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Speaker 1: Golf up under center, turns, takes the jimi or sets

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Speaker 1: in the pocket, throws in the middle, foot rights over, touchdown.

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Speaker 1: Detroit lyons. Welcome to Week twelve season. I am two

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Speaker 1: twenty man. This is the twenty podcast. A lot of

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Speaker 1: you guys know the man. Next time, Will Birchfield on

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Speaker 1: air personality for ninety seven point one does a pregame

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Speaker 1: show for Fox two. You you got your hands a

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Speaker 1: little bit of everything, Yeah, kind of all across the board.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, jack of all trades, master of nine.

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Speaker 1: Well, before we talk about the New York Giants in

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Speaker 1: this week's opponent, let's look back a little bit to

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Speaker 1: Week eleven. Uh, Philadelphia. We have to we hits this

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Speaker 1: thing we do here. I know, we gotta look at

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously you know sixty to nine loss. Detroit

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Speaker 1: wanted to play better in a lot of areas. What's

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Speaker 1: the biggest concern for Will Birchfield coming out of Week

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Speaker 1: eleven in that game?

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Speaker 2: I think it's been the same concern for for me

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Speaker 2: for most of this season, which is the offensive line.

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Speaker 2: And I know we all knew, including this regime, that

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't be the same bullying, maulleying, unit that it

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Speaker 2: had been in years past. When you lose Frank Ragnow

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Speaker 2: and you lose Kevin Zeitler, and you plug in essentially

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Speaker 2: two rookies in Mahogany and Tate Ratledge, and you shift

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Speaker 2: Graham to center. But now, with Mahogany down, and with

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Speaker 2: Taylor Decker obviously battered, and with Graham hurting in his

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Speaker 2: own ways, as you and I both know just from

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Speaker 2: talking to him in the.

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Speaker 3: Locker room a little bit, it just hasn't been a strength.

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Speaker 2: And for me that's a concern because the identity of

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Speaker 2: this team, the backbone of this team has been the

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Speaker 2: offensive line, the ability to dominate teams in the trenches.

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Speaker 2: And when you see them against the two best defensive

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Speaker 2: fronts they face this year, Green Bay and Philadelphia, the

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Speaker 2: kind of fronts they might have to face in the

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Speaker 2: playoffs to make a run, you get a sense of

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Speaker 2: where they are versus where they were last year. So, look,

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Speaker 2: there's time that unit to still improve. I do think

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Speaker 2: that Miles Fraser could wind up being a boost for

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Speaker 2: this team come December. You know, I look at what

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Speaker 2: Mahogany did last year in very similar circumstances. He missed

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Speaker 2: all of training camp, had not practiced until the October,

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Speaker 2: gets activated right around now and had to step in

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Speaker 2: for injury. Glasgow in week fourteen played really well and

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Speaker 2: then played even better for Zeitler in a spot playoff start.

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Speaker 2: So there's reason to believe that Fraser could follow that

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Speaker 2: same trajectory. But to me, something has to happen for

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Speaker 2: that unit, for this team to get to where it.

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Speaker 4: Wants to go.

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Speaker 1: No, I agree with you one hundred percent, and particularly

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Speaker 1: the interior of that line. And like you had some

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Speaker 1: of the statistics of you know, when they play some

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Speaker 1: of these dominant units, just how they haven't performed to

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Speaker 1: the level that we've seen in years past. Will In

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Speaker 1: their six wins, they've allowed eight sacks and they've rushed

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Speaker 1: on average about one hundred and sixty nine yards per game.

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Speaker 1: In their four losses, twelve sacks three a game, and

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Speaker 1: the average per game rushing goes down to seventy Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know that to me is is the huge difference.

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Speaker 1: This is a football team that's built on running the football.

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Speaker 1: Everything they do on offense is predicated, you know, and

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Speaker 1: if they can't do it and can't do it consistently,

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Speaker 1: as we've seen in some of these losses, it's just

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Speaker 1: a whole different operation.

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Speaker 3: Offensively one one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think from the moment that Dan

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Speaker 2: got here back in twenty twenty one, he has always

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Speaker 2: highlighted the offensive line as kind of their signature strength.

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Speaker 2: And to me, it was a little telling this week

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Speaker 2: that when he was asked on the radio in ninety

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Speaker 2: seven to one during his weekly interview to name in

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Speaker 2: his mind this team's strength ten games into the year.

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Speaker 3: He listed a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: He listed their explosive skill players, he listed their quarterback,

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Speaker 2: he listed every aspect of quote, their freaking defense, even

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Speaker 2: listed some of their special teams coverage units. But he

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Speaker 2: did not list the offensive line. And that was kind

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Speaker 2: of an unstated way of saying that that's no law

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Speaker 2: Younger really an obvious asset for this team.

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Speaker 3: And I think it was just glaring.

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Speaker 2: At times on Sunday Night against the Eagles, especially in

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Speaker 2: some of those short yardage situations. You know, I go

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Speaker 2: back to a drive early in the second quarter, they

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Speaker 2: run the ball four times and on third and one

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Speaker 2: Gibbs get stuffed.

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Speaker 3: I think going to the right by.

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Speaker 2: Jalen Phillips and Jalen Carter, and then on fourth and

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Speaker 2: one they try running again up the gut and they

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Speaker 2: run behind Graham Glasgow, Tristan Cologne, and Kyote Awaska, which

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Speaker 2: is not Frank ragnow, Kevin Zeitler and Graham Glasgow, and

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Speaker 2: you know, probably not a surprise that Jalen Carter and Ojora,

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Speaker 2: who's a breakout defensive tackle, kind of collapse the line

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Speaker 2: and get home, get home for the stuff. And then

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Speaker 2: on fourth and goal from from the three in the

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Speaker 2: third quarter, you know, a similar scenario plays out where yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a surprise to see Penney Sewell get beat off

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Speaker 2: the right edge by Phillips, But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: I think it was Awaseika who got beat cleanly by

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Speaker 2: Jordan Davis another missmas. Because of that Jared couldn't quite

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Speaker 2: step up in the pocket. He would have had a

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Speaker 2: wide open Brock right over the middle for a walk

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Speaker 2: in touchdown had he had maybe a quarter second or

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Speaker 2: a half second longer to survey the field. Didn't have

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Speaker 2: that time, forces an incomplete throw to a completely covered

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Speaker 2: Saint Brown on the back.

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Speaker 3: Of the end zone.

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Speaker 2: And just in those critical game deciding moments, you get

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Speaker 2: a sense of how the offensive line isn't the beast

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Speaker 2: that it once was.

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Speaker 1: They knew they were gonna miss they knew they knew

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Speaker 1: they knew they were going to miss him, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know if they were realized they were going to

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Speaker 1: miss him this much. I mean, when you don't have

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Speaker 1: the best center in the game, it changes everything all

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Speaker 1: the way from the inside. It just changes the whole operation,

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Speaker 1: And that to me is the biggest loss. I just

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Speaker 1: I don't think they've they've recovered one hundred percent from

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Speaker 1: losing him yet, and they might not until they kind

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Speaker 1: of figure out the next piece in the center of

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Speaker 1: that offense.

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Speaker 2: Amazing, and how frequently he would take on not one,

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Speaker 2: but two blocks on a given play, Like he would

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Speaker 2: win his first block at the line and then go

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Speaker 2: pick off a linebacker in the second level. And that's

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Speaker 2: how so many of those two or three yard runs

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Speaker 2: became ten or twelve or sixty yard runs.

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Speaker 3: And he had Zeitler next to him doing the same thing.

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Speaker 2: So that just cleanness and dominance of blockinge and hasn't

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Speaker 2: quite been there this year.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned what Dan said about the defense in every level.

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Speaker 1: How impressed have you been always Shepherd and what he's

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Speaker 1: been able to do. What's been most impressive.

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Speaker 3: To you, Oh my gosh, I mean I all of it. Seriously.

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Speaker 2: It's and you know what they're doing this right now

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Speaker 2: without their number one corner, without their all pro safety,

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Speaker 2: without at times their number two corner, without maybe their

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Speaker 2: number two and three defensive ends, and Marcus Davenport and

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Speaker 2: Josh Pascal.

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Speaker 3: All of whom are nearing returns.

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Speaker 2: So as good as his defense has been, it's poised

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Speaker 2: to only get better down the stretch. And you know,

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Speaker 2: the numbers over the season are obviously impressive now fifth

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Speaker 2: in the NFL and yards allowed, but especially over the

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Speaker 2: last four games.

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Speaker 3: Some numbers for you allowed an average.

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Speaker 2: Of two hundred and sixty seven point four yards over

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Speaker 2: the court of this season that would rank second bash

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Speaker 2: in the NFL, and just four point three six yards

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Speaker 2: per play, which would rank first. And you know they've

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Speaker 2: they've played some some pretty impressive offenses, at least on

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Speaker 2: paper during that stretch, including the one they faced Sunday night.

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Speaker 3: And just a way that is it has withstood.

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Speaker 2: Injuries and kept the standard high has been extremely impressive.

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Speaker 1: Top ten overall, top ten scoring, top ten in the

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Speaker 1: red zone, top ten rushing, top ten you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, going that'll do it. That's impressed me the

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Speaker 1: most is Kelvin identifying strengths and weakness, yes, and playing

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Speaker 1: to them. I think he identified very early on that

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Speaker 1: his linebackers and the depth that he has at linebackers

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Speaker 1: are strength along with their versatility. And so what does

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Speaker 1: he do? A lot of teams are playing nickel defense.

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Speaker 1: What's sixty percent of the time now Detroit's playing at

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Speaker 1: thirty seven fast? I checked the percentage because it's hard

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Speaker 1: to identify where the blitz is coming, if it's coming

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Speaker 1: with your linebackers, who's dropping into coverage, who's coming, and

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Speaker 1: how to identify, you know, pre snap those looks and

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Speaker 1: where guys are going to be and just realizing that

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Speaker 1: tailoring his defense to make that, you know, the centerpiece

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Speaker 1: of it, and then just getting great play from guys

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Speaker 1: that just step in. Yeah, you know, Thomas Harper, Whiteside,

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Speaker 1: Arthur More, you know, I mean guys we'd never heard of,

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Speaker 1: what was the legion of whom they nicknamed him, and

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Speaker 1: to still get quality play and you talked about it.

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Speaker 1: They're going to get DJ read back probably this week.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it's trending that way. Malcolm Rodriguez, you

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Speaker 1: can do some packages with him, adds to that linebacker depth.

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Speaker 1: Marcus Davenport's on the way, Pascal's on the way. So

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Speaker 1: to me, this is a championship level defense and we

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Speaker 1: haven't been able to say that in Detroit for for

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Speaker 1: quite a while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is almost an inverse right now of how

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Speaker 2: the seasons have typically gone under Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes,

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Speaker 2: for the offense has been leading the way, but this

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Speaker 2: year it feels like by the end of the season,

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Speaker 2: the defense will be this.

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Speaker 3: Team's calling card.

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Speaker 2: And you know, if the offense to operate at a

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Speaker 2: top ten level instead of maybe top three or top

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Speaker 2: two as they've been in the past, with this defense,

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Speaker 2: you know that might be good enough. And I love

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Speaker 2: your point about the linebackers because this is a throwback defense.

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Speaker 2: You don't see NFL teams, really football teams of any

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Speaker 2: kind these days, down to Pop Warner even deploying three

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Speaker 2: linebackers on almost every single snap, But Angeloni, Campbell, and

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Speaker 2: Barnes have all played at least ninety.

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Speaker 3: Percent of the snaps this year.

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Speaker 2: They're the only team in the NFL that has three

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Speaker 2: linebackers who have played at least five hundred defensive snaps

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Speaker 2: and no one else comes even close. And to me,

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Speaker 2: that's the biggest reason why they've been so stout against

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Speaker 2: the run. They can stay in base defense, largely because

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Speaker 2: of Derek Barnes's versatility, but also Brian Branch's versatility, his

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Speaker 2: ability to come down.

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Speaker 3: And cover guys in the slot when he needs to.

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Speaker 2: But that has made them a really difficult team to

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Speaker 2: run the ball against, and it allows them to make

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Speaker 2: offenses most of the time.

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Speaker 5: One dimension and al is a pretty good Yeah. I

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Speaker 5: can do it too, And I think Campbell's improved. He

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Speaker 5: still got some way to go. He wasn't asked to

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Speaker 5: do that a lot at Iowa. That's something he's kind

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Speaker 5: of developing and he's getting better at it. So I

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Speaker 5: just love the versatility of that unit.

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Speaker 2: Hey, one more for you before I forget just about

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Speaker 2: the run defense. Yeah, I think the three best running

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Speaker 2: backs they face this year Josh Jacobs, Derek Henry, Saquon Barkley.

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Speaker 3: If that agree is fair enough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those three guys against this defense fifty seven carries

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Speaker 2: for two hundred.

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Speaker 3: And nine yards a three point seven average. I mean,

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Speaker 3: they're they're making all pro all world running backs look average.

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Speaker 3: That's a hard thing to do.

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Speaker 1: Very hard thing to do offensively. They seem to have

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Speaker 1: locked something here, Yeah in Jmo. Yeah, and we've seen

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Speaker 1: it now a couple of weeks in a row with

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Speaker 1: these crossers. You know, we're so used to the down

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Speaker 1: the field threat with him, and obviously that's still going

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Speaker 1: to be a big part of it, but getting him

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Speaker 1: more involved in the short and intermedia, just getting the

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Speaker 1: ball in his hands. It seems like once Dan Campbell

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Speaker 1: took over play calling, that seemed to be a bigger emphasis.

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Speaker 3: I think we were.

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Speaker 2: All expecting and excited to see that this year based

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Speaker 2: on the way they talked about Jamo and training camp,

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Speaker 2: some on the way they used him in camp, and

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason, that version of him kind of disappeared

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Speaker 2: over the first two months of this season, and it's

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Speaker 2: been really invigorating to see it come back, because if

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Speaker 2: you can get him the ball, as you said in stride,

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Speaker 2: he is a threat to score from anywhere on the field,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of times those five yard ten yard

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Speaker 2: crossing routes are as dangerous, if not more than, you know,

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Speaker 2: the sixty yard post route. And I think it was

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Speaker 2: something that Ben Johnson did a really good job of

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Speaker 2: last year when JMO broke through for the first time

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Speaker 2: a thousand yard season. You know, he was running a wider,

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Speaker 2: more diverse route tree, as the coaches like to call it.

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Speaker 2: And if you look at his average depth of target

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three, his first

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Speaker 2: two seasons, when he was mostly just a vertical threat

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Speaker 2: or a decoy, it was really high, one of the

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Speaker 2: highest in the NFL. Well, last year under Ben Johnson,

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Speaker 2: it came down to about league average, right around eleven

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Speaker 2: point six, so middle of the pack, and that allowed

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Speaker 2: him to break through. You know, he housed a couple

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Speaker 2: plays where he was just running simple crossers or slants,

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Speaker 2: and with Johnny Mo calling plays over the first eight games,

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Speaker 2: that spiked back up to I think sixteen yards average

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Speaker 2: depth of target, which was one of the highest marks

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Speaker 2: in the NFL.

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Speaker 3: Under Dan Campbell, this is crazy.

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Speaker 2: It has come down to literally eleven point six where

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Speaker 2: it was last year in two games, and voila, there's

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Speaker 2: the explosive playmaker all across the.

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Speaker 1: Field, and now you get the running game rolling a

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Speaker 1: little bit more consistently. I think what we saw with

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Speaker 1: Goff and Saint Brown is a one off. You know

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Speaker 1: they're not going to be yet like that that extreme

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Speaker 1: tells us that's not And now when you get Jamo involved,

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Speaker 1: and I just think that unlocks something. But again, it

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Speaker 1: all starts with getting that consistent play up front, which

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Speaker 1: they got to do. All right, we'll look into New York.

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Speaker 1: What jumps out what maybe concerned you about the New

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Speaker 1: York Giants is maybe what we've been talking about with

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Speaker 1: the offensive line defensive mind.

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Speaker 3: Yet no, I think that's where I am.

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Speaker 2: You know, on paper, this is one of the best

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Speaker 2: that are best looking defenses in the NFL. On the

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Speaker 2: field not so much, right, but you know, defensive line,

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Speaker 2: the names on it, four first round picks, including two

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Speaker 2: top five picks, and despite Brian Burns and Dexter Lawrence

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Speaker 2: and Kevon Thibodeau and Abdul Carter, they've allowed I think

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Speaker 2: the fourth most points and fourth most yards in the

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Speaker 2: league and the most rushing yards per carry five and

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Speaker 2: a half.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of hard to make sense of.

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Speaker 2: And most of those guys have played in every game,

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Speaker 2: but it just hasn't come together. So what concerns me

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Speaker 2: is the possibility that Burns. You know can can have

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Speaker 2: a big day. He's having a huge year, thirteen sacks

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Speaker 2: in eleven games.

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Speaker 3: Second most in the NFL.

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Speaker 2: And then if he does what he's been doing and

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Speaker 2: one of those other three gets hot against a wounded

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Speaker 2: offensive line, that's where the Giants could pose some problems.

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Speaker 2: But I like this matchup for a defense that, as

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Speaker 2: we both agree, needs to run the ball.

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Speaker 3: They should be able to run it against that defensive fret.

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Speaker 1: Rather thirtieth along almost one hundred and fifty yards on

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Speaker 1: the ground per game. That's a lot of yards and

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Speaker 1: a lot of big plays. Now they're hurt on defense,

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Speaker 1: and I agree with you. I think that's the biggest

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Speaker 1: concern is those names up front along the defensive line.

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Speaker 1: But they're gonna get Jackson dartback this week, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's an interesting one to look at. A guy

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Speaker 1: who plays an aggressive style for a rookie. He'll take

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Speaker 1: some shots and he's not afraid of running the football

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Speaker 1: putting his head down. Now, he missed last week because

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Speaker 1: of a concussion, so he's got to be careful. Their

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Speaker 1: head coach talked about that this week, about showing him

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Speaker 1: some examples of some opportunities to slider, get out a

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Speaker 1: bouncer just to be smarter. But look, well he's got

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Speaker 1: over three hundred rushing yards, he's got seven touchdowns. I

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Speaker 1: think he's got a touchdown run in five straight games

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Speaker 1: that he's played. They're a much better football team when

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Speaker 1: he's on the field. And look, he can extend plays.

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Speaker 1: He's got some opportunities to, you know, make some plays

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Speaker 1: with his legs in the run game. And so look,

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Speaker 1: Detroit's ben good against quarterbacks like that. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: we look at what they did against Hurts, what they

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Speaker 1: did vinst Lamar. Yeah, three. But still, I think that's

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Speaker 1: an interesting dynamic that you have to worry about a

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Speaker 1: little bit if you're Kevin Shepard.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I bet when the Lions turn on the tape, the

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Speaker 2: coaches here, they've got a lot of respect for Jackson Dart.

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Speaker 2: I could see Dan Campbell watching this guy compete with

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Speaker 2: the moxie and fearlessness that he has and.

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Speaker 3: Just saying like, man, I like that, dude.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think we'll hear Campbell talk pretty highly

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Speaker 2: of Jackson Dart's competitiveness this week. And it's otherwise a

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Speaker 2: pretty ravaged offense. I mean, they're missing their their best

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Speaker 2: receiver in the league, neighbors who felt like he was

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Speaker 2: gonna be one of the best receivers in the league

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Speaker 2: this year. Obviously, camp Scataboo was a sensation. Pretty tough

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Speaker 2: to see him go down with a rather gruesome injury

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Speaker 2: as well, So you know, you feel like if you

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Speaker 2: can contain hurt they lacked the playmakers around him to

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Speaker 2: really or sorry, if you can contain Jackson dart yea,

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Speaker 2: you know, they lack the playmakers to really hurt you.

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Speaker 2: But he is a fun quarterback to watch, even if

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Speaker 2: from the stands or from the press box, you're gonna

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Speaker 2: have to be on your toes because plays that might

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Speaker 2: like they're destined to end in a sack or a

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Speaker 2: tackle for loss, All of a sudden, he breaks free

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Speaker 2: and he's lowering his shoulder and he's making a guy

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Speaker 2: miss and maybe it's a twelve yard game, so you

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Speaker 2: have to finish the play against a quarterback like him.

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Speaker 1: Zero for five on fourth down. It was a big,

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Speaker 1: you know, storyline of that game. Obviously one of the

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Speaker 1: bigger reasons why they lost. You convert, Yeah, a couple

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Speaker 1: of those third downs that were three to thirteen and

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Speaker 1: obviously if you if you convert one of those fourth

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Speaker 1: down maybe that game in Philadelphia is a little different.

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Speaker 1: Will you expect after a game like that, you expect

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Speaker 1: Campbell to be a little bit more conservative going forward

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Speaker 1: mile because I know.

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Speaker 2: If I were coaching, I would, But Dan is committed

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Speaker 2: to this this team's philosophy, and so I don't think

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Speaker 2: he would, and I don't think he should have to

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Speaker 2: against the defense like the Giants. Now, I think he

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Speaker 2: might moving forward against defenses like Phillies or like Green

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Speaker 2: Bays where there's a clear mismatch in the trenches or

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Speaker 2: the situation or the situation right sure your offense.

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Speaker 1: Is struggling, maybe you start to play that field position

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Speaker 1: points game.

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Speaker 2: No doubt, no doubt, And so I think in those

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Speaker 2: cases he might give it some more thought. I don't

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Speaker 2: think that he should or will have to against this defense.

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Speaker 2: But that was what I wrote yesterday. You know, we

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Speaker 2: do write you to sit here and talk on the

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Speaker 2: camera on the screen all day and into microphones. But

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Speaker 2: that was kind of my takeaway from Sunday night, is

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Speaker 2: that it might be time for Campbell to acknowledge the

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Speaker 2: shifting identity of this team and that this might be

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Speaker 2: a team, as we said, led by its defense from

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Speaker 2: here on now. And if that's the case, in tit

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Speaker 2: low scoring games, it might make more sense to to

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Speaker 2: kickfield goals and to to ac crew points that way

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Speaker 2: rather than chase touchdowns. I think over their first four

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Speaker 2: seasons year those fourth down attempts made sense so frequently

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Speaker 2: because they had one of the best offensive lines in

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Speaker 2: the NFL. And so if the NFL average on fourth

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Speaker 2: and short was closer to fifty percent, it was, it

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Speaker 2: was closer to two thirds in favor of the Lions.

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Speaker 2: Because of that advantage they had up front, they could

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Speaker 2: really move the line of scrimmage, and so it.

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Speaker 3: Changed the calculus.

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Speaker 2: But the calculus has changed again with a week weekend

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Speaker 2: wounded a line and with a really good defense, and

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Speaker 2: so maybe and some of these tighter, lower scoring games,

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Speaker 2: if they have those, ideally in the playoffs, that's where

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Speaker 2: you might see him take points or punt instead of

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Speaker 2: chase those extra first downs.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think he'll kind of re

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Speaker 1: evaluate week to week and game to game and an

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Speaker 1: opponent opponent and kind of just see where that game

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Speaker 1: is going and have a better idea, and that might

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Speaker 1: be a good thing. What happened last week is just

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Speaker 1: a reminder like, hey, okay, you know, maybe there's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to punt this. I've got one of the best punters.

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Speaker 1: Put them back. Their offense wasn't rolling. Your defense is

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Speaker 1: playing so good. Let's play that kind of game. So

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Speaker 1: we'll see if that that's a difference going forward. Speaking

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Speaker 1: to that defense, DJ reads back this week, how big

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Speaker 1: of an addition is and is it a good problem? Now?

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Speaker 1: Will that? Look? Terry On could be back this week too,

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Speaker 1: and he was playing pretty good there before the concussion,

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Speaker 1: and Amik has stepped out and played really well filling

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Speaker 1: in for Reid. Is it a good thing? Now?

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Speaker 3: You do with me? What do you do time?

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Speaker 1: Now? Do you split time? Does a Meek just go

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Speaker 1: back to playing the nickel? You've got a bunch of

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Speaker 1: guys that can play now good good problem to have,

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Speaker 1: I think so.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It raises the dilemma of playing so much based defense.

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Speaker 2: I know you want your best players in the field,

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Speaker 2: but if you're gonna stay in base defense, then I

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Speaker 2: guess a Meek has to come off the field. But

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Speaker 2: he adds so much spunk and feistiness and just ability

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Speaker 2: to this defense. He's played really well in coverage in

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Speaker 2: some tough matchups too, so that'll be a fun puzzle

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Speaker 2: for Kelvin Shepherd to kind of piece together.

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Speaker 3: But I think the return of dj Reid is huge.

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Speaker 3: He was beginning to.

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Speaker 2: Really find his stride before his injury. He was playing

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Speaker 2: like the lockdown number one corner they paid him to be.

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Speaker 2: You know, you go back to week three, he eliminated

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Speaker 2: Zay Flowers from that win over the Ravens. I mean

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Speaker 2: he was invisible for most of that night, and then

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Speaker 2: he was doing the same thing and maybe a slightly

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Speaker 2: easier matchup to Jerry Judy in week four. He really

434
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Speaker 2: was cementing himself, establishing himself as a clear corner who

435
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Speaker 2: can travel with the opposing team's top receiver.

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Speaker 3: And having him back is huge.

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Speaker 2: Looking forward, you know, there's some big matchups in the

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Speaker 2: NFC playoff race.

439
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 3: This team has to has to to take.

440
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 2: On Dallas, who's kind of back from the dead now

441
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 2: with with Dak and George Pickens and Ceedee Lamb has

442
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 2: all kinds of passing weapons and artillery. And then the

443
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 2: Rams with Stafford and obviously Nakua and Devanta Adams I

444
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 2: believe those are back to back games for this team,

445
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 2: and you're gonna want all of the cover guys you

446
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 2: can possibly have on the field for matchups like that.

447
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 2: So you know, the fact that reads back harry On's

448
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 2: hopefully back soon and you have them meet kind of

449
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 2: in the wings is a good thing at the right time.

450
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,160
Speaker 1: And to your point on on Dijerrian, just how well

451
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: he was playing fifty percent. That's opposing quarterbacks completing fifty

452
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: percent passes thrown his way with a forty four point

453
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: one passer race.

454
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 3: That'll do it'll, that'll get the job done.

455
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: That's shutdown, no doubt that shutdown. It's good to get

456
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: that guy back. The biggest matchup you're looking forward to.

457
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 3: I really want to watch Burns versus Pine Sul.

458
00:20:59,080 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

459
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, kind of a clash of

460
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 2: the Titans. Tight matchup and and we've seen it a

461
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 2: couple of times this year against some of the elite

462
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 2: pass rushers. Always fun to watch sewell kind of lock

463
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,400
Speaker 2: horns with those guys. I think that'll be a fun

464
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 2: one to watch all game. Burns does rush from both sides,

465
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 2: so it won't always be being able to be some

466
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,360
Speaker 2: deck or two, But we'll see how how those two

467
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 2: ends can can handle him. And then I just think

468
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 2: I'll reiterate, I think the best matchup for the Lions

469
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 2: this week is just running the ball against this against

470
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 2: against this this defense that has been yielding leaking yards

471
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 2: all season, especially lately last four games or last five games,

472
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 2: Giants have allowed six yards per carry, one hundred and

473
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 2: seventy five yards rushing per game, like they've just been

474
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 2: leaking oil up front. So I think that you know,

475
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 2: when the tape comes on and the game plan comes

476
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 2: out this week, John Demo should be kind of, you know,

477
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 2: licking their chops wait waiting to get into this this defense.

478
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to have a little phone with something.

479
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 1: I know we're a little bit past mid season, but

480
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: we're kind of rating that that key stretch now going forward.

481
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: I'm curious offensively and defensively for this team offensive MVP

482
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: so far.

483
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 2: So I thought about this one for a little bit

484
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: because you did fill me in on a couple of

485
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 2: topics ahead of time, and I was waffling between Jamier

486
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 2: and Jared, and I eventually settled on Jared. And I

487
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 2: know it's maybe not the right time to have that

488
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 2: take after he has like the worst the career of

489
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 2: percent against the Eagles on Sunday Night Football. Would have

490
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 2: been easier to make this case last week, but I

491
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: think the way he's played with a much different looking

492
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 2: and performing offensive line and with a different OC and

493
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: with a change up play caller really speaks to how

494
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: sharp he is and how in command he is of

495
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: this offense. You know, the numbers are clear, he's been

496
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: great all season. The passer rating is top five, the

497
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 2: complet percentage is top five, they're both top one and

498
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 2: two before last week. But I think what goes under

499
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 2: stated or underappreciated is how much he does before the snap,

500
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 2: in the huddle at the line of scrimmage to get

501
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: this offense operating the way it needs to. I go

502
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 2: back to the JMO touchdown against the Commanders when Dan

503
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: couldn't get that play call in before his communication with

504
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: Jared shut off in Jared's helmet, and I think he

505
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: only got out maybe half of it. And Jared is

506
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 2: such a good student of the game that he was

507
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 2: able to hear eating a couple of words and.

508
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 3: Spit the rest of it out.

509
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: Get the guys lined out, they snap it with one

510
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: second on the playcock he finds Jamo for a touchdown.

511
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: That to me was a great snapshot of how much

512
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: he does that goes unseen for this offense.

513
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: For me, it's Jamier and it was close. I thought

514
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 1: about Jared too, and and Jared's had a great season.

515
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: I think defenses have been pretty scared the last two

516
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: weeks with what the Lions have shown. Obviously, Jah the

517
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: runner has been huge and explosiveness in the big place

518
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 1: he brings there. But we saw it in Washington with

519
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: that Texas route and then last week getting him in

520
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: space with over one hundred receiving yards. I think that

521
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: added element to his game that he's shown the last

522
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: two weeks. I think that's scary. Yeah, you know, especially

523
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: if you're gonna be without Sam Laporta for some time now,

524
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: that is gonna be huge. I think they're gonna need

525
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: a lot more in the passing game from Jah. In

526
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: the last two weeks, he's shown that he's capable of

527
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: doing that. I think it's huge. I think this is

528
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: a completely different offense without Jamiir Gibbs. I gave him

529
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: the MVP early on.

530
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jamier gabs on a Texas route might be the

531
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: most unstoppable or unguardable play in the NFL.

532
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: Is that linebackers like, come on, what are we doing?

533
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 1: I think even a safety would be yeah, yeah, you know, yeah,

534
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean honestly, all right, defensively.

535
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: So waffled year between Aiden and Jack Campbell, and I

536
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: went with Jock Campbell.

537
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 3: I think, you know, I think Aiden is Casey made.

538
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: He's yeah, I mean, one of the five or ten

539
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: best defensive ends in the NFL.

540
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 3: Every team would kill to have a guy like that.

541
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 2: I think the strides that Campbell has made across the

542
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: board this year have turned him into one of the

543
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: best linebackers in the NFL. This is the guy the

544
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 2: Lions drafted eighteenth overall a couple of years ago when

545
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: they said they viewed him as a defensive centerpiece.

546
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 3: This is what they were talking about.

547
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: And he was obviously dominant against the run from the

548
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: moment he showed up. But he's really evolved as a

549
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: pass rusher this year. Four sacks, a career high, I

550
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,239
Speaker 2: think tied for the third most on the team. And

551
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: we talk about this run defense. He is their best

552
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: run defender, and he's maybe the best run defending linebacker

553
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: in the NFL has played almost every darn snap this year.

554
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 2: I just think if you removed him from this defense,

555
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: it would look a whole lot different. He really has become,

556
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 2: even in coverage, a little bit a do it all linebacker.

557
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: I said before the season, I wouldn't be surprised at

558
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: all if he had one hundred and fifty tackles. This season.

559
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: He had one hundred and thirty. I think he's the fourth,

560
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: only the fourth line ever to have at least ninety

561
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: tackles through team's first ten games. Chris Bielman's on that

562
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: list a couple of times. Good company, good company, you know,

563
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: And so I'm with you. I think he's kind of

564
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: what makes that defense work. He's, you know, the green dot.

565
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: He gets everybody lined up. He is I don't think

566
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: he gets enough credit for. And you hear Calvin talk

567
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: about it, you hear's teammates talk about is his preparation.

568
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: I mean it's goth like from the defensive side. When

569
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: you've got a middle linebacker that plays like that, prepares

570
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: like that, is toughest nails. I wish I was in

571
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: that huddle when he had the hole and he was

572
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: like covering so he wouldn't spit blood on his teammates,

573
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: still making it like he's a throwback.

574
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 3: I think one of them was like, are you good, dude,

575
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 3: He's just a.

576
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: Throwback, like he fits everything Detroit and Dan Campbell wants

577
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: to be. I think he's gonna be a good linebacker

578
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: in this league for a long long time.

579
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, there might be a distant relations between Dan Campbell

580
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: and Jack Campbell. There might not surprise me. Maybe like

581
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 2: third cousins, twice remombers or something. They're cut from the

582
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 2: same cloth for sure.

583
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: All right, let's finish on this one. Everybody does power

584
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: rankings real quick. I'm gonna give you my five power

585
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: top five in the NFC and tell me if you

586
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: agree or you know, tell me I'm I'm an idiot.

587
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: Number one for me, Rams, I just think that offense

588
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: is elite. That defensive line can get after you. They're

589
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: like Detroit in a lot of ways that they can

590
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: beat you offensively and defensively when they're on point Phillies.

591
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: Number two for me, Detroit's at three, Seattle is four.

592
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: Don't sleep on the forty nine ers. Now the brock

593
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: perdies back, I know they're dealing with some injuries. They've

594
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: lost some guys, but offensively they're starting to get a

595
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: few guys back. They're always gonna play good defense over there.

596
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: That's my five. So I got Rams, Eagles, Lions, Seahawks,

597
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: forty nine ers. What's your five?

598
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

599
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: I would consider swapping in Tampa for thought for San

600
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 2: fran Yes, because they're kind of a battle tested team

601
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: under Todd Bowles, and even when they're down a bunch

602
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: of players, they'll find a way to make you fight them.

603
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: And Baker's a gamer, you know, I have a lot

604
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 2: of respect for it, for his style of play. They

605
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 2: seem to have found a new running back and this

606
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: Sean Tucker, I think it is, who is made the

607
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: absence of Bucky Irving kind of a moot point. I know, Oh,

608
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: they're all kinds of banged up, but that's a team

609
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: that that if and if and probably when they make

610
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: the playoffs, could still put a scare.

611
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 3: Into into some of those big boys.

612
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: As you know, we've we've seen firsthand here they've given

613
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: the Lions all they can handle, especially from from their

614
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 2: defensive side of things. So I think maybe that's that

615
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: would be the one swap that I would make but

616
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: I agree.

617
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 3: That l A is scary man.

618
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: And it's amazing how quickly they rebuilt themselves after going

619
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: all in with the FM picks philosophy to win that

620
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 2: first one under Stafford. They have emerged again as a

621
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: real threat and that young defensive line is a force

622
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: to be reckoned with. That's the next to me major

623
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: test for this Lions offense because they play a lot

624
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: like Philly and Green Bay do in that they don't

625
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: blitz all that much. Like obviously the vikings caused problems.

626
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: That was almost more scheme related than four as related

627
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: than just like Mono E Mono one run.

628
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: There are other factors there.

629
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: Though, Yeah, exactly ever changes everything and that's what Green

630
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 2: Bay can do, It's what Philly did last week, and

631
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: it's what LA can do. So I know that's further

632
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: on down the line, but that's looming as a major

633
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: test for this offensive line.

634
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: Well, I know we went a little longer than I

635
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: normally go up. I enjoyed this. This was good stuff.

636
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: You can catch will obviously on X at.

637
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: Birchie Underscore Kid. You can find me on there.

638
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 2: You can find me on the ninety seven to one

639
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: airwaves Monday Nights, Lions Review New Fox two Sunday Morning

640
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: Sunday Nights.

641
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 3: You can't really avoid me.

642
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: You're everywhere. I like it, and we'll look. This team

643
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: hasn't lost back to back game since October of twenty twenty.

644
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: I think both of us expect a huge bounce, bagging

645
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: get right. Then you've got Green Bay on Thanksgiving on

646
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: a short week. We'll see where this team stands. And

647
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: then La and some of those are looming too. So

648
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: it's the stretch run, but it should be a fun one.

649
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: I think they were in better shape than then. People

650
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: might feel after that Eagles game.

651
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you would offer it.

652
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: I think a lot of fans through ten games, six wins,

653
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: given they had played in the first ten games, a

654
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: lot of fans probably would have signed up for that.

655
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: I think six and four quickly becomes nine and four,

656
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: and I think the mood around this team will shift

657
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 2: pretty dramatically in the next few weeks.

658
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: You control your own destiny. The one seed I think

659
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: will be a little tough with that loss to Philly,

660
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: but you control your destiny in the NFC North that's

661
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: home playoffs, that's coming through Detroit. So I think everything's

662
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: sitting in front of them. They're in a fine spot.

663
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll be the one to say it.

664
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: Thanks for always be right back. Welcome back to your

665
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: twenty podcast. We're happy to welcome and Thomas Harper, one

666
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: of those guys who has stepped in played a role

667
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: and then one of in my opinion, one of the

668
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: unheralded heroes on this football team. First off, let's let's

669
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: go back. Let's let's talk about how you got into football,

670
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: because I think it's an interesting story. You're a basketball

671
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: player growing up, you don't even start to play football

672
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: to your sophomore year in high school. What prompted you

673
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: and when did you first fall in love with football? Then?

674
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 6: I would say I fell in love with it the

675
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 6: first season that I started playing the sophomore year. Yeah,

676
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 6: Like my first ever play of tackle football, like in

677
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,719
Speaker 6: high school was a kickoff return and I ended up

678
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 6: scoring it.

679
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 4: So it was like, oh, like, okay, this may be

680
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 4: my avenue.

681
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: So you're a receiver, you're a defensive back. Your junior year,

682
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: you become the first player ever at Carnes High School

683
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: in Knoxville to have a thousand yard season. Do it

684
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: again your senior year and then you get that that

685
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: opportunity to play in college. Now, you played at Oklahoma

686
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: State with Rodrigo right now, he started as a safety,

687
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: right yeah, he was Malcolm the safety like period.

688
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 6: He was there before. He would play safety before I

689
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 6: got there. Okay, so I didn't get he.

690
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: Had already made the switch to linebacker.

691
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 4: But I heard he was good.

692
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 6: I heard he was come down and really really yeah,

693
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 6: I heard he was nice.

694
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: So you play at Oklahoma State, do a great job there.

695
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: You transferred to Notre Dame for your final season, you know,

696
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: start and play there. You go undrafted with the with

697
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: the Chargers, you get an opportunity in Las Vegas, and

698
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: how key was just getting that opportunity in the NFL

699
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: for you, and then you made the most of it.

700
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 4: It was huge.

701
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 6: I say, if you look at the numbers, it's not

702
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 6: a lot of people that end up making it to

703
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 6: the league.

704
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 4: So it was huge.

705
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 6: And then I think as far as me just taking

706
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 6: advantage of it, just always being ready and always having

707
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 6: that faith and knowing that my opportunity will come.

708
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you sign in Detroit, Kirby has the injury, you

709
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: step in. Look, there was one game there where you

710
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: had four starters out in the secondary right the legion

711
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: of whom they called it or whatever it was, but

712
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 1: just what has allowed you to be able to step

713
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: in play these minutes, play key downs, make plays, and

714
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: been a big part of kind of keeping the standard

715
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: in the secondary.

716
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 6: I think it all comes down to preparation kind of

717
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 6: like I mentioned, I think just knowing that it's an

718
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 6: opportunity and knowing that it could always come at any moment,

719
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 6: and just being ready to take advantage of it whenever

720
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 6: it happens. I think that's the biggest thing, because I

721
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 6: mean it's hard to be a backup no, you're not

722
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 6: really gonna play, but still be in the playbook like

723
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 6: you're gonna play. So I think that's the biggest thing,

724
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 6: is just having that faith that I'm gonna get my

725
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 6: opportunity and then being ready whenever it happens.

726
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: It just seems like a great fit for your game,

727
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: your skill set. What was it about Detroit this defense

728
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: that just seems to fit you.

729
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 6: I would say, just you gotta be versatile in this defense.

730
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 6: And I think versatility is something that I definitely have.

731
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 6: Like I played in college, I was a nickel in

732
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 6: the league. I played nickel in safety, mainly safety, So

733
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 6: I just think nickel in college really helped me with

734
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 6: my versatility and being able to be different pieces in

735
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 6: the puzzle.

736
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: How is playing receiver and that's how you started, That's

737
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: how you kind of made your mark in the game.

738
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: How does playing receiver help you as a nickel a safety?

739
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 6: I think I would say ball skills for sure. I

740
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 6: think knowing how to track the ball and stuff like that,

741
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 6: and then just route combinations.

742
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: Defense is finally getting the credit it deserves here. Just

743
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: how fun is this defense to be a part of

744
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: your top ten in scoring overall defense, pass run, red

745
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: zone takeaways. I mean, you name the category, you guys

746
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 1: are top ten and that how fon of a group

747
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: is this to play with and just be part of

748
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: what Shepherd's building here?

749
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 4: Man, It's really fun. I've never.

750
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 6: This is probably one of the best defenses I've been on,

751
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 6: for sure, Like as far as just him trusting us

752
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 6: to God and executing then him call, and I mean

753
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 6: it's fun. It allows you to just play around, fly around,

754
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 6: have fun. And then I mean, most importantly, I think

755
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 6: it gives us opportunities to make plays.

756
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: One of the things that both Dan Campbell and Shepherd

757
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: have always talked about is if you show us that

758
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: you can play, we'll give you an opportunity to play.

759
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: And it hasn't just been lip service with them. They've

760
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: run a lot of different guys in there. If you

761
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: show them in practice or if because of injury, you

762
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: get an opportunity to play and you play, they're gonna

763
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: play you and they're gonna stay with you. How much

764
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: is a player do you appreciate that they have that

765
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: kind of mindset? And as a player, does that make

766
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: you just stay on your p's and q's every day

767
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: and be ready for the opportunity because you guys should

768
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: know that if you get the opportunity, they're going to

769
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 1: keep running with you. How much do you appreciate that?

770
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 4: Man?

771
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 6: It's huge, It's honestly huge. It's hard to find that

772
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 6: in his league. I think it allows you to go

773
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 6: out there and be yourself. You don't have to you're

774
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 6: not trying to be perfect, you're not trying to It

775
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 6: just allows you to go out there and be yourself

776
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 6: and it's okay if you make a play or if

777
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 6: you make it if it's okay obviously if you make

778
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 6: a play, but It's okay if you miss a player,

779
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 6: miss a call, as long as you out there making plays,

780
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 6: being yourself, just knowing that they're gonna have trusting you,

781
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 6: it's huge.

782
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: We talked a little bit about this on the way up.

783
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: It's just you guys have had to play so many

784
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: different guys. Can you see that as an advantage coming

785
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: down the stretch and maybe into the playoff push that

786
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: you guys have had to rely on so many different guys,

787
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: especially in the secondary. Maybe some other teams haven't, and

788
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: you guys have showed you you can you know you

789
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: can battle through that. How important is that for you

790
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: guys going down the stretch?

791
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 4: Huge? Like we talked about coming up here, I think.

792
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 6: A lot of times when it happens, it's like, oh,

793
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 6: it's too late.

794
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 4: It's like, oh, we don't know if he can do this.

795
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 4: We don't know if he can do that.

796
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 6: Everything with us getting injuries early on and having to

797
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 6: figure it out early on definitely will benefit us on

798
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 6: the back end of the season.

799
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: What do you like most about playing for shop? What

800
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: do you like most about this defense, whether it's schematically,

801
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: anything else that happens during the week. What do you

802
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: like about being part of this defense in particular.

803
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 4: I would say.

804
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 6: I like the versatility, Like I've never been in a

805
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 6: defense where we could do any we can run any defense.

806
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 4: We can run.

807
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 1: You play bass more than anybody else right.

808
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 6: Too, we can we can run man, we can run

809
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 6: zone like whatever. You know what I'm saying, whatever is

810
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 6: the kryptonite of the other of the offense that we're

811
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 6: playing like, It's just like you pick your poison and

812
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 6: we can do it. So I think that's I've never

813
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 6: been on the defense I was able to do that,

814
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 6: So I think that that's the most fun part.

815
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: One word that describes Calvin Sheppard. We have to keep

816
00:37:58,600 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: it PG.

817
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't even know if I can say that.

818
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 6: I would say I think he I think he's a

819
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 6: wizard wizard. A wizard is what.

820
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: Wizard is what I call a wizard that Lions fans.

821
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 7: Are gonna because he is smart and he's been in

822
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 7: your position before he's played, and it just seems like

823
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 7: he can he can adapt to to what offenses.

824
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: Do to you or try to do to you guys

825
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: every week, and there's not a lot of guys that

826
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: can do it. Some guys just have their system that's

827
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: what we play, That's what we do. We'll adapt a

828
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: little bit, but it looks like you guys change it up.

829
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 4: I'm telling you, like.

830
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 6: The bag of tricks that he has is crazy, and

831
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 6: they allow they have to trust in us to be

832
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 6: able to go from different defenses.

833
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: So it's it's huge.

834
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: Tell me about the Giants a little bit. Just what

835
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 1: you guys see this week. You get to get back

836
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: at home. You got a nice three game stretch here

837
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: at home. Starts off with New York Jackson darts guy

838
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: that can run around a little bit, slinging a little bit.

839
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: What have you seen from them on film? What's the

840
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: biggest challenge this week?

841
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 6: I think it always comes down to stopping the run.

842
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 6: I think we need to be able to stop the

843
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 6: run and then get them to get them one sided

844
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 6: to where we know that they're going to throw the

845
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 6: ball and make them throw the ball, force them to

846
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 6: throw the ball because I think they're leading the league

847
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 6: in like rushing attempts or something like that, so they're

848
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 6: definitely going to try to run the ball.

849
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 4: So stopping the run is key.

850
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: Man.

851
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: You've been You've been a huge part of what this

852
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: team has done. Defensively, you stepped right in for Kirby

853
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: and you haven't skipped the beat. And you're one of

854
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: those guys that that just kind of fits, and I

855
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: think one of those guys that have been important for

856
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: this defense to be what it is. Keep doing your

857
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: thing and good luck to you. Welcome back to the

858
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: Twin the Huddle podcast presented by Microsoft. Very happy to

859
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: welcome in. Matthew Stack does a great job as a

860
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: managing editor at giants dot Com. Matthew, thanks for taking

861
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: the time, appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me on.

862
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: All right, well, let's start right away. The quarterback situation

863
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: with Jackson Dart is kind of where's that trending? Is he?

864
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: Is there a possibility he plays Sunday? Or are we

865
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,439
Speaker 1: gonna see Jameis Winston again?

866
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, So, as we speak at you know, twelve noon

867
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 8: on Wednesday, Jackson Dart is still in the concussion protocol.

868
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 8: Interim head coach Mike Kafka is going to speak to

869
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 8: the media in about thirty minutes, and I'm sure the

870
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 8: first question he will be asked is what's going on

871
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 8: with Jackson Dart. Now, he was spotted on the practice

872
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 8: field this past Friday, he was a DMP. He did

873
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 8: not participate, but he was out there, so that would

874
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 8: you know, be a positive sign. And hopefully he's cleared

875
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 8: in time for Sunday's game. If not, it'll be another

876
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 8: week of James Winston.

877
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: How are the Giants different with with with Jackson? Obviously

878
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 1: the rushing ability over three hundred rushing yard, seven touchdowns,

879
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: but with this concussion stuff, is he going to be

880
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: the same kind of aggressive player? Just I guess, first off,

881
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: how are they different off with him without him? And

882
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: then if we do see him on Sunday, how might

883
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: he maybe be a little bit different just in terms

884
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: of trying to protect himself a little bit more.

885
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, you touched on the biggest difference is clearly

886
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 8: Jackson's rushing.

887
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 4: Ability and just his mobility in general.

888
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 8: And Jackson has fifty or more rushing yards and I

889
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 8: believe five of his seven starts he's got a rushing

890
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 8: touchdown and all but I think one of his one

891
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 8: of his seven starts. So he adds another dimension to

892
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 8: this offense that you know, the thirty something year old

893
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 8: Jameis Winston just does not.

894
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: And in addition to just.

895
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 8: The rushing, it's just his ability to move around and

896
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 8: extend plays that Jameis Winston at this point of his

897
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 8: career does not, you know, do quite as well. In

898
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 8: terms of what Jackson's rushing might look like for the

899
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 8: remainder of the season, we don't really know for sure,

900
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 8: but coach Mike Kafka did say that he doesn't really

901
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 8: want to take away Jackson's ability to create plays with

902
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 8: his legs.

903
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to take that part of his game away.

904
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 3: Now.

905
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 8: I think they're going to encourage him as have been,

906
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 8: to get down and sort of slide and not take.

907
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: A young man slide.

908
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, not take quite as many hits, but you know,

909
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 8: it's tough to tell a twenty two year old that's

910
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 8: trying to fight for a first down or fight to

911
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 8: get across the goal line to dive down and you know,

912
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 8: not try to fight for that extra yardage when all

913
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 8: of his teammates are fighting for those extra yardage. So

914
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 8: it remains to be seen, but I do think that

915
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 8: the rushing is still going to be a very big

916
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 8: part of his game.

917
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: You look at the Giants, obviously two wins on the season,

918
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: not what they had hoped or or probably expected, but

919
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: when you look at this team, Matthew, what are the

920
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: strengths of this Giants team coming on the road in Detroit,

921
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: you know, facing Alliance team that needs a bounce back

922
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: win at home on Sunday. Yeah.

923
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 8: So the offense is, you know, based on how the

924
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 8: last couple of seasons have gone, it's all I guess

925
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 8: surprising to say, but the offense has been more of

926
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 8: a strength for the team this year than the defense.

927
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 8: And it's really started with Jackson Dart at quarterback. I mean,

928
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 8: he's really helped raise the floor of the entire offense.

929
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 8: It's help the past get going. THEO Johnson, our tight

930
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 8: end is having you know his I believe five or

931
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 8: six receiving touchdowns already, well more than he had last

932
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 8: year as a rookie.

933
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: Jackson has been spreading the ball around.

934
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 8: Obviously, Melik Nahbors suffered a torn acl all the way

935
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 8: back in Week four, Jackson's first start, and while it

936
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 8: was a tough blow to lose obviously one of the

937
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 8: more talented receivers in the NFL, it has sort of

938
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 8: forced Jackson to spread the ball around to every all

939
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 8: pass catches in the offense a little bit more so,

940
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 8: I would say definitely the offense, Jackson Dart and surprisingly

941
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 8: the offensive line. Our offensive line, which again has been

942
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 8: somewhat of an Achilles hill in previous years, they've been

943
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 8: playing really solid football. Obviously, they have a very tough

944
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 8: test this week going up against Aiden Hutchinson, that entire

945
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 8: Lions defensive front. But the old line really has done,

946
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 8: you know, better than expected, both in terms of pass

947
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 8: protection and the run game.

948
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: Last week, Tyrone.

949
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 8: Tracy kind of got going for the first time since

950
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 8: taken over for Camp Scataboo, who was lost back in

951
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 8: Week seven to a season ending injury. So offense overall,

952
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 8: I would say has been more of a strangth. The

953
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 8: defense has struggled, especially the last I would say a

954
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 8: month or so, and of course this week's games potentially

955
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 8: the toughest challenge all year for the.

956
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 4: Giants defense going up against that line's offense.

957
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: No, it's a good point on the offensive line, because

958
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: you know, the Packers are pretty good. Run defense I

959
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: think was over one hundred and forty yards and three

960
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: rushing touchdowns against the Packers. I think the Packers, Detroit

961
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 1: and six other teams. There's only eight teams that hold

962
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: opponents on average to less than one hundred rushing yards

963
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: per game. Green Bay was won. They'll Detroit's another one

964
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: that they'll face, you know, this week. We'll see if

965
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: they can keep that rolling. But they have run the

966
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: ball better and that obviously, you know, helps a young

967
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,479
Speaker 1: quarterback too. Look, you mentioned it a little bit there

968
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: when you talk about the offense, When you look at

969
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: this Giants roster, especially defensively upfront, with some of the

970
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 1: names that they have, Abdua, Carter, Burns, Thibodeau, why hasn't

971
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: it kind of, you know, been more effective defensive You

972
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: look at them, they're twenty ninth in points, twenty ninth

973
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: in total defense. But they've got some guys up front

974
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: that you know, are really good. Burns leads the NFC

975
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: in sacks with thirteen. Why hasn't it just come together

976
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: more as a collective unit for that Giants defense.

977
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 8: Yeah, So coming into the season, you know, we all

978
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 8: expected that defense in front to really be the biggest

979
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 8: strength of the entire team on both sides of the ball,

980
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 8: and quite frankly, that just has not been the case

981
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 8: so far. Brian Burns, as you mentioned, he's having a

982
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 8: phenomenal season, a career year, but the guys around him

983
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 8: have just not quite stepped up. You know, Dexter Lawrence,

984
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 8: He's coming off a season ending elbow injury from last year.

985
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 8: Maybe that's hindering his you know, playmaking ability a little bit.

986
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 8: He's also still facing in a league high double team

987
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 8: rate that you know, last year he was able to

988
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 8: fight through that and still be a force in the

989
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 8: in the pass rush. It hasn't quite happened the same

990
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 8: this year. Kevon Thibodeau started off the season really strong.

991
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 8: I believe it was four and a half sacks in

992
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 8: the first month, but has not really done much sin

993
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 8: and then Abdul Carter is getting pressures. It's just he

994
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 8: has not been able to translate the pressures into sacks

995
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 8: quite yet. He only has half a sack. But I

996
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 8: believe Leeds still leads all rookies in pressure, so he

997
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 8: is getting after the quarterback. He just hasn't been able

998
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 8: to translate them into sacks quite yet. And then in

999
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 8: terms of the rest of the defense, Giants lost Micah McFadden,

1000
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 8: one of their starting middle linebackers all the way back

1001
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 8: in Week one, and then that second spot next to

1002
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 8: Bobby o'carake in the middle of the defense has sort

1003
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 8: of been a bit of a revolving door.

1004
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: Between just guys getting hurt.

1005
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 8: This past week, Demetrius Flannagan Fowls was starting next to

1006
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 8: Bobby Ocarake, and the Giants signed him originally to primarily

1007
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 8: be a special teams guy, and now he's actually stepped

1008
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 8: up and played pretty well these last couple of weeks

1009
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 8: and is looking at an extended opportunity because Darius Muissaw,

1010
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 8: who first filled in for Mike McFadden, he's now on

1011
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 8: the injured reserve, so Flannagan Fowls will have an opportunity

1012
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 8: to keep this going. But the Giants have also just

1013
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 8: been decimated with injuries in the secondary. I mean, I

1014
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 8: know the Lions have as well, know how that goes.

1015
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 8: Giants have been without Pulse and Adbo for about a

1016
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 8: month now. They just got Javon Holland back. The starting

1017
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 8: safety Cordell Flott missed the game, which has led to

1018
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 8: Deontay Banks getting extended action. So there's just been a

1019
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 8: lot of injuries outside of the defensive front, which has

1020
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 8: not helped. But yeah, that foursome upfront, which was supposed

1021
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 8: to be the biggest strength outside of Brian Burns has

1022
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 8: just not quite lived up to expectations yet so far

1023
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 8: the season.

1024
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: You know, Lions haven't lost back to back football games

1025
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: since October of twenty twenty two. That's a long time,

1026
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: obviously longest stretch in the league. So, Matthew, how did

1027
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: the Giants go on the road and upset a Detroit

1028
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: team that doesn't lose back to back games? You know,

1029
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: what's the recipe there? What has to happen for the

1030
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: Giants to accomplish that.

1031
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 8: Look, I'm not gonna lie. When I was watching Sunday

1032
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 8: Night football this past week, I was not happy to see.

1033
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: The Eagles win that game and the.

1034
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 8: Detroit offense kind of struggle because obviously, you guys have

1035
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 8: had one of the top five offenses in the NFL

1036
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 8: for the last three and a half season. So the

1037
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 8: fact that you guys are held to, you know, just

1038
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 8: nine total points, that scared me because I was expecting

1039
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 8: or now expect, you know, Dan Campbell and the whole

1040
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 8: offense to look for a real big bounce back and

1041
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 8: for us, the Giants, to prevent that from happening. I

1042
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 8: think it starts first and foremost with doing the best

1043
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 8: to slow down the run game. Because obviously everyone knows

1044
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 8: Detroit wants to run the football. You have probably the

1045
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 8: best running back duo with Jami or Gibbs and David Montgomery,

1046
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 8: you know, and the Giants run defense has been they

1047
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 8: struggled this year to say the least, you know, especially

1048
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 8: this last.

1049
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 3: Month or so.

1050
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 8: Emmanuel Wilson filled in for Josh Jacobs last week. Wasn't

1051
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 8: the most efficient, but he did enough, you know, got

1052
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 8: into the end zone, did enough to cause some damage.

1053
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 8: Josh Jacobs before the injury, it was averaging over five

1054
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 8: and a half yards per carry against the Giants. So

1055
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 8: if the Giant can slow down David Montgomery and Jamior Gibbs,

1056
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 8: and I expect both of those running backs to be

1057
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 8: fed a lot of carries in this game, that would

1058
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 8: go a long way and helping the Giants have a

1059
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 8: chance to keep up with this high powered Detroit offense.

1060
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,720
Speaker 1: What's a key matchup you're looking forward to watching?

1061
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 8: Ooh, I mean probably Andrew Thomas whenever he's matched up

1062
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 8: against Aiden Hutchinson, because that's best on best. Aiden Hutchinson

1063
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 8: obviously one of the best defenders in the NFL. I

1064
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 8: have so much respect for him. I think he's should

1065
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 8: be in the running for Defensive Player of the Year.

1066
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 8: And Andrew Thomas. Since coming back from the foot injury

1067
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 8: that suffered last year in Week three, he's been I

1068
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 8: think one of the best left tackles in the NFL.

1069
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 8: Has really done great in pass protection. So that matchup

1070
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 8: is definitely gonna be you know, get your popcorn ready.

1071
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: Matthew, I know you've got some availability to run to it.

1072
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it.

1073
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: Safe travels up here, and it's two teams looking for

1074
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: a kind of a big bounce back win after losses

1075
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: last week. A big test for New York coming into

1076
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: Ford Field against an angry Lions team that field like

1077
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: they didn't play very well, and we'll see if the

1078
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: Giants can hang around and maybe have the upset. Safe travels,

1079
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: good luck to you

1080
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 4: Thank you, thanks for having me on