1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our returning 4 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: super producer, Max the Tattered mad Man Williams. 5 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 2: Welcome Mischief, Welcome to Well. 6 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 3: I mean we were chatting and stuff. I mean surprised 7 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 3: to everyone you know we are. We are actually real 8 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 3: life friends. The three of us. 9 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: I was Canada, the four of us, but uh, Vancouver. 10 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 3: There was a Canada was Canada, right, Yeah, I was 11 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 3: in Portland and I was in Canada. 12 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 4: Based in Canada. 13 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's basically funny thing Portland, Oregon. It's the only 14 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 3: place in this world where you say Vancouver and they 15 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 3: think of a different place than Vancouver. 16 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: Exactly what it's like. 17 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 3: There's like a suburb basically of it. There's a city 18 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: cross the river in Washington called Vancouver. But it was great. 19 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 5: It was actually kind of hot. But the thing about 20 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 5: it is hot coover by about what they call it. 21 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 5: They call it hot Couver. No call it that hot 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 5: Coouver day. 23 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: It starts schooling off and it's like, wow, okay. 24 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 3: This is different. This is Atlanta where it's like eighty 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 3: plus degree that. 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 4: Like Midnight's bewest interesting story, maybe not interesting but appropriate. 27 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 4: My kid and their mom are leaving for Portland today, 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 4: so I might hit you up offline for some res. 29 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's a great uh. I think it's still around. 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 3: Pinball Museum is what it's called, but it's basically arcade. 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: It's like it's like twenty dollars play all day. But yeah, 32 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 3: as you mentioned, I had, I got two tattoos done, 33 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 3: my first two, and of course I'm already playing the third, fourth, fifth, 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 3: and sixth already. 35 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: The same brother, I'm getting inky, I've got the bug. 36 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 3: It's a lot of fout the bug too. But uh 37 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 3: no I mentioned this offline. But when I was talking 38 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: to Ben earlier today I mentioned him. He was just 39 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 3: said he was going to be around, you know, some 40 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: more French them things I said, watch up for. The 41 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: mimes are like you know, yeah, but h have to 42 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 3: break them first, and once you break them, you can 43 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 3: actually do real damage. 44 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 4: Actually, their attacks are not that hard to dodge once 45 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 4: you get the hang of them, because they only do 46 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 4: like I think too. Sorry, we're talking about Claire Scarrett, 47 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 4: not actual French mimes. 48 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: But they're scary too. 49 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: Expedition thirty three and uh, speaking of the opposite of mimes, 50 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: this is an audio podcast, so we'll tell you who 51 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: we are. I am Ben Bullen. You have heard a 52 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: returning super producer, mister Max Williams, and our ever present, 53 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: ever awesome co host, one and only, mister Nole Brown. 54 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 2: I'm nothing if not ever present. Thank you, Ben. I 55 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: appreciate that. 56 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,839 Speaker 1: It's good you try to figure out how to say 57 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: ever present. 58 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 59 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: Well, English it's a funny language. It's something. This is 60 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: a weird segue. Nol. English is one of those languages 61 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: that is absolutely riddled with legacy words and syntax, even 62 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: when they don't make the most sense. And we could 63 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: argue in part two of First Ladies, Who Weren't that 64 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: the position of first lady quote unquote however described is 65 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: itself kind of like a legacy thing of monarchy. It 66 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: is an official position, but it's it's a thing that 67 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: always assumes the president of the United States will have 68 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: something like a spouse, and as our research associate Jeff 69 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: factor G showed us in our first episode here, that's 70 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: not always the case. Sometimes history has put some square 71 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: pegs into the round hole of tradition. That's how it's 72 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: dirty going on, I know for sure. 73 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 4: And also, I mean, I just think to find the 74 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 4: idea of the president's being the first anything is fascinating 75 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 4: because it sort of implies he's number one, he's the 76 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 4: best one we got, and everything associated with him is 77 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 4: also the first whatever that thing. Remember the movie First Kid, Yes, 78 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 4: like a Nickelodeon type kid's movie from the nineties. 79 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 2: It wasn't Nickelodeon, but it was of that ilk. That's right. 80 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 4: But today we are indeed doing continuation of the first 81 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 4: part of the First Ladies who Weren't Wives. This part 82 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 4: includes the bachelors, the reluctant wives who passed on their duties, 83 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 4: and much much more. Jeff points out at the top, 84 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 4: and we'd like to join him in addressing that this 85 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 4: episode contains some discussion of some arguable perspectives of the 86 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 4: first gay president as well as the first gay first Lady. 87 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 4: I think that one is a little more substantiated the 88 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 4: first Lady one. 89 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let's let's dive into this. That's that's an 90 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: excellent note for us to begin with. And folks, let's 91 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: also note this may be a two part series two 92 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: Part Part two. Yeah, yeah, just like when we did 93 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: idiomatic for the People or historical flex as, I think, 94 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: all right, let's start with let's get to the chicken 95 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: right away. Let's start with the one that is going 96 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: to be interesting to a lot of history buffs in 97 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: the audience, especially fellow presidential history buffs like ourselves. The 98 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: lifelong Yeah, the lifelong presidential bachelor and his first lady. 99 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: All right, when, Yeah, this one is as much about 100 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: the popularity of Harriet Lane, who will meet in a moment, 101 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: as much as it is about the fact that she 102 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: was only the first lady because she was not the 103 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: spouse of President James Buchanan, but she was the niece 104 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: of Buchanan and historians, just to get the headline out here, folks, 105 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: historians often will cite James Buchanan as quote, the nation's 106 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: most likely first gay president. 107 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 108 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 4: That term bachelor that you wish washed around in these 109 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 4: days was often used as a pejorative for being gay, 110 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 4: not in a positive way. It was not something that 111 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 4: we've talked about, but if you threw around the term 112 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 4: lifelong bachelor, that often had a little little bit of 113 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 4: stink on it, depending on who was throwing it around, 114 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 4: and Ben remind me, I believe in our last episode 115 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 4: on first Ladies who Weren't Wives, we also had a 116 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 4: player who was a relative who got that designation after 117 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 4: the fact. 118 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about a player Old Andrew, two first Ladies Jackson. 119 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: There's a bit of a sad story there because, as 120 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: we recall from our first episode, Andrew Jackson had to 121 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: take his DSA on as the first lady because his 122 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: actual facts, as Lauren would say, a spouse passed away. 123 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: So there was already a niece who became a first 124 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: lady in terms of practice. 125 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 4: Very similar story here, although we also have potential for 126 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 4: what might be considered the first man, but there was 127 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 4: just no space culturally for that to even be part 128 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 4: of the. 129 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: Conversation for a first gentleman. 130 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: Indeed, I like that. 131 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 4: I definitely think it's important to talk about this historical anomaly, 132 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 4: even though it was something that we mentioned before, very 133 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 4: rare for this sort of passing of the torch to 134 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 4: a relative to become the nature of a first lady. 135 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 4: So this puts it into a much more interesting and 136 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 4: revelatory perspective than their wife died or what have you. 137 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 4: So let's get right into it. 138 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, folks, travel back with us. It's the 139 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: beginning of eighteen forty four. There's a guy named James Buchanan. 140 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: He's a real up and comer in the Hall's political power, 141 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: but his presidential aspirations are about to go a raw. 142 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: At this point, he has had a bit of a 143 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: brew haha with the Washington Daily Globe. It stirred his 144 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: political rivals into a big, bubbling gumbo of hater tude. Yeah, 145 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: there's Aaron Venable Brown. 146 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:23,239 Speaker 2: Brown. 147 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 4: Isn't that a Isn't that an adjective like to describe 148 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 4: someone being like prestigious or like of of note venerable 149 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 4: venerable moving on one of my h one of my 150 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 4: many historical etymological flubs. 151 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: But I it. 152 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm so happy that we began this episode by talking 153 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: about how cartoonish the English language is. And perhaps because 154 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: I have some familial roots in the hinterlands of Tennessee, 155 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: Venable doesn't sound like two of a name for me. 156 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, this guy, Aaron, he is from Tennessee. He's 157 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: especially pissed off. He's soup duped enraged, and he writes 158 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: a fake confidential letter to the future. First lady Sarah 159 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: Polk and in this quote unquote confidential letter, our but 160 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: e venable savages Buchanan and his better half, and he 161 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: says the following, mister Buchara looks gloomy and dissatisfied, and 162 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: so did his better half until a little private flattery 163 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: in a certain newspaper puff which you doubtless noticed, excited 164 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: hope that by getting a divorce she got set up 165 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: again in the world to some tolerable advantage. Read that 166 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: as gay. 167 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 4: I mean, right, a little bit, isn't there some like 168 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 4: subtweety shade being thrown here? 169 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: Exactly exactly nailed it, because the problem is that James 170 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: Buchanan up to now, even an to twenty twenty five, 171 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: he is the niians only bachelor president. The problem is 172 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: that James Buchanan at this point is our nition's only 173 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: bachelor president. So there was no spouse, there was no 174 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: female spouse to call his better half. And Brown's letter 175 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: heavily implies there was a man who fit the bill. 176 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 2: It's true. 177 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 4: Google James Buchanan and you're inevitably going to discover this 178 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 4: assertion that American history declared him to be the first 179 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 4: gay president. And it doesn't take a whole lot of 180 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 4: digging to discover that the popular understanding of Buchanan as 181 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 4: our nation's first gay president comes from his very close 182 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 4: personal relationship, not with God, you may have had that 183 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 4: as well, but with one man in particular, one. 184 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 6: William Rufus, William Rufus Devain King, the Honorable Venerable William 185 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 6: Rufus Devaine, King of Alabama. The premise raises a lot 186 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 6: of questions what was the real nature of their relationship? 187 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 6: And people love a salacious raising of questions, so I'm 188 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 6: sure that Froth Fear describing was indeed quite bubbling. 189 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and I love that. I love that frauth 190 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: analogy there, because we also have to remember that the 191 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: three of us, your faithful correspondents here, are of a 192 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: generation where when we were growing up, there would be 193 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 1: lifelong same sex partners who described each other as roommates, 194 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: which is sad that society forced them into that kind 195 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: of semi closet space. Bu Can and King Rufus Deveyn 196 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: King shared another essential quality in addition to being on 197 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: the same page politically, they were both bachelors, as you said, 198 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: lifelong bachelors, never having married. Buchanan attended Dickinson College and 199 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: he studied law in Lancaster. His practice did really well 200 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: in eighteen nineteen. In fact, if you walked around the 201 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,479 Speaker 1: town of Lancaster, you would see that he was considered 202 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: the city's most eligible bachelor. Everybody thought, this guy is 203 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: an up and comer. He's got the money, he's got 204 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: the bazazz, the panache. Who wouldn't want to marry Buchanon. 205 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: Well, that's right. 206 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 4: At a certain age and a certain walk of life, 207 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 4: eligible gets attached to bachelor and it's a positive thing. 208 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 4: It means you're a real pick, You're a real catch, right, 209 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 4: You're a real smoke show, a real dime. As the 210 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 4: kids say, do they say that or do they say 211 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 4: that in the fifties they may. 212 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: It reminds me that old Jane Austen quote from Pride 213 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: and Prejudice, which is, sorry, folks, not my favorite book, 214 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: but there's one quote that gets thrown around a lot. 215 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: Jane Austen wrote, it is a truth universally acknowledged that 216 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: a single man in possession of a good fortune must 217 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: be in want of a wife. 218 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit gold digger at gold degree. And 219 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 2: there's being. 220 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 6: There's some a little bit of subtweety stank on that 221 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 6: one too, if you ask me, they were. 222 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: All about subtweety steak. And I'm going to write down 223 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: that phrase because I appreciate it. 224 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 6: Uh. 225 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: Buchanan does ultimately become engaged to a young woman named 226 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: Anne Colvin. She is of a similar social echelon. She's 227 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: twenty three years old. Her dad is a wealthy tycoon 228 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: who made his money in iron and I love that 229 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: this is the period of history where you can say 230 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: someone made their money in just a noun. 231 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 6: Oh, yeah, for sure, the railroads for example, or just railroads, 232 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 6: if we're just. 233 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:32,599 Speaker 2: Going with the nown with it. 234 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 4: I made my money and horse, I made my money 235 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 4: in beach. Yeah, like that's what Ken did of the 236 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 4: Barbie universe. It's also a time where you could say 237 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 4: that someone died from hysterical convulsions. 238 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 2: Right right, wandering wand. 239 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: Which, unfortunately good yeah, happens with Anne Coleman, who's only 240 00:13:52,280 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: briefly in the story. The official narrative is that Buchanan 241 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: was always working and for some reason this caused him 242 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: to neglect his betrothed, which caused Anne Coleman herself to 243 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: break off the engagement. So she broke up with him, 244 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: not the opposite, and immediately died of heartbreak, and immediately, 245 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: like shortly thereafter died of to your note, what her 246 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: doctor at the time said were hysterical convulsions. And the 247 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: rumor mill of Lancaster goes absolutely nuts like it's their 248 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: own TMZ. On a local level, people are whispering and 249 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: saying that Anne Coleman committed suicidal Well, it. 250 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 4: Would seem like Buchanan perhaps harbored a little personal guilt 251 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 4: around this, as he did say he entered politics to 252 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 4: distract himself from his great grief. 253 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: He may well have loved this woman. 254 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, and look, what's the word platonic 255 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 4: love is very very re and there maybe even could 256 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 4: have You know, we also know that in these days, 257 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 4: and honestly well into the future, maybe even into the present, 258 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 4: there would be these arrangements where the woman would very 259 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 4: much know that the man that she was with was 260 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 4: not into women, but they will continue as this facade 261 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 4: with an understanding between. 262 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: Them or vice versa one hundred percent. 263 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not gonna lie, not to get too personal, 264 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 4: pretty much, that was the deal with my parents it's 265 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 4: in the opera world. Back in New York City in 266 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 4: the eighties and nineties, it was not the easiest thing 267 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 4: to be an out gay man, and there were a 268 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 4: lot of these marriages. 269 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: Of convenience, right, and sometimes the street name or idiom 270 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: you may have heard, folks is the so called lavender 271 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: marriage or the beard right right or beard. Sometimes these 272 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: could occur because both partners needed cover and were not 273 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: sexually into each other. But we're close friends. Uh bu 274 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: can'd in, as he said, throws himself to work as 275 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: a result of this great grief and while he is 276 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: in Washington when he has entered politics for the politics 277 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: he and William Rufus Devane King lived together in a 278 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: communal boarding house kind of sometimes called a mess, similar 279 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: to the military term for a cafeteria. Okay, yeah, and 280 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: this was not just a them thing, to be clear. 281 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: At first, their boarding house had other Congress members in it, 282 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: and most of these were also unmarried men, and a 283 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: lot of them were kind of on the younger side 284 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: for the time, and this gave their communal home a 285 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: street name, the bachelor's Mess, like this is where the 286 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: single guys hang out. And there was not any at 287 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:56,239 Speaker 1: this point, there was not any snarky, like subversive subtext 288 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: of all these people being gay or something. It was 289 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: just these guys are unmarried. So of course if you're 290 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: a congressman and you're not hitched, you live here. 291 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 2: It makes sense, I guess, yeah. And bastards do be messy. 292 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 2: It's true. 293 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 4: Over time, as other members of the group lost their 294 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 4: seats in Congress, the population of the mess dwindled from 295 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 4: four to three, and then there were two Buchanan and 296 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 4: King Washington. Society started to, you know, take notice and 297 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 4: look a bit of scance at this arrangement. 298 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And they were so vicious in these 299 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: social spheres. This is peak cattiness. Right at the galas, 300 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: at the balls and the fundraisers. People started calling him 301 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: mister Buchanan and his wife. And they would call these people, 302 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: they would call this future President and rufus King, things 303 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: like aunt fancy and aunt Nancy. 304 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 2: My aunt fancy. That's an expression. 305 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 4: Maybe years later, Julia Gardner Tyler, he was the much 306 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 4: younger wife of John Tyler, President, remembered at them as 307 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 4: the Siamese twins, which I guess you could call maybe 308 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 4: a little bit less of an insulting nickname, just. 309 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 6: The fact that they were close. They were buds. Chang 310 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 6: and Aang Bunker were the famous conjoined twins who were 311 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 6: popular at the time. We've talked about on this podcast. 312 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 6: We have we have Affair. 313 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 3: Just to jump in here real quick, because we brought 314 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 3: up John Tyler's second wife. I want to just call 315 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: back to the John Tyler has a living grandson, which 316 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 3: I haven't checked recently, see if the guy's still around. 317 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 3: But I'm trying to remember how many children he had 318 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 3: with the second wife. 319 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: He was a jack rabbit. 320 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, he had fifteen I think total, and I think 321 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 3: he had at least five, maybe seven with the second wife. 322 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 2: He was in his fifties by this point. 323 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not as not as virile as Mick Jagger 324 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: or Robert de Niro. 325 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 3: Today, but or John the baby maker right right, curtainly 326 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 3: still getting something, still getting. 327 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: His feather mattress Calisthenics on. Well, yeah, so this is 328 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: fascinating because you know, you could say these guys were 329 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: just very close, lifelong friends. There are a lot of 330 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: people who have close friendships throughout their lives. They cherished 331 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: their rapport and their friendship and members of their immediate families, 332 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: importantly for the time seem to treat them the same, 333 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: you know, like this is my brother from another mother, 334 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: or you know, Buchanan, you may as well be my son. Uh, 335 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: it's right right. They had secret handshakes, I'm sure, and. 336 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 2: I love that. I love a secret handshake. Can we do. 337 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: All? 338 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: Right? 339 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: So in Weedland, which is the name for Buchanan's country 340 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: estate still near Lancaster, a heavy stoners, if you walk 341 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: into his estate at this point, you'll see not just 342 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: a portrait of William Rufus King, but you'll also see 343 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: a portrait of King's niece Catherine Margaret Ellis. And after 344 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: you can't and dies spoiler. In eighteen sixty eight, his 345 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: niece that we mentioned at the top, Harriet Lane Johnston. 346 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: She corresponds with this niece Ellis about how to get 347 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: how to get the correspondence of these men from the 348 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: king home in Alabama. 349 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 4: And I started it was Wheatland, not Weedland, which is 350 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 4: over my brain immediately correct. 351 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: I thought Wheatland was I thought that was some sort 352 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: of strain of cannabis. 353 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 4: Or it could be like there's a dispensary somewhere in 354 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 4: the country called Weedland. Harriet lost both of her parents 355 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 4: by the age of eleven, and Jane's brother, who was 356 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 4: a senator at the time, James Buchanan of Pennsylvania, became 357 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 4: Harriet's legal guardian. 358 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're getting a lot of this from some 359 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: great Smithsonian articles. Yeah, one by Thomas Balserski, The one 360 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five year History of Speculating about President 361 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: James Buchanan's Bachelorhood. Yeah, I love that word. Setting up 362 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: Harriet Lane's origin story. So how did she become the 363 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: first Lady for all intents and practices of the Buchanan administration. 364 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: It's because of this interaction between King and Buchanan. Like 365 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: you were setting up here, She's got a legal guardian 366 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: due to childhood tragedy. She goes to a boarding school, 367 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: first in Pennsylvania, then later she moves to Virginia and DC. 368 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: She lives with her uncle at his Wheatland estate in Lancaster, 369 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: and she travels abroad with Buchanan while he is serving 370 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: as Minister to Great Britain. This guy, this guy's a 371 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: little bit older when he moves into the White House 372 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: and a sense to the presidency. He's in his sixties 373 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty seven, and at this point, again he's 374 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: still a lifelong bachelor. Outside of that what engagement, He 375 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: is not only never married, but he has also had 376 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: no known romantic interaction. 377 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 2: Trade with women. Yes, no, no, lady, no. 378 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 6: Paragars, no things, flings, dalliance's perhaps no none of that. 379 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 6: So la relationship that's there, you go, situationships even so, yeah, 380 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 6: so Lane, is that what you said, Ben, I'm sorry, situationship. 381 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 6: We were on the same page. So Laine, at this point, 382 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 6: still quite a young woman, joins him in his role 383 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 6: at the White House. 384 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 4: She's been his kind of constant companion at this point 385 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 4: in eighteen fifty seven. 386 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 2: She brings this youthful vigor to the White House. 387 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 4: Is a really great entertainer, which, as we know, is 388 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 4: a role that often falls to first ladies, and she 389 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 4: really becomes kind of a people's princess type figure, you know, 390 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 4: like very princess Diana. Yep, she's a celebrity for intents 391 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 4: and purposes, christening ships, signing autographs, doing charity banquets and fundraisers. 392 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: She's a fashion plate. She's doing Kardashian level celebrity. 393 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 6: Endorsement and send all the latest trends by the designers 394 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:28,959 Speaker 6: of notes and things like that. 395 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: She would have had millions of followers if Instagram were 396 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: a thing at this point. She also oversees the refurbishment 397 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: of the famous Blue Room at the White House. She 398 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: is the lead hostess on several important visits from Everything 399 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: you could imagine, Big Deal European Folks VIPs from Japan 400 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: in May of eighteen sixty. She also coordinates a visit 401 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: from Albert Edward, the Prince of Wales and look before 402 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: Jackie odasas Kennedy, few first ladies captured public imagination like 403 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: Harriet Lane. 404 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, and Jackie OH loomed so large that I personally 405 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 4: did not know about the legacy of Harriet Lane, because 406 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 4: we really do think of Jackie O as being that quintessential, 407 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 4: you know, first lady's first lady kind of And I 408 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 4: think that's probably in no small part due to this 409 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 4: speculation about the president's bachelorhood. Did not seem to stick 410 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 4: in the mind of history in the same way that 411 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 4: Jackie O did. But she was very much on the 412 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 4: same playing field that Jackie O would occupy, capturing the 413 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 4: public imagination, et cetera. 414 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, the important distinction here is that prior to Harriet Lane, 415 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: and maybe let's bracket Martha Washington between Martha Washington and 416 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: Harriet Lane. First ladies were very well known in the 417 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: up her crust of society, like in the DC Northeast area. 418 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: But if you ask someone in Oklahoma or California, they 419 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't know much about this person. They might not 420 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: care as much. This changed with Harriet Lane because it 421 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: became cool to follow her, so women across the country 422 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: would copy the dresses and the gowns she was wearing, 423 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: like her inauguration gown. 424 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 2: People. 425 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, people named their kids after her. 426 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 6: Dude. 427 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: They started writing her into popular songs and. 428 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 2: She was beloved. She was beloved. 429 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very Camelot Jackie O's stuff. And during this 430 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: context of history, the United States is teetering ever closer 431 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: to the brink of civil war. And this they called 432 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: her the Democratic Queen because the US has always eternally 433 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: struggled with the difference between meritocracy, democracy, and monarchy. 434 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 2: Right for sure. 435 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 4: Of course, she also was very active in philanthropic pursuits, 436 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 4: and she even took on the cause of Native peoples 437 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 4: of First First Nation peoples in improving conditions on these reservations, 438 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 4: which we know were not great. 439 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I would say, based on the conversations I've 440 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: had with another show of ours wrongful conviction, I would 441 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: say those terrible conditions also continue in the modern day 442 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: with indigenous American populations. But she was trying to trying 443 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: to improve conditions, making a good faith effort. Her uncle 444 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: leaves office in eighteen sixty one, but she's such a 445 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: successful social personality that she continues her philanthropy. She helps 446 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: found a children's clinic at the Johns Hopkins Hospital. So 447 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: thank you, miss Lane. That's fantastic. And while we're extolling 448 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: her virtues, let us also mention that she was a 449 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: huge fan of the arts, and she acquired so many 450 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: pieces of pretty notable work, and she had always plan 451 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: not to hoard it or give it to her family 452 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: when she finally passed, but she always wanted it to 453 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: be for the American people and patron Yeah, and when 454 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: she passes away in nineteen oh three, she gives it 455 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: all to uncle Sam And the Smithsonian is so happy 456 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: about this that one of their officials calls her the 457 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: first Lady of the National Collection of Fine Arts. 458 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 6: You got to start somewhere. She really kicked off that 459 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 6: collection in a very big way. 460 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 2: It's true. 461 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 4: And as we mentioned, she was hugely generous to Johns Hopkins, 462 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 4: the famous hospital in Baltimore, leaving an endowment to children's clinics, 463 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 4: and it became an incredibly important pediatric facility when that 464 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 4: was as much of a thing as it is today 465 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 4: in terms of like specialty facilities designated for children's healthcare 466 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 4: and for children dealing with very difficult conditions. 467 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 6: M hm. 468 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: And before we move on, Max, you hit us up 469 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: in the chat as a fellow presidential history buff. We're 470 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: interested to see what tangent you wanted to bring us 471 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: with Buchanan. 472 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just, you know, it's two things tangentially related 473 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 3: to the story. Well, because one thing is there's a 474 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 3: lot of the more clickbait you want about the first 475 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 3: gay presidents. People have this theory that Lincoln was in 476 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 3: fact gay, and a lot of times what you'll read 477 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 3: when stuff like that people like, oh, no, Buchanan was gay, 478 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 3: and obviously there's no proof on all this. I think, 479 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 3: you know, not to get too woke on my soapbox, 480 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 3: where I think it's more just like the lines are 481 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 3: more blurred than people may want to accept they are. 482 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 3: But I think the big reason why everyone likes to 483 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 3: talk about Buchanan in this way is because it's better 484 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 3: than talking about Buchanan in any other way, because he 485 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 3: is widely considered the first president of good dimension. 486 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: He's one of the worst three. He's one of the 487 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: worst three. 488 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 2: How is he such an f up? 489 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 3: She watched the country start the Civil War and did nothing? 490 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 3: He is amongst it's Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, and Peer 491 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 3: and Peers are considered the three works were finding. Peers 492 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 3: is right before him, and Johnson is two after him, 493 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 3: so it goes Lincoln in Johnson. So it's three guys 494 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 3: in a row who just royally phipped up the Civil 495 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 3: War type stuff. If they would have done just even 496 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 3: a competent job, they would have gone a lot better. 497 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 3: And well, I mean Pierce was also fanning the flames. 498 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 3: He was a proud segregation right. 499 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: I would say if they had been not even competent 500 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: but less incompetent. 501 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: History, John Tyler is. 502 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: A completely different direction. 503 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 7: Loudly President, prey, excellent, first lady exactly. Yeah, you can't 504 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 7: win them all, it says America. But also to the 505 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 7: point about uh sexual at the time, yes, more fluid 506 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 7: in terms of how things were encountered in day to 507 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 7: day life on the ground. But the Abraham Lincoln rumors 508 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 7: in apocrypha come from some of his direct correspondents, but 509 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 7: also come from his younger days when he was bunking 510 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 7: in the same bed with another dude. I do want 511 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 7: to point out that at that time, when he was 512 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 7: living in the at that time in the areas that 513 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 7: he was living in, that was not uncommon, you know, 514 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 7: I mean, not everybody was able to pay for two 515 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 7: separate hotel rooms at the alla day in and folks, 516 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 7: with this, we are actually going to make an audible 517 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 7: which you won't hear the you won't hear this audible 518 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 7: because it's off Mike. We have conferred and this is 519 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 7: going to be part one of First Ladies Who Weren't 520 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 7: Wives Part two because there's just so much on Buchanan. 521 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 7: But we'll be back later this week with more first 522 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 7: Ladies who were first Ladies? 523 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 2: Yep, wives were wives. 524 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 4: Always a pleasure working with our buddy Jeff the g 525 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 4: Man Bartlett. Now what was it, G sauce factor, G money, 526 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 4: G unit, I like sauce though, Factor G remember G 527 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 4: Love and special sauce. 528 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 2: I think that's what my brain was portmanteauing it into. 529 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, so big thanks to our research associate, Jeff 530 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: Factor G. Bartlett, Big big thanks to our returning super producer, 531 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: Max Williams. 532 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: Long Mickey Rang, Welcome back, buddy, and I. 533 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: Am overdue to check in with our composer Alex Williams. 534 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: I haven't spoken with him in a minute, but. 535 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 2: Max, Alex is doing well. He's doing great. 536 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 3: He is, you know, on the road doing the things 537 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 3: that Alex loves to do, hiking, yoga, having opinions about things. 538 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 3: Older brother that's a year and a half eight days. 539 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 2: Older than me. Okay, good dude, love the both of these. 540 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 6: Got to check in with with our buddy Alex as well, 541 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 6: who composed this bang and bop. 542 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: I'm very overdue actually to talk with Alex about some 543 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: screenplay stuff. So with Max, extra bonus points to you, 544 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: my friend, for being diplomatic. I know it could be 545 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: difficult with siblings sometimes. 546 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I mean I have a natural propensity 547 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 3: to be passive aggressive, and I did it on air, 548 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 3: and then I immediately started backtracking it because Smith has 549 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 3: not done me any good in my thirty four years 550 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 3: a life. 551 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of cartoonishly passive aggressive. Big thanks to the 552 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: Quister aka Jonathan Strickland. Big thanks as well to aj 553 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: Bahama's Jacobs, Orgey Riverside cham who else, who else? 554 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 4: Oh, of course we've got Christopher Hasiotis and Eve's Jeff 555 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 4: Coates here in spirit and where would we be without 556 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 4: each other? 557 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 2: Ben, Huge thanks to you. This is a fun one. 558 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 2: This was a real romp. 559 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: And to you as well, everybody. Everybody who's feeling generous, 560 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: since we're talking about politics and people who get elected. 561 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: If you feel charitable and you would like to elect, 562 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: to leave us a kind review on your podcast platform 563 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: of choice. We sure appreciate it, and we hope you 564 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: tune in later this week. 565 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 2: Indeed, let's see you next time, folks. 566 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 567 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.