1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. The Ghost Army came up briefly in 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: our recent episode on Joan Current, so it seemed like 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: exactly the right time to put out that episode again. 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: This one originally came out almost exactly five years ago 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: on January, So enjoy. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: History Class, a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Collie Frying and I'm 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: Tracy by Wilson. And today we're gonna talk a little 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: bit about military history, and it's World War two specifically, 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: and even though this particular piece, uh that we're discussing 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: is in fact military history, if there were a history 12 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: of ingenuity or sleight of hand, I think this would 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: probably be one of the big events on that timeline. Uh. 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: So we're gonna be talking about the US Ghost Army, 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: which was a top secret group that was assembled to 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: create confused and mislead access forces. And it's a really 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: amazing story that stars Ingenuity and Bravado as sort of 18 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: the the main elements of the piece. And the idea 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: of military deception was of course not new to World 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: War Two. Everyone has heard of like the Trojan Horse, 21 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: for example, and deceit as a tactic as part of 22 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: sun sus art of war. Almost any culture in history 23 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: that found itself at war with another culture use some 24 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: type of trickery to try to outsmart the enemy, because 25 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: that's sort of a vital part of getting the upper 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: hand in a conflict is misleading so that you can 27 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: kind of swoop in with your forces. But this group 28 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: really went to some pretty extraordinary measures to achieve their goals, 29 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: and they did some really fascinating and cool things, uh 30 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: and so, and it was classified for a long time 31 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: and then kind of came to light. So we are 32 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: going to talk about it today because it is really cool. 33 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: So to start out at the beginning like we normally do. 34 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: That's one third. Headquarters Special Troops was the one and 35 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: only deception outfit that US Army had ever authorized. The 36 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: goal was to corral a group of creative thinkers to 37 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: approach warfare in new ways, and this sort of trickery 38 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: focused effort was inspired by the success of Operation Bertram, 39 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: in which Allied forces used dummy tanks and camouflage to 40 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: trick Rommel's forces into an incorrect assessment of the Allies 41 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: position and strength during the second Battle of l A 42 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: l Amain in North Africa. And also bolstering this case 43 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: for a deception unit was the u S success in 44 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: misleading German intelligence leading up to the Battle of Tunisia. 45 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: They realized deception was working and they thought, let's just 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: have a unit that's focused on this. The idea of 47 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: forming a unit dedicated just to this is attributed to 48 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: Captain Ralph Ingersoll. Before the war, he had been a 49 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: celebrity journalist and he had been working with Great Britain 50 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: on deception techniques to mislead the Germans and the time 51 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: leading up the D Day. On Christmas Eve of three, 52 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: a memo to the Assistant Chief of Staff for Operations 53 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: War Department in Washington, d C officially requested the creation 54 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: of a unit with a mission quote to simulate a 55 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: core of two infantry divisions and one armored divisions and 56 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: core installations railhead dumps, etcetera. So, beginning in nine more 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: than one thousand young men were recruited, and they were 58 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: often recent art school graduates or ad agency creatives and 59 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: they were handpicked for this assignment. Recruits were sent to 60 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: Camp Forest in Tullahoma, Tennessee to train within there were 61 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: several companies. For the two four Signal Company worked on 62 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: radio counter intelligence. Second Signal Service Company, which was actually 63 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: trained at Pine Camp, New York, worked to develop sonic 64 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: deception techniques. The four oh six Engineer Combat Company worked 65 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: on the big construction projects and was in charge of security. 66 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: And often you'll hear this effortmen anctioned, like when people say, oh, 67 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: the Ghost Army they used inflatable tanks to deceive the Germans, 68 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: And that is partially true, but as we mentioned in 69 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: breaking down these different companies within the twenty three, it 70 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: was a whole lot more than that. Yeah, I feel 71 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: like the tanks get the big, like kind of bud 72 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,559 Speaker 1: speedy headlines all the time, which is understandable. There's really 73 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: cool video that exists, like where you can see them 74 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: rolling over these inflated tanks and there. I don't know 75 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: that I have ever heard any of the audio recordings, 76 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: and I don't think I've ever seen anyone reference them online. 77 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: So you can see where the tanks get all the attention. 78 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: But I was not all there was. For instance, audio 79 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: work sometimes referred to as sonic deception, was a huge 80 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: piece of the Ghost Army puzzle. Yeah, they would mount 81 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: these huge speakers to project elaborate soundscapes and radio plays 82 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: that were created by the Second Signal Service Company. And 83 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: these men had recorded tanks and trucks and our tillery units, 84 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: and they sound engineered them into a number of different soundtracks. 85 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: And these recordings would include sounds of tanks on the 86 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: move or military construction, and they would even have things 87 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: like vehicle sputtering. And they basically amassed this really amazing 88 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: sound catalog of basically every military vehicle that they had 89 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: access to, doing everything those machines could do, so they 90 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: could kind of piece them together and create unique and 91 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: specific radio dramas. Basically, so if you wanted to broadcast 92 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: a battalion of vehicles starting up in the distance and 93 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: moving closer, they could create that with their vast library 94 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: of recordings, complete with idiosyncratic engine noises for specific vehicles 95 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: and kind of mimic that distance too slowly moving forward 96 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: nearness that you would hear if you were in one 97 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: position with an actual troop going by. I like to 98 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: imagine this as an extremely high tech version of following 99 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: King Arthur around banging coconuts together. But it was very 100 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: high tech even for the time. I mean, they were 101 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: really kind of on the advanced edge of technology and 102 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: how they were using sound. Yeah. Well, and it's like 103 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: these that kind of sound work happens in movies and 104 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: TV and things like that all the time now, like 105 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's just sort of how it works. So 106 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: this was a different use for that. In addition to 107 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: the three companies created with new recruits, another company was 108 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: looped into their headquarters Special Troops, and that was the 109 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: sixth oh third Engineer Camouflage Battalion. The men of the 110 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: six h third had been working on camouflage for a 111 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: couple of years already, so they brought their expertise to 112 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: a group already in a fairly polished state. They had 113 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: already managed an impressive accomplishment that by disguising the plant 114 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 1: in Baltimore where by six bombers were assembled, and the 115 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: event that access forces wished to look for the plant, 116 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: what they would see when they flew over was just 117 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: a regular rural area. And before we get to how 118 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: the twenty third trained and then made their way to Europe, Uh, 119 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: do you want to pause for a moment for a 120 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: word from a sponsor? Yes, I do so. During the 121 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,679 Speaker 1: spring of n The men of the twenty three were training, 122 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: but they were training in skills that seemed in many 123 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: ways more appropriate for a touring theater company than for 124 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: a group of soldiers. So they built prototype prop vehicles 125 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: burst out of wood and burlap and then out of rubber. 126 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: The rubber versions looked incredibly realistic, but they weighed less 127 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: than a hundred pounds apiece. The men would also train 128 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: with dummy artillery and other prop equipment. They practice sending 129 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: each other fake radio messages, and they learned just enough 130 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,679 Speaker 1: about other different outfits that they could impersonate them, either 131 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: as individuals or as a group, and men who couldn't 132 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: so had to learn because they were going to have 133 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: to quickly alter their uniforms and switch out patches as 134 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: they sort of performed these presto changeo masquerades. In May, 135 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: the majority of the twenty three boarded the U S. S. 136 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: Henry Gibbons in New York, bound for Great Britain. They 137 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: spent about a month near Stratford on Avon while they trained, 138 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: although by all accounts there was also quite a bit 139 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: of partying. Yeah, this sounds like really a lovely time 140 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: that they had while they were in Britain. UH. But 141 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: the first wave of men from the twenty third shipped 142 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: out to France just following D Day, and this was 143 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: a small platoon. It was just fifteen men and they 144 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: landed at oma Omaha Beach on June fourteenth, so just 145 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: out a week a little more UH and nurses actually 146 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: flew with them so that they could tend to the 147 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: wounded that we're waiting there on the beach. Going from 148 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: a month in the idyllic British countryside having what was 149 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: kind of a party esque atmosphere into the reality of 150 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: war in France was of course something of a shock. 151 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: Knowing that they were there to draw fires. Some of 152 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: the men thought that there was really a suicide outfit. Yeah. 153 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: They they had been trained in different sort of arts 154 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: and UH deceptions, but not so much in actual combat, 155 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: so they really did. Some of them really did think 156 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: at that point like, oh, they're just sending us there 157 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: to die and take the heat off the real soldiers. 158 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: But over the course of the next two months, the 159 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: rest of the twenty three joined their fellows in France. 160 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: Leading up to their first big mission, which was Operation Elephant. 161 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: About half of the men in the unit were involved 162 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: in Operation Elephant, during which they pretended to be the 163 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: Army's Second Armored Division. The real Second Armored Division was 164 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: on the move while the twenty three kept up the appearances. Yeah, 165 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: and that's sort of a theme of their their missions throughout. 166 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: And while this sham did indeed work, nearby German troops 167 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 1: held their position rather than following the real Second Armored 168 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: Division because they did believe they were still there. This 169 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: was also a pretty big learning experience. During this particular operation, 170 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: it was revealed that if the inflatable tanks that they 171 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: used lost even a small amount of air, the cannons 172 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: would droop and give the whole thing away. They really 173 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: there are some paintings that you can find online and 174 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: in documentaries where you see sort of this droopy cannon barrel, 175 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: and it really does look comical. It's an inherently comical image. Yeah, 176 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: Their tanks are not made to fire into the ground, 177 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: and so it looked very, very silly. And while they 178 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: were not discovering their theatrics during Operation Elephant, it also 179 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: became apparent that setting up an entire false division was 180 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: going to be better executed in the dark of night. 181 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: They had not waited until really late. They used some 182 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: daylight hours to do it, and they also realized that 183 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: they really needed to like tighten up their disguise and 184 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: camouflage game if they wanted to ensure future success. The 185 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: entire twenty three was then tasked with Operation Breast, which 186 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: was named for the nearby French ports city that was 187 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: an odd ues. The Sonic unit was the last to 188 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: arrive in France, so Breast was the first time that 189 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: they three had their full arsenal of tricks at their disposal, 190 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: and the goal was to create the impression of an 191 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: existing tank unit having far greater power than it actually did, 192 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: with the hopes that they would trick the Germans into 193 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: a surrender, and so they used a mix of actual 194 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: tanks and dummies, flash canisters too, sort of fake tanks firing, 195 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: and sound mixing to create this really convincing illusion of 196 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: a huge tank division. And the main bravado move of 197 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: this mission came in the delivery of some of these 198 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: soundscapes that they had mixed. So late at night, members 199 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: of the three would actually sort of creep forward with 200 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: their sound equipment. They would get within about five hundred 201 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: yards on the enemy line and they would play sounds 202 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: of what sounded like officers issuing orders and people yelling 203 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: counter order, and even like fake situations of arguments where 204 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: there would be accidents that were staged and there would 205 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: be cursing at these imaginary errors. They were all doing 206 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: this really pretty close to enemy lines. It was pretty 207 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: to think about what that must have been like, sitting 208 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: there in the dark with your speaker playing these things, 209 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,719 Speaker 1: knowing how very close you were. It's so bring to 210 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: think about. It was effective, so effective that it confused 211 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: friendly units positioned about a mile away, and while it 212 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: didn't get the Germans under General Herman B. Von Ramkat 213 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: to turn tail, it did keep them from going anywhere. 214 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: This was a good thing, since that was an estimated 215 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: thirty eight thousand troops, and that was almost double what 216 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: the Allies had initially estimated. If they had not been 217 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: tricked into holding their line against this perceived threat from 218 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: this puffed up, half fake tank battalion, they might have 219 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: gone on the offensive and then really damaged the Allied forces. 220 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: And throughout the rest of ninety four and on into nine, 221 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: the twenty three continued to run these military masquerade games, 222 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: and with every mission they would kind of regroup and 223 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: refine their playbook and see what had worked and what 224 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: had and they just got better and better and better. 225 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: They learned how to stage and set dress their fake 226 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: camps more and more authentically, and they started hand painting 227 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: patches to mimic those of existing units, so they if 228 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: they couldn't get ahold of real ones, then they would 229 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: stage fake headquarters to give out fake promotions so low 230 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: ranking men would look like generals and other officers, creating 231 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: the full illusion of real operations. And then late at 232 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: night they would you know, go where they were called 233 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: and inflate their fox vehicles and artillery undercover of darkness, 234 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: so that when dawn came, it would appear as though 235 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: a huge surge of troops had arrived in the area. 236 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: And in addition to providing this false image of battle 237 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: ready army troops where there was really only a line 238 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: of fake vehicles and prerecorded noise, the twenty Third's ability 239 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: to seem to appear out of thin air and vanish 240 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: just as quickly actually had a really unnerving effect on 241 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: the enemy, so the German Army started calling them the 242 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: phantom Army. Other tricks included the ongoing burning of fires 243 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: at camps that were deserted, and different ways to create 244 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: fake tank tracks. In addition to the inflatable tanks and trucks, 245 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: they also used dummy planes and buildings. They could mix 246 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: fake radio transmissions within with the real ones to confuse 247 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: the enemy, and they mounted fake parachute drops and put 248 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: up signs directing Allied vehicles that were never actually coming. 249 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: But this elaborate spectacle also included a whole lot of 250 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: acting on the part of the troops. So knowing that 251 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,359 Speaker 1: any US troops were always being watched by German soldiers 252 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: or spies, or sometimes there were French people working for 253 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: the Germans as informants, the boys of the would really 254 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: employ all manner of ruses. They would change out their 255 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: unit insignias as we mentioned, on uniforms as well as 256 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: on vehicles. They would do quick stencil work to change 257 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: everything up, and they would make sure that they were 258 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: seen about town wherever they were kind of drinking and 259 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: hanging out. And if they were asked what unit they 260 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: were a part of, they would just make up names 261 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: or reference a unit that they were covering for. And 262 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: some of them even would uh sort of mount these 263 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: these fake little tableau where they would feign drunkenness and 264 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: blab false information in public places. So this sort of 265 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: became this ongoing game of misinformation and subterfuge where they 266 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: were just sort of always acting. This wasn't completely flawless, 267 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: though sometimes there were mistakes and problems. On occasion, a 268 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: dummy tank would be inflated facing the wrong direction. Because 269 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: all of these set up parts are being done at night, 270 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: it was easy enough to lift one and turn it around, 271 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: but if it was already daylight when they realized the problem, 272 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: they were going to have to do it with really 273 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: careful timings so as not to be noticed. That one point, 274 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: several vehicles that had been inflated in the night were 275 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: warmed so much the sun came up that the air 276 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: expanding inside them caused them to pop loudly as they 277 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: sprang leaks. And while while this sort of sounds hilarious, 278 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: it was happening during a war. So all of these 279 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: accidents put the men involved at serious risk. And all 280 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: in all, there were twenty one missions mounted by the 281 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: twenty three And before we get to sort of the 282 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: biggest one that they undertook, uh, do you want to 283 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: do a quick word from a sponsor, let's do so. 284 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: The biggest in what is arguably the most successful of 285 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: the twenty third missions was Operation Veerson, and this took 286 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: place near the war's end, relatively speaking, it wasn't right 287 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: at the end, but it was in March, and this 288 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: basically launched a big visible decoy mission to once again 289 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: cover the movements of other troops. While parts of the 290 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: Ninth Army were moving north to quietly cross the Rhine, 291 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: the twenty three was making a big show of pretending 292 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: to be those troops farther south. They masqueraded as the 293 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: ninth and ran practice and training maneuvers for a crossing 294 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: at person and just publicly enough to draw lots of attention. 295 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: And this was really a massive effort. So they set 296 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: up fake medical and engineering facilities. They had trucks and 297 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: sonic crews creating the illusion of convoys moving supplies. At 298 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: one point they were just having trucks loaded up where 299 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 1: they would be driving them back and forth, and they 300 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: would put two guys at the very back, so it 301 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: looked like it was full of troops, but in fact 302 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: there are only two guys at the back. They arranged 303 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: everything perfectly so that an aerial reconnaissance taking pictures would 304 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: have no idea that the entire thing was a hoax. 305 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: They one of the reasons that they used artists was 306 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: so they could conceptually visualize, like how things would look 307 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: from multiple angles, even when they didn't have those angles 308 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: available to them, So they really made this whole thing 309 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: beautifully realistic, even though it was in fact all a hoax. 310 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: When the real Ninth crossed the rhyme, the Germans were 311 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: taken totally by surprise. Those German troops that could resist 312 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: them were disorganized and unprepared, so US casualties were very few. 313 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: The twenty three received a commendation from the Ninth Army 314 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,479 Speaker 1: Commander William Simpson for their effort. A later estimate by 315 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: Simpson placed the number of troops that were saved by 316 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: this deception at ten thousand UH and it ended up 317 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: being the last mission of the war, and in September 318 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: there was completely shut down. So one of the inherent 319 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: dangers of being in a ghost army designed to draw 320 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: attention is that it also draws fire. So it's easy 321 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: to think of all this pageantry and strategic slide of 322 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: hand is really fun and fascinating, but it really put 323 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: the men involved at great risk. At one point they 324 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: were actually set up in beastone and they actually missed 325 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: the start of the Battle of the Bulge by about 326 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: four hours. They had been pulled out around midnight of 327 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: December six, and this is as P and the fighting 328 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: started around four am. So had those men been trapped 329 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: there with their phony equipment, they would have been in 330 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: incredibly dire straits and unable to defend themselves. During the 331 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: Battle of the Bulge. The three returned to Luxembourg City, 332 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: where they had already spent a lot of time, and 333 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: fired from the rooftops at the incoming Liftwoffe aircraft. This 334 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: is the only time they ever really four real fired 335 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: at the enemy. Yeah, it was there one there one 336 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: time that they actually got to perform actual combat activities. Uh. 337 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: And the twenty three after that was very quickly moved 338 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: to Verdunn. So, in part, the Allies wanted to maintain 339 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: the secrecy of the Ghost Army, and in another part 340 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: they realized that this blow up dummy artillery was not 341 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: going to be you good in a fight, so they 342 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: just wanted to clear them out. And the men ended 343 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: up spending Christmas in Verdune. While the group had been 344 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: extraordinarily lucky throughout their time, their luck finally ran out 345 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: in the spring of nine. On March twelfth, while impersonating 346 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: the eightieth Infantry, the twenty three drew German artillery fire. 347 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: Two of their men were killed in fifteen others were wounded. 348 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: This was really their worst day, in spite of having 349 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: been an incredibly dangerous areas many times as they kept 350 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: up false appearances all through the war. And one of 351 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: the problems that comes up when discussing the twenty three 352 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: and their effectiveness and sort of assessing what they were 353 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: able to achieve lies in the fact that so much 354 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: of their work was secret, and often it fooled Allied 355 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: forces as well as the enemy. Like the Allied forces 356 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: didn't even really know what was going on with them 357 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the time, they thought they were just 358 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: another unit. After the war, most of the men stayed 359 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: quiet about the amaze sing works of deceptive are that 360 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: they had been part of. The work was classified, so 361 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: in the event that the US found itself at war again, 362 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: having a ghost army would be a really valuable asset, 363 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: So the military didn't want to tip its hand and 364 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: reveal this resource. But finally, in x SO, almost nineteen 365 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: years ago from when we're recording this, the work of 366 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: the twenty three was declassified, and the men who had 367 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: only been able to give KG answers to their families 368 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: about what they had done in the war were now 369 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: free to speak of their incredible efforts. One of the 370 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: truly significant aspects of the twenty three and the work 371 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: that they did is the fact that an entire division 372 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: of creative people was successfully managed within the structure of 373 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: the military. Yeah. This is one of those things that 374 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: people often go like, look, these were all artists and 375 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: they totally were able to work together in this this effort. 376 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: And I don't know if that speaks to like their 377 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: level of commitment or independence. You know, It's one of 378 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,959 Speaker 1: those things that often likes to get bandied about, particularly 379 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: when you're talking about modern business, like, oh, it's hard 380 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: to manage creative people. It's like these guys managed and 381 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: they were doing some scary stuff. Yeah. I think it 382 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: also speaks to the like perpetual mythologizing of creative work 383 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: as some kind of extraordinary thing when in a lot 384 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: of cases it is work. Yeah, which isn't to say that, like, 385 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: creative inspiration isn't really fabulous and cool and unique in 386 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: many ways. But I just I find that to be 387 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: a really interesting one that we do mythologize working with 388 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: creative types. And I say this as a creative person 389 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: married to an artist as well, Like, but then it 390 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: can be anybody can be managed, any sort of effort 391 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: that can be put together. It's it's all about, you know, 392 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: using people's assets. And another really incredible legacy is the 393 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: artwork that a lot of these men were doing while 394 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: they were deployed. I'll talk a little bit more about 395 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: that in a minute. Yeah, it's really no surprise that 396 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the men who were involved in effectively 397 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: doing art for the army went on to careers the arts. 398 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: So for example, Bill Blast of course went on spuilt 399 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: a fashion empire. He had actually been sketching women's clothing 400 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: during the war. Yeah, there was one interview that I 401 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: saw with one of the other members of the twenty 402 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: third and he was saying, and I don't know if 403 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: he was serious or not, that Bill Blast would read 404 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: Vote magazine in foxholes, but I have no idea, but 405 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: I loved it. Art Kane, of course became a very 406 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: well known photographer. His photo entitled A Great Day in Harlem, 407 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: which was taken in Night, featured fifty seven prominent jazz 408 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: musicians and it's still considered one of the most important 409 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: images of jazz history. And he also took a lot 410 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: of incredible celebrity portraits, and he was the photographer for 411 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: the one and only DeLorean magazine ad to ever run. 412 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: Ellsworth Kelly made a career as a painter and a 413 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: sculptor and became known for use of really bright color 414 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: and very hard edges. Arthur Singer became an illustrator and 415 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: he really became known for his incredibly detailed bird illustrations. 416 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: So if you have ever looked at an illustrated birding 417 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: field guide, uh, odds are really good that you've seen 418 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: as work, because it's been in everything. Jack Macy went 419 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: on to design backdrops for the State Department. Eventually he 420 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,959 Speaker 1: designed the kitchen set that was used for the Nixon 421 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: Cruise Chef debate of nineteen fifty nine. And there's a 422 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: really wonderful documentary called The Ghost Army that I highly 423 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: recommend for people that UH want to hear accounts from 424 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: some of the surviving members of the twenty three. And 425 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I really loved it too is that, 426 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: uh it being a visual medium, they're able to show 427 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the artwork that these men were doing 428 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: while they were in France and in performing all these 429 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: amazing maneuvers. And one of the men says something like, 430 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: you know, we were in all these crazy circumstances, but 431 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: we could always find time or a place to duck 432 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: away and do a quick watercolor, which I think it's 433 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: just super termining, like they just were all artists at heart, 434 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: even though they were part of this amazing war effort. 435 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: And that documentary is as of this recording in early 436 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: is available on Netflix, and it's a little longer than 437 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: an hour, uh and you get to see a lot 438 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: of this really amazing art and just interviews with these guys, 439 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: and it deals a little bit more with with them 440 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: as individuals rather than like what we've covered is so 441 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: much of sort of the bigger, kind of broad strokes 442 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: of the whole unit, but this really focuses on some 443 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: of the different men and has interviews with them that 444 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: are really quite charming and touching and really really entertaining. 445 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: Uh So I highly recommend that and that is the 446 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: Ghost Army, which is just such a The whole thing 447 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: is so cool, and I'm surprised even though it does 448 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: pop up sometimes in like uh, you know, listic goals online, Uh, 449 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: people don't really know about it. Like it's another one 450 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: of those things where I thought, Oh, everyone's heard about this, 451 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: We've had a few requests for it. But then when 452 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: I mentioned it to people, they look at me like, 453 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. And then when 454 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: I say a few things, they get sort of this, 455 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: like agog really what. So clearly this is there's there's 456 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: some gap in their uh, in the knowledge about these guys, 457 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: and it's they did such amazing things that I think 458 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: everybody should know what their work was like. Thank you 459 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today for this Saturday classic. 460 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: If you have heard any kind of email address or 461 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: maybe a Facebook you are l during the course of 462 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: the episode, that might be obsolete. It might be doubly 463 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: obsolete because we have changed our email address again. You 464 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: can now reach us at History Podcasts at I heart 465 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: radio dot com, and we're all over social media at 466 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: missed in History, and you can subscribe to our show 467 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, Google podcasts, the i heart Radio app, 468 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Stuff you Missed 469 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of I heart Radio's 470 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 471 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 472 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.