1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: want you to know. Today's episode, spoiler Alert is about 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: more than one conspiracy. We are exploring a rat's nest 11 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: or a rat king of interlinked events. These are things 12 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: that at a cursory glance might seem like isolated tragic 13 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: cases of a lone wolf or what are sometimes called 14 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: bad apples. However, as we are going to find out 15 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: very shortly, each of these cases turns out to be 16 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: the facet of something much much larger and something incredibly dangerous. Because, 17 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: you see, folks, it turns out that the US military 18 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: maybe training the domestic terrorists of the future. Yeah, that's 19 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: I mean, have you guys we talked about this, you know, 20 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: like Timothy McVeigh and um. Various groups that aim for 21 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: insurrection or they want to seceed from the nation. I 22 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: think there was a stat we learned years ago that 23 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: at any given time there are at least a hundred 24 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: secessionist groups of varying seriousness in the U S. Alone. Yeah, 25 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean there are And I guess the 26 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: big question is how much has the military itself been 27 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: infiltrated by groups like this, right, or how often have 28 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: these groups used the military as a tool for training exactly? 29 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: Here are the facts. So, the U. S. Military was 30 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: segregated for a long time. It was desegregated in nineteen which, 31 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: in the span of history still isn't really that long ago. 32 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: After it was formally desegregated, there were still segregated military 33 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: units until nineteen fifty four, the same time that Bernese 34 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: convinced America to help United Fruit with Coup and Guatemala. 35 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: That's the same year that these final segregated units were disbanded. 36 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: And now, even though it might not occur to a 37 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 1: lot of people outside of the military, the U. S. 38 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: Military is one of the most ethnically diverse and integrated 39 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: institutions in the entire country. It's it's crazy when you 40 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: think about it. Yeah, and and you know, no matter 41 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: where an individual comes from, no matter what beliefs an 42 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: individual has, uh, this person, this individual has to work 43 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: with so many other people, UM in order to to 44 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: make any unit function within the military, you just have 45 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: to you have to do that to function, at least 46 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: in a mechanical way, right, And the United States Department 47 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: of Defense has actually prohibited members of the military UM 48 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: from any kind of active participation in you know, hate groups, 49 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: white supremacist groups, any other extremist groups since and this 50 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: is you may recognize this. We already mentioned his name 51 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: in the episode that's when the decorated Gulf War veteran 52 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: and white supremacist Timothy McVeigh carried out the Oklahoma City bombing. 53 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: And you can you can understand why and it like 54 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: that would cause action on you know, a of an 55 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: entire institution wide basis, absolutely, I mean, because of course, 56 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: the Armed Services has sort of safeguards in place that 57 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: prohibits sort of which you might consider it at the 58 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: very basic level, conflicts of interest, you know, prohibition of 59 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: members being members of other groups whose goals and uh, 60 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: I guess moral codes could run counter to the goals 61 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: of the military or the nation at large. For example, 62 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: you wouldn't want members of an army to also be 63 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: a member of another army of another nation. I mean, 64 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: that's the most basic way of thinking about it. You 65 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't want someone on a counter terrorism initiative also being 66 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: in a terrorist group. It seems silly, but this is 67 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: the most cut and dry way of thinking about it. Yeah, exactly. 68 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: I mean, look, as of there are well over a 69 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: million active duty personnel in the military. They come from 70 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: all over the country, have all like a wide range 71 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: of different beliefs, socioeconomic situations and so on. Uh, these 72 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: are people who in many cases wouldn't hang out with 73 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: each other for fun, you know what I mean. It's 74 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: it's that may have never even had the chance to 75 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: meet each other. So we have to, as as you 76 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: guys point out, we have to have a cohesive structure, 77 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: and we have to make sure that the people in 78 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: that structure, the individual links in the chain, are all 79 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: working towards the same common goal. So that's why you 80 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: don't want someone who's working in counter terrorism moonlighting as 81 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: a terrorist. That's that's why you don't want people who 82 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: are ostensibly fighting for equality or representing the goals of 83 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: values of this nation to also be members of groups 84 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: that object to equality or object to the goals of 85 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: a nation. And so each branch of the military has 86 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,799 Speaker 1: these kind of equal opportunity manuals that specifically prohibit service 87 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: members from joining things like the KKK or neo Nazi 88 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: groups or other extremist organizations. And troops who are caught 89 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: with ties to white nationalism are typically going to be 90 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: punished by their commanders for violating one of two things. 91 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: It's either going to be Article ninety two of the 92 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,239 Speaker 1: Uniform Code of Military Justice, or they can be punished 93 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: under Article one hundred and thirty four for engaging in 94 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: conduct that is generally considered discrediting and prejudicial to good 95 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: order and discipline. And I would assume like on the 96 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: worst case side, that would be a court martial and 97 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: like a dishonorable discharge. But I'm sure there's slap on 98 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: the wrist versions of this kind of punishment as well. Right, 99 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: Oh man, it goes yeah to say the least. Yeah, 100 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: there's a variance. Um, And and let's talk about that. 101 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: Let's actually look at some examples here. Well, we'll give 102 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: you a couple of quotes that are directly from the 103 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: army or this is at least one directly from the army. Quote. 104 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: Participation in extremist organizations and activities by Army personnel is 105 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: inconsistent with the responsibilities of military service. It is the 106 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: policy of the United States Army to provide equal opportunity 107 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: and treatment for all soldiers without regard to race, color, religion, gender, 108 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: or national origin. Enforcement of this policy is a responsibility 109 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: of command, is vitally important to unit cohesion and moral 110 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: and is essential to the Army's ability to accomplish its mission. 111 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: That PR person did a good job. I mean it does. 112 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: It does. It reads as PR right a million and 113 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: it it has to be written that way, honestly, I agreed. 114 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,559 Speaker 1: Let's talk about how they define extremist groups. Get ready, 115 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: first of more breathtaking literature. Ready again, this is this 116 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: is from the Army. Here we go. Organizations and activities 117 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: are ones that advocate racial, gender, or ethnic hatred or intolerance, 118 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: advocate create or engage in illegal discrimination based on race, color, gender, religion, 119 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: or national origin, or advocate the use of force or 120 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: violence or unlawful means to deprive individuals of their rights. 121 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: Under the United States Constitution, or the laws of the 122 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: United States or any state by unlawful means. I mean, 123 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm struck by everything in there, except the 124 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: part that says in the United States Constitution or the 125 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: laws of the United States could be describing the military itself. 126 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: Oh like that? Especially well on the gender front, there's 127 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: I think there's some sand to what you're saying, but 128 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: I don't think uh, racial or ethnic hatred. I mean, 129 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: we we hate our enemies, and some of them are 130 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: racially different than us, you know. I mean, I again, 131 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm over saying the case a little bit, 132 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: but you know, I mean, if you think of people 133 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: in the Middle East, I mean, there's certainly an in 134 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: grained distrust and dare I say hatred for people that 135 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: look a certain way? You know that. I feel like 136 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: people come out of, you know, the conflicts in those 137 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: countries perhaps with those kinds of feelings. I don't, I 138 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm sure it's not everybody. It's it's weird, man. 139 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: Because do you notice that what we talked about in 140 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: that paragraph before um enforcement of this policy is a 141 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: responsibility of command. Right now, that phrase alone means you're 142 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: gonna get varying results depending on who is command. Who 143 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: is this command. This is going to be very important later. 144 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: But look, folks, government manuals are probably never going to 145 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: win a pulitzer, but they do make an important point. 146 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 1: And let's let's put it bluntly. Let's get past the 147 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: the jargon in the buzz words. Here. Uncle Sam is 148 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: essentially saying, look, if we want people to work together, 149 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: we just can't have racist in the mix. They are 150 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: the weak link in the chain and they are going 151 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,239 Speaker 1: to be undependable when hits the fan because racism indicates 152 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: a number of things. One of the first things that 153 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: indicates is a lack of critical thinking skills, which can 154 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: be taught. But one of the second things that indicates 155 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: is a strong uh, a motive reaction rather than a 156 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: logical one. So they're not people you want on the team. No, 157 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: let me quickly walk back my little cute comment that 158 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: I mean. I am not in any way implying that 159 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: the military at large is a inherently racist organization than 160 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: anyone who serves in the military comes away with racist 161 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: ideas in any way, shape or form. I just again, 162 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: it was more a response to the absurd pr noss 163 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: of this kind of writing well historically to no, I 164 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: think your your point could hold because consider all of 165 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: the heavily racially charged propaganda of World War two and 166 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: wars of yesteryear, service members were encouraged uh to have 167 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: incredibly prejudicial attitudes, and they were indoctrinated to a large 168 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: degree as recently as Vietnam. I mean, you know that 169 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: they have to Charlie, and of course operations in Afghanistan. Um. 170 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: We we've talked about before on this show that the 171 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: other thing that occurs there is almost a necessity to 172 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: to the mission to to well, to get the mindset, 173 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: to to instill within an individual the mindset that the 174 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: person you're shooting at is is less than human, is 175 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: not a you know, a person with a family, with 176 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: feelings and all those things, right, I mean, it's it's necessary. 177 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: We've we've talked before about how difficult it is to 178 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: get an individual soldier to actually fire at with intent 179 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: to kill an enemy combatant. That's not an easy thing 180 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: to get into somebody's head. It shouldn't be. Well yeah, 181 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: I know, I agree, it shouldn't be, but it's it's 182 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: not like it. It is not an easy thing to do. 183 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: So you have to use tactics like what we're discussing 184 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: here to push push it over the line basically, while 185 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: at the same time, UH, somehow drawing a clear line 186 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: of demarcation and saying the people you work with, the 187 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: people you serve with, have to be treated as equals 188 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: despite all of the stuff we're telling you about people 189 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: you're fighting. UH. Anyway, it turns out these policies may 190 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,239 Speaker 1: be fantastic on paper, but they are not as effective 191 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: in practice. And that is a massive understatement on my part. 192 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: So the question today is what exactly is going on 193 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: with supremacists in the military. Here's where it gets crazy. 194 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: There's quite a lot going on actually with white supremacist 195 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: in particular in the military. Let's consider the case of 196 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: one Christopher Hassan. He is UH. He was a former 197 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: US Coast Guard lieutenant Justice. January, he was sentenced to 198 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: more than thirteen years of prison for federal level drug 199 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: and gun crimes. He was also planning to commit mass murder, 200 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: a serial series of murders against various politicians and UH 201 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: journalists that he did not care for. He was a 202 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: self described white nationalist. He had served in the Marine 203 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,599 Speaker 1: Corps from eight eight to ninety three, he became a corporal. 204 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: He'd also been in the National Guard before joining the 205 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: Coast Guard. I mean this, this guy was in the system. 206 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: And why the entire time he was serving in these roles, 207 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: he was radicalizing. He was reading white power manifestos online. 208 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: He was compiling this hit list. Uh, the the alphabet 209 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: soup guys pulled his search histories and there very not subtle. 210 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: They're like, where where is best place to live? DC? 211 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: Democratic Senators d C? Do senators have protection? D C? 212 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: Good deal on C four? Right? Well, yeah, and his 213 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: his hit list was was an actual list of hits, right, 214 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: and it was focused on I guess the Democratic senators 215 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: and other politicians that he that he thought would be 216 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: good targets. I guess due to his views, like who 217 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: were in opposition to him? Yeah, and he was unstable, 218 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: I mean he wasn't. The thing is with folks who 219 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: reach this this level of I will call it disassociation 220 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: or bubbling. Uh. The goals were the aims become increasingly 221 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: disconnected from reality, by which I mean the things they 222 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: want to do become increasingly different from the things they 223 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: could realistically pull off. He wanted to turn the Pacific 224 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: Northwest into an all white home land, you know, like 225 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: the good old days, which is how Oregon has founded. 226 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: That is true. Uh, he wanted to use biological weapons too, 227 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: and this is a direct quote kill almost every last 228 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: person on earth. It's also a tall order. Uh yeah. 229 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: What was he a part of an organization or was 230 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: he acting alone with all of this research he was 231 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: doing and or like, was he linked up with anyone? 232 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: Are we aware of that? It's a good question because 233 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: I am not directly aware of prominent membership and things. 234 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: But we have to understand the concept of membership has 235 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: evolved with the rise of social media. If you are 236 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: a mod on a forum for neo Nazis, that means 237 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: you're probably a neo Nazi, right, or you work for 238 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: the FBI, but doesn't mean that you are a member 239 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: of you know, uh, storm Front or something like that, 240 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: not necessarily. It's tricky. But the thing is about this 241 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: guy who was caught before he was able to carry 242 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: out any of these planned assassinations or attacks. And there 243 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: are more Christopher Hassan's out there. There are many, many 244 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: more than you might think, and some don't wait to 245 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: get booted out to join supremacist organization and love to 246 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: if we can just briefly talk about UM, one of 247 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: the strangest uh racist ors. I guess you could call 248 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: him supremacist organizations that have infiltrated in some part uh 249 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: the U S. Military. We we did an episode on 250 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: this previously, but I'm still I'm still fascinated and very 251 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: confused by this group. Okay, so let's think about another case, 252 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: the case of U. S. Army Private Ethan Melzer, who 253 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: enlisted in and was deployed in October of twenty nineteen. 254 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: He was radicalized by reading propaganda from things like the 255 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: organization you're talking about, the Order of the Nine Angles, 256 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: and while he was deployed, he UM had designs on 257 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: orchestrating an ambush of his own units, sending intel about 258 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: the unit to an alleged member of al Qaeda. What 259 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: that's a lot. Yeah. He sent texts mind you to 260 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: an O nine a thread arguing his military training, survival 261 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: and links to other groups could be an asset. If 262 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: this was over telegram, the uh the messaging service. Uh yeah, yeah. Uh. 263 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: We have this statement from in part from press release 264 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: by Audrey Strauss, the acting U S. Attorney for the 265 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: Southern District of New York, and Strauss walks us through 266 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: the ins and outs of how Melzer attempted to sell 267 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: out his unit, and here's what she had to say. 268 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: Melzer allegedly attempted to orchestrate a murderous ambush on his 269 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: own unit by unlawfully revealing its location, strength, and armaments 270 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: to a neo Nazi anarchist white supremacist group. Melzer allegedly 271 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: provided this potentially deadly information, intending that it be conveyed 272 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: to jihadist terrorists. As alleged, Melzer was motivated by racism 273 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: and hatred as he attempted to carry out this ultimate 274 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: act of betrayal. And as you might recognize from previous episodes, 275 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: the Order of the Nine Angles is not and guess 276 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: you can't call him your garden variety white power group there. 277 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: They wouldn't call themselves a cult, but they do a 278 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: lot of culti stuff. They practice what's known as left 279 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: hand magic and uh, they're into some real their beliefs 280 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: are really disturbing, but the really confusing. Please dive into 281 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: that rabbit hole, find our previous episode, uh, and then 282 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: do research for sure, Like Vincent, it's confusing and it's 283 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:32,479 Speaker 1: difficult to decipher from the outside. So yeah, just it's 284 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: left hand magic like when you make coins disappear and 285 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: stuff or oh no, no, that's the right hand magic. 286 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: Left hand magic is like the the curse your family, 287 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: the seventh generation, the all the stuff you hear about, 288 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: you hear people being accused of in which trials I'd 289 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: take offense to that as a left handed person. Is 290 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: the left hand like the evil hand historically culture, Yeah, 291 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: unfortunately it's these in redheads. It just really get on. 292 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: We're all in that boat. So also, uh, a huge 293 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: percentage of US presidents are left handed, so it's it's 294 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: it's a rare and noble trait, I would say, and 295 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: the people, uh, the people in civilizations passed with their 296 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: discrimination were just being dicks off. It's okay, It's that's 297 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: less unless actually figures into my day to day life, 298 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: as I very rarely write things with an implement, and 299 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: I do everything else right handed, so no one would 300 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: know unless you see me, like sign a credit card 301 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: receipt or something. Yeah, I mean, I I feel you, man, 302 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: I'm I'm technically ambidextrous, but I I love that point 303 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: you make. How many people do write longhand it would 304 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: be called Buddy. Alex Williams does. Yeah. He keeps a 305 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: little notepad with him and anytime you give him a 306 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: recommendation or sugg question for something to read or listen to, 307 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: he always jots it down. I find it charming. I'm 308 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: tried dexterous, but we can talk about that later. I'm 309 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: a big fan of writing long hand. I think it 310 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: helps your brain process things differently than typing. So I 311 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: encourage everybody like you can't see off camera, but I 312 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: have just piles of weird notebooks and stuff, so the 313 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: and mole skeins, which are overpriced, but I still love them. 314 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: It's nostalgia anything. They end up in a lot of 315 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: swag bags. So I do have a few mole skins 316 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: laying around from giveaway. It's not mole skin, it's mole skin, 317 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, I'm sending. The jury is still out on that. 318 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: I've heard. I've heard it said both ways. I like 319 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: the same mole scheme just because it sounds fun and 320 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: it's a nonsensical thing. Whereas we know what mole skin is. 321 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: But I don't know what do you think, Ben? I 322 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: just clearly haven't had enough in my life. I need 323 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: to get more in my life. I think we'll act 324 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: surprised when when the all days come around. Matt also, 325 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: I just think mole skin feels kind of gross a 326 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: little bit, a little bit. But speaking of gross things, 327 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: what is the scope of this conspiracy? Are these indeed 328 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: just a few bad apples? It's a questionable answer. After 329 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: we pause for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. 330 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: So let's look at a survey from twenty nineteen. It 331 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: was from readers of Military Times, this is an independent 332 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: news outlet, and uh, this is what they found. More 333 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: than thirty six percent of active duty troops surveyed said 334 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: they had personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological 335 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: driven racism within the ranks in recent months. And that 336 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: was a four percent increase from a similar survey that 337 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: was done the year before. In and then in June 338 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: of this year, something interesting came the way of Congress 339 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: military officials. They drew a line between active participation and 340 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: quote mere membership. Those are two quotes there, active participation 341 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: versus mere membership. The officials said, mere membership in white 342 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: supremacist groups is quote not prohibited for American service members, 343 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: but active participation then this is defined as you know, 344 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: going to a rally, going to a fund raising uh event, 345 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: or fundraising yourself for a racist group. That is wrong. 346 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: But if you're just you know, if you're just in 347 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: the club, what are we gonna do? That's essentially what 348 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: what was told to Congress. Yeah, but what does that 349 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: mean if you if you think about that, Like I 350 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: was trying to figure out a good example of this, 351 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: So say, for instance, so I have a fun example 352 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: and I have a disturbing one. All right, the fun 353 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: example would be like, I don't know who's ah, who's 354 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: a quirky celebrity, like a niche celebrity or musician. You 355 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: guys like Zach Galafanakis. Perfect, thank you, So Zach Galafnakis. Uh. 356 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: Let's say you are in the Zach Galafnakis fan club, right, 357 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: and you have joined the fan club. You have a 358 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: little card that says Zach Galafnakis Fan Club. Uh. They 359 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: send you a swag bag with your Zach Galafannakis mole 360 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: skiing uh and your T shirt and maybe some like 361 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: branded provolactics or something of the hangover to on DVD. Yeah, 362 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: and they say Zach Galla fanatics on it. Yes, that's Matt, 363 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: Yes they do, Yes, they do Matt. So you remember 364 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: the Zach Galafanatics and you have the swag bag. Uh. 365 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: And then someone says, hey, you don't actually like Zach Galafannakis. 366 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: Do you get out? And then you say no, no, 367 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: why would I Look, it's just my right as an American. 368 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: It's free speech for me to be a member of 369 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: this group. But I would never buy a DVD of 370 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: his work. I would never go to Zach Galifianakis show. 371 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm just this tattoo of his character from Dinner for Schmucks, Right, 372 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: that's not that's not there. So that's that's the You 373 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: see how that line between just being a member and 374 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: being active is very, very troubling, because the disturbing example 375 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: would be something like, uh, people who joined those pro 376 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: child abuse networks, those pro pedophilia networks like Nambler or something. Uh, 377 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: they can say, oh, I'm just a member. That's gross, 378 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: you know that just imagining somebody's I'm just a member 379 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: of namble it what I mean? You could make the 380 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: argument that you're infiltrating the network of pedophiles and Zach 381 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: Gallifan attics. You know, she's to be clear, those are 382 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: two separate things. Those are two separate things. Um, but 383 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: you know that could be the argument you're making or 384 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: you're just checking it out. Just seems like like like, uh, 385 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, like in fight club where the dude goes 386 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: to what is it like bereavement meetings or what are 387 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: they like? Narcotics? Anonymous type things, sex sex attict meaning 388 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: that's what it is. And there's a real life analog 389 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: of that argument none other than Pete Townsend of the 390 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: Who You remember that when he said that when he 391 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: was caught studying depictions of child abuse. Uh, he said, 392 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: I don't remember that. I vaguely remember that. Yeah, he 393 00:26:54,520 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: said it was research to take down the petos. So 394 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: you see how that that gets sticky in the in 395 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: the idea, we can say all the livelong day that 396 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: someone is just a member of an extremist group for 397 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: some reason, and the question is at what point, like, 398 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: what is the difference between actively supporting something and passively 399 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: being a member of it? Will We'll look forward to 400 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: hearing your stance on this. Zac Gallifan attics, there's there's 401 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: something else that happens. So there are two things we 402 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: talked about. That guy in the order of the Nine Angles, 403 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: he was like in his early twenties when this happened. Uh. 404 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: At which point, of course, there is the psychological argument 405 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: that the brain is not fully formed, which does have 406 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: some stand to it. But we what we need to 407 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: talk about also would be veterans. They play a big 408 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: part in this conspiracy. Some veterans, a very small percentage 409 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: of veterans. Veterans have held leadership roles in some of 410 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: the most prominent some of the most well known white 411 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: supremacist groups. Investigative journalists are still uncovering new members of 412 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: violent racist groups who are also current members of the Army, 413 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: the Marine Corps, air Force, and so on. Uh. But 414 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: just another snapshot. The same month that Hassan was convicted, 415 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: in January, a U. S. Army vet and a former 416 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 1: combat engineer from the Canadian Army Reserve were found to 417 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: be alleged members of a neo Nazi group known as 418 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: the Base. The Base may be familiar to some of 419 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: us because prosecutors say the Base was discussing plans to 420 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: create violence at a pro gun rally in Virginia. With 421 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: the ultimate aim of sparkanness civil war. Wow, it's still 422 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: hard to for me to wrap my head around that 423 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: being the end goal for some of these groups, but 424 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: we know it historically that has been one of the 425 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: one of the reasons for joining joining a group like 426 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: this before the existence of a group like this is 427 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: to fulment, Like one of the first things is to 428 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: fulment a civil war. Let's get a civil war going 429 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: on so we can then go in through the ashes 430 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: of the country and rebuild it as we see fit. Uh. 431 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: And you know, without putting to find a political point 432 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: on it, it starts to feel like the idea of 433 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: these proud boys and some of these groups that we're 434 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: seeing today could be that thing, you know, the kind 435 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: of foot soldiers in the streets sort of trying to 436 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: fulement that civil war and bringing the war home or 437 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: or whatever and trying to you know, shut down the libs. Literally. Yeah. 438 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: And you know, there's an author, their numerous authors, one 439 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: in particular who would agree with that point. Kathleen Bellew 440 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: who is the author of a book called Bring the 441 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: War Home, notes that US veterans have played key roles 442 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: in why supremacist movements in the United States for more 443 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: than a hundred years. I mean, the Ku Klux Klan 444 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: had new waves of resurgence after both World Wars, after 445 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: the Vietnam War. Also, it was founded by a group 446 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: of Confederate veterans. This author sees similarities just like you 447 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: pointed out in the recent wave of all right white 448 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: supremacists organizing, and she says that this has been shaped 449 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: to a great degree by America's war on terror in 450 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: the Middle East. And we we see something interesting here 451 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: because again the US military is trying to uh to 452 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: filter out racist in in the recruiting process, and this 453 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: has led some supremacist groups to adopt a different strategy 454 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: to encourage young members to join the US military because 455 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: of the training and the access to weapons that they 456 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: will gain. And then they can use that access and 457 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: use that expertise to teach other members of the organizations 458 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: after they leave the service or during their time in 459 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: the service, maybe even actively recruit vulnerable people who are 460 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: serving with them. Man, that's pretty disturbing again, using the 461 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: military as a training and weapons acquisition opportunity, and and 462 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: just the one thing to just put a point on there, 463 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: we are talking specifically about white supremacist groups and organizations 464 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: and individuals who have been you know, using this tactic. 465 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: But like we said in the beginning, this applies to 466 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: any hate based or um discriminatory based organization or group. Right, Um, 467 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: it's it's it could be anything, and it really is 468 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: just I mean, just even talking about this is a 469 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: super touchy subject act um in the concept of the 470 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: military being used in this way, and unfortunately, there have 471 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: been attempts and and plans put in place to fix 472 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: this problem. But as we've seen in the past and 473 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: we will continue to see in the future, unless there's 474 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: a massive change taking action from you know, politicians within 475 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: the United States, specifically within Congress to actually write a 476 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: bill or you know, something to fix this issue, to 477 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: change something. It's been difficult historically and again probably in 478 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: the future. In two thousand nine, under the Obama administration, 479 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: there were Republican members of Congress and they were essentially 480 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: attempting to get the Department of Homeland Security chief to 481 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: apologize after there was an intelligence briefing that warned about 482 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: some of this stuff that the U. S military veterans 483 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would be vulnerable 484 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: to some type of route radicalization by white supremacists and 485 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: by anti government groups and some of the alt right, 486 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: uh more extremist splinter groups that we've seen. Yeah, and 487 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: it was a good flag to raise on the side 488 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: of homeland security because they're just they're conveying what they 489 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: find in an intelligence briefing. Uh. The reaction from the 490 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: reaction from those who objected to this characterization or this 491 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: intelligence briefing, they were really reacting to what they saw 492 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: as something that was somehow offensive or an attack on 493 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: conservative identifying people at large, And they said, well, this 494 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: what what is it? This implies that all conservatives are 495 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: somehow a bigger threat to the US than al Qaeda, 496 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: which is incredib like, cartoonishly misleading. It is so clear 497 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: that supremacists and conservative people are not the same, because 498 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: just because you might have a more conservative view on 499 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: something like how much you should pay in taxes, right, 500 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: that doesn't automatically mean that same person and somehow pro genocide. 501 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: It's it's frankly kind of ridiculous that we would even 502 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: have to spell that out here. But that's some of 503 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: the vitriol that that was happening. And there was a 504 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: bit of an appeal to emotion. But well, yeah, and 505 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: I would just had add to that, just because someone 506 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: would view themselves as morally conservative even has no correlation 507 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: with with these other hate groups. There's absolutely zero correlation. 508 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: Don't ever let yourself believe that, no matter what you 509 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: read on you know, whatever social media outlet you're looking at. Um, 510 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: just just be aware that's all. Yeah. Again, you know, 511 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: it's the danger of the odd brush, which is very 512 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: convenient for many powerful organizations, the media included. So while 513 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: objecting to that intelligence briefing may have been, um, a 514 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: good short term move for the politicians in question, you know, 515 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: get them some headlines, get them some column space in 516 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: the newspapers of note, in the long term, it was not. 517 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: It's not a helpful thing because the problem is real 518 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: and the problem seems to be increasing when we talked 519 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: about this conspiracy. If you look at cases of white 520 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: nationalism in the US military since the attacks on September eleven, 521 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,320 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, you are going to find dozens 522 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: and dozens of cases of white nationalists in the military. 523 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: And these are just the examples of troops who have 524 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: been caught, who have been written about in the media 525 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: and have been disciplined or punished. And if we think 526 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: about that earlier poll, if more than one in three 527 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: troops today have witnessed something like this in the ranks, 528 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: then we have to we have to think along the 529 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: lines of the excellent article written by David Christinger for 530 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: war Horse dot org, where he asked how many white 531 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: nationalists in the military don't just slip through the cracks 532 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: during the recruitment process, how many also remain undetected, unaccounted for, 533 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: and unpunished. And he has a quote here that I 534 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: think I think sums up the problem really well. Yes, 535 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: And Chris Singer writes this quote, the truth is that 536 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: no one knows how prevalent white nationalism is in the U. S. Military. 537 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: During a hearing of the House Armed Services Subcommittee on 538 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: Military Personnel in February, representatives of Naval Criminal Investigative Service 539 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: and the Army's Criminal Investigation Division testified they had no 540 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: reliable day on how many troops have been administratively discharged 541 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,959 Speaker 1: for promoting white supremacist ideologies. Um The Marine Corps, which 542 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: has seen its fair share of white nationalism among its ranks, 543 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: does not track the number of Marines and discharges. Four 544 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: ties to white nationalist groups. So this goes back to 545 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: that question I asked at the top of the show, right, like, 546 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: is there a slap on the wrist version of this 547 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: punishment that we're talking about. It would seem so, Oh, 548 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: it would seem way so. And we'll talk more about 549 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: that after a quick word from our sponsor and we're back. 550 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: So in this episode, we've been setting up a couple 551 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 1: of things that've been alluded to the have been foreshadowed. 552 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: I'd like to present one of the biggest problems with this. 553 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: So one of the problems, as Christinger put so succinctly, 554 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: is at parts of the military that should be keeping 555 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: track of this stuff are not. For one reason or another. 556 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: Maybe they've been prevented from doing so, maybe there's just 557 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: red tape in the way. It reminds me of the 558 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: FBI's weird blind spot when it comes to tallying disappearances 559 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: in public parks. Now we have to talk about the 560 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: other problem, which is punishment, Matt. As you mentioned in 561 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: the earlier quote from the military's Operations Manual, the severity 562 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: of a of punishment or discipline that a white nationalist 563 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: receives and whether they're punished at all depends entirely on 564 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: their commanders, and those commanders typically you're going to have 565 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: almost discretion over how any violation is investigated, prosecuted, or educated. 566 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: So to know the full extent of the supremacist infiltration occurring, 567 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: the d D would have to do something like this. 568 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,959 Speaker 1: They would have to go back and see how many 569 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: people violated Articles and A hundred and thirty four. They 570 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: would have to add those numbers together. But those numbers, 571 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: again only include the people who were caught and discipline, 572 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: So it leaves out anyone who was caught and reported 573 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: to their commander but then had their commanders say, I 574 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: don't know, we have bigger fish to fry. I don't 575 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,280 Speaker 1: know if we need to investigate this or discipline this person. 576 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: Maybe we just tell them stop m M. But it 577 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,800 Speaker 1: doesn't make you wonder who's watching the watchman, who's looking 578 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: at the commanders to make sure they're above board. According 579 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:51,280 Speaker 1: to Carter F. Smith, he's a former criminal investigator. Currently 580 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 1: he's a criminal justice instructor at Middle Tennessee University Middle 581 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: Tennessee State University UH. According to him, military officials always 582 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: the number of actual white nationalists and the ranks are small, 583 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 1: and because of that, because there's such a small slice 584 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 1: of the demographic, they're not really a priority. And Carter's 585 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: objection is this. He says, okay, five, maybe the number 586 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: is small, but it's like saying it's a small dose 587 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: of poison. He says, you know, they're like a drop 588 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: of cyanide in your drink. They're not the majority of 589 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: the liquid, but they can still do a lot of damage. 590 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: And I think that is a very very good point. 591 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: And I want to emphasize something here, Matt. I think 592 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: you may have mentioned this earlier, but extremism is a 593 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 1: danger in all forms, and there's a reason that we're 594 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: talking primarily about white nationalist groups today. They received the 595 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: most attention. Uh, they've been linked to the more the 596 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: highest number of attempted or successfully carried out terrorist attacks 597 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: domestically in the u US like at in this genre 598 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: of terrorism and extremism. But other supremacist groups exist, They exist, 599 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: and they they have used some of the same strategies. 600 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 1: You recruit alienated people in the rank and file, You 601 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: recruit isolated veterans who feel like they're they're kind of 602 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: lost after getting out of the service, and use them 603 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: as tools. You radicalize them, and you make them a 604 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: puppet for your agenda, and make the mistake you throw 605 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: them away when you're done. That's that's something that I 606 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: think isn't emphasized enough for the military members who experienced 607 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: this stuff firsthand. White nationalism in particular stands out the 608 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,359 Speaker 1: most frequently. So this is not this is not us 609 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: editorializing or quote unquote picking on a specific genre of 610 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,240 Speaker 1: hate group. This is this is coming from firsthand reports 611 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,800 Speaker 1: from troops, like the troops who responded to that poll 612 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier cited white nationalism as a greater national 613 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: security threat than domestic terrorism with a connection to Islam 614 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:24,240 Speaker 1: or immigration. So obviously the military does not want racist recruits. Uh. 615 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: This is hopefully not not a hot take, but racism 616 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: is a defect. It's a defect of the mind that 617 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 1: would render someone unable to serve to the fullest extent 618 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,720 Speaker 1: of their physical fitness and their mental ability. So obviously 619 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: the military doesn't want that. However, it doesn't have a solid, 620 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 1: full proof system for screening those folks out in the 621 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: first place. Recruits go through a criminal background check when 622 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: the list, of course, but this only detects like we 623 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: said extremist membership if they've been charged with a crime 624 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 1: relating to those kind of beliefs. And the vetting system 625 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: still doesn't really address social media, and social media is 626 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: where a huge deal of modern radicalization and hate group 627 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: recruitment occurs. You know what I mean. There's a Gala 628 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: fan Attics exists online. Uh, they don't have a physical clubhouse. 629 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: And again I'm not calling the zat Galiphon Attics hate group. Uh. 630 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 1: I think they do very good work. And I'm I'm 631 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: a big fan of Gallaphan Colin, so I hope to 632 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,760 Speaker 1: see everybody there next year. I often do rituals reading 633 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:42,320 Speaker 1: from the Gallaphon Necronomicon. Yes, yeah, it's it's it's it's pretty. 634 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,919 Speaker 1: It's pretty comprehensive book you know of dare we say 635 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: a tomb sir a grim wi a smirk wa anyway, gosh, 636 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: So this Uh, this means that the government has a 637 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: lot to do. It's got a lot of work ahead 638 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: of it in terms of how to address this. There 639 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: are multiple studies by multiple government entities and nonprofit institutions 640 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: exploring this issue. The findings are subject of ongoing debate, 641 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: and rightly so because the reality is that people know 642 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 1: there is a conspiracy here, but there's no full proof 643 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 1: way yet to stop this infiltration, which is what it 644 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,359 Speaker 1: is in some cases. And there's no full proof way 645 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: to prevent individuals with high level military training from you know, 646 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: leaving the service and then going on to train members 647 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: of your local hate group. Like, how would you how 648 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: would you even begin to legislate that? Right? Tell somebody, look, 649 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,919 Speaker 1: I know that you have learned all these things. Now 650 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: I have to write a laws somehow. That's that restricts 651 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 1: at every moment in your life, your ability to use 652 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: that experience or teach those things. You know what I mean. 653 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,879 Speaker 1: It's it's very difficult. Yeah, I mean, I really don't. 654 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: I don't know how you how you fix it. And 655 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: I wonder if the way the way you fix it 656 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 1: is to use pr to make it seem like the 657 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 1: problem is not so bad. But I guess that would 658 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: mean you're not actually fixing it, You're just making it 659 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: look as though it's not such a problem. I don't know. 660 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: That's that's weird, man. And it's strange because you know, 661 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 1: we have we have a lot of veterans who are 662 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 1: fellow listeners. We have a lot of family members and 663 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: friends who have been or are currently serving in the military. 664 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: And in the course of my research for this I 665 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 1: I talked to some folks just off the record, you know, 666 00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: give me your take what's going on. And the responses 667 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,879 Speaker 1: I got, you know, said that this is a very 668 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: real thing. Uh. One of the uh I'm laughing about 669 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: serious subject because one of the responses I got UH 670 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,839 Speaker 1: from person I won't identify it was just hilarious. They 671 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: were like, I hate those people. They're bad at their jobs. 672 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,840 Speaker 1: I said, well, that's the number the number one problem 673 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,240 Speaker 1: you have, and and this person said, well, look, yeah, okay, 674 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: their beliefs are terrible, but also their beliefs are are 675 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,840 Speaker 1: a symptom of the fact that they're not intelligent and 676 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,359 Speaker 1: they're bad at their jobs. And them being bad at 677 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: their jobs is what really annoys me on a day 678 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: to day basis. It's just to your point earlier been 679 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 1: at the very top of the show. It kind of 680 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,320 Speaker 1: points to a certain lack of critical thinking abilities and 681 00:46:54,440 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 1: this sort of need to oversimplify problems and hang them 682 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,880 Speaker 1: on a particular group when clearly it's a much larger 683 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 1: issue than that, and it's just such a leap of 684 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: logic that these folks are able to do that. It 685 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 1: really just kind of makes me think they're not particularly bright. 686 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,800 Speaker 1: I'm that's about the shape of it there. Yeah, And 687 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm I'm tempted. It's not good at their jobs, I guess. 688 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: And I'm you know, I'm I'm tempted to agree. Racism 689 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 1: is learned. It's something that can be unlearned. Uh, And 690 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: it's something that people have to have to work through. 691 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:38,279 Speaker 1: The The issue here is the infiltration in one of 692 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:45,000 Speaker 1: the most in the most powerful military force on the planet. 693 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? This is this is dangerous 694 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: when we think that the most powerful military in the 695 00:47:54,160 --> 00:48:01,520 Speaker 1: world maybe unwittingly training the people who want to destroy 696 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: the country this military serves, you know what I mean, 697 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,920 Speaker 1: Like the call is coming from inside the house, as 698 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,440 Speaker 1: they say in horror stories, and it's j Ed Gohova 699 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 1: m hm. And he didn't help things. And imagine, you know, 700 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,600 Speaker 1: there's so many brilliant people in the military. There's so 701 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,160 Speaker 1: many people who joined the services because it represented an 702 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: opportunity that would not have otherwise been available, right, and 703 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 1: these people are doing incredibly important work and stuff like 704 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: this extremist groups and infiltration. This kind of stuff, Uh, 705 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,480 Speaker 1: you should be offensive to every member of the military. 706 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,879 Speaker 1: So as we reached the conclusion here, we really want 707 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,440 Speaker 1: to know your experience, especially if you've been an active 708 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 1: military duty in in any branch. We just want to 709 00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,839 Speaker 1: hear what you've what you've seen while you were there, 710 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,279 Speaker 1: and what you think about this whole problem, and of 711 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: course thank you for your service so much. I mean, 712 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,759 Speaker 1: I hope none of this came off as us like 713 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,600 Speaker 1: ragging on the military. I mean, it's obviously an important 714 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,640 Speaker 1: and valuable institution, and like many important and valuable institutions, 715 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 1: there are inherent problems sometimes. But it doesn't you know, 716 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you know that the whole idea of bad apples, 717 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 1: you know, that's what we're talking about here. It's such 718 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,319 Speaker 1: a ridiculous term as what is it Chris Rock talking 719 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: about bad apples? Uh in the police force, like we 720 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: or we call them bad apples if they're pilots. You know, 721 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,040 Speaker 1: there's a couple of bad apples crashing planes all the time. 722 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 1: You know. It's an interesting way looking at it, but 723 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:46,320 Speaker 1: absolutely very much value. Um are military members, and we 724 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,120 Speaker 1: particularly want to hear from you because we know there 725 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,759 Speaker 1: are folks that are in this, that are seeing this firsthand, 726 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,400 Speaker 1: and let us know what that's like and how it 727 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,640 Speaker 1: affects you, how it affects day to day operations. Isn't 728 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,040 Speaker 1: something you have to tiptoe around? Is it? In leadership? 729 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 1: Let us know. You can find us on Facebook and 730 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: Twitter where we are conspiracy stuff. On Instagram we are 731 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,879 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff show. If you don't want to do those things, 732 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,799 Speaker 1: we have a number you can call what use your 733 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,319 Speaker 1: phone as a phone crazy. Our number is one eight 734 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 1: three three st d w y t K. Leave us 735 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,600 Speaker 1: a message, tell us, tell us your experience, tell us 736 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,120 Speaker 1: about an episode you'd like to see us cover, or 737 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,839 Speaker 1: anything else, but especially let us know if you're okay 738 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,000 Speaker 1: with us using your name. If the message gets played 739 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,359 Speaker 1: on air and one of our listener Maile episodes, hold 740 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 1: your horses. You might be saying a phone call in 741 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,720 Speaker 1: perish the thought and embarrass the thought of social media 742 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: as well. If you are having those thoughts race through 743 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,279 Speaker 1: the twisted halls of your mind and bounce around and 744 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: your subconscious and you have something to say, but you 745 00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,719 Speaker 1: need an easier way to say it to us, We 746 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,880 Speaker 1: have good news for you. We have an old fashioned 747 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,200 Speaker 1: email address. You can reach us anytime, wherever you are, 748 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: whomever you are. All you have to do is drop 749 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,919 Speaker 1: us a line where we are conspiracy at i heart 750 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:33,960 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know 751 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,239 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 752 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,479 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart radio app, 753 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.