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Speaker 1: of the show, you may not realize we have hundreds
Speaker 1: of incredible episodes in our archive. We just released our
Speaker 1: five hundredth episode. Recently, we've had so many wonderful guests
Speaker 1: that we've decided to hand pick one of our favorites
Speaker 1: that may be new to you, but if it's not,
Speaker 1: it's definitely worth another and we hope you'll enjoy this
Speaker 1: episode with Dan Millman, we don't see the world as
Speaker 1: it is. We see the world as we are Welcome
Speaker 1: to the one you feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have
Speaker 1: recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like
Speaker 1: garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think,
Speaker 1: ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts
Speaker 1: don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy,
Speaker 1: or fear. We see what we don't have instead of
Speaker 1: what we do. We think things that hold us back
Speaker 1: and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.
Speaker 1: Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort
Speaker 1: to make a life worth living. This podcast is about
Speaker 1: how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction,
Speaker 1: how they feed their good wolf. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Our guest this week is Dan Millman, former World Champions
Speaker 1: gymnast and the author of thirteen books, including The Way
Speaker 1: of the Peaceful Warrior, which was made into a feature
Speaker 1: film starring Nick Nolty. His most recent book, written with
Speaker 1: his daughter Sierra, is called The Creative Compass, Writing Your
Speaker 1: Way from Inspiration to Publication, and is available in bookstores everywhere.
Speaker 1: You can find more information on Dan and this episode
Speaker 1: and our show notes at one you Feed dot Net.
Speaker 1: Slash Dan. Hi Dan, thanks for joining us today. Hi
Speaker 1: am right glad to be here with you now. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm very excited to have you. I read The Way
Speaker 1: the Peaceful Warrior probably a long time ago. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: older than I think, I guess, but it's probably been
Speaker 1: at least years ago, and it was it was probably
Speaker 1: the first book I'd say that exposed me to a
Speaker 1: lot of ideas that you know, that are relatively common
Speaker 1: place now, but but for me at that time, it
Speaker 1: was it was pretty eye opening. So I thank you
Speaker 1: for that book. Well you've got so. Our Our podcast
Speaker 1: is called The One You Feed, and it's based on
Speaker 1: the old parable where there is a Cherokee grandfather who
Speaker 1: is talking to his grandson and he says, uh, in life,
Speaker 1: there's a battle always going on inside of us. It's
Speaker 1: it's between two wolves. One is a good wolf who
Speaker 1: represents kindness and love and joy, and the other is
Speaker 1: a bad wolf, which represents hate and sorrow and and
Speaker 1: any other negative thing you want to you want to add.
Speaker 1: And the grandson looks at his grandfather and says, well,
Speaker 1: which one wins? And the the grandfather says, the one
Speaker 1: that you feed. That's sort of the theme of our podcast.
Speaker 1: So I'd like to start off by just asking you
Speaker 1: sort of how does that parable relate to you, your life,
Speaker 1: your work, and and kind of what does it mean you.
Speaker 1: I could probably write a long essay on that topic.
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful parable. It applies to so much. What
Speaker 1: comes to mind first is the idea that at the
Speaker 1: end of our day, when we are about to go
Speaker 1: retire for the night, or even when we get up
Speaker 1: in the morning, we have a choice. If we want
Speaker 1: to look at polarities. We can sit down and write
Speaker 1: all the lousy things that happened to us that day,
Speaker 1: the person who cut us off in traffic, someone who
Speaker 1: wasn't fair, someone who has said an unkind word, or
Speaker 1: we can count our blessings. And this is obvious, but
Speaker 1: very few of us practice it. We can sit down
Speaker 1: and think about the good things that happened today, to
Speaker 1: sort back through our day, about the the beautiful sunrise
Speaker 1: we saw, or the good breakfast we had, or a
Speaker 1: friend we met we didn't expect to see, and that
Speaker 1: will give us, you know, that's how we feed one
Speaker 1: will for the other. That will give us a perceptual
Speaker 1: filter through which we look at our world, and we'll
Speaker 1: tell ourselves. I want to remember what good's going to
Speaker 1: happen to me today. I have to make a note
Speaker 1: of that, or well, I'm gonna remember the bad things
Speaker 1: that happened. So that is one clear parallel. It's probably
Speaker 1: not something original. I'm sure you've heard different versions of
Speaker 1: it before, but it did come to mind when you
Speaker 1: mentioned which wolf do you want to feed? Because we
Speaker 1: don't see the world as it is, we see the
Speaker 1: world as we are. We all see the world through
Speaker 1: a perceptual filter based on our associations, beliefs, opinions, meanings, um.
Speaker 1: And it's like a muddy window, distorted window. And part
Speaker 1: of what we call spiritual work, personal growth work, psychological
Speaker 1: work involves noticing that the window is there. First of all,
Speaker 1: that we're not seeing the world that as it is,
Speaker 1: and we begin to consider how we might clean that window,
Speaker 1: not to make it pink or any pretty colors, but
Speaker 1: actually just to clear it so we life as it is.
Speaker 1: So those are the first thoughts that came up to me.
Speaker 1: I hope that it wasn't too long a monologue. No,
Speaker 1: it was great, And that is uh, you know, that's
Speaker 1: a that's a theme. We certainly that that keeps showing
Speaker 1: up in in you know, in the conversations we're having.
Speaker 1: We we had an interview last night with a gentleman
Speaker 1: named Oliver Berkman who wrote a really interesting book called, Uh,
Speaker 1: the Antidote Positive or Happiness for People who Hate Positive Thinking.
Speaker 1: But we spent a lot of time talking about exactly
Speaker 1: sort of that it's such a fundamental step when you
Speaker 1: can recognize that your thoughts are just your thoughts. They're
Speaker 1: not they're not necessarily accurate, they're not necessarily a real
Speaker 1: reflection of the world, and you have some degree of
Speaker 1: ability to choose which ones, Uh, you focus on. One
Speaker 1: of the things I've always really liked about your work
Speaker 1: and um, and some of the talks I've seen you
Speaker 1: give is you talk a lot about though however that yes,
Speaker 1: thought is important. UM. Yeah, maybe we've got some degree
Speaker 1: of of where we focus our attention. But the thoughts
Speaker 1: are going to come to us and of all sorts,
Speaker 1: and that what really matters is kind of what you do,
Speaker 1: the action that you take. Can we talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that? Sure? And I'd like to give credit
Speaker 1: where credit is due. I've had different mentors in my life.
Speaker 1: I didn't make this up. It was actually a revelation
Speaker 1: that came to me through the work of um, a
Speaker 1: humble man. He's still alive. His name is David K. Reynolds,
Speaker 1: and he wrote a book called Constructive Living, and he
Speaker 1: pointed out the teachings of a Japanese psychiatrist named Showma Morita.
Speaker 1: Marita had a lot of wisdom. For example, once he said,
Speaker 1: when running up a hill, it's okay to give up
Speaker 1: as many times as you want, as long as your
Speaker 1: feet keep moving. In other words, we can give up inside,
Speaker 1: we can say I can't, I can't do this, I
Speaker 1: have doubts, I'm unable to do it. All this stuff's
Speaker 1: going on in our heads, um as long as our
Speaker 1: feet keep moving. So this is the focused on what
Speaker 1: we do. And Marita had three guidelines for living wisely
Speaker 1: and well. One was except whatever thoughts or feelings you
Speaker 1: have at the moment as natural to you. You don't
Speaker 1: have to fix them, change them, obey them, run from them,
Speaker 1: resist them, just accept them as natural to you. They're
Speaker 1: like weather, weather passing through. The second thing is focused
Speaker 1: on a constructive goal in your life. What do you
Speaker 1: want to accomplish right now. For example, we have a
Speaker 1: goal right now that we're all focusing on, and then
Speaker 1: the third guideline is do what needs to be done
Speaker 1: in line with your goal. It's a very practical way
Speaker 1: to function in life, despite the storms of emotion and
Speaker 1: thought that led Mark Twain to say, I've had many
Speaker 1: troubles in my life, most of which never happened. We
Speaker 1: sometimes think we have to be in the mood uh
Speaker 1: to do something, and and uh that we have to
Speaker 1: feel like doing something and that and that that poses
Speaker 1: a real challenge versus just doing something. Do you have
Speaker 1: any insight for people on how when they're sort of
Speaker 1: in that stuck spot where where everything inside of them
Speaker 1: is sort of you know, I guess procrastination, right. I
Speaker 1: don't feel like it. I don't want to do this
Speaker 1: for actually just getting moving. Well, first, yes I do,
Speaker 1: But first let me underscore what you just said. Um,
Speaker 1: because we're look, most of us grew up with role
Speaker 1: models that look a lot like a soap opera. We
Speaker 1: have a feeling or thought we acted out as if compelled,
Speaker 1: as if that feeling or thought compelled us to act
Speaker 1: it out. We get angry, We say an angry word
Speaker 1: or we strike out at somebody. Uh, that's what you
Speaker 1: see when you turn to a soap opera on TV,
Speaker 1: people having a feeling or thought and acting it out. Boom,
Speaker 1: just like that, and the consequences are are messy. So
Speaker 1: I often remind people to progress towards our goals and
Speaker 1: turn what we know into what we actually do. There
Speaker 1: are two basic methods um to do that. The first
Speaker 1: one i'd like to recite to you now, which is
Speaker 1: very popular most people. This is what they pursue when
Speaker 1: they're interested in personal and psychological growth. So here's what
Speaker 1: you can do to turn what you know into what
Speaker 1: you do. Find a way to quiet the mind, create
Speaker 1: empowering beliefs, raise your self esteem, and practice positive self
Speaker 1: talk to find your focus, affirm your power, and free
Speaker 1: your emotions. To visualize positive outcomes so that you can
Speaker 1: develop the confidence to generate the courage, to find the determination,
Speaker 1: to make the commitment to feel sufficiently motivated to do
Speaker 1: whatever it is you need to do. The second method,
Speaker 1: which I recommend, is you can just do it. Because
Speaker 1: life is always going to come down to are you
Speaker 1: going to do it or not. Now, people say, well,
Speaker 1: that's fine, Dan, just do it. But how can I
Speaker 1: get the courage to just do it? How can I
Speaker 1: find the confidence? How can I get the motivation? And
Speaker 1: I go back to you can be not motivated. How
Speaker 1: many of us have taken out the trash or gone
Speaker 1: to school or gone to work when we weren't motivated
Speaker 1: to do it. We we did it. We just did it.
Speaker 1: And that is what life comes down to. And that's
Speaker 1: what makes the difference. Now you may see it, but
Speaker 1: give us a little help. Come on, Dan, My listeners
Speaker 1: would still like to know if there's an easier way,
Speaker 1: And I would suggest in principle that it's fine a
Speaker 1: dream big, but best to start small and then connect
Speaker 1: the dots. So, if someone wants to exercise every day,
Speaker 1: I recommend they do one jumping jack every morning at
Speaker 1: the same time. At least they have their exercise period defined.
Speaker 1: Now they can double their work out by doing two
Speaker 1: jumping jack the next month, so starts all. If they
Speaker 1: want to learn to meditate, meditate every day for fifteen seconds,
Speaker 1: but at least you're doing it every day. Get your
Speaker 1: foot in the door. Rather than a big resolution, I'm
Speaker 1: going to the gym for an hour and a half
Speaker 1: to work out, you know, for twenty eight years, I've
Speaker 1: done a workout myself every day, no matter where I've
Speaker 1: been in the world. Um some odd places too. It's
Speaker 1: a four minute what I call the Peaceful Warrior Workout,
Speaker 1: and I that's available on you know, there's a course
Speaker 1: use people pay whatever they want for it, a dollar,
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars, whatever in between. But the point is
Speaker 1: there's a course with video on my website where people
Speaker 1: can learn the Peaceful Warrior Workout. But that's one example
Speaker 1: of simple is powerful because we're more likely to do it.
Speaker 1: So that is how in terms of just doing it,
Speaker 1: just start small. Don't radically change your diet, because people
Speaker 1: do then they go back. Just eat a little less
Speaker 1: of what's bad for you, a little more what's good
Speaker 1: for you. Just start small and connect the dots. Get
Speaker 1: get some momentum going, get some positive, positive progress, and
Speaker 1: and build from there. Yeah you said somewhere. You know.
Speaker 1: It's something I say a lot too, which is a
Speaker 1: little if something is better than a lot of nothing.
Speaker 1: I find myself I like to go to boxing, um
Speaker 1: and I go to you know, the class is half over.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm still going, you know, because half of
Speaker 1: this class is better than none of this class, which
Speaker 1: is which is a big change from a all or
Speaker 1: nothing mentality that that I certainly in the past would
Speaker 1: bring to things. And I think a lot of people do.
Speaker 1: If if I can't do this exactly right, or I
Speaker 1: can't fully commit to this, or I can't you know,
Speaker 1: nothing happens, and and uh, you know, little steps make
Speaker 1: a make a big difference. As you say, you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny. I was in doing a consolation a session,
Speaker 1: a consultation yesterday with someone and it came down to
Speaker 1: that one thing that was really affecting his life. For him,
Speaker 1: it was all or nothing. I'm good or I'm bad.
Speaker 1: If I'm not, if I'm not pure and the perfect
Speaker 1: peaceful warrior, then I'm falling off off the path. And
Speaker 1: he was caught up in this all or nothing mentality,
Speaker 1: and so many of us can be. So that's why
Speaker 1: these shades. To start to see the shades and a
Speaker 1: little bit better, that's so important. You know, one of
Speaker 1: the things that is I'd like about about your work,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times it's sort of similar to
Speaker 1: you know about your your thoughts. As also you say,
Speaker 1: you know, knowledge alone does not suffice. It has no
Speaker 1: heart or you know elsewhere you say that no amount
Speaker 1: of knowledge will nourish or sustain your spirit. Uh so
Speaker 1: it's you know, you're, you're, you're describing sort of the
Speaker 1: same thing. How do we that knowing this stuff is great?
Speaker 1: But you know, if I if I had meditated, uh
Speaker 1: you know, ten minutes for every hour I had read
Speaker 1: about meditating, I probably would be far better off. And
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people fall into that camp.
Speaker 1: It's a lot easier to sit on the couch eating
Speaker 1: cheese it's reading about spiritual growth than it is to
Speaker 1: do some of the work. Well, many of us know
Speaker 1: all the terms and the jargon. We can talk about
Speaker 1: the chakras and all the sophisticated ideas. But you're right.
Speaker 1: You know that little story about the young scholar was
Speaker 1: being pulled across a raging river in India by a
Speaker 1: brave ferryman, and they were going across gradually this river,
Speaker 1: and the young scholar was telling the the ferryman all
Speaker 1: the things he'd studied and the degrees he'd earned. And
Speaker 1: the ferryman said, I was very impressive hearing this, But
Speaker 1: in all your studies, did you ever learn to swim?
Speaker 1: And the young scholars said well no, he said, that's
Speaker 1: too bad, because this raft is sinking. So yes, practice
Speaker 1: practice daily life is a practice. It's a form of
Speaker 1: spiritual weightlifting. And it's not about succeeding every day and
Speaker 1: everything everything work out right. It's about how can we
Speaker 1: grow stronger. That's why St. Augustine said, I pray not
Speaker 1: for a lighter load, but for stronger shoulders. Several of
Speaker 1: your books talk about UM and and reference sort of
Speaker 1: life purpose. Can you share a little bit about UM,
Speaker 1: what that means to you and and sort of where
Speaker 1: you go in your in your work on that area
Speaker 1: when I do right and it is a central interest
Speaker 1: of mine. UM. I like where you're leading. But I'd
Speaker 1: like to jump back just for a moment first, because
Speaker 1: we started out with the parable of the two wolves,
Speaker 1: the good wolf and the bad wolf, and I'd like
Speaker 1: to offer it maybe a little more original perspective than
Speaker 1: the example I gave. I think it's an important one
Speaker 1: about uh, you know, sorting for blessings or what happened negatively.
Speaker 1: But there is another more original approach, the idea of
Speaker 1: that there's no actually good or bad, you know, Roomy
Speaker 1: said out beyond wrongdoing and right doing. There is a field.
Speaker 1: I'll meet you there um and of us. What he
Speaker 1: meant was there's a way to look at life, not
Speaker 1: from a moralistic view of good or bad, but of
Speaker 1: action and consequences. So we don't make moral judgments. That
Speaker 1: was a bad thing. People make the best choice they
Speaker 1: can't they see at the time. Their friends may say,
Speaker 1: how can you make this choice? But to them it's
Speaker 1: the only choice they have are the best one they
Speaker 1: have available. So I've stopped really judging whether someone's good
Speaker 1: or bad, right or wrong, moral or not. But I
Speaker 1: do point out that certain actions may be more likely
Speaker 1: to lead to certain consequences. And that's one definition of wisdom,
Speaker 1: being able to get some some appreciate, some sight into
Speaker 1: the potential consequences of our actions, and that's more likely
Speaker 1: to guide our lives. And by the way that the
Speaker 1: brain with two sides of the brain, they're not just
Speaker 1: two wolves inside of us, but there are also these
Speaker 1: polarized characters inside of us. We each of us have
Speaker 1: the puritan and the heaponist, someone who's practices self self
Speaker 1: denial and someone who practices self indulgence. And a lot
Speaker 1: of our lives are balancing those two and finding out
Speaker 1: when it's appropriate to celebrate and expand into life and
Speaker 1: be more of a hedonist than other times, maybe that
Speaker 1: puritan being, you know, maybe leaner and following the rules
Speaker 1: that may be more useful as well. We have inside
Speaker 1: of us a callous person, and it's in a very
Speaker 1: sentimental person. And again there are moments where each is useful.
Speaker 1: And there we also have inside of us a peacock
Speaker 1: and a chicken. The peacock is very very They have
Speaker 1: a sense of self respect and and dignity, whereas the
Speaker 1: chicken lack of self respect. But there are times even
Speaker 1: that is appropriate those different roles to play in life.
Speaker 1: So those wolves just represent one aspect of our being.
Speaker 1: And I love the story and and that's why I
Speaker 1: wanted to just relate to it um in that way.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things I've always liked about
Speaker 1: at least some of the Dhist readings I've done, is
Speaker 1: that it moves away from good, bad, moral, immoral and
Speaker 1: talks about things that are skillful and unskillful. And that's
Speaker 1: a that's a term that resonates a lot more. But
Speaker 1: describing a skillful and unskillful wolf takes the teeth out
Speaker 1: of the analogy. So to speak, well, in a way,
Speaker 1: does you know we want we want the drama because
Speaker 1: when we tell the story, what makes a good story
Speaker 1: is dramatic conflict. Um. If if you have a story
Speaker 1: that has no conflict, people just walking here and then
Speaker 1: doing this and doing that. As a writer, it makes
Speaker 1: there's no story there, there's no there's it doesn't pull
Speaker 1: you in. So the idea of a good wolf and
Speaker 1: battle up a bad wolf for the sake of the analogy,
Speaker 1: I think it's still appropriate. But I did want to
Speaker 1: comment upon the idea of that within us there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like skillful or less skillful. That's nice, nice idea. Okay,
Speaker 1: life purpose okay, well. Robert Byrne, the quote master, said
Speaker 1: the purpose of life is a life of purpose. And
Speaker 1: I already indicated in Morita's advice to to know your
Speaker 1: purpose and then do what needs to be done. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, in the Peaceful Warrior movie some of your
Speaker 1: listeners may have seen that movie with Nick Nolty. Um,
Speaker 1: the character, my character Dan says, you know, he comes
Speaker 1: to a realization that what makes us happy is the journey,
Speaker 1: not just the destination. And there may be a certain
Speaker 1: wisdom to that, because most of our life is spent
Speaker 1: on the journey, not reaching the destination. And it's useful
Speaker 1: psychologically if you're going up a mountain, not to feel
Speaker 1: like a failure because you haven't reached the top, but
Speaker 1: to enjoy the journey on the way. Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 1: But the idea that it's it's just about the journey,
Speaker 1: the desky the journey. Excuse me, Um, that doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense in a way, because without a destination in mind,
Speaker 1: there is no journey. If we're at point A, we
Speaker 1: have to have a point B. And we're hardwired gold seekers. Anyway,
Speaker 1: look at a young baby. We have a five month
Speaker 1: old granddaughter now, little Beauty, and she she's not yet crawling,
Speaker 1: but when she starts, I can promise you if she
Speaker 1: sees something she wants, she's gonna be crawling purposefully toward
Speaker 1: that object. Um. And So even when we're babies, were
Speaker 1: always moving towards some goal, something we want. So I
Speaker 1: think the idea of having a purpose um is quite important.
Speaker 1: One of my books is called The Four Purposes of Life,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, I had some friends come up
Speaker 1: to me when I was writing that book and they said, Dan,
Speaker 1: I know the purpose of life. It's learning to love.
Speaker 1: You know, whatever the question, love is the answer. And
Speaker 1: I couldn't argue with that. It sounds very good to me.
Speaker 1: But then another friend said, no, no, we all know
Speaker 1: the purpose of life is is illumination, God, realization, unity,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, we want to describe it, enlightenment. And
Speaker 1: then another friend said, yeah, but that's all kind of philosophy.
Speaker 1: Those are mental ideas. We know our biological purpose is
Speaker 1: to reproduce and you know, keep the species going. And
Speaker 1: another friend said, but there are as many purposes as
Speaker 1: there are people. Um. Again, all those have a lot
Speaker 1: of wisdom. But if we look at our lives through
Speaker 1: the spectrum of well, just like we can look at
Speaker 1: the year and divide the year into four seasons, and
Speaker 1: just as we can divide the points on a compass
Speaker 1: into four primary directions. By looking in our lives from
Speaker 1: the filter of four purposes, it gives it our lives
Speaker 1: a sense of order and structure. We have a context
Speaker 1: instead of just waking up here on planet Earth wondering
Speaker 1: what is this about. So in the book I go
Speaker 1: into the four purposes, which I hate to even summarize
Speaker 1: them because people think, oh, I've heard that already, but
Speaker 1: no they haven't, not really. Um. The first is learning
Speaker 1: life's lessons. You know, daily life is a school, a
Speaker 1: perfect divine school where lessons repeat themselves until we learn them.
Speaker 1: And the second purpose is finding our career and calling
Speaker 1: and noticing the difference between a career and a calling
Speaker 1: and what that's about. And the third purpose has to
Speaker 1: do with another book I wrote called The Life You
Speaker 1: Were Born to Live, which helps us to find our
Speaker 1: life path, a certain pattern we're here to work out
Speaker 1: in this life. And the fourth purpose maybe the most
Speaker 1: important one of all, because it tied brings them all
Speaker 1: down to earth, which is our purpose arising in this moment.
Speaker 1: We may not know our cosmic purpose, but we can
Speaker 1: know our purpose right in this moment. You know yours
Speaker 1: right now you you write you and Chris do I do?
Speaker 1: It's very clear to us. So the more we focus
Speaker 1: on our purpose in this moment, it could be said,
Speaker 1: whatever the question now is the answer you said? There?
Speaker 1: We talked about sort of the life as a school, uh,
Speaker 1: and and lessons to learn? Could you give us to
Speaker 1: a couple of those lessons and and also elaborate on
Speaker 1: something I've heard you say, which is that, uh, the
Speaker 1: lessons get harder until you learn them, which I think
Speaker 1: is is interesting if I apply that to certain areas
Speaker 1: in my life that you might say are challenging, is
Speaker 1: you know, are they getting more challenging because there's something
Speaker 1: that you know that I'm not learning. Well, if we
Speaker 1: don't learn the easy lessons, they they tend to get
Speaker 1: more dramatic to get our attention. So that's why I
Speaker 1: say it's a perfect school. Um. Yes, If someone might say, okay,
Speaker 1: find an Yeah, the idea makes sense to me that
Speaker 1: life is a kind of school. And you know, I
Speaker 1: know more than I did. I understand I better perspective
Speaker 1: them when I was fourteen years old. But if life
Speaker 1: is a school, what courses do we have to pass
Speaker 1: in order to graduate? And that's a fair question, And
Speaker 1: as it turns out from what I've seen, I would
Speaker 1: propose that there are twelve different courses every one of
Speaker 1: us is already working on through our relationships, the work
Speaker 1: we do, health and physical issues, through the challenges of
Speaker 1: everyday life. We're gradually starting to see those twelve areas
Speaker 1: and essentially to recite them very briefly and by the way.
Speaker 1: There is an online another online course at my website
Speaker 1: called Master the Path of the Peaceful Warrior, which goes
Speaker 1: through all these twelve areas. Each week people get a
Speaker 1: new lesson on each of these and they are in
Speaker 1: a list discovering our Worth, which tends to help us
Speaker 1: avoid self sabotage. The second uh class we're here to
Speaker 1: to learn about in daily life is reclaiming our will
Speaker 1: and learning that what that's about. The third is energizing
Speaker 1: our body, major element for many people, and those form
Speaker 1: the foundation for all that follow including managing our money,
Speaker 1: taming our mind, and I have a very different take
Speaker 1: than the traditional, say Buddhistic approach um. The sixth area
Speaker 1: is trusting our tuition, which really is about balancing our
Speaker 1: brains because we tend to be left brain heavy in
Speaker 1: our culture and we need to start to trust our
Speaker 1: intuition and feel our ways since our way in life
Speaker 1: as well. As a boxer, you know that you can't
Speaker 1: think what's going to happen, you know, Mike Tyson said,
Speaker 1: first you make a plan, then you get hit. And
Speaker 1: then the last six courses are accept our emotions, face
Speaker 1: our fears, Illuminate our shadow, which is about self knowledge,
Speaker 1: then comes embrace our sexuality, then awaken our heart, and
Speaker 1: the final one is serve our world, which brings all
Speaker 1: of them full circle. What is graduation? Is there graduation?
Speaker 1: Is there a in your sense of reason behind Uh?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm teaching my son to drive, and you
Speaker 1: know the reason is so that he will be successful
Speaker 1: on the road and he can drive himself around. Do
Speaker 1: you does your work go into why or is that really?
Speaker 1: Is that more sort of life purpose? And everybody has
Speaker 1: to figure out. Well, whenever anybody asked me either or question,
Speaker 1: I usually answer both. Uh. But but I'd have to
Speaker 1: say that, I mean, you're asking a very fundamental question
Speaker 1: in the philosophical sense of what does graduation represent? Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm drawing an analogy, and no analogy is exact um.
Speaker 1: And in some traditions, look, we live in two worlds.
Speaker 1: We live in a conventional world of daily life, doing
Speaker 1: the duties and things we do, and playing our roles
Speaker 1: in everyday life. But there is a transcendental realm as
Speaker 1: well that many of the writers and teachers, from the
Speaker 1: Taoist masters to the Buddhist to the Tibetan masters, um
Speaker 1: to people like Pharaoau Emerson, the trends, cidentalist writers Um
Speaker 1: Chuang Su Allowed to the Greeks and Romans, Epictetus, Plato, Socrates,
Speaker 1: they were all pointing towards the transcendent. And people move
Speaker 1: to religion when they are genuinely pulled into and not
Speaker 1: just raised in a particular religion, but when they gravitate
Speaker 1: toward a religion or spiritual practice. It's reflects a yearning
Speaker 1: for the transcendent, to not rise above, but to see
Speaker 1: through and completely surrendered to the world, but to start
Speaker 1: to see the divine realm shining through that sense of okayness,
Speaker 1: as as a profound reminder that it is all right,
Speaker 1: that wherever we step, the path appears beneath our feet.
Speaker 1: And each of these realms has its own truths. For example,
Speaker 1: in the conventional world, death is absolutely real. We've seen it.
Speaker 1: I've seen my father die. I know the before and
Speaker 1: after um, and we grieve those we lose, depending on
Speaker 1: how old they are and so on. UM. In the
Speaker 1: conventional world, we are separate, individuated beings. If I bang
Speaker 1: my how it doesn't hurt you unless you're highly empathic UM.
Speaker 1: And if I have a feeling or a thought, you
Speaker 1: probably don't have the same one at the same time.
Speaker 1: So emotionally, mentally, and physically we're separate, individuated beings. Um
Speaker 1: we could also say that there are that accidents happen
Speaker 1: in the conventional world, we knock a glass of liquid
Speaker 1: over because we're not paying attention. But from a transcendental view,
Speaker 1: there are no accidents, only lessons. From a transcendental view,
Speaker 1: we are all one because we're the same consciousness or
Speaker 1: awareness shining through all these different eyes. And from a
Speaker 1: transcendental view, death is an illusion because who we are
Speaker 1: was never born and never dies, which is pure awareness
Speaker 1: or consciousness. Now, saying these words doesn't make it true
Speaker 1: that the challenge is realizing it, realizing it as a
Speaker 1: living truth where it penetrates us and often we burst
Speaker 1: out with laughter when we get the joke, the punchline
Speaker 1: to the cosmic joke, you know. So these are two
Speaker 1: realms in which we live, and that's important to understand
Speaker 1: when we talk about what does graduation mean. So from
Speaker 1: a conventional of the graduation is maybe success, a sense
Speaker 1: of fulfillment, functioning well in life, feeling happy as a
Speaker 1: default mode, even though all kinds of emotions come and
Speaker 1: go naturally. Um. That represents a full and mature human being.
Speaker 1: But from a transcendental view, graduation is absolute, nothing less
Speaker 1: than uh realization, the complete transcendence of the usual beliefs, thoughts,
Speaker 1: and ideas. That that creates suffering and attachment and clinging
Speaker 1: and resistance. But talking about it is one thing, as
Speaker 1: you pointed out, and living it and realizing it is another.
Speaker 1: Some people use psychotropic substances to get a preview of
Speaker 1: coming attractions and others, and that's that's fine for those
Speaker 1: who go that path. I've never recommended drugs as recreational activities,
Speaker 1: but as a sacred practice, it can be extremely useful,
Speaker 1: depending on the person in the place and the time. UM.
Speaker 1: But others do spiritual practices and contemplate and meditate, do
Speaker 1: inner work to clear what's in the way of that
Speaker 1: obvious truth that's right in front of our nose. And
Speaker 1: I think that's it's interesting that you know, I've I've
Speaker 1: you know, you've said, and a lot of other people
Speaker 1: have said that sort of even once you should you
Speaker 1: get far enough down the road or or or uh
Speaker 1: grasp that transcendental truth that life is still life right
Speaker 1: after that you know, it's sort of uh, you know,
Speaker 1: before enlightenment, chopwood carry water. After Enlightenment, chopwood carry water.
Speaker 1: I think you have a good story in the Peaceful Warrior, Uh,
Speaker 1: to some degree about that. So it sounds like what
Speaker 1: you're saying is even with that that full realization, Uh,
Speaker 1: you still have this other You still remain in this
Speaker 1: other realm exactly. Uh. And again, conventionally speaking, enlightenment makes
Speaker 1: almost no difference. You might feel a bit less stress,
Speaker 1: you might be a little more relaxed, breathe a little deeper,
Speaker 1: smile a bit more, have a good sense of humor,
Speaker 1: not take yourself as seriously. But except for those qualities,
Speaker 1: it's not visible. It's not obvious. People think someone is
Speaker 1: going to be shining and glowing and have mysterious powers. Now,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make much of a difference conventionally speaking. Transcendently speaking,
Speaker 1: everything changes. It makes all the difference in the world,
Speaker 1: and those who had a glimpse of it say this
Speaker 1: is the most important thing in life period. But on
Speaker 1: the other hand, you talk about a path. We tend
Speaker 1: to picture things in a journey. We're here, we want
Speaker 1: to be there, But the seeking only reinforces the sense
Speaker 1: of dilemma that set us seeking in the first place.
Speaker 1: In truth, there is no journey. It's a journey without distance.
Speaker 1: Come me back to exactly who we are right now.
Speaker 1: The simplicity of it great. Do you want to spend
Speaker 1: a minute and talk about the your your latest book
Speaker 1: that you wrote with your daughter. I'd love to mention it.
Speaker 1: It's been a real labor of love on many levels. Um.
Speaker 1: The creative compass is certainly for writers, any writer, and
Speaker 1: there are many many books on writing. Let me acknowledge
Speaker 1: that the feedback we're getting is this is this covers
Speaker 1: it all, um, And it's just it's not a huge book,
Speaker 1: but it really does touch upon the entire creative journey.
Speaker 1: So even if people aren't don't see themselves as writers,
Speaker 1: we all right, we all tell stories every day, um,
Speaker 1: And this helps us to understand when we create anything,
Speaker 1: it goes through these five stages of dream, draft, develop, refine,
Speaker 1: and share. And the creative compass takes people and guides
Speaker 1: them like a compass along that journey, along that whole path.
Speaker 1: And I learned a lot writing the book, um myself,
Speaker 1: and so it's been a you know, I think Sierra
Speaker 1: and I combined wrote a better book than either one
Speaker 1: of us could have written on our own. Um, so
Speaker 1: quite proud of it. And we're we're doing book signings
Speaker 1: and so on regarding the book. And there's a link
Speaker 1: to it on the website as well. And she has
Speaker 1: a wonderful blog on our journey together creating this book
Speaker 1: at her website, but I linked to it on my homepage.
Speaker 1: So um, there we are. But thank you for letting
Speaker 1: me mention that. Yeah, maybe just share a second. I mean, I,
Speaker 1: you know, having having kids, I can imagine how wonderful
Speaker 1: it would be to sort of create something like that
Speaker 1: with your child. Can you just share a little bit
Speaker 1: about what that experience was like for you, Not so
Speaker 1: much what the books about, but but what it was
Speaker 1: like working with your daughter. Sure. Um, when she was young,
Speaker 1: I would edit her work. I would review it and
Speaker 1: make comments and suggestions. And then she got older, she
Speaker 1: her writing got stronger and stronger, and she she took
Speaker 1: in much of the advice that I get her, excuse me,
Speaker 1: and that other people gave her. And she had a
Speaker 1: very good education. UM at Stanford Madill Journalism School, Masters
Speaker 1: in Journalism. What lived in Lebanon UM and learned became
Speaker 1: proficient in speaking, reading and writing in Arabic UM five
Speaker 1: at Capital she was again very good educational foundation. And
Speaker 1: so I've been thinking about doing a writing book for
Speaker 1: some years that I might be able to write something
Speaker 1: original that hadn't been said. Um, But it was still
Speaker 1: kind of a vague but sticky idea. It stayed with
Speaker 1: me for a decade and finally I decided, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: time to write this book. And it was a perfectly
Speaker 1: natural thing to ask Sierra on this particular book if
Speaker 1: she might collaborate with me, and we were both glad
Speaker 1: that that it turned out that way. Um. We have
Speaker 1: very different processes in working, but that can't helped us
Speaker 1: appreciate the process of every writer that it may be different.
Speaker 1: So that's why the subtitle is writing your Way from
Speaker 1: Inspiration to Publication excellent. UM. Do you have anything Dan
Speaker 1: that you feel like we should we should cover that's
Speaker 1: that's relevant to our our podcast and our theme that
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about. You know, I feel like we've
Speaker 1: covered an immense amount of material actually, um, and I
Speaker 1: hope any listeners might want to go back and listen
Speaker 1: to it a second time, because many of us we're hearing.
Speaker 1: We're it's like we're listening, but we're not necessarily hearing.
Speaker 1: We can only hear through perceptual filters the way we
Speaker 1: see the world, and so little by little it sinks in.
Speaker 1: We don't just learn something. We learned deeper and then
Speaker 1: deeper until it penetrates us. So there have been some
Speaker 1: as I think you appreciate some seminal ideas we've touched
Speaker 1: upon today. And you know, they say, you you teach
Speaker 1: what you need to learn. I must needed have needed
Speaker 1: to learn a lot after sevent books. So I think
Speaker 1: it's important I just leave your listeners with the importance
Speaker 1: of trusting the process of their life unfolding and where
Speaker 1: they are right now and wherever we step the path
Speaker 1: is going to appear beneath our feet exactly. And I
Speaker 1: think we did cover you know, I think we've covered
Speaker 1: about three or four books of your material very quickly.
Speaker 1: So I would also encourage listeners to go out and
Speaker 1: and read some of that stuff in in more depth
Speaker 1: than We'll have all that links to all that on
Speaker 1: our show notes on the site. Uh Dan, thank you
Speaker 1: very much. It's a it's a great pleasure to have
Speaker 1: you on the show. I've been like I said, I
Speaker 1: your work meant a lot to me a long time ago,
Speaker 1: still does and I'm I'm really happy we could get
Speaker 1: you on here. I do many interviews, Eric, this is
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. Thank you very much. If what
Speaker 1: you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making
Speaker 1: a monthly donation to support the One You Feed podcast.
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