encountered in my life.

535
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: There is a miracle. Our store is meet the Israelies

536
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 3: and Palestinian store is meat in the future future that

537
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 3: is based on this only a common ground share principles acknowledged,

538
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: acknowledgment and recognition, equality and dignit, reconciliation and healing, security

539
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 3: and safety. We meet in the future. And I didn't

540
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 3: came up with those principals on my own. We built

541
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: it together as Is and myself and seventy others Palestinian

542
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 3: and Israelis. We gathered for seventy two hours with a

543
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 3: two Geneva based organizations, Beto Hope and Principals for peace,

544
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 3: and we wrote a chilter one page child, but a

545
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 3: very profound, very inspiring one chilter that is dealing only

546
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 3: with the principles of the future and now what we

547
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 3: should do. And David, I sis, our well parties, we

548
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 3: need together to take our people there, to take humanity

549
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 3: to this future. And I don't believe that it's possible.

550
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 3: I know that it's possible.

551
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm going to link the Charter for

552
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: the Future sure in the show notes so everyone can

553
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: access this and see this. And the really amazing news

554
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 1: is that what you guys are doing is working. It's

555
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: catching fire. You both recently met with a world leader.

556
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: Tell us about that.

557
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 4: An amazing world leader. We both met with Pope Francis.

558
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 4: Didn't just meet him, We got to hug him, which

559
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 4: is you know, I was telling my os the night

560
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 4: before we met him, as I know, we barely probably

561
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 4: gonna touch, you know, go and like shake his hands,

562
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 4: but my dream is to hug the pocon and he

563
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 4: pulled us in to do that. But it was very meaningful.

564
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 4: It was very meaningful because he is a very influential man.

565
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 4: He's a you know, billions of people listen to his

566
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 4: voice and what he has to say, and world leaders

567
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 4: listen to him. He's going to be attending the G

568
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 4: seven meeting, for example, and so we wanted to have

569
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 4: our voices and our stories presented to him, and he

570
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,959
Speaker 4: responded in such a powerful way.

571
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 3: He hugged us.

572
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 4: He told people to take a moment of silence and

573
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 4: reflect and how they can help us. There were over

574
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 4: twelve thousand people in the gathering in an arena depache

575
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 4: in Verona. He then talked about how war is not

576
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 4: a solution, how war only creates more misery and more suffering,

577
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 4: which is exactly what we believe and realize. We align,

578
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 4: We align fully, and so we very grateful and honestly,

579
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 4: the question is why other leaders are not inviting us

580
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 4: to talk to them as well. This is you know,

581
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 4: G seven going to be discussing Israel and Palestine, but

582
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 4: our voices are not there as of now, and we're

583
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 4: hoping that they realize how important it is to hear

584
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 4: people like Malos and me and others. It doesn't have

585
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 4: to be the two of us, but somebody should be

586
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 4: there from our community, and the absence of that voice

587
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 4: is not helpful at all, so, yeah, I was how

588
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 4: they feel for humans.

589
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: It's I'm still digesting was happening there on the stage seriously,

590
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 3: But now I'm honest and humid enough to say that

591
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 3: this was a life changing event for me. But at

592
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 3: the same time, we made this story because the pope

593
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 3: a message was so profound about the importance of conflict

594
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 3: in order to rise, to evaluate, to improve humanity. But

595
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 3: it's up to us, humanity, humans to choose how to

596
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 3: solve those conflicts through war or through dialogue, and it's

597
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 3: our decision to make and if we choose, and again

598
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 3: it's in the family life, in business, partnership, neighborhood and

599
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 3: between nations. When we choose to solve the conflicts through dialogue,

600
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 3: it's empowering. We are rising, were evolving through this dialogue

601
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 3: and hearing pop Forensics saying that gave me so much energy,

602
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 3: just believing in as Seas and I, but in our

603
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 3: coalition and organization that we are working with the strength

604
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 3: the strengths of the past. We choose, and we choose

605
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 3: the path of dialogue, of reconciliation, of partnership. And before

606
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 3: the going on stage, we were asked by many of

607
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 3: the Italian journalists, is peace possible? And we kept telling

608
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 3: them you are the answer. The twelve thousand piece builders,

609
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: that they are the departure of the answer, because eighty

610
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 3: years ago there was one wedging in Europe. Millions, tens

611
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: of millions were killed in Europe, and we came to

612
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: every honor from Brassel and everywhere you go, you see

613
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 3: the same flag of the EU. Everyone are getting ready

614
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 3: for the U election. You don't pass any border control,

615
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 3: no passports between the EU that are being stamped using

616
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 3: the same currency. So Europe is the answer. And we

617
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 3: told them you're the answer that now we need your guidance,

618
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: your support to envision with us the future between the

619
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 3: river and the sea. And it was very very powerful moment.

620
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: When we look around right now, what we see are

621
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: young people taking clear sides. But what do you guys

622
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: think is the right way to get young people to

623
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: take the side of bridge building and think about how

624
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: to do that.

625
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 4: I actually want to start on kind of building and

626
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 4: what ma O's mentioned a bit earlier in answering that one.

627
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 4: I'm always happy when young people are active. I'm a

628
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 4: bit disagree when people say, oh, they shouldn't protest, they

629
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 4: shouldn't be out. We want the compassion, We want them

630
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 4: to care, we want them not to be apathetic. But

631
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 4: we also want to try to help guide that momentum

632
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 4: into making a change and making sure it doesn't lead

633
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 4: into hatred, it doesn't lead into more polarization. And there's

634
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 4: a thin line between one sometimes and the other. And

635
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 4: so we want to be part of making sure that yes,

636
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 4: people are out, people are expressing their opinions. Look, I'm

637
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 4: very grateful for the Israelis for protesting. So I always

638
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 4: say the faces when I see somebody like my o's

639
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: and somebody like standing together and somebody like women wish

640
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 4: peace out in the street, that gives me straight, That

641
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 4: gives me hope. And so I can't come to America

642
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 4: and tell people, well, but you shouldn't do it. But

643
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 4: let's think together what makes a difference. So I would

644
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 4: start with what Mao's mentioned. I think narratives are so important.

645
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 4: Understanding the narratives, understanding the stories, get yourself to know

646
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 4: where where the sides are coming from, and understand that

647
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 4: are difference. But let's think not only of the differences

648
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 4: of the past, but also of how can we move

649
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 4: together towards the future, making sure we work together Jew's, Muslims,

650
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 4: Christians and not be this is a Muslim group, and

651
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 4: this is a Jooshi group and so on. And I

652
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 4: know this because in my in my journey, learning the

653
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 4: Israeli narrative was extremely, extremely important. This is why I

654
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 4: started Measurey tours where I take people with the all

655
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 4: narratives and get people to understand the two narratives. And

656
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 4: I watch people who are angry one sided Israelis or Palestinians,

657
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 4: pro Israelis or pro Palestinians come in the tour and

658
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 4: leave really transformed, not necessarily changing every political view, but

659
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:23,399
Speaker 4: having more compassion and having more empathy. So that's where

660
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 4: you start. You start with learning the narrative. And secondly

661
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 4: you start learning what you can organize and how you

662
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 4: can organize in a way that can make pressure and

663
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 4: can make a difference. And so I've been working actually

664
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 4: with some of the campuses, being talking to people who

665
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 4: work in those campuses, talking to few conflict resolutions experts,

666
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 4: and I think in some campuses it has worked incredibly.

667
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 4: A dialogue has worked well between the university and the

668
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 4: universities and the students and the administration. I was involved

669
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 4: in one before this that was, you know, as speaker

670
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 4: was invited that the students didn't like, and so that

671
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 4: speaker is very anti Palestinians, and they wanted to make

672
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,439
Speaker 4: it clear that the university that they're not happy about

673
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 4: the choice. The administration didn't know really what to do

674
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 4: and reached out. I worked with the president of the

675
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 4: university and with my colleagues and negotiating between the sides,

676
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 4: and we ended up coming out with really an amazing

677
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 4: solution where the students were recognized for their objection of

678
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 4: the speaker, but they had a space to do that

679
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 4: within the program, where before the speaker got unstaged, they

680
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 4: were told, you know, we understand you have some concerns.

681
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 4: You're not happy about our choice, and we know that

682
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 4: some of you don't feel comfortable being here with the

683
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 4: commencement speaker for this year, and if you would like

684
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 4: to leave, we understand that. And their grievance is were

685
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 4: shared with everyone in the room. Some of them got

686
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 4: up and left, The speaker got on stage did her talk.

687
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,439
Speaker 4: There were not a one disturbance through the whole time,

688
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 4: and everyone was happy about that resolution. I think we

689
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 4: jumped very quickly into accusations and into positions, and into

690
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 4: even sometimes looking and those stories of like the one

691
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 4: story we don't like and instead of looking for how

692
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 4: do we negotiate and come up with solutions that works

693
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 4: for everyone. If you have concerns, you're not happy, that

694
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 4: is fine. We should respect that, and let's talk about

695
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 4: how can we work together and what can be done

696
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 4: and what the university can be with the students and

697
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 4: for the students to be also paragmatic, and you know

698
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 4: which is harder to do sometimes on eighteen and nineteen

699
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 4: year old I remember myself in those times. But honestly,

700
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 4: there's so much possibilities of solutions that are just not

701
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 4: being executed. And partially because on American campuses it very

702
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 4: quickly became a political big thing and every leader of

703
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 4: every party, every extremeists start showing up and campuses and

704
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 4: you have people shouting at each other and you don't

705
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 4: come to solutions doing that.

706
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 3: Also, David, if it's okay, I'm inviting universities and students

707
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 3: to approach us. It can be as easy I through

708
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,919
Speaker 3: our social media or it's very very easy to find

709
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 3: us and reach out, and it's not just as easy.

710
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 3: And I there are so many now that we have

711
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 3: like an intelligation teams, but are still in his realities

712
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 3: that can come all through webinars, all physically to your universities,

713
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 3: to all communities, to your walking place, and we can

714
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 3: help you because then you will lelp us. It's it.

715
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 3: We are all in it together. So please, this is

716
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 3: exactly what we want to offer. Also because we think

717
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 3: we know from our own experience the importance of dialogue,

718
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 3: the importance of knowing the other side narrative, not to agree,

719
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 3: but knowing the other side negative in order to build

720
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: a shared society. Those who say we are pro Israelis,

721
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 3: we are poor partistans. We are produced, we are brought that.

722
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 3: I always tell them, you're right, and you choose the

723
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 3: right side. Of course, you choose the right side. By

724
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 3: choosing the right side, we are ensuring the wall will continue.

725
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 3: It's as simple as that. It's very sad, but it's

726
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 3: as simple as that. If you want the bloodshed to end,

727
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 3: the world to end, you must choose the peacemakers. You

728
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 3: must choose humanity, you must choose dialogue. And this is

729
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 3: what so many of us, between the evidence to the

730
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 3: sea already have decided to choose the world with But

731
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 3: if will be amplified, if we'll be supported by others,

732
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 3: we're going to reach and lasting sooner. So it can

733
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 3: be done and it's not that difficult.

734
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 4: So yeah, we've been We've been going to like corporates,

735
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 4: we've been going to universities, We've been doing a lot

736
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 4: of webinars as well, and talking about how to have

737
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 4: a hard conversation. How do you deal with what is Islamophobia?

738
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 4: What is anti Semitism? How do we counter that? How

739
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 4: do we make sure we have those conversations without falling

740
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 4: into these tropes. And that's important because many of us, honestly,

741
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 4: this expectation that everyone knows what is what is ridiculous.

742
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 4: We have hard questions to ask and I enjoy doing,

743
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 4: for example, the Islamophobia training because I realized so many

744
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 4: people go like, part of the discussion is people going

745
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 4: so if I say this, so if I think that,

746
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 4: but what about this idea? And you have an honest

747
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 4: and transparent discussion and those you know, the teams, that

748
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 4: intervention teams that Maos is talking about. That's what we're

749
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 4: doing is going around saying we want to help instead

750
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 4: of fighting and arguing and all of that, please invite us.

751
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 4: We can support you, We can be there for you

752
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 4: in those kind of situations, and we have people who

753
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 4: are the best at doing that. It's not fortunately, it's

754
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 4: not just mouths and eye because that's not enough. There

755
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 4: are others who are doing incredible work with us and

756
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 4: incredible theams.

757
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 2: So tell me what you guys are doing right now then.

758
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 3: So now, after envisioning the future and sharing the dream

759
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 3: of peace between the river and the sea and reaching

760
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 3: a common ground and shared values, we are broadening our coalition.

761
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 3: Now this is the third step, is to broad out coalition.

762
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 3: So we walk on the ground between the river and

763
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 3: the sea, and we are also being supported and reached.

764
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 3: We are reaching out to international community like would lead there,

765
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 3: like pop puances, but we are reaching out too many

766
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 3: more to broad out coalition of the future. This is

767
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,760
Speaker 3: what we are do talking about about a better future.

768
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 3: And we have a world map, a blueprint, a plan

769
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 3: how to reach this future, and we put some milestones.

770
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 3: There are some milestones that we are going to. First

771
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 3: milestone is amplifier voices. Amplify our voices, share our tato,

772
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 3: share this podcast, share our meeting, and the only ad

773
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 3: with the Pope, so people, more and more people throughout

774
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 3: the world will know that there are more and more

775
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 3: people that believe that peace between the river and disease possible.

776
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 3: And the second milestone is to build legitimacy to the

777
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 3: priest process and to ask as reason myself to but

778
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 3: also to our coalition members, build legitimacy as the leaders

779
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 3: of the future. And in order to also do that

780
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 3: on the ground, we are doing in Israel the biggest

781
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 3: piece event that was held in two decades. We oriented

782
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 3: the biggest indoor arena in Tel Aviv, and on July first,

783
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 3: we're gonna do event that is going to be branded

784
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 3: It's about time. It's about time to make peaces. It's

785
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 3: a people processed But we are also being supported and

786
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 3: protected by some of the most influential people in the world.

787
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 3: And we're walking simultaneously in Palestine and in Israel, and

788
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 3: we still Chrohnaze between us and in order if you

789
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 3: won't wish and are ready to help and join us,

790
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 3: join one of the organizations we mentioned before. We do

791
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 3: so many webinars, we do so much walk on the

792
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 3: ground and online, So join us and also and support us.

793
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 4: And I'll add only a couple of things. I agree obviously,

794
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 4: every thing in the amplifying our voices. We are working

795
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 4: and having short videos that will be released, some of

796
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 4: them starting next month, of voices like oz and mine,

797
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 4: and we need people to share those. We need people

798
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 4: to amplify those to make sure they get to everybody.

799
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 4: We're not just saying share my voice and US's voice.

800
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 4: We want to make sure people know it's not just

801
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 4: the two of us. So please do that, and to

802
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 4: do that, follow us, and we will keep you posted

803
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 4: on it. I would say, invite us to invite your

804
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 4: community and do a webinar with some of the people

805
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 4: we mentioned. We have this one person who reached out

806
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 4: to us a couple of months ago and she said, look,

807
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 4: I don't have a lot of money to donate, I

808
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 4: don't have a lot of things I can do, but

809
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 4: can I organize a webinar? And you know, I'll help

810
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 4: you with the donation to do that, but I'm going

811
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 4: to invite twenty of my friends, and those twenty that

812
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 4: attended ended up, each one of them inviting their own friends.

813
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 4: And this one person, starting with the twenty fifteen twenty people,

814
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 4: is now reaching potentially hundreds of people, and who knows

815
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 4: how many more because she took that initiative, and really

816
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 4: just people being willing to take an initiative. Our work

817
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 4: is heavily focused on making our voices heard and educational

818
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 4: and if we can everyone can help with that. And

819
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 4: I think maybe maybe I'll just add one more thing.

820
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 4: We both are travel entrepreneurs, right. We both want to

821
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 4: invite people, which I know now maybe is a bit harder,

822
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 4: although we are doing a couple of trips a year

823
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 4: to just still bring people and listen to us. I

824
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 4: found this poem and I want to read it and

825
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,399
Speaker 4: Noma as if you heard it before. It's by something

826
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 4: I'll class them, and it's about traveling, and I like

827
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 4: it because it's it speaks kind of our story, but

828
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 4: I think it speaks to everyone, and it says that

829
00:53:59,120 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 4: they am killed.

830
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 3: My killer.

831
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 4: Rifling through my pockets will find travel tickets, one to peace,

832
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 4: one to fields and the rain, and one to the

833
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 4: conscience of a humankind. I beg you, my dear killer,

834
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 4: don't ignore them, don't waste such a thing, but take

835
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 4: and use the tickets.

836
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 3: Please.

837
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 4: I beg you to go traveling. And I love this

838
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 4: ticket with this poem because Like I said, we both

839
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,240
Speaker 4: are travel entrepreneur. We're all about traveling, but the traveling.

840
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 4: We want to encourage everyone who listening to us, regardless

841
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 4: where they come from, even the killers of our loved ones,

842
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 4: to travel like somethingle clossoms say, to travel to peace,

843
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 4: to travel to the consciousness of a humankind, to travel

844
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 4: to do something good and change even the meaning of

845
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 4: what travel is.

846
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: Thank you both so much and together, let's keep amplifying

847
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 1: the message as is.

848
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 3: You took my word the way. I just want to

849
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 3: tell you that I love you.

850
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 4: I love you too, man, it's all I'm always happy

851
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 4: when I see your face.

852
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 3: Thank you, bud It.

853
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: That was Aziz Abusa and Mao Zion, two extraordinary men.

854
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: There are lots of opinions on the conflict in the

855
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 1: Middle East, and there's no shortage of really tough and

856
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 1: angry feelings. But to me, this feels like the mature

857
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 1: conversation that needs to be had.

858
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 3: Now.

859
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: You may be surprised that I just did an episode

860
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: on the Middle East conflict and didn't propose any.

861
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 2: Particular political solution. That is on purpose.

862
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: The Middle East has a particularly complex relationship, and this

863
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: is evidenced by a fact that we've all seen that

864
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: you can reach in and pull out many paths, many

865
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: narratives from the history as far as what should happen next.

866
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: Many of you will have opinions, conflicting strong opinions, and

867
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: some of you will write to me and tell me

868
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: that I'm blind, and that you know which side is

869
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 1: right and the other is wrong. I'll receive the arguments

870
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: on both sides of this, and you know what, You're right,

871
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:19,399
Speaker 1: whatever your.

872
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 2: Opinion, You're all correct. There have been lousy, murderous, vengeful

873
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 2: decisions on all sides of this. But the fact is

874
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 2: we have human beings on all sides of this, and

875
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: almost all of them are people who care about their families,

876
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,439
Speaker 2: who want to be with their friends and the sun

877
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 2: and laugh, people who have dreams and hopes, and they

878
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 2: want to contribute and they want to play. And the

879
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 2: reason I'm less interested in the emails from all sides

880
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,439
Speaker 2: telling me I'm wrong is because there's only one thing

881
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 2: that matters, and that is where we go from here.

882
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: Can we build a better future or not.

883
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: Some people on the extremes of both sides envision that

884
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: the optimal future is the murder the total erature of

885
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: the other side, and that's easy enough to come to

886
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: that conclusion if your prefrontal circuitry is so suppressed that

887
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: you see the people on the other side like objects,

888
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: not worthy of all the consideration that we give other

889
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: human beings.

890
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 3: But people like.

891
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 2: Azis and Maos are operating at a higher level.

892
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: Political solutions will come out eventually, but meaningful solutions are

893
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: only going to come from people who start with a

894
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: position of common humanity. It hurts, there's so much pain

895
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: on both sides, but we have to find our way

896
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: to this position of bravery if we ever hope to

897
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: get out of this mess. Maos and Azis are excellent

898
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: examples of the height to which we all need to

899
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: up level our dialogue if we want to work through

900
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: tough problems as twenty first century citizens, because you cannot

901
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: get to a solution if you are two people shouting

902
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: each other from opposite sides of the negotiating table. Instead,

903
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: the only way to get somewhere is to scoot your

904
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: chairs around so that you're sitting with one another, both

905
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: facing the problem.

906
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 2: So while it's felt that much of the world.

907
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: Is interested in separating people into binary categories, today's episode

908
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: is about.

909
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 2: Asking the question of how we can expand our very

910
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 2: limited internal models.

911
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: To take into account what we have in common, to

912
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: expand our notion of in groups just a little bit

913
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: so that we can actually simulate the emotions of the

914
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: other person. And for those of us at a distance

915
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: from the Middle East, how can we support two sides

916
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: seeking threads between them which they can develop through hard

917
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: work into bonds of friendship and eventually love, cranking up

918
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: each other's prefrontal cortices so they can be seen once

919
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: again as people with similar desires and a shared story.

920
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: Go to eagleman dot com slash podcast for more information.

921
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: In case you're moved by what you heard from Azis

922
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: and Moos, I'm posting several links for ways that you

923
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: can throw your weight into their momentum. Please send me

924
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: an email at podcast at eagleman dot com with questions

925
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: or thoughts or ideas to help, and check out and

926
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 1: subscribe to Inner Cosmos on YouTube for videos of each

927
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: episode and to leave comments.

928
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 2: Until next time. I'm David Eagleman, and this is Inner Cosmos.