Speaker 1: Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome to our mini pod. You all.
Speaker 2: It's been a very interesting week for us.
Speaker 1: I think some of us are hovering somewhere between grief
Speaker 1: and blind rage after the midterm election results. I don't
Speaker 1: think there were any overwhelming, overwhelming yes in the war.
Speaker 2: But I'm just gonna be honest with y'all.
Speaker 1: I am deepening into the election results right now, and
Speaker 1: my heart and prayers go out to everyone who has
Speaker 1: family members who are being impacted by everything that's going
Speaker 1: on in the Middle East East and has been for
Speaker 1: some time.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: First, I want to start somewhere positive. We didn't do
Speaker 1: this in the mainho y'all. Reverend Doctor Frederick Douglas Haynes
Speaker 1: did win the primary Jasmine Crockett's old seat, and I'm
Speaker 1: starting there because I'm about to hit a quick pivot.
Speaker 2: Linay girl.
Speaker 1: The people who were online saying, and I think we
Speaker 1: have some of those tweets that were online saying like, well,
Speaker 1: at least now there's a real progressive in the seat.
Speaker 1: I just want to tell everyone, for those who don't
Speaker 1: know that Reverend Doctor Frederick Douglas Haynes of Friendship West
Speaker 1: in Dallas also happens to be Jasmin Crocketts pastor and
Speaker 1: one of her closest and dearest advisors. So there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of light between their two positions. In fact,
Speaker 1: they supported each other in these primaries. So I just
Speaker 1: I wanted to start there, And I also want to
Speaker 1: say what has been so frustrating to me the text.
Speaker 2: That I was getting on the.
Speaker 1: Side like well you talk to James, you know, having
Speaker 1: to be very clear about the sisterhood I have with Jasmine.
Speaker 1: I just don't understand why some of what happened occurred. Andrew,
Speaker 1: I thought we left it behind in twenty eighteen, and
Speaker 1: you're a primary race, you know. So I just I
Speaker 1: want to talk about some of this. Linnee, you found
Speaker 1: yourself in the crosshairs. I would love for you to
Speaker 1: explain our audience some of what you experienced being the
Speaker 1: unnamed interviewee who's a very popular viral interviewer. You had
Speaker 1: an interview with the Jasmine and I'd love for you
Speaker 1: to talk about some of what happened.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I had an interview with Jasmine in December
Speaker 4: of last year. Yeah, this was right after a clip
Speaker 4: has started circulating about her. She was given a response
Speaker 4: on the United States relationship with Israel, and the way
Speaker 4: that it.
Speaker 2: Was cut it.
Speaker 4: Engendered a bunch of conversation alone about whether or not
Speaker 4: she was paid by APAK, whether she was a blanket Sionist,
Speaker 4: and so that took up the crux of our conversation,
Speaker 4: and there was one question that I had in particular. First,
Speaker 4: I'll say that I did think that Jasmin had accept
Speaker 4: the APAC money and I was incorrected about that. So
Speaker 4: we cleared up that to just make sure, like people
Speaker 4: understod that she wasn't compromised financially by this organization or
Speaker 4: whatever to be given the answer she was given about
Speaker 4: her thoughts on Israel. But the question that I had
Speaker 4: remaining was, you know, people act like and she has
Speaker 4: said that our relationship with Israel is just going to exist,
Speaker 4: and it's been here for a long time, it's going
Speaker 4: to be here for a long time, and I'm just like,
Speaker 4: you know, racism has been here for a long time, soism,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. So it's sexism, homophobia and all these things,
Speaker 4: and we do not subscribe to maintaining those relationships.
Speaker 2: So what is it about Israel?
Speaker 4: And I could just tell that she could not give
Speaker 4: me a complete answer because she just could not. What
Speaker 4: do you do when to go an official tells you
Speaker 4: what they can tell you, you know. But anyways, it
Speaker 4: got flack when I first put it out, but most
Speaker 4: people were just wishing that she would have just called
Speaker 4: it a genocide. What Israel is doing to gods like
Speaker 4: a genocide.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: The thing is, the clips went viral again the weekend
Speaker 4: right before the primary, and these pages that were posting
Speaker 4: it were pages that are known, particularly on the app threads,
Speaker 4: for being messy, being divisive, and hampering down on black
Speaker 4: women in particular. So when I saw these posts from
Speaker 4: these accounts saying great question from the interviewee, horrible response
Speaker 4: from Jasmine, or a disappointing question from Jasmine Crocket, Oh
Speaker 4: yeah the interviewee, like that was an amazing question. I'm
Speaker 4: not sure why she can't answer it. They were using
Speaker 4: me as this nameless person or whatever to try to
Speaker 4: further dinner grate Jasmine. And it was strange to me
Speaker 4: because it's on an issue that she and Taller Rico
Speaker 4: have had the same stance on throughout the entirety of
Speaker 4: their campaign, but in checking their pages, they had no
Speaker 4: information about tall Rico's position on Israel. So that's a
Speaker 4: lot of backstory to say that I immediately took offense to
Speaker 4: it because as how I read it is that they
Speaker 4: were trying to use me a black face and a
Speaker 4: nameless blackface to try to justify this dog filing on
Speaker 4: Jazzmin right before the primary. So I made some statements
Speaker 4: on my threads, I made a video on my threads,
Speaker 4: and then what the person who was responsible for Jazzmin's
Speaker 4: digital outreach campaign, Elizabeth Booker Squared also sort of came
Speaker 4: to my defense because she had dealt with one account
Speaker 4: in particular Roague DNC we should pull yeah yeah threads
Speaker 4: and so coming to my defense, this person decided it
Speaker 4: was in his best interest to create a racist caricature
Speaker 4: of Elizabeth Barrier can to minstrelsy yeah and M need
Speaker 4: to we should pull it up so much, it was
Speaker 4: so much and I don't even know where you want
Speaker 4: me to go from there, because the thing.
Speaker 1: Do we have that I'm asking Derek now, Derek, I
Speaker 1: flagged him in the chat because we got it got
Speaker 1: buried with all the Clinton testimony and everything else. So
Speaker 1: if we can't pull that, it's the rogue d n
Speaker 1: c uh threads post first, it's just text.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: So we put that image up and the personal it
Speaker 1: is it's a real it's a real, it's a real person.
Speaker 3: Or something.
Speaker 2: No, so let's let's local recognition correct.
Speaker 1: But I think yeah, he was not an image Award winner,
Speaker 1: which is high. Read it to it first, so his
Speaker 1: this is him After he puts this racist caricature up
Speaker 1: of Elizabeth, who also has been a guest co host
Speaker 1: on our program as a family does it says Hey, all,
Speaker 1: I was educated on the history of racist caricatures by
Speaker 1: a mutual and by a mutual and apologize for my
Speaker 1: racist photoshop. Liquefy. This person has been bullying me for months.
Speaker 1: This person, by the way, he talked about as Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Elith and didn't want to reply to her mean d M,
Speaker 1: so I did what I thought was a funny photoshop.
Speaker 1: I apologize and think those who talk to me with
Speaker 1: decency and respect now.
Speaker 3: And sorry girl, please, this is probably didn't bully him.
Speaker 4: Are equal and opposite responses to what people give. Anybody
Speaker 4: else like Elizabeth is definitely a pit bull when she
Speaker 4: needs to but it's always for a good cause, and
Speaker 4: somebody else always starts. Now this it has no decency
Speaker 4: or respect for themselves because as you said, or somebody said,
Speaker 4: they thought to throw into my thread where I asked
Speaker 4: them to stop using my name and my image for
Speaker 4: their massage noir. They said, well, I have an NAACP
Speaker 4: Image Award, So how do I hate black women?
Speaker 3: Hey, exhibit A, exhibit A.
Speaker 2: You have the site and na a CP recognition. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Can I ask, can I ask Lennay just for for
Speaker 3: for listeners and particularly for black men who hear this
Speaker 3: word a lot? What is massage? Massage in no arm?
Speaker 3: What is that? Tell me what you mean in like
Speaker 3: in a in a very very not not I hate
Speaker 3: to say, fifth grade type way, but very.
Speaker 2: Prictical way, kindergarten.
Speaker 4: Please, absolutely so massage noir It can be a little
Speaker 4: bit of a mouthful, but it's a combination. It's a
Speaker 4: compound word of misogyny and noir, as in like film
Speaker 4: and so black and film. So it was coined by
Speaker 4: Moya Bailey, my film and sister actually doctor Moya Bailey
Speaker 4: in two thousand and eight to describe how black women
Speaker 4: were being perceived on film at the intersection of misogyny
Speaker 4: and racism, and so it became sort of like a
Speaker 4: platform to discuss how black women experienced denigration or harm
Speaker 4: or double standards, are unfair critique at the intersection of
Speaker 4: misogyny and racism.
Speaker 3: Clearly it's true truth. Yeah, no, I agree, I understand. No,
Speaker 3: I understand, but I know that it's agree. Sorry, no,
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that that is a that that has
Speaker 3: been a topic of conversation for a very long period
Speaker 3: of time, particularly since twenty twenty. And there are a
Speaker 3: lot of my friends and individuals who are not in
Speaker 3: these spaces, who have these conversations, who simply don't give
Speaker 3: it the credence or value it deserves, simply because we
Speaker 3: don't understand what people are saying. Thanks for mansk, go ahead,
Speaker 3: appreciate it.
Speaker 1: That's oh wow's funny.
Speaker 4: It's funny enough too.
Speaker 3: I make this.
Speaker 4: I make the distinction that it started out as a
Speaker 4: appraisal of what happens on film because Moya was on
Speaker 4: Spilman's campus when Nellie I had to visit, and it
Speaker 4: was right after the tip Drill video, and that was
Speaker 4: the area of feminism. We're black women, We're not having
Speaker 4: the ass shaking, especially like in a man's purview and
Speaker 4: the host slide in the car down. The thing created
Speaker 4: a whole like cluster fun chocolate yes on Spellman's campus.
Speaker 4: And so this is where the theory derived from. But
Speaker 4: it has implications and all other settings.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is the thing that I think is important
Speaker 1: here too because when Rogue DNC tried to throw to
Speaker 1: his black friend the N double a CP, the N
Speaker 1: double a CP responded in kind because two of the
Speaker 1: people involved in uh his hula hoopla it were nominated
Speaker 1: for actual N double a CP Image Awards this year.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Booker Houston Booker squared that she's done on social
Speaker 1: and of course our dear sister linee Vanie for everyone
Speaker 1: who's confused about how to pronounce then it is not
Speaker 1: with her first name. We didn't even do it in
Speaker 1: a second show Andrew you was good. So this is
Speaker 1: what N DOUAACP says. Everyone has the right to share
Speaker 1: their opinions. Well, let me first say what he said first.
Speaker 1: If I hate black women, how come one nominated media
Speaker 1: get it in DOUBLEACP Award for my community this time?
Speaker 3: Yet?
Speaker 1: Let me.
Speaker 2: Let me read it in my voice in his voice.
Speaker 1: If I hate black women, how come one nominated me
Speaker 1: to get it in DOUBLEACP Image Award. I'm sorry n
Speaker 1: DOUBLEACP Award for my community work helping people of color,
Speaker 1: to which the NAACP responded in time. Everyone has the
Speaker 1: right to share their opinions and we fully respect that,
Speaker 1: but let's be clear, the NAACP won't serve as a
Speaker 1: buffer in this debate. Therefore, don't use us as a
Speaker 1: justification for your views, especially when it comes to issues
Speaker 1: that impact black women. We celebrate the voices and experiences
Speaker 1: of black women and believe they deserve to be at
Speaker 1: the forefront of these discussions. Let's keep the conversation authentic
Speaker 1: and respectful, not focused on our org as justification for position.
Speaker 4: And of the eight minutes tirade that I went on
Speaker 4: the internet about this, my favorite line is and see
Speaker 4: this is why the NAAE of me.
Speaker 2: Yes, this.
Speaker 4: Is why the NAACP is never going to be the
Speaker 4: end doua POC because bitch, just like you don't know
Speaker 4: how to act. Yeah, I'm quite sick of people of
Speaker 4: color coming into our spaces and getting the sort of
Speaker 4: affirmation of validation that you that you can be aligned
Speaker 4: with black liberation movements and then turning right back around
Speaker 4: and forgetting all of all of the respect and courtesy
Speaker 4: that you need to have for black people in this
Speaker 4: fight with you. And another thing that I mentioned is
Speaker 4: the American individualism that that praise on these people that
Speaker 4: they fall victim to newts their ability to be real
Speaker 4: allies to us, because they only want to use us
Speaker 4: as stepping stools. And that infuriates me because I feel
Speaker 4: like we're in this moment where liberation ideology is cool,
Speaker 4: it is a thing to tap into. It's free Palestine,
Speaker 4: it's free Congo, it's free Sudan, it's free Haiti. I'm
Speaker 4: sure you don't know anything about what's going on in Haiti, Sudan,
Speaker 4: or Congo, but you like to say those things because
Speaker 4: it sounds cool. But you've skipped your anti racism education.
Speaker 4: You've stripped cleansing yourself of that thing. And as much
Speaker 4: as I am transforming and evolving in my own ideology
Speaker 4: and theory, in this moment, I'm becoming, I'm beginning to
Speaker 4: recognize that racism is not the thing. It's not the
Speaker 4: only thing.
Speaker 2: It is a vehicle.
Speaker 4: It is a conduit for fascism to exist. It makes
Speaker 4: fascism much more easy to perpetuate. But you're gonna fighting
Speaker 4: all these things requires dismantling racism, and people still want
Speaker 4: to skip over it because it serves them in the
Speaker 4: in the short term and not everybody in the long run.
Speaker 1: I want to say really quick here and then be
Speaker 1: I'm gonna yeld to you because I know you have
Speaker 1: to have a heard out.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: I want us to be very clear about this, as
Speaker 1: black folks being far left on the political spectrum does
Speaker 1: not mean that you left racism behind. There are white
Speaker 1: liberals who double down in racism and have cover because
Speaker 1: of where they stand on the political spectrum. But if
Speaker 1: you have not left anti blackness behind to use what
Speaker 1: Kimberly Crenshaw told us to use, amen, then you are
Speaker 1: still part of the problem. Your politics will not save you.
Speaker 2: And so early.
Speaker 1: I mean, on our last show, you know, I was
Speaker 1: chucking the deuces to the Black Republicans who lost their
Speaker 1: primary racist thinking that they would be elevated because they
Speaker 1: would leave black people behind. But the more you try
Speaker 1: to leave us behind, I promise you you reap with you.
Speaker 1: So I promise you karma will visit you, and I
Speaker 1: promise there will be repercussions.
Speaker 2: There just will be, and I think that we have
Speaker 2: to be clear about that.
Speaker 1: As the postwordm goes for these primary campaigns, what you
Speaker 1: cannot do is sacrifice blackness and think that you will
Speaker 1: get ahead on our backs, on our votes, and on
Speaker 1: our people's times.
Speaker 3: That's why I give it. I give a big shout
Speaker 3: out to South Carolina. I give a big shout out
Speaker 3: to sec Tuesday that comes usually after South Carolina, the
Speaker 3: places like Clark County, Nevada. Because we have these candidates
Speaker 3: many times who run for president of the United States,
Speaker 3: who run to be standard bearer, and their progressive politics,
Speaker 3: albeit progressive, many times don't align with the politics of race.
Speaker 3: They want to have a separate conversation about economics, liberals.
Speaker 3: The progressive is fine because Bernie Sanders is a progressive
Speaker 3: and he who I'm talking to, right and just because,
Speaker 3: and you know, just because there are a lot of
Speaker 3: people who say, well, you know, he learned at the
Speaker 3: feet of Jesse. He didn't learn everything. And oftentimes there
Speaker 3: is this notion that there is a rising tide lifts
Speaker 3: all boats, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and
Speaker 3: you want to have this conversation about economics without having
Speaker 3: this conversation about the issue of race and not understanding
Speaker 3: those two things are so fundamentally intertwined. It drives me nuts.
Speaker 3: And so I will say this, and this is another
Speaker 3: person that we will be watching closely progressives who are
Speaker 3: running for president of the United States. I hope that
Speaker 3: you reach out to Lyney. I hope that you reach
Speaker 3: out to Elizabeth. I hope that you reach out to
Speaker 3: others like AOC. I just find her to be someone
Speaker 3: who's going to have to have this conversation in this
Speaker 3: battle as well when she runs for president of the
Speaker 3: United States. I just I'm not saying that she can't
Speaker 3: overcome it, she can't leap it. I think that Brian
Speaker 3: that shats Brian Shatz from Hawaii. I think that old
Speaker 3: boy from a Connecticut what's his name, Andrew Chris Murphy,
Speaker 3: Chris Murphy from Connecticut. I think a lot of these
Speaker 3: I like them too, but I think that a lot
Speaker 3: of these individuals need to spend some time before they
Speaker 3: get out there and the light shines upon them having
Speaker 3: these conversations about the way economics intersects with race.
Speaker 1: And they should not have the conversations for free. They
Speaker 1: should be paying consultants like they do it all in
Speaker 1: white boys.
Speaker 3: So you got you're not going to do work for
Speaker 3: some black foot.
Speaker 5: Of course, because you've said your last word, I'm messing
Speaker 5: with you.
Speaker 6: But you know the one thing I did want to say,
Speaker 6: because because we're not we're not not aware of how
Speaker 6: politics works, our conversation about Texas and the flow from
Speaker 6: that and our advice generously given to the nominee, don't
Speaker 6: disqualify our ability to take issue and.
Speaker 5: Consider it us not being on the train to want
Speaker 5: to be Republicans like we get we can we can
Speaker 5: hold these things together.
Speaker 3: I do not want a.
Speaker 5: Terrible Republican who's about to prop up Trump going back
Speaker 5: to Washington representing the state of Texas. At the same time,
Speaker 5: in our rush to move on and unify, we leave
Speaker 5: these really gaping deep swells an injury in our body
Speaker 5: that you just want us to wear. You want us
Speaker 5: to just persist through. And we can name it, we
Speaker 5: can claim it, we can call it out, we can
Speaker 5: say it and still be on the team to want
Speaker 5: to defeat fascism and racism in all its forms and
Speaker 5: how it shows up politically, so just for the folks,
Speaker 5: because I know it happens all the time we're trying
Speaker 5: to win. I don't know why y'all talking about We're
Speaker 5: going to talk about We're gonna talk about it because
Speaker 5: we can't be this.
Speaker 3: We can't.
Speaker 5: We cannot paper over this. The injuries are too deep
Speaker 5: sometimes and you're papering over it leads to the defeat anyway,
Speaker 5: So call it out, make recompense, and then we can
Speaker 5: move forward. But don't don't don't make me the front.
Speaker 5: I got to sacrifice, so I got to be on
Speaker 5: the suicide mission. So you can feel right that we
Speaker 5: got the right energy.
Speaker 4: There's something I want to call back to because and
Speaker 4: just trying to describe a situation, I think I missed
Speaker 4: out on a point that's been actually really sticking out
Speaker 4: to me as I'm doing a lot more writing up
Speaker 4: y'all working on the book, so are a lot more
Speaker 4: writing and just parsing out what this moment feels like
Speaker 4: truly and what I'm learning. But the massagyn War in particular,
Speaker 4: as I said, was the fact that there was this
Speaker 4: dog piling on jasmine for an issue people rightfully should
Speaker 4: take issue with the massage war in that James was
Speaker 4: not given the same treatment or the conversation was not
Speaker 4: about the two of them equally or even equitably. But
Speaker 4: even with this critique, I'm trying to be careful with
Speaker 4: my words because of the idea that I'm still developing,
Speaker 4: But I still think there's some truth to it that
Speaker 4: we need to harness, like early, especially as we come
Speaker 4: up on November elections. I feel like the sort of demand,
Speaker 4: the unwavering and unequivocal demand that we're making on moral
Speaker 4: compass and purity checking. I understand, for instance, I hear
Speaker 4: often I draw the line at genocide and there is
Speaker 4: no wiggle room around that, and I absolutely understand that
Speaker 4: anybody with a heart or any humanitarian, altruistic spirit would
Speaker 4: feel the same thing. I don't know that Americans have
Speaker 4: earned the right to move like that. I don't think
Speaker 4: Americans have created a government structure to be able to
Speaker 4: just knock people out of the game, because where are
Speaker 4: there was not another option besides James or Jasmine that
Speaker 4: Texas election for someone to choose in alignment with their
Speaker 4: ideas or ideology surrounding what's going on in Gaza. So
Speaker 4: I'm just wondering how we pull back on the hypocrisy.
Speaker 2: And actually move with.
Speaker 4: Strategy, and the strategy feels like a really impersonal world
Speaker 4: when we're talking about impersonal word, when we're talking about
Speaker 4: the extermination of a people. So I know conversations like
Speaker 4: this are not comfortable just saying we are the most
Speaker 4: of us, I want to say, you guys, but most
Speaker 4: of us, especially my generation, are just arriving to this
Speaker 4: amount of clarity in terms of how our government works,
Speaker 4: how we can engage in it, and how we can
Speaker 4: demand more out of the people that we elect. We're
Speaker 4: just getting here, and so I don't know that we
Speaker 4: have the options for what we're requiring.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense, I would say to you to
Speaker 1: linay like, it's a hell of a time to be
Speaker 1: coming to that conclusion, because the way in which we
Speaker 1: can petition our government is changing. We have someone that
Speaker 1: is seeking to become an authoritarian leader, and so those
Speaker 1: options are being foreclosed upon before our very eyes.
Speaker 2: You know, the Speaker of the House saying just days.
Speaker 1: Ago that Donald Trump shouldn't have to get congressional approval
Speaker 1: to go into Iran is something. It's notable. It's it major,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think the other piece around this
Speaker 1: is on top of a purity test. If you draw
Speaker 1: the line at genocide and neither candidate in the primary
Speaker 1: speak to speak strongly enough on the issue, then that
Speaker 1: means you're staying at home. And I think that that
Speaker 1: also is a point of hypocrisy, because you're not going
Speaker 1: to get closer to ending a genocide if you don't
Speaker 1: petition and participate in the government structure that we have,
Speaker 1: as flawed.
Speaker 2: As it is.
Speaker 1: I think the other thing that I would offer is
Speaker 1: do you draw the line at genocide if the people
Speaker 1: are with you on calling it a genocide, but they
Speaker 1: are willing to slaughter and harm and oppress your people
Speaker 1: at home. We've seen that too, and so I think
Speaker 1: that what we have to be honest about is just
Speaker 1: like we have to choose the ish will put up
Speaker 1: in our interpersonal relationships, we have to choose the ish
Speaker 1: will put up with with our politicians, because it.
Speaker 2: Is never that pure.
Speaker 1: There's a reason why when a bill is passed there
Speaker 1: are sections that go through revision. Upon revision, there is
Speaker 1: a committee markup where revisions and amendments are made. There's
Speaker 1: a floor process where amendments are made. It is because
Speaker 1: it is not black and white. It's nowhere near as
Speaker 1: black and white, certainly as the ya's and a's right
Speaker 1: to pass the measure. And at most what you can
Speaker 1: do when you want to find a gray areas vote
Speaker 1: president and you still get dragged by your constituents.
Speaker 2: But it is never that clear.
Speaker 5: And I think that we can also even when it's
Speaker 5: not that clear, Angela, it's as you know from CBC,
Speaker 5: sometimes it is this is what we could negotiate. At
Speaker 5: this moment, I haven't divorced myself from where we want
Speaker 5: to go.
Speaker 3: The north Star is there.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: And I think that ultimately what I would hope for
Speaker 1: young people is just like sometimes you have to negotiate
Speaker 1: your way to an A grade in school, or you
Speaker 1: have to negotiate your way to higher pay at work,
Speaker 1: or you have to negotiate your way to raising money
Speaker 1: for the business that you're starting. It is not always
Speaker 1: that black and white. I wish it was, it would
Speaker 1: be so much easier, But this, I mean, this is,
Speaker 1: you know, incredibly hard. When we were talking about people
Speaker 1: bloodshed and live.
Speaker 5: I know we have to wrap y'all. I do, but
Speaker 5: I just want to offer contrary opinion, which is I
Speaker 5: actually think we need the people who are zero su
Speaker 5: in some ways about their vision and what they want
Speaker 5: to see realized, because I agree with that too. Those
Speaker 5: are some of the folks who have moved, the folks
Speaker 5: who just want to be safe enough inside the position
Speaker 5: to not be dragged over. And a lot of us
Speaker 5: need to be dragged over, absolutely, a lot of us
Speaker 5: need to be to expand our territory.
Speaker 1: Gaven just got dragged over. It's an apartheid state. Israel's
Speaker 1: an apartheid state.
Speaker 3: I ain't never again.
Speaker 5: It is the pressure points, there are the pressure points.
Speaker 5: But but also in our movements we do need the
Speaker 5: strategists who understand that there are some there are some gifts,
Speaker 5: take shifts, there are some things that have to happen,
Speaker 5: and that's why you have folks who who serve at
Speaker 5: different places. But I just, if I'm being honest about
Speaker 5: my life in public service, that on some occasions I
Speaker 5: needed the net to be cast a little further than
Speaker 5: I was prepared to cast it. Absolutely, and by that
Speaker 5: being cast further, not only did you create the space
Speaker 5: for me to have to negotiate that I'm not far enough.
Speaker 5: I'm not close enough to where my people are on this,
Speaker 5: and you're too far away from them, and we can't
Speaker 5: win that way. You need to get closer to me
Speaker 5: as I move closer to them. And so they've now,
Speaker 5: because of their demands, have renegotiated the table. They've allowed
Speaker 5: for different negotiation to take place.
Speaker 2: So I'm so that doesn't differ from what I was saying.
Speaker 1: I think that what you're describing, Andrew is an inside
Speaker 1: and outside game. And what I'm trying to get at
Speaker 1: is the fact that what I'm seeing as I'm watching
Speaker 1: younger people get mature, is a disdain for the inside game.
Speaker 1: Right It's like everybody need to be outside and that's
Speaker 1: just not how it has worked. It doesn't mean that's
Speaker 1: not how it should work or how it's gonna work,
Speaker 1: but it is.
Speaker 2: It's not. That's not how it works right now.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm for supportive if we want to dream together
Speaker 5: about the system that.
Speaker 2: We deserve a unique opportunity to figure.
Speaker 5: Out, and when we do that, we can't we cannot
Speaker 5: unilaterally disarmed from the system we are working within.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 5: That's the only thing. Let's build build a boat, But
Speaker 5: we got to row.
Speaker 2: To Yes, we don't want up to row sign up
Speaker 2: to build a sign up.
Speaker 5: Something this has been, there's been something, y'all. I hope
Speaker 5: our listeners enjoy. We have gone on at an extended period.
Speaker 5: But but you heard flea floring thought here and I
Speaker 5: think really genuine, authentic discourse.
Speaker 1: And you're such a I'm so glad you joined us. Brilliant, badass,
Speaker 1: smart witty, just fantastic.
Speaker 2: Congratulations you guys.
Speaker 1: But yes, thank you, like if it was such a
Speaker 1: joy at home, and you're welcome back anytime.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Thank you, guys. It's been lovely.
Speaker 5: See y'all.
Speaker 3: Deuces.
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